approval required for all classifieds posting?

[digi]

Is this new? 2nd time I've posted something in the classifieds and it said "This post requires Mod approval" or something..Pretty sure I'm following the rules in my posts, just didn't know if this was a global change or something only on my account? Thanks in advance for all your help.

[sth]

i got one today too. they dont give us no respect.

[SpAmRaY]

I can't find the reference I was looking for but this has been going on for a week or so, I believe it is the new policy.

[Photekq]

That blows.

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

Good. That's how it should be.

Trust nobody.

[IPT]

well maybe this way they'll actually be enforcing their rules instead of having some people exempted from the rules.
(not that im saying the rules should apply, just if they're gonna make a big deal about them, then they should enforce them)

[strict]

Sounds like micro-management hell. I just hope it doesn't deter some people from listing items for sale.

[jdcarpe]

Sounds like micro-management hell. I just hope it doesn't deter some people from listing items for sale.

That's why they are accepting applications for new moderators. There will probably be some mods whose primary job is to approve classifieds postings, or let the poster know how to fix it before it can be approved.

[Tarzan]

I can't find the reference I was looking for but this has been going on for a week or so, I believe it is the new policy.

Another new policy?  Pardon the implied carping, but were there actually so many issues with the Classifieds section that have prompted all the recent rules?

I've bought stuff from GH sellers ever since I joined up, and I can't recall a single transaction that was even slightly dodgy.  If anything, because we were both forum members, most sellers went out of their way to alert me to potential issues before the sale closed, to make sure we both walked away happy.

But then again, I've never participated in the feeding frenzy that always seems to erupt around clacks, or whatever other collectible du jour is up for auction/raffle/giveaway/random trolling event. 

[IPT]

I can't find the reference I was looking for but this has been going on for a week or so, I believe it is the new policy.

Another new policy?  Pardon the implied carping, but were there actually so many issues with the Classifieds section that have prompted all the recent rules?

I've bought stuff from GH sellers ever since I joined up, and I can't recall a single transaction that was even slightly dodgy.  If anything, because we were both forum members, most sellers went out of their way to alert me to potential issues before the sale closed, to make sure we both walked away happy.

But then again, I've never participated in the feeding frenzy that always seems to erupt around clacks, or whatever other collectible du jour is up for auction/raffle/giveaway/random trolling event. 

profit = bad
many jimmies rustled.

[Tarzan]

profit = bad
many jimmies rustled.

I guess that's possible.  Since it's such a small community, I would expect people would know how much something cost the seller, and buy accordingly.  If I know a keyboard sold originally for $120, I'd expect to buy it used for $80-$100, depending on condition (and rarity, switch type, mods, etc.).

Well, it appears there have been quite a few changes while I've been absent, none of which have motivated me to reconsider getting out the hobby.  It's been fun, and it's been real...

[hashbaz]

This is a practical measure that helps us enforce the new requirements.  PMing sellers after the fact, waiting for compliance, making judgment calls on hiding the thread or not, is all a lot more work than just not allowing the post to go through if it doesn't meet the requirements in the first place.

[SpAmRaY]

Perhaps I should say, this will encourage people to re-use their sell threads. 

[hashbaz]

The turnaround should be pretty quick, assuming your OP meets the new requirements.  If your thread languishes in unapproval feel free to kick us in the pants.

[mkawa]

if you have a long running thread that does not obey the rules at any point, the parts of your thread that do not obey the rules will just be wiped.

if you post a new thread, you will get a clear notice of what, if anything, needs to be changed andthe thread will enter the forum at top of forum.

further, with people truly required to consider their ads carefully, there will be less meaningless churn in the forum, which will allow people to bump less and generally give them the ability to focus on the community sections of the forum rather than watchi thr classifieds like a hawk

[Tarzan]

<snip>
further, with people truly required to consider their ads carefully, there will be less meaningless churn in the forum, which will allow people to bump less and generally give them the ability to focus on the community sections of the forum rather than watchi thr classifieds like a hawk

Mkawa, I love you like a brother, but I think you're off-base here.  I recently posted a sale thread, which I modify about once a day, usually when something sells.  I have posted a few times to bump it back to the first page of the Classifieds, because modifying the listing to add more stuff doesn't actually move it up in the queue.  If people were actually engaging in "meaningless churn," then I'd never bump it, they'd do that for me.

