Author Topic: Custom "Gambler" keyboard (Update: Case finished)  (Read 6169 times)

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Offline VVhitel2abbit

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Custom "Gambler" keyboard (Update: Case finished)
« on: Fri, 24 April 2015, 02:46:55 »
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Here is the sketch of the "final" layout for my summer project. (I have it in quotes because I have had close to 8 or 9 "final" designs.) I have ordered everything to build it and have started in on the process a bit.
Noteworthy things about why I did this design:
- Cheaper (a few tweaks dropped costs from $300 to $180! (initial estimates...))
- Portability (12"x 5" + 1 usb cord)
- Navigation (backwards nav on left pinkey, forwards on the right pinkey)
- Shortcuts (ctrl and alt can be hit with one thumb, even at the same time! Also, shift is on the left to leave open shift-clicks (assuming you're right handed))
- I have bad accuracy (I need a closer backspace and delete...)
- I hate caps-lock (it is pointless. If shift is on the thumb, you have no need for caps-lock.)
- A better lock (The "Lock" button can lock any key. Hold lock then press keys to lock them down. Lock ctrl, shift, alt, space, arrows, or all of them at once! (Still not sure about this feature...))
- I love macro (I am a format nazi in my code and documentation. Re-factoring my formats often leads to the need for macros.)
Anyway, the current plan is to use a teensy 2.0, so the lock and macro functionality will be fairly simple in v1.0. I may replace it with something with more memory later so I can store longer macros and more key-locks at once. If I come to dislike certain things about this keyboard, I will likely keep the layout and just reprogram the keys to other things.

Oh, and notice that the bottom 3 keys are a key-height down from the rest of the keys (kinda visible in profile view.) The thumb will usually be on the space and shift, but can drop down for the modifiers when needed. Also, the fn will allow access to F1-12, since I do use those often. I may add in volume control or a numpad mode if Teensy space permits. The fn key will be low priority though.

Hope you like it's current manifestation. I am also not afraid of feedback, even if it is opinion.


UPDATE! A 3-ROW KEYBOARD!(5/7/15)
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I have now made some more tweaks as I approach the actual synthesis stage. I have all my parts and am just waiting on the swipe-card access to my school's mechanical engineering lab so I can use the laser cutter. As pointed out rather promptly, the last design had a few issues with duplicate keys and things. I have since taken a 100th look at my designs and had a bit of an eye opening. Why not treat 'fn' as a second shift key? When placed on the left thumb under the shift key, it will be easy to get to. I then can have a shift for caps and a shift for symbols, much like most cell phone keyboards do. I organized the symbols by use for programmers. I am sure it's not a perfect configuration, but symbols are probly not common enough to worry too much about them. Here is the layout:



Also, the function keys are on a third layer that is reachable by holding the 'fn' and 'ctrl' key. Also, also, I have built cardboard mock-ups, and the ctrl and alt keys are still very reachable by the left thumb. I do have large hands, but I imagine even small hands would do fine.

I also got bored and made a 3D model of the thing:



Now, one of the hardest parts of learning a new keyboard is just learning the layout. To make things easier in that regard, I have started programming an android version of the keyboard to use on my tablet. Having to hunt and peck for the keys on the tablet really helps me to learn where they are. It is how I learned dvorak in just a few weeks (not fast, but I knew where all the keys were.) I have decided to move to Colemak for this keyboard, so I have placed them in that configuration. The Android keyboard is far from perfect. In fact, it can be a little frustrating at times, but I am trying to fix it up enough to actually use it on a daily basis without much of a problem. Here is a screenshot of it thus-far:



Both the android and real keyboard still need some work. I am currently tweaking some of the angles and minor bevel amounts to get it just the way I want. I am also going to use blank keycaps in case I change my mind about certain keys. I may also turn the 'Lock' key into a 'gaming mode' key instead. The key would make it so that esdf stay the same while all the keys around them change on presses of the 'fn' key. That will give me access to twice the aux keys! Still lots to think about.

If any of you want any of my files, just ask. My source stuff is still really hack-ish at this point, but all my vecor-image files are pretty well organized.


