Before buying an Apple Extended Keyboard... what to look out for.

[Astra Diesel]

Im trying to find a m0115, and from what I've read on lowendmac.com, these m0115's make a "click clock" sound when you type on them.

     What I'm confused about is that the m0115's are either pink or orange alps switches/sliders (depending on when it was produced). So won't that make them inaudible, but still tactile?

   Where can I find a white or blue alps slider keyboard. I'm trying to find a very loud, audible alps keyboard.

BTW, CVT tech support rep. Bob e-mailed me back saying that the Stellars and Primes do have BLACK alps with white plungers. (these aren't strongmans in disguise, are they?)

The IBM PC AT 84-key 's look nice. Do they have buckling spring or mechanical switch? clickykeyboards.com says that these have mechanical switches, so it makes the keys even MORE clickier than the Model M?

[xsphat]

I have old school Apple keyboards with pink and orange sliders, and new black Alps in my SMK85. They are all tactile, but the pinks don't click. The old orange and the new blacks click and you can hear the springs.

The most balls-out loud keyboard I have is the SMK85. (check out my review of it in the wiki, it's the first review. I even have a recording of it) My kid is ten weeks old, sleeps through the night, the vacuum, doing the dishes, etc., but the second I pull out the SMK85, he wakes up screaming. If you're into the sound, go black.

[iMav]

The IBM PC AT 84-key 's look nice. Do they have buckling spring or mechanical switch? clickykeyboards.com says that these have mechanical switches, so it makes the keys even MORE clickier than the Model M?

Buckling spring.

[fkeidjn]

The M0115 that I have has orange Alps, and the M3501 that I have has bright yellow Alps.  The Orange Alps doesn't have the rubber damper, thus making the keyboard louder when "floored."

[xsphat]

The Orange Alps doesn't have the rubber damper, thus making the keyboard louder when "floored."

So what are the yellow sliders like? What5 are the old blacks like?

[fkeidjn]

The yellow Alps has the rubber damper to prevent the clacking sound when "floored."  That's the only difference I was able to find from the orange Alps.

[madmaxmedia]

I think most all of the original Apple Extended Keyboards have orange sliders. I have 3 myself, and they all have orange.

Great keyboard, tactile with nice solid sound to them. It's a no-brainer if you're a Mac user like me (after you find a Griffin iMate). I found this forum while considering other alternatives, but since I use Macs most of the time, this was a best choice for me (and pretty cheap too.)

I see a lot of sleeker keyboards, but I actually kinda like the retro look (and weight).

[xsphat]

I like the retro keyboards too, I own several. But there is something to be said for a brand new keyboard you know you paid way too much for sitting at your desk waiting for you ...

[Astra Diesel]

Mmmm.... filco.....

Must have.....

[xsphat]

Mmmm.... filco.....

Must have.....

Go buy......

[madmaxmedia]

I like the retro keyboards too, I own several. But there is something to be said for a brand new keyboard you know you paid way too much for sitting at your desk waiting for you ...

To be honest, I would fallen prey to this temptation as well (why screw around with ADB adapters and such, I ended up having to buy 2 because I use Apple Extendeds at work and at home.) But there's not much out there that is Mac-specific, which I preferred.

The Matias Tactile Pro keyboards aren't nearly as good as the Apple Extended in build quality and feel/sound IMO.

I can of course take comfort in the fact that at some point 20 years ago, someone paid around $200 for my keyboard!! (and that's before you factor in inflation. )

[xsphat]

As far as new keyboards and their Mac-kindness (I'm also a Mac guy), The best integration you can get is the HHKB Pro 2. It has all the Mac controls including the power button in it. It has volume controls too, which, correctl;y if I'm wrong, but the Apple extended doesn't have. I screen span my MB, so I always have those controls available to me anyway, so I get what ever keyboard I like and fix the modifier keys in System Preferences. On my Filco, I swopped the Windows keycap and the Alt on both sides of the spacebar and set up my modifier keys accordingly. I lost Caps Lock in leu of control, but that suits me just fine.

[madmaxmedia]

Now we're venturing into the way, way, way, WAY too much category...but that keyboard does look pretty trick- love the charcoal gray.

How is the build quality? I'm surprised there are no reviews of it here (I'll dig through the forums.)

[Astra Diesel]

HHKB is great.

[xsphat]

Now we're venturing into the way, way, way, WAY too much category...but that keyboard does look pretty trick- love the charcoal gray.

How is the build quality? I'm surprised there are no reviews of it here (I'll dig through the forums.)

Are you talking about my HHKB Pro 2 or my Filco? Both are built well, but the Filco is a little sturdier than the HHKB. And thanks either way, I think they both look really good, though I must confess, I originally tried to order a white Filco only to find it's not made anymore.

[iMav]

How is the build quality? I'm surprised there are no reviews of it here (I'll dig through the forums.)

