Unpopular Keyboard Opinions

[Blaise170]

Then don't dare tell them how much you paid for those artisans... 

This hobby can set you back a lot of money, and sometimes for the dumbest sh*t. Nothing is "overpriced" if you want it and can afford it. When somebody says a Topre Realforce board is overpriced, what they seem to be saying is that anyone who buys one got suckered, whereas what they are actually saying is that they are either unable to afford one, or unwilling to spend the money on one. That's a reflection of their personal circumstances, not a reflection of some objective truth about value.

I don't necessarily think that people who buy Topre are being "suckered" into overpaying. On the other hand, I do think that Topre boards would sell for $50-60 if people weren't readily willing to spend hundreds on one. Like I said, "subjective value of an item doesn't make an item pricier unless there is a limited supply". I can say the same thing about products like a MacBook or gaming laptop. They are nice machines, but they are overpriced for what they offer, and that's coming from someone with both.

[zslane]

On the other hand, I do think that Topre boards would sell for $50-60 if people weren't readily willing to spend hundreds on one.

This is a consequence of a fundamental principle of capitalism: sell your product at the maximum price the marketplace will bear.

Topre has learned that they can sell their boards as premium products, at premium prices, and the marketplace will support that. It follows that their products are indeed worth what Topre is selling them for. The marketplace has spoken and told us this (and has been telling us this quite clearly for decades).

[ch_123]

Ok, I'll play.

I found the keyboards on Apple's laptops from ~2008-2016 to be pretty enjoyable to type on.

(The current 'touch bar' ones have awful keyboards though)

[rich1051414]

Topre are overpriced, and yes I own one. The benefit is that you get a rubber dome while also getting key actuation without bottoming out. This 'superior key feel' crap is non-sense. I have proper rubber domes that feel better, like Monterrey dome with slider.

Don't get me wrong, the keyboard feels great and I would not complain if I had to use it, but I don't think the cost is worth it, but apparently, a lot of people do, because they can get away with it. I totally get why some people love it, but I also feel like that niche is being taken advantage of.

[Zobeid Zuma]

I got down-voted to oblivion over on /r when I pointed out the multiple ways that HHKB is lame.  I mean… awkward layout, missing keys, missing legends, glorified rubbeh domes, and most of the ones I see posted have an ugly and impractical artisan lodged on the corner.  And yet somehow people keep putting these things on a pedestal as if they were the ultimate flag-bearers of 60% keyboard design.

[zslane]

I don't think the cost is worth it...

Did you buy yours at a deep discount or something?

[Worthless_Owl]

AEK keycap profile is the best. I think nothing beat their texture and sculpt.

[davkol]

I got down-voted to oblivion over on /r when I pointed out the multiple ways that HHKB is lame.  I mean… awkward layout, missing keys, missing legends, glorified rubbeh domes, and most of the ones I see posted have an ugly and impractical artisan lodged on the corner.  And yet somehow people keep putting these things on a pedestal as if they were the ultimate flag-bearers of 60% keyboard design.

The layout is neither awkward, nor incomplete—within a certain context.

HHKB was designed ca. 25 years ago and was aimed at certain classic unix systems/software. It provided access to all necessary symbols/functions there, and the layout wasn't anything particularly new either (a mix of Apple and Sun Type).

There's nothing particularly wrong with rubber domes either, as long as they're implemented correctly, but that holds for any kind of mechanism.

I agree, though, that some aspects in the community are quite pretentious, and there are people showing off their keyboards (such as Happy Hacking Pro) with weird keycaps for the street cred.

[Altis]

I got down-voted to oblivion over on /r when I pointed out the multiple ways that HHKB is lame.  I mean… awkward layout, missing keys, missing legends, glorified rubbeh domes, and most of the ones I see posted have an ugly and impractical artisan lodged on the corner.  And yet somehow people keep putting these things on a pedestal as if they were the ultimate flag-bearers of 60% keyboard design.

I have two HHKB and I really like them in many ways, but absolutely the layout isn't as perfect as some people would have you believe.

I personally think the empty corners are prime real estate wasted. I would also have a second function layer that took care of the home/end/pgup/pgdown using the same primary keys as the arrows. I find them fairly difficult to use and I use them a lot.

