RIP images
https://clips.twitch.tv/KathishSuperPeafowlHumbleLife
I have a question but this man can't say it better.
unfortunately material pricing and shipping have skyrocketed due to covid therefore causing every step to be more than initially anticipated. I wish I wasn't forced to sell at the above pricing but I have no choice without scrapping the project entirely.nobody is forcing you to run this now though.
https://clips.twitch.tv/KathishSuperPeafowlHumbleLife
I have a question but this man can't say it better.
Did you really not see this response coming?: Nobody is forcing you to buy this right now though.unfortunately material pricing and shipping have skyrocketed due to covid therefore causing every step to be more than initially anticipated. I wish I wasn't forced to sell at the above pricing but I have no choice without scrapping the project entirely.nobody is forcing you to run this now though.
https://clips.twitch.tv/KathishSuperPeafowlHumbleLife
I have a question but this man can't say it better.
https://clips.twitch.tv/KathishSuperPeafowlHumbleLife
I have a question but this man can't say it better.
God damn, this kind of overreaction is exactly why I avoid twitch/youtube "streamers". His "toyota" argument is extremely flawed.
The keyboard is expensive. Too expensive for me, in fact, but that doesn't mean it's overpriced. It's unique, and I'm sure it's impossible to get this board made elsewhere to the same standard and at the same quantities for much less.
GLWGB. I'm sure people will change their minds once the board is delivered!
Did you really not see this response coming?: Nobody is forcing you to buy this right now though.unfortunately material pricing and shipping have skyrocketed due to covid therefore causing every step to be more than initially anticipated. I wish I wasn't forced to sell at the above pricing but I have no choice without scrapping the project entirely.nobody is forcing you to run this now though.
Just to be clear, I am not at all happy about the price either, and might end up not getting it becasue of it. But i have never understood people getting upset over the price of none necessities, when there isn't like a monopoly and are a large multitude of other options available, that are just as easy to get.
You make a good point.Did you really not see this response coming?: Nobody is forcing you to buy this right now though.unfortunately material pricing and shipping have skyrocketed due to covid therefore causing every step to be more than initially anticipated. I wish I wasn't forced to sell at the above pricing but I have no choice without scrapping the project entirely.nobody is forcing you to run this now though.
Just to be clear, I am not at all happy about the price either, and might end up not getting it becasue of it. But i have never understood people getting upset over the price of none necessities, when there isn't like a monopoly and are a large multitude of other options available, that are just as easy to get.
People get upset over pricing like this because there is an inordinate amount of cash grabbing happening in this hobby right now. The more unavailable high end boards are, the more people will sell similarly priced items, regardless of whether it is good quality or not. I understand the argument that you 'vote with your wallet' but that is done on an individual level. As a whole, everything in this hobby is becoming more expensive even though the quality is not necessarily keeping up. This increasing price to quality ratio is getting worse and worse every ic and this dynamic definitely hurts the hobby.
So if someone looks at this ic and can 'unjustify the price' I think that's totally fair game. People should be totally free to ***** and moan if they think its an unfair price and the gb runner has the same freedom to defend themselves.
I know the gb runner explained the pricing, but tbh I just don't buy it. This design doesn't seem particularly complex, it doesn't have a ton of premium materials and there are no new and/or novel features that the gb runner 'took a chance on'... so again, why is it so expensive? Has a typing test even been posted?
For those of you interested in this at this price level I'm genuinely curious why. Is it the design? Is it the reputation of the gb maker? What makes this particular keyboard worth over $700 to you?
https://clips.twitch.tv/KathishSuperPeafowlHumbleLife
I have a question but this man can't say it better.
God damn, this kind of overreaction is exactly why I avoid twitch/youtube "streamers". His "toyota" argument is extremely flawed.
The keyboard is expensive. Too expensive for me, in fact, but that doesn't mean it's overpriced. It's unique, and I'm sure it's impossible to get this board made elsewhere to the same standard and at the same quantities for much less.
