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geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => Topic started by: J888www on Mon, 06 September 2010, 17:30:40

Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: J888www on Mon, 06 September 2010, 17:30:40: Quote from: British;212133
What size is the soldering iron tip you used ?
Any useful tip for a rusty-not-so-good-solderer ?

Just to update an answer to an old question. Most people will point you to the direction of a Weller. To those professionals, Hakko are arguably the best manufacturer of Soldering Irons (Made in Nippon), but they are also extremely expensive, which is why many people use other lesser quality products.
Now Prayers have been answered, an OEM product (supposedly manufactured by Hakko, :tape2:), but with an absurdly cheap affordable price tag, $39.95 which includes one FREE replacement ceramic heating element. In the UK, it's slightly more expensive at £29.12p (Inclusive of VAT).

Or if you prefer a Digital display model at a slightly higher price.

CircuitSpecialist (http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/7307) or CircuitSpecialist_Europe (http://www.circuitspecialists.eu/soldering-stations-for-standard-soldering-not-lf-c-1_48.html).

There are large numbers of "El Cheapo" from the Central Kingdom, but this is Quality at price which even my frail memory cannot forget, I'll purchase one very soon to replace my ancient Weller SI25D.

NB: Be sure to check YouTube on how to Tin the soldering iron tip to enjoy many wonderful hours of soldering (it too can become addictive).
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: WhiteRice on Mon, 06 September 2010, 17:38:56: Crap right after I bought a TMC off ebay for $30
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: JBert on Mon, 06 September 2010, 17:43:20: How many watts does that station offer? I have some cheap soldering irons with 25 watt and they take quite some time to (re-)heat.

My trusty old Weller might not have anything fancy (temperature is controlled by the magnetic tip), but it still does the job well with its 50 watts.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: J888www on Mon, 06 September 2010, 19:54:40: I'm now deciding on the Analog Lead Free model.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 06 September 2010, 22:17:26: Quote from: ripster;220590
Does it take Weller tips?

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=12398&stc=1&d=1283829407)

Better ask Welly about the Wellers.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: J888www on Tue, 07 September 2010, 02:53:10: Quote from: JBert;220527
....soldering irons with 25 watt and they take quite some time to (re-)heat.
If using damp sponge pad to clean tip, it draws heat away from tip, wire type cleaner works better, or maybe just a small stainless steel metal brush (size of tooth brush) with tin.

Standard tips survives for 5-7 days, Hakko tips will last approximately two Months, so they say, but I guess it's all down to how you use the soldering iron.
There's also a great difference between Lead based and Lead-Free products. (ie. using standard tip with Lead-Free solder will kill the tip quicker.)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: British on Tue, 07 September 2010, 04:41:00: Yeah, I was heading towards Weller as well, but those CSI (meh...) stations might be worth a look.

What do you mean when you say tips "survive" only a few days ?
The way I saw it was that tips lasted for ages, providing you're not into soldering very small stuff.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: TheSoundofTyping on Tue, 07 September 2010, 06:10:35: What a coinkeydink, I was about to make a thread asking about soldering iron temperatures -

What temperature range is considered to be the best for small (PCB type) soldering?
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: EverythingIBM on Tue, 07 September 2010, 06:39:20: Quote from: TheSoundofTyping;220665
What a coinkeydink, I was about to make a thread asking about soldering iron temperatures -

What temperature range is considered to be the best for small (PCB type) soldering?

Not sure if this is helpful, but "badcaps.net (http://badcaps.net/pages.php?vid=31)" recommends 40 watts for capacitor work on PCBs:
Quote
NEVER use 'cold heat' types of soldering irons!! They work off the principle of an ARC welder, and emit a current. This can instantly destroy your board when contact is made. If a good soldering station is not available to you, a 40 watt solder pencil with a fine tip on it will be sufficient.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Lanx on Tue, 07 September 2010, 07:27:41: what about this?
http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-937-Digital-Soldering-Station/dp/B000I30QBW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1283862278&sr=1-1
i have no knowledge of soldering irons or nothing, but really want to get one, googling csi station 1a, i saw a few mentions of this and if you buy the csi station1a it's 12bucks shipping, so this amazon one is basically the same price but digital? looks japanesey too!
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: didjamatic on Tue, 07 September 2010, 08:27:41: Where I work there are cleanroom manufacturing facilities and they all use Hakko. I absolutely love my Hakko soldering station, it took a while to find a deal on it but I'm happy I did.

That new, cheaper unit you posted is likely their response to the knockoffs. No offense to Aoyue owners but their knock-off of Hakko is very blatant in many models - they even copy the model numbers! But if you look into the specs, they don't compare. Read about the cable that connects to the iron, big difference. It's like seeing a Keytronic and Model M side by side, they mostly look the same, have the same number of keys, perform the same basic function, but they are very different inside. For some that is fine, even a 40w iron from Radio Shack works great so don't feel like you have to have a soldering station to do mods - you dont. My old cheapy 40w Radio Shack iron worked just fine, but I couldn't go as fast or the tip would cool off. I get a more consistent result from my soldering station and I can work much faster and it's more relaxing and enjoyable where it was a bit more tedious with the cheapy. But seriously either are great. If these lower end units really are Hakkos, I'm glad to see they are offering something to compete with those knocking them off.

My Hakko is the FM-202 but has the newer iron, holder, tips, tip holder and tip cleaner like this photo. I LOVE IT.

(http://www.tequipment.net/ProductImages/Hakko/FM-202_setup.jpg)

These 936's are really popular among the Hobbyist and RC crowd, I guess they make their own battery packs. This station is also available in Black, White. :)
(http://b2r.rcsignup.com/shared/images/bizProdPics/BID_14_970156.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/Ray_Tube/hakko-936.jpg)

Here's another knock-off.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2431/3802569940_0004554ce5.jpg)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: TheSoundofTyping on Tue, 07 September 2010, 08:50:01: Quote from: EverythingIBM;220668
Not sure if this is helpful, but "badcaps.net (http://badcaps.net/pages.php?vid=31)" recommends 40 watts for capacitor work on PCBs:

Oh, thanks for your answer, but I meant temperature in degrees :P (as the stations in the OP have selectable temperature)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: didjamatic on Tue, 07 September 2010, 14:12:42: I use 750 on keyboard switch soldering/desoldering.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Stone on Fri, 10 September 2010, 14:23:21: Wow, just wow. Nothing will clean (erode?) quite as thoroughly as HCl, I guess...

One of my friends at uni had one of those knockoff hot-air stations, think it was about the £120 version. It was actually surprisingly good - with a syringe of decent leaded solderpaste I was repeatedly soldering and desoldering QFP48s with less than half an hour's practice. I can do it by hand individually too (woo myopia) but why make your life hard if you don't have to?

I've been meaning to replace my crappy home iron for ages as I've just been using the Wellers at work - so I'll have a serious look at those in the OP. Thanks!

Stone
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: aegrotatio on Fri, 10 September 2010, 14:36:55: Okay, how do you guys tell when the tips are worn out? Besides failing to tin the tip, is there a way to tell?
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: PAINKILLER on Sat, 11 September 2010, 11:59:20: I use a low voltage 25W soldering iron, very old and made in the USSR :D Model ГОСТ 7219-83 (which stands for "Government Standard 7219-83"). This **** is amazing! It may heat up relatively slowly and lack any control, but it is damn nice and easy to use. The best part about it is the tip. I haven't seen other soldering irons with the same type of tip and don't know if it even has a name. It is something like this, but shorter:
(http://www.prokits.com.tw/pkjpg/pic1/symbol/8PK-S120NA_NB_NC_ND_NAD_NBD/line-SI-S120T-4C.jpg)
The shape is a cylinder about 25mm long (1") and 4mm diameter (.16"), intersected at 45 degrees. The intersected side is actually concave, so it forms a very nice solder reservoir. The first time I saw it I was wondering is it supposed to be like that or is the guy just giving me a crappy iron. It can hold about 1-2 solder joints worth of material in the reservoir and about as much more over it, to form a kind of a bubble, if you will. The very tip has a little notch which fits onto any wire that you want to solder or desolder, without slipping. You can also run a length of wire a few times through the notch to easily cover it in solder: it gets cleaned by the flux which floats on top of the solder in the reservoir and by the tip itself and takes solder from the reservoir. I only have the reservoir and the notch covered in solder, and only now when I see this pic I realize that maybe the side is also intended to be covered, but I don't see the point. This tip design is also very nice for desoldering. When the reservoir is full of solder a good tap on the handle gets the material out splashing as a drop. Then if you melt a joint, material flows in to fill the reservoir through capillary action. You repeat that a couple of times and the joint loses enough material to remove the element you want to desolder. Simple as that! I have never actually used a desolder pump or braid, so I'm not saying it is as easy as using those 2 things, but you can reasonably well do without them if you use this kind of iron tip. The tip also requires very little maintenance, because the reservoir is permanently covered in solder and anything unwanted there can be flushed out by simply adding some solder to fill the reservoir and then tapping the handle.
This is my first soldering iron, I've tried other more powerful irons with conical tips, but I'm definitely sticking with this one. It sees only occasional use, so you shouldn't consider my words as a pro's words or anything. But IMHO it is awesome and I highly recommend this kind of tip, especially for novices, for it's ease of use, low maintenance, greater solder-bearing area and volume, and all the tricks it can do that I described above. I don't even know if this type of tip is widely used or not, but if you can get one, it's definitely worth trying it.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: JBert on Sun, 12 September 2010, 07:31:18: Quote from: ripster;221703
I dunno where J888 is getting his info but I've had mine for years and years before replacing recently when it didn't seem to be taking tinning very well.

People tend to overlook how important this is to prepare the tip and end up overheating the pads and lifting them.
I did have one slowly die, though I estimate it was 20 years old.

Basically, it is good until the coating is compromised. Once that coating is gone at some spot, the heat and acidic flux will cause the copper in the tip to be eaten away.
The tip in this case started to hollow out with the normal screw-driver point chaning into just two points with nothing in between.

