Feelios 65g vs 67g?

[OnTheBrink]

So I am at the final stage of picking the parts for the Sentraq build a wonderful member of this community agreed to build for me.

I have decided to go with Feelios as everywhere I searched "less sluggish Topre like Cherry MX switch for gaming" led me right to Zealios switches. However, I cannot decide between 65g and 67g.

For those with more experience than I -- which feels more like Topre? My board of choice is definitely my HHKB Type S and I love tactile feedback.

I know there is a description of each weight on ZealPC but it's not as descriptive as community feedback.

Thoughts?

[SpAmRaY]

What the heck is a feelio?

[OnTheBrink]

What the heck is a feelio?

https://zealpc.net/products/zealio

[SpAmRaY]

I know what zealios are I thought maybe feelios was some other amalgamation of combined parts.

[OnTheBrink]

I know what zealios are I thought maybe feelios was some other amalgamation of combined parts.

Oh, nah, it's just a nickname for them.

[Robotical]

I know what zealios are I thought maybe feelios was some other amalgamation of combined parts.

Combine a Fosen and a Zealios switch. Presto chango, the true feelios.

[kmba]

67g. I prefer the slightly heavier weight.

[OnTheBrink]

67g. I prefer the slightly heavier weight.

Is there any change in the tactile feedback?

[eksuen]

The 67g is noticeably more tactile (more pronounced bump) despite having the same stem. 65g Zealios are probably the most popular, but I think 67g feels better.

[switchnollie]

I agree with 67g feeling more tactile

[kmba]

I think 65g is the most popular because that's what gets sold through MD, etc.  Zeal has stated among the more hardcore enthusiast community, 67 and 78g are more popular.  They're definitely better (I enjoy both). 

[OnTheBrink]

I think 65g is the most popular because that's what gets sold through MD, etc.  Zeal has stated among the more hardcore enthusiast community, 67 and 78g are more popular.  They're definitely better (I enjoy both).

Perfect, this is why I am always glad I ask before purchasing. Going 67g


Off-topic: I was thinking about building this myself instead of sending it out. How hard as a first time builder would it be to put together the board kit with LEDs?

[ceflame]

Listening to the preferences of other individuals and making that your deciding factor is fine, but just remember that feels are always subjective

[Tom_Kazansky]

I have Zealio 67g too, awaiting for PCB 

Off-topic: I was thinking about building this myself instead of sending it out. How hard as a first time builder would it be to put together the board kit with LEDs?

- if you plan to build only 1 board: you should find soldering service in your area, it's safer.

- if you plan to build more than 1 board:
soldering is not that hard but you should find an old, unused pcb to practice. (alternatively, I think there is "Solder Practice Board")

without proper practice, you could potentially damage the switches or, even worse, the circuit trace.
damaged switches: just replace them (yep, easy)
damaged circuit trace: without proper tools, I think you can't debug/fix this.

I'm speaking from experience here.

[OnTheBrink]

Listening to the preferences of other individuals and making that your deciding factor is fine, but just remember that feels are always subjective

lol that's so cute. You think I'm not going to base my original purchase off of feedback then be irked by the fact I didn't try every other combination until I spend all my money due to an addiction only an internet community of people I never met can actually understand. Awwww

I have Zealio 67g too, awaiting for PCB 

Off-topic: I was thinking about building this myself instead of sending it out. How hard as a first time builder would it be to put together the board kit with LEDs?

- if you plan to build only 1 board: you should find soldering service in your area, it's safer.

- if you plan to build more than 1 board:
soldering is not that hard but you should find an old, unused pcb to practice. (alternatively, I think there is "Solder Practice Board")

without proper practice, you could potentially damage the switches or, even worse, the circuit trace.
damaged switches: just replace them (yep, easy)
damaged circuit trace: without proper tools, I think you can't debug/fix this.

I'm speaking from experience here.

Noted. Practice board it is. I'd rather get the learning down pat because I know the future will definitely have me wanting another kit.

Any solder you can recommend I grab off Amazon?

[eksuen]

60/40 if you want leaded solder.

https://smile.amazon.com/KESTER-SOLDER-24-6040-0027-Stand-Diameter/dp/B01MSWYSUU/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1494566689&sr=1-1&keywords=kester+tin+lead+solder

SAC305 if you want lead-free.

