GMK 'Miami Nights' + CMYKv2 + spacebars: In Limbo/Unfulfillment

[keshley]

From my understanding, all Ivan has to do is put it on his tax forms as income. If he claims it and pays taxes, he won't get in any trouble. He should claim his gb fees too, but that's up to him. From my understanding, if a drug dealer records his income on his tax form and pays taxes, the IRS couldn't care less. So going there won't really do anything. GMK pays taxes and individual GB leaders should as well on any income - besides that, GB's seem pretty legitimate (Source: my tax understanding and speculation).

If any of this were true, money laundry wouldn't be a crime.

But it is. Drug dealers filing taxes lol

Has to do with division of responsibilities. Money laundering is done so Law Enforcement can't track the money. A side benefit is the IRS can't track it for taxation either. In turn, the IRS isn't going to turn over documentation of income without a court order, so a drug dealer could, in theory, report all his income to the IRS and pay taxes on it, and be free of worry in regards to evasion of taxes, but would be pretty stupid to do since a court order for financial data is pretty easy for Law Enforcement to get.

Al Capone is probably the best example of this: he laundered all his money, so they couldn't charge him with serious crime, at least from a fraud/probation/whatever standpoint. So they charged him with evasion of taxes instead.

So, it's a catch-22, as long as you can prove it.

[demik]

God damn it why did I type laundry. LAUNDERING.

Anyway, thanks! I learned something new today.

[TBone]

God damn it why did I type laundry. LAUNDERING.

Anyway, thanks! I learned something new today.

Well if you do money laundry and don't file it on your taxes, that's a crime too!  )

[HannahPeach]

I'd rather not inform IRS ... if they start looking at GB's ...

exactly my thoughts, strange situation.

[Waateva]

I'd rather not inform IRS ... if they start looking at GB's ...

exactly my thoughts, strange situation.

Well, these things should be reported on people's tax returns anyways, at least if they live in the US.  Most likely there would be very little tax consequence unless the organizers are pocketing substantial amounts of profit because even if the amounts are large, these things should be close to being a wash or maybe or even a loss.  My guess is that no one except people with businesses ran online like Ctrl Alt, ZealPC, and others are reporting this income, which if not reported is considered tax fraud like just Ivan is committing if he doesn't claim the income, just on a much smaller scale.

[appleonama]

Pretty sure anyone without an LLC is not reporting taxes

[Waateva]

Pretty sure anyone without an LLC is not reporting taxes

An LLC is just a State entity that gives your personal assets protection though, there isn't necessarily a requirement to file just because you have an LLC.  For the IRS, they don't care if you are operating a business as Bob's Keyboard Sales or Bob's Keyboard Sales, LLC as they would be taxed exactly the same; as a sole proprietorship right on your own personal tax return.

[appleonama]

But if you are not declared as a business most commonly LLC you have no "obligation" to file taxes, there is no paper trail unless you give it up. It's the same as selling through PayPal as an individual. Do you report what you sell through PayPal? I mean you should be lets be real no one does.

[romevi]

But if you are not declared as a business most commonly LLC you have no "obligation" to file taxes, there is no paper trail unless you give it up. It's the same as selling through PayPal as an individual. Do you report what you sell through PayPal? I mean you should be lets be real no one does.

PayPal automatically reports any sales of over 200 transactions and $20k, regardless of what those payments received were. It's up to you how you categorize those payments on your return.

[Waateva]

But if you are not declared as a business most commonly LLC you have no "obligation" to file taxes, there is no paper trail unless you give it up. It's the same as selling through PayPal as an individual. Do you report what you sell through PayPal? I mean you should be lets be real no one does.

LLCs have no filing requirement either though unless you have an LLC that you also incorporate into something like an S-Corp or C-Corp.  Most people just create LLCs and then report that income on a Schedule C just like they would've reported it if they weren't an LLC, and people usually only do that when they get a 1099-Misc as that is then reported to the IRS.

For personal items, you are supposed to report the sale of those things but the IRS only really would care if you made money on it.  So take for instance your PayPal example; if I bought a keyboard for $150 and then sold it via PayPal for $120, the IRS doesn't care about it because its a loss on personal-use property and I cannot take a loss.  With the same example though, if I buy the keyboard for $150 and sell it for $200, technically I should be reporting that on my tax return but only as hobby income because I am not in the "business" of selling my personal items for profit.  That said, if I am perusing thrift stores for low price items to resell and make money, the IRS would say I have a profit incentive and would want that income reported as self-employment income.

