Author Topic: New Artisan & Vendor Policies  (Read 12735 times)

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Offline user 18

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New Artisan & Vendor Policies
« on: Tue, 26 April 2016, 16:10:00 »
For several years, Geekhack has provided designated spaces for artisans and vendors to communicate with the community. More recently, we have seen a number of community efforts and smaller vendors that have found specific niches. In an effort to accommodate the rising number of vendors and artisans, we have made some changes to how these users are handled on geekhack. The full post outlining the changes can be found here, but the key points are:
  • The difference between artisans and vendors has been made clearer.
  • The vendor subforum will be opened up similar to the artisan services area, so smaller vendors can have space without needing their own subforum. Creating new threads in this area requires vendor status.
  • The application process for formal status as an artisan or vendor, and the separate application process for an artisan or vendor subfoum are outlined.
  • The responsibilities of an artisan or vendor are discussed, including use of a feedback thread.
In addition to the changes to the artisan and vendor areas, we are introducing dedicated feedback subfora, one for artisans and one for vendors. Each vendor and artisan will be required to create a feedback thread in the appropriate area, and feedback from these threads will be used to guide the vendor review process.

Finally, in conjunction with this change, we will be communicating with all current artisans and vendors. Subfora which are no longer active may be archived (made read-only and moved out of the vendor area), and small vendor subfora may have their threads moved into the general vendor area. We will also be communicating specifically with current artisans which would be classified as vendors under the new definitions.

Please feel free to ask any questions below, or send me a PM for a more in-depth discussion. If you are experiencing any issues with the new areas of the site, please let us know below.
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Offline pwade3

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Re: New Artisan & Vendor Policies
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 26 April 2016, 16:24:16 »
This sounds like a really good idea, hopefully it can help users decide who they trust their money with, with regards to vendors who run group buys and stuff like that.

If the incentive for negative feedback is revoking status, is there any sort of incentive for positive feedback, so happy users feel obliged to post as well?

Offline user 18

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Re: New Artisan & Vendor Policies
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 26 April 2016, 16:46:21 »
If the incentive for negative feedback is revoking status, is there any sort of incentive for positive feedback, so happy users feel obliged to post as well?

There isn't a specific incentive, no. We're hoping that leaving feedback will be easy enough for members that those who have positive experiences will take a moment to leave feedback out of the goodness of their heart. I'm sure any artisan or vendor would appreciate hearing how much they've helped someone.

My personal expectation would be that even if only a small portion of those who feel positively actually post feedback, the majority of interactions should be positive, resulting in a significant proportion of feedback being positive. If the majority of feedback is negative, it might be seen as an indication that we need to do a review, at which time the incentive for positive feedback would be helping an artisan or vendor to keep their status.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: New Artisan & Vendor Policies
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 26 April 2016, 21:50:19 »
It says "a user should send a PM to the moderation team account" - perhaps a link to that account (or even to a new PM to that account) would be nice.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But thatís incorrect. Itís in HHKBís slogan, but when Americaís cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline Photekq

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Re: New Artisan & Vendor Policies
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 26 April 2016, 21:50:55 »
 :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: New Artisan & Vendor Policies
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 26 April 2016, 22:05:06 »
With all these changes will people assume geekhack is endorsing said vendors and artisans and they can trust them all with there money??

Perhaps a disclaimer should be stickied as I don't think most people bother to ready any of the TOS's.

Offline UsualSuspectXXX

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Re: New Artisan & Vendor Policies
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 26 April 2016, 22:32:25 »
It says "a user should send a PM to the moderation team account" - perhaps a link to that account (or even to a new PM to that account) would be nice.

A link or instructions on how to do this would be nice.

Offline rowdy

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Re: New Artisan & Vendor Policies
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 27 April 2016, 05:40:32 »
It says "a user should send a PM to the moderation team account" - perhaps a link to that account (or even to a new PM to that account) would be nice.