GLWGB. I'm sure people will change their minds once the board is delivered!
https://clips.twitch.tv/KathishSuperPeafowlHumbleLife
I have a question but this man can't say it better.
God damn, this kind of overreaction is exactly why I avoid twitch/youtube "streamers". His "toyota" argument is extremely flawed.
The keyboard is expensive. Too expensive for me, in fact, but that doesn't mean it's overpriced. It's unique, and I'm sure it's impossible to get this board made elsewhere to the same standard and at the same quantities for much less.
GLWGB. I'm sure people will change their minds once the board is delivered!
Yup, prime example of a garbage streamer full with negativity.
Look, none of you actually have one of these, so none of you have seen more than a quick glimpse on a build stream of how this is designed and put together. First, I've worked with BA previously on multiple projects, and I can tell you, he's the last designer in this community to be over pricing things just to make a quick buck. I know how long he's been working on this board, I know how much time and effort he's put into it. Second, he's a mechanical engineer by trade, he's designed and made quite a few boards at this point, and made plenty of other things before that, pretty sure that if anyone does, he knows how to optimize a design for cnc.
Anyway, lets start with the cost of materials. Now, I haven't actually seen the quote BA got for this, but just going off of quotes I have gotten recently, and the fact that I own one of the prototypes, I'm going to make some educated guesses. Hopefully he doesn't get mad at me for breaking this down like this lol
because of the size (approx 5.25-5.5" width, 15" length, 1.75-2" thickness, and you need two of them), you're looking at $300-350 worth of aluminum. just the aluminum. that's cost. without any markups. that doesn't include machine time, that doesn't include ano, that doesn't include brass or stainless parts, that doesn't include plating.
So factor in machine time, which for this will be more than normal, because you're removing a large amount of material from both halves and have multiple setups for multiple pieces (the top needs 3 setups, the bottom needs 2, 2 for the weight, and 2 for the back accent), you're looking at about $200 for machine time for all the pieces. and don't forget, we haven't priced the material for the weight or the back accent yet...
So, lets get to those. the weight is about 4"x6"x1" and the back accent is about .4"x1.5"x15". I'm going to say the brass weight is probably about $60 and the brass back is probably about $80. and I'll guess the stainless is probably about $70 and $100, respectively, for those same parts.
So, for the brass versions lets say you're at about $300 for the aluminum, $130 in brass, and $200 in machine time and finishing. That's $630 to the front door. For the stainless version $680 to the front door.
Why "to the front door"? because we haven't even factored in cost of shipping yet. anyone here shipped 650 lbs of aluminum, brass, and stainless from China any time recently? yeah didn't think so. you're looking at probably about $3k. split that up across 80 units, and you're talking another $35-40 per board. so we'll go low on that one and say $35.
now you're at $665 and $715, respectively. and that hasn't even included the PCB or plate, or shipping to the customer.
So, not including the plate or PCB, he's making $50 on a blue and brass version, and $25 on a night sky and stainless version. Throw in the PCB and plate and he's barely making anything on these boards. yep. totally sounds like he's taking advantage and gouging people...
Got to $300-$350 for aluminum and laughed out loud. A 15" x 5.5" x 2" piece of bar stock 6061 aluminum is $55 on midwest steel supply. Not to mention i seriously doubt each half would have to start out anywhere near 2" thick. You need to source your misinformation.
Got to $300-$350 for aluminum and laughed out loud. A 15" x 5.5" x 2" piece of bar stock 6061 aluminum is $55 on midwest steel supply. Not to mention i seriously doubt each half would have to start out anywhere near 2" thick. You need to source your misinformation.
source my misinformation, lol. you can doubt the size needed all you want, I have the board sitting right in front of me to take measurements from, or did you miss that part?
