[IC] Doubleshot 87 Key Red on Black Keyset

[tsangan]

I like it, I'll see what I can do.

[demik]

Thanks tsangan and rag!

[litster]

Woohoo!  1.5x modifiers and 7x spacebars!

[7bit]

Okay so this is on for sure, and I will be starting it up next week. Its time for everyone to get their input in on what they would like to do with modifier keys, though as many of you may know this is meant to be pretty standard and the simpler the better. I am perfectly content with just using the standard for everything, and the only custom legend being the execute key. If you guys want to play with the modiifers you can, but it may or may not work for Melissa or myself, so no promises.

Again, I would greatly like to see 50 sets, because it is much cheaper for everyone. If we get really close to that, I will buy a couple of extras (no more than 3-4) to give everyone the discount and share it. I will then sell those off for whatever profit I can make, but if I do that odds are that I won't be able to sell them quickly or at all, since everyone interested will likely already have one.

OK, I will throw it out and give you the list who was interested in this, so you don't need to start from 0.
 
BLOOD/STANDARD................12
BLOOD/TKL.....................10

I recommend to add 1.5 units Alt and Control and an optional J-shape Exec for the foreign people.



Good luck!

[IPT]

whatever gets finalized, i'll take 2 sets =)

[AKIMbO]

I'm so in on this Group Buy.  I was hella disappointed that 7bits group buy price for the blood set was so high.  As for preferences, I'm down with whatever honestly...so long as the price comes in below $80.

Edit: Down for 1 set.

[fstop]

I'm down for 1, maybe two sets.

[DanGWanG]

I was on the R4 list so I'm definitely in for 1.  Not getting a phantom so don't need the extra set

[tsangan]

I was on the R4 list so I'm definitely in for 1.  Not getting a phantom so don't need the extra set

Gotta plan for the future.

Watch you be looking for one of these add-on sets a few months from now

[FourOhFour]

Replace super control and meta with Ctrl Alt and Win/Apple?

If you mean one key with both Win and Cmd (or command, apple, whatever) legends, I'd suggest against it. While on a PC keyboard the Win key becomes Cmd, it's in the wrong position so many Mac users (well, me, at least) swap cmd and opt (win and alt) so they are in the correct positions. Since I use the same keyboard on both a PC and a Mac, if the keys had both legends, I'd want alt/cmd and win/opt. But I'm sure others would rather have alt/opt and win/cmd since they don't remap keys. I'd probably stick with PC legends, myself.

Plus if you really want to Mac-ify it, you'd need F13, F14, and F15 for print screen, scroll lock, and pause/break. And delete instead of backspace. And forward delete instead of delete. And a blank for menu. Probably not worth it.

Esc instead of Escape

I'd prefer (slightly) escape, myself. And control over ctrl.

Print Screen instead of Print, pause/break instead of pause???
Slightly smaller letters, but not really small, basically the standard modern size. That may just be the image ?
Arrows on the shift keys and tab key?
Arrows on the up down left right keys

No preference on any of this.

As long as the price stays low, I'm in for one.

[DanGWanG]

Perhaps I'll buy one

[tsangan]

Perhaps I'll buy one

Knowing you, it's just a matter of time before you get a 1.5x modifier keyboard

[bavman]

I'm still in for a set

[DanGWanG]

Knowing you, it's just a matter of time before you get a 1.5x modifier keyboard

Can't spend any more money!!!!

[gridlock]

I'd be interested in a set for my cm storm...

I like the way you think my good sir

[metafour]

Plus if you really want to Mac-ify it, you'd need F13, F14, and F15 for print screen, scroll lock, and pause/break. And delete instead of backspace. And forward delete instead of delete. And a blank for menu. Probably not worth it.

The last Apple keyboard I purchased, the wireless one that came out before the last Lion update, doesn't have F13-F15. I'm not trying to Mac-ify it to the point of matching older Apple keyboards but really don't want the windows logo on there even though I do the same thing as you; swap the windows/command and alt keys. This is why I'm suggesting something more generic, sort of the middle road if you will.

While I'd prefer a command key, I'd take something generic over the windows logo. I.e. I'd rather have Control, Super, Alt and Meta.