The sound and feel is rather unique though and I still really like them (and I happen to love the look of the white/grey model).

[rich1051414]

I don't think the cost is worth it...

Did you buy yours at a deep discount or something?

Nope. Just more spending money than sense I guess I was curious to see what the big deal was, but it seems I just figured out it was more of a status symbol, unless the person is just a rare breed.

[HoffmanMyster]

I got down-voted to oblivion over on /r when I pointed out the multiple ways that HHKB is lame.  I mean… awkward layout, missing keys, missing legends, glorified rubbeh domes, and most of the ones I see posted have an ugly and impractical artisan lodged on the corner.  And yet somehow people keep putting these things on a pedestal as if they were the ultimate flag-bearers of 60% keyboard design.

The huge appeal of the HHKB to most is the Ctrl and Backspace positioning.  Once I got used to it (particularly Backspace) I started reprogramming my other boards to mimic the layout. 

Sure there are missing keys in the corners, but that's for ergonomics more than anything.  Better to use a function layer than contort your hands to reach the keys. 

Which legends do you find are missing?  I haven't encountered issues with that before. 

All that said, yeah, the layout isn't perfect and neither is the board.  But there is no such thing as a perfect layout anyway, so people find the best for their needs and go with that.  For many, that's the HHKB. 

[ideus]

I got down-voted to oblivion over on /r when I pointed out the multiple ways that HHKB is lame.  I mean… awkward layout, missing keys, missing legends, glorified rubbeh domes, and most of the ones I see posted have an ugly and impractical artisan lodged on the corner.  And yet somehow people keep putting these things on a pedestal as if they were the ultimate flag-bearers of 60% keyboard design.

The huge appeal of the HHKB to most is the Ctrl and Backspace positioning.  Once I got used to it (particularly Backspace) I started reprogramming my other boards to mimic the layout. 

Sure there are missing keys in the corners, but that's for ergonomics more than anything.  Better to use a function layer than contort your hands to reach the keys. 

Which legends do you find are missing?  I haven't encountered issues with that before. 

All that said, yeah, the layout isn't perfect and neither is the board.  But there is no such thing as a perfect layout anyway, so people find the best for their needs and go with that.  For many, that's the HHKB.

Layout wise, less is more. The empty spaces in the happy layout create two extra corners that make the keys at the four bottom corners easier to activate. I use variations of the happy layout and I really cannot get back to the traditional fully populated layout, without having issues to activate some keys; plus, the easier access to activate the backspace and the control keys. Also, it should be noted that corner keys at the bottom of the alpha layout in fully populated boards are very hard to reach from the home position.

[TelFiRE]

DSA feels amazing. GMK is meh.

[Altis]

I got down-voted to oblivion over on /r when I pointed out the multiple ways that HHKB is lame.  I mean… awkward layout, missing keys, missing legends, glorified rubbeh domes, and most of the ones I see posted have an ugly and impractical artisan lodged on the corner.  And yet somehow people keep putting these things on a pedestal as if they were the ultimate flag-bearers of 60% keyboard design.

The huge appeal of the HHKB to most is the Ctrl and Backspace positioning.  Once I got used to it (particularly Backspace) I started reprogramming my other boards to mimic the layout. 

Sure there are missing keys in the corners, but that's for ergonomics more than anything.  Better to use a function layer than contort your hands to reach the keys. 

Which legends do you find are missing?  I haven't encountered issues with that before. 

All that said, yeah, the layout isn't perfect and neither is the board.  But there is no such thing as a perfect layout anyway, so people find the best for their needs and go with that.  For many, that's the HHKB.

Layout wise, less is more. The empty spaces in the happy layout create two extra corners that make the keys at the four bottom corners easier to activate. I use variations of the happy layout and I really cannot get back to the traditional fully populated layout, without having issues to activate some keys; plus, the easier access to activate the backspace and the control keys. Also, it should be noted that corner keys at the bottom of the alpha layout in fully populated boards are very hard to reach from the home position.

What's hard to reach is the forward-delete (FN+~), and kind of FN+K/, for Home/End.

I exceedingly rarely need the tilde ~ so to have it as forward-delete by default would be much preferable.

