Goldtouch V2 Gets No Love?

[Gerk]

It's funny, I haven't been here for a while now (pretty much since I found my almost ideal keyboard).  I switched to it pretty much exclusively and I think it's absolutely fantastic, but no one gives them any mention here at all.  Is it because they are not mechanical switches but rubber domes?  Topres seem to get a lot of love here and they are rubber domes ... but no one except for me (and I think Sordna once) talks about the Goldtouch V2 keyboards at all.

They are super adjustable both height and splay wise, the rubber domes actually feel good -- there's a clear actuation point, they stand the test of time (I'm hard as hell on boards and used to go through an MS 4k in < 6 months).  I've been using my pair of Goldtouch V2's for well over a year now and they still feel pretty much new.  There's hardly even any keycap wear ... the layout is very well thought out, the size is perfect for me and the fact that you can change the splay and the angle (which IMHO is incredibly important for RSI sufferers) seals the deal.

So is it non-mechanical switch snobbery?  Or is it something else that makes people not seem to even care about these or think they are a viable option?  I'm just curious.  Coming from someone who has had years of RSI issues and tried the majority of the "ergonomic" keyboard offerings out there this is the only board that really "works" for me, and aside from the Ergo-dox and a few of the more exotic ones I think I've tried pretty much everything out there.

Just saying ... if anyone is looking for something that's adjustable, affordable and feels great you should all really give these a shot.

http://www.goldtouch.com/p-2-goldtouch-v2-adjustable-comfort-keyboard-pc-mac-compatible-usb.aspx

[Gerk]

Also wanted to mention that anyone coming from MS 4k type boards will probably settle into these without issues at all, layout wise you can set them up so that they are pretty similar in terms of the main alpha-numeric keys except the keys don't suck   And size wise these things are basically the size of a standard tenkeyless but with a nicer layout, much less movement required for the commonly used keys (like the arrow keys).

Most of my other boards (listed in my sig) are collecting dust or hooked up to servers and don't get much if any usage, and I sold off a bunch of the other more expensive ones that I bought over the years of trying to find my ideal board (Topres, Kinesis, etc).  If you're like me and the Kinesis is pretty much totally the opposite of comfortable do yourself a favor and try out one of these ... I paid less for a brand new Goldtouch V2 board than I did for a set of Topre keycaps!

[hoggy]

I've had several v1s (gave them away to people who needed them more), great keyboards.  Haven't tried the v2 yet - they look pretty good, though.

[hashbaz]

V1s are common at my workplace.  I think they're great.  But I do still prefer the feel of mechanical switches, and the layout of the Kinesis.

[Gerk]

The V2 key feel is much better than the V1's.  I'm just so surprised that no one ever seems to recommend them in terms of an ergonomic layout, they are honestly the best ergo layout for my usage, all the important keys are still in the same places and all the auxiliary keys are well thought out and easy to get at as required.

[davkol]

I still have a few Goldtouch Foreign Layout keyboards in the closet. They're solid, the tenting is nice, and so is lack of numpad (at least for me, my dad missed it)... I like the super light (under 40g!) rubber dome as well. However, what's the point, when there's ErgoDox?

[DasHHKBProM]

I think the goldtouchv2 has a very nice feel. They offer them free at my work for ergo accommodations.
fak that oem dell keyboard thats also provided free to new work stations....lol


IMHO its right up there with my daily driver hhpro in terms of feel, sound, and sturdy key movement. ( in comparison with my experience using cherry keys which move side to side in a wobbly manner).

[Gerk]

I still have a few Goldtouch Foreign Layout keyboards in the closet. They're solid, the tenting is nice, and so is lack of numpad (at least for me, my dad missed it)... I like the super light (under 40g!) rubber dome as well. However, what's the point, when there's ErgoDox?

Let's see .. ErgoDox ... expensive, non-standard layout, not enough keys, thumb clusters, not able to tent without help, not able to splay without help, not able to lock for either tent or splay.  Yep that about does it for me.  For ~$100 it's pretty hard to go wrong with the Goldtouch IMHO.  And you're right with the light keypress ... it's definitely softer than even my cherry red boards and there's still a definite actuation point, I can type on these things without bottoming out at all and it took little to no time to get used to it.  They are literally a life-saver for me, nothing else solved my issues and since changing to these I haven't had any more issues at all -- especially because I can change the angles once a week or so.  Bye-bye RSI.

