[IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60 (GB start)

[o3okevin]

was blown away with my fox leaf 80 so in for this one even though I don't like 60%

How I feel exactly, definitely down for a leaf 60

[senter]

E6 had 19mm bottom row spacing and 00 had the gasket in between pcb and plate, so they needed custom pcbs. The mounting on this design doesnt interfere with standard 60% pcbs, so you could just accomodate for those instead.

Unless there is a hindrance to topside usb that could happen.

Just my 2cents.

GSKT-00 and E6-V2 are both great boards and both use proprietary PCBs.

We used our own pcb for the 00 for very specific fitment reasons.  Those reasons do not seem to apply in this case because of how the "gasketing" is being performed. 

Just for clarification.

Thanks for clarifying. I said the reasons why I want to use a proprietary PCB. Mentioning 00 and E6 was just for providing evidence that 60% proprietary PCBs are not that rare. I believe E6 and 00 both have good reasons as well.
There are always tradeoffs. I can't say which option is definitely better than another. I'm glad people brought it up and discuss it in details. I'll make decisions based on the discussion here.

[senter]

I love everything about this. When are you looking at running it?

I don't care much about the timing so the GB will be launched when everything is settled.
The overall design is finished. Next, I'll make some small changed on the design and make several prototypes.
It can be very fast if I'm satisfied with the result.

[azharkh]

this would probably add a bit to the cost but have you thought of maybe having a universal cutout but also having the option of using an adapter of sorts that is a perfect fit for a proprietary PCB? that way you can have the perfect fit that you want while giving people the option of universal compatibility

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[senter]

looks really good. i don't mind the proprietary pcb as long as i can have hhkb with split space bar. it would be really awesome if this turns out extra heavy, i'm talking like 2kg+

like full brass heavy?

[senter]

this would probably add a bit to the cost but have you thought of maybe having a universal cutout but also having the option of using an adapter of sorts that is a perfect fit for a proprietary PCB? that way you can have the perfect fit that you want while giving people the option of universal compatibility

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

universal cutout is large and ugly. That's the main reason I don't like it. Keeping the universal cutout then there's no reason I want to make a proprietary PCB.

[azharkh]

this would probably add a bit to the cost but have you thought of maybe having a universal cutout but also having the option of using an adapter of sorts that is a perfect fit for a proprietary PCB? that way you can have the perfect fit that you want while giving people the option of universal compatibility

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

universal cutout is large and ugly. That's the main reason I don't like it. Keeping the universal cutout then there's no reason I want to make a proprietary PCB.

I meant like you could have an adapter that would fit into the universal hole so it would no longer be universal allowing a proprietary PCB to fit perfectly in it while giving people the option to remove the adapter, making the hole universal again.

not sure if that made sense but hopefully you get my idea

that being said I do prefer tight cutouts

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[cldskt]

I’d much prefer tight USB cutout, but share the same concern with others about the hassle of replacing proprietary PCB if need be.

[senter]

I meant like you could have an adapter that would fit into the universal hole so it would no longer be universal allowing a proprietary PCB to fit perfectly in it while giving people the option to remove the adapter, making the hole universal again.

not sure if that made sense but hopefully you get my idea

that being said I do prefer tight cutouts

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Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, that's a solution. However, the border of the current design is not that large that put an adapter there. Enlarging the border and using an adapter is too much just for making a tight cutout imo.

[airlangga07]

Id definitely in! maybe for PC one...


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[azharkh]

I meant like you could have an adapter that would fit into the universal hole so it would no longer be universal allowing a proprietary PCB to fit perfectly in it while giving people the option to remove the adapter, making the hole universal again.

not sure if that made sense but hopefully you get my idea

that being said I do prefer tight cutouts

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, that's a solution. However, the border of the current design is not that large that put an adapter there. Enlarging the border and using an adapter is too much just for making a tight cutout imo.

it's definitely not ideal and I too would prefer to have a non universal cutout but based on the responses it's starting to seem like a necessary compromise

edit: I had an another idea: instead of using an adapter, perhaps it could also work as a badge/accent of sorts. like you'd slot it into place (think GBA cartridge style-ish) and it'd look like an accent or badge and you'd have one that had a universal hole and one that had a proprietary hole. that wouldn't require enlarging the border and it would add a design element. just an idea.

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[vtachkov]

I might be in for a PC one, even though I'm not that big of a fan of 60%. Please tell me that after this is going to be the leaf 65%

[Albatross]

Interested in a PC HHKB variant

Will there also be PC plates available?