[demik]

Can't spend any more money!!!!

that doesn't mean you shouldn't buy it!!!!

on prt scrn/pause.. would it be possible for them to "ninja" print sys rq and break?

i mean, it is possible because my retro set has it but.. i wonder how much they'd do it for.

[placebo guy]

Put me down for a set too.

Couldn't figure out Group Buy Round 4.  Read backwards 70 pages and gave up.

[WorldExclusive]

I'm still interested, add me to the list.

[metafour]

on prt scrn/pause.. would it be possible for them to "ninja" print sys rq and break?

i mean, it is possible because my retro set has it but.. i wonder how much they'd do it for.

They'll probably charge more than for a PBT spacebar...

[fstop]

Put me down for a set too.

Couldn't figure out Group Buy Round 4.  Read backwards 70 pages and gave up.

It's a shame that the GB is such a mess. So much time and effort put into by 7bit but yeah, it is intimidating. So much good stuff being offered... maybe too much. Hope I can get a set from this and round4 eventually. Since this isn't being offered in that buy anymore, I'm glad someone else is offering it.

[Zehkul]

Interested in ISO.



I was one of those willing to pay 130$ for it in Group Buy 4, by the way.

[Soulpyre]

Any chance there will be a 104 standard set available? or maybe a separate numpad kit? I know your trying to keep this as simple as possible.

I was in the round 4 group buy too.

[Rinzler]

I'll take a set.

[Ragnorock]

Anyways, was away for a while this afternoon, I have been considering an add on kit for 104 keys, same as the one that offers Phantom compatibility, and offering both... but those all depend on the price. It is a lot more "special" to do the phantom keys, but like I said I will give it a shot. Will talk to Melissa next week about all of it. Till then we have the weekend for me to get everything set in stone for a proposal.

Not sure if srs, but ISO compatibility is yet another kit that I do not plan to offer, but if it isn't that big of a difference, it could be incorporated into the 104 kit. I'm a little out of the keyboard frame of mind at the moment, so I hope that makes sense. Also I could do with a refresher on what would be needed for an ISO add on kit. 104 is simple, so I think I can manage to figure out what that kit needs.

I hope you guys see now why I want to keep this simple, it can get really complicated fast by offering lots of different configurations. That is the same problem that 7bit ran into with Round 4. It is fantastic from an opportunity standpoint, but its complication leads to not a lot of anything being bought at all.

[mkawa]

50 bucks is a deal for a good set of doubleshots, so i'm in insofar as it gets done right -- that means the keys get proofed, and it gets ordered and shipped in a timely manner. that also means we don't spend years waiting for people to impose a contradictory and bizarre set of constraints on things

[WorldExclusive]

Anyways, was away for a while this afternoon, I have been considering an add on kit for 104 keys, same as the one that offers Phantom compatibility, and offering both... but those all depend on the price. It is a lot more "special" to do the phantom keys, but like I said I will give it a shot. Will talk to Melissa next week about all of it. Till then we have the weekend for me to get everything set in stone for a proposal.

Not sure if srs, but ISO compatibility is yet another kit that I do not plan to offer, but if it isn't that big of a difference, it could be incorporated into the 104 kit. I'm a little out of the keyboard frame of mind at the moment, so I hope that makes sense. Also I could do with a refresher on what would be needed for an ISO add on kit. 104 is simple, so I think I can manage to figure out what that kit needs.

I hope you guys see now why I want to keep this simple, it can get really complicated fast by offering lots of different configurations. That is the same problem that 7bit ran into with Round 4. It is fantastic from an opportunity standpoint, but its complication leads to not a lot of anything being bought at all.

I think offering one kit is enough. It will only split the order and some kits may not reach the desired cost for some and they'll back out.
87-key or 104-key, not both. ISO? better luck next time. I really want this one to go through.

[litster]

I think offering one kit is enough. It will only split the order and some kits may not reach the desired cost for some and they'll back out.
87-key or 104-key, not both. ISO? better luck next time. I really want this one to go through.

I think you are confused with "kit" and "add-on kit".  

The 87 kit will be the "base" kit.  if you want a 104 set, you would get the base 87-key kit, then get the 104 add-on kit which doesn't actually have 104 keys, but has just the numpad keys to bring the 87-key base kit to 104 keys for a full size keyboard.  Similarly for ISO kit if that happens.  Add-on kits would not lower the numbers of sets for the base kit.  Some kits may not get enough orders and remain expensive, but having the add-on kits will only increase the demand of the base 87-key kit.