Quote from: PAINKILLER;222022
I use a low voltage 25W soldering iron, very old and made in the USSR :D Model ГОСТ 7219-83 (which stands for "Government Standard 7219-83"). This **** is amazing! It may heat up relatively slowly and lack any control, but it is damn nice and easy to use. The best part about it is the tip. I haven't seen other soldering irons with the same type of tip and don't know if it even has a name. It is something like this, but shorter:
Show Image
(http://www.prokits.com.tw/pkjpg/pic1/symbol/8PK-S120NA_NB_NC_ND_NAD_NBD/line-SI-S120T-4C.jpg)

The shape is a cylinder about 25mm long (1") and 4mm diameter (.16"), intersected at 45 degrees. The intersected side is actually concave, so it forms a very nice solder reservoir. The first time I saw it I was wondering is it supposed to be like that or is the guy just giving me a crappy iron. It can hold about 1-2 solder joints worth of material in the reservoir and about as much more over it, to form a kind of a bubble, if you will. The very tip has a little notch which fits onto any wire that you want to solder or desolder, without slipping. You can also run a length of wire a few times through the notch to easily cover it in solder: it gets cleaned by the flux which floats on top of the solder in the reservoir and by the tip itself and takes solder from the reservoir. I only have the reservoir and the notch covered in solder, and only now when I see this pic I realize that maybe the side is also intended to be covered, but I don't see the point. This tip design is also very nice for desoldering. When the reservoir is full of solder a good tap on the handle gets the material out splashing as a drop. Then if you melt a joint, material flows in to fill the reservoir through capillary action. You repeat that a couple of times and the joint loses enough material to remove the element you want to desolder. Simple as that! I have never actually used a desolder pump or braid, so I'm not saying it is as easy as using those 2 things, but you can reasonably well do without them if you use this kind of iron tip. The tip also requires very little maintenance, because the reservoir is permanently covered in solder and anything unwanted there can be flushed out by simply adding some solder to fill the reservoir and then tapping the handle.
This is my first soldering iron, I've tried other more powerful irons with conical tips, but I'm definitely sticking with this one. It sees only occasional use, so you shouldn't consider my words as a pro's words or anything. But IMHO it is awesome and I highly recommend this kind of tip, especially for novices, for it's ease of use, low maintenance, greater solder-bearing area and volume, and all the tricks it can do that I described above. I don't even know if this type of tip is widely used or not, but if you can get one, it's definitely worth trying it.
This sounds a lot like my worn down soldering point. Mine also held some solder in the hollows of the former screw driver, but the tip got eaten away so far that it became hard to even touch wires with it.

So could it be that it is a worn-down chisel tip (http://www.brewstersbatteries.co.uk/catalog/weller-bit-sg40-7mm-chisel-bit-for-w101d-iron-each-p-109.html), or can you actually clean the "reservoir" and see that it has an actual corrosion-resistant coating?

Obviously, you can keep on using this bit if it works for you, but you might find it gets harder to use if it is in fact a worn-down one.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: didjamatic on Sun, 12 September 2010, 08:42:31: Quote from: aegrotatio;221698
Okay, how do you guys tell when the tips are worn out? Besides failing to tin the tip, is there a way to tell?

The tip may lose it's plating and will need to be replaced but often it just needs to be cleaned.

Quote from: ripster;220751
Racing decal soldering stations? That's geeky.

I use a block of this stuff. Too lazy to put water in the sponge.
Show Image
(http://ny-image2.etsy.com/il_430xN.82824954.jpg)

The proper way to use it is with country music. The IMPROPER way is to take on a plane shouting "Allahu Ackbar!".

Nothing like the fumes of Hydrochloric Acid to wake you up in the morning!

My grandparents used to do a lot of stained glass windows and I remember them using that stuff. Based on that video, it works really well and a bonus is you wouldn't have to trim your nose hairs for a while. Holy smokes.

The hakko tip cleaner has brass wire in it that is covered with flux so a couple inserts of the tip and it's clean then I tin it with. Not sure how long they last. They are used in production lines in many industrial applications so I think it will last a while.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: PAINKILLER on Sun, 12 September 2010, 10:35:07: Quote from: JBert;222343
This sounds a lot like my worn down soldering point. Mine also held some solder in the hollows of the former screw driver, but the tip got eaten away so far that it became hard to even touch wires with it.

So could it be that it is a worn-down chisel tip (http://www.brewstersbatteries.co.uk/catalog/weller-bit-sg40-7mm-chisel-bit-for-w101d-iron-each-p-109.html), or can you actually clean the "reservoir" and see that it has an actual corrosion-resistant coating?

Obviously, you can keep on using this bit if it works for you, but you might find it gets harder to use if it is in fact a worn-down one.

It may well be worn down, because I was just given it when I was a kid, was barely told anything about how to use it, and I've done many stupid things with it, like melting plastics and igniting firecracker gunpowder :wacko: It was also of course used when I got it, being probably older than I am. So it did have a hollow from the beginning, but it has not progressed much, if at all, over all the years. Hmm I do not remember the notch being there originally though :) The flux floats at the surface and there is always some solder in the "reservoir" so I guess that protects it from being totally wasted after so much (ab)use. I don't know how to clean the solder from the tip to see below it.
The tip does not look like a chisel, in that it is not straight at the very tip, but round. Here you can see a similar tip at an angle: http://www.pcb-soldering.co.uk/index.php?target=products&product_id=207 They call it a "bevel tip" there. If that's the way bevel/chisel tips degrade over time, they seem to do much better than the common conical ones in that respect.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: aegrotatio on Sun, 12 September 2010, 14:45:44: I can't find it but I read somewhere the tip hollows out. What's inside it?
I have a bag of tips of all kinds of different shapes that fit a nice soldering station. I believe it is a Weller knock-off I bought from TechAmerica, the shortly-lived Tandy mail-order concern. It has a digital temperature display (both set point and actual temp).
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Voixdelion on Sun, 12 September 2010, 15:13:40: what are reasonable price ranges to expect for and what should one look for in a good quality soldering station? I may just have to look into this. My first formal experiences soldering was done with butane open flame torches rather than irons (metals I in high school), so it never occurred to me that some of the inconsistency in my results with an iron might be due to the quality of iron involved until reading this thread. I have always been better with the fire fed butane torch types than the electric ones but it never occurred to me that it might be because I could better control the heat at the tip via a visual on the flame. But I much prefer working with the lead based stuff to the non. Is lead so toxic that it merits the strict regulations on soldered components? Its not like people are eating circuit boards is it?
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: PAINKILLER on Sun, 12 September 2010, 17:44:56: Quote from: Voixdelion;222490
Is lead so toxic that it merits the strict regulations on soldered components? Its not like people are eating circuit boards is it?

That is precisely how it is in Europe. (http://web.archive.org/web/20080206125410rn_1/edition.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9806/11/fringe.mr.eat.everything/) Recycling installations are expensive after all, so they try to make everything biodegradable and edible. We are so smart in Europe that we teach nature what is good for it.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Voixdelion on Sun, 12 September 2010, 22:24:35: Quote from: PAINKILLER;222530
That is precisely how it is in Europe. (http://web.archive.org/web/20080206125410rn_1/edition.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9806/11/fringe.mr.eat.everything/) Recycling installations are expensive after all, so they try to make everything biodegradable and edible. We are so smart in Europe that we teach nature what is good for it.

Now that's just odd. And my honey thinks I have a cast iron stomach! At least I don't have a stomach for cast iron!
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: JBert on Mon, 13 September 2010, 12:49:45: Quote from: aegrotatio;222486
I can't find it but I read somewhere the tip hollows out. What's inside it?
Mostly they are made from plated copper, having great heat transfer while the plating protects the tip from corrosion.
Other metals can be used but won't transfer as much heat from the heating element to the working end of the tip.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Konrad on Mon, 13 September 2010, 21:54:18: Quote from: PAINKILLER
I use a low voltage 25W soldering iron, very old and made in the USSR ... The best part about it is the tip. I haven't seen other soldering irons with the same type of tip and don't know if it even has a name.
I also prefer low-wattage units for soft soldering. Anything from 15-40W is suitable for electronics work. Wattage equates to the iron's heat-holding capacity; larger irons take longer to heat up and cool down during use. Lightweight irons are actually faster overall because they reheat quickly, but larger (or more heat-dense) solder joints simply require more raw power. 50W+ irons tend to be clumsy and easily exceed semiconductor thermal damage thresholds unless awkward heatsinking tools are used; much of this can be avoided by just getting the right tool for the job.

Although most of my stuff is Metcal, I often prefer my circa-1955 10-50W "Super" and 10-25W "Mini" Scope Laboratories (Australia) soldering pencils because they allow fine temperature control by manually "pulsing" the transformer trigger. For larger (or silver-bearing) solderwork I often use a Dremel VersaTip (old electrical version) fitted with a tip-mounted LM35 and uC-automated temperature control; one of the Dremel tips can hold X-acto blades or even nickle-plated steel sewing needles which, when tinned, make superior (disposable 20/$1) fine-precision tips (they aren't copper, but still get very hot due to their small volume-intersection). Maybe the damned Dremel was meant for woodcarving or leatherburning or whatever, but makes a good 550C silver-soldering iron. I also use a copper scrubbing pad and damp sponge (both very affordable), a jar of rosin (worth it) and bottle of liquid flux (also worth it), and kimwipes for critical cleaning tasks (****ing expensive but sometimes necessary). A little (rosin-fluxed) brass brush is awfully handy, though people might stare.

Weller is just a brand. A popular brand, largely because of its common consumer availability. There are many other brands which are better or cost less (or both). Many DIY/mod/hack methods exist to add manual or automatic temperature sensing and control to any iron. Likewise, any iron can easily be made "ESD safe". These are essential features for any real electrical soldering, but don't pay ridiculous prices for them. If you plan to do a lot of soldering then it's worth also getting "tweezers" and "desoldering" irons, along with the usual braid, suckers, and vacuum tools. I personally never liked the old clicking relay irons, they heat too slowly and the sound bugs me.

Your special tip might just be a standard chisel/wedge which has been worn (or intentionally shaped) into a convex shape. Or it might be a variation of an SMT draw soldering "hoof" tip usually called "miniwave". A bewildering array of special tips exist but they are all variations of the basic geometries; some are designed for optimal use with particular solders, most are just marketing gimmicks. Soldering bits are very personal, just like any other craftsman tools; one man's perfect bit is another man's headache.

Yes, tips do get worn. I go through about 2-3 per week at work, sometimes more, but I use many different irons so I can alternate hot irons or use different temps or tips on the fly (I do this sort of soldering (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_cDV92IuWY&feature=related) for a living). Any given tip should last at least several months; or even years or decades for an average guy who hardly touches a soldering iron. How do you know when the tip is worn? It's pitted, cracked, blunted or misshapen; the "bad" areas will no longer accept tin. Contrary to what the makers claim there's nothing really fancy about most tips: they're made of copper, brass, bronze, or steel; plated with nickle or chromium. They can easily be machined or reshaped (or often interchanged between models/brands) as required. If you burn them out a lot then it's worth fabbing your own in batches.

Properly cleaning and tinning (and re-tinning) your tips is essential; it makes the soldering easier and extends tip life considerably. Otherwise the tip gets coated in oxides and oils: solder won't adhere, heat transfer sucks, and the tip surface corrodes. If you're just starting then it's worth reading a few guides and practicing, practicing, practicing on a few pieces of junk before actually soldering anything valuable.

The "best" temperature setting depends on many factors, foremost:
- the size, shape, mass and density of the solder joints
- exact alloy composition of existing solder and new solder
(standard 60/40(183-190C), 50/50 (185-215C), or eutectic 63/37 (183C) rosin-core soft solders are ideal for 99% of electronics, lead-free crap is also available)
- characteristics of the soldering iron
- personal preference.

Any questions?
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Konrad on Mon, 13 September 2010, 23:08:10: The OP's CircuitSpecialists "Hakko" looks good enough for non-professional use.

