Author Topic: Layout experiment: Ortho/Angled halves/CP...... thing?  (Read 11888 times)

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Offline katotaka

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Layout experiment: Ortho/Angled halves/CP...... thing?
« on: Mon, 16 December 2019, 14:42:20 »
First of all please take a look at my previous creation: ApexPAD - FPS game optimized mechanical keypad......... and yeah, you guessed it, Apex Legends.

It is still serving its purpose very well to this day, I would still want some QoL improvements.

Since desk space is limited I would need to change from my main TKL(and numpad) every time I play FPS games, sometimes I would type but I couldn't if I'm not on Discord with my mates, plus changing keyboard wears out USB ports and cables, USB-C is durable but still...

Games aside, I'm leaning towards split ortho for the comfort it brings, but still want the utility of traditional layout when I work on other stuff, hotkeys of Photoshop, numpad for CAD etc.
......and I'm greedy, I'd want all that while still maintain about the size of TKL, so it inevitably borrows part of CP layout to be the do-it-all board.

While I was messing with KLE, I saw this post, oh yeah I'm totally copying it inspired ;D
All caps should be found in common keycap sets, or at least obtainable inexpensively.

So here it is:
231991-0

If my calculations are right the only non-common-104 caps are the 1.75 Shift, 1.5 Ctrl's and Alt's, but sort of common on newer keycap sets.

Case gotta be the same THICC CF plate with 3D printed top and bottom, in CF infused material as before.
Handwired using Postage board mini (didn't count but I think I have enough pins)

Offline nevin

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Re: Layout experiment: Ortho/Angled halves/CP...... thing?
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 16 December 2019, 16:47:08 »
some similar, some staggered, some otrho... but none with numpad
tgr alice
atreus
x-bows

similar idea for split columnar staggered AEKII
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=103804.new#new
Keeb.io Viterbi, Apple m0110, Apple m0120, Apple m0110a, Apple 658-4081, Apple M1242, Apple AEK II, MK96, GH60/Pure, Cherry g84-4100, Adesso AKP-220B, Magicforce 68

Offline katotaka

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Re: Layout experiment: Ortho/Angled halves/CP...... thing?
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 17 December 2019, 12:18:12 »
So this is the slightly modified layout for compactness and a bit better aesthetic.
Matrix uses 23 pins so I have two to spare (RGB? Caps/Num lock?)
CAD design next.
232005-0

Offline katotaka

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Re: Layout experiment: Ortho/Angled halves/CP...... thing?
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 18 December 2019, 23:38:58 »
Playing with plate / case design, since built-in palm rest felt so nice I gotta do it again.


232123-0
232125-1

Offline ScarletSwordfish

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Re: Layout experiment: Ortho/Angled halves/CP...... thing?
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 11:28:23 »
That case is looking cool. Do those joints articulate for adjustable tenting?

Offline katotaka

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Re: Layout experiment: Ortho/Angled halves/CP...... thing?
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 19 December 2019, 13:18:28 »
That case is looking cool. Do those joints articulate for adjustable tenting?

nope, for this project I'm building a single board
but at some stage I thought about making a right part to pair with the keypad

the top parts are cut into pieces to fit inside my 3D printer, decided to give them some style

Offline katotaka

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Re: Layout experiment: Ortho/Angled halves/CP...... thing?
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 27 December 2019, 08:02:12 »
Worked on the design some more, basically a T H I C C carbon fiber plate sandwiched between 3DP pieces, mounted with LOTS of screws and nuts :p
Thought about skipping the nuts and use heat set thread inserts, but that could be decided later
232442-0
232444-1


Also played around with tented concept, looks comfortable but might actually introduce some issue in use, like reaching a shortcut on the right side with left hand.
232446-2

Offline katotaka

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Re: Layout experiment: Ortho/Angled halves/CP...... thing?
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 09 February 2020, 13:44:33 »
"2D Printed" the plate layout to see if my fingers like it, surprised it get as big as current TKL+NP setup
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Left half compared to ApexPAD
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small test piece to fit plate mounted stab on THICC plate, gotta get 3mm thick carbon fiber plate CNC'd
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Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Layout experiment: Ortho/Angled halves/CP...... thing?
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 16 February 2020, 07:04:26 »
Looking good :thumb:

If you're looking for input I'd probably swap the 1.5 ctrl and alt for standard 1.25s to save you needing an extra kit for two caps in some sets, would also make it a straighter edge down the left side to better match the right.  You might even be able to take the extra point out to make the case sides the same?  Though maybe you need a bolt there...

