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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Phastor on Sat, 11 February 2012, 14:05:08
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New here, and trying to dive into the world of mechanicals. After reading many descriptions and reviews of various keyboards and switch types, I'm still having a hard time deciding what's best for me. Nothing I read or see seems consistent. For example: My girlfriend just got a Razer Blackwidow Ultimate, which uses Blues. However, this seems contradictory to what I have read considering that this keyboard is touted as a gaming keyboard and I read that Blues are not good for gaming. Other sources tell me that browns are the best non-linear switch for gaming.
I would say that I do an equal amount of typing and gaming. So far, the Blues look attractive to me for having both audible and tactile feedback. I've typed a little on my girlfriend's Blackwidow and do find it enjoyable despite the keys being a little inconsistent with each other. The F(letter) has no bump or click to it. I imagine I won't run into this with a board that has better QC such as a Filco. I haven't had much of a chance to game on it, but I can see how it might take some getting used to seeing as a key has to be almost fully released before another press from the same key can be fully registered. I have not had a chance to try any other switches since the Blackwidow is the only mechanical that has been available to try in my area.
Even though the Blues seem less desirable by others for gaming, they seem to be my top choice at the moment since I think I value typing experience over gaming experience. However, I would like to hear from anyone who happens to use Blues for gaming. What are your thoughts on them? Is the release point really a game breaker? Have you gotten to the point where you can play on them just as well as you would have with browns or even a rubber dome?
As far as the keyboard I currently have my sights set on, I'm looking at a Filco Majestouch 2 Ninja with Blues. Still can't decide over the TK or the TKL version.
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Blues are probably fine if the sound doesn't bother you. The only issue may be if you need to communicate with teammates while playing. They might find it annoying when all they can hear from you is awesome clicking sounds.
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Yeah, I could personally never use a keyboard for gaming with that much clicking. It would just distract me plus the issue with the mic.
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for awhile i've wanted browns, but now i actually think i do prefer blues even while gaming (mostly RTS, some 3rd person RPG). i like the stronger tactile feedback for my purposes
hcry4 is right about needing to talk over your keyboard, but if you have a nicer headset that wouldn't matter.
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The clicking wouldn't be an issue for gaming with me. I'm more worried about the feeling of the keyboard.
Thanks! Keep 'em coming if you got things to share!
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I don't use blues for two reasons:
1) The clicking bothers me.
2) They do not feel smooth enough for me; they give off this scratchy vibe.
Maybe I am just picky...
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I love blues for gaming.
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Ive used blues/reds/browns/blacks. blues are my fav for gaming and to me its the best mech exp to start on. the noise can be distracting in a quiet house with kids bit my little ones dont ever wake from them and im in the next room.
Blacks are nice for gaming if you have or use a heavy hand. they are plain **** to type on abd are my least fav switch out of the 4 main ones. they have a stronger spring and made my fingers tired. these dont have a tactile feel either.
Reds are very nive to type on.as they are much lighter blacks and no tactile feedback. i use reds are at work and love the feel.
Im yet to have a decent run on the browns but they are like blues without the noise with a reduced tactile feel but its still their and i might replace my reds with them next week.
Its a very personal exp though. im very light with my hand thus why i hated blacks and made way to many mistakes when typing. reds have been the most fluid typinh exp closley following by black alps and or blues. alps are something different and to me make blues sound quiet lol.
Id suggest trying the reds/browns/blues. your misses will put that razer pos in the trash when she experiences your filco. i owned one and hated everything about it. filco and razer are worlds apart. excuse my spelling im on my sgs2... Cbf editing my post.
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I got used to blues for playing SC2. I found it to be tons of fun and cool. However I eventually switched to reds, because the noise from my keyboard was freaking out every single person around me. Now that I am used to reds i seem to like them more for both typing and gaming. However I remember being rather happy with my board with blues before.
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Put landing pads or o-rung dampeners on them makes a massive difference for noise when bottoming out.
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I recently realized that I don't like blues for gaming. I've found myself recently not letting go of certain keys due to the bump on the upswing of the switch.
For gaming, you can't beat reds, personally.
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I think it truely is a personal issue. If you like blues so far perhaps that is a safe choice, if however you are unsure I don't think you can go wrong getting browns (tactile point is softer and theres no click but a wiki article does say there really isn't much difference in audible noise rather pitch changes).
