Author Topic: [GB] Lasgweloth PCB, a "leaf-spring tray-mount" 60% (UPDATE: sound tests added)  (Read 31522 times)

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Offline Gondolindrim

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Re: [GB] Lasgweloth PCB, a "leaf-spring tray-mount" 60% universal PCB
« Reply #50 on: Wed, 06 May 2020, 09:36:49 »
Ok guys, so had an issue with a participant and I am contacting Kenny20x2
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline LevelSteam

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Re: [GB] Lasgweloth PCB, a "leaf-spring tray-mount" 60% universal PCB
« Reply #51 on: Wed, 06 May 2020, 09:54:57 »
Ok guys so I was unable to contact over Discord:

jkshowman
Jaygro
Beekey
ricepixer
TopreMoon
LevelSteam
jjexpat00


Please DM me at Gondolindrim#9738

DM'd

Offline Gondolindrim

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Re: [GB] Lasgweloth PCB, a "leaf-spring tray-mount" 60% universal PCB
« Reply #52 on: Wed, 06 May 2020, 20:04:44 »
One participant gave up his spot. Contacting zytyx
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline rath_k

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Re: [GB] Lasgweloth PCB, a "leaf-spring tray-mount" 60% universal PCB
« Reply #53 on: Sat, 16 May 2020, 22:12:58 »
I wonder if it would be a good idea to match a 5mm poly plate with this on something like a T60 with two mounting points. Extra flex and sound?

Offline ricepixer

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Re: [GB] Lasgweloth PCB, a "leaf-spring tray-mount" 60% universal PCB
« Reply #54 on: Wed, 24 June 2020, 21:57:36 »
Oh crud, thank you for doing this project and sharing it with us! Unfortunately I never was able to see the discord message that I won the raffle (I have never won a raffle for anything  :().  Maybe email would have worked better.  So I'm bummed I didn't get in on this.  But if it does indeed end up going to Cannonkeys I will for sure pick one up along with an fr4 plate for my Fjell.

Offline KrasH

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Re: [GB] Lasgweloth PCB, a "leaf-spring tray-mount" 60% universal PCB
« Reply #55 on: Fri, 17 July 2020, 05:50:27 »
Color me interested. Will be on the lookout to see when it arrives at Jae's store <3

Offline Gondolindrim

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Re: [GB] Lasgweloth PCB, a "leaf-spring tray-mount" 60% universal PCB
« Reply #56 on: Fri, 24 July 2020, 09:28:27 »
Prototypes are in. I'm unable to prototype the thinner versions as the stab standoffs that he fab sent are the wrong thickness and won't fit, so they had to re-send. The plate prototypes are incoming in another shipment.

I will be assembling two prorotypes this weekend, probably tomorrow at 5PM BRT, so watch out for the stream announcement.






« Last Edit: Fri, 24 July 2020, 09:30:13 by Gondolindrim »
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline n0rvig

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Re: [GB] Lasgweloth PCB, a "leaf-spring tray-mount" 60% universal PCB
« Reply #57 on: Fri, 24 July 2020, 13:27:33 »
Wow!  This is such a neat idea. I'm looking forward to hearing more about the prototypes. How do we follow along for updates on this project?

Offline Gondolindrim

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Re: [GB] Lasgweloth PCB, a "leaf-spring tray-mount" 60% universal PCB
« Reply #58 on: Fri, 24 July 2020, 14:38:26 »
Wow!  This is such a neat idea. I'm looking forward to hearing more about the prototypes. How do we follow along for updates on this project?

I post all updates in this thread!
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline lofi_network

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Re: [GB] Lasgweloth PCB, a "leaf-spring tray-mount" 60% universal PCB
« Reply #59 on: Sat, 25 July 2020, 11:26:14 »
This is such an innovative and cool design - thank you for everything you do, Gondo!  Can't wait to see prototype build results.

Do you know which US vendors you'll be working with on these when the GB is over?  I missed the GB window and want to make sure I'm on whatever newsletter I need to be on to get notified when this gets released :)

Offline ricepixer

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Re: [GB] Lasgweloth PCB, a "leaf-spring tray-mount" 60% universal PCB
« Reply #60 on: Wed, 29 July 2020, 00:54:25 »
Wow the purple color pcb looks sick!  Love this design and will definitely pick one up with an fr4 plate when it's ready.

Offline Gondolindrim

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Re: [GB] Lasgweloth PCB, a "leaf-spring tray-mount" 60% universal PCB
« Reply #61 on: Sat, 29 August 2020, 22:20:44 »
Lasgweloth pre-Alpha was assembled today and the firmware was written. The prototype works perfectly, but I will make a couple modifications.