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00DED6ML6/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1QFVQCVPU20NS&coliid=ICKSTKKZRB0QF

I've been using SAC305 for all my builds.

[klennkellon]

Easy way to get a Zealios board is to buy either the Glorious Modular keyboard or the Team Wolf Zhuque and plop the switches in. No soldering or special tools just plop em' in and they work. That's what I did for my Ergo-Clear board after murdering a Quickfire Rapids PCB.

[nya]

I'd pick the 67g. They're both pretty nice though!

[ceflame]

Listening to the preferences of other individuals and making that your deciding factor is fine, but just remember that feels are always subjective

lol that's so cute. You think I'm not going to base my original purchase off of feedback then be irked by the fact I didn't try every other combination until I spend all my money due to an addiction only an internet community of people I never met can actually understand. Awwww

   You're a cutie yourself

[OnTheBrink]

I'd pick the 67g if you're like 55g topres. They're both pretty nice though!

Yeah, I went with the 67g. I like my HHKB Type-S and think it's perfect in terms of actuation force (even though it feels lighter than my FC660C that's supposedly the same weight). I also love the slightly shorter stroke over the Leopold as well. Way less fatigue. However, I must say for gaming it's a bit cumbersome. I find myself accidentally using abilities or find it's not as "light" (only way I can explain it as even though I'm not talking about actuation force but the tactile feedback) as I would like. If the 67g is similar to the typing experience I get from my topre but has smoother/lighter feel during gaming (as I've been reading), I think it might end up being my perfect keyboard/switch. Then again, I say that to justify every keyboard I purchase.

60/40 if you want leaded solder.

https://smile.amazon.com/KESTER-SOLDER-24-6040-0027-Stand-Diameter/dp/B01MSWYSUU/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1494566689&sr=1-1&keywords=kester+tin+lead+solder

SAC305 if you want lead-free.

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00DED6ML6/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1QFVQCVPU20NS&coliid=ICKSTKKZRB0QF

I've been using SAC305 for all my builds.

What iron would you recommend? Thanks, btw.

Listening to the preferences of other individuals and making that your deciding factor is fine, but just remember that feels are always subjective

lol that's so cute. You think I'm not going to base my original purchase off of feedback then be irked by the fact I didn't try every other combination until I spend all my money due to an addiction only an internet community of people I never met can actually understand. Awwww

   You're a cutie yourself

So that's that. I got the kit and ordered the Zealious switches. I am going to scrap one of my broken boards and practice soldering on it to get a feel. If I find I am too sloppy, I might just run over to a place that solders in my area for some help.

I'm pretty excited. I was hoping to get RGB LEDs from my scrapped Pok3r but it seems the firmware doesn't allow for top RGB LEDs. Just the PCB LEDs that are RGB. I think that's fine though. RGB on top would likely look too bling but the subtle RGB elements shining through the acrylic part of the case will leave for a beautiful touch.

[eksuen]

I'd pick the 67g if you're like 55g topres. They're both pretty nice though!

Yeah, I went with the 67g. I like my HHKB Type-S and think it's perfect in terms of actuation force (even though it feels lighter than my FC660C that's supposedly the same weight). I also love the slightly shorter stroke over the Leopold as well. Way less fatigue. However, I must say for gaming it's a bit cumbersome. I find myself accidentally using abilities or find it's not as "light" (only way I can explain it as even though I'm not talking about actuation force but the tactile feedback) as I would like. If the 67g is similar to the typing experience I get from my topre but has smoother/lighter feel during gaming (as I've been reading), I think it might end up being my perfect keyboard/switch. Then again, I say that to justify every keyboard I purchase.

60/40 if you want leaded solder.

https://smile.amazon.com/KESTER-SOLDER-24-6040-0027-Stand-Diameter/dp/B01MSWYSUU/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1494566689&sr=1-1&keywords=kester+tin+lead+solder

SAC305 if you want lead-free.

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00DED6ML6/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1QFVQCVPU20NS&coliid=ICKSTKKZRB0QF

I've been using SAC305 for all my builds.

What iron would you recommend? Thanks, btw.

I use a cheap one like this and it works for me.
https://www.amazon.com/Stahl-Tools-SSVT-Temperature-Soldering/dp/B0029N70WM

You may want to invest in a higher quality one if you foresee yourself doing many builds.