[weaston]

Thanks for clarifying. I said the reasons why I want to use a proprietary PCB. Mentioning 00 and E6 was just for providing evidence that 60% proprietary PCBs are not that rare. I believe E6 and 00 both have good reasons as well.
There are always tradeoffs. I can't say which option is definitely better than another. I'm glad people brought it up and discuss it in details. I'll make decisions based on the discussion here.

Yes agreed I can't say either.  Regardless this looks really awesome and the Leaf quality impressed the absolute hell out of me, so more power to you guys in whatever way you choose.  I hope it turns out great. 

[DJSwayde]

Would you offer fixed ISO plate?

[AlcoholEnthusiast]

Initially I was on board with universal PCB (and still wouldn't be mad if that happened). But after someone brought up the M60 USB port and how clean it looked i think I kind of agree with proprietary PCB now if the end result is looking super clean like that one did. Kind of wanted to make this board a hotswap, but I don't mind using another board for that.

[Deathcaps]

Yeah, i really want one of these. pls keep the hhkb/wkl option

[trg1234]

Initially I was on board with universal PCB (and still wouldn't be mad if that happened). But after someone brought up the M60 USB port and how clean it looked i think I kind of agree with proprietary PCB now if the end result is looking super clean like that one did. Kind of wanted to make this board a hotswap, but I don't mind using another board for that.

Honestly it's just a tossup between aesthetics and customizability I believe at this point. I'm all for aesthetics, but I also want features that I'm not sure other people want such as hotswap and usb c compatibility.

[Gati]

This is gonna sound pretty ignorant, but couldn’t it be possible to design the case around a PCB already on the market (like a DZ60)?

[senter]

Would you offer fixed ISO plate?

Only if there are enough interests. I doubt it now so no. Sorry.

[senter]

Interested in a PC HHKB variant

Will there also be PC plates available?

I haven't thought about it tbh.

I asked the factory to source PC materials and they didn't even find clear PC materials for the case until now. They only sourced opaque materials.
PC plate + gasket sounds interesting. Let me see if it's possible.

[senter]

This is gonna sound pretty ignorant, but couldn’t it be possible to design the case around a PCB already on the market (like a DZ60)?

I believe most people here are familiar with this but let me clarify it to those who don't.
Most 60% PCBs, including DZ60, have the same USB port position. It's in the middle of the ESC key and 1 key.
Many 60% cases were designed for supporting these PCBs.
However, many PCBs have different USB female port with slightly different dimensions, some use USB C ports, some even have slightly off-center positions.
As a result, in order to support all the 60% PCBs, the USB port cutout must be very large.

What you asked is to support a specific 60% PCB. What some other people asked is to support most 60% PCBs with a large cutout. What I intended to do is to make a perfect cutout like on M60-A like someone mentioned.

[gabetjh]

will u plan to make it hot swappable or at least design the pcb to allow socket installation?


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[ian13]

That purple, though!

[temp0321]

Universal pcb would be great as I'm one of the people who wants to use the hot swap pcb into this beautiful case.

[Gondolindrim]

I don't particularly mind the proprietary PCB, as long as the case is tightly made to fit it -- which I think is the idea here. What I wouldn't recommend though is an ALPS compatible circuit board, because the PCB holes get too wide and you'd need too much sodder to fill them. I'd also like it to be Mini USB and not USBC as I have has problems with the latter being too delicate.

If the price is in the 250 range, count me in.

[HardcoreDesk]

Please stick with the proprietary PCB. Universal cutouts look ugly and, personally speaking, on a high-end board like this I'd rather have every aspect of the board be deliberate for the best looks and feel. Having to sacrifice looks to accommodate accessibility is something I don't really care for in a board, and I'm sure many others feel the same.

[Puddsy]

miniUSB/USBC only cutout in universal position is probably the most elegant compromise

but also, its your board, and there are plenty of good boards with their own PCBs, as was mentioned before

just depends on who your ideal buyer is for the kit

[meiosis]

This is gonna sound pretty ignorant, but couldn’t it be possible to design the case around a PCB already on the market (like a DZ60)?

I believe most people here are familiar with this but let me clarify it to those who don't.
Most 60% PCBs, including DZ60, have the same USB port position. It's in the middle of the ESC key and 1 key.
Many 60% cases were designed for supporting these PCBs.
However, many PCBs have different USB female port with slightly different dimensions, some use USB C ports, some even have slightly off-center positions.
As a result, in order to support all the 60% PCBs, the USB port cutout must be very large.

What you asked is to support a specific 60% PCB. What some other people asked is to support most 60% PCBs with a large cutout. What I intended to do is to make a perfect cutout like on M60-A like someone mentioned.

