Phantom Custom Keyboard Group Buy (CLOSED)

[tsangan]

My hero <3

[litster]

I just don't know how much it would cost to make one.

[hashbaz]

The cardboard case needs a wiki article!  Looks like an awesome hack.

[tsangan]

I just don't know how much it would cost to make one.

Cost is not an issue for custom cases!!!!!!

[NumberJ]

Cost is not an issue for custom cases!!!!!!

Seconded.

[litster]

Well, don't get your hope too high.  I don't know if this is a good design yet,  and what quality it would turn out to be.

[tsangan]

Well, don't get your hope too high.  I don't know if this is a good design yet,  and what quality it would turn out to be.

prototype cost would go into the cost of the casing for everyone, im sure after 3-4 prototype it will be perfected, and acrylic you can't really go wrong

[TheProfosist]

PH7BIT updated in 2nd post.

I believe the picture and pcb dont match

[litster]

I believe the picture and pcb dont match

How so?

[TheProfosist]

How so?

picture


plate


the plate is correct bu the picture is wrong as the left **** is in the wrong place


also is there any way that you could design a plate for me as in 7bit with ISO style left shift

[litster]

LOL!  I have a bug in one of the layouts.  I will have to fix it or it would look goofy.

I don't know if we can make another plate.  PrinsValium would have to do it.  And adding another plate would introduce more complexity for ordering, inventory, shipping, and potentially opening up to other people wanting their own plate designs.  honestly, as one of the organizers, I think this group buy is getting too complicated.  You should work it out with 7bit to see if you can share the same plate design with him.

[TheProfosist]

LOL!  I have a bug in one of the layouts.  I will have to fix it or it would look goofy.

I don't know if we can make another plate.  PrinsValium would have to do it.  And adding another plate would introduce more complexity for ordering, inventory, shipping, and potentially opening up to other people wanting their own plate designs.  honestly, as one of the organizers, I think this group buy is getting too complicated.  You should work it out with 7bit to see if you can share the same plate design with him.

no im only asking for the file I will get on my own if needed

[dorkvader]

The cardboard case needs a wiki article!  Looks like an awesome hack.

I'm gonna go with that for sure now, until an acrylic case is made (I'll do it by hand if I have to!)

It's either that or tack welding feet directly onto the plate with a car battery.

[litster]

I did the cardboard case as a prove of concept.  It is pretty easy to make it if you have a keyboard and can open it up.  I turned the top case upside down and used a pencil to trace the cutouts on a piece of cardboard.  Then I just cut the holes out with a cutter.  For the 2rd layer, you need a few of them if your cardboards are not thick enough.  And you need to have the 3rd layout as you need to make room for the teensy controller or the Filco USB cable connector.  It is a little more problematic to make it work for Filco because Filco's controller takes up space north of the arrow key switches, so layer 2 is a little thicker than it would be for Phantom, and would make the strip between the function keys and the number keys on the top layer a little floppy because it is not laying on the mounting plate.  For the Phantom the top layer could lay flat on the metal mounting plate.  But I haven't figured out what to do with the LED holes.  The smaller the Phantom's LEDs are, the better.  If they are too big, then there is no room for the holes on the thin strip.
 

Ah, wait!  With transparent acrylic, I don't need holes!  How close to the PCB can the LEDs be?  If they are below the mounting plate, then I don't need LED holes at all.

[Minskleip]

7BIT layout is not ISO (1.25 Shift followed by 1 unit ) and not ANSI (2.25 units Shift).

One way would be to make a long hole to have the opprtunity to mount the 2 switches at nay position you like. The clips whoich hold them on the mount plate are on top and bottom, so this should not be too much of a problem, but I'm only a layout expert, no mountplate expert.


Because I prefer to have a larger Shift key. The other key serves as Shift Word which in emacs just holds shift until I hit space or return. Also, the whole thing becomes a little bit more symmetric.

What's the function in Emacs called for shift word?

[tsangan]

Are you suppose to get a email confirmation from Phantom?

[litster]

This is a 7bit question :-).  When was the last time you submitted an order PM to PHANTOM?  I sent an order update to PHANTOM a few days ago and got an updated invoice within a couple hours, IIRC.

[7bit]

What's the function in Emacs called for shift word?

SHIFT LOCK, but it turns back to normal when I hit SPACE or RETURN.

Example:
[Shift Word]SPH/TERMINAL 1
[Shift Word]SPH/POS 2
[Shift Word]SPH/SPACE 2
[Shift Word]SHIFT [Shift Word]LOCK, but it turns back to normal when I hit [Shift Word]SPACE or [Shift Word]RETURN.

[dorkvader]

I did the cardboard case as a prove of concept.  It is pretty easy to make it if you have a keyboard and can open it up.  I turned the top case upside down and used a pencil to trace the cutouts on a piece of cardboard.  Then I just cut the holes out with a cutter.  For the 2rd layer, you need a few of them if your cardboards are not thick enough.  And you need to have the 3rd layout as you need to make room for the teensy controller or the Filco USB cable connector.  It is a little more problematic to make it work for Filco because Filco's controller takes up space north of the arrow key switches, so layer 2 is a little thicker than it would be for Phantom, and would make the strip between the function keys and the number keys on the top layer a little floppy because it is not laying on the mounting plate.  For the Phantom the top layer could lay flat on the metal mounting plate.  But I haven't figured out what to do with the LED holes.  The smaller the Phantom's LEDs are, the better.  If they are too big, then there is no room for the holes on the thin strip.
 