[fatpolomanjr]

Whatever feelios are, I can vouch that zealios are the way to get to them.

[ShishKabobJerry]

Kinda want to ask the same question, but this time it's about 78g. I kinda want a heavier switch, but tactile at the same time. I heard 78g has a less profound tactile bump cause it's heavier. Is that true?

[SBJ]

Kinda want to ask the same question, but this time it's about 78g. I kinda want a heavier switch, but tactile at the same time. I heard 78g has a less profound tactile bump cause it's heavier. Is that true?

I'd be interested in knowing this as well as those are the ones I'm planning on getting, but not if they're less tactile.

[Rob27shred]

Kinda want to ask the same question, but this time it's about 78g. I kinda want a heavier switch, but tactile at the same time. I heard 78g has a less profound tactile bump cause it's heavier. Is that true?

I'd be interested in knowing this as well as those are the ones I'm planning on getting, but not if they're less tactile.

Kinda want to ask the same question, but this time it's about 78g. I kinda want a heavier switch, but tactile at the same time. I heard 78g has a less profound tactile bump cause it's heavier. Is that true?

IME, yes it is true. The heavier the spring, the more long & drawn out the tactile bump becomes, causing it to lose it's feel if that makes sense. I've done some testing with Zealios & heavy springs looking for a combination I would like. The tactile bump get less & less noticeable the heavier a spring you use. The heaviest spring I tried in them were 150g actuation 185g bottom out & I could barely notice the bump. It was there but in a bad way TBH, it was so long & drawn out with those springs it more felt like something stuck in the switch than an actual mechanism of it IMO. Same goes for clicky switches except the click is unaffected which makes it feel even more bizarre than the expected feel.

I would personally say 100g springs & under are fine for any type of switch, but once you get into springs over 100g they are best matched with linear switches. At least that is my take on it after experimenting with 80g gold plated, 100g stainless steel, 150g gold plated springs with a bunch of different switches & all 3 major switch types. I would encourage you to experiment for yourself though as some people do find ultra heavy springs & tactile switches to be a combo they like. The other pc of advice I would throw out there too is lubing your switches makes a big difference when working with ultra heavy springs. The heaviness tends to exaggerate scratchiness & has a generally rougher feel in un-lubed switches IME.

[Digit]

my weak-tea 2c:

i went 62g.

they feel nice, on my test block.

havnt got em on actual keyboard in use yet, but from the feel compared to the cherry brown i live with, glad i got the 62g.    glad i didnt go for heavier.  that's gauged by how i guestimate how they'd feel from the different shaped bumps on em too, not just the bigger weight number.

[kmba]

I think 67s are slightly more tactile feeling than 78. Both are nice, and really comes down to your weight preference. My first order I got 120x 65, 67, and 78. Ended up keeping both 67 and 78 for builds because they're both nice, and selling the 65s.

[_rubik]

I went 65g because 67g were sold out at the time. I'm slightly regretting it now. Love the switches either way, I don't think you could go wrong.

[eksuen]

I also found the 67g to be more tactile than the 78g swtiches.

[SBJ]

IME, yes it is true. The heavier the spring, the more long & drawn out the tactile bump becomes, causing it to lose it's feel if that makes sense. I've done some testing with Zealios & heavy springs looking for a combination I would like. The tactile bump get less & less noticeable the heavier a spring you use. The heaviest spring I tried in them were 150g actuation 185g bottom out & I could barely notice the bump. It was there but in a bad way TBH, it was so long & drawn out with those springs it more felt like something stuck in the switch than an actual mechanism of it IMO. Same goes for clicky switches except the click is unaffected which makes it feel even more bizarre than the expected feel.

I would personally say 100g springs & under are fine for any type of switch, but once you get into springs over 100g they are best matched with linear switches. At least that is my take on it after experimenting with 80g gold plated, 100g stainless steel, 150g gold plated springs with a bunch of different switches & all 3 major switch types. I would encourage you to experiment for yourself though as some people do find ultra heavy springs & tactile switches to be a combo they like. The other pc of advice I would throw out there too is lubing your switches makes a big difference when working with ultra heavy springs. The heaviness tends to exaggerate scratchiness & has a generally rougher feel in un-lubed switches IME.

Ah cool. Very nice info thank you.

I also found the 67g to be more tactile than the 78g swtiches.