And the only reason I've been active on other threads/forums is because I've actually got an active sales thread.  Once the keyboards and associated stuff are all gone, so am I*. 

You seem to be arguing that the new rules make it easier to manage sales threads, so people don't have to actively manage them as much, and can be active on other forums.  I can attest from personal experience that I've spent far more time fixing and adjusting my sales thread to stay in compliance with the new rules than ever before.  And when I'm done, that's usually burned me out to the point that I just log off.  I should just edit my sales thread to let people know to PM me, as I've missed several posts on my thread, only seeing them when I was online to edit the thread again.

And the real irony is that I'm trying to give back to the community instead of just flogging all the accumulated desiderata on fleabay.  It's not like I'm making a profit from all this, I'm just giving the community dibs on stuff at a fixed price, and throwing in a little something extra to pay back the generosity I've received. 

Just pointing out that if the mods are trying to curtail the Classifieds to the point where most people won't bother listing their used gear, you're well on the way.

[*This is going to take more time than I estimated, since several pending group buys I'm waiting to complete have run into Paypal issues.]

[mkawa]

hmmm.. thanks stoke for your clear, reasoned criticism, lots of good points. mod team will definitely consider this post as it continues to deliberate on how to handle classifieds moderation

[metalliqaz]

I still don't know what was so bad before that required the clamp-down.
More regulation ==  less freedom == fewer users == everyone loses.

[Photoelectric]

The Rules are hardly demanding.  You can have a very minimal post that satisfies all the requirements quite easily.  And yet there are still a lot of people who don't bother reading the rules or following all of them.  That is the reason for the approval.  In the future, we hope that there will be another option to manage all current threads: new AND revised.

[Tarzan]

The Rules are hardly demanding.  You can have a very minimal post that satisfies all the requirements quite easily.  And yet there are still a lot of people who don't bother reading the rules or following all of them.  That is the reason for the approval.  In the future, we hope that there will be another option to manage all current threads: new AND revised.

It's possible that's just my perspective, encountering the new rules for the first time.  Previously, when I'd sold items on GH, there were no formalized rules.

As someone who manages projects for a living, I think the mods have set themselves up with an approval process that can only lead to negative reinforcement.  After all, the fewer sales threads there are, the less work for moderators, right?

Well, enough from me.  Thanks for letting me post here.

[strict]

Perhaps I should say, this will encourage people to re-use their sell threads. 

IMO, this is a big negative. Chances are I'm not going to view a post titled "strict's WTB\WTS thread" but if I see something in the title I'm interested in, like "WTS Acrylic ErgoDox case", I'm much more likely to open it. I dont have any interest in reading down over some random persons list of weird **** they want to buy/sell on the remote chance there's something I want.

[mkawa]

I still don't know what was so bad before that required the clamp-down.
More regulation ==  less freedom == fewer users == everyone loses.

fortunately or unfortunately (look up 'success disaster'), too few users is _definitely not_ a problem that we have or will have anywhere in the near future.

[Cottonsox]

Perhaps I should say, this will encourage people to re-use their sell threads. 

IMO, this is a big negative. Chances are I'm not going to view a post titled "strict's WTB\WTS thread" but if I see something in the title I'm interested in, like "WTS Acrylic ErgoDox case", I'm much more likely to open it. I dont have any interest in reading down over some random persons list of weird **** they want to buy/sell on the remote chance there's something I want.