Ah, wait!  With transparent acrylic, I don't need holes!  How close to the PCB can the LEDs be?  If they are below the mounting plate, then I don't need LED holes at all.

Mouser has some 1mm wide LED's which should work pretty well if you tip them over.
http://www.mouser.com/Optoelectronics/LED-Indication/Standard-LED-Through-Hole/_/N-75pv5?P=1z0rxq6

I was planning on lighting up the underside of the board anyway, so you can see if scroll lock is on by looking for the light coming through the bottom

[dux]

I still haven't got time to measure the plu. But I am doing something, here is the proof:
How to open the plu

How to open the PLU.
Don't use any keypullers on the original PLU keycaps, because you will pull some of the nipples of the switches out. Use the method from the video.

[Minskleip]

SHIFT LOCK, but it turns back to normal when I hit SPACE or RETURN.

Example:
[Shift Word]SPH/TERMINAL 1
[Shift Word]SPH/POS 2
[Shift Word]SPH/SPACE 2
[Shift Word]SHIFT [Shift Word]LOCK, but it turns back to normal when I hit [Shift Word]SPACE or [Shift Word]RETURN.

Is this some kind of Linux specific?

[TheProfosist]

I still haven't got time to measure the plu. But I am doing something, here is the proof:
How to open the plu

How to open the PLU.
Don't use any keypullers on the original PLU keycaps, because you will pull some of the nipples of the switches out. Use the method from the video.

Opened the Rosewills that I have almost the same way.

[Tarkoon]

The plate for PHISO125 seems to be wrong, because I see no ISO enter there, but an ANSI one...
And the left shift is wrong too...

[7bit]

Is this some kind of Linux specific?

No, it is Emacs-7bit edition specific :-)

I did not yet find a way to make this system wide.

I'm not sure if it is possible to do it in the Teensy controller ....

[Minskleip]

No, it is Emacs-7bit edition specific :-)

I did not yet find a way to make this system wide.

I'm not sure if it is possible to do it in the Teensy controller ....

Hehe ok.

I'm planning to add such features. Just have to add 'modes' to the firmware so every feature I add is not a dirty hack

I've already added shift lock with led and simple macros.

[hashbaz]

Modes?  Now you're speaking my language (vim user here).  I'm going to have a lot of fun hacking on the Teensy, methinks.

[Minskleip]

Modes?  Now you're speaking my language (vim user here).  I'm going to have a lot of fun hacking on the Teensy, methinks.

Like in normal mode everything you type is sent to the computer, but in shift lock mode the controller checks each key first and for instance turns off shift if a shift key is pressed.

Or in shift word mode space reverts to normal mode.

[bpiphany]

I'm pretty certain that the Filco connecters are JST not Molex and that ebay is a source for the correct cable end.  That PCB mount connector is a match, however the Filco uses a surface mount version of it (this one is thru-hole).  Hope that helps.

I tried the Molex connectors with my Filco cables. The are not the same, the color is different for one thing. But they seem to fit perfectly, even the little latches hook on like they should.

[alaricljs]

Not surprising that the 2 companies have compatible connectors.  Glad that there's an alternative because of that.

[litster]

We should be able to get Cherry stabilizers, potentially Costar stablizers from taobao.  The problem is we can't get metal bars for stablizers especially the long ones for 6.25x and 7.0x spacebars.  Anyone knows the size of these metal bars and if we could bend/cut our own?

[ishtob]

I've been cutting my own from rods I get from the hobby shop, you just need a wire cutter and 2 pliers

[litster]

Meet the Phantom... case.

Need to eat dinner.  More pictures later.

[hashbaz]

Looks awesome litster!  So the next step in this project is the PCB/plate prototypes, right?  TheProfosist, did the 7bit layout/plate questions get settled?

And do we have any guesstimate of when money will actually be collected?  Trying to manage my keyboard budget here...

[litster]

I learned a lot doing the cut myself tonight.  And I now have more questions and logistic issues to resolve.  First test plates should be done this week. If things go well, we could be ordering test PCBs next week.  But we are still a little ways away from collecting money.

[hashbaz]

Little ways as in weeks or months?

[litster]

I say at least 1.5 months away.

[hashbaz]

Sounds good, thanks.

[TheProfosist]

Looks awesome litster!  So the next step in this project is the PCB/plate prototypes, right?  TheProfosist, did the 7bit layout/plate questions get settled?

And do we have any guesstimate of when money will actually be collected?  Trying to manage my keyboard budget here...

No I dont think the plate thing got settled. I believe someone brought up the idea of making the plate so that the left shift could be on the inside or the out side. If that cant be done I still want left shift on the outside like ISO I would at least like a plate design that I can submit and get cut myself as I assume not that many people want the layout that I do. The only reason that I ask about this is because the two people and I would prefer the left shift to be on the outside like ISO.