[rich1051414]

When I first saw the HHKB layout, I was actually a little disgusted by the waste of space, it was as if it was trying to make a statement rather than actually attempt to be compact yet functional. I much prefer the poker or whitefox 60% layouts. Having used the whitefox layout for a while, I still get annoyed by all the layering, and going for an efficient and compact solution, but then wasting space for aesthetics, rubs me the wrong way.

The way I look at it is, give people options. Let them put rare keys there if they want. It is much more difficult to do a f-key layer modification to get to a key than to have in those 'awkward' positions, imo. It is like it is trying to take away bad habits by force, as if they know better than me, and I don't like that at all. Reminds me of apple. Just my unpopular opinion.

[HoffmanMyster]

I got down-voted to oblivion over on /r when I pointed out the multiple ways that HHKB is lame.  I mean… awkward layout, missing keys, missing legends, glorified rubbeh domes, and most of the ones I see posted have an ugly and impractical artisan lodged on the corner.  And yet somehow people keep putting these things on a pedestal as if they were the ultimate flag-bearers of 60% keyboard design.

The huge appeal of the HHKB to most is the Ctrl and Backspace positioning.  Once I got used to it (particularly Backspace) I started reprogramming my other boards to mimic the layout. 

Sure there are missing keys in the corners, but that's for ergonomics more than anything.  Better to use a function layer than contort your hands to reach the keys. 

Which legends do you find are missing?  I haven't encountered issues with that before. 

All that said, yeah, the layout isn't perfect and neither is the board.  But there is no such thing as a perfect layout anyway, so people find the best for their needs and go with that.  For many, that's the HHKB.

Layout wise, less is more. The empty spaces in the happy layout create two extra corners that make the keys at the four bottom corners easier to activate. I use variations of the happy layout and I really cannot get back to the traditional fully populated layout, without having issues to activate some keys; plus, the easier access to activate the backspace and the control keys. Also, it should be noted that corner keys at the bottom of the alpha layout in fully populated boards are very hard to reach from the home position.

What's hard to reach is the forward-delete (FN+~), and kind of FN+K/, for Home/End.

I exceedingly rarely need the tilde ~ so to have it as forward-delete by default would be much preferable.

Yes!  That's definitely a complaint I had as well.  I'm not sure how hard it is to come by these days, but hasu's HHKB controller can resolve this.

[Zobeid Zuma]

The huge appeal of the HHKB to most is the Ctrl and Backspace positioning.  Once I got used to it (particularly Backspace) I started reprogramming my other boards to mimic the layout.

I've been using primarily Macs for the last 20 years.  Ctrl is an almost un-used key on the Mac.  It's only used in the command line, and most people (including me) don't use the command line all that heavily.  Our primary key for application shortcuts is Command (⌘), which is found to the immediate left and right of the space bar.  Having a Command key on the right is important, because all the standard app shortcuts are on the left side of the keyboard.  They are ⌘-Q (quit), ⌘-W (close window), ⌘-S (save), ⌘-Z (undo), ⌘-X (cut), ⌘-C (copy), ⌘-V (paste).  Trying to hit the ⌘ key with the same hand as the shortcut key would be awkward.  Just like we use a Shift key with one hand to capitalize letters on the other hand, you want to use your right hand on ⌘ while pressing the shortcut key with your left.  Of course there can be shortcut keys all over the map, so it's nice to have Control-Option-Command on the left and Command-Option-Control on the right.  They are clustered all together (and under the Shift keys too), so it's easy to chord any combination of these keys, and you can do it with either hand to easily hit shortcuts on either side of the keyboard.  This is such a versatile, logical and natural system that I can only shake my head in dismay when I look at something like HHKB.  What in the world were they thinking?

Now I am in the process of moving to Ubuntu, but I find Mac keyboards work very well on Linux.  All I have to do is enter my keyboard layout options and swap the position of the Ctrl and "Win" keys.  Then I've got a nice familiar layout of Super-Alt-Ctrl on the left and Ctrl-Alt-Super on the right.  Ctrl does the same functions on Linux that Command does on a Mac.  Super/Win is basically unused by Linux, but I can configure all my personal shortcuts to use it, to switch workspaces, toggle fullscreen or minimize windows, without any worry about it conflicting with anything else in the system.  Again it's all logical and convenient, and it would all be harder on a HHKB.