You can change the title of your thread and bump it (within the rules 24hours etc). I don't see the post title as a reason not to use the one thread for your wtb/wts.

[kenmai9]

Doesn't this allow mods to see all of the possible 'deals' ahead of everyone else, giving them the advantage in trying to snag it? Or are moderators not going to be buying anything anymore?

[SpAmRaY]

Doesn't this allow mods to see all of the possible 'deals' ahead of everyone else, giving them the advantage in trying to snag it? Or are moderators not going to be buying anything anymore?

Why you think we all applied to be mods bro.

Perhaps I should say, this will encourage people to re-use their sell threads. 

IMO, this is a big negative. Chances are I'm not going to view a post titled "strict's WTB\WTS thread" but if I see something in the title I'm interested in, like "WTS Acrylic ErgoDox case", I'm much more likely to open it. I dont have any interest in reading down over some random persons list of weird **** they want to buy/sell on the remote chance there's something I want.

People are supposed to keep their titles relevant to what they are selling. And you can have a WTS thread and also a WTB thread so those two things don't clash.

[digi]

Geekhack is supposed to be fun. Overtime, more and more rules change that. I have to believe that there are more people losing money from GB's gone bad (in the past) and "Vendor's" going MIA than some scammer in the Classifieds. People have to use a little common sense when buying anything online, it could happen on eBay, etc.

1) 60 posts minimum requirement to post in classy's
2) pictures with names required now (I'm cool with)
3) And now, post gets reviewed by mods before releasing?

I very much appreciate all the members here, mod's included. But let's take a step back and ask what this is really doing and how it will help the community. Please don't let a few fart bags ruin it for everyone else.

GH's policy has been that Moderator's & GH will not get involved in the Classifieds transactions, etc. Why take on that burden now?

[SpAmRaY]

Geekhack is supposed to be fun. Overtime, more and more rules change that. I have to believe that there are more people losing money from GB's gone bad (in the past) and "Vendor's" going MIA than some scammer in the Classifieds. People have to use a little common sense when buying anything online, it could happen on eBay, etc.

1) 60 posts minimum requirement to post in classy's
2) pictures with names required now (I'm cool with)
3) And now, post gets reviewed by mods before releasing?

I very much appreciate all the members here, mod's included. But let's take a step back and ask what this is really doing and how it will help the community. Please don't let a few fart bags ruin it for everyone else.

GH's policy has been that Moderator's & GH will not get involved in the Classifieds transactions, etc. Why take on that burden now?

Maybe we need some more rules and policy on who can run a group buy, instead of letting any random person throw one up. It's crazy when you think of the tens of thousands of dollars geekhackers have literally lost in group buys in the past year.

[Pacifist]

also for artisan services

[hashbaz]

1) 60 posts minimum requirement to post in classy's
2) pictures with names required now (I'm cool with)
3) And now, post gets reviewed by mods before releasing?

3 is a practical measure to help implement 2.  I would love for it not to be necessary to approve all classifieds posts, but for now it's less work than hassling people after the fact to fix their OPs.

[SpAmRaY]

1) 60 posts minimum requirement to post in classy's
2) pictures with names required now (I'm cool with)
3) And now, post gets reviewed by mods before releasing?

3 is a practical measure to help implement 2.  I would love for it not to be necessary to approve all classifieds posts, but for now it's less work than hassling people after the fact to fix their OPs.

and it gives the mods a purchasing advantage.

gg mods....gg

[hashbaz]

and it gives the mods a purchasing advantage.

gg mods....gg

Yeah, jwaz pointed that out the other day.  Most of us are pretty late in the keyboard buying circle of life though.  Personally, I have pretty much everything I want and haven't bought anything from classifieds in over a year.

[Pacifist]

do a 5 second rule for the mods

[digi]

1) 60 posts minimum requirement to post in classy's
2) pictures with names required now (I'm cool with)
3) And now, post gets reviewed by mods before releasing?