Just thinking out loud and aesthetics are personal so if you like the stagger and asymmetrical look go for it.
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Offline deacon

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Re: Layout experiment: Ortho/Angled halves/CP...... thing?
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 16 February 2020, 15:48:27 »
That's a neat idea; it needs a name related to plate tectonics.

Offline nevin

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Re: Layout experiment: Ortho/Angled halves/CP...... thing?
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 16 February 2020, 15:55:16 »
name.... platonic.
"... even though it's platonic, you will fall in love."
Keeb.io Viterbi, Apple m0110, Apple m0120, Apple m0110a, Apple 658-4081, Apple M1242, Apple AEK II, MK96, GH60/Pure, Cherry g84-4100, Adesso AKP-220B, Magicforce 68

Offline katotaka

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Re: Layout experiment: Ortho/Angled halves/CP...... thing?
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 17 February 2020, 04:36:54 »
Looking good :thumb:

If you're looking for input I'd probably swap the 1.5 ctrl and alt for standard 1.25s to save you needing an extra kit for two caps in some sets, would also make it a straighter edge down the left side to better match the right.  You might even be able to take the extra point out to make the case sides the same?  Though maybe you need a bolt there...

Just thinking out loud and aesthetics are personal so if you like the stagger and asymmetrical look go for it.

You're right, this layout might need does need extra caps in some sets but I made sure they're common enough, if I did the math right the only non-standard 104 caps are:
1.5 Ctrl
1.5 Alt
1.75 Shift
1.0 numpad 0
but they exist in most recent sets to cover WKL and 65/75/1800 layouts, so I think those will be fine
BTW, the 2.0 NP0 and 2.75 Shift can be replaced by less common mini space bars

About the left Ctrl position:
Some people push Ctrl playing FPS games by laying the "base" of the small finger (instead of tapping with the tip) on a standard 104 layout, I'm one of those people and I found the staggered Ctrl helps on an ortho position since I don't have to twist my wrist, plus its current position mimics the distance and position from WASD on a standard 104.


The current case design gives me vibes of devices in dystopia cyberpunk movies and I kinda dig it ;D
Another reason is the case cover has to be chopped to fit my 3D printer, I might as well just go wild and give it some style, while the CF plate will be outsourced to a CNC vendor.
« Last Edit: Mon, 17 February 2020, 04:41:36 by katotaka »

Offline katotaka

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Re: Layout experiment: Ortho/Angled halves/CP...... thing?
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 13 March 2020, 06:37:31 »
Carbon fiber plate just came in!
237741-0

I'm excited, immediately slabbed a switch and a stab to test how my scallop concept works on a 3mm thick plate and they fit wonderfully!
237743-1

This time I'm using a new vendor, placed a bezel test piece on top to see if the geometries are true to my drawings, seems very decent so far.
237745-2

Offline nevin

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Re: Layout experiment: Ortho/Angled halves/CP...... thing?
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 13 March 2020, 07:08:03 »
nice!  :thumb:
Keeb.io Viterbi, Apple m0110, Apple m0120, Apple m0110a, Apple 658-4081, Apple M1242, Apple AEK II, MK96, GH60/Pure, Cherry g84-4100, Adesso AKP-220B, Magicforce 68

Offline katotaka

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Re: Layout experiment: Ortho/Angled halves/CP...... thing?
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 16 March 2020, 01:20:34 »
I must admit it was a dangerous move ordering CF plates without doing render first, so here it is......
237925-0

Offline katotaka

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Re: Layout experiment: Ortho/Angled halves/CP...... thing?
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 28 March 2020, 01:06:26 »
test fitting the 3DP parts and the CF plate