As far as backspace is concerned, backspace belongs on the left half of a split spacebar.  For many years it has seemed obvious to me that all spacebars should be split, and backspace should be on the left.  It's not a new innovation either.  Erase-Ease™ keyboards were introduced in the 1990s.  Unfortunately, they were also trademarked and patented(!) at that time, which I believe is the only reason they didn't quickly take over.  The patent didn't expire until 2016, so maybe now this idea can finally start to make a comeback.

And here is what I'm building today → http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/53eb271326a5e7a951cf8778208e9b5e

[HoffmanMyster]

The huge appeal of the HHKB to most is the Ctrl and Backspace positioning.  Once I got used to it (particularly Backspace) I started reprogramming my other boards to mimic the layout.

I've been using primarily Macs for the last 20 years.  Ctrl is an almost un-used key on the Mac.  It's only used in the command line, and most people (including me) don't use the command line all that heavily.  Our primary key for application shortcuts is Command (⌘), which is found to the immediate left and right of the space bar.  Having a Command key on the right is important, because all the standard app shortcuts are on the left side of the keyboard.  They are ⌘-Q (quit), ⌘-W (close window), ⌘-S (save), ⌘-Z (undo), ⌘-X (cut), ⌘-C (copy), ⌘-V (paste).  Trying to hit the ⌘ key with the same hand as the shortcut key would be awkward.  Just like we use a Shift key with one hand to capitalize letters on the other hand, you want to use your right hand on ⌘ while pressing the shortcut key with your left.  Of course there can be shortcut keys all over the map, so it's nice to have Control-Option-Command on the left and Command-Option-Control on the right.  They are clustered all together (and under the Shift keys too), so it's easy to chord any combination of these keys, and you can do it with either hand to easily hit shortcuts on either side of the keyboard.  This is such a versatile, logical and natural system that I can only shake my head in dismay when I look at something like HHKB.  What in the world were they thinking?

Now I am in the process of moving to Ubuntu, but I find Mac keyboards work very well on Linux.  All I have to do is enter my keyboard layout options and swap the position of the Ctrl and "Win" keys.  Then I've got a nice familiar layout of Super-Alt-Ctrl on the left and Ctrl-Alt-Super on the right.  Ctrl does the same functions on Linux that Command does on a Mac.  Super/Win is basically unused by Linux, but I can configure all my personal shortcuts to use it, to switch workspaces, toggle fullscreen or minimize windows, without any worry about it conflicting with anything else in the system.  Again it's all logical and convenient, and it would all be harder on a HHKB.

As far as backspace is concerned, backspace belongs on the left half of a split spacebar.  For many years it has seemed obvious to me that all spacebars should be split, and backspace should be on the left.  It's not a new innovation either.  Erase-Ease™ keyboards were introduced in the 1990s.  Unfortunately, they were also trademarked and patented(!) at that time, which I believe is the only reason they didn't quickly take over.  The patent didn't expire until 2016, so maybe now this idea can finally start to make a comeback.

And here is what I'm building today → http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/53eb271326a5e7a951cf8778208e9b5e

Ahhh, very good points all around.  I always forget these little differences for non-Windows users.  And personally I break the 'rules' of typing and always only use my left shift and left ctrl, so hadn't considered that factor either. 

That split space tidbit is pretty interesting - it's really hard to get people to buy a one-off oddball keyboard, since it's so different from what people are used to.  If a manufacturer really thinks the design is better, it's best to have as many other manufacturers adopt it as well to make it more prevalent and used.  But of course that's easier to say with hindsight.   

[_rubik]

The huge appeal of the HHKB to most is the Ctrl and Backspace positioning.  Once I got used to it (particularly Backspace) I started reprogramming my other boards to mimic the layout.