Thanks! I guess it's 67g for me then!

[phinix]

If I can continue this subject - so zealios users - would you say that whoever loves topre, should go for Zealios? 67 or 78g?
I tried MX browns and after a long use Istarted to hate this scratchy bump in the middle of travel.

I love topre 55g. To be honest I cannot tell where the tactile bump is in 55g topre:) Its like heavy linear for me:)

Would I like 67g Zealios or should I go for 78g?
As for force, I tried 80g mx greens and liked them, so force wise I don't mind both.

PS. Does anyone have just one 67g and 78g Zealio switch that could sell me? I would like to try them out, don't want to buy whole sample, as to ship it to UK would cost $20.

[ShishKabobJerry]

I see. Appreciate the feedback guys. Initially wanted the 78g cause I really wanted a heavier switch for my Planck, but looks like I gotta think about it now. Maybe I might have to get a switch tester or something. 

[OnTheBrink]

If I can continue this subject - so zealios users - would you say that whoever loves topre, should go for Zealios? 67 or 78g?
I tried MX browns and after a long use Istarted to hate this scratchy bump in the middle of travel.

I love topre 55g. To be honest I cannot tell where the tactile bump is in 55g topre:) Its like heavy linear for me:)

Would I like 67g Zealios or should I go for 78g?
As for force, I tried 80g mx greens and liked them, so force wise I don't mind both.

PS. Does anyone have just one 67g and 78g Zealio switch that could sell me? I would like to try them out, don't want to buy whole sample, as to ship it to UK would cost $20.

I asked this same question up above if you missed it / want to read the answer in more detail. However, yes, from what I have been told 67g is the sweet spot for Topre lovers. I did hear though that lubed Zealios switches are like Topre but smoother and better overall because of the tactile bump location and the way the step actuated. Making the tactile feedback excellent for Topre lovers but less sluggish for gamers. This is why I ordered the switches for this new build but I won't know if this is accurate until I try it myself.

60/40 if you want leaded solder.

https://smile.amazon.com/KESTER-SOLDER-24-6040-0027-Stand-Diameter/dp/B01MSWYSUU/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1494566689&sr=1-1&keywords=kester+tin+lead+solder

SAC305 if you want lead-free.

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00DED6ML6/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1QFVQCVPU20NS&coliid=ICKSTKKZRB0QF

I've been using SAC305 for all my builds.

Do you think I should spend the extra money for the unleaded? That seems kind of expensive.

I want to lube the switches as well as I have never done it. Do you have any lube you recommend?

[eksuen]

60/40 if you want leaded solder.

https://smile.amazon.com/KESTER-SOLDER-24-6040-0027-Stand-Diameter/dp/B01MSWYSUU/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1494566689&sr=1-1&keywords=kester+tin+lead+solder

SAC305 if you want lead-free.

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00DED6ML6/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1QFVQCVPU20NS&coliid=ICKSTKKZRB0QF

I've been using SAC305 for all my builds.

Do you think I should spend the extra money for the unleaded? That seems kind of expensive.

I want to lube the switches as well as I have never done it. Do you have any lube you recommend?

It's entirely up to you. The main reason for the switch to lead free is to comply with Europe's ROHS regulations, but since you won't be selling your keyboards in Europe (at least in a commercial sense), you can technically circumvent ROHS. Lead free is usually considered technically inferior to leaded solder in terms of long term reliability, but that's typically for circuits that will be operating in more aggressive environments (e.g. XBOX360 red ring of death was a lead free solder issue: poor design for heat dissipation added thermal stress and caused solder joints to crack). For a keyboard, I doubt it'll make much difference in the long run. I use lead free simply because I have easy access to it. If you have time, I encourage you to do some research to understand the advantages and disadvantages of leaded vs. lead free and the shift towards lead free. I don't think the added knowledge regarding the intricacies and innards of all the electronics we use would ever be a bad thing.

Regarding lube, I have never lubed my switches so I can't recommend anything personally. I use http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/keyboard-parts/super-lube-silicone-lubricating-grease-with-ptfe.html for my stabs, though. I wonder if it can also be used for switches.

[eksuen]

If I can continue this subject - so zealios users - would you say that whoever loves topre, should go for Zealios? 67 or 78g?
I tried MX browns and after a long use Istarted to hate this scratchy bump in the middle of travel.