Here's the thing, you have to use a larger size stock than the thing you're machining from it. those dimensions I listed were for the board itself with a little overage just so that I could get a rough estimate (more accurately the board is 5.2x14.35x1.6) so to be safe, add .25" per side (0.5" total) to get the stock size you're machining from; and since you're using stock sizes, you may have to go a bit larger than that. that puts you at 5.5x15.5x2.1. so, yes, the size is accurate (and really damn close considering originally I mostly eyeballed it with a ruler rather than break out the calipers like I did for the more accurate measurements).
So sure, lets assume my price for the aluminum is wrong (which it very well could be, but I based it off of recent quotes I've seen and received). Anyway, using the site that you used, plate before shipping would be $116 for both halves (actual plate alu, not extruded bar stock, which needs to be machined to be useable), before shipping from the supplier to the manu. Both halves of a single case weigh 33.9lbs, shipping right now is expensive so at say $5/kg that is $76.85 bringing the total to $193 (rounded up the 15 cents) for just the top and bottom halve stock (according to the specific supplier you googled).
But if you had finished reading you would notice that the pricing estimates didn't even include plate, pcb, daughterboard, bumpons, screws and packaging so even with that change, it gets eaten up again with the other missing things.
So, now that we found another $100, lets go back to those other things...
The plate is going to be about another $30-35 per unit total. The PCB is going to be another $25-30 per unit, assembled and shipped. probably about $8 for the daughterboard and jst cable, $5-7 in screws (depending on the quality, since the screws manus use are usually trash), we'll eat the cost of bumpons, and maybe $15 for packaging. So that's another $88. wow, hey, would you look at that, that's almost that $100 we just found.
So congrats all you helped prove was that my initial estimate for the aluminum was off but that my overall estimate for the cost of the board was pretty damn close to correct, and you still showed that it's not overpriced because he's throwing a huge margin on top of cost, and that he still isn't making much per unit.
good job, now sit back down.
Glad you have actual numbers and quotes to back up the price estimate. Given the gb runners experience and reputation, its highly likely he's not "out to scam everyone" and I think this keyboard is probably priced appropriately to quoted costs.
What I don't understand is why similarly designed keyboards cost so much less. For example the Zenith (comparable in size and weight) went for $450 (alu plate) which is considerably less. The question is why? Is the engraving in the weight that much more? The Viktus IS bigger... is it the cost of the original alu block? Is it quantity of units produced/sold? Is shipping and production during current covid conditions worse (more expensive) that prior covid conditions? Is it a combination of all of these things?
Look, I'm simply a consumer and I clearly don't know the ins and outs of keyboard making. I'm not here to crap on anyone's passions. But playing devils advocate for a spiraling-out-of-control hobby isn't a bad thing IMO. At the current GB price, this keyboard is clearly one of the most expensive out there which means it should be the best... best looking, sounding, and feeling and it should be made with a large quantity of premium materials. It should be almost flawless (with wiggle room for subjectivity of course).
https://clips.twitch.tv/KathishSuperPeafowlHumbleLife
I have a question but this man can't say it better.
GB starts tomorrow in ~16 hours. Hope to see y'alls support to make this project a reality!
I even debated about showing quotes but that wouldn't change anyone's mind, I would be told I edited it or created it just to lie.
I even debated about showing quotes but that wouldn't change anyone's mind, I would be told I edited it or created it just to lie.
Yeah... I don't know about this one. It'd work for me, and many others I'm sure, to see a breakdown of the costs. Just cause one or two people would cry conspiracy doesn't mean everyone would. Seems like a weak reason not to show them if people doubt pricing, but shrug.
I know that rising prices in materials, manufacturing, and shipping are being mentioned, but to throw it out there, I just finished production on a GB that started during COVID and ended during COVID that was unaffected by high aluminum prices, high manufacturing costs, and high shipping. Freight shipping from China to the US for my GB is about $8 per keyboard (in bulk). My board had 5 pieces (although 2 were fairly small) and I was able to get it manufactured quickly and at a reasonable cost to me and the GB participants.