UPDATE! Case is finished.(8/18/15)





« Last Edit: Tue, 18 August 2015, 20:30:56 by VVhitel2abbit »

Offline azhdar

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Re: Hi! I am new and this is my project
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 24 April 2015, 02:52:47 »
I'm not sure about the position of the Fn key, being right next to the row that let you acess the F1-12 doesn't seems convenient. I would have put it down with the modifiers.
All I don't understand why you want 2 ctrl
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Offline VVhitel2abbit

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Re: Hi! I am new and this is my project
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 24 April 2015, 03:07:07 »
I'm not sure about the position of the Fn key, being right next to the row that let you acess the F1-12 doesn't seems convenient. I would have put it down with the modifiers.
All I don't understand why you want 2 ctrl
I mostly put fn up there because of how little I plan to use it. Basically, I need it every once in a while, so it has to be there, but I don't need it often enough to warrant a position on the thumb. This is just a personal preference thing, really.
As for the two ctrl keys, it is because of ctrl-shift shortcuts and ctrl-click shortcuts. In order to maximize comfort when doing these, I need the two ctrl keys. I am trying to think of a way around this (Because I don't like the duplication either) but I have yet to think of a better solution.

Offline VVhitel2abbit

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Re: Hi! I am new and this is my project
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 08 May 2015, 00:14:51 »
I'm not sure about the position of the Fn key, being right next to the row that let you acess the F1-12 doesn't seems convenient. I would have put it down with the modifiers.
All I don't understand why you want 2 ctrl
I mostly put fn up there because of how little I plan to use it. Basically, I need it every once in a while, so it has to be there, but I don't need it often enough to warrant a position on the thumb. This is just a personal preference thing, really.
As for the two ctrl keys, it is because of ctrl-shift shortcuts and ctrl-click shortcuts. In order to maximize comfort when doing these, I need the two ctrl keys. I am trying to think of a way around this (Because I don't like the duplication either) but I have yet to think of a better solution.

Ok ok, I think I have a better design now. See the update. I got rid of the second ctrl and have also removed a whole outside ring of keys. It is now a 47-key keyboard

Offline berserkfan

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Re: Custom "Mantis" keyboard (Name Pending)
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 08 May 2015, 02:37:29 »
split layout would be better. In any case I think Samwisekoi's GH36 can cover this if you use 2 PCBs together.
Most of the modding can be done on your own once you break through the psychological barriers.

Offline metalliqaz

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Re: Custom "Mantis" keyboard (Name Pending)
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 08 May 2015, 06:34:38 »
Inspired custom!!

Offline VVhitel2abbit

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Re: Custom "Mantis" keyboard (Name Pending)
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 09 May 2015, 02:28:21 »
split layout would be better. In any case I think Samwisekoi's GH36 can cover this if you use 2 PCBs together.
I wanted my first keyboard to be easy to make and super portable. I have a 3d printer coming later this year and plan on making a split version after that arrives.

Offline berserkfan

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Re: Custom "Mantis" keyboard (Name Pending)
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 09 May 2015, 03:14:40 »
split layout would be better. In any case I think Samwisekoi's GH36 can cover this if you use 2 PCBs together.
I wanted my first keyboard to be easy to make and super portable. I have a 3d printer coming later this year and plan on making a split version after that arrives.

As in, you're going to have one in your home?

Wow, there's probably a lot you can do after this...
Most of the modding can be done on your own once you break through the psychological barriers.

Offline VVhitel2abbit

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Re: Custom "Mantis" keyboard (Name Pending)
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 10 May 2015, 02:29:09 »
split layout would be better. In any case I think Samwisekoi's GH36 can cover this if you use 2 PCBs together.
I wanted my first keyboard to be easy to make and super portable. I have a 3d printer coming later this year and plan on making a split version after that arrives.

As in, you're going to have one in your home?

Wow, there's probably a lot you can do after this...

Yeah, I am pretty excited. I figure it was better to buy a 3d printer than a game console and a bunch of games. (Eventually I will have to stop using that justification...) I am a lot better with computers than hardware, so it will be nice to have an easier prototyping stage on the mk2. Things like tenting will be a lot easier to design. Plus, it was only $280 for up to 50 microns, two color output, and a 12"x12"x10" print area! (About time)

Offline berserkfan

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Re: Custom "Mantis" keyboard (Name Pending)
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 10 May 2015, 12:48:07 »
split layout would be better. In any case I think Samwisekoi's GH36 can cover this if you use 2 PCBs together.
I wanted my first keyboard to be easy to make and super portable. I have a 3d printer coming later this year and plan on making a split version after that arrives.

As in, you're going to have one in your home?

Wow, there's probably a lot you can do after this...

Yeah, I am pretty excited. I figure it was better to buy a 3d printer than a game console and a bunch of games. (Eventually I will have to stop using that justification...) I am a lot better with computers than hardware, so it will be nice to have an easier prototyping stage on the mk2. Things like tenting will be a lot easier to design. Plus, it was only $280 for up to 50 microns, two color output, and a 12"x12"x10" print area! (About time)

These machines are getting cheap indeed!