Weller tips aren't very expensive in small quantities.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Konrad on Mon, 13 September 2010, 23:42:55: Who needs to turn 'em off? Quality is probably a nice solid 5/10. CircuitSpecialists is known for vending binned items. (Although all I've ever bought from them are colour cystals and a UVEPROM shoebox, lol. Their test equipment is overpriced.)

Yeah, nonstandard tips would be an issue for many people.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: RickyJ on Wed, 13 October 2010, 20:25:34: Quote from: ripster;223026
Just get a Weller. Lots of tips available. Will last a lifetime. Most importantly get one with automatic turn off so you don't burn down the house.

I use a WES51. (http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WES51-Analog-Soldering-Station/dp/B000BRC2XU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1284436051&sr=8-2)
Show Image
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41WVs6AdNqL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

This.

I've used my WES51 for about 6 years now, from wiring cars to production surface mount PCB work. I've got multiple tips for it, they're pretty cheap at Fry's in the US (expensive in Canada, stocked up the last time I was south of the border), but I haven't worn one out yet. I can hand-solder 0603-sized SMD components with ease, and super-fine pitched ICs.

I use 700°F for everyday leaded soldering/desoldering. I drop it down to 650 for delicate leaded work, and up it to 750 for leaded work with heavy traces/mass or for lead-free work.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: kps on Mon, 18 October 2010, 10:01:44: Quote from: Lanx;220678
what about this?
http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-937-Digital-Soldering-Station/dp/B000I30QBW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1283862278&sr=1-1
i have no knowledge of soldering irons or nothing, but really want to get one, googling csi station 1a, i saw a few mentions of this and if you buy the csi station1a it's 12bucks shipping, so this amazon one is basically the same price but digital? looks japanesey too!

I have one. It's a Hakko clone, just as it looks, and takes Hakko-compatible tips and elements. I suggest the analog dial version (936 clone) instead, since setting the temperature with up/down buttons is slow.

My other iron is a WTCPT. The Weller is a tool you can pass on to your grandchildren; the Aoyue is one you can throw away without pain when something better comes along.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Shawn Stanford on Mon, 18 October 2010, 11:10:59: Okay, this weekend for the first time in my life I had a need to solder. I had to fix the jack on a pair of Bose headphones. I picked up a new jack at Radio Shack and a $5 soldering iron at Harbor Freight and went at it in my kitchen over a bamboo cutting board.

First: I got it, although there were a few moments when I didn't think I would. A couple things I noticed:

1. I need one of those clippy robo-arm things to hold the work. I only have so many fingers and duct tape can only do so much.

2. The clippy robo-arm thingy needs to have a magnifying glass attached. My eyes are not getting any better.

3. I need some advice on how to do this.

I didn't go into it thinking, "How hard could it be?" I knew it would be tricky. The hard part turned out to be manipulating the solder. I couldn't figure out how to get it to reliably pool on the wire/connection point. A lot of the time it would just form a little ball and roll the hell away. Very frustrating!

So: "F*ing soldering. How does it work?"
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: kriminal on Mon, 18 October 2010, 14:04:47: thnx for this thread i'll soon be purchasing that weller
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: RickyJ on Mon, 18 October 2010, 14:37:52: Quote from: ripster;235469
I just fixed a Nikon Coolscan V (no longer available) using $2 in parts and my trusty Weller WES50.

Those little SMT IR Emitter buggers on membranes were no problem for it's sheer awesomeness.

Cherry MX Blue for scale.
Show Image
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4124/5093550270_1604ea9ba2_z.jpg)

I fixed a Canon Rebel XTi last week with mine. A screw inside the case came out and shorted the main logic PCB, blew the main surface mount fuse from the battery. The fuse is 1.60x0.813mm (0.063x0.032"), size 0603 in surface-mount standards. In the red circle in the following pic:

(http://members.shaw.ca/rgustafson/rebel-camera-fuse.jpg)

Didn't even have to switch from my daily-driver ETH tip for that one. For fine stuff, the pitch of those IC's or way finer, I use my ETK tip. Good flux and good desoldering braid helps for the super fine stuff, tiny Atmel Atmega chips and the like.

For soldering on membranes, I dumb down the temp to 650°F, put good flux on the contacts, put a bit of solder on the tip, and just touch the leg on the membrane. The old Volkswagen instrument cluster flexible circuit membranes I fix are way more temperature sensitive than the thick stuff in printers/scanners/etc, it's pretty silly!
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: J888www on Mon, 18 October 2010, 14:54:40: Quote from: ripster;235574
You talking about the one in the OP? I wonder if he ever bought one.

I got the CSI ESD safe Model No 2901 Lead-Free Soldering station, that's what the box, on the desk, reads. I can't remember the OP, bad memory recall, so not sure which model I was blabbering.
Lol, at first, I didn't recall it was my OP until I checked the 1st page. Old age does wonders for the Soul, it lets you forget things.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: J888www on Mon, 18 October 2010, 15:10:44: Probably, knowing little ol' me, I'll forget to turn it off.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: wap32 on Mon, 18 October 2010, 17:41:13: I've been using an Antex 25W regular soldering iron for about 4.5 years and so far it has worked flawlessly.
Tips are readily available at Farnell or directly from the manufacturer.

Quote from: RickyJ;235580
I fixed a Canon Rebel XTi last week with mine. A screw inside the case came out and shorted the main logic PCB, blew the main surface mount fuse from the battery. The fuse is 1.60x0.813mm (0.063x0.032"), size 0603 in surface-mount standards. In the red circle in the following pic:

Show Image
(http://members.shaw.ca/rgustafson/rebel-camera-fuse.jpg)

Didn't even have to switch from my daily-driver ETH tip for that one. For fine stuff, the pitch of those IC's or way finer, I use my ETK tip. Good flux and good desoldering braid helps for the super fine stuff, tiny Atmel Atmega chips and the like.

For soldering on membranes, I dumb down the temp to 650°F, put good flux on the contacts, put a bit of solder on the tip, and just touch the leg on the membrane. The old Volkswagen instrument cluster flexible circuit membranes I fix are way more temperature sensitive than the thick stuff in printers/scanners/etc, it's pretty silly!

0603 can be a pain to solder! I've had to replace a similar fuse on my ThinkPad T61.
The problem wasn't so much removing/soldering the fuse as it was not touching the other SMD's around it.
Used a 0.5mm tip and with plenty flux everything went well.

(http://wap32.homeunix.org/pics/T61_fuses_s.jpg)
(look for the little guy with the 'F' mark, that's the one I had to replace)

EDIT: forgot an important note. I've found that for SMD work, a good pair of tweezers is almost as important as a good soldering iron, they can really make a huge difference.
Even for regular, non surface mount soldering, good tweezers can be very useful.
I have used both Lindstrom and VOMM tweezers and can really recommend either one.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: RickyJ on Mon, 18 October 2010, 20:40:48: Hand soldering 0603's is cake next to placing 200 of them on a board too tightly packed for labels, after placing 400 tiny dots of solder paste, then putting the whole board in the soldering oven without disturbing any of them. :lol:

Desoldering and soldering 0603's with a generic iron is quite commendable though! :D

I spent about $15 on my tweezers from Digikey, the points are sharp enough to prick your finger and draw blood without feeling it. Another good tool for SMT work is a precision flat-head screwdriver for holding the SMD component down while you solder the ends, otherwise it can stick to the solder on your tip or get moved around while you're trying to solder.

My small Cooper/Weller needlenose pliers and flush snips are also right up there on my list of great investments, they cost me $30 each locally but they've survived ~8 years of constant torture.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: wap32 on Tue, 19 October 2010, 03:44:36: Quote from: RickyJ;235730
Hand soldering 0603's is cake next to placing 200 of them on a board too tightly packed for labels, after placing 400 tiny dots of solder paste, then putting the whole board in the soldering oven without disturbing any of them. :lol:

Desoldering and soldering 0603's with a generic iron is quite commendable though! :D

Wow, that's got to take steady hands, but sounds like a tedious procedure!
Replacing that 0603 fuse was challenging enough for me.

Quote from: RickyJ;235730
I spent about $15 on my tweezers from Digikey, the points are sharp enough to prick your finger and draw blood without feeling it. Another good tool for SMT work is a precision flat-head screwdriver for holding the SMD component down while you solder the ends, otherwise it can stick to the solder on your tip or get moved around while you're trying to solder.

My small Cooper/Weller needlenose pliers and flush snips are also right up there on my list of great investments, they cost me $30 each locally but they've survived ~8 years of constant torture.

Indeed. Can't stress enough how much of a difference it makes having quality tools.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Lanx on Tue, 19 October 2010, 12:03:57: so should i be getting the hakko csi/clone maybe the op mentioned or the wellwer 51? i think i'll be soldering for a bit since this keyboard modding is getting cool, time to retire ye oldly radio shack.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: kriminal on Tue, 19 October 2010, 12:47:46: Quote from: Lanx;235987
so should i be getting the hakko csi/clone maybe the op mentioned or the wellwer 51? i think i'll be soldering for a bit since this keyboard modding is getting cool, time to retire ye oldly radio shack.

indeed been itching to retire my "shack" stock solder iron for a while.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Lanx on Tue, 19 October 2010, 13:10:52: the op's solder station with link has a bunch of tips for that clone/hakko. Any indication of which tips i should buy?
    0.8mm Chisel Tip (KD-M-0.8D)
   1mm Single Flat 40° Tip (KD-M-1C)
   1.2mm Chisel Tip (KD-M-1.2D)
   1.6mm Chisel Tip (KD-M-1.6D)
   2mm Single Flat 40° Tip (KD-M-2C)
   2.4mm Chisel Tip (KD-M-2.4D)
   3mm Single Flat 40° Tip (KD-M-3C)
   3.2mm Chisel Tip (KD-M-3.2D)
   4mm Single Flat 40° Tip (KD-M-4C)
   Conicle Fine Point Tip (KD-M-1)
   Conicle Fine Point Tip (KD-M-B)
   Long Conicle Fine Point Tip (KD-M-LB)

these are all the ones that the op's linked, i really have no idea on this area, and as further proof, i'm still using the radio shack one so like just say which ones to grab bag (cuz shipping is painful, 12bucks) i'd just like to grab a bunch of tips now and basically never think about it ever again.

oh and which ones would i use for desoldering too? (or it doesn't matter?) losta cherries to desolder.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: RickyJ on Tue, 19 October 2010, 13:26:53: You're killing me Ripster, reading that was like watching my friends try to solder wires. I've got a DC/AC inverter for my station for when I'm working on cars out of an extension cord's reach. Most important part of soldering for car stereo stuff is making sure that there's no strands poking out (good clean iron and solder works wonders), second most important is keeping the splices as short as possible so the wires can still flex when you're putting the deck into the dash.

For the price, you'll be fine doing amateur stuff with that CSI iron. Fry's has the Weller WES51 for $95 (http://www.frys.com/product/3597924?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG), which is normal for that station in the US. Mine cost me $150cdn through Digikey (still cheaper than it was locally), so don't go there for it. Two of the biggest pluses for that Weller is the lighter/smaller iron, which makes a huge difference using it for anything (tiny stuff especially), and the availability of the Weller tips for when you need something new fast for the project you're working on.