I think a good option is to add usb C-> miniusb converter/adapter since they are so cheap haha. and since USB c looks nicer with smaller cut out it should be okay.

[Puddsy]

This is gonna sound pretty ignorant, but couldn’t it be possible to design the case around a PCB already on the market (like a DZ60)?

I believe most people here are familiar with this but let me clarify it to those who don't.
Most 60% PCBs, including DZ60, have the same USB port position. It's in the middle of the ESC key and 1 key.
Many 60% cases were designed for supporting these PCBs.
However, many PCBs have different USB female port with slightly different dimensions, some use USB C ports, some even have slightly off-center positions.
As a result, in order to support all the 60% PCBs, the USB port cutout must be very large.

What you asked is to support a specific 60% PCB. What some other people asked is to support most 60% PCBs with a large cutout. What I intended to do is to make a perfect cutout like on M60-A like someone mentioned.

I think a good option is to add usb C-> miniusb converter/adapter since they are so cheap haha. and since USB c looks nicer with smaller cut out it should be okay.

this is also a good idea

[dantambok]

Yes definitely into this one. really interested for a polycarb and i like the idea of using a universal PCB more

[hhkbp2]

Gasket mount 60%. Nice.

Sure the USB port cutout is not pretty if all types of Mini-USB, USB-C universal PCBs are supported. It would be a "close" compromise if it supports one type only, for example USB-C, when tight cutout is preferred.

Take a step further, if we go to proprietary PCB, the cutout should be right in the middle for aesthetics, like M60, Viper, E6, etc.. I think it's also a good choice for a tight cutout in this case.

IMO it will go too far to have a usb cutout on the right, which looks like a bit randomly positioned in current render picture.

[bthezebra]

Can't wait still gotta build leaf tkl.

[Rafa_n]

Will there be any proxies or will it be zfrontier only?

[dado brat]

looks really good. i don't mind the proprietary pcb as long as i can have hhkb with split space bar. it would be really awesome if this turns out extra heavy, i'm talking like 2kg+

like full brass heavy?

Well, I was thinking about something in the range of the M60-a with internal weight (2.2kg I think). I don't know much about PVD brass, but if you could manage to make those dank colors (like in the renders) i would be really intrigued to try full brass. Another option would be a 3-5mm brass plate as an extra or something like that

[trg1234]

Will there be like a poll or something at the end to see the opinions.

[1023andy]

Is this compatible with alps switches? White leaf60 and aek keycap would look nice

[mnpq.raven]

Looking forward to more info & updates of E-coating prototypes!

[Vigrith]

Polycarb HHKB? Let's go.

[112227]

missed out on the leaf 80, WILL NOT miss this one. I too would love to see it in yellow.

[AlcoholEnthusiast]

Can someone eli5 what E-coating is?

[112227]

Just saw where the USB port is located. 

[beekey]

[double post]

[mnpq.raven]

Would prefer support for standard 60%, but I see the point of going for style. Sadly, PCBs break and then you have an expensive piece of art to look at.

As long as it supports split space I would still be interested. But please provide the option to buy a replacement PCB.

What do you mean PCBs break ? They are not going to snap like toothpicks easily

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[beekey]

Beautiful case with WKL and split space layout support. 

Sadly, PCBs break and then it is hard to get replacements.  As I don‘t see the back of the case that often, I vote for funtionality over style. So, I would prefer standard 60% support, but as long as we can get additional PCBs I would be in.

[Legoo]

Would probably be interested in a PC case with Alps switches, looks really nice !

[beekey]

Would prefer support for standard 60%, but I see the point of going for style. Sadly, PCBs break and then you have an expensive piece of art to look at.

As long as it supports split space I would still be interested. But please provide the option to buy a replacement PCB.

What do you mean PCBs break ? They are not going to snap like toothpicks easily

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Sorry, break = die. I damaged one while switching from one case to another. Could not find the cause.

[senter]

will u plan to make it hot swappable or at least design the pcb to allow socket installation?


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I may provide two versions of PCBs. One supports multiple layouts and without sockets. One supports a single layout and with sockets.

[senter]

What I wouldn't recommend though is an ALPS compatible circuit board, because the PCB holes get too wide and you'd need too much sodder to fill them.

Is that very bad? Solders are cheap.

I'd also like it to be Mini USB and not USBC as I have has problems with the latter being too delicate.

any evidence USB C is more delicate than Mini USB? I always thought Mini is delicate tbh

[Vigrith]

any evidence USB C is more delicate than Mini USB? I always thought Mini is delicate tbh

Agreed, after about a year of switching between dailies using Mini and C, C feels way more robust; not to mention it's infinitely more convenient, but everyone knows that already.