But what about the cost of your substrate? EG if you are just making a paired set of tenting stuff (I use such words because you need 1 set for each side of a split keyboard, and 1 set may consist of 2 or more legs), what do you expect the cost to be? My concern is the same as that for inkjet printers. You don't want to buy from a manufacturer who subsidizes the cost of the printer, then extorts you for the proprietary ink.

Also what is the durability of your substrate? At $280 I don't expect your printer to be working with the most durable metals. It would really suck if your keyboard fell 3 feet onto a carpeted floor and broke into bits.
Most of the modding can be done on your own once you break through the psychological barriers.

Offline VVhitel2abbit

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Re: Custom "Mantis" keyboard (Name Pending)
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 12 May 2015, 00:19:38 »
split layout would be better. In any case I think Samwisekoi's GH36 can cover this if you use 2 PCBs together.
I wanted my first keyboard to be easy to make and super portable. I have a 3d printer coming later this year and plan on making a split version after that arrives.

As in, you're going to have one in your home?

Wow, there's probably a lot you can do after this...

Yeah, I am pretty excited. I figure it was better to buy a 3d printer than a game console and a bunch of games. (Eventually I will have to stop using that justification...) I am a lot better with computers than hardware, so it will be nice to have an easier prototyping stage on the mk2. Things like tenting will be a lot easier to design. Plus, it was only $280 for up to 50 microns, two color output, and a 12"x12"x10" print area! (About time)

These machines are getting cheap indeed!

But what about the cost of your substrate? EG if you are just making a paired set of tenting stuff (I use such words because you need 1 set for each side of a split keyboard, and 1 set may consist of 2 or more legs), what do you expect the cost to be? My concern is the same as that for inkjet printers. You don't want to buy from a manufacturer who subsidizes the cost of the printer, then extorts you for the proprietary ink.

Also what is the durability of your substrate? At $280 I don't expect your printer to be working with the most durable metals. It would really suck if your keyboard fell 3 feet onto a carpeted floor and broke into bits.
Yeah, those are real concerns, especially with a kickstarter. I love to tinker and cosplay though, so if the quality is low, I can still find some use for it, (even if it is just making corvo masks and ezreal gauntlets that only last 1 convention day each.) Luckily, this printer can use generic fillaments of either pla or abs. While not the most durable plastics, they should work okay with proper bracing. I guess the nicest thing is that if things do break, I can redesign and rebuild it a little easier. If I make the switch plate metal or acrylic, I may not even need to re-wire anything in the process.
As for tenting, I would like to make something a bit more fancy than the usual pegs. I have been trying to design a locking swivel, but we'll have to see on that one. It would likely take some fancy rubber washer work, but hands are heavy. Not sure if suction could hold things in place enough.
Anyway, I apreciate the thoughts. You have really helped me broaden my view and prepare, mentally, for possible gotchas. Especially since you have been around the block more than I have. I mean, my designs are still only a month or so mature. Anyway, I should get my laser cutter access card this week, so hopefully I can have more update news soon.

Offline vvp

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Re: Custom "Mantis" keyboard (Name Pending)
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 12 May 2015, 04:38:45 »
I 3D print my keyboard cases on a cheap reprap FFF/FDM printer.
ABS is good enough for it. If you are concerned about strength just make the walls thicker. My thinnest walls are thick 1.6 mm and I think it is plenty enough.
There will be very visible texture on the surface from the print head movement. I do not care about it but you can sand and paint it with acetone (or even do acetone vapor bath) to make it smooth and shiny. I only clean up the part and paint with acetone. So the texture stays well visible there (you can see it on the picture below).
ABS works very good since you can fix small defects easily with ABS glue (a bit of ABS melted in acetone).
Here is an example:

If you would like to see more pictures then go here:
http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/katy-keyboard-or-k80cs-key80-contoured-split-t8524.html

Offline darellow

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Re: Custom "Mantis" keyboard (Name Pending)
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 14 May 2015, 08:52:25 »
The keyboard....... so cute >< >< ><

Offline VVhitel2abbit

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Re: Custom "Mantis" keyboard (Name Pending)
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 09 July 2015, 02:01:18 »
I 3D print my keyboard cases on a cheap reprap FFF/FDM printer
...

I really like it. I am designing a mark2 for next year that is quite similar. Would you be willing to share your 3D model?

Offline VVhitel2abbit

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Re: Custom "Mantis" keyboard (Name Pending)
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 09 July 2015, 02:05:32 »
To update, I have finally gotten all my supplies and access to a laser cutter. I will be making the case this weekend, hopefully, and will be able to really get rolling on this thing.