I wouldn't bother with the digital display versions at all, there's just no point unless you're a production line solder-monkey. I did somehow break the knob off my Weller when it was in my tool bag, but I could still adjust it with a screwdriver (sits at 700°F 99% of the time anyways), and Weller sent me a replacement knob for FREE.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: kps on Tue, 19 October 2010, 15:33:53: Quote from: Lanx;236017
the op's solder station with link has a bunch of tips for that clone/hakko. Any indication of which tips i should buy?

Keep in mind that since that station is a Hakko clone, you might want to spend the extra couple dollars each for actual Hakko tips.

Quote
oh and which ones would i use for desoldering too? (or it doesn't matter?) losta cherries to desolder.

Keys are coarse -- I'd say the 1.6mm would do you well there. Get a couple 1.2mm for general-purpose though-hole or wire soldering (i.e. the one you leave on and never think about again), a 0.8mm for the odd finer work, and a long conical tip in case you want to try the fuse replacement that's all the rage these days.

You'll also need a solder sucker for desoldering if you don't have one already.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Lanx on Tue, 19 October 2010, 15:48:02: yea i have the desolder pump that pops up the piston to suck, so i should invest in hakko tips instead? i mean maybe i'm just thinking tips are tips, but are these tips just like how high end tweezers are? cuz like my fiancee buys high end tweezerman and other 30$ tweezers and i see the difference myself, compared to like a 5$ loreal one (which i use for helping me solder lol).
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Konrad on Tue, 19 October 2010, 19:05:53: Cheap tweezers are cheap tweezers, you get what you pay for at the dollar store. But you don't need to pay $30 to get good tweezers. Cheap is different from inexpensive.

Incidentally, good electronics toolage (and cute chicks) can be found at your local makeup aisle. Not only decent tweezers but also "eyebrow papers" (fine-grade abrasive emery strips), lint-free chamois swabs (inexpensive) nail polish remover (solvents!), nail polish (automotive-grade polyurethane-based paints).

Soldering tips can be reshaped as desired, within limits, just be careful to tin them properly immediately after filing/grinding the metal. The most common tips are "chisel" and "point" styles, figure out which you prefer and how you use them and then you'll have a better idea about what sorts and variations of tips you should buy.

"Tweezer" (or "claw") style soldering tools are a bit overkill for casual/hobby soldering use. A good investment if you plan to mass-produce items with tiny SMT parts. Even then you can use vacuum pickup tools or specially-shaped hand tweezers to place the parts, at less cost.

Vacuum bulb or sucker tools are used for desoldering operations. Good to have, but no need to go overboard on cost/quality unless you plan to do a lot of soldering or make a lot of mistakes.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Lanx on Wed, 20 October 2010, 07:03:46: doing some google detective work and it seems the op's solder station is made by the same chinese company as aoyue so i'm thinking maybe i'll just buy a real japanese one. the hakko 936 but then i find out it should be replaced by the hakko fx888, we just don't have it and the fx888 actually looks cool but overseas only atm.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Lanx on Wed, 27 October 2010, 12:47:44: hakko 936 it is 100bucks+ the brass cleaner thing.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: didjamatic on Wed, 27 October 2010, 14:53:43: Just twist tie a bodily appendage to the cord so when you get up to leave you'll be reminded to unplug it.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 27 October 2010, 15:41:25: Quote from: didjamatic;239575
Just twist tie a bodily appendage to the cord so when you get up to leave you'll be reminded to unplug it.

Yeah, until you pull the unit off the table and the iron falls right on your crotch. I guess you'll still be reminded, though.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: RickyJ on Wed, 27 October 2010, 15:56:39: Quote from: ripster;239576
Or buy a Weller.

+1

The blinking light at temp is great, and so is the auto-shutoff.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: ironman31 on Wed, 27 October 2010, 16:16:10: My girlfriend ordered me a 936 for my birthday. Now I just have to wait for my birthday... -_-
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: kriminal on Wed, 27 October 2010, 16:18:02: Quote from: didjamatic;239575
Just twist tie a bodily appendage to the cord so when you get up to leave you'll be reminded to unplug it.

sounds painful
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: ironman31 on Wed, 27 October 2010, 17:55:23: Lol she said she would make one if I obtained the keys.... multicolored
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Stone on Mon, 16 May 2011, 09:21:37: Quote from: Stone;221687
I've been meaning to replace my crappy home iron for ages as I've just been using the Wellers at work - so I'll have a serious look at those in the OP. Thanks!

Finally got my workspace set up - a recalcitrant pin header (one pin in a huge ground plane) foiled my 18W Antex so I've bitten the bullet and gone for the CSI906 (http://www.circuitspecialists.eu/esd-safe-smd-soldering-rework-station-csi-906-p-20.html). The hot-air rework + decent iron combination seems like a total winner - it'll make SMD rework a lot easier! I might even swap over to SMDs for prototyping, single-sided PCBs are pretty cheap...

Stone
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: aegrotatio on Sat, 18 June 2011, 21:11:04: What's the word on RoHS-compatible soldering stations today?
My old reliable and decidently cloned generic TechAmerica kicked the bucket recently and it occurs to me I should have something that can melt silver solder.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: thp777 on Thu, 07 July 2011, 08:32:57: i recieved a gordak 952 hot air rework and soldering station as payment for modding an xbox controller a few months ago. it is quite nice. digital display for the hot air and one for the iron. really nice not having to wait for iron to heat up anymore. before i got it i was using a black and decker craft iron to do all my intricate soldering it was horrible but i was soldering 30awg to pcb traces with it like a pro.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: HaveANiceDay on Thu, 07 July 2011, 09:14:16: I've never used lead-free solder. Any big differences?
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: The Solutor on Thu, 07 July 2011, 09:25:46: Quote from: HaveANiceDay;375351
I've never used lead-free solder. Any big differences?

It's just crap

Xbox 360 users are well aware about this, at least the end effects (33% of dead units due to bad soldering).
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: HaveANiceDay on Thu, 07 July 2011, 09:32:03: Quote from: The Solutor;375355
It's just crap

Xbox 360 users are well aware about this, at least the end effects (33% of dead units due to bad soldering).

I'm aware that lead-free solder requires higher temperatures (which my hakko fm202 can surely provide). Maybe they used inadequate soldering irons or had bad technique.

I'm more interested in the difference between lead-based and lead-free. Like temperature difference, usability, anything to watch out for.
Also, is it a problem to use lead and lead-free solder with the same tip?
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: The Solutor on Thu, 07 July 2011, 09:40:59: Quote
Maybe they used inadequate soldering irons or had bad technique.

Obviously even this matters, when one is used for decades with something is hard to get used to something new.

Btw, temp or not, the final effect is more like the cheap 50/50 or 40/60 alloys used by plumbers than the good 60/40 o 63/37 used by electronics.

Obviously i think that with time, increased knowledge, and newer alloys things can only go better.

But ATM i have 3 or 4KG of old style tin, and I don't mind to experiment further.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: daerid on Thu, 07 July 2011, 09:48:49: Just wanted to chime in that I bought the station mentioned by the OP, and I must say it's pretty awesome for the price. The tip keeps its tin really well and it heats up quickly.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: alaricljs on Thu, 07 July 2011, 09:59:59: You can use the same tip, make sure you clean it nicely between changes.

The biggest difference between the solders is that very few lead-free solders are eutectic. This means that there is a temperature range where some of it is solid and some of it isn't. Makes for interesting problems if your parts shift during the cooling transition. Another issue is how the lead-free solder flows, capillary action is hindered by this so you have to get used to the behaviors of the particular solder you are using before doing anything important. This is why sometimes lead-free soldering also benefits from a more liberal use of flux.

Hope that helps.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: HaveANiceDay on Thu, 07 July 2011, 12:01:05: Thanks for the answers Solutor and alaricljs.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: 8_INCH_FLOPPY on Sun, 17 July 2011, 23:21:30: Lead-free solder is a joke. It has long-term reliability problems(which is why it is not used by the military or medical industry), and it is actually more dangerous to use, since the high melting temperature results in more toxic chemicals being vaporized. Then there's the issue of it wearing out soldering iron tips faster and being a pain to use.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: RickyJ on Mon, 18 July 2011, 21:15:29: Plays into planned obsolescence, since the device is junk after a few years (depending on how fine the pitches are). So instead of a device being useable for 10+ years, it's toast after 3. It keeps me busy in the auto industry though, I repair ECU's/instruments/controllers/etc constantly.

On the topic of chemicals, flux for lead-free processes is way more toxic than good ol' rosin (tree sap based) flux for leaded soldering. You can get water-based flux, but it must be cleaned after useage or it will absorb moisture and cause shorts.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Thu, 21 July 2011, 16:59:26: Quote from: daerid;375376
Just wanted to chime in that I bought the station mentioned by the OP, and I must say it's pretty awesome for the price. The tip keeps its tin really well and it heats up quickly.

Which one did you get, the analog?

My decisions:
--FX-888 (no auto shut-off) 70W starting at $90
--Weller WES51 (auto shut-off) 50W starting at $85
--CSI Station 1A (no auto shut-off) $30 40W-or-CSI BK2000 (auto shut off) $40 35W. Both use Hakko tips, allegedly Hakko models with no quality drop. Price savings is notable.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: N8N on Thu, 21 July 2011, 18:13:26: Anyone have one of these and also an old Weller station with the temp control in the tips? I think it's a WTCP? I have two of the old Wellers and have found them quite satifactory, but if this is a significant step up in convenience/usability to this new thing, the price is inexpensive enough that if it's worth it I'd love to give it a try. (and also not have to buy new tips to change temp setting...)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: The Solutor on Thu, 21 July 2011, 18:34:42: Quote from: N8N;384972
Anyone have one of these and also an old Weller station with the temp control in the tips? I think it's a WTCP? I have two of the old Wellers and have found them quite satifactory, but if this is a significant step up in convenience/usability to this new thing, the price is inexpensive enough that if it's worth it I'd love to give it a try. (and also not have to buy new tips to change temp setting...)

Do you mean the magnastat solder powered at 24V ?

I used it as my daily driver for more than a decade, i bought a JBC desoldering station, but never used it to solder, always magnastat in the laboratory, or a butane powered Portasol in the field.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: N8N on Thu, 21 July 2011, 18:44:49: Quote from: The Solutor;384984
Do you mean the magnastat solder powered at 24V ?

I used it as my daily driver for more than a decade, i bought a JBC desoldering station, but never used it to solder, always magnastat in the laboratory, or a butane powered Portasol in the field.