[64rky]

God damn it why did I type laundry. LAUNDERING.

Anyway, thanks! I learned something new today.

Haha,  your avatar fits perfectly with this

[shay_shay]

I still have faith this is going to happen. And if it doesn't, there is nothing I can do about it. So let's all relax and enjoy the ride.

[LXXXIX]

[ShardZer0]

I still have faith this is going to happen. And if it doesn't, there is nothing I can do about it. So let's all relax and enjoy the ride.

All our money is gone and GMK hasn't been paid. What exactly are you expecting?

[GreyAmbience]

I still have faith this is going to happen. And if it doesn't, there is nothing I can do about it. So let's all relax and enjoy the ride.

All our money is gone and GMK hasn't been paid. What exactly are you expecting?

How much did you each invest?

[ShardZer0]

I still have faith this is going to happen. And if it doesn't, there is nothing I can do about it. So let's all relax and enjoy the ride.

All our money is gone and GMK hasn't been paid. What exactly are you expecting?

How much did you each invest?

I had 2 main sets, a CMYK, and spacebars, totalling $316.

[romevi]

I still have faith this is going to happen. And if it doesn't, there is nothing I can do about it. So let's all relax and enjoy the ride.

All our money is gone and GMK hasn't been paid. What exactly are you expecting?

How much did you each invest?

Just the space bars.

[unipsykal]

I still have faith this is going to happen. And if it doesn't, there is nothing I can do about it. So let's all relax and enjoy the ride.

All our money is gone and GMK hasn't been paid. What exactly are you expecting?

How much did you each invest?

I paid for 2 of each: 2 base sets, 2 CMYK, 2 of each spacebars
total $392

[Michael]

I also bought into this GB pretty big. Wanted to hopefully begin a system for GB's here that hopefully ensures nobody gets screwed over like this again, feel free to offer your input


https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=80764.0

[swimmingbird]

I called Paypal today about the issue at hand

They told me that they cannot do anything after 180 days but if enough people contact them they can begin a proper investigation and take action against the account holder

At this point I am advising everyone to contact Paypal and let them know what's up

[Limewirelord]

I called Paypal today about the issue at hand

They told me that they cannot do anything after 180 days but if enough people contact them they can begin a proper investigation and take action against the account holder

At this point I am advising everyone to contact Paypal and let them know what's up

Is there a way for us to submit all of our information at once?  It seems awfully unorganized and slow to have us call in one by one.

[swimmingbird]

I called Paypal today about the issue at hand

They told me that they cannot do anything after 180 days but if enough people contact them they can begin a proper investigation and take action against the account holder

At this point I am advising everyone to contact Paypal and let them know what's up

Is there a way for us to submit all of our information at once?  It seems awfully unorganized and slow to have us call in one by one.

Unfortunately they need to have the email's coming from the same addresses used for the paypal transactions

[digi]

I also bought into this GB pretty big. Wanted to hopefully begin a system for GB's here that hopefully ensures nobody gets screwed over like this again, feel free to offer your input


https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=80764.0

NOW it makes sense!!

[swimmingbird]

I've sent an update email to everyone who has reached me on the gmail address

If you don't get it for some reason the gist of it is reach out to paypal as soon as possible and file a claim with them

Even though it is outside of the 180 day dispute period if enough people come forward they can investigate Ivan and take action against him

[GreyAmbience]

I still have faith this is going to happen. And if it doesn't, there is nothing I can do about it. So let's all relax and enjoy the ride.

All our money is gone and GMK hasn't been paid. What exactly are you expecting?

How much did you each invest?

I paid for 2 of each: 2 base sets, 2 CMYK, 2 of each spacebars
total $392

  oh ****, I'm sorry to hear that.

[Elrick]

Even though it is outside of the 180 day dispute period if enough people come forward they can investigate Ivan and take action against him

It's 100% true, PAYPAL can not do anything legally outside the 180 time limit.  Hence why would they because it means money out of their own pockets pursuing this deadbeat which will fail in every court within the US of A, so whatever you were told doesn't hold any truth here when it comes to going after him.

Just chalk it down as a typical Geekhack Fraudster that got away with it and move on.  Remember there is no safe person here on Geekhack to trust, when it comes to money especially how much this parasite had raked in for himself and disappeared, never to be heard of again.

I know some naive people think they will get their money back or worse, that they will even see their GMK key-caps but that will only happen, when you smoke some dope in a dark room.  Time to wake up from your ignorance and see the keyboard world for what it really is, one rip off after another, until you decide to stop and concentrate on more important things in life.