238752-0

Offline nevin

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Re: Layout experiment: Ortho/Angled halves/CP...... thing?
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 28 March 2020, 02:33:52 »
nice work! looks good!  :thumb:
Keeb.io Viterbi, Apple m0110, Apple m0120, Apple m0110a, Apple 658-4081, Apple M1242, Apple AEK II, MK96, GH60/Pure, Cherry g84-4100, Adesso AKP-220B, Magicforce 68

Offline absyrd

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Re: Layout experiment: Ortho/Angled halves/CP...... thing?
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 28 March 2020, 04:19:46 »
Dope! Keep the updates coming!
My wife I a also push her button . But now she have her button push by a different men. So I buy a keyboard a mechanicale, she a reliable like a Fiat.

Offline Nlight

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Re: Layout experiment: Ortho/Angled halves/CP...... thing?
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 28 March 2020, 08:54:14 »
Nice Job, I like how these kind of MS Natural-like keyboard sparks interest, they have been my favorite kind of all.

Yeah, you're right about this layout being sometimes a PITA for shortcuts with left hand, like for a Ctrl+Y. Having few additional keys on the left hand for shortcuts might compensate that, even though it seems a bit too late. You can still get around with a layer revolving around using that left hand Fn key in your firmware though.
« Last Edit: Sun, 29 March 2020, 05:18:35 by Nlight »

Offline katotaka

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Re: Layout experiment: Ortho/Angled halves/CP...... thing?
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 02 April 2020, 01:00:14 »
argh, major screw up - every plate mount stabs I could buy feel BAD

now going for 2U amoeba PCBs and PCB stabs.........

Offline katotaka

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Re: Layout experiment: Ortho/Angled halves/CP...... thing?
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 09 April 2020, 11:23:56 »
2U amoeba arrived, wiring schematic finished, next: actual soldering bend 90 diodes

Offline katotaka

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Re: Layout experiment: Ortho/Angled halves/CP...... thing?
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 14 April 2020, 07:18:23 »
since the use of Amoeba PCB was not intended I did not account for spacing
PCBs for Enter and R Shift are too close together
had to hack a bit off one of them to fit
239864-0
239866-1

Row diodes (yeah I knew the NP plus was in wrong direction and it's already fixed :P )
239868-2

and started column wires
239870-3

Offline katotaka

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Re: Layout experiment: Ortho/Angled halves/CP...... thing?
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 18 April 2020, 16:47:39 »
So this is finished, already typing on it for this comment, still have some slight code issue about the LED indicators but it will work for now.

Originally opted for tons of RGB LEDs but the unplanned use of 2U amoeba PCBs are blocking them, plus the controller seems struggling to power them all (OG layout has 34 LEDs), so I went for the caps/num lock indicators only.

Still need some sticky tape backed rubber feet/pad but yeah, I'm happy so far.



Zilent V2 x83, lubed w/ GPL205g0
Postage Board Mini
3mm THICC carbon fiber plate
3D printed top/bottom bezel/case in carbon fiber infused PETG material
Generic (Cherry?) 2U PCB stabs x7
EnjoyPBT doubleshot ABS caps (OEM profile) in Sky Dolch colors from KBDFans

Offline nevin

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Re: Layout experiment: Ortho/Angled halves/CP...... thing?
« Reply #23 on: Sat, 18 April 2020, 18:45:06 »
looks great! love the look & shape of it.
Keeb.io Viterbi, Apple m0110, Apple m0120, Apple m0110a, Apple 658-4081, Apple M1242, Apple AEK II, MK96, GH60/Pure, Cherry g84-4100, Adesso AKP-220B, Magicforce 68

Offline funderburker

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Re: Layout experiment: Ortho/Angled halves/CP...... thing?
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 20 April 2020, 14:16:59 »
Very nice!  :thumb:
Keyboard design by Skepur

My boards: TMO50 FE:06 | LAGOM Groda-T | TMOv2 R1 prototype | Onyx FRL TKL prototype | Stege TKL prototype | Ellipse prototype | Cyberstar