Numpad is there the same as almost any TKL board, you just have to use the Numlock key and then right hand numberpad works from 789 and down if you really need to enter numbers like that.  I'm not an accountant and I don't live in spreadsheets entering numbers all day so I'm totally fine with using the top number row personally.  I never use the numpad option, in fact the other day I inadvertently turned it on and was going WTF?!? as I was seeing numbers while typing ... took me a minute to clue in.  DOH.

[davkol]

Let's see .. ErgoDox ... expensive (...) For ~$100 it's pretty hard to go wrong with the Goldtouch IMHO.

Sort of. MOZ built his for about $150 IIRC. Sure, I paid about $300. However, if I want to get a new goldtouch, I have to import it as well, and that's either about $100 at eBay, or £140 if bought from The Keyboard Company... add VAT and shipping. That's expensive, considering it's a rubber dome with ABS keycaps and hardware QWERTY only. I prefer typematrix in that price range.

non-standard layout, not enough keys, thumb clusters,

Thanks for listing the advantages. 

not able to tent without help, not able to splay without help, not able to lock for either tent or splay.

Yep, it's a DIY kit. That's true.

On the other hand, when I got a pack of goldtouches for my family and friends, two out of ten came with a broken lever, and there was no way to repair it.

Numpad is there the same as almost any TKL board, you just have to use the Numlock key and then right hand numberpad works from 789 and down if you really need to enter numbers like that.  I'm not an accountant and I don't live in spreadsheets entering numbers all day so I'm totally fine with using the top number row personally.  I never use the numpad option, in fact the other day I inadvertently turned it on and was going WTF?!? as I was seeing numbers while typing ... took me a minute to clue in.  DOH.

Well, that's the problem. I gave the keyboard to two family members... and both of them returned it after less than a week mostly because of no dedicated numpad. For the record, neither of them is an accountant–in fact, one is a physician, the other one a biologist.

If I went insane and wanted to stay with staggered QWERTY, I'd hunt down the MS Natural Keyboard clones such as LiteOn SK-6000, which I mentioned in the other thread, because of price and actually "standard" layout.

[vivalarevolución]

I had a Goldtouch.  Got rid of it because I did not like the small right shift and small right modifiers.  I also prefer the non-staggered layout (except on the nirvana of buckling spring).

The Goldtouch has a very light touch for a rubber dome, great adjustability, and compact layout.  Not a bad board.  One major dislike for me was the lack of palm rests.  I preferred the Kinesis Freestyle because of that shortcoming.

Also, I knew "davkol" would chime in with this thread.  He promotes the Goldtouch on many ergo threads.  And rightfully so!

[Gerk]

I don't have the hate of rubber domes that lots of people here seem to have.  For me $100 for a keyboard that is a perfect match for my ergo needs is not a big deal.  Like I said previously I think it cost me more than that for a set of Topre keycaps.

With the Ergodox you also have to figure in the time and effort it takes to source the parts, assemble, etc, and that all adds up for me too.

As for listing the advantages/disadvantages one person's advantage is another's disadvantage, and we just proved it.  I have other boards that are non-standard layout (and have had others as well) and it just doesn't work for me.  30+ years working with a standard layout is not something my brain is willing to let go on, and I'm a coder ... so I touch type almost all of the "extra" non-numerical keys ... so them not being in the "right" spot is a deal breaker for me.  I gave it a good try with a couple of boards that had alternate layouts for these keys and it just never worked for me (TECK and Kinesis).