A link or instructions on how to do this would be nice.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=34190
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But thatís incorrect. Itís in HHKBís slogan, but when Americaís cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline user 18

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Re: New Artisan & Vendor Policies
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 27 April 2016, 13:30:39 »
It says "a user should send a PM to the moderation team account" - perhaps a link to that account (or even to a new PM to that account) would be nice.

A link or instructions on how to do this would be nice.

I forgot that regular users can't search the member list. I'll add a link in the appropriate locations :thumb:

With all these changes will people assume geekhack is endorsing said vendors and artisans and they can trust them all with there money??

Perhaps a disclaimer should be stickied as I don't think most people bother to ready any of the TOS's.

That's a good idea. I will discuss it with the other mods.
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Offline Puddsy

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Re: New Artisan & Vendor Policies
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 28 April 2016, 18:48:41 »
this has been needed for a long time

good changes

thanks mod squad
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Offline riotonthebay

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Re: New Artisan & Vendor Policies
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 29 April 2016, 09:55:25 »
Artisan feedback is entirely unnecessary. For makers that operate out of individual threads, this is akin to making me manage a separate feedback thread so I can post things in classifieds. For those with subforums, there already a ton of threads in which to provide feedback and this redundancy is unneeded. All we're going to see is people bandwagoning in one direction or another, either to curry favor or to bully without consequences (I'm giving feedback!).

Offline demik

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Re: New Artisan & Vendor Policies
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 29 April 2016, 11:44:14 »
This is just going to be another place to kiss ass in the hopes of getting something free. Totally unnecessary.
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Offline user 18

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Re: New Artisan & Vendor Policies
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 29 April 2016, 12:43:54 »
Artisan feedback is entirely unnecessary. For makers that operate out of individual threads, this is akin to making me manage a separate feedback thread so I can post things in classifieds. For those with subforums, there already a ton of threads in which to provide feedback and this redundancy is unneeded. All we're going to see is people bandwagoning in one direction or another, either to curry favor or to bully without consequences (I'm giving feedback!).

I see your point regarding those with individual threads. That's something we hadn't really thought of, but we're discussing it now.

For those with subforums, the point of this change was to separate the feedback from the artisan's subforum, where they have the ability to remove threads or posts, and also to give a central location where feedback for all the various artisans could be found. During development of this policy, we did consider just asking every artisan with a subforum to create a feedback thread, but felt that the benefits of a separate environment were enough to give it a try.

This is just going to be another place to kiss ass in the hopes of getting something free. Totally unnecessary.

I hope that won't be the case. The intent of these feedback areas is to discuss the performance and customer service of artisans and vendors, rather than to discuss designs, giveaways, etc. If people end up using this area inappropriately, we'll need to take another look at things, but hopefully it won't come to that.
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Offline riotonthebay

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Re: New Artisan & Vendor Policies
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 29 April 2016, 12:48:44 »
Artisan feedback is entirely unnecessary. For makers that operate out of individual threads, this is akin to making me manage a separate feedback thread so I can post things in classifieds. For those with subforums, there already a ton of threads in which to provide feedback and this redundancy is unneeded. All we're going to see is people bandwagoning in one direction or another, either to curry favor or to bully without consequences (I'm giving feedback!).

I see your point regarding those with individual threads. That's something we hadn't really thought of, but we're discussing it now.

For those with subforums, the point of this change was to separate the feedback from the artisan's subforum, where they have the ability to remove threads or posts, and also to give a central location where feedback for all the various artisans could be found. During development of this policy, we did consider just asking every artisan with a subforum to create a feedback thread, but felt that the benefits of a separate environment were enough to give it a try.

Sure, but mods can see stuff that's been removed, right? If folks are blatantly removing legitimate feedback, it can be reported to the mods and dealt with appropriately.