[kaiserreich]

interested in a 87-set.
Please do the 1.5x control + alt etc. front row.

[metafour]

I hope you guys see now why I want to keep this simple, it can get really complicated fast by offering lots of different configurations. That is the same problem that 7bit ran into with Round 4. It is fantastic from an opportunity standpoint, but its complication leads to not a lot of anything being bought at all.

I'm with you here. ISO, 104, Phantom, 1.5 modifiers...
Once the gates are open it's impossible to stop the flood. 87 keys; short, simple, and sweet. Let someone else do the group buys for add-ons.

[balanar]

I understand how having the add on kit actually increases the orders for the base 87 hence lowering the price but it will only create a bigger headache for you and slow down the entire process. I'm hoping for a GB like the one hatusharu did: uncomplicated & fast.

[jinhan108]

I'm very interested in an 87 key set plus an addon kit! Please take my money!

[mkawa]

imo there's a certain amount of accommodation that's fine. optional 104 key layout: ok, maybe fine; there are lots of people with modern 104 boards. 1.5x, weird phantom layouts, etc? probably not. if _you_ want these things _you_ are going to need to buy 50 of them (or personally find 50 people willing to buy and pay on time) and help rag do organization, sorting, shipping, etc..

personally, i want some things that aren't covered by this (centered text, white background), etc. but i realize that this is an interest check for a very simple modern red on black tkl order, so it is what it is.

[tsangan]

imo there's a certain amount of accommodation that's fine. optional 104 key layout: ok, maybe fine; there are lots of people with modern 104 boards. 1.5x, weird phantom layouts, etc? probably not. if _you_ want these things _you_ are going to need to buy 50 of them (or personally find 50 people willing to buy and pay on time) and help rag do organization, sorting, shipping, etc..

personally, i want some things that aren't covered by this (centered text, white background), etc. but i realize that this is an interest check for a very simple modern red on black tkl order, so it is what it is.

There will be more people ordering my 9 keys add-on key compared to 104 keys kit FOR SURE.

104 kit will not add on buyers, from my point of view because I rarely ever see people go "Oh damn I wish that had 104 keys instead of 87 keys" while I do see "Damn I wish it has 1.5x/1.25x modifier instead"

[mkawa]

if tsangan is right then **** 104

anyway if this happens for 40/ea i'll need two to populate my phantoms.


anyway i think if there is a market for add-ons, the way to do this is to first collect enough confirmed buys to justify the add-on (i would say 37 or so to guarantee price), THEN bring that list of buyers to rag so he can contact SP. with all due respect to 7bit, one of things that makes everything so difficult is that he's exchanging hundreds of emails with SP about things that may or may not be purchased; this just turns SP off to the whole deal, as it's still a relatively small order, and on top of that they're having to pay a ton in terms of sales rep labor to get this tiny, incredibly complex order. it's also incredibly hard to proof because there are so many variations. basically, it sounds like a nightmare to everyone involved.

[tsangan]

I hope you guys see now why I want to keep this simple, it can get really complicated fast by offering lots of different configurations. That is the same problem that 7bit ran into with Round 4. It is fantastic from an opportunity standpoint, but its complication leads to not a lot of anything being bought at all.

I'm with you here. ISO, 104, Phantom, 1.5 modifiers...
Once the gates are open it's impossible to stop the flood. 87 keys; short, simple, and sweet. Let someone else do the group buys for add-ons.

The difference is R4 they offered every language, every format, RGB, symbols, and many other stuff that got 1 order. What I was proposing is something that is literally what a lot of people want, please refer to the last 3 pages of this thread. You got what 1 person asking for a 104? Another 1 asking for ISO?

I understand how having the add on kit actually increases the orders for the base 87 hence lowering the price but it will only create a bigger headache for you and slow down the entire process. I'm hoping for a GB like the one hatusharu did: uncomplicated & fast.

