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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: xeon123 on Thu, 12 September 2013, 04:17:36

Title: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: xeon123 on Thu, 12 September 2013, 04:17:36
Hi,

If thorpe keyboards use a rubber dome and a spring, is it still durable?

What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: mauri on Thu, 12 September 2013, 04:19:16
Both will last until the end of times
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: Emospence on Thu, 12 September 2013, 04:45:08
Both will last until the end of times

That's exaggerating..

Just a little.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: Emospence on Thu, 12 September 2013, 04:45:33
Also, *Topre
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: zoolzoo on Thu, 12 September 2013, 04:56:24
i hink thorpe
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: ch_123 on Thu, 12 September 2013, 05:12:36
Cherry MX are rated for 50 million actuations. Topres were rated for 30 million, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that they bumped up that figure to 50 million as well.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: terran5992 on Thu, 12 September 2013, 06:06:48
Cherry mx losses their feel, thorpes get more tactile the longer you use it
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Thu, 12 September 2013, 07:20:24
Cherry MX -> Slider wears (smoother but perhap losing some tactility) and spring resistance reduces (keypress feels lighter)
Topre -> Never used a really old Topre board, but as rubber tends to get harder over time the resistance and tactility should raise
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: Danule on Thu, 12 September 2013, 07:42:58
THORPE.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: Moosecraft on Thu, 12 September 2013, 07:43:25
ALL HAIL THORPE
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: badcop on Thu, 12 September 2013, 07:45:48
(http://static1.fjcdn.com/comments/Huehuehue+Fat+people+falling+_f78c53a40c322b81c611bee46453d85f.jpg)
mfw reading this thread
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: SpAmRaY on Thu, 12 September 2013, 07:51:28
toprah?
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: SeriouSSpotS on Thu, 12 September 2013, 07:55:15
I don't know
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: Krigo on Thu, 12 September 2013, 08:02:18
I've had my Topre board since 49 BCE. True story.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: Hyde on Thu, 12 September 2013, 08:13:04
Topre -> Never used a really old Topre board, but as rubber tends to get harder over time the resistance and tactility should raise

I thought the rubber also gets softer as it was broken in.  I wonder if it would cancel each other out lol.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Thu, 12 September 2013, 08:13:20
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: Thimplum on Thu, 12 September 2013, 08:29:33
beamspring.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: eth0s on Thu, 12 September 2013, 08:32:50
I would choose Thorpe over Sherry any day, all day, urr day.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Thu, 12 September 2013, 10:06:52
toprah?

I am going to refer to them this way from now on LOL.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: Neo.X on Thu, 12 September 2013, 10:17:47
You see people here looking for vintage black or vintage brown, did you ever see someone looking for vintage topre?  :)
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: davkol on Thu, 12 September 2013, 10:25:06
The Topre rubber dome degrades over time.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47440.msg1011377#msg1011377
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: keymaster on Thu, 12 September 2013, 10:25:52
Both MX and Topre will most likely outlast the user's need to use one particular board. Most of us have more than one board here, so it is unlikely that any of our boards will reach the 50million+ milestone.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: Neo.X on Thu, 12 September 2013, 10:46:01
The Topre rubber dome degrades over time.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47440.msg1011377#msg1011377

Does this degrade occur because of use (typing) or just because of time? :eek:

I have some keyboards that I just want to keep them for collection (mx and topre). If they degrade after couple years, I might just sell them.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: davkol on Thu, 12 September 2013, 10:49:18
I have very little long-term personal experience with Topre (it's not my cup of tea), but I'd guess stiffness might change just due to aging, while the other things depend on use.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: Thimplum on Thu, 12 September 2013, 10:53:56
Honestly, I know that people are going to hate me for this. At it's core, Topre is based on a rubber dome switch. There's a bunch of other stuff in there too, but what provides the feel and tactility is a rubber dome. So it won't last a lot longer than a standard dome keyboard.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: esoomenona on Thu, 12 September 2013, 10:55:42
Honestly, I know that people are going to hate me for this. At it's core, Topre is based on a rubber dome switch. There's a bunch of other stuff in there too, but what provides the feel and tactility is a rubber dome. So it won't last a lot longer than a standard dome keyboard.

Actually, it will, because what tends to fail first in a rubber dome keyboard is the membrane pressing against the PCB. Topre circumvents that with the use of the capacitive springs.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: davkol on Thu, 12 September 2013, 10:58:17
That's true. Topre switches ought to register as long as Cherry MX, which is about 50 million times. However, that doesn't say anything about feel.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: Thimplum on Thu, 12 September 2013, 11:00:02
The feel is what I was getting at. The feel will degrade with the rubber.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: Neo.X on Thu, 12 September 2013, 11:07:52
The feel is what I was getting at. The feel will degrade with the rubber.