It's very easy for personal preferences to form opinions which may or may not be founded on much worth. To some red switches might be a 'cloud of boobs' but is this compared to a brown switch or a membrane? What is the reference point? Some may experience a psuedo double tap issue I can't prove it exists but maybe for them it occurs. Then there are some that prefer typing on linear switches etc etc. I think the best thing to do is go with what you like so far and be happy about it. I don't game much atm just don't seem to have too much time for it but I haven't had an issue with blues but if I had the money i'd probably be on browns overall but that's my preference.
And for your girlfriend's widow I have read that a shot of compressed air can free up what ever is preventing the clicking on the switch.
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i love blues for all (gaming incl.).
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Thanks for all of the feedback. I think I'll stick with the Blues. As I said I was going to get a Filco Majestouch 2 Ninja. Now I just have to decide on TK or TKL. I find myself using my keypad a lot. However, habits can be changed and I would love to have the extra desk space.
Just in case anyone was wondering, I'm running a cheap, old Microsoft Ergonomic at the moment.
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At first I didn't like the blues for gaming but now I simply can't get enough of them; so precise and stable, and LOVE the click feel (can't hear it because I game with headset).
I'd probably like the browns too but I much prefer the blues for actual typing.
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I just love blues for everything. Look I've got two of them!
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plenty of people game with blues, especially if you are talking about RTS. plenty of high level web caster use blue switch based keyboard.
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Never had an issue with gaming on blues... I think the majority of people who don't like the switch for gaming tend to be the people who don't like the audible click that comes with the switch. For me, I don't have my rig in the bedroom and I don't have any flatmates bother with my clicking... It has to be one of my favourite switches I must add. :)
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meh.... blues,blacks I'm still a monster when it comes to FPS games and the blue switch click and tactile bump does not bother me at all what bothers me is that there is barelly any force required to press a key.... but I'm not typist and have strong hands due to my work being physically hard.... I somewhat liked the black but the buckling spring was the best, so since every body says Cherry MX clears are more demanding than blacks to press down + it gives you tactile feedback + somewhat soundless I think clears would be heaven for me.
so here I hope either WASD tenkeyless (when comes out) with clears or Deck Legend with clears.... or both if I have money to waste lol
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I personally love blues for gaming, I went from Brown to Blues for gaming. I think what sold me was when I was playing CSS and had so much fun strafing and feeling the blue's "bump". I wouldn't mind trying some others out but I'm sick of buying selling boards.
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FYI blues,reds,buckilings or whatever... your still pressing as key one way or the other, I think more preferences are needed for typist since thats where a lot skill lays within the typist comfort level .... never mattered to me but if I had to choose I preffer buckling or blacks or clears that I have never tried....
As for gaming you can game on anything,but blacks and reds are praised, I game on blues too and really all same to me....
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I have not tried any other switch type yet but Blues have been absolutely fine for gaming. Maybe this is just because I'm just coming from Rubber Domes. I barely notice the click when I'm gaming because I'm too concentrated (and used to it by now)
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These threads get so old!!!....the type of switch one chooses is so subjective an totally personal...there's no real way to say "The best gaming switch is.." unless you had some kind of a poll that a person might be able to see what "most" people prefer and just take an educated guess. Me myself I prefer cherry reds/w #40 o-ring mod....PERFECT! And I game all the time...but I'm and oddball..... For example, I love MKB's but hate the "clicky/clacky noise of them"..to me it's like buying a Ferrari but wanting it sound like a Model T....why??
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I did use my blues for gaming before I switched to Reds.
They did bother the people I played with at first - but they kinda got used to filtering it out.
I do prefer the reds for gaming, but I'm still getting used to them.
All in all, if the clicking doesn't annoy you (if you are fine with typing on them) the biggest problem will be adjusting your mates to them :P
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I found that it depends on your light/heavy handedness and type of game.
I can see how reds/blues are good for FPS and people who are light-handed. And I personally use blacks for RTS/MMO games, it lets me keymash so much better as I am heavy handed. The heavier springs just feel so much better to me than browns (more mistakes) and reds (that I can't type with at all). I don't care so much for 'tactile feedback' when it comes to games, although I really would like to play on cherry clears one of these days.
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The most concise answer:
They are good for gaming too.
Longer answer:
Many pro gamers (many sponsored by razer, mind you using blackwidows...) use blues. they seem to like them and many of these players are at the highest level in their respective game. Personally I've used browns, blues, and membranes extensively and can say that blues are enjoyable to use while gaming.
