NPR story on Model M & Unicomp

[lexicon]

Here.

Nice segment just now focusing on Unicomp, which apparently is having financial problems.  I hope this story raises their profile among the general public & helps.

[wellington1869]

Nice article.
where did you hear they were having financial problems?

[zwmalone]

I would really hate to lose unicomp.  I realize the quality isn't IBM/Lexmark good, but that will leave Cherry the last man standing... {for mechanical keyboards (I realize the M isn't really mechanical, I'm just generalizing here)}

[xsphat]

Apparently, with the 3 billion variations on the Alps switch, I have a feeling every nook and cranny in all of Asia has switch making machine and they are running them off quicker than sh*t.

[zwmalone]

If we're counting knock-off ALPS switches I guess we should count the shengya buckling springs as well.  Althogh the fake alps and shengya BS are inferior I guess they still can both be counted.  I was only counting the original "big three" though.

[xsphat]

I know, I was just making a crack. Topre and BS aren't mechanical, so we can't even count them here ...

[lexicon]

The audio report itself (which isn't yet in the NPR archives -- I guess there's a 24 hour delay) focused on Unicomp's current problem, which is that their commercial customers aren't ordering because of the economy, and Best Buy, etc., won't stock their boards because people want cheapo boards.  They interviewed the head of Unicomp (whose name I've forgotten),  and he said they're trying to get the word out to individual computer users about their keyboards.

NPR apparently toured their factory, and there's audio of a machine with mechanical fingers they use to test the keys.  There's also a woman there who tries every key and judges it by sound.  Pretty cool.  It really sounds like Old World craftsmanship.

[bhtooefr]

Also, their industrial design sucks. Horribly. Maybe that's why places like Best Buy won't take them.

I mean, look at a Das Keyboard, with its problems and all, next to a SpaceSaver. The SpaceSaver looks like a cheap piece of crap from 1999.

But, I will say... that giant model of a buckling spring mechanism is awesome.

[Etinin]

I at least did my part and bought a $70 keyboard in the hope that they can remain in business. It would really suck to lose the last decent buckling spring manufacturer. Although the two parts of the keyboard are looser than they should be, the Unicomps are still excellent keyboards.

[lexicon]

The black Customizer 101 I bought a few years ago (2005) is a thing of beauty, at least in part because it has the old-style IBM light panel and no dorky Unicomp logo.  Fit and finish are great.  Makes me wonder if they haven't been cutting corners for the past couple of years.

[billm]

I think if unicomp addressed our market, afficianados, which according to the story they plan to, they will survive.

They are the true heirs to the original, they're like Harley Davidson, or Fender, or Gibson. You can't just invent that kind of lineage, and if you can't make money off of it it's not because there isn't money to be made it's because you are clueless to the real value of your product.

[wellington1869]

Also, their industrial design sucks. Horribly. Maybe that's why places like Best Buy won't take them.

I mean, look at a Das Keyboard, with its problems and all, next to a SpaceSaver. The SpaceSaver looks like a cheap piece of crap from 1999.

But, I will say... that giant model of a buckling spring mechanism is awesome.

ya, I want one of those giant buckling spring models on my desk!

And yes, seriously, a little freaking industrial design would go such a long way for this company. To be honest while I would hate to see them go out of business I cant help but think some of it is their own fault. As bht says, just look at the das. How hard can it be to put some freaking gloss on the board? Change that awful unicomp logo? Innovate with a quieter mounting plate?  And turn their lousy hack job of a website into a real website? And sell that giant buckling spring model for 20 bucks on their website?

[bhtooefr]

They don't even need gloss.

Anonymity would be better than what they have now. Something like the Scorpius M10, which would blend in in a wall of cheap keyboards, would be better than the fugly Unicomp logo and the grey keys.

[wellington1869]

They don't even need gloss.

Anonymity would be better than what they have now. Something like the Scorpius M10, which would blend in in a wall of cheap keyboards, would be better than the fugly Unicomp logo and the grey keys.

ya, absolutely. I'd hesitate to put the current unicomp line-up on my store shelves too (if I were a BB manager). They've gotta look more contemporary. (They can still sell the 'classic' versions online).

It just seems like there are so many obvious things they could do that they havent done in sooooo long.

[bhtooefr]

You know, even the SpaceSaver's current design, if they made a different case lid without the pointing stick button cutout (I know why they don't, but bear with me) would look unique. Maybe a bit dated, but... make some black keys, deal with the fact that the printing will wear off, and have someone grab a copy of MS Paint and make a new LED cluster.

[wellington1869]

and how hard would it be to make a buckling spring version of the mighty mouse?
Geekhackers have been clamoring for one of those for a while.

For that matter, how about a modular version with detachable numpad? If DSI can innovate why cant unicomp?