Is it possible that on the boards that were made by BA earlier were cheaper because a vendor handled it? Now that BA is handling the production and fulfillment alone I think it's possible that the manus and suppliers that are planned to be used are overcharging and that a more proper manu can be found.
I reached out to some of my contacts/friends and no one is citing any manus being backlogged by the Chinese government enlisting them to make medical equipment, possibly it's just a select few manus that includes the one used for the Viktus Stryka.
I don't think costs/numbers need to be shown though, I just feel from my experience with fully handling my own GB that somewhere along the path from supplier -> manufacturer -> fulfillment someone is taking a larger cut than normal.
I know people keep saying that he should just show the quote or whatever. But I don't remember seeing yall ask for quotes when the No.1 jumped $100-150 in price from Rev1 to Rev2, or when Kepler dropped at $850 or the FC65 at $800, or the No.2/65 at $800, or the Andromeda at $750. Where were you guys then? Why now and not then?
I mean to be fair, he brought it up. It would silence a lot of the complaints, if it's justified. Def not something that has to be done, but going "yeah I could show you, but you'd never believe me, so I'm not showing you" seems even worse.I even debated about showing quotes but that wouldn't change anyone's mind, I would be told I edited it or created it just to lie.
Yeah... I don't know about this one. It'd work for me, and many others I'm sure, to see a breakdown of the costs. Just cause one or two people would cry conspiracy doesn't mean everyone would. Seems like a weak reason not to show them if people doubt pricing, but shrug.
I thought the argument before was "lol just don't be poor / if you don't like the price don't buy it" now there's a demand to have runners show cost and numbers?
Beautiful board. OP designed and sourced, then managed production, packaging and fulfillment. Discretionary item, so buyers can decide whether or not to buy. Or to run their own GB. Lots of options, no need to complain. Besides, would you buy it at $600? How about $500?
Is the issue pricing or your ability to swing it? Personally I think the board totally rocks and I wish I had the funds to get one. But no way is OP to blame for my situation. And no way I would snipe at anyone buying this.
tl/dr: h8rs gonna h8. GLWGB!!!
I've already made a quadrouple take on this board, I think it looks great and Mechs on Deck showed that this is a hefty boi. I keep mulling it over but used a lot of funds on stocks in the past couple of weeks. Still will continue to recheck the thread, pics, and videos until I make a decision later this month.
Great Aesthetic BlindAssassin :thumb:
I do not know much about pricing since I have never made a board, but I do love the look. :cool:
Did you really not see this response coming?: Nobody is forcing you to buy this right now though.unfortunately material pricing and shipping have skyrocketed due to covid therefore causing every step to be more than initially anticipated. I wish I wasn't forced to sell at the above pricing but I have no choice without scrapping the project entirely.nobody is forcing you to run this now though.
Just to be clear, I am not at all happy about the price either, and might end up not getting it becasue of it. But i have never understood people getting upset over the price of none necessities, when there isn't like a monopoly and are a large multitude of other options available, that are just as easy to get.
(http://*"The guy you replied to didn't imply anything at all about wanting to buy nor upset about it.) I am well aware of that. The point is: While Blind Assassin is certainly not being forced to make this board at a time when the prices for goods are high, SIMILARLY- No one is forcing ANYONE (that's what i meant by "you") to buy this board right now.Did you really not see this response coming?: Nobody is forcing you to buy this right now though.unfortunately material pricing and shipping have skyrocketed due to covid therefore causing every step to be more than initially anticipated. I wish I wasn't forced to sell at the above pricing but I have no choice without scrapping the project entirely.nobody is forcing you to run this now though.
Just to be clear, I am not at all happy about the price either, and might end up not getting it becasue of it. But i have never understood people getting upset over the price of none necessities, when there isn't like a monopoly and are a large multitude of other options available, that are just as easy to get.