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I love blues and I do a ton of gaming. I honestly have no interest in using any other switches for daily use. I also love the noise and well, when my friends are blasting music on their speakers while on skype, I think they can tolerate/deserve a bit of keyboard clicking.
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Maybe one day there will be a keyboard that has "selectable" key tensions..that would be so great....
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I can adapt to MX Blues for gaming. It helps that I naturally tend to release the key all the way before depressing it again, thus getting around the actuation/release point incongruency. However, it is an issue that still bugs a lot of people.
MX Clears would be the ideal out of the whole Cherry switch family, but they're not exactly easy to find.
I don't like linear switches at all, even for gaming, and Browns might as well be linear with that pathetic excuse for a tactile bump. I want to know by feel that the switch did exactly what I wanted, and that's something I only tend to get out of Blues, Clears...and buckling springs.
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More info about what switch you should use for gaming is here in my subforum (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?25889-What-****ing-Cherry-MX-switch-should-I-use-for-gaming-typing).
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I currently use a plate-mounted Access board with blues for daily work+gaming. I enjoy the feedback, both audible and by feel. For playing FPS I do end up switching over to blacks usually.
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I used my IBM Model F (122-key terminal) while gaming recently (I played wow). I was also talking with friends on skype the whole time and they didn't enjoy the clicking, and tbh neither did I. I'm currently using my IBM SSK which has a not so loud click and I'm not bothered by it. Althought I can imagine that most people might think that it's too loud.
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Ask this dude:
[video=youtube;TQHIcGCiskY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQHIcGCiskY&feature=player_embedded#![/video]
That guy is SLOOOOOOWWWWWWWW... ;)
Seriously, though, that annoys me just listening to the video, but it's all about preference. :P
Except...
I used my IBM Model F (122-key terminal) while gaming recently (I played wow). I was also talking with friends on skype the whole time and they didn't enjoy the clicking, and tbh neither did I. I'm currently using my IBM SSK which has a not so loud click and I'm not bothered by it. Althought I can imagine that most people might think that it's too loud.
...Yeah, if you do voice chat while gaming, clicky keyboard would be annoying to others as well.
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I don't see the point in these switch preference for [insert activity here] threads. I could write you a 10 page analysis on why blues are the absolute worst for gaming and that anyone using them is just putting themselves at a disadvantage, but at the end of the day your fingers are gonna make the decision for you.
Also, I wish people would stop posting links of SC2 pros using keyboards like its a good reference for what's a "pro gaming keyboard". They fall into very simple categories: 1) people who actually know and care about keyboards 2) are forced to use certain keyboards due to sponsorship obligations (idk what anyone else says, this is true. oGsMC, now on SK Gaming, used a DT-35 before he switched over to SK) 3) DT-35 Korean ****riders (OMG FLASH AND JAEDONG USE A DT-35 I WILL BE GOSU IF I USE ONE TO KEKEKEKE) 4) people who actually don't care what keyboard they use (basically, every Korean pro uses a DT-35 because that's the keyboard thats in almost every PC bang where they've practiced many times).
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I don't see the point in these switch preference for [insert activity here] threads. I could write you a 10 page analysis on why blues are the absolute worst for gaming and that anyone using them is just putting themselves at a disadvantage, but at the end of the day your fingers are gonna make the decision for you.
Also, I wish people would stop posting links of SC2 pros using keyboards like its a good reference for what's a "pro gaming keyboard". They fall into very simple categories: 1) people who actually know and care about keyboards 2) are forced to use certain keyboards due to sponsorship obligations (idk what anyone else says, this is true. oGsMC, now on SK Gaming, used a DT-35 before he switched over to SK) 3) DT-35 Korean ****riders (OMG FLASH AND JAEDONG USE A DT-35 I WILL BE GOSU IF I USE ONE TO KEKEKEKE) 4) people who actually don't care what keyboard they use (basically, every Korean pro uses a DT-35 because that's the keyboard thats in almost every PC bang where they've practiced many times).
I see it like shoes. Will a pair of shoes alone make you the best runner or basketball player? No. Can a person become the best runner or basketball player with $20 shoes? Yes. Is there any advantage to wearing certain shoes marketed for those sports? Yes. Can certain pairs of shoes give an edge to someone that already has skill? Yes.