For those interested in all the design decisions I made, check out this blog post: http://tomorrowlabs.blogspot.com/2015/07/making-custom-keyboard-part-0.html
I go through all the reasons I did what I did. It also has some interesting bits of history about keyboards. Most of it is fairly common knowledge.

Offline vvp

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Re: Custom "Mantis" keyboard (Name Pending)
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 09 July 2015, 07:09:58 »
I really like it. I am designing a mark2 for next year that is quite similar. Would you be willing to share your 3D model?
Not for free. The STL files are available for 14 €. If you want them start here.
If you are interested in some free contoured cases then check out the status of these:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71263.0
https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-cave/

Offline VVhitel2abbit

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Re: Custom "Mantis" keyboard (Name Pending)
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 09 July 2015, 11:29:39 »
I really like it. I am designing a mark2 for next year that is quite similar. Would you be willing to share your 3D model?
Not for free. The STL files are available for 14 €. If you want them start here.
If you are interested in some free contoured cases then check out the status of these:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71263.0
https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-cave/

Thanks. I am going to build a clay model of my keyboard first, so I can "try it out" (sorta) and make adjustments easily. Once I nail down the design it will be nice to be able to pick the closest one. Your help is appreciated. (Your's does look like a cleaner model than that last one. :thumb:)

Offline VoteForDavid

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Re: Custom "Mantis" keyboard (Name Pending)
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 09 July 2015, 23:45:50 »
If you are going to have a 3D printer and want variable tenting, you are in luck because this should be printable.  If I can describe it properly.  I saw this on a keyboard that was on its way to recycle and almost saved the board just for this mechanism it's so clever.

On the bottom of the board, a channel say 2" or so long, 1" wide and 1/8" deep.  One end has holes for hinge pins.  A bunch of grooves run across the width of the slot.

The foot is two parts and folds in the middle.  One end is fastened to one end of the channel in the hinge holes.  The other end is free.  The free end is positioned in any one of the grooves along the length of the slot.  The foot either lays flat in the slot, or adjusts to a different angle of V shape, depending which groove it sits in.  Tenting height ranges from flat to almost half the length of the foot.

Gravity could hold the angle, or you could print the slot with a little "click" retention but that could be tricky.

If this isn't clear, I'll see if I can come up with a drawing.
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Offline VVhitel2abbit

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Re: Custom "Mantis" keyboard (Name Pending)
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 10 July 2015, 20:52:30 »
If you are going to have a 3D printer and want variable tenting, you are in luck because this should be printable.  If I can describe it properly.  I saw this on a keyboard that was on its way to recycle and almost saved the board just for this mechanism it's so clever.

On the bottom of the board, a channel say 2" or so long, 1" wide and 1/8" deep.  One end has holes for hinge pins.  A bunch of grooves run across the width of the slot.

The foot is two parts and folds in the middle.  One end is fastened to one end of the channel in the hinge holes.  The other end is free.  The free end is positioned in any one of the grooves along the length of the slot.  The foot either lays flat in the slot, or adjusts to a different angle of V shape, depending which groove it sits in.  Tenting height ranges from flat to almost half the length of the foot.

Gravity could hold the angle, or you could print the slot with a little "click" retention but that could be tricky.

If this isn't clear, I'll see if I can come up with a drawing.

I think I can picture what you're describing. It's sorta like how most beach chairs recline. That does sound simple and effective. That may be a little tricky to model, but less so than some of the other solutions I was dreaming up. Thanks

Offline VVhitel2abbit

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Re: Custom "Mantis" keyboard (Name Pending)
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 10 July 2015, 21:11:55 »
Hi gang. I have been toying with another idea. What about having TWO extra modifiers, instead of just one.
The first would be a symbol mode. It would give me access to all the symbols and numbers (since I don't have a top row anymore.) The other would be a function mode. This would be for all the things on a keyboard that don't actually output a letter or symbol. This function mode would allow me to put all movement keys on or around home row.

Now, I want an honest opinion on this one. Also, I have a few spots for extra symbols. I put in pi, the Brittish Pound sign, the euro sign, and ñ. Just curious what symbols you think would be most useful in these extra spots. I don't know any foreign languages and don't really plan on learning any, so I would like it optimized for English use.

I also have begin designing some alternate modes for the keyboard. I have two gaming modes for FPS and MOBA games. The right side of the keyboard is pretty much untouched, just the left side has been altered.
Note that for FPS mode, I have moved wasd to the esdf spot. Also note that the macro button has been replaced by a "Chat Mode" button. That toggles to and from the typing mode layout (since the moved around keys would make it hard to type.)

Anyway, let me know what you think, or if you have any questions. I will be glad to explain my thought patterns when creating this.