Yup, TC202 power supply w/ TC201 pencil. Got two of 'em salvaged from previous employer. no idea of age, but they've been working for me so far. The concept of being able to change temp just by twiddling a knob and having tip selection only dictated by shape is appealing though. Is there a decent desoldering attachment for the unit in the OP? I was actually just a few days ago considering buying a desoldering attachment for my weller on eBay in preparation for a "real keyboard project" (I think I'm pretty set on doing a Filco w/ clears. Or maybe ergo clears. Haven't tried the ergos yet though, need to get more clear stems to hook that up - I like my clears board too much as a daily driver to take it offline for an experiment, and I got all sorts of disapproving looks when I tried to use a Model M at work.)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: The Solutor on Thu, 21 July 2011, 18:59:36: Not sure about the exact model but I haven't bought the Weller power supply... i provided a 24V AC line to my laboratory, connected to 5 or 6 wall sockets (i used your 110V standard ones to avoid accidental connections on the 230V line) so I killed two birds with one stone, a plain transformer is way less expensive than a Weller one and I had the solder handy in all the laboratory w/o the needs of carry around the transformer...
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: sordna on Fri, 22 July 2011, 02:46:36: Quote from: input nirvana;384926
Which one did you get, the analog?

My decisions:
--FX-888 (no auto shut-off) 70W starting at $90
--Weller WES51 (auto shut-off) 50W starting at $85
--CSI Station 1A (no auto shut-off) $30 40W-or-CSI BK2000 (auto shut off) $40 35W. Both use Hakko tips, allegedly Hakko models with no quality drop. Price savings is notable.

I have the Weller WES51, although I was thinking of the WLC100 first, which allows for the iron to be plugged in directly to the mains without the transformer if you so wish! I once did a little soldering replacing a TRIAC on a dimmer of a lamp mounted high in the wall with a cheapo iron (no station) and extension cord. It would be much harder to do that with a soldering station. Anyway, I wanted something better though, so I eventually got the WES51.

Wow, there's a temp-controlled soldering station for just $18, unbeliavable:
http://www.amazon.com/Stahl-Tools-Variable-Temperature-Soldering/dp/B0029N70WM
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Fri, 22 July 2011, 11:40:04: It's also available with free shipping directly from their website ($12) if you buy $100:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=374-100

(http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=374-100)I'll hold out till it's under $10 :)

I bet it might be the same unit as the Weller WLC100...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]21888[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]21889[/ATTACH]
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: TexasFlood on Thu, 28 July 2011, 07:58:10: FYI, just saw there is a Weller rebate (http://www.cooperhandtools.com/weller/Weller National rebate 2011.pdf) that covers models WSA350, 170M, WES51, WESD51 and WLC100. The Weller WES51 (http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WES51-Analog-Soldering-Station/dp/B000BRC2XU) qualifies and is currently $83.55 at Amazon with free shipping.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: TexasFlood on Thu, 28 July 2011, 08:01:21: FYI, just saw there is a Weller rebate (http://www.cooperhandtools.com/weller/Weller National rebate 2011.pdf) that covers models WSA350, 170M, WES51, WESD51 and WLC100. The Weller WES51 (http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WES51-Analog-Soldering-Station/dp/B000BRC2XU) qualifies and is currently $83.55 at Amazon with free shipping.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: sordna on Thu, 28 July 2011, 09:55:25: Thank you, I had no idea about the rebate !!
The rebate is for purchases between April 18, 2011 and July 31, 2011.
Looks like, I'll get $20 back for my WES51, I bought it after April 18 :-)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Thu, 28 July 2011, 12:13:35: At a total cost of about $65 for a Weller WES51, it makes it hard to consider a cheaper unit, or an upgraded unit, just looking from a dollar value perspective.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Thu, 28 July 2011, 16:24:56: A Hakko FX-951 70w for $120 lightly used just popped on my radar locally.

http://www.hakkousa.com/detail.asp?CID=49&PID=4482&Page=1
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: N8N on Thu, 28 July 2011, 17:35:48: OK, so (warning, off topic) it looks like the sale of my house is going through tomorrow (long story.)

So. Before I sock away the proceeds in preparation to buy another pad, I was thinking of buying myself two things - first, a good TV, since I've been using my 25" monitor and my roommate thinks that that is unacceptable. Second, a good keyboard for work so I can class up my cube a little.

I've narrowed it down to a Filco or a WASD (now that that's on the table) but the first thing I will do to it is mod it to clears before even taking it to the orifice.

Given that I have a Weller WTCP, what should I buy? I have no desoldering tools. Should I go with a newer Weller or Hakko, or just try to find a desoldering attachment for the WTCP? (or would a separate solder sucker really be the way to go, and if so, which one would you guys recommend? I really don't solder electronics nor hang out with people that do; most of my experience is with automotive repairs. Yes, I've reworked quite a few vintage wiring harnesses.)

thanks!
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: sordna on Thu, 28 July 2011, 17:42:33: First of all, I would rater give a small, local company some business. For a full size metal plate keyboard I would buy the WASD. Maybe he can sell you a keyboard with the switches separately, so you won't need to desolder anything!
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Thu, 28 July 2011, 22:00:07: First wait for my review tomorrow. I'll pretty much tell you what to do :)
I already spoke with him about unassembled parts, I don't think it's a problem, except for a warranty issue (there won't be any).

As for soldering, I don't like hot air stations, takes too long and is too hard on the board I think. So then it's either one of those nifty, expensive solder-sucker irons with vacuum (hassle) or a hand-held $10 sucker or wick. Wick doesn't seem to work well with lead-free solder (for me).
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: alaricljs on Thu, 28 July 2011, 22:05:42: If wick is not working well add more flux. Also, perhaps that particular solder didn't like your particular flux.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Thu, 28 July 2011, 22:32:30: Thanks for the info!

Actually I was de-soldering a couple usb ports from a new laptop, I'm sure it was lead-free, didn't seem to flow as well as any other leaded solder I've used. Is that a lead-free characteristic...poor flow? So I'll brush flux on it next time.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: alaricljs on Thu, 28 July 2011, 22:34:35: Yes, that is a primary characteristic of lead-free. Also crank the heat if it seems to flow in bits and pieces. It's not eutectic, so some of it is liquid and some of it's not quite liquid yet.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Thu, 28 July 2011, 22:49:14: That sounds more or less like what was happening, I could see the solder get shiny and melt, but only a tiny fraction would wick. Or I was not able to pull the item off the trace even though the solder appeared liquid.

Frustrating.
Very frustrating when you don't understand why something that always worked well, suddenly doesn't work at all :)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: N8N on Fri, 29 July 2011, 09:29:53: so what "hand held $10 sucker" works well? I don't have one at all now.

does the above post mean that I should invest in some flux? I assume that I need flux for electronics and can't use the flux that I use for copper plumbing?

thanks
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Fri, 29 July 2011, 09:40:55: I've only used wick.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: alaricljs on Fri, 29 July 2011, 09:42:33: Plumbers flux is aggressive enough to eat the copper traces off a board if you're not careful in cleaning up. There are a number of choices in electronic fluxes, rosin is still the best for leaded solder. For any SMT soldering you'll want a no-clean flux since it's a little hard to clean underneath a chip.

I don't even recall where I got my solder sucker, alu body in blue anodize. It works just fine. As long as you find a metal bodied sucker I doubt it could be all that bad.

edit: This (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=370-030&utm_source=googleps) looks good.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: RickyJ on Sat, 30 July 2011, 12:44:29: ^ That's the one I used for years, was never really thaaat impressed with it but it got the job done for the most part. A couple years ago I got this one (http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=K412-ND) and never looked back!

Temperature is key for soldering, but desoldering especially. If your tip is too cool, you'll take too long and possibly cook the part (they are rated for a certain soldering temperature for usually 10 seconds max). Too hot and you could damage the part as well. There's a happy medium with the heat transfer where you can melt the solder without overheating the component, and it just takes practice to figure it out. For desoldering small/medium components with leaded solder, I find that 600F on my WES51 works well without damaging traces. Small/medium parts with lead-free solder I bump it to 650F. Larger components like relays I use 700-750F depending on how much of a heatsink the part is acting like, but you really have to be careful about not damaging the traces of the PCB.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Sat, 30 July 2011, 16:01:13: RickyJ: Very helpful for me, thank you :)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: N8N on Sat, 30 July 2011, 16:20:22: yes, thank you, I am planning on ordering a new keyboard as well as tools next week and it's always good to get feedback from those more experienced rather than having to go through all the trial and error myself. I figured that someone here would have lots of experience with soldering on PCB's somehow :)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Sat, 30 July 2011, 22:16:42: What size/style tips are better for desoldering/soldering cherry switches and 24AWG wire?

I just got a Hakko FX-951 and need to decide on what extras to get.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: RickyJ on Sun, 31 July 2011, 02:09:41: I've got plenty of tips for my Weller, but I find that for 99% of what I do I use a fine screwdriver style tip (0.031"/0.79mm wide; Weller ETH for those with WES/WESD51's). For ultra-fine surface mount chips/etc I've got sharp pointed tips, but without a flat spot they don't hold solder worth a damn. For limited access soldering I've got long skinny tips, but there's not enough mass in the tip to keep the temperature steady if the part I'm heating up is large (sucks the heat right out of it). Wider screwdriver tips have their uses, but you'll be way better off spending a few bucks on a finer tip that you'll use for just about everything.

For tip cleaning I've always just used the sponge that came with my Weller (on 2nd sponge now), but I've heard that the brass wool you can buy is better. When my tip gets too cruddy for the sponge to clean, I gently scrape it off with my exacto knife.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Sun, 31 July 2011, 20:54:53: FYI:

I noticed the solder pump RickyJ linked: Digikey DP-100, may be a re-branded industry standard "Edsyn Soldapullt DS-017" (usually about $25-$30) or a cheaper copy. It's made without the the Soldapullt name and sold for less than $15, name is Hon Bao HB-017. An ebay seller has them for $13.25 free shipping, and jameco.com is $8.95 plus shipping ($7 in-state and tax) Yikes!.

I already got a new Soldapullt on sale for $20 free shipping through ebay (really good price), I guess I didn't want to save another $6 and take any kind of chance.

Thanks for the tip advice!

The brass wool is flux impregnated, one reason it works so well.

THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: RickyJ on Mon, 01 August 2011, 02:58:44: Good to know! I knew I couldn't be the only one using that pump, it's all-around a mirrrrrrion times better than the cheapo Radio Shack/etc blue aluminum crap. BTW the suction tips for those DP-100/Soldapult/etc withstand some pretty serious heat (750F so far). The 90 degree twist to open for emptying is very nice, and the plunger locks down so I can fit it easily in my mobile kit bag!
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Mon, 01 August 2011, 11:26:26: What particular tools are you buying for keyboard mods?
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: TexasFlood on Mon, 01 August 2011, 12:13:55: Quote from: sordna;388724
Thank you, I had no idea about the rebate !!
The rebate is for purchases between April 18, 2011 and July 31, 2011.
Looks like, I'll get $20 back for my WES51, I bought it after April 18 :-)

Someone asked to borrow my old WTCP a while back so using that as an excuse to update rather than go fight to get it back, :wink:, so clicked buy on a WES51 yesterday on Amazon hopefully in time to qualify for the rebate. I've been told the WTCP really belongs in a museum anyway, hah.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Mon, 01 August 2011, 12:56:57: Possession is 9/10ths of the law.