So, I don't see any harm in people asking and talking about their preference for certain keyboard switches. I've learned a lot from forum threads like this one. Of course, people have different preferences, but based on what other people wrote, I was able to make an informed purchase, and I now know I love Red switches for gaming. I would have never tried them if it wasn't for threads like this, because I tried Black switches and hated them. I thought I hated the linear nature of them, but I actually just hated the stiffness (I knew that was part, but I didn't know it was pretty much the whole of it).
And you only have to listen to some podcasts with Pro-SC2 gamers to hear their stories about how certain mice and keyboards have helped them. (and not all of them are sponsored by the companies they talk about)
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Here's another one:
[video=youtube;0xRDdBL4aWc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0xRDdBL4aWc[/video]
Is he using Macro keys? Isn't that "illegal?"
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He just rebinds individual keys, not macro sequences.
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I didn't realise it until I went back to full-size domes but I actually adapted fairly quickly to 'ride the bump' on my MX brown boards for FPS gaming. I haven't actually tried blues yet but I suspect there'd be an adaptation period to get that habit out of my usage.
LoL is as close as I get to RTS these days but I bang and stab playing that so there wasn't really any difference.
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DRG uses mx blues last time i checked. Most of the members from the team liquid team uses mx blues since they are sponsored by Razor >.>
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I see it like shoes. Will a pair of shoes alone make you the best runner or basketball player? No. Can a person become the best runner or basketball player with $20 shoes? Yes. Is there any advantage to wearing certain shoes marketed for those sports? Yes. Can certain pairs of shoes give an edge to someone that already has skill? Yes.
So, I don't see any harm in people asking and talking about their preference for certain keyboard switches. I've learned a lot from forum threads like this one. Of course, people have different preferences, but based on what other people wrote, I was able to make an informed purchase, and I now know I love Red switches for gaming. I would have never tried them if it wasn't for threads like this, because I tried Black switches and hated them. I thought I hated the linear nature of them, but I actually just hated the stiffness (I knew that was part, but I didn't know it was pretty much the whole of it).
And you only have to listen to some podcasts with Pro-SC2 gamers to hear their stories about how certain mice and keyboards have helped them. (and not all of them are sponsored by the companies they talk about)
Thank you for understanding that. That is what I'm trying to do here. I understand that the best thing to do is to experience the boards for myself and make a decision based off of that. However, I don't have any connections with with the different variates out there. The next best thing I could think of was to ask and see how others have adapted to a certain switch.
As I've said, I think I value the experience of typing more than I do gaming. I do play games quite a bit, and from what I have read from responses here in addition to the little time I've spent on my girlfriend's Razer (I love typing on it), I think my best option will be getting a blue board. The only problem I can see it possibly giving me is with FPS's. If I'm unable to get used to it for FPS's, I'll just break out my old Belkin Nostromo (http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Nostromo-Speedpad-n50-10-Button/dp/B00005U2DX) and play them on that.
That being said, I ordered a Filco Majestouch 2 (http://www.amazon.com/Filco-Majestouch-2-Keyboard-FKBN104MC-EFB2/dp/B004Z0XS0K/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1329826495&sr=1-2) with blue switches last week. It should be here later today. I'll give an update on how it's working out for me in a week or so.
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He just rebinds individual keys, not macro sequences.
Yeah. That makes sense. I still sometimes forget that rebinding keys is so easy and common in SC2 since I played Brood War more than SC2, at this point. And even when I did play SC2, I didn't rebind any keys. I got used to the idea that all competitive SC players had to use the same layout. :P
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I've been using my new Filco for a couple weeks now and I couldn't be happier. Typing has never been more enjoyable and it hasn't been much of an issue with games. The one issue I have doesn't even have anything to do with the key switches themselves. I've been using an ergonomic for so long that now I'm finding that the alt, ctrl, and shift keys aren't where I expect them to be. I've only had an issue with this while gaming, however, and it hasn't affected my actual typing.
I haven't tested it, but I do feel like my speed has improved a bit since I got the keyboard, despite my bottoming out on the keys. I've been trying to train myself not to bottom out since I know I'm not taking full advantage of the tactile feel of the switches by doing so, but it has proven to be a difficult habit to break. When I'm thinking about it I can slow down and keep myself from doing it, but after my mind goes elsewhere, I will catch myself smacking away at them again. I guess it will take some time.
Overall, I am very happy with the keyboard and don't think I will ever go back. Thank you for all of the tips and shared experiences.