3 is a practical measure to help implement 2.  I would love for it not to be necessary to approve all classifieds posts, but for now it's less work than hassling people after the fact to fix their OPs.

I hear ya Hash. I support mkawa's plan (I think it is) which is the idea of just deleting the post if it doesn't comply with rules.

I totally agree that you guys shouldn't have to babysit (I deal with it at work), if a user doesn't follow the correct format. Just delete their post. The responsibility should be put on the user and hopefully rid of the need to approve all the posts in the classy's. They can only get mad at themselves for not following the guidelines this way.

[SpAmRaY]

and it gives the mods a purchasing advantage.

gg mods....gg

Yeah, jwaz pointed that out the other day.  Most of us are pretty late in the keyboard buying circle of life though.  Personally, I have pretty much everything I want and haven't bought anything from classifieds in over a year.

I'm eyeing that new guy, the tall goofy looking one.

[smknjoe]

And what does rule number 2 prove? That the seller actually has the item in their possession?

[hashbaz]

And what does rule number 2 prove? That the seller actually has the item in their possession?

Prove is a strong word, but yeah that's the idea.  Provide reasonable confidence that they have the item.

[Badwrench]

And what does rule number 2 prove? That the seller actually has the item in their possession?

Yup, plain and simple.

[mkawa]

to be clear, it doesn't prove anything, and we have no obligation to make sure that everything that happens in the classifieds will be satisfactory for anyone.

what we have done is come up with a very simple rule for people to follow to attempt to maintain the quality of the classifieds forum. if you have an item up for sale, please price it, whip out your phone, a pen and a piece of paper, and write your name, the current date on the pieces of paper, then take a picture of the item in whatever condition it's in plus the piece of paper with writing visible.

it's simple, it's easy, and hopefully, it will increase the overall quality of the forum for everyone.

because this has turned out to be such a pain to enforce, we are gating the posting of new threads with a super simple approval process. when you post, someone will take a quick look, advise you on what of the above is missing, if anything, and then make the thread public once nothing is missing.

that's it. simple. easy. hopefully a step in the right direction for the forum. once this has been going for a while, we will re-assess whether it's working, whether we need to continue gating new threads, etc. however, the least we ask of members is that they try it for a while. we sat down and thought pretty darn hard about this, and this is what we came up with. if it turns out not to work, we'll rethink and change things. if it turns out to work, yay.

that's really all we can do. as always, we welcome constructive criticism, but we also ask for your patience and cooperation. our goal as staff is to keep the quality of the forum high, and further to increase the quality of the forum where we think there are opportunities within our capabilities. there's no foolproof roadmap on how to do this. it requires reasonable discussion on all sides, trying potentially new things, and then assessing their efficacy.

[smknjoe]

I was just curious since this is the first I've heard of such changes. Thanks for the info.

[Tarzan]

And what does rule number 2 prove? That the seller actually has the item in their possession?

Prove is a strong word, but yeah that's the idea.  Provide reasonable confidence that they have the item.

Has this been a prevalent issue in the Classifieds?  People posting pictures of items they don't actually have, and swindling buyers in the process?

Because I've never actually heard of this being a problem.  Have people posted pics that are representative of the item they're selling?  Sure.  If they're selling a set from a group buy, link to the GB and all those pictures.  But has this resulted in a raft of sellers getting money from deluded buyers?

I'd rather see mod efforts devoted to fixing the group buy issues, as others have noted.  Policing the Classifieds so strenuously makes it appear the goal is to reduce the number of ads being posted.

But hey, what do I know.  I've only been around the forum for a year or so, still a newbie.

[sth]

And what does rule number 2 prove? That the seller actually has the item in their possession?

Prove is a strong word, but yeah that's the idea.  Provide reasonable confidence that they have the item.

Has this been a prevalent issue in the Classifieds?  People posting pictures of items they don't actually have, and swindling buyers in the process?