[Willyc277]

Even though it is outside of the 180 day dispute period if enough people come forward they can investigate Ivan and take action against him

It's 100% true, PAYPAL can not do anything legally outside the 180 time limit.  Hence why would they because it means money out of their own pockets pursuing this deadbeat which will fail in every court within the US of A, so whatever you were told doesn't hold any truth here when it comes to going after him.

Just chalk it down as a typical Geekhack Fraudster that got away with it and move on.  Remember there is no safe person here on Geekhack to trust, when it comes to money especially how much this parasite had raked in for himself and disappeared, never to be heard of again.

I know some naive people think they will get their money back or worse, that they will even see their GMK key-caps but that will only happen, when you smoke some dope in a dark room.  Time to wake up from your ignorance and see the keyboard world for what it really is, one rip off after another, until you decide to stop and concentrate on more important things in life.

Damn dude get your finger off the trigger.

Never thought I'd say this, but I think I miss the old Elrick.

[taylordcraig]

I'm in debt thousands of dollars due to circumstances beyond my control in real life. Would you fools really be understanding if I stole your money? There is no excuse.

[ideus]

Even though it is outside of the 180 day dispute period if enough people come forward they can investigate Ivan and take action against him

It's 100% true, PAYPAL can not do anything legally outside the 180 time limit.  Hence why would they because it means money out of their own pockets pursuing this deadbeat which will fail in every court within the US of A, so whatever you were told doesn't hold any truth here when it comes to going after him.

Just chalk it down as a typical Geekhack Fraudster that got away with it and move on.  Remember there is no safe person here on Geekhack to trust, when it comes to money especially how much this parasite had raked in for himself and disappeared, never to be heard of again.

I know some naive people think they will get their money back or worse, that they will even see their GMK key-caps but that will only happen, when you smoke some dope in a dark room.  Time to wake up from your ignorance and see the keyboard world for what it really is, one rip off after another, until you decide to stop and concentrate on more important things in life.

As bad as it sounds, is just the naked truth.

[romevi]

Even though it is outside of the 180 day dispute period if enough people come forward they can investigate Ivan and take action against him

It's 100% true, PAYPAL can not do anything legally outside the 180 time limit.  Hence why would they because it means money out of their own pockets pursuing this deadbeat which will fail in every court within the US of A, so whatever you were told doesn't hold any truth here when it comes to going after him.

Just chalk it down as a typical Geekhack Fraudster that got away with it and move on.  Remember there is no safe person here on Geekhack to trust, when it comes to money especially how much this parasite had raked in for himself and disappeared, never to be heard of again.

I know some naive people think they will get their money back or worse, that they will even see their GMK key-caps but that will only happen, when you smoke some dope in a dark room.  Time to wake up from your ignorance and see the keyboard world for what it really is, one rip off after another, until you decide to stop and concentrate on more important things in life.

As bad as it sounds, is just the naked truth.

I've kissed my money goodbye the day I joined the GB, keycaps or no. I'm now being more cautious with future buys.

[ideus]

Even though it is outside of the 180 day dispute period if enough people come forward they can investigate Ivan and take action against him

It's 100% true, PAYPAL can not do anything legally outside the 180 time limit.  Hence why would they because it means money out of their own pockets pursuing this deadbeat which will fail in every court within the US of A, so whatever you were told doesn't hold any truth here when it comes to going after him.

Just chalk it down as a typical Geekhack Fraudster that got away with it and move on.  Remember there is no safe person here on Geekhack to trust, when it comes to money especially how much this parasite had raked in for himself and disappeared, never to be heard of again.

I know some naive people think they will get their money back or worse, that they will even see their GMK key-caps but that will only happen, when you smoke some dope in a dark room.  Time to wake up from your ignorance and see the keyboard world for what it really is, one rip off after another, until you decide to stop and concentrate on more important things in life.

As bad as it sounds, is just the naked truth.

I've kissed my money goodbye the day I joined the GB, keycaps or no. I'm now being more cautious with future buys.

Right! If we do not learn the lesson; then, the money was totally wasted; but, in the other hand, if trusted people like Ivan did this scam, we should take preventive measures on time, as claiming the money back when it was still possible.

[Waateva]

Even though it is outside of the 180 day dispute period if enough people come forward they can investigate Ivan and take action against him

It's 100% true, PAYPAL can not do anything legally outside the 180 time limit.  Hence why would they because it means money out of their own pockets pursuing this deadbeat which will fail in every court within the US of A, so whatever you were told doesn't hold any truth here when it comes to going after him.