I wasn't a fan of the TypeMatrix -- I didn't own one personally but did try a buddy's.  Again I think it comes down to old dog, new tricks.  My fingers have been typing staggered for so long going to a fixed grid really messed me up, same with the inverted keywells on the Kinesis (my hands/fingers really just don't work like that).   So for me, again, the Goldtouch is perfect.  Would I like it better with better switches?  Probably.  Is it a deal breaker?  Absolutely not.  As long as I can type comfortably all day every day and keep getting paid I'm a happy camper, and I suspect other RSI sufferers are in the same boat as me, which is why I started this thread just to make sure that other people looking here for ergo keyboard information (the main reason I first stumbled into this forum) know about them.  I don't even want to think of the amount of $$ I have spent on keyboards over the years, just to find out that a relatively low tech and inexpensive board with crappy rubber domes was what I was looking for all this time LOL.  Also good to know for the users that don't have the budget to spend trying out lots of stuff that there may be cheap-ish alternatives for them to try.  While they might not have mechanical keys and awesome keycap options it's getting the job done for me and I'm still paying the bills

[kurplop]

I wonder, if Gerk was around a year and a half ago proclaiming the virtues of the V2, would I have bought one, been satisfied with it, and saved a lot of money and time not buying a half a dozen keyboards since then? 

Sometimes I think we lose perspective and focus on the tool instead of what we can do with it.

Many people come to this site, not looking for a new hobby but a quick, inexpensive solution to their keyboard discomfort woes. I think we owe it to them to offer a practical alternative such as the V2 without condemning it because it has rubber domes and a staggered layout.

As for me, I'm enjoying my ErgoDox and think it has many superior features. I like that the thumbs take some of the load off the pinky fingers and its programability. It has however made using other keyboards more difficult for me to use and I can see why it would not appeal to everyone.

It's good to have you back Gerk, if for nothing else than to bring balance to the ergo story.

[Gerk]

Oh one other thing with the Goldtouch re: importing.  I'm in Canada and this is one of the _only_ ergo keyboards that I can easily get within Canada that I don't have to import (and pay additional duty, brokerage, etc on).  That's just another thing that made it a sweet deal for me.  On the flipside if I bought from somewhere like Elite keyboards (and I have in the past) I paid big shipping, duty, etc.  It ended up costing me almost as much as the board was worth in additional fees.  Not their fault ... just the way it is.

[Gerk]

I wonder, if Gerk was around a year and a half ago proclaiming the virtues of the V2, would I have bought one, been satisfied with it, and saved a lot of money and time not buying a half a dozen keyboards since then? 

Sometimes I think we lose perspective and focus on the tool instead of what we can do with it.

Many people come to this site, not looking for a new hobby but a quick, inexpensive solution to their keyboard discomfort woes. I think we owe it to them to offer a practical alternative such as the V2 without condemning it because it has rubber domes and a staggered layout.

As for me, I'm enjoying my ErgoDox and think it has many superior features. I like that the thumbs take some of the load off the pinky fingers and its programability. It has however made using other keyboards more difficult for me to use and I can see why it would not appeal to everyone.

It's good to have you back Gerk, if for nothing else than to bring balance to the ergo story.

Yep exactly my thoughts as well ... had I read about them in an even slightly positive manner way back when I may have also saved myself a lot of $$ over the years   I didn't really want a new hobby, but ended up falling into that hehe.

[davkol]

Again I think it comes down to old dog, new tricks.

That's about right, one has start from scratch with columnar layout, use a completely different technique.

Oh one other thing with the Goldtouch re: importing.  I'm in Canada and this is one of the _only_ ergo keyboards that I can easily get within Canada that I don't have to import (and pay additional duty, brokerage, etc on).  That's just another thing that made it a sweet deal for me.  On the flipside if I bought from somewhere like Elite keyboards (and I have in the past) I paid big shipping, duty, etc.  It ended up costing me almost as much as the board was worth in additional fees.  Not their fault ... just the way it is.

Doesn't the company behind Truly Ergonomic reside in Canada?

[Oobly]

...

I have other boards that are non-standard layout (and have had others as well) and it just doesn't work for me.  30+ years working with a standard layout is not something my brain is willing to let go on, and I'm a coder ... so I touch type almost all of the "extra" non-numerical keys ... so them not being in the "right" spot is a deal breaker for me.  I gave it a good try with a couple of boards that had alternate layouts for these keys and it just never worked for me (TECK and Kinesis).
...

This doesn't gel for me. The Goldtouch has a very 'non-standard layout' for the  '"extra" non-numerical keys'. I would think the LiteOn SK-6000 mentioned by Davkol would be a better option.

As I see it:

Pros: Relatively affordable, can be tented and splayed easily and locked in place.