The guy you replied to didn't imply anything at all about wanting to buy nor upset about it. He was just pointing out the absurdity of OP's sentence like he was held at gunpoint and was ordered to sell it now or die. Not everything has to do with desperately wanting to buy the board, just want to point out the stupid statement "forced to sell now or never".
Did you really not see this response coming?: Nobody is forcing you to buy this right now though.unfortunately material pricing and shipping have skyrocketed due to covid therefore causing every step to be more than initially anticipated. I wish I wasn't forced to sell at the above pricing but I have no choice without scrapping the project entirely.nobody is forcing you to run this now though.
Just to be clear, I am not at all happy about the price either, and might end up not getting it becasue of it. But i have never understood people getting upset over the price of none necessities, when there isn't like a monopoly and are a large multitude of other options available, that are just as easy to get.
The guy you replied to didn't imply anything at all about wanting to buy nor upset about it. He was just pointing out the absurdity of OP's sentence like he was held at gunpoint and was ordered to sell it now or die. Not everything has to do with desperately wanting to buy the board, just want to point out the stupid statement "forced to sell now or never".Show Image(http://*"The guy you replied to didn't imply anything at all about wanting to buy nor upset about it.)I am well aware of that. The point is: While Blind Assassin is certainly not being forced to make this board at a time when the prices for goods are high, SIMILARLY- No one is forcing ANYONE (that's what i meant by "you") to buy this board right now.
The "you" i mention was the "universal you". (I don't think that's the correct term for what I'm thinking of, but I'm blanking on it...)
He was just pointing out the absurdity of OP's sentence like he was held at gunpoint and was ordered to sell it now or die. Yeah, I am very aware of that... it was my entire point... i was pointing how absurd bringing that up is. No one put a gun to Blind Assassin's head and made him sell this right now, and no one is putting a gun to that guy's head, your head, or anyone else's head, and making them buy it right now.
Anywho, I'll be placing my order in a few days. I can not wait to get my hands on this monolith. I absolutely love it.
his statement is still ridiculously nonsensical.
I think if this board initially had a justifiable price you wouldn't feel the need to elaborate on it being a reasonable price five different times.LOL. What. Whether the price is "justifiable" or not this is an absurd comment.
I think if this board initially had a justifiable price you wouldn't feel the need to elaborate on it being a reasonable price five different times.LOL. What. Whether the price is "justifiable" or not this is an absurd comment.
He was asked 5 different time (more actually) so he respond 5 different times.
Gb runner doesn't reply= he's lazy, shady, and incompetent.
Gb runner replies= Dishonest.
How dare he try and respond to people! HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH!
Damned if ya do, Damned if ya don't.
C'mon a now homies.
I think if this board initially had a justifiable price you wouldn't feel the need to elaborate on it being a reasonable price five different times.LOL. What. Whether the price is "justifiable" or not this is an absurd comment.
He was asked 5 different time (more actually) so he respond 5 different times.
Gb runner doesn't reply= he's lazy, shady, and incompetent.
Gb runner replies= Dishonest.
How dare he try and respond to people! HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH!
Damned if ya do, Damned if ya don't.
C'mon a now homies.
I don't think it's absurd at all; if you have to come to defend and elaborate on the pricing of your board MULTIPLE times there must be something fundamentally wrong with it.
I feel I have been around long enough to understand that keyboards can be expensive, there's a lot of cost going into every step of the process, but when you're selling something like this to the masses there needs to be some level of understanding to what people are getting from this price. With this board it is very clear they aren't seeing what makes this board a justifiable purchase at a glance.
I don't think it's absurd at all; if you have to come to defend and elaborate on the pricing of your board MULTIPLE times there must be something fundamentally wrong with it.
just gonna leave this here...Guess we'll have to fall back on wood, FR4, 3D printing or injection molding :p
(Attachment Link)
That said this board is also a complex little bugger, so machine time will be pretty high as well.
which is why it had to be extended to hit MOQ (which was only 80 units).