Offline user 18

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Re: New Artisan & Vendor Policies
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 29 April 2016, 12:59:28 »
Artisan feedback is entirely unnecessary. For makers that operate out of individual threads, this is akin to making me manage a separate feedback thread so I can post things in classifieds. For those with subforums, there already a ton of threads in which to provide feedback and this redundancy is unneeded. All we're going to see is people bandwagoning in one direction or another, either to curry favor or to bully without consequences (I'm giving feedback!).

I see your point regarding those with individual threads. That's something we hadn't really thought of, but we're discussing it now.

For those with subforums, the point of this change was to separate the feedback from the artisan's subforum, where they have the ability to remove threads or posts, and also to give a central location where feedback for all the various artisans could be found. During development of this policy, we did consider just asking every artisan with a subforum to create a feedback thread, but felt that the benefits of a separate environment were enough to give it a try.

Sure, but mods can see stuff that's been removed, right? If folks are blatantly removing legitimate feedback, it can be reported to the mods and dealt with appropriately.

We can see that something has been removed, but I can't tell what it is. Senior mods might be able to, they have a bit more access.

You're describing almost exactly the system we had proposed, right down to watching for people removing feedback (which realistically, we didn't expect to be an issue). This whole set of changes came out of the discussions in this thread, where users were largely in support of separate forums as a central location for feedback. In the end, that was a major factor in deciding which system we wanted to use. If it turns out that the system isn't working out, we will of course look into alternatives.
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Offline beehatch

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Re: New Artisan & Vendor Policies
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 29 April 2016, 14:15:03 »
Artisan feedback is entirely unnecessary. For makers that operate out of individual threads, this is akin to making me manage a separate feedback thread so I can post things in classifieds. For those with subforums, there already a ton of threads in which to provide feedback and this redundancy is unneeded. All we're going to see is people bandwagoning in one direction or another, either to curry favor or to bully without consequences (I'm giving feedback!).

I see your point regarding those with individual threads. That's something we hadn't really thought of, but we're discussing it now.

For those with subforums, the point of this change was to separate the feedback from the artisan's subforum, where they have the ability to remove threads or posts, and also to give a central location where feedback for all the various artisans could be found. During development of this policy, we did consider just asking every artisan with a subforum to create a feedback thread, but felt that the benefits of a separate environment were enough to give it a try.

This makes much more sense to me now  :thumb:

Offline Vittra

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Re: New Artisan & Vendor Policies
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 30 April 2016, 13:39:35 »
Have artisans/vendors been given a deadline for which they must adhere to the new rules - specifically the feedback thread creation?

I ask with reference to this currently active thread, as I suspect the artisan in this case will not adhere to creating said thread, due to their overall lack of activity and communication on the forum.
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Offline ghostjuggernaut

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Re: New Artisan & Vendor Policies
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 30 April 2016, 13:44:42 »
Have artisans/vendors been given a deadline for which they must adhere to the new rules - specifically the feedback thread creation?

I ask with reference to this currently active thread, as I suspect the artisan in this case will not adhere to creating said thread, due to their overall lack of activity and communication on the forum.
We have begun the process with Vendors, and have given them a deadline. We have not started with artisans yet, as vendors are a larger concern. Once things are ironed out with them, we will place more focus on the artisan sub forum.

Offline user 18

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Re: New Artisan & Vendor Policies
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 24 May 2016, 22:00:38 »
An update has been made to these policies. This change is intended to bring the Artisan Services section closer to where it was before these changes are made, and closer to its intended purpose.

Update May 24, 2016:

Clarified restrictions regarding the Artisan Services general section, and feedback threads for those members. Any member (excepting vendors) may post in Artisan Services; these artisans no longer will be asked to maintain a feedback thread, but may do so if they wish. Formal artisan status is now limited to artisans with a subforum. The process for applying for an artisan subforum has been clarified.
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Offline Photekq

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Re: New Artisan & Vendor Policies
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 24 May 2016, 22:07:28 »
More good moves. Thanks mods! :thumb:
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