I've been using primarily Macs for the last 20 years.  Ctrl is an almost un-used key on the Mac.  It's only used in the command line, and most people (including me) don't use the command line all that heavily.  Our primary key for application shortcuts is Command (⌘), which is found to the immediate left and right of the space bar.  Having a Command key on the right is important, because all the standard app shortcuts are on the left side of the keyboard.  They are ⌘-Q (quit), ⌘-W (close window), ⌘-S (save), ⌘-Z (undo), ⌘-X (cut), ⌘-C (copy), ⌘-V (paste).  Trying to hit the ⌘ key with the same hand as the shortcut key would be awkward.  Just like we use a Shift key with one hand to capitalize letters on the other hand, you want to use your right hand on ⌘ while pressing the shortcut key with your left.  Of course there can be shortcut keys all over the map, so it's nice to have Control-Option-Command on the left and Command-Option-Control on the right.  They are clustered all together (and under the Shift keys too), so it's easy to chord any combination of these keys, and you can do it with either hand to easily hit shortcuts on either side of the keyboard.  This is such a versatile, logical and natural system that I can only shake my head in dismay when I look at something like HHKB.  What in the world were they thinking?

Now I am in the process of moving to Ubuntu, but I find Mac keyboards work very well on Linux.  All I have to do is enter my keyboard layout options and swap the position of the Ctrl and "Win" keys.  Then I've got a nice familiar layout of Super-Alt-Ctrl on the left and Ctrl-Alt-Super on the right.  Ctrl does the same functions on Linux that Command does on a Mac.  Super/Win is basically unused by Linux, but I can configure all my personal shortcuts to use it, to switch workspaces, toggle fullscreen or minimize windows, without any worry about it conflicting with anything else in the system.  Again it's all logical and convenient, and it would all be harder on a HHKB.

As far as backspace is concerned, backspace belongs on the left half of a split spacebar.  For many years it has seemed obvious to me that all spacebars should be split, and backspace should be on the left.  It's not a new innovation either.  Erase-Ease™ keyboards were introduced in the 1990s.  Unfortunately, they were also trademarked and patented(!) at that time, which I believe is the only reason they didn't quickly take over.  The patent didn't expire until 2016, so maybe now this idea can finally start to make a comeback.

And here is what I'm building today → http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/53eb271326a5e7a951cf8778208e9b5e

Ahhh, very good points all around.  I always forget these little differences for non-Windows users.  And personally I break the 'rules' of typing and always only use my left shift and left ctrl, so hadn't considered that factor either. 

That split space tidbit is pretty interesting - it's really hard to get people to buy a one-off oddball keyboard, since it's so different from what people are used to.  If a manufacturer really thinks the design is better, it's best to have as many other manufacturers adopt it as well to make it more prevalent and used.  But of course that's easier to say with hindsight. 

This is one of my largest qualms with OSX. Their reliance on a non-standard key (Command) is more a less a pain. Because I use my Mac so infrequently, I've largely given up on custom layouts. I primarily use i3wm, and the ability to write all my shortcuts and bindings is tremendously helpful.

What's worse is when you start developing on a Mac, and, in my case, use editors like Emacs. I often find myself in the situation of guessing whether the shortcut I'm looking for is Command or Control.

[synth-c]

The keyboard.io Model 01 should have had a plastic body instead of one made of wood. Wood is too heavy & expensive, and i'm terrified that it will crack at the slightest drop.

[lemur]

some people, on some websites, seem to be more concerned with being keyboard product photographers than using keyboards, or discussing their use/care/construction/etc.


I disfavor these people.

[Altis]

some people, on some websites, seem to be more concerned with being keyboard product photographers than using keyboards, or discussing their use/care/construction/etc.


I disfavor these people.

That's normal for hobbies, though... especially ones involving products that can be highly customized (cars, motorcycles, etc).

[Zobeid Zuma]

some people, on some websites, seem to be more concerned with being keyboard product photographers than using keyboards, or discussing their use/care/construction/etc.

I put some of the blame on R/MK, which has a lot more activity than this site.  To get up-voted on R/MK you need a funny meme or a pretty photo.  If there's also a cat in the shot, then it's gold.  It's not such a good venue for deep discussions.

[Blaise170]

some people, on some websites, seem to be more concerned with being keyboard product photographers than using keyboards, or discussing their use/care/construction/etc.

I put some of the blame on R/MK, which has a lot more activity than this site.  To get up-voted on R/MK you need a funny meme or a pretty photo.  If there's also a cat in the shot, then it's gold.  It's not such a good venue for deep discussions.

Just don't say that on Reddit unless you want to be personally attacked. 