Unless someone deals with me. I'll die for principle.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: TexasFlood on Mon, 01 August 2011, 16:43:23: Thanks for the Soldapullt info, think I have one in my toolbox. Gotta go dig around & check. I have another but it's cr_p and I should probably throw it out. Might get a spare for that price.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: TexasFlood on Mon, 01 August 2011, 17:02:02: Thanks for the Soldapullt info, think I have one in my toolbox. Gotta go dig around & check. I have another but it's cr_p and I should probably throw it out. Might get a spare for that price.

I found this TSL017 on ebay for $13.25 shipped free from msd-inc, assume that's the one you meant.

(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Desoldering-Solder-Pump-Technicians-bench-tool-TSL017-/20/!BUe(Tow!mk~$(KGrHgoH-DUEjlLlzqhLBKNrk7k8v!~~_35.JPG)

and the HB-017 at jameco.com for $8.95 (qty 1) as you said but looks like they have minimum $7 shipping charge so ebay might be a better deal.
(https://www.jameco.com/Jameco/Products/ProdImag/1942139.jpg)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Mon, 01 August 2011, 17:17:25: $13.25 free shipping (tax in CA) Hon Bao HB-017
[ATTACH=CONFIG]22985[/ATTACH]
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350461008462&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123#ht_500wt_1180
(http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350461008462&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123#ht_500wt_1180)
Will accept $20.00 'Make Offer' free shipping (there may be tax in NE?) Edsyn Soldapullt DS-017
[ATTACH=CONFIG]22986[/ATTACH]
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180644821086&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_3654wt_1328

(http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180644821086&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_3654wt_1328)There is a chance the $13.25 unit may not be as tough as the Soldapullt. I spoke to someone that has it, he said it's high quality compared to most, but he doesn't have a Soldapullt to compare side-by-side. Soldapullt is allegedly 'Made in USA', but we know what that means.

The ebay listing near the bottom shows a diagram of the Soldapullt. Since they look identical in appearance, I can't imagine too much of a difference, it's a pretty simple device. If you're a professional or do a lot of soldering, the Soldapullt is the way to go for only $20. If you do a little less soldering, you may want to save $5-6.

EDIT----UH-OH---

http://www.mainelectronics.com/soldersuck.htm

(http://www.mainelectronics.com/soldersuck.htm)I guess it's the same story, you get what you pay for. No hidden steals here. $20 cash for the Soldapullt is very decent though. I'll go edit the other post a bit.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Mon, 01 August 2011, 17:34:53: All that really matters is that it matches my new Hakko FX-951:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]22987[/ATTACH]

And, I graduated Cal, so it's my school colors. Go BEARS!
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: N8N on Sat, 06 August 2011, 10:59:10: After going back and forth between the Hakko and the Weller, I bought a Weller WES51 which just showed up today. Now I'm going to need to get some additional tips for it, and also decide whether I have the cojones to rip up my new keyboard or not :)

Dumb questions.

1) in the box was a thing that looked like a plastic pen barrel with a shirt pocket clip on it, and a weak magnet shoved in the end. What do you use that for? Changing tips while hot? (only thing I can think of)
2) what temp setting would you use as a starting point for desoldering MX's from the PCB?
3) does anyone sell an actual assortment of the most commonly used tips for this soldering pencil, or do I need to pick them out myself and order individually?

thanks
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Sat, 06 August 2011, 14:13:00: Congrats!
1- dunno
2- the iron cools as soon as you touch it to cooler objects. You need about 350 min to melt, so you should be at 550 at least if you're slow, hotter if you're faster.
3- get advice here and buy tips yourself

Confirm everything I've said here.

Some cool peeps linked me this, so I'm passing it on:
http://www.youtube.com/user/CuriousInventor#p/u/40/Vh9pWu6K6tc
(http://www.youtube.com/user/CuriousInventor#p/u/40/Vh9pWu6K6tc)
There are several videos, watch them.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: RickyJ on Sat, 06 August 2011, 18:45:39: Quote from: N8N;394157
After going back and forth between the Hakko and the Weller, I bought a Weller WES51 which just showed up today. Now I'm going to need to get some additional tips for it, and also decide whether I have the cojones to rip up my new keyboard or not :)

Dumb questions.

1) in the box was a thing that looked like a plastic pen barrel with a shirt pocket clip on it, and a weak magnet shoved in the end. What do you use that for? Changing tips while hot? (only thing I can think of)
2) what temp setting would you use as a starting point for desoldering MX's from the PCB?
3) does anyone sell an actual assortment of the most commonly used tips for this soldering pencil, or do I need to pick them out myself and order individually?

thanks

1) Locks the temperature of the controller so people don't mess with it. LED will turn red while in this mode.
2) Since your board should have lead-free solder on it, use 650F.
3) My default tip for 99% of my work is ETH. ETR for "busy" PCB's where I have to get around components. I've got other tips for surface mount stuff, but I won't worry you with those at this point in time.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: The Solutor on Sat, 06 August 2011, 21:13:47: Quote from: RickyJ;394361

2) Since your board should have lead-free solder on it, use 650F.

340C is barely enough for lead based solder, BTW given that adding fresh lead based alloy before desoldering is almost mandatory, that temp is good
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: litster on Sat, 06 August 2011, 23:21:52: I use a 45w desoldering iron from Radio Shack (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062731). It has worked quite well. But you need to replace the tip (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062732&clickid=prod_cs) once it is burned up. The first tip lasted 2 switch desoldering jobs, one keyboard with 2 solder points each switch, 1 with 4 solder points each switch.

(http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2160644t98.jpg)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Sat, 06 August 2011, 23:33:58: You hold that thing with 2 hands?
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: litster on Sat, 06 August 2011, 23:45:53: Yes, one hand on the iron, one hand on the red pump. So aiming solder joints is pretty steady and accurate. and I only need one aim per solder joint, instead of one aim with the iron to heat up the joint and one aim with the pump. It is not a piece of cake though. it gets pretty tiresome after200+ solder joints when desoldering switches from a board. Plate mounted switches have 2 joints per switch, PCB mount has 4 joints per switch. This desoldering iron works best if you have a lot of joints to desolder at the same time. If you are just desoldering a joint once in a while before of mistakes, a desoldering pump would be easier so you don't have plug in 2 irons.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: RickyJ on Sun, 07 August 2011, 00:32:50: Quote from: The Solutor;394418
340C is barely enough for lead based solder, BTW given that adding fresh lead based alloy before desoldering is almost mandatory, that temp is good

I have zero problems desoldering SMT and smaller through-hole components on lead-free process with 650F on my WES51, without adding 63/37. High-current items with larger leads and bodies I add a touch of 63/37 so I can clear the through-hole. If it's an older PCB using older style ground plane pads, then I have to bump the temperature and add 63/37 for that. Maybe I'm just lucky?
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Wed, 10 August 2011, 20:26:14: I know Ripster uses solid sal ammoniac for his iron. Is 1/4 lb. block enough...size wise?

Does anyone use those little pucks of tip tin? The tips for my soldering iron normally start at $10 so I want to be extra careful with them.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: The Solutor on Wed, 10 August 2011, 20:28:10: I always used the usual wet sponge to clean the tip and I haven't had a single problem.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Wed, 10 August 2011, 20:37:14: I'm thinking of any oxidation that may form that solder/flux may not remove. I know you can dip the tip in flux and wipe, but as I understand it, that's harder on the tip. I have a brass-coil-shavings impregnated with flux tip wiper/cleaner that came with my Hakko. I just wanted to know if there is anything I can do (reasonably) to keep the tips in better shape. After destroying the connections on the laptop mainboard I'm sensitive to the issue.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: The Solutor on Wed, 10 August 2011, 20:47:40: Quote
I have a brass-coil-shavings impregnated with flux tip wiper/cleaner that came with my Hakko.

I don't trust a lot those hard ways, a wet sponge wil remove anything w/o touching the tip coating, and is cheap.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: alaricljs on Wed, 10 August 2011, 20:48:04: I had never heard of any procedure other than wet sponge and solder/w flux to re-tin before this forum. My father was an EE and assembled his own Altair 80 system (meaning soldering the chips and all) and he and I did some Heath Kits together. I'm thinking tip issues are only prevalent if you are overdoing the heat (usually for speed).
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Wed, 10 August 2011, 21:21:42: HEATH KITS! I haven't heard that in forever! Good times. lol

Now that I have a selectable temp. solder station I can keep the temp. lower I guess than the 30 watt RS iron. Maybe between solder with flux and the brass shavings tip cleaner everything will be fine. Thought I'd see what others were doing. You guys using a sponge, do you use distilled water?
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: TexasFlood on Wed, 10 August 2011, 21:28:53: Heath kits and radio shack pencil irons, takes me back.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: The Solutor on Wed, 10 August 2011, 22:13:57: Quote from: input nirvana;396760
HEATH KITS! You guys using a sponge, do you use distilled water?

I think that the GH subscription has as a side effect the attitude to inflate pointless details :happy:

No, just plain water, and a sponge (or sponge cloth) stolen to mom or auntie
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Wed, 10 August 2011, 22:42:49: Quote from: ripster;396782
I use Sal Ammoniac.
(Attachment) 23841[/ATTACH]

Because I'm THAT lazy.

Plus, you can turn them into bombs if you're bored.

Does it work out just like in the video you posted? Do you think it's any better, or is it really just a convenience issue?
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: RC-1140 on Sun, 14 August 2011, 11:06:55: Here in Germany when buying a soldering iron you have to choose between Weller and ERSA, these are the two big companies here. Just recently I bought a ERSA Multitip C15 (http://www.ersa.com/art-0910bd-358-1889.html), and I'm quite happy with it. I'm not soldering much, and I clean it with a wet sponge, using simple water. Compared to the cheap 15€ Soldering station I had before it feels like heaven! I mean, come on, we bought 10 of these cheap stations for school, and 3 of them blew up in a cloud of smoke at first use. I like my Ersa.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Sun, 14 August 2011, 13:11:35: Quote from: RC-1140;398741
I mean, come on, we bought 10 of these cheap stations for school, and 3 of them blew up in a cloud of smoke at first use. I like my Ersa.

LOL

Quality counts. Women, cars, soldering irons.

Now that I have acquired so much soldering stuff the last few weeks, I need a tool case to pack it all in. Somehow a cardboard box just doesn't do it justice.

Yikes, tool cases are expensive!
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: xbb on Mon, 15 August 2011, 09:34:21: Is this any good? http://www.aoyue.com/en/ArticleShow.asp?ArticleID=337 (http://www.aoyue.com/en/ArticleShow.asp?ArticleID=337)
I can find the Hakko here in Italy but it costs way too much (570 USD... crazy eh?)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Mon, 15 August 2011, 11:17:49: $570 USD for what model? Hakko has units between $90-$600 USD that I know of. Hey, if it's too much I'll buy one here and ship it to you if that helps. :)

Aoyue are called Hakko 'knock offs', I do not have the experience to offer any advice, someone else will need to chime in.