I love topre 55g. To be honest I cannot tell where the tactile bump is in 55g topre:) Its like heavy linear for me:)

Would I like 67g Zealios or should I go for 78g?
As for force, I tried 80g mx greens and liked them, so force wise I don't mind both.

PS. Does anyone have just one 67g and 78g Zealio switch that could sell me? I would like to try them out, don't want to buy whole sample, as to ship it to UK would cost $20.

If what you crave is the bump, MOD-M switches have a more pronounced bump compared to 67g Zealios. Some say they are not as smooth, but I don't notice any difference in smoothness when typing (I'm not very sensitive to smooth/scratchy feeling of sliders). I have boards with MOD-M's and boards with 67g Zealios. I actually prefer the 67g by a small margin.

I believe I have at least one spare each of 67g, 78g, and MOD-M. I'll check when I get home today. Shoot me a PM and we can work out shipping and all that.

[fatpolomanjr]

My mod m have a great bump, but the smoothness of zealios win me over. You should definitely test out 78g. Get a switch tester. The heavier weight is what was always missing from the lighter switches for me, and I didn't experience much if any loss of tactility. Can't stand mx clears though.

[SBJ]

My mod m have a great bump, but the smoothness of zealios win me over. You should definitely test out 78g. Get a switch tester. The heavier weight is what was always missing from the lighter switches for me, and I didn't experience much if any loss of tactility. Can't stand mx clears though.

Hm yeah I will definitey need to get some 67g and 78g.
Mod M I don't know. I will have to do some googling.
I really crave the bump!

[phinix]

My mod m have a great bump, but the smoothness of zealios win me over. You should definitely test out 78g. Get a switch tester. The heavier weight is what was always missing from the lighter switches for me, and I didn't experience much if any loss of tactility. Can't stand mx clears though.

Hm yeah I will definitey need to get some 67g and 78g.
Mod M I don't know. I will have to do some googling.
I really crave the bump!

That's want I'm going to do!

eksuen was so kind and posted me samples of 67g, 78g and mod-m.

I should soon receive them and will see how those feel.

[SBJ]

My mod m have a great bump, but the smoothness of zealios win me over. You should definitely test out 78g. Get a switch tester. The heavier weight is what was always missing from the lighter switches for me, and I didn't experience much if any loss of tactility. Can't stand mx clears though.

Hm yeah I will definitey need to get some 67g and 78g.
Mod M I don't know. I will have to do some googling.
I really crave the bump!

That's want I'm going to do!

eksuen was so kind and posted me samples of 67g, 78g and mod-m.

I should soon receive them and will see how those feel.

Fantastic! Please do let us know what you think.

[ShishKabobJerry]

That's awesome man. Give is a lil review once you get em!

[phinix]

No probs, I will:)

[libertycannon]

Concur with 67g

[kmba]

I've compared MOD-M and MOD-H switches to zealios, and I prefer the zealios.  I ended up selling the 200 MODs I bought without putting them on a board.  MOD-M was more tactile compared to the H due to the lighter spring (similar to how the zealio 67 feels slightly more tactile than the 78), but there was significantly more wobble on the MODs compared to R4+ zealios, and they were noticeably less smooth.  While I did enjoy the slightly increased tactility, the cons outweighed the pros for me.  Zealios just feel nicer overall and more refined. 

[eksuen]

Zealios just feel nicer overall and more refined.

Agreed. In my case, I do like the MOD-M, but I just like 67g Zealios more.

[klennkellon]

The new Copper Kailh switches may also be a good alternative to Zealios too. I've heard some people say they really liked them but it is all hearsay for now.

[SBJ]

The new Copper Kailh switches may also be a good alternative to Zealios too. I've heard some people say they really liked them but it is all hearsay for now.

Hm, I am not opposed to trying them. As long as the tactility is good I'll try just about anything.

[Liocer]

67 is most like topre but.  You will want to lube them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[-musubi]

One vote for 67g here as well!

[schoolbus]

The new Copper Kailh switches may also be a good alternative to Zealios too. I've heard some people say they really liked them but it is all hearsay for now.

I mean they're not bad, but I wouldn't really say you can compare them to zealios or ergo clears. Their tactility isn't really on the same level.

[phinix]

67 is most like topre but.  You will want to lube them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I thought Zealios are lubed already? Like they are like mx clears lubed?