Because I've never actually heard of this being a problem.  Have people posted pics that are representative of the item they're selling?  Sure.  If they're selling a set from a group buy, link to the GB and all those pictures.  But has this resulted in a raft of sellers getting money from deluded buyers?

I'd rather see mod efforts devoted to fixing the group buy issues, as others have noted.  Policing the Classifieds so strenuously makes it appear the goal is to reduce the number of ads being posted.

But hey, what do I know.  I've only been around the forum for a year or so, still a newbie.

in the past people have sold clacks that they got in 4grabs before they received them. now, that's "fine" as far as being financially legitimate but lots of people voiced the opinion that that is shady and bad for the community to continue supporting that kind of behavior. it's not just about 'swindling' but continuing to develop and refine the classifieds as a community platform.

[mkawa]

And what does rule number 2 prove? That the seller actually has the item in their possession?

Prove is a strong word, but yeah that's the idea.  Provide reasonable confidence that they have the item.

Has this been a prevalent issue in the Classifieds?  People posting pictures of items they don't actually have, and swindling buyers in the process?

Because I've never actually heard of this being a problem.  Have people posted pics that are representative of the item they're selling?  Sure.  If they're selling a set from a group buy, link to the GB and all those pictures.  But has this resulted in a raft of sellers getting money from deluded buyers?

I'd rather see mod efforts devoted to fixing the group buy issues, as others have noted.  Policing the Classifieds so strenuously makes it appear the goal is to reduce the number of ads being posted.

But hey, what do I know.  I've only been around the forum for a year or so, still a newbie.

not as new as cptbadass

and this is just one step (the first step, really) in our revision of the marketplace guidelines and our enforcement thereof. this was the first step because it's by far the easier forum to institute rules for and the easiest to enforce. group buys are these monstrous things that takes months to unfold. it's a much harder problem.

will it solve a concrete problem? don't know. was there a problem at all? we have been getting an escalating number of complaints about classifieds transactions. on a case to case basis, there is really nothing we can do. but there are blanket actions we can take uniformly on all ads to increase the quality of said ads.

[Pacifist]

What's the stance on having WTB text in signatures when you don't meet the requirements?

[mkawa]

not allowed. please report.

[esoomenona]

Be careful about reporting. You will get muted for reporting even if you didn't report...

[metalliqaz]

Be careful about reporting. You will get muted for reporting even if you didn't report...

This makes my head explode

[sth]

snitchin? in my geekhack?

[microsoft windows]

Yeah, this change to the classifieds forum sounds pretty stupid. Why not just sell yall's stuff on Ebay or Craigslist? Those sites don't require "mod approval" in order to post an ad.

[vivalarevolución]

I still don't know what was so bad before that required the clamp-down.
More regulation ==  less freedom == fewer users == everyone loses.

I am in complete agreement with this statement.  I understand the demands of running this forum, and that it is a privilege for us to post here, not a right, but every month seems to come with more rules and moderator-enforced policies.  Not only do the moderators create more work for themselves, they also make this place less appealing by piling on rules and expectations that nobody wants to read.

The joy of an Internet forum is the free-for-all nature of the place.  If it loses that, then I don't want to be here.

It's Caveat Emptor.  It's inevitable that people will get screwed.  If they want a more secure buying process, go elsewhere.

[microsoft windows]

I posted an ad in the classifieds for an air conditioner the other day and I can't find it now. Where did it go?

[Photoelectric]

Yeah, this change to the classifieds forum sounds pretty stupid. Why not just sell yall's stuff on Ebay or Craigslist? Those sites don't require "mod approval" in order to post an ad.

I posted an ad in the classifieds for an air conditioner the other day and I can't find it now. Where did it go?

Why not just sell it on Craigslist? 

[microsoft windows]

I wanted to give my fellow geek-hackers a shot at it first.


But I guess air conditioners are bad for forums. Oh well...