The feel is the key, I don't want to show my children my collection of those fancy keyboards, and they feel like sh..... :(

Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: Thimplum on Thu, 12 September 2013, 11:38:57
Topre will probably last a very long time before you get a noticeable difference, though.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: natas206 on Thu, 12 September 2013, 12:42:50
Jim Thorpe - founder of the Thorpe keyboard

(http://www.walden.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Jim-Thorpe-cover.jpg)

Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 12 September 2013, 18:17:26
Is is likely that the other parts of the keyboard - case, keycaps, even plate (e.g. rust) would deteriorate long before the switches died?

And anyway,m for MX at least individual switches can be replaced if they fail.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: ch_123 on Thu, 12 September 2013, 18:22:53
Honestly, I know that people are going to hate me for this. At it's core, Topre is based on a rubber dome switch. There's a bunch of other stuff in there too, but what provides the feel and tactility is a rubber dome. So it won't last a lot longer than a standard dome keyboard.

I'm going to take the bait here.

It depends on what you mean by "last". If you remove the rubber dome from a Topre switch, it will still work (at least in principle, the spring may not stay in place in practice) so the switch will continue to actuate for longer than a membrane contact keyboard which is far more prone to age and contamination, and possibly even longer than a metal leaf contact switch like the Cherry MX. So rubber dome wear has little effect on the mechanical reliability of the switch.

If you mean last in terms of "How long will it remain enjoyable to type on" then you have a point. However, this also applies to tactile MX switches. Ever type on a worn out Brown Cherry keyboard? Feels almost linear. Old Blue Cherry boards aren't that great either.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 12 September 2013, 18:24:48
Honestly, I know that people are going to hate me for this. At it's core, Topre is based on a rubber dome switch. There's a bunch of other stuff in there too, but what provides the feel and tactility is a rubber dome. So it won't last a lot longer than a standard dome keyboard.

I'm going to take the bait here.

It depends on what you mean by "last". If you remove the rubber dome from a Topre switch, it will still work (at least in principle, the spring may not stay in place in practice) so the switch will continue to actuate for longer than a membrane contact keyboard which is far more prone to age and contamination.

If you mean last in terms of "How long will it remain enjoyable to type on" then you have a point. However, this also applies to tactile MX switches. Ever type on a worn out Brown Cherry keyboard? Feels almost linear. Old Blue Cherry boards aren't that great either.

But old MX linear (especially blacks) are wonderful to type on :)
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: MKULTRA on Thu, 12 September 2013, 18:28:26
beamspring.
ho ho ho
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: ch_123 on Thu, 12 September 2013, 18:29:36
Right, but linear switches tend to remain viable for much longer than tactile switches because tactile elements wear out (think of all the friction wearing those little plastic bumps out) quicker than springs.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 12 September 2013, 18:42:03
Right, but linear switches tend to remain viable for much longer than tactile switches because tactile elements wear out (think of all the friction wearing those little plastic bumps out) quicker than springs.

That's what I was thinking.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: sth on Thu, 12 September 2013, 18:43:45
Thorpe RealFroshe
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 12 September 2013, 18:45:50
Thorpe HKBB?
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: The_Beast on Thu, 12 September 2013, 18:51:01
Topper is better than Thorpe!
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: sth on Thu, 12 September 2013, 19:04:24
LepoLoad 666Capatown
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: davkol on Thu, 12 September 2013, 19:46:38
Kappa.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: eth0s on Thu, 12 September 2013, 19:55:01
All I know is, Thorpe allows you to enjoy the good feeling of cupness with one rubber.

Sherry keyswitches wear out over time.  I have a Sherry keyboard from 1994, and the Enter key stopped working some time ago.  Also not all of the blues still click on that keyboard.  Did I say Sherry blues?  I meant Sherry bewbs.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: PointyFox on Thu, 12 September 2013, 20:21:25
(http://i.qkme.me/3sa21j.jpg)
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: Parak on Thu, 12 September 2013, 20:32:21
beamspring.
ho ho ho

All other things being equal, is actually less durable and way harder to maintain than capacitive buckling springs, for various reasons :(

I had to wrap mine in poly..
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: eth0s on Thu, 12 September 2013, 21:12:52
Show Image
(http://i.qkme.me/3sa21j.jpg)


Thorpe: "enjoy your feeling of cupness with one rubber."

It says so on the box.

On geekhack.org, they say Thorpe switches feel like you're typing on a bewb of clouds.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: abdulmuhsee on Thu, 12 September 2013, 21:34:03
Damn, so the guy misspelled Topre.  Talk about beating a joke into the ground.

To answer your question, don't buy a keyboard because of how long you think it'll last.  If you're going by the manufacturer rated actuations, whether it be 30 million or 50 million, the board would hypothetically last for decades or even a century or more (i.e. - don't believe the BS actuation ratings).  You probably won't even be that into mechanical keyboards by the time it's supposed to expire.

But some other part in the keyboard will likely wear away before the actual switches, and you'll spill a glass of orange juice in there long before that.  Get the keyboard based on what you think you'll enjoy right now in the present.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: Kagusaki Wolf on Thu, 12 September 2013, 21:50:33
I would say in whole, cherry keyboards will last longer.  It's easy and cheap to find replacement switches if one wears out :3
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: meiosis on Thu, 12 September 2013, 21:52:55
I think MX lasts longer only because it's quite easy to replace the switches. Both pcb's of Topre and MX probably have similar lifespans, but Topre is a pain to change out the rubber pads
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: Hyde on Thu, 12 September 2013, 21:56:48
Didn't some guy already did a hypothetical situation where if you press on a single key 1000 times a day, it will take 82 years until you hit the 30 million keystrokes and 137 years until you hit the 50 million keystrokes.