Also I know that we might have a acrylic case now but it would stil be good to know if the PLU has the same case as a Filco. Also do we have any possible prices on a complete Acrylic case?

[litster]

Yes, we will get you the plate dxf files.  Either we make the change for you, or you can make the change.  It should be fairly easy.

[TheProfosist]

Yes, we will get you the plate dxf files.  Either we make the change for you, or you can make the change.  It should be fairly easy.

Thanks alot, It would be great if you could make the changes as I have no experience and dont have the time to gain it currently. Now I can finalize both my Phantom 7bit and DOX layouts and should be able to start a DOX soon.

[litster]

A couple more pictures:





Thing I need to do or think about:
- 2nd layer needs to be a tad thicker for Filco.  Not a problem with the actual Phantom.
- lower screws count from 11 to 8, don't really need that many screws.
- right now the PCB is sitting on the bottom layer.  A better way to do this is to glue a few acrylic posts to support the plate instead.  Need to engrave the post positions.  Notices the PCB has already scratched the bottom layer.  If we do this, the 3rd layer needs to be thicker.
- need to move the cable cut out to center.  I underestimated how long the cable is.
- the second layer needs to be a tad wider and longer than it is now.  maybe 0.5mm.  Right now it is a super tight fit.  Need final plate and PCB to determined final size.
- Need to back legs.  Currently it is too flat.
- The top layer is OK, but I can move some key holes a little bit to center the holes to  keycaps.  Need to way for the final plate cut to determine final key hole locations.
Round out the inside corners for the 3rd layer.
- I need better screws.  Please, any suggestions for better screws?  these from Lowe's sucks.  They are too long and I had to Dremel them.
- I got my Teensy today.  The 3rd layer's thickness is perfect.
- should we make the case both Phantom and Filco compatible?
- as much as I have cut out, the case is HEAVY!  Is that good?
- the Phantom wording took a long time to cut, especially because that layer is so thick, the laser need to run slower to cut it.  It barely cut through.  For the final version, I don't think the word Phantom will be cut.  Maybe engraved.

[kaiserreich]

So now the keyboard case will be in acrylic?
I'm not a fan of transparent cases, just acrylic keyboard roofs.

I have not work with acrylic before, but is it possible to add color to it?

[slueth]

Yes

[litster]

You could use colored acrylic, I suppose.  The same drawing could be use to watercut aluminum plates, just like the mounting plate.  But cutting aluminum plates could be more expensive.  I am not sure.  Will need to check with BiNiaRiS to see if his shop could do it.  Some of the acrylic layers are as thick as half an inch.  Not sure how much that would cost with watercutting aluminum.

But with aluminum, you could anodize it to interesting colors.

[litster]

I've been cutting my own from rods I get from the hobby shop, you just need a wire cutter and 2 pliers

So it is doable.  That is good.  What is the diameter for the rods?

[kaiserreich]

I just realized I mentioned the wrong kind of color.
What I meant by color, is for the acrylic to be completely opaque, will this be troublesome?

[litster]

Thanks alot, It would be great if you could make the changes as I have no experience and dont have the time to gain it currently. Now I can finalize both my Phantom 7bit and DOX layouts and should be able to start a DOX soon.

You will need to ask PrinsValium to do that change for you.  I know how to do it in QCAD, but I don't know for sure where to move/change for the switch locations.

[litster]

I just realized I mentioned the wrong kind of color.
What I meant by color, is for the acrylic to be completely opaque, will this be troublesome?

Take a look here: http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/category.php?bid=49

There are opaque colors to choose from.  Now that I know how to make one for myself, I don't yet know how to mass produce it and still have an affordable price.  But the time I have the final drawing, this will have cost me over $200 just in material, due to trial and errors.

We still have time.  Next up is the mounting plate, and then PCBs.  Thing are coming togther though.  I am super excited that my drawing and design actually works.  and that I am totally exhausted mentally... :-)

[dorkvader]

Litster, you're gonna make the OTD guys jealous for once. Excellent case!

[bpiphany]

The plate for PHISO125 seems to be wrong, because I see no ISO enter there, but an ANSI one...
And the left shift is wrong too...

Litster I think you simply uploaded the wrong screenshot, PHISO125 and PHANSI125 both are the same image.

No I dont think the plate thing got settled. I believe someone brought up the idea of making the plate so that the left shift could be on the inside or the out side. If that cant be done I still want left shift on the outside like ISO I would at least like a plate design that I can submit and get cut myself as I assume not that many people want the layout that I do. The only reason that I ask about this is because the two people and I would prefer the left shift to be on the outside like ISO.

Also I know that we might have a acrylic case now but it would stil be good to know if the PLU has the same case as a Filco. Also do we have any possible prices on a complete Acrylic case?

Yes, we will get you the plate dxf files.  Either we make the change for you, or you can make the change.  It should be fairly easy.

This has been done I think. You should have the dxf litster, could you please update the second post? Tell me if there is something more I need to do...