I will this week contact the GB participants tom ask them the PCB thickness they will want.
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline Zurg Eon

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Re: [GB] Lasgweloth PCB, a "leaf-spring tray-mount" 60% universal PCB
« Reply #62 on: Sun, 30 August 2020, 07:59:38 »
Happy to learn Jae will be selling these! Will get in on that :thumb:

Offline Gondolindrim

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Re: [GB] Lasgweloth PCB, a "leaf-spring tray-mount" 60% universal PCB
« Reply #63 on: Mon, 28 September 2020, 09:28:30 »
Ok! This has been quite some time now!

This weekend I finished a build of prototypes, using both MT3 (PBT dyesub) and GMK keycaps. The complete build is:

  • TOFU case
  • C3 stabs
  • Holy Chicky switches (HALO stem inside Cherry MX housings)
  • "Level 4" Lasgweloth (1.6mm PCB with bottom posts and central post removed)
  • FR4 plate

I did the builds and the typing tests on stream. Links for the videos:

MT3 (please watch first as all the explanations are here): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2_-qJvzRrc

GMK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJDqG2_j2iQ

My thoughts are:

  • The PCB works as a flex enhancer. I poop you not, the flex in this thing is marvelous to the point that if you press enough in some areas you can hear the PCB hit the bottom of the case
  • It also works as a sound enhancer. As you guys can hear from the sound tests, a mere TOFU sounds like a top-mount keyboard. Except in two keys: TAB and ENTER. Nothing that can be done here, since they are exactly where the screws are. They don't sound bad -- in fact they sound like a top mount does when you have a fixing point right above a key -- but you can definitely hear a sound difference in these keys. The sound and feel is very uniform all throughout the rest of the keyboard.
  • To be quite fair, this all just makes sense with a "level 4" Lasgweloth. Since the screw mounting points are removable, "level 4" is a 1.6mm version (it will be available in 1.2 and 1.0 too). If any other screws are included, specially bottom row ones, the case will make sound and there is no question about it. In this particular build, the PCB is held only by four screws -- the two lateral ones, below CAPS and ENTER, and the two ones next to those, below Q and P. Interestingly enough, these four points are almost simmetrical, meaning that when only these points are screwed, the pressure points on the PCB are uniform, which can explain the uniform sound.
  • The only downside of all this is that the PCB being quite fragile and being held by only four points is quite prone to breaking on the pressure points when you are making extreme force and putting some keycaps in. So to remove and put keycaps I'd recommend unscrewing the PCB and plate, swapping the keycaps, and then screwing them back again, so as to avoid breaking anything.

In conclusion, it works. I had never imagined a tray mount TOFU would sound amazing and feel flexy like this, and I'm quite proud of the results. There still are some things I want to do, though:

  • Test the same build with rubber o-rings isolating the PCB from the screws. I am really curious as to how this will make the PCB sound. I am waiting for decent stabs to come in before I do this, as the ones I have here (R1 C3s) are not good to say the least and feel bad and sound rattly. I'm not the best luber in this world, but goddam I had a hard time making these work.
  • Test the 1.2mm version. I refuse to test 1.0mm as it breaks quite easily. Then again, waiting for decent stabs to come in.
  • Put a foam inside the case to damp some metal sounds and make the build sound less hollow.

As far as PCB development goes, it's done. I will make the release and order the final GB units soon to ship them to the GB participants. As always, I will update you guys and give insights here.

Godspeed,
You friendly neighborhood PCB designer
« Last Edit: Mon, 28 September 2020, 09:38:32 by Gondolindrim »
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline PeppyToad

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Amazing work as always, Gondo. 1.2mm should prove very interesting.

Would there be any chance for this to be run on vendors in the future? Like DailyClack, NovelKeys, etc.

Offline Gondolindrim

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Amazing work as always, Gondo. 1.2mm should prove very interesting.

Would there be any chance for this to be run on vendors in the future? Like DailyClack, NovelKeys, etc.

It will be sold in CannonKeys and Prototypist.net
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline Chippy

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Can't wait for more updates on this project.
This and the swiss cheese keyboard is the next generation of keyboards

Offline Gondolindrim

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Can't wait for more updates on this project.

As I have communicated to the GB entrants, COVID delayed shippings have caught me right in a weak spot as everything from prototypes to components are taking months to arrive. Not only that the shortage of STM MCUs as of lately has struck me particularly hard as all my baords are based on it.

Tha being said, I was able to get a hold of 50 units and the final PCBs were sent to manufacture and should be en route to me by december.
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline Gondolindrim

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Ok guys, for everyone.

The final Lasgweloth units are being produced after CNY.

I urge the participants of the GB that have not received updates to either message me through gondolindrim@acheronproject.com or enter the Acheron Discord server to receive them.
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.