Just chalk it down as a typical Geekhack Fraudster that got away with it and move on.  Remember there is no safe person here on Geekhack to trust, when it comes to money especially how much this parasite had raked in for himself and disappeared, never to be heard of again.

I know some naive people think they will get their money back or worse, that they will even see their GMK key-caps but that will only happen, when you smoke some dope in a dark room.  Time to wake up from your ignorance and see the keyboard world for what it really is, one rip off after another, until you decide to stop and concentrate on more important things in life.

As bad as it sounds, is just the naked truth.

I've kissed my money goodbye the day I joined the GB, keycaps or no. I'm now being more cautious with future buys.

Right! If we do not learn the lesson; then, the money was totally wasted; but, in the other hand, if trusted people like Ivan did this scam, we should take preventive measures on time, as claiming the money back when it was still possible.

People tried to but were ridiculed to no end if I remember correctly.

[Wannabe]

Even though it is outside of the 180 day dispute period if enough people come forward they can investigate Ivan and take action against him

It's 100% true, PAYPAL can not do anything legally outside the 180 time limit.  Hence why would they because it means money out of their own pockets pursuing this deadbeat which will fail in every court within the US of A, so whatever you were told doesn't hold any truth here when it comes to going after him.

Just chalk it down as a typical Geekhack Fraudster that got away with it and move on.  Remember there is no safe person here on Geekhack to trust, when it comes to money especially how much this parasite had raked in for himself and disappeared, never to be heard of again.

I know some naive people think they will get their money back or worse, that they will even see their GMK key-caps but that will only happen, when you smoke some dope in a dark room.  Time to wake up from your ignorance and see the keyboard world for what it really is, one rip off after another, until you decide to stop and concentrate on more important things in life.

As bad as it sounds, is just the naked truth.

I've kissed my money goodbye the day I joined the GB, keycaps or no. I'm now being more cautious with future buys.

Right! If we do not learn the lesson; then, the money was totally wasted; but, in the other hand, if trusted people like Ivan did this scam, we should take preventive measures on time, as claiming the money back when it was still possible.

People tried to but were ridiculed to no end if I remember correctly.

Ivan begged people to stop issuing Paypal disputes back when the window was still open. I'm not in this GB, but I am a participant in his RedScarf GB and I didn't issue a Paypal dispute back when I still could because of this exact message.

Sorry I have not been around for awhile.

I just would like to let you know things are still in the works. Please be patient. Sometimes things can take longer than what was initially expected.

If you can PLEASE stop initiating paypal disputes I would really appreciate it. I simply don't have the money to be refunding everyone as it is tied up in product.
If you have an urgent inquiry, please simply send an email. Starting paypal disputes to send a question is not helpful.
THANKS.

[ideus]

Even though it is outside of the 180 day dispute period if enough people come forward they can investigate Ivan and take action against him

It's 100% true, PAYPAL can not do anything legally outside the 180 time limit.  Hence why would they because it means money out of their own pockets pursuing this deadbeat which will fail in every court within the US of A, so whatever you were told doesn't hold any truth here when it comes to going after him.

Just chalk it down as a typical Geekhack Fraudster that got away with it and move on.  Remember there is no safe person here on Geekhack to trust, when it comes to money especially how much this parasite had raked in for himself and disappeared, never to be heard of again.

I know some naive people think they will get their money back or worse, that they will even see their GMK key-caps but that will only happen, when you smoke some dope in a dark room.  Time to wake up from your ignorance and see the keyboard world for what it really is, one rip off after another, until you decide to stop and concentrate on more important things in life.

As bad as it sounds, is just the naked truth.

I've kissed my money goodbye the day I joined the GB, keycaps or no. I'm now being more cautious with future buys.

Right! If we do not learn the lesson; then, the money was totally wasted; but, in the other hand, if trusted people like Ivan did this scam, we should take preventive measures on time, as claiming the money back when it was still possible.

People tried to but were ridiculed to no end if I remember correctly.

Ivan begged people to stop issuing Paypal disputes back when the window was still open. I'm not in this GB, but I am a participant in his RedScarf GB and I didn't issue a Paypal dispute back when I still could because of this exact message.

Sorry I have not been around for awhile.

I just would like to let you know things are still in the works. Please be patient. Sometimes things can take longer than what was initially expected.