There is a very good review of the Filco (N-key rollover model) in the wiki.

Check the "wiki -> reviews" link at the top of the forum.

[madmaxmedia]

Hey xsphat,

I meant the HHKB Pro since it had the Mac keys. But what you describe with the Filco sounds fine too- I don't care that much if the command key has a Windows symbol or the apple on it...as long as it's in the same place as a regular Mac keyboard.

Last question- how would you compare the feel of the Apple Extended Keyboard (orange switches) to either the Filco or HHKB? Would you consider either of those subjectively better, or mainly just 'different'?

Your Filco review is great, I read there the Filco has a pretty light touch.

Thanks again

[xsphat]

First off, the Filco review wasn't mine.

Next, in Mac, the command key is always nearest the spacebar, the option / alt key next to it. I swapped my Windows and Alt keys just so it would make more sense to me. And you can always remap your modifier key placements in System Preferences.

On to the orange Alps. I have an Apple Desktop Bus keyboard with those switches. Those are tactile switches with some decent springs. The brown Cherry switches in the Filco and the Topre capacitive in the HHKB Pro 2 are lighter touch switches called alternative feel or alternative touch. With the Alps tactile switches, it takes more force to push the key to the point of registering a key press, then the switch gives way and the key is easy to bottom out. On the up-swing, it feels as if the key is right on your ass pushing you away. With the other switches we're talking about, that just isn't how it is.

On the alternative touch switches, it just takes a quick flick of the fingers and it's over. It feels like it types that fast. That's it. It took me longer than I thought it did to get used to the HHKB because of this. Then I got the Filco and the Cherry browns are even lighter than the that, and I fell in love. The Cherry browns absolutely killed my love of the loud and clicky keyboards.

But I can't say one is better than the other. There is no definitive answer to that debate. All I can say is if I was to be stuck on a desert isle with only one type of key switch, I'd take the Cherry browns in a second.

The Filco is without a doubt the best keyboard I've ever had. It's got the build quality I expect and it is so fast to type on. The HHKB is a very close second, so don't let me sway you into thinking it's not good.

[Whiskey in the Jar-o]

The Filco is without a doubt the best keyboard I've ever had. It's got the build quality I expect and it is so fast to type on. The HHKB is a very close second, so don't let me sway you into thinking it's not good.

That's what you always say when you buy a new keyboard.  (BTW, perhaps you could sell your clicky SMK to elmomax?).  Seriously though, how do the MX browns compare to the MLs?  I am seriously considering getting a Kinesis Advantage.

[fkeidjn]

Aren't MLs similar to scissor switches (which are still rubber domes to me), only that they're mechanical and clicky?

Browns require low force to depress, and the tactile feeling doesn't interrupt the finger's motion.  It just sends a feeling that you have depressed the keyswitch far enough.  Here's my analogy: the tactile feeling can be compared to a car passing a small and slightly noticeable bump on the road.

Therefore, the mind sends that signal to finger to go to the next keyswitch.  As how IBI mentioned elsewhere is more of a psychological thing than a physical thing.

[xsphat]

Seriously though, how do the MX browns compare to the MLs?  I am seriously considering getting a Kinesis Advantage.

The MLs (which are not scissors switches) feel very similar to the blacks, except they lack what I hate in the the blacks - that sensation of parking the key on a thick, soft and squishy rubber pad toward the end of every key stroke.

The MX brown switch has a much lighter touch than the ML, and it has the longer throw common to all MX switches. I like the MLs, while I wouldn't put them in an insanely overpriced and much hyped keyboard ( ... ), the ML4100 remains one of the better keyboards made with 3/4 size keys.

That's what you always say when you buy a new keyboard.

Well ... look at my collection. First it was the SMK85 that ruled the roost. The HHKB Pro2 came next, but I still liked the 85 better. Then I got the Macally MK96 and I found out what white clicky Alps switches are all about and that dethroned the 85.

Then I bought the Filco and now I'm selling off my entire collection. And I have been in contact with Elmomax about the 85 ...

Look at my collection pictures. If there is anything there you like, PM me and make an offer.

[Whiskey in the Jar-o]

Look at my collection pictures. If there is anything there you like, PM me and make an offer.

So you're selling everything, but the Filco?  Wow, that sure is an endorsement of the Cherry browns.

[xsphat]

I'm keeping the HHKB and the Filco.

[iMav]

So you're selling everything, but the Filco?  Wow, that sure is an endorsement of the Cherry browns.

Unless, of course, he is selling so he can buy something else.  

[Whiskey in the Jar-o]

Unless, of course, he is selling so he can buy something else.  

What else is there left to buy?

[xsphat]

A Topre 101.

So how would that be for a rotation:
HHKB Pro 2
Filco w/ browns
Topre 101

All Japanese, all the time.