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Great,
I also have a Filco with blues and I came from a MX reds. Gaming and typing, I prefer the blues much more. It feels more satisfying with every key stroke. The clickily clack bothered me at first but I've gotten used to it, I did however add soft landing pads because I tend to bottom out.
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I'm interested to see if anyone here plays Rhythm games. I'm not much of a gamer, only game I play is DJMAX Trilogy which requires a lot of key bashing. I like blues for almost everything but not for playing Rhythm games. Sound or tactile feel doesn't really bother me. Even heavier BS keys feels much better than blues for playing DJMAX. Not quite sure why.
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I game with my blues..mainly because it's my only board :D, but I really don't mind it. I play anything from fps to rts to mmo, and I've never really had any complaints about it. I also recently put o rings on and actually enjoy typing on it a lot more, and it feels better while playing starcraft too.
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Blues are fine for playing Worms …
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Here's another one:
[video=youtube;0xRDdBL4aWc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0xRDdBL4aWc[/video]
T.I. playing in the background?
hm, i figured nothing but techno would be played in gaming tournaments (dont ask me why)
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Ask this dude:
[video=youtube;TQHIcGCiskY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQHIcGCiskY&feature=player_embedded#![/video]
Am I the only one that watched this expecting that bwu to explode into dust being used that hard? xD
Wanted to also add. I use blues and have never had anyone complain about it while gaming over skype etc. I would just find new team mates if people complained. :D
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You have to release before you actuate. Thus meaning Mx blue switches do not function.
Am I doin it ryte?
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Blues are good for gaming.
The amount of noise they make is grossly exaggerated. I'm not as smart as Ripster, or I would coin a term for this phenomenon, like: "Noise Exaggeration Syndrome" or "Henny-Penny hears a noise" or something.
Anyway, OP ur gonna love ur MX blues.
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Nah, THIS part.
Saywhat?
So if you NEVER tried a mechanical Cherry Blues are for you?
It's pretty clear to me,, other switches have both actuate and release at the same point,, so "people who have" tried other switches may notice this difference on the BLUE switch,, where the two points are about 1mm apart.
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It's pretty clear to me,, other switches have both actuate and release at the same point,, so "people who have" tried other switches may notice this difference on the BLUE switch,, where the two points are about 1mm apart.
Release point is higher than the actuation point on blues if I am right?
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I use my Leopold Tenkeyless with Blues for all my gaming. I play at a competitive level in League of Legends, I play dota, and I used to play CS at a competitive level. IMO i enjoy the blues 1000x more then I did blacks.
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So the trick to double tapping with Cherry Blues is to not use a Mechanical Keyboard previously.
Yeah.
Right.
The trick is to tap that suckah like you MEAN it!
Has the creator of the OCN Mechanical keyboard guide been told to fix the guide? Or even to fix it? It's ridiculous how many people read that guide before yours.
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I did use a BWU (cherry blues) for world of warcraft for abit. On and off arenas to 1600-1800 rating only though. I didn't find it annoying or anything.
However, I think if double tapping is absolutely essential (which isn't for me) I'll go with another board ;p
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I love cherry mx blues for gaming. Whoever started the rumor that blues suck for double tapping is a sheep who over speculates and theorycrafts. Empirically, these switches work great for gaming and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Edit: I actually wasted money buying a cherry brown TKL board because of the OCN guide and sold it to buy a board with cherry blues after I tried a Razer Blackwidow at best buy.
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I'm so close to ordering my first mech keyboard (with blue switches)....
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Blues are totally fine for gaming, and I don't know why everyone loves to exaggerate how bad they are for double clicking or how they accidentally press on them when they rest their hands. Blues are awesome, and they work just fine if you need to double tap. Also they honestly are just about as loud as my old G15 but they sound much nicer.
Blues are good for gaming.
The amount of noise they make is grossly exaggerated. I'm not as smart as Ripster, or I would coin a term for this phenomenon, like: "Noise Exaggeration Syndrome" or "Henny-Penny hears a noise" or something.
Anyway, OP ur gonna love ur MX blues.
+1 for this guy
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anyone here find blues to be more tiring to type on than reds or browns?
Not at all, exactly the opposite. The sound Blues make is so sexy i barely notice what im typing.
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Blues are amazing for gaming. I played plenty of SC2 and other games with blues without a hitch.
Again, something about personal preference...