[bhtooefr]

Because Unicomp appears to only be able to use stuff if they can base it on old IBM tooling.

[bhtooefr]

Ooh. Listen to the audio, it's on that page.

They claim that they're going to go towards more custom keyboards for gamers and such, and they're working on bringing back some old silent buckling spring technology.

Let's see, what did IBM have that was old, and made BS silent? Oh, yeah, grease.

But, for custom gaming keyboards... the only issue is, the rollover patterns on a Unicomp board just suck for gaming, IIRC. And, don't gamers tend to prefer lightweight linear switches, not heavy click+tactile switches?

[zwmalone]

and how hard would it be to make a buckling spring version of the mighty mouse?
Geekhackers have been clamoring for one of those for a while.

For that matter, how about a modular version with detachable numpad? If DSI can innovate why cant unicomp?

DSI outsources to StrongMan (IIRC).  All the unicomp 'boards are done in-house.  Unicomp just doesn't have the funds to innovate past a certain point.  They are a brick and mortar keyboard manufacturer that services a niche market- They don't have the funds to innovate and they can't get the funds without innovating.  It's a lose-lose situation for them.

Because Unicomp appears to only be able to use stuff if they can base it on old IBM tooling.

They just don't (I'm assuming) have the funds to have new molds made, new machinery brought in and retooling the old machinery to make new parts required for newer-styled keyboards...

[wellington1869]

They don't have the funds to innovate and they can't get the funds without innovating. It's a lose-lose situation for them.

well, isnt that what investment banks are for? Its better than going out of business.

Let's see, what did IBM have that was old, and made BS silent? Oh, yeah, grease.

lol. I hope they're thinking of trying something different for noise reduction. Like rubberized mounting plates and barrels. I hope they only soften the click, not elimate it...

And, don't gamers tend to prefer lightweight linear switches, not heavy click+tactile switches?

ya, I'm not sure they should go after gamers. IBM keyboards were business machines, first and foremost. The secretary market (and writers, journalists, academics, novelists market) is much bigger than the gamers market. Thats who they should go after I think. The BS is made for a professional writer's keyboard.

[bhtooefr]

well, isnt that what investment banks are for? Its better than going out of business.

In this economic climate? Getting a loan isn't exactly easy.

[wellington1869]

what they should do is come up with a slew of prototypes, and then offer those for feedback to geekhack members.
Seriously. We'll tell them exactly what we think, with brutal honesty, and they can take that information and feedback and then use it as they see fit.

[wellington1869]

In this economic climate? Getting a loan isn't exactly easy.

well if lowpoly can find a way to innovate and make a new board, it seems to me there has to be a way for an established company like unicomp, with an amazingly well established technology, to find a way too.

[Xuan]

That's what you get when you make quality stuff. Make cheap crap that will break in a month and you get the customer back.
I know I won't have to buy a new board from Unicomp in years.

[zwmalone]

well, isnt that what investment banks are for? Its better than going out of business.

Investor: "What have you got?"
Unicomp: "Well, we have this whole line of keyboards that look like they're from the late eighties, Oh and some of them even come with black bodies and metallic gray keys!"
Investor: "Doesn't look very promising"
Unicomp: "You'll just have to lend me the money and we'll find out!"
Investor: "I think I'll pass on that offer"

[wellington1869]

I think i'd rather like to see a rubberized mounting plate and barrels with rubberized keys. (that was the one thing I liked about the lycosa, incidentally; lovely soft-touch keys). And that would make the click totally civilized in volume, and keep a substantial amount of the tactile feel and resistance.

They can also experiment with different classes of springs. They could totally have a 'light' version with a much lighter spring. (I dont think they need to do anything heavier). They need a whole range of board options. They should OEM the manufacturing if they need to (as DSI did). Cut a deal with producers based on actual sales so there's less money they need to put up front (no capital investments, etc).  I mean I'm not even a banker and I know enough from movies to know there are options in this country if the will is there.

[wellington1869]

That's what you get when you make quality stuff. Make cheap crap that will break in a month and you get the customer back.
I know I won't have to buy a new board from Unicomp in years.

all the more reason to make rubberized boards (keys and mounting plates). They'll wear out much sooner, like normal boards, and in this market thats fine. They can still sell the 'classic tank line' on the website for the true purists.

[wellington1869]

Investor: "What have you got?"
Unicomp: "Well, we have this whole line of keyboards that look like they're from the late eighties, Oh and some of them even come with black bodies and metallic gray keys!"
Investor: "Doesn't look very promising"
Unicomp: "You'll just have to lend me the money and we'll find out!"
Investor: "I think I'll pass on that offer"

They should OEM the manufacturing if they need to (as DSI did). Cut a deal with producers based on actual sales so there's less money they need to put up front (no capital investments, etc). I mean I'm not even a banker and I know enough from movies to know there are options in this country if the will is there.

