Author Topic: Small space bars?  (Read 2281 times)

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Offline decklin

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Small space bars?
« on: Mon, 10 November 2008, 22:51:39 »
I am aware this is kind of weird, but...

As you probably know, Japanese-layout keyboards have some additional modifier keys on the bottom row for kana input, making the space bar much shorter. For example, the Realforce 89U -- this is the best one I've found, as it doesn't try to cramp any modifiers into less than standard size.

I would really like to try a physical arrangement like this, not for international input, but for Emacs :-) I am typing on a HHK, and on all other PC keyboards I also remap Control to the left of A. This works, but it's admittedly still unkind to my pinky. I am interested in setting up a mapping like the old Lisp machine keyboards, with Control just outside the spacebar and Meta after that, operated with my thumbs (this is also like the Mac in that the primary modifier key is the easiest thumb key). Unfortunately, with a standard PC key placement I can only comfortably reach the left Alt by curling my thumb under -- the others are too far out, and require wrist/arm motion (so, hypothetically, the Symbolics layout would be even worse, despite having the concept right). Even on a Mac, Option is a bit of a stretch. A short spacebar, like on the Japanese version of the Realforce, would solve this (my thumbs rest between V and N, so I *think* that's all I really need). On that 89U you can see that Alt pretty much stays where it is, and the more convenient position (for Control) is carved out of the spacebar. This would be ideal.

I would just get this particular board and try my crazy idea out, except:

1. It's way out of my price range.
2. I really can't deal with the differently-shaped Enter key.

So, I am wondering if anyone is aware of other options. As far as I know many Japanese people still buy US-layout boards (because they only want to use romaji, I guess), so the short, wide Enter key is not totally foreign. Do there exist any Japanese boards with a "standard" (to me) Enter and backslash, but that still have extra modifier keys? Alternatively, are there US-layout boards that do not crowd the modifier keys, but cut down on the spacebar instead, enough so that I can have two on each thumb? Basically, anything with a modifier key that reaches past C into V, but with another that doesn't reach past Z into Shift.

Here's something nearly passable, in theory: the Sejin SPR-8695. Unfortunately, it seems to be one of those terrible mushy membrane low-travel numbers that the "mini" category is always full of. The decisions made about cutting keys off on the right and left edges are really bizarre -- did they desperately need to make it half an inch narrower? Also, like many, many US keyboards, the space bar is not symmetrical relative to home-row hand position -- I want to properly use the opposite thumb for each Control or Meta key, rather than hitting two keys with one hand as I do now, or on any board where the right-hand modifiers are way off in Carpeltunnelistan.

Key switch quality is not a priority, as long as it's passable, i.e., better than one of those crappy slim membranes. This is actually a HHK *lite* I'm sitting at, which I don't mind too much (desk space and money were tight). Apart from that, I regularly use a Scorpius M10, Apple Extended II, and a ThinkPad, just to give you an idea. Is there anything out there for me? Or am I just dreaming?

(Of course, I could also just save up for a Kinesis... or choose between Emacs and avoiding RSI. :-) But I knew that.)

Offline lowpoly

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Small space bars?
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 11 November 2008, 04:30:36 »
The IBM Space Saver II is available with a short space bar:



That photo is from a german site but I'm not sure it pictures a german keyboard. Look for the ISO version with vertical enter.

Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline decklin

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Small space bars?
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 11 November 2008, 23:56:08 »
Thanks for both suggestions (now commencing search for any versions with a wide Enter...)

It looks like there is a HHK Pro Japanese, actually:
http://www.pfu.co.jp/hhkeyboard/hhkbprojp/

Possibly no longer made, as I think they are only manufacturing the Pro2 now? Anyway, I find the inclusion of a full-size "inverted T" set of arrow keys very strange/interesting. The Japanese Lite2 seems to have the same little ones as the US Lite2 (I no longer have one of those... call me crazy, but I really felt like it was mushier than the original Lite).

The Lite JP layout, this is also somewhat odd, has wider kana keys -- closer to the Meta on the US. I like 1.5 or even 2-wide modifiers much more than ones that are 1x the width of an alphanumeric key. I don't really understand why the Alt on all the US boards is small -- there's nothing next to it! I am a firm believer in Fitts' Law.

Offline decklin

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Small space bars?
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 11 November 2008, 23:59:13 »
Oh, never mind, there's a thread on the JP Pro already:

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=934

Offline Chloe

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Small space bars?
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 12 November 2008, 11:25:31 »
There are a couple of discontinued Filco models you might be interested in, although both have large Enter keys:
FKB-82PRO
FKB89J

Strong Man SMK-90 JPU (PRO)

You might be able to get one of these from Yahoo Japan Auctions with Crescent Shop's bidding service.