Cons: Non-standard layout (function keys, edit keys, arrows, no numpad), relatively poor build quality (at least of the stands), non-mechanical switches.

I would add a few personal Cons: No thumb clusters, too many keys (I prefer layers so I don't have to move my hands so much), staggered layout (I prefer columnar, vertical stagger to match my natural finger placement and movement), qwerty, non-programmable.

I must admit, I am in a fortunate situation. I will soon have my own properly ergonomic custom board designed for my own hands with my favourite mechanical switches (and my own character layout based on AdNW / BU-Teck). I don't want a small improvement over "standard" boards. I want a board that doesn't have all the old keyboard design baggage and don't mind learning a new set of muscle memory to get, because I know how much better it will be for me in the long run.

Everyone has a different balance between "good enough" and "too much effort". I am on one extreme and acknowledge it. This board appears to be for people almost on the opposite extreme, although I think there are better options for that (the LiteOn, MS Natural or slightly less, the Truly Ergonomic).

So, as I see it, this board is a good option for those who want more tenting / splaying options than the boards mentioned above and don't mind non-standard layouts for non-alpha keys (and lack of a numpad), but want standard staggered alpha keys. Personally I would think that's a relatively small market, but I agree that it should be visible for those who match.

-P.S. Is that a Stingray 5 in your avatar? I play an Ibanez SR506 myself

[Gerk]

Doesn't the company behind Truly Ergonomic reside in Canada?

Yep they are.  I didn't have to import that one either, just wait for years (I pre-ordered very early in the game and went through the whole missed ship date/promised date/lack of communication fiasco).

This doesn't gel for me. The Goldtouch has a very 'non-standard layout' for the  '"extra" non-numerical keys'. I would think the LiteOn SK-6000 mentioned by Davkol would be a better option.

As I see it:

Pros: Relatively affordable, can be tented and splayed easily and locked in place.

Cons: Non-standard layout (function keys, edit keys, arrows, no numpad), relatively poor build quality (at least of the stands), non-mechanical switches.

I would add a few personal Cons: No thumb clusters, too many keys (I prefer layers so I don't have to move my hands so much), staggered layout (I prefer columnar, vertical stagger to match my natural finger placement and movement), qwerty, non-programmable.

I must admit, I am in a fortunate situation. I will soon have my own properly ergonomic custom board designed for my own hands with my favourite mechanical switches (and my own character layout based on AdNW / BU-Teck). I don't want a small improvement over "standard" boards. I want a board that doesn't have all the old keyboard design baggage and don't mind learning a new set of muscle memory to get, because I know how much better it will be for me in the long run.

Everyone has a different balance between "good enough" and "too much effort". I am on one extreme and acknowledge it. This board appears to be for people almost on the opposite extreme, although I think there are better options for that (the LiteOn, MS Natural or slightly less, the Truly Ergonomic).

So, as I see it, this board is a good option for those who want more tenting / splaying options than the boards mentioned above and don't mind non-standard layouts for non-alpha keys (and lack of a numpad), but want standard staggered alpha keys. Personally I would think that's a relatively small market, but I agree that it should be visible for those who match.

-P.S. Is that a Stingray 5 in your avatar? I play an Ibanez SR506 myself

For the non-alpha numeric keys I was referring to the things like these:  -=_+[]{}\|;':",.<>/? ... basically they keys programmers use more than just about anything else.  Not having them on the right side of jkl; is a deal breaker for me on a keyboard.

As for the better options I will have to disagree with those.  The Truly Ergonomic again has moved around all the "coder" keys so that's out for me, the MS Natural is too huge which means too much travel to the mouse, not to mention the horrible key travels (that's always been my problem with the MS natural/ergo boards, not the rubber domes themselves but the fact that the keys bind up while pressing them after they get any kind of wear) and I think I tried the LiteOn once a long time ago and it's the same size as the MS natural/ergo boards, meaning too much hand travel to the mouse.  Also I have to re-iterate that the tent/splay option is the most important function of this board to me, so that also rules out pretty much everything listed previously.  If I don't change up the angles on things on a regular basis it doesn't matter what I type on, the pain comes back.  To me that's the first and foremost consideration when talking ergonomics, everything else is a distant second and just a "feel" thing, but relieving the pain is a requirement that none of those other boards do for me any longer.