[zwmalone]

It's different for DSI.  DSI isn't using custom switching mechanisms that nobody else uses.  Unicomp assembles the buckling springs and the keyboards.  All StrongMan has to do for DSI is solder a switch to a PCB and mount it in a case.  If Unicomp were to outsource they would need to have the OEM assemble each buckling spring assy, manufacture a membrane, a circuit board, casing, backplates, keys, etc.  Now they're using IBM's antiquated machinery limiting them to certain designs but at least it's cheap.  It would probably be more expensive to outsource the production because without a capital investment the OEM isn't going to waste their time with an unproven keyboard design.

[xsphat]

Come on people, we are the people they are talking about serving and you're telling them to make crap? No. We need a rep from Unicomp to come out the server closet and talk to us in a thread about what they could do to get us bragging about their product line.

It's true that their current keyboards wouldn't look out of place in a Wham video, but that is their only problem. I say they should keep the customizer for the memories and the legacy and redo the entire rest of their line up.

[wellington1869]

Come on people, we are the people they are talking about serving and you're telling them to make crap?

no, I'm telling them to make crap for the mass consumer market (not really crap though, will be very nice looking, nice feeling boards, just wont last 30 years, thats all).
For us purists, they should always keep the original 'tank' lines alive.

 We need a rep from Unicomp to come out the server closet and talk to us in a thread about what they could do to get us bragging about their product line.

absolutley agreed. If they are serious about their boards at all they should do this. They dont have to do everything we ask but they would benefit either way by understanding different segments of their market.

I say they should keep the customizer for the memories and the legacy and redo the entire rest of their line up.

me too  Keep the customizer and spacesaver and redo everything else.

[wellington1869]

make it look like a das, make it modular like DSI, rubberize key components so it can be used in an office while retaining some of the click and all the feel, and put blue leds on it.

And i'd pay $150 for that even without a job.

[xsphat]

I wouldn't, but if they made a tenkeyless version of the M2, I'd buy that over any Filco. I'm not the hugest buckling spring supporter, but I'd rather get keyboards from US makers if I can (especially now, since the ab*use* of credit mixed with being in two unwinable wars hurt our economy so bad).

[wellington1869]

I definitely think a tenkeyless version should be in the unicomp line... (which if its modular, then by definition the base is basically a tenkeyless layout)...

[pex]

I'm mostly big in rehacking my free keyboards so that they have n-key rollover, but in my dealings with Unicomp, these things jump out at me:

http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/

Horrible web presence.  Try registering unicompkeyboard.com for 9.99/yr with 20% off!  That way it contains your trademark.  You could even just use pckeyboard.com that you already own!  (P.S. Jim Owens: stop replying from your yahoo address.)

Have a clear support e-mail address.  For some reason I remember stumbling upon both unicomp@pckeyboard.com and support@pckeyboard.com.  Unify or clearly specify which is for what.  And clean up that website.  "The Web Site is currently being "remodeled"; should you encounter a problem during this time, please contact Customer Support at the toll free number shown below."  I think it's said that for a year.

I can even suggest to Unicomp that there are free hosting services that provide advanced features if someone doesn't want to pay 3 dollars a year to actually have a host that allows URLS like pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net to be rewritten.

I think we do all know one great thing about Unicomp seems to be the promptness of response and seeming willingness to help.  I don't think that's a reason to be lax elsewhere.

Sometime, I even come upon a website of a product/service I like, and the site sucks so bad and I know the backend must be so simple/lame I contemplate volunteering 40 hours or something just to clean the damn thing up once and for all...since I would guess there is not a lot to the pckeyboard.com website, that is probably a possibility for someone.   (I can't actually tell you the last time I did that, because it was probably never.  But it does cross the mind!)

I think the best thing Unicomp could do is take the SK-720C at 14.95 and pop full n-key rollover on it (what's that going to be, 2 dollar increase of manufacture cost?), raise the price 5 bucks, and attack a new market.  I sure have not seen a basic layout keyboard (arranged in what looks to be my favorite layout -- single line enter key, big backspace?) with n-key rollover for under 60 bucks except may on special sale.  Advertise and sell it on that single feature, since even companies/distributors who have n-key rollover keyboards fail to adequately market that factor.  I would buy a **** keyboard that has n-key rollover (since I've been using membrane keyboards my whole life) on principle at 20 bucks, and you better be sure I'll pick one up.

I don't really think it's that much of a wonder why retail won't pick up Unicomp keyboards because they really are a niche company until they can prove (not through gimmickry) to people either a long range cost-effectiveness vs crap keyboards, some considerable ergonomic effect, or be able to show a market you're useful.