If you can PLEASE stop initiating paypal disputes I would really appreciate it. I simply don't have the money to be refunding everyone as it is tied up in product.
If you have an urgent inquiry, please simply send an email. Starting paypal disputes to send a question is not helpful.
THANKS.

Exactly, a pledge email plus a good standing and a great past GB leading record made the magic of stopping the tents of now defrauded people to stop in their heels to open disputes, that by then were more than justified.

[FranksNewLiver]

I've sent an update email to everyone who has reached me on the gmail address

If you don't get it for some reason the gist of it is reach out to paypal as soon as possible and file a claim with them

Even though it is outside of the 180 day dispute period if enough people come forward they can investigate Ivan and take action against him

Can you ask them for some kind of identifier we can all attach to allow them easily group is together?

[taylordcraig]

I've sent an update email to everyone who has reached me on the gmail address

If you don't get it for some reason the gist of it is reach out to paypal as soon as possible and file a claim with them

Even though it is outside of the 180 day dispute period if enough people come forward they can investigate Ivan and take action against him

Can you ask them for some kind of identifier we can all attach to allow them easily group is together?

Probably a little late, a week after the fact.

edit: just smoked some dope in a dark room, no caps, sorry.

[swimmingbird]

I've sent an update email to everyone who has reached me on the gmail address

If you don't get it for some reason the gist of it is reach out to paypal as soon as possible and file a claim with them

Even though it is outside of the 180 day dispute period if enough people come forward they can investigate Ivan and take action against him

Can you ask them for some kind of identifier we can all attach to allow them easily group is together?

I asked if there was anything that they could provide in that regard they said just email and with enough "flags" on his account the investigation would automatically start

[Elrick]

I asked if there was anything that they could provide in that regard they said just email and with enough "flags" on his account the investigation would automatically start

Just explain to a VERY simple person here regarding the Hunt For Ivan here on GH Central, via Paypal.

So if enough newbs (me included here) complain then Paypal MIGHT launch some kind of "investigation" which will lead to what exactly?

Currently Paypal don't have the authority to demand any of the money back for the suckers who paid him in the first place, so why do you think this will change under a possible "Paypal Investigation" well past the 180 day limit.

Simple fact we all want to know here, will we EVER GET OUR MONEY BACK from this Rip-Off Merchant, under any possible 'future' paypal investigation?

[filphil]

You won't know. Just like you wouldn't know if you'll really get your product from any gb here on geekhack.

[Elrick]

You won't know. Just like you wouldn't know if you'll really get your product from any gb here on geekhack.

I'm not against what swimmingbird wants to do here, he would like to make sure this scumbag doesn't walk away from here unscathed at all.  If Paypal can do anything, it's to ONLY suspend this scam-merchant's account with them and that is about all they will ever do.

In the end it's us dumb-arse suckers who believed in him that had our wallets raped by him and all we could now do is chalk it down to a bad experience.  My ONLY advice to everyone here on Geekhack, don't TRUST anyone when it comes to your money and don't fear in launching any possible claims against any scumbag merchant, that looks like stealing your money away.

The 180 day time limit is the final deadline in ever seeing your money hence do all that's necessary to determine whether the guy you're handing over your money too is indeed trustworthy, which is now even more difficult to contemplate in 2016.

[demsix]

Transaction ID: xxxxxxx
Merchant: IvanIvanovich - sturzen.kultur@gmail.com

Hi, last year I joined a group buy* and this merchant took the funds but never delivered the product. There are several others who are a part of this group buy who have lost money because of this. You may begin to see other users flag this account because of this activity/fraud and you may want to investigate this to protect other users.

I understand there's a PayPal has a limit when funds can be returned, but at least you should be aware that this account has committed serious fraud by taking a large sum of money from users of the group buy.

Here is a thread of users of the group buy discussing this issue: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71507.1400

* A group buy is when a group of people get together to buy a product directly from a manufacturer that otherwise wouldn't be possible due manufacturers requiring a minimum order quota. The group buy owner (In this case, IvanIvanovich - sturzen.kultur@gmail.com) takes the funds from the group, places the order, receives the order, then ships out the parts to the group buy participants.

https://www.paypal.com/selfhelp/contact/email

If anyone wants to copy or has anything to add feel free.

[Limewirelord]

Sent in a Paypal ticket.

I don't see the point of being so pointlessly negative about everything.  If anything, Ivan gets in major trouble for everything and the rest of Geekhack is now more wary of events like these happening in the future.  Yeah, it sucks that most of the participants most likely won't be seeing their money back or any sort of product but **** happens.  This is why I was against the blind support of Ivan previously (lel Elrick flaming people trying to do chargebacks and other people who were remotely skeptical of Ivan) but now is the time to pull together and at least get Paypal to investigate what might have happened here.