Lastly, in terms of mechanical switches, I have to agree with a previous poster in that most of the cherry based stuff feels wobbly to me (in terms of movement off axis while you are depressing the key), especially when you put them on an angle/splay.  I like the feel of the actuation of them but the definitely move around a fair bit.  Same with lots (but not all) Alps based stuff.

And yes that's a Stingray 5 in my avatar   I also own and play about 7 other basses.

This just goes to show that ergonomics are all in the hands on the person who needs it

[Oobly]

...

This just goes to show that ergonomics are all in the hands on the person who needs it

+1

[natas206]

Ergo Canada sells just about every Ergo Keyboard there is - http://ergocanada.com/ec_home/products/keyboards.html

[SonOfSonOfSpock]

I definitely agree that ergonomics is all about what works for you. I went through about a dozen mice/pointing devices before I found something that i found comfortable. Still trying out keyboards, but I've found that mechanical keyboards (and better posture) work better for me than split membrane keyboards like the Goldtouch or Kinesis Freestyle.

When I first started trying to find a better keyboard, I found this very helpful: http://ergonomicinfo.com/the-great-big-guide-to-ergonomic-keyboards/.

[Gerk]

Ergo Canada sells just about every Ergo Keyboard there is - http://ergocanada.com/ec_home/products/keyboards.html

That's exactly where my Goldtouch V2's came from

[angelnose]

Hi everybody, this is my first post.
And I need some guidance.

Recently I got a Goldtouch v2 and i am still in the trial period. Before the Goldtouch I tried a CM rapid with brown switches.
Rapid did not meet my ergonomic needs which come before the feel; I need to alleviate wrist pain. After reading comments on it, mostly from Gerk, I decided that it is Goldtouch that might meet my needs best. I like its one piece but split design; it is very stable. I did want a standard layout. The key placement is okay too I guess, I can adapt. About the keys, I liked the feel of the keys on Rapid better but these are very soft which is good. And this seller gives 2 years of warranty.

My only concern is about the claimed fluctuating quality of the Goldtouch keyboards which I learned about reading the forums. On my Goldtouch, feel of the keys change a bit through the board. Some are very smooth, but some have a bit more resistance as if they have more friction. They sound different too.

Is this something which I should consider while deciding whether to keep it or return it? What is your experience?

It seems the only other option for me is Matias Ergo Pro. Kinesis freestyle is very static, no continuous adjustment as in Goldtouch.
But the need to use tripods with ergo pro to achieve Goldtouch's continuous adjustment is a put off. And having to pay 100 euros more...

[natas206]

It seems the only other option for me is Matias Ergo Pro. Kinesis freestyle is very static, no continuous adjustment as in Goldtouch.
But the need to use tripods with ergo pro to achieve Goldtouch's continuous adjustment is a put off. And having to pay 100 euros more...

What do you mean by static? The Freestyle2 is fully adjustable. It can do everything the Goldtouch can do plus more since it can be fully separated:




PC, Mac versions available (as well as Bluetooth).

Plus it doesn't have the design flaw the Goldtouch has, which for some reason they use the Num Lock key to activate the embedded 10-key (instead of an internal Fn key). The reason this is a problem is a lot of people actually like to use a separate USB 10-keypads (either for using with their left hand, or perhaps they just don't like using an embedded 10-key on their keyboard). Well, 10-keypads usually require Num Lock to be on (if it's a true 10-key) meaning if you have Num Lock turned on on your 10-keypad, the Goldtouch's embedded 10-key on the right hand side of the keyboard is then enabled lol. Not sure what they were thinking there.

[rsantos97]

I just ordered one tonight off Amazon to use while I wait for my Matias Ergo Pro to ship some time in June.

[rsantos97]

I just ordered one tonight off Amazon to use while I wait for my Matias Ergo Pro to ship some time in June.

Damn it, they sent me the Go2 instead of the normal v2.  Even though they sent me a more expensive model I still wanted the other one. This one has chicklet keys instead of the standard keys and it is Bluetooth.

[Doyniish]

My GoldTouch gets plenty of love! Still my favorite keyboard to use!