[ppp]

some people, on some websites, seem to be more concerned with being keyboard product photographers than using keyboards, or discussing their use/care/construction/etc.

I put some of the blame on R/MK, which has a lot more activity than this site.  To get up-voted on R/MK you need a funny meme or a pretty photo.  If there's also a cat in the shot, then it's gold.  It's not such a good venue for deep discussions.

Just don't say that on Reddit unless you want to be personally attacked. 

tbh, there isn't even a really great way to bring this up.
Bring it up in a post as a comment? It's off-topic.
Bring it up in a meta post? You might get a couple up/downvotes and some people saying that's just what the sub wants.
A lot of subreddits suffer from this where people just want to show off their stuff and real discussion is just too hard to want to read through everything.
You'll get a lot of small posts asking questions/garnering discussion but by and large they'll never reach the front page of the sub.
You gotta sort by new to see those but you'll also see a lot of boring stuff too.
That's why I go to reddit for pretty keyboards and geekhack for actual discussion.

[Blaise170]

Reddit is good for photos more than anything else, but I bring that up because it happened to me. Someone posted my eBay listing with MX Orange switches and I was getting attacked for being a "highway robber". I mentioned that I didn't like Reddit on Deskthority for something unrelated, and someone posted [their first and only post] on DT attacking me again for the same thing.

[captsis]

some people, on some websites, seem to be more concerned with being keyboard product photographers than using keyboards, or discussing their use/care/construction/etc.

I put some of the blame on R/MK, which has a lot more activity than this site.  To get up-voted on R/MK you need a funny meme or a pretty photo.  If there's also a cat in the shot, then it's gold.  It's not such a good venue for deep discussions.

Don't forget shoes and Geekwhack! To the top boys!11!1!1!!!1

[ander]

I'm reasonably intelligent, and have been using computers since the dawn of PCs, and the Internet since the dawn of, er, the Internet. And I can't figure out how to use Reddit. You can sign up and have an account and everything—but then how do you reply to people's posts?

It always leaves me baffled—and it doesn't seem like Reddit themselves care very much about providing any clues. You're just supposed to figure it out, apparently.

So considering how popular it is, I guess this is an unpopular opinion.

[rich1051414]

I'm reasonably intelligent, and have been using computers since the dawn of PCs, and the Internet since the dawn of, er, the Internet. And I can't figure out how to use Reddit. You can sign up and have an account and everything—but then how do you reply to people's posts?

It always leaves me baffled—and it doesn't seem like Reddit themselves care very much about providing any clues. You're just supposed to figure it out, apparently.

So considering how popular it is, I guess this is an unpopular opinion.

I just chose these at random, but looking back... yep. Checks out. Typical reddit.

[dblack]

I'm reasonably intelligent, and have been using computers since the dawn of PCs, and the Internet since the dawn of, er, the Internet. And I can't figure out how to use Reddit. You can sign up and have an account and everything—but then how do you reply to people's posts?

It always leaves me baffled—and it doesn't seem like Reddit themselves care very much about providing any clues. You're just supposed to figure it out, apparently.

So considering how popular it is, I guess this is an unpopular opinion.

Click comments and type in the reply box, or if its an individual comment click rply under the text.

[Blaise170]

I'm reasonably intelligent, and have been using computers since the dawn of PCs, and the Internet since the dawn of, er, the Internet. And I can't figure out how to use Reddit. You can sign up and have an account and everything—but then how do you reply to people's posts?

It always leaves me baffled—and it doesn't seem like Reddit themselves care very much about providing any clues. You're just supposed to figure it out, apparently.

So considering how popular it is, I guess this is an unpopular opinion.

You aren't missing much.

[davkol]

I can't use 40% and classic full-size (especially winkeyless) keyboards for the very same reason.

That might sound weird. A full-size is much larger and has all the keys, right? Well, not if they're in the wrong places.

I touch type with properly alternating hands for modifiers like Shift and all others. Placing a modifier only on one side doesn't cut it then.

What modifiers do I use?

• Obviously Shift, Control and Alt (so far so good),
• but also Super (Windows) for controlling the window manager (tiling windows, moving between workspaces, starting apps with hotkeys),
• AltGraph for typing accents and proper typographic punctuation symbols (Unicode), often in combination with Shift,
• another layer toggle for typing special ANSI punctuation from the home resting position (such as brackets without moving fingers off the home row),
• Fn for arrows embedded on IJKL, nav cluster around it, Fx keys on the number row etc.