@swimmingbird: Perhaps it'd be in the benefit of people who sent in invoice information to create a template for the Paypal claim process in order to make it easier for people to send in a ticket?  I know I was being super lazy about it until I saw that link and template where all I needed to do was shove in my transaction ID.  Ease of use makes people get off their ass.

[WinterIsle]

Transaction ID: xxxxxxx
Merchant: IvanIvanovich - sturzen.kultur@gmail.com

Hi, last year I joined a group buy* and this merchant took the funds but never delivered the product. There are several others who are a part of this group buy who have lost money because of this. You may begin to see other users flag this account because of this activity/fraud and you may want to investigate this to protect other users.

I understand there's a PayPal has a limit when funds can be returned, but at least you should be aware that this account has committed serious fraud by taking a large sum of money from users of the group buy.

Here is a thread of users of the group buy discussing this issue: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71507.1400

* A group buy is when a group of people get together to buy a product directly from a manufacturer that otherwise wouldn't be possible due manufacturers requiring a minimum order quota. The group buy owner (In this case, IvanIvanovich - sturzen.kultur@gmail.com) takes the funds from the group, places the order, receives the order, then ships out the parts to the group buy participants.

https://www.paypal.com/selfhelp/contact/email

If anyone wants to copy or has anything to add feel free.

Thanks for the template attached.
I have sent a fraud report to paypal with my transaction id numbers.

[asgeirtj]

I just noticed that on paypal.com it says that ivan's account is currently unavailable to receive money, looks like his account was maybe disabled.

[asgeirtj]

Btw, from paypal's site:

Although we cannot investigate a transaction after 180 days, you can open a buyer dispute. Your dispute will be noted on the seller's records. This may encourage your seller to communicate with you and try to reach a resolution in this matter. In some exceptional cases, we may be able to investigate the claim at a later time. This normally only occurs if we receive a large volume of complaints against the seller.

[ideus]

Btw, from paypal's site:

Although we cannot investigate a transaction after 180 days, you can open a buyer dispute. Your dispute will be noted on the seller's records. This may encourage your seller to communicate with you and try to reach a resolution in this matter. In some exceptional cases, we may be able to investigate the claim at a later time. This normally only occurs if we receive a large volume of complaints against the seller.

This looks promising.

[cozimkorean]

Btw, from paypal's site:

Although we cannot investigate a transaction after 180 days, you can open a buyer dispute. Your dispute will be noted on the seller's records. This may encourage your seller to communicate with you and try to reach a resolution in this matter. In some exceptional cases, we may be able to investigate the claim at a later time. This normally only occurs if we receive a large volume of complaints against the seller.

You guys will get your money back if you all work together properly  )

[demik]

Btw, from paypal's site:

Although we cannot investigate a transaction after 180 days, you can open a buyer dispute. Your dispute will be noted on the seller's records. This may encourage your seller to communicate with you and try to reach a resolution in this matter. In some exceptional cases, we may be able to investigate the claim at a later time. This normally only occurs if we receive a large volume of complaints against the seller.

You guys will get your money back if you all work together properly  )

Not unless that money has been taken out already

[Vittra]

Not necessarily - Paypal can put his balance into negative and go after him directly through legal means. It is, however, difficult to ascertain if this is the route they would take.

[Dreamre]

Transaction ID: xxxxxxx
Merchant: IvanIvanovich - sturzen.kultur@gmail.com

Hi, last year I joined a group buy* and this merchant took the funds but never delivered the product. There are several others who are a part of this group buy who have lost money because of this. You may begin to see other users flag this account because of this activity/fraud and you may want to investigate this to protect other users.

I understand there's a PayPal has a limit when funds can be returned, but at least you should be aware that this account has committed serious fraud by taking a large sum of money from users of the group buy.

Here is a thread of users of the group buy discussing this issue: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71507.1400

* A group buy is when a group of people get together to buy a product directly from a manufacturer that otherwise wouldn't be possible due manufacturers requiring a minimum order quota. The group buy owner (In this case, IvanIvanovich - sturzen.kultur@gmail.com) takes the funds from the group, places the order, receives the order, then ships out the parts to the group buy participants.

https://www.paypal.com/selfhelp/contact/email

If anyone wants to copy or has anything to add feel free.

Thanks for the template .