It depends on the type and quantity of soldering you are doing. If you are doing very little, occasional, easy items, you can save money and get a good soldering pencil. I prefer the concept of being able to control the temperature though, plus, I had a bad soldering project, so I went all out on the Hakko.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: The Solutor on Mon, 15 August 2011, 21:13:25: Quote from: xbb;399212
I can find the Hakko here in Italy but it costs way too much (570 USD... crazy eh?)

Is plenty of cheap desoldering station good enough to desolder some keyboards...

http://cgi.ebay.it/STAZIONE-dissaldante-dissaldatore-digitale-/310328815032?pt=Saldatori_e_Tester&hash=item484109edb8

http://cgi.ebay.it/Stazione-saldante-dissaldante-Lukey-902-/290594757456?pt=Saldatori_e_Tester&hash=item43a8cc1b50

If you want something better w/o spending an huge amount of money on weller stations look to the JBC products, unlike Hakko they are well known in Italy, and accessories and spare parts are available everywhere.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: xbb on Mon, 15 August 2011, 23:11:14: I looked for JBC but they are way more expensive :(
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: The Solutor on Tue, 16 August 2011, 00:14:39: Quote from: xbb;399651
I looked for JBC but they are way more expensive :(

Yeah, I've just checked looks like the have moved in to an higher level of products, lately.

Most of their relatively cheap products aren't sold anymore.

Btw keep in mint that mechanical keyboards are basically products from a past era, and a pas tera desoldering station is needed.

Most of the newer, high end, soldering/and desoldering stations are aimed to the nowadays electronics, with supertiny SMD components, little and lead free solder involved and so on.

Unless you mind to replace controller chips on actual keyboards, an used or a cheap soldering station is more than enough i saw some used JBC station sold for 100€ or so...
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Tue, 16 August 2011, 01:17:11: I was feeling a little foolish for my Hakko over-purchase a couple weeks ago, but then I used it today for the first time...WOW!!! From cold to 700 F in 5 seconds! Small, thin, light and easy ergonomic handle that is the size of a pencil with a foam rubber grip. Not hot in hand. It was like night and day compared to the soldering pencil I was using. The flux-impregnated brass shaving tip cleaner instead of a sponge was excellent. I'll never use a sponge again.

I don't feel foolish anymore. I can't wait to solder something else!

Make sure you buy a little more than you need, not a little less.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: litster on Tue, 16 August 2011, 01:22:19: Which Hakko model did you get?
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: iMav on Tue, 16 August 2011, 01:27:11: Quote from: litster;399706
Which Hakko model did you get?
Hakko FX-951
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: The Solutor on Tue, 16 August 2011, 01:41:41: Quote from: input nirvana;399702
I was feeling a little foolish for my Hakko over-purchase a couple weeks ago, but then I used it today for the first time...WOW!!! From cold to 700 F in 5 seconds!

Obviously a good soldering station is an huge step from a basic soldering iron, if one is an electronic hobbyist an expensive one is more than justified but if one has planing just one or two keyboards to mod, spending 500$ or more is completely unjustified, that's what I'm saying.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Tue, 16 August 2011, 02:01:53: Oh yes, of course. One or two keyboards don't justify that type of expense no matter what planet you're from. I'm so surprised at the ease with which the work I did today turned out. I couldn't imagine people doing it all day when I used the previous iron, but now, I could have gone for hours without a second thought. It was enjoyable. I never thought it could be enjoyable.

I want to thank a bunch of you guys for answering my questions, some in thread, some in PM, but the feedback, suggestions, stories of success and failure...really helped me do the right thing the first time, not screw around with a bunch of false starts.

Soldering irons= Quality heat. Tips. Ergonomic. TIN THE TIP CONSTANTLY.

I'm getting prepared for the Geekhack Kustom Keyboard Kontroller (GKKK) we're going to build :)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: xbb on Tue, 16 August 2011, 13:39:46: I have already a good soldering station from JBC (AD2200 (http://www.jbctools.com/english/discontinued_product/ad2200.php)) but it's not the new modular series so I can't just buy a new desoldering module.
I just wanted a desoldering station to do some fast desoldering. I'm almost sure I'll end up buying this: SSD15 (http://www.marcucci.it/english/prodotti/schede/scheda.asp?ID=13735)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: The Solutor on Tue, 16 August 2011, 15:55:40: Yes it's the one I linked before

I'm sure it will be more than worth the 70 euro it cost.

And if it will last just six months or ten keyboards no one will cry
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Wed, 17 August 2011, 09:47:24: A desoldering station is primarily used for a large quantity, or for better results, or for---?
In comparison to a solder sucker.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: The Solutor on Wed, 17 August 2011, 09:58:56: Quote
A desoldering station is primarily used for a large quantity, or for better results, or for---?
In comparison to a solder sucker.

Well surely are meant for large or repetitive desoldering and usually also for better result. Although sometime the manual sucker is more effective on specific soldering points, as it gives a peak depression that hardly a soldering station can provide.

There were also some middle ways.

I had a Philips desolder that was manually controlled like a cheap sucker, but electrically heated like a professional desoldering iron

Like this http://cgi.ebay.it/DISSALDATORE-40W-230V-UZ4-10-13-VAC-3000-/250859774741?clk_rvr_id=256679075850
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Wed, 17 August 2011, 17:55:27: So I'm looking and thinking a powered/heating/sucking desoldering unit is probably easier to use? I'm sure faster as well. They seem awfully expensive.

The unit you linked seems like a happy medium?
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: The Solutor on Wed, 17 August 2011, 19:04:50: Quote from: input nirvana;400631

The unit you linked seems like a happy medium?

Surely is better than a standard sucker, i don't know the specific unit I linked but looks like Philips doesn't made soldering equipments anymore they were very good and not expensive.

I had also a standard philips sucker was way better than the ones i find nowadays.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: xbb on Thu, 18 August 2011, 17:14:28: Quote from: The Solutor;400670
Surely is better than a standard sucker, i don't know the specific unit I linked but looks like Philips doesn't made soldering equipments anymore they were very good and not expensive.

I had also a standard philips sucker was way better than the ones i find nowadays.

So I bought one of those chinese stations, they do work good but they become clogged very fast and it's not so easy to clean them.
There is a spring inside with a smaller end which fills with solder and to remove it the only way is to melt it! Then it becomes usable again...
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Parak on Thu, 18 August 2011, 19:56:35: Hakko 808 is the best in breed for desoldering. I got one recently on a great deal, and it's made out of awesome and epic.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Thu, 18 August 2011, 20:22:03: Awesome and epic? Is there anything better than that, or is awesome and epic the end of the race?
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Parak on Thu, 18 August 2011, 21:00:50: Quote from: input nirvana;401298
Awesome and epic? Is there anything better than that, or is awesome and epic the end of the race?

Conceivably, something could be legendary win, but it doesn't exist to my knowledge.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: oddsratio on Thu, 18 August 2011, 21:14:07: So I just bought a used Hakko, which should be coming in next week. It needs a new tip though, so I'm wondering what size you're using for swapping switches; this iron takes 900L tips for those that have a similar model.

For those using other brands, I have a choice between either 2mm or .5mm (both conical), so I'm not sure which is the right fit for the work area.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Thu, 18 August 2011, 21:17:29: Oooooh! Legendary Win!

Here, I'll help you with that....

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=24635&d=1313720237)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Fri, 19 August 2011, 13:35:02: I see the Hakko 808 available for $160. Awesome and epic just got a little more affordable.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: 500_pts on Fri, 19 August 2011, 13:56:04: http://www.jbctools.com/stations/stations/desoldering-rework/234-desoldering-rework/424-rmst-rmvt-rework-station

Trust me. Use this. Infinitely awesome and epic.

I use them at work. I have no idea what it costs, and i would probably cry if i did
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Parak on Fri, 19 August 2011, 14:33:48: Quote from: 500_pts;401763
I have no idea what it costs, and i would probably cry if i did

Pfft, it's only 4 grand. I'd go for the http://www.howardelectronics.com/jbc/am7000smd.html instead.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 19 August 2011, 15:07:51: Quote from: 500_pts;401763
I have no idea what it costs, and i would probably cry if i did

Very likely...

Edit: overlooked the link posted by Parak , I guessed 4500$ but look like I was too optimist...
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Fri, 19 August 2011, 21:05:52: Wow, that is major equipment!

I didn't fully realize until now, that much of the work I'm embarking on requires a lot of desoldering. Almost as much as soldering. I won't mind the solder sucker for 20-30 connections, but if there's a better way....

Just saw a couple utube videos of the Hakko 808. That. Is. Slick.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: N8N on Sat, 20 August 2011, 20:46:34: So I'm into my Filco which I really want to change to clears... got a Soldapullt and also a smaller knockoff.... fire up soldering station, meld solder, apply desoldering tool, and... nothing. Just doesn't suck up any solder at all.

I guess I just need to find someone that carries desoldering braid? or is there something I'm missing? I have to desolder at least 208 points to get the PCB off if I'm understanding this correctly and I'm not off to an auspicious start.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Sat, 20 August 2011, 21:13:39: The pump has to be RIGHT ON the solder, like right there the thickness of a piece of paper away from the iron....it won't suck solder from a 1/4" away. Don't worry too much about burning the tip, it's teflon or something like that. And try to position the pump so it will suck up solder, not air. Try to have it OVER the solder almost upright, so it sucks the solder, not sideways so it can suck air instead. Check a youtube video.

You may need to put some flux on it, or even a well-tinned tip with a little extra solder to help get the solder-blob more "juicy".
Having wick is also a good idea.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: N8N on Sat, 20 August 2011, 22:11:42: Thanks... I've done tons of soldering before but mostly in an automotive repair type scenario. Never desoldered before, but if you never try, you never learn, right? I think it's working now... and yes, I've found that I practically have to retin the tip every terminal or two otherwise that darn RoHS solder just won't even melt. And I'm not sure if I'm getting all the stuff out because I don't want to pry on the board too hard, and this is kind of tedious... I'm only halfway through desoldering all the switches. But hopefully the results will be worth it! Either that, or I'll have a pile of really expensive nonfunctional parts when I'm done :/
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Sat, 20 August 2011, 22:28:49: I learned recently the lead-free needs to be a good 50 degrees F hotter than the leaded, and it is harder to work with. I don't know if you saw the thread where Bluecar has been helping me, but I almost destroyed a laptop mainboard from desoldering 2 broken usb ports. The laptop had lead-free, and I've never worked with it before. Plus, I'm not a master-solderer----yet.

Automotive is much easier than electronics in my opinion. Appropriate tip size is fairly crucial too, much more than people mention. When I remove switches, almost any tip seems to work, I think that type of work is more forgiving. Re-tin and flux baby, re-tin and flux!!!
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: N8N on Sun, 21 August 2011, 13:35:17: I must be doing something wrong. I just stopped about halfway through and tested the board and everything is functional.