2×7=14, what keyboard has that many modifiers?

My ErgoDox does. My 7bit Phantom does with some minor complaints.

IBM Model M (or pretty much any of its clones) doesn't. Neither does any 40% keyboard that I've seen.

(On a related note, I've recently decided against assembling even an Iris, because a pair of thumb keys looked a bit inconveniently placed.)

[Zobeid Zuma]

I touch type with properly alternating hands for modifiers like Shift and all others. Placing a modifier only on one side doesn't cut it then.

The 60% boards that I built might come fairly close to your preferences.  → http://zobeid.zapto.org/misc/zo65.html

I have a lot of history with the Mac platform, so I'm used to having Control–Option–Command and Command–Option–Control on the bottom row.  On a Linux system that translates easily to Super–Alt–Control and Control–Alt–Super.  Since Linux doesn't actually use Super for anything but can read and respond to it, that's perfect for assigning to all my own global shortcuts.  I don't have to worry about it conflicting with anything else in the system.

I don't have or need AltGr, but I did set up a dedicated Compose key which provides similar capabilities.

I only have one Fn layer.  I hadn't thought about putting backets on a layer, but it sounds like a good idea.

Oh, and by the way…  Windows drives me up the wall.  Not only is the Menu key utterly useless, but whose brilliant idea was it to make the Windows key kick me out of the program I'm running if I touch it?  I use Second Life quite a bit, and the modifier keys are used for camera control, which I use all the time, and the Windows key is right there on the bottom row with the other modifiers…  It's madness.  On my Windows machine I finally reassigned the (green) Compose key to be Windows, and made the Super key read as holding down Shift-Alt-Ctrl at the same time.

[Chevy_Monsenhor]

I really, really like my Lenovo Enhanced, i have it for over 5 years and i always come back to it.
I'm using it at my job right now.

[ideus]

I really, really like my Lenovo Enhanced, i have it for over 5 years and i always come back to it.
I'm using it at my job right now.

I really cannot see how this would be unpopular. If you like an off of the shelve keyboard, that's it. I have been a Thinkpad user for eons now and I always replace the keyboards that come with the system, or docking station, they are mushy and I cannot really type comfortably with them. But, that's me. I really use my mechanical keyboards almost always.

[Blaise170]

Depends on who you ask. It would be unpopular among many in the Reddit crowd I'm sure because OMG IT'S RUBBERDOMEH [sic]. But I don't really care what anyone else uses, use what you want to use.

[ideus]

Depends on who you ask. It would be unpopular among many in the Reddit crowd I'm sure because OMG IT'S RUBBERDOMEH [sic]. But I don't really care what anyone else uses, use what you want to use.

Of course. Being a rubber-designed board, it does not really relate with mechanical ones, right?

[Chevy_Monsenhor]

Depends on who you ask. It would be unpopular among many in the Reddit crowd I'm sure because OMG IT'S RUBBERDOMEH [sic]. But I don't really care what anyone else uses, use what you want to use.

Of course. Being a rubber-designed board, it does not really relate with mechanical ones, right?

If you go far enough you can relate these keyboards to Model Ms, because they still retain the curved metal mounting plate to hold the membranes.
And its a decent rubber dome, i like it, but yes, whenever i can have a mechanical keyboard around, i will.

[Blaise170]

By the way, if sound is the issue with mechanical keyboards in the office, there are numerous options these days. I currently use a Matias Laptop Pro with Quiet Click switches, but I've also used others like my Sharp X68000 with Alps SKCL Green which is relatively quiet compared to most mechanicals.

[Chevy_Monsenhor]

By the way, if sound is the issue with mechanical keyboards in the office, there are numerous options these days. I currently use a Matias Laptop Pro with Quiet Click switches, but I've also used others like my Sharp X68000 with Alps SKCL Green which is relatively quiet compared to most mechanicals.

Not only sound but price and availability as well, i've been fantasizing about handwiring a 90%-esque keyboard with Matias switches for the last few days but despite being abble to do it, i lack the hardware to actually make it. Maybe one day i'll get around the idea.