Some of us are already bought on Unicomp...and maybe it's just more of us they're targeting.  But the public isn't us, and what the public has loved for the last century is 'cheap' under any name it comes by.

[lal]

Where is the audio link? Am I too stupid?

Oh, and does the video with the huge buckling spring model work for anyone here? :|

[bhtooefr]

The video works for me...

The audio link is in the sidebar on the left, something like "hear the clicking" or something.

As for cheapening the Unicomp brand, the last thing they need is brand dilution. If that happens, then they lose their reputation for making high quality modern day Model Ms, and that's their sole niche (even if their quality is lower than IBM and Lexmark.)

[lal]

The video works for me...

The audio link is in the sidebar on the left, something like "hear the clicking" or something.

Ah, found the link under "Hear The Clicks", thanks! But it still doesn't work. You're running Windows, right? In Ubuntus Firefox the audio and video links open a flash player in a popup that appears to be empty...

[bhtooefr]

Ugh, Flash on Linux just sucks.

[elmwood]

I heard the story too.

My armchair advice:

1)  Better Web presence.
2)  Tell us more about services and products that aren't advertised, such as custom keyboards, replacement and custom keycaps, keyboards with removable keycaps, foreign keyboard layouts, parts and so on.
3)  Change the logo.
4)  Advertise on geek-related sites (Slashdot, Tom's Hardware, Ars Technica, and so on.)
5) Replace the grey key/black case keyboard with a black-on-black keyboard, similar to the black-on-black Model Ms.
6)  Send demo models to hardware review sites.
7)  Export to Japan.

As for the "big box stores won't stock or keyboards because they're too expensive" argument, it seems odd that the big boxes will stock $100+ multimedia and wireless boards.

Aren't Decks and many ruggedized industrial boards made in the USA?

[wellington1869]

Oh, and does the video with the huge buckling spring model work for anyone here? :|

video did not work well for me, I wasnt getting all the frames (it seemed like I was getting every 10th or 20th frame).  And I'm on a fully functioning winXP machine.

[wellington1869]

4) Advertise on geek-related sites (Slashdot, Tom's Hardware, Ars Technica, and so on.)

also on all writers sites, academic sites, etc.

[lowpoly]

I'd start with a black M2. Maybe with lighter springs.

Just run the black keycaps through the standard lasering for white keycaps. I don't know how other manufacturers do the black on black symbols but that was always my guess.

Tenkeyless is difficult with the M2 because there's no room for the controller when you cut the number pad.

And the logo of course.

[wellington1869]

one interesting thing about the giant plastic buckling spring model in the video. When the spring buckles and there is a click sound, it doesnt look like the spring is hitting the side of the case. I always thought the 'click' was from the bent spring hitting the side of the casing. Does it make the 'click' just by buckling (without hitting anything)?

[lowpoly]

In the video it looks like the sounds comes from the hammer hitting the base. Or it's too short to see.

[wellington1869]

In the video it looks like the sounds comes from the hammer hitting the base. Or it's too short to see.

what about the click on the upstroke?

also on the downstroke I thought the hammer hits a rubber membrane, would that click that loudly?

[lal]

Veeeeery interesting question. Now it'll be even harder to fall asleep. Thanks wellington, not! Nice avatar pic though. And I can not imagine the click being produced by the hammer hitting the rubber sheet. No way. The down and up clicks just sound too similar. They complement each other. But I was sure the down click would come from the spring hitting the side wall, too. Until now.

(note to myself: have to boot windows and watch that damn buckle video)

[wellington1869]

Veeeeery interesting question. Now it'll be even harder to fall asleep. Thanks wellington, not! Nice avatar pic though. And I can not imagine the click being produced by the hammer hitting the rubber sheet. No way. The down and up clicks just sound too similar. They complement each other. But I was sure the down click would come from the spring hitting the side wall, too. Until now.

Unless the big plastic mockup is not accurate (and is for 'demonstration purposes only'?).  I'd like to know for sure what is producing the clicks in the BS switch. (I think a while back someone linked to a gif animation of a bs switch, I cant find it anymore though).

The original patent (pdf file) seems to clearly show (in figure 1D) the spring striking the casing, though in the written description in the patent I'm not seeing it mention that.

(note to myself: have to boot windows and watch that damn buckle video)

lol, you should. The video by the way is working fine now (for me anyway).

[bhtooefr]

The GIF animation would be on sandy's site, and it's of a 5576-A01's BS module, IIRC.

[lal]

Hooray, I managed to watch the video! Had to open the player window first and then click the "+ add" link on the original page. Was disappointing short but satisfying informational.

I guess someone has to read the buckling spring patent to know for sure. Right now I tend to think the click comes from the spring de-/buckling alone. It sounds purely metallic. Even the ridiculous huge spring in the video sounds similar to the BS keys.

Damnit, that video player just stopped working again...