Offline vvp

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Re: Custom "Mantis" keyboard (Name Pending)
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 11 July 2015, 12:23:14 »
Oobly has a very small board too and he solves it with one layer button combined with shift:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49721.msg1078758#msg1078758
That saves him one Fn button.

I do not have an opinion here. My keyboard has enough buttons so one Fn button is enough.

Offline VVhitel2abbit

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Re: Custom "Mantis" keyboard (Name Pending)
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 11 July 2015, 15:26:07 »
Oobly has a very small board too and he solves it with one layer button combined with shift:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49721.msg1078758#msg1078758
That saves him one Fn button.

I do not have an opinion here. My keyboard has enough buttons so one Fn button is enough.

I thought about that one, but my fear is that may make some keyboard shortcuts impossible. He has less trouble with it, since he has dedicated directional keys. I just really want a design that you never have to leave home row on. Zero stretch, yet full functionality.

Offline shaymdev

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Re: Custom "Mantis" keyboard (Name Pending)
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 13 July 2015, 18:40:25 »
I've been prepping for my minimal layout that my custom build will use and am using autohotkey to achieve it with a normal keyboard. I use the modifiers to the left and right of the space bar for what you call symbol mode and function mode. I've been using it for about a month and although its not complete I really like it. I can't wait to use it on a board that is more catered to it than my old logitech rubber dome. My function layer has many similar keys that you have (arrows, home/end, f-keys, etc). You can see my autohotkey script here if you want (Its set up to remap dvorak keys though, so beware).

Offline VVhitel2abbit

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Re: Custom "Mantis" keyboard (Name Pending)
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 14 July 2015, 21:41:08 »
I've been prepping for my minimal layout that my custom build will use and am using autohotkey to achieve it with a normal keyboard. I use the modifiers to the left and right of the space bar for what you call symbol mode and function mode. I've been using it for about a month and although its not complete I really like it. I can't wait to use it on a board that is more catered to it than my old logitech rubber dome. My function layer has many similar keys that you have (arrows, home/end, f-keys, etc). You can see my autohotkey script here if you want (Its set up to remap dvorak keys though, so beware).

OOooo, nice! I may play with that script a little to see what it feels like. (Though I will have to change it over to Colemak, you know, the dark side of the light side.) Thanks for sharing. I am going to work on a minimum build closer to yours next year, when I have my 3D printer, so I will have to start following your project. It seems not many people are up for abandoning all tradition like we few.

Offline VVhitel2abbit

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Re: Custom "Mantis" keyboard (Name Pending)
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 14 July 2015, 21:46:10 »
I've been prepping for my minimal layout that my custom build will use and am using autohotkey to achieve it with a normal keyboard. I use the modifiers to the left and right of the space bar for what you call symbol mode and function mode. I've been using it for about a month and although its not complete I really like it. I can't wait to use it on a board that is more catered to it than my old logitech rubber dome. My function layer has many similar keys that you have (arrows, home/end, f-keys, etc). You can see my autohotkey script here if you want (Its set up to remap dvorak keys though, so beware).

I got looking closer at your minimal layout and, I gotta say, great minds think alike. It makes me happy to see that so many keys on your layout are in the same places as on mine. That means that those are the most logical spots and that it should be fairly easy to learn. I am excited to hear how your project turns out.

Offline VVhitel2abbit

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Re: Custom "Mantis" keyboard (Update: Case finished)
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 18 August 2015, 20:30:21 »
UPDATE! Case is finished.






Offline shaymdev

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Re: Custom &quot;Gambler&quot; keyboard (Update: Case finished)
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 19 August 2015, 21:26:55 »
Ooh, it's looking pretty sweet. After using my custom build for a bit I'm liking your integrated palm rests and thinking about options to get some myself.

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Custom "Gambler" keyboard (Update: Case finished)
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 20 August 2015, 08:17:12 »
The layout is interesting, in a good way. I really like how it puts a lot more buttons near the thumbs but it's not crazy. I think that the Ergodox put too many buttons on the thumb cluster. Or like how some of the Matias bottom rows are. They're not bad to use but there's just too much. And I like the case a lot :D. Really looking forward to the finished build.

Offline Loonie

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Re: Custom "Gambler" keyboard (Update: Case finished)
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 21 August 2015, 13:07:59 »
Really nice ! I like how the second row of thumb keys sits lower than the first.

I can see the thin mounting plate reinforced by the thicker plate just underneath it it you told me about.

After a couple years of typing on a Typematrix which also have the two halves separated by a 1 unit wide key, I think that the hands would be too close to each other for my liking. But it's not that bad and it does keep it compact.