[Blaise170]

Yeah that makes sense. Good luck getting exactly what you want!

[emenelopee]

Miami keysets - I don't get the appeal but they're everywhere.



Miami Nights is a set I covet and I'm bummed I missed the latest MD dump, but the regular Miami confuses.

[davkol]

I touch type with properly alternating hands for modifiers like Shift and all others. Placing a modifier only on one side doesn't cut it then.

The 60% boards that I built might come fairly close to your preferences.  → http://zobeid.zapto.org/misc/zo65.html

You know, I have other preferences too, such as making the keyboard as symmetrical as humanly possible in general.

This is a layout proposal based on Topre Realforce 91U that I always post, because of my insistence on the "extra-wide" mod enabled by JIS right Shift.


That's something I could use and perhaps slightly prefer to my Phantom. Otherwise, 80key ErgoDox it is.

[ubslimpinn]

I can't stand when people say the HHKB is "extremely well made" or similar nonsense. I think this comes from a fetishization of Japanese products typical on reddit. The HHKB is, in reality, not that well made. Don't get me wrong, I love using my HHKB S. But for $300+, the case should actually fit (every HHKB I've seen has a gap on the corners), keys shouldn't whistle, the keys should be straight, and the spacebar stabilizers shouldn't rattle so much. These are basic design flaws that an actually well-made board wouldn't have--and that such an expensive board certainly shouldn't have.

[Giorgio]

DSA feels amazing. GMK is meh.

I find uniform profile keycaps unusable. A couple of days ago I've tried some flat keycaps, and I've found it really annoying to reach the qwerty row, because I need to move the fingers much more. And DSA are horrible keycaps, they're made for people that are dead inside.

[Zobeid Zuma]

You know, I have other preferences too, such as making the keyboard as symmetrical as humanly possible in general.

This is a layout proposal based on Topre Realforce 91U that I always post, because of my insistence on the "extra-wide" mod enabled by JIS right Shift.

Show Image

Well, that's different.  There are some interesting ideas, but I don't accept anything that makes me re-learn how to touch type!  (If I was willing to do that, I'd probably just get a Keyboardio anyhow.)  Also, your bottom row looks to me like a bit of a mess.  I'm not sure why, but for me the bottom row is what really gives a keyboard its identity.

[Zobeid Zuma]

DSA feels amazing. GMK is meh.

I find uniform profile keycaps unusable. A couple of days ago I've tried some flat keycaps, and I've found it really annoying to reach the qwerty row, because I need to move the fingers much more. And DSA are horrible keycaps, they're made for people that are dead inside.

Do you have short fingers?

I don't honestly have much difference in my typing experience between different keycap profiles.  I can type on any of them without thinking much of it.  One thing that does annoy me is when there's no F and J homing bar, then I fumble around some.  Also the more I type on G20, the more I like it.  The wide, flat tops and rounded edges make them comfortable to type fast on, and I can rearrange them freely anywhere on the board without regard to rows.

[davkol]

You know, I have other preferences too, such as making the keyboard as symmetrical as humanly possible in general.

This is a layout proposal based on Topre Realforce 91U that I always post, because of my insistence on the "extra-wide" mod enabled by JIS right Shift.

Show Image

There are some interesting ideas, but I don't accept anything that makes me re-learn how to touch type!

If you type using the standard finger-symbol scheme, the wide mod changes hardly anything but some punctuation and perhaps you'd have to use the other thumb for spacebar. That's it. Then you get a better wrist posture.

[Rayoui]

DSA feels amazing. GMK is meh.

I find uniform profile keycaps unusable. A couple of days ago I've tried some flat keycaps, and I've found it really annoying to reach the qwerty row, because I need to move the fingers much more. And DSA are horrible keycaps, they're made for people that are dead inside.

I hope you never have to use a laptop.

[BobCarltheThird]

DSA feels amazing. GMK is meh.

I find uniform profile keycaps unusable. A couple of days ago I've tried some flat keycaps, and I've found it really annoying to reach the qwerty row, because I need to move the fingers much more. And DSA are horrible keycaps, they're made for people that are dead inside.

I hope you never have to use a laptop.

I mean just build a keyboard for your laptop. Who cares about portability when you have feels