Hand Wiring or PCB?

[Saf_Rimons]

Me and my friends have been looking into building each our own custom 40% but haven't decided on what we want do for wiring. I was thinking handwiring because I'm am trying to design my own custom layout for the keys which I don't think I can design a PCB for easily. I've looked into designing one but they can be expensive, and I know that hand wiring is tough but all in all I think it is the better option. Any ideas of comments? I'm knew to the whole process so anything will help thanks.

[jdcarpe]

What is your goal with the project? Are you just making a one-off for yourself, or do you plan to get the community involved and perhaps sell a few units?

If you are just making a one-off design for yourself, that you don't really think will have much broader appeal beyond existing designs, then the most logical way to undertake the project is to design a plate, have it cut or machined, and hand wire the switches. That was my purpose in creating this thread: Prototyping New Keyboard Designs (Using Plate Mounting and Direct Wiring).

I recommend using 1.5mm (0.062") thickness steel for your plate, and (if hand wiring the matrix) making the holes stock Cherry spec squares, that is to say no notches for switch-top opening).

Lastly, what is your goal with regard to layout? Are you familiar with my JD40 and JD45 designs? I am guessing that they are not suitable for your purposes, for whatever reason.

[nandop]

Handwriting guide (try to understand the matrix and diodes): http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/brownfox-step-by-step-t6050.html

Firmware building guide: http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/how-to-build-your-very-own-keyboard-firmware-t7177.html

Hand wiring is time consuming, and pcbs are expensive. However, after you are done with handwiring and troubleshooting everything or/and realizing that you've reverted your diodes twice, the pcb no longer seems so expensive. $50 is very reasonable.

[jdcarpe]

...the pcb no longer seems so expensive. $50 is very reasonable.

$50 would be reasonable, if you could get one for that price. With most fabs, you are looking at between $150-250 minimum, even for only a few PCBs. Small PCBs (2"x2") can be made cheaply, but when you are talking about a 9" x 3" PCB, you do run into some higher tooling costs.

For a one-off plate, I would recommend Pololu.com, as they are responsive to people who want to have a prototype or one-off plate laser cut. Most metal shops won't even talk to you for such a small order. The price for a one-off plate will still be almost $100 at this size, so you have to decide where your money is better spent.

[Saf_Rimons]

This is probably the layout I plan on going with, it's going to be one for me, not sure if people will want to buy a board like this.

[jacobolus]

Interesting design. Note that your spacebars are not close to symmetrically arranged relative to the home row. That is, your left thumb probably naturally falls right on the left spacebar there, but your right thumb probably ends up pretty near the edge between the right spacebar and the middle key. (Perhaps that’s what you want though.) Are you really planning to use a 1.75u key for question mark? Also interesting. Don’t think I’ve seen that before. :-)

[Saf_Rimons]

Yeah this is my first model layout that I have been working on... Just something to go off of for starters. I have been looking into other layouts but haven't satisfied with anything yet. Thanks for the feedback! I will try and change the ? key, just not sure where to go with it yet.

[jdcarpe]

A 5x15 layout is definitely a 60%, not 40%. 

So many people get stuck in this idea that they need dedicated arrow keys. Have you tried another 60% with cursor arrows on a function layer? Give it a try...you might find that it's usable or you even like it. I find if I need dedicated cursor arrows, I really prefer a TKL (80%) or full size keyboard, anyway.

[yicaoyimu]

For prototyping purpose, wouldn't accrylic plate cost less than steel plate? What's the advantage of steel plate in this case? Durability?

[dorkvader]

A 5x15 layout is definitely a 60%, not 40%. 

So many people get stuck in this idea that they need dedicated arrow keys. Have you tried another 60% with cursor arrows on a function layer? Give it a try...you might find that it's usable or you even like it. I find if I need dedicated cursor arrows, I really prefer a TKL (80%) or full size keyboard, anyway.

yeah every time I try to use my poker II instead of my race it's like beating my face against a wall trying to navigate through things. I con only put up with that for like a day. I need my arrowkeys and navigation keys.

My preferred layout is lightsaver / redscarf.

---
On topic: I think that's a good design. Split spacebar is crucial. Personally my thumb lands on different places depending on how I'm typing that day. I'm trying to get better though.

steel plate has many advantages to acrylic plate. IT's durable, etc. Acrylic thin enough to fit an MX switch is way to floppy to be useful and they don't clip in properly to thicker acrylic. It might work for a PCB-mount KB but absolutely not for direct wire.

[Saf_Rimons]

A 5x15 layout is definitely a 60%, not 40%. 

So many people get stuck in this idea that they need dedicated arrow keys. Have you tried another 60% with cursor arrows on a function layer? Give it a try...you might find that it's usable or you even like it. I find if I need dedicated cursor arrows, I really prefer a TKL (80%) or full size keyboard, anyway.

Yeah I am still very new to the whole DIY thing but it will be worth it when I have a board to call my own. I liked the arrow keys and haven't thought much about what I would replace them with since I never use the right ctrl or alt.

[jacobolus]

steel plate has many advantages to acrylic plate. IT's durable, etc. Acrylic thin enough to fit an MX switch is way to floppy to be useful and they don't clip in properly to thicker acrylic. It might work for a PCB-mount KB but absolutely not for direct wire.

If using laser-cut acrylic for hand wiring, I recommend using two sheets of acrylic, one 1/16" (or 1.5mm) with holes cut for switches to clip into, and one 1/8–1/4" (3.5–7mm), or possibly even thicker, underneath with holes cut slightly larger. Screw those two together and you get something that’s much more rigid than a 1/16" acrylic sheet alone.

[jdcarpe]

steel plate has many advantages to acrylic plate. IT's durable, etc. Acrylic thin enough to fit an MX switch is way to floppy to be useful and they don't clip in properly to thicker acrylic. It might work for a PCB-mount KB but absolutely not for direct wire.

If using laser-cut acrylic for hand wiring, I recommend using two sheets of acrylic, one 1/16" (or 1.5mm) with holes cut for switches to clip into, and one 1/8�1/4" (3.5�7mm), or possibly even thicker, underneath with holes cut slightly larger. Screw those two together and you get something that�s much more rigid than a 1/16" acrylic sheet alone.

That's a good idea. I don't think I've ever seen that done in person. It just sounds pretty complicated.

You could alternatively just glue the switches into 5mm thick acrylic, or simply make the plate from 1.5mm thick metal.

[jacobolus]

If using laser-cut acrylic for hand wiring, I recommend using two sheets of acrylic, one 1/16" (or 1.5mm) with holes cut for switches to clip into, and one 1/8–1/4" (3.5–7mm), or possibly even thicker, underneath with holes cut slightly larger. Screw those two together and you get something that’s much more rigid than a 1/16" acrylic sheet alone.

That's a good idea. I don't think I've ever seen that done in person. It just sounds pretty complicated.

It’s very easy, especially if you can directly use the laser cutter yourself. If ordering from a shop, I guess the order is a bit trickier than just one plate, since you need to make sure they run the right file on the right pieces of acrylic.

If you want to make a lister-style layered-acrylic case, then it’s basically the same amount of effort as what you’d do anyway.

[Lubed Up Slug]

Just to chime in on the original question, I think you should try attempting it hand wired because with a layout like that you will need to make your own PCB which might not work the first time around and it will end up taking a lot of time and money. With hand wiring you spend a few hours (guess it depends on your soldering skills) soldering together some connections and then you have to edit some firmware and you are done in terms of getting the keyboard part to work. There is a pretty helpful step by step guide on how to edit the firmware in case you are worried.