FWIW I did hork up a couple of the areas of the PCB as the little "sleeves" that go through under the pads came out with a few switches. I am assuming that this is only a 1-layer board though, but even so. I am trying to make sure that I get lost of solder in there. No pads lifted (knock on wood) and like I said, didn't have to rework anything yet. I might even get this done today which would be cool. (I decided to go w/ straight clears and a grey space bar in the Filco. I think it'll be a nice typing board. I decided to start with the Filco because the switches in that one felt decidedly frictiony compared to the Noppoo - and sure enough, for whatever reason I didn't see any lube on the sliders.)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Sun, 21 August 2011, 13:58:58: Clarfy:

You did something wrong and the board is functional??? I'll try reading that a couple more times maybe....

Pulling out a sleeve is unfortunate, but fixable as long as the pads are still there (not by putting sleeve back in, though).
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: N8N on Sun, 21 August 2011, 14:24:57: Exactly! usually the first time I do something, there's SOME minor issue that makes whatever I'm working on nonfunctional :)

I already hacked up the keycaps and didn't mess that up either...
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Sun, 21 August 2011, 14:27:38: WHEW! :)

Saw some videos of the Hakko 808 desolder unit. I want that, but it's gotta be under $100 for me to consider :(
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: bluecar5556 on Sun, 21 August 2011, 15:49:48: I'm debating whether or not electrical soldering or TIG welding was easier and faster to become proficient.

To anyone who is going through tips quickly, try to gracefully touch the work with the soldering iron. When a switch won't come out, due to the leads being at an angle, you can try using very small tweezers and straighten the lead while literally touching the joint with the iron instead.

The only difference between a 100% wettability tip and one that isn't is a lame super thin tin coating, so keeping that baby tinned like it's a fish in water will grant you more mileage similar to maintaining a car.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: bluecar5556 on Sun, 21 August 2011, 16:33:03: How else can oxides be removed? :lol:
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Sun, 21 August 2011, 16:44:00: Sal Ammoniac...does it work just like in the video you posted? It takes off oxides? I'm using the brass-flux shavings, seems awesome, but haven't done a large amount of soldering with it yet. Just some small things.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: bluecar5556 on Sun, 21 August 2011, 17:12:44: In my eyes that is just more money to spend. I've used the same ball of brass shavings for over a year now and every few months rinse under water while kneading it with my hands over my dogs water bowl (I kid I kid.)

When I don't see smoke after cleaning the tip, I put on gloves, take a bottle of rosin flux and knead a all small amount to thoroughly re-distribute the flux. Plop it back into its holder and it's done.

No worries about replenishing usually flux absent sponges with water or replacing them after they get undesirable. Keep it simple

(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/4783/599bbrasscleaner.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/689/599bbrasscleaner.jpg/)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Sun, 21 August 2011, 17:58:04: Good to know about the Sal Ammoniac and replenishing the brass. Have not done the block of Sal, but the brass couldn't be easier. I'd like to try the Sal just to try it.

Why rinse the brass under water? I understand about putting the flux on it, and I guess after doing that once or twice you'd get the hang of it.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: N8N on Sun, 21 August 2011, 18:26:15: Well, I must not be totally incompetent... I bring you this message courtesy of a Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry MX clear switches :)

it feels good...

and yeah, the plate mount switches feel way better than the PCB mount switches on the POS boards, as I anticipated they would. Happy is.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: bluecar5556 on Sun, 21 August 2011, 18:39:50: Muck such as spent dark flux, solder or anything but "ex. hot glue, melted plastic, etc." will eventually get stuck and accumulate in the brass shavings rather than falling to the bottom like it should. After months of continuous use and rotating the brass ball to a fresh side, it will visually change colors all together and crap will start coming off on the tip.

Of course, the idea is not to touch anything that isn't solder but it can happen to the best of us, especially oneself.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: N8N on Sun, 21 August 2011, 20:03:27: I've always used the wet sponge, but I splurged when I bought my latest round of soldering supplies to get me into the last decade and got the Hakko brass scrubbie thing, and honestly, I really like it. So much better than the sponge. But I've only used it for this one job so it hasn't needed "service" yet.

Now I've got this whole stack of Weller sponges that I salveaged from the trash at my last job that I'll never use :/
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: bluecar5556 on Mon, 22 August 2011, 03:23:43: More reason to use the brass scrubbie thing, the iron can be thrusted into it and remove the cob webs off of irons, too.

Wet sponges quench the tip degrading any metal given time and the soldering iron has to "recover" from the heat loss. Sponges use WATER while wiping off more solder than the brass scrubbie things without applying flux. It be a good idea to make sure the tip is nice and tinned or it might belong to the oxide gods when it's used next year, like this.

(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1931/oxidizedtip.jpg)

Use it or else. This advertisement brought to you by Hakko Inc., what are you soldering today?
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Parak on Mon, 22 August 2011, 09:15:41: Brass shavings (aka scouring pad)? Sponges?!

I just fling the soldering iron at anything that happens to be passing by. Cleans the excess solder really well.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: bluecar5556 on Mon, 22 August 2011, 10:17:17: That works well, too. How else is it possible to use up a 10 LB spool before losing it or within a decade, unless it's your profession?

Here's a rant about lead solder, if anyone is interested.

63/37(Sn/Pb) 'melting point @ 183 °C (361 °F)
Is generally a better mixture because once it cools below 361 °F, it solidifies immediately without a "floating range."

60/40(Sn/Pb) 'melting range @ 183–190 °C (361–374 °F.
When cooled below 375 °F, it must cool another 13 °F before solidifying completely. This increases the time the joint must remain steady, thus, increasing the likely hood of a cold solder joint.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: The Solutor on Mon, 22 August 2011, 10:21:04: Quote from: bluecar5556;403201
That works well too. How else is it possible to use up a 10 LB spool before losing it or within a decade, unless it's your profession?

With the old uncoated soldering iron, the steel wool was used often.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: The Solutor on Mon, 22 August 2011, 10:49:43: Quote from: ripster;403210
I call that the Italian Soldering School.

I'm glad you are used to call Italian anything new you are learning... [ATTACH=CONFIG]24846[/ATTACH] :party:
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Mon, 22 August 2011, 11:39:26: As a note of caution:

On fleabay, there is a seller (China) with a pic of what appears to be brass coiled scrubbie for $2.99 with no shipping cost. After emailing the seller, they state it is steel, not brass and there is no flux in it. Either it's brass and the seller is misinformed about what it is, or it's really not brass and shows an incorrect pic. They also sell a copy of a holder with a scrubbie for a couple dollars more.

So if anyone is looking to go that route, be careful you don't get something that appears to be something else. If I had not gotten the real thing, I would not have known the difference and probably been very disappointed with the results, and subsequently trash-talked it :)

EDITED POST FOR CLARIFICATION
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: bluecar5556 on Mon, 22 August 2011, 11:47:17: Aluminum and Brass are much easier to tap than Steel, from my experience, so my assumption is brass will be easier on the tip's tin coating then steel wool. The Hakko 599B isn't exactly cheap which is why I figured I would share how mine was cleaned. Just my two cents.

Thanks for the heads up, input.

"Why use the Hakko 599B Tip Cleaner over the conventional damp sponge? One of the biggest reasons why is becuase the Hakko 599B Tip Cleaner can remove oxidation buildup from the tip without removing the solder, or exposing the tip to thermal shock. The soft brass coils of the Hakko 599B allow oxidation to be removed without detrimental effects on the tip, while leaving a light coating of solder behind to help prevent further oxidation of the iron plating.

When using a damp sponge, the minerals in the water and any debris on the sponge itself that come in contact with the tip can lead to additonal buildup. The sponge also removes the solder from the tip exposing the iron plating to the air and the water of the sponge. Iron, water, and air all come together to make iron oxide, or rust. This is why it is important to immediately re-tin the tip after cleaning. The Hakko 599B re-tins the tip as it cleans, and never exposes the tip to any water or minerals." -hakkoUSA.com (http://www.hakkousa.com/kb/Article.aspx?id=10011)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: The Solutor on Mon, 22 August 2011, 11:57:13: Quote from: bluecar5556;403265
Aluminum and Brass are much easier to tap than Steel, from my experience, so my assumption is brass will be easier on the tip's tin coating. The Hakko 599B isn't exactly cheap which is why I figured I would share how mine was cleaned. Just my two cents.

Brass is softer than the steel, so it's likely less abrasive for the precious coating.

BTW the old school irons with the tip made of copper weren't really affected because the copper was consumed anyway via chemical reaction with the flux and with the soldering alloy
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: bluecar5556 on Mon, 22 August 2011, 12:01:14: Copper? That's crazy. "What were they thiiinking?" That question gets asked more often then not.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: The Solutor on Mon, 22 August 2011, 12:06:50: Quote from: bluecar5556;403282
Copper? That's crazy. "What were they thiiinking?"

They were thinking that was a cheap material with a great heat conductivity, that was easily being wet by the tin alloy.

The bigger irons, used by plumbers, are still made by bare copper.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Mon, 22 August 2011, 14:58:41: I go to fix the laptop USB last night, and come to realize I need to grip a part...I STILL NEED tiny tweezers! A month ago I didn't own anything in this picture except for the 2 disassembled multimeters in the lower right corner (they are utter crap) and the helping hand (and a now retired R.S. 30 watt iron resting quietly in the bushes in my backyard.)

This all started with me finding GH 2 years ago because I wanted to know if I could BUY a Kinesis Advantage that was split in half. This is pretty much what happens when you try a project, and you get your ass thrown back at you.

Off to buy tweezers, a real multimeter, and a tool case to put all this stuff in...

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=24870&d=1314043153)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: N8N on Mon, 22 August 2011, 15:44:20: Next thing you know you'll be like me, and go from having a cheap-a$$ meter and one soldering station salvaged from the trash (and assorted crap irons bought when caught somewhere, needing to solder, and not having station handy) to having two Flukes, a Simpson, and three soldering stations including a brand new Weller :)

On the upside, my soldering does look quite a bit more professional now, but I wish that Rat Shack had had some 63/37 in stock in a small diameter so I didn't have to use 60/40. (doesn't seem like I messed anything up though. 208 joints, no failures )
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Mon, 22 August 2011, 16:02:16: Dang!!!! That's a lotta stock! LOL

Big difference between 63/37 and 60/40??? Wow. I wouldn't have guessed.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: bluecar5556 on Mon, 22 August 2011, 16:41:21: Quote from: The Solutor;403290

The bigger irons, used by plumbers, are still made by bare copper.

I wonder if it has anything to do with acid flux.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Mon, 22 August 2011, 16:45:31: Quote from: bluecar5556;403486
I wonder if it has anything to do with acid flux.

Yes.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: The Solutor on Mon, 22 August 2011, 17:35:43: Quote from: bluecar5556;403486
I wonder if it has anything to do with acid flux.

Yes they are both cheap.

Being the quantities involved larger than in electronics, irons are often not coated, the soldering alloys used are often 50/50 or 40/60, and hydrochloric acid is used to clean the surfaces meant to be soldered.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: N8N on Mon, 22 August 2011, 19:36:57: So what do you use to lube the seal on your desoldering pump after cleaning? Silicone grease? just curious. I know there's a part number on the instruction