It only becomes a headache if you let it get out of hand by offering everything

anyway i think if there is a market for add-ons, the way to do this is to first collect enough confirmed buys to justify the add-on (i would say 37 or so to guarantee price), THEN bring that list of buyers to rag so he can contact SP. with all due respect to 7bit, one of things that makes everything so difficult is that he's exchanging hundreds of emails with SP about things that may or may not be purchased; this just turns SP off to the whole deal, as it's still a relatively small order, and on top of that they're having to pay a ton in terms of sales rep labor to get this tiny, incredibly complex order. it's also incredibly hard to proof because there are so many variations. basically, it sounds like a nightmare to everyone involved.

Why do you need 37~ confirm buys? Get the price tier as normal if you're going to get an add-on kit pay the price end of story, it will NOT hinder the people just buying the 87 key base set, if you want the versatility of using this on other then a modern 1.25x

I have contacted Melissa tons of times and trust me it's not hard it took me like 3 emails to figure out pricing for stuff, it does not get complex once again, people seem to have nightmares from what Round 4 has created.

[gilgam]

Hello

i haven't read the whole thread but
is there a chance to get some iso variation (at least a left iso 1.25 and a J shaped return ? )
I will take one if it's possible.
Thanks

PS please update the first post :-)

[ekw808]

Retro!

[kaiserreich]

Or you can keep them really simple by doing the Red Alert style order.

Everything included, and just 1 option to choose from.
They managed to keep the price pretty decent, compared to what R4 has become.

[kikkobots]

i'm interested. what is the order number up to?

so with all this phantom stuff, all these keys will fit my cmstorm? i'm a newbie. thanks

[balanar]

^ This I think is fine as long as the price is indeed reasonable. Don't think the people who need just 87 keys like me would mind since we're technically 'covered' if we ever wanna make the switch to a full sized board.

[demik]

Or you can keep them really simple by doing the Red Alert style order.

Everything included, and just 1 option to choose from.
They managed to keep the price pretty decent, compared to what R4 has become.

Red alert was "pretty decent" because two diff forums were in on it

[hazeluff]

Depending on the orders you may find that 104 is close to 87 in price and people won't mind the difference. But in the case where it is significant, I would say it's best to have a 87 + addon model.

[tsangan]

Or you can keep them really simple by doing the Red Alert style order.

Everything included, and just 1 option to choose from.
They managed to keep the price pretty decent, compared to what R4 has become.

^ This I think is fine as long as the price is indeed reasonable. Don't think the people who need just 87 keys like me would mind since we're technically 'covered' if we ever wanna make the switch to a full sized board.

It was only reasonable because of how many sets were ordered. That number is unreachable for us i can guarantee that, if we get 1/3 of amount in orders I would be surprised already

[balanar]

I'm thinking its reasonable to expect more than 30 less than 50 orders for the 87 key set and less than 15 orders for the 'add on'. What kind of prices would we be looking at in this scenario?

Edit: Thought better of the numbers and reduced them.

[tsangan]

I'm thinking its reasonable to expect more than 30 less than 50 orders for the 87 key set and less than 15 orders for the 'add on'. What kind of prices would we be looking at in this scenario?

Edit: Thought better of the numbers and reduced them.

Less then 15 sets for the 9 keys add on? I think you are greatly underestimating the amount of people that want that, the fact that you can add a bit more and have this set be compatible with A LOT more keyboards is a small price to pay

[balanar]

True, what you say makes sense. Even I wouldn't mind having the extra keys. Would the pricing for the 9 key set be alot higher if it were just an add on as opposed to a scenario where the the GB only sells 104 sets? I apologize if I'm being unclear.

[tsangan]

The pricing for the 9 key add on would be the same even if the base kit was a 104 keyset

[litster]

What Tsangan said in the last few pages makes total sense.

[balanar]

The pricing for the 9 key add on would be the same even if the base kit was a 104 keyset

What I meant was since prices are determined by quantities ordered, in a scenario where 87 keys & addons were sold separately, there would be a discrepancy in the number of orders for the addon since not everyone who gets the basic kit would get the addon. Hence, a lower quantity ordered for the addon = higher price for it.

Now in a scenario where everybody only has one option, the number of orders would be higher. Hence the prices would be lower in comparison. This scenario would be applicable only if the demand for the additional keys is high. Of course, limiting it to 1 type would just result in everybody buying it anyways since it'll only be a few bucks more. Basically my opinion has always been to have just one option whatever that may be.