Chances are you won't hit a single key 1000 times a day and realistically geekhackers will buy several keyboards per year anyway so statistically speaking you'll never hit that mark.

So I say go enjoy your oneness with cup rubber and pop some Cherry after.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: yasuo on Thu, 12 September 2013, 22:02:37
Mechanical 50 million
Topre 30 million
evidence cherry often problem,but easy for changing switches if problem :))
but topre more last longer :thumb:
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: Sniping on Thu, 12 September 2013, 22:13:29
Topre has changed their rating to 50 million
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: keymaster on Thu, 12 September 2013, 22:15:16
I'm starting to think OP is just making troll threads.  :blank:
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: sth on Thu, 12 September 2013, 23:06:04
hahaha, a switch is more durable than another because you can replace it when it breaks? that sounds like... not durable at best, planned obsolescence at worst.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: noisyturtle on Thu, 12 September 2013, 23:09:31
I would say thorpe would deteriorate faster because of the hardening and cracking of the rubber over time. But it's a silly comparison unless you plan on using the same keyboard for 15 years.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: PointyFox on Thu, 12 September 2013, 23:28:50
I would say thorpe would deteriorate faster because of the hardening and cracking of the rubber over time. But it's a silly comparison unless you plan on using the same keyboard for 15 years.

But.. but... the only reason most of us bought mechanical keyboards was because they were supposed to last 100+ years.   :-[

*Sells mechanical keyboard and goes back to rubber dome*
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 13 September 2013, 00:11:17
Rubber dome last < 1 year.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: Polymer on Fri, 13 September 2013, 01:56:08
A general question...

Has anyone with a Topre board had the switch wear out on them?  You rarely hear about it but there are far fewer people with them as well...
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: KangarooZombies on Fri, 13 September 2013, 01:58:05
A general question...

Has anyone with a Topre board had the switch wear out on them?  You rarely hear about it but there are far fewer people with them as well...

Mr. Stallman has had his hhkb for about 20 years now i believe. still working.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 13 September 2013, 04:37:24
A general question...

Has anyone with a Topre board had the switch wear out on them?  You rarely hear about it but there are far fewer people with them as well...

Mr. Stallman has had his hhkb for about 20 years now i believe. still working.

You surprise me.

I would have thought Topre was a less open standard than MX.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 13 September 2013, 04:39:06
I think MX lasts longer only because it's quite easy to replace the switches. Both pcb's of Topre and MX probably have similar lifespans, but Topre is a pain to change out the rubber pads

I don't know about the Realforce keyboards, but it is much easier to access the innards of my HHKB than any Cherry board I've seen. Finding replacement parts for the Topre may be an issue though.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 13 September 2013, 05:00:42
I think MX lasts longer only because it's quite easy to replace the switches. Both pcb's of Topre and MX probably have similar lifespans, but Topre is a pain to change out the rubber pads

I don't know about the Realforce keyboards, but it is much easier to access the innards of my HHKB than any Cherry board I've seen. Finding replacement parts for the Topre may be an issue though.

Yeah, this.

There are how many custom MX boards around?

And have you seen one custom Topre board?

Even making Topre key chains is a challenge.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: davkol on Fri, 13 September 2013, 09:55:55
A general question...

Has anyone with a Topre board had the switch wear out on them?  You rarely hear about it but there are far fewer people with them as well...

Mr. Stallman has had his hhkb for about 20 years now i believe. still working.

Yeah, but I don't think he types a lot because of his issues with RSI.
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: daerid on Fri, 13 September 2013, 10:05:45
A general question...

Has anyone with a Topre board had the switch wear out on them?  You rarely hear about it but there are far fewer people with them as well...

Mr. Stallman has had his hhkb for about 20 years now i believe. still working.

Then it wouldn't be a Topre switch. The first Topre HHKB was introduced in 2003 (per Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Hacking_Keyboard)).
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: Hellmark on Fri, 13 September 2013, 12:43:10
toprah?

Reading that, I think of Oprah. Will a keyboard come out yelling "EVERYONE GETS ONE! YOU GET ONE! AND YOU GET ONE! AND YOU!"
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: morpheus on Sat, 14 September 2013, 02:30:45
OP, the Thorpe thing was a joke right?
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: rowdy on Sat, 14 September 2013, 03:29:30
I suspect it was a typo.  That is so embarrassing - making a typo on a keyboard forum ;)
Title: Re: What lasts longer? Cherry or Thorpe?
Post by: chill1217 on Sat, 14 September 2013, 11:16:40
I suspect it was a typo.  That is so embarrassing - making a typo on a keyboard forum ;)

not a typo, he used the same spelling in both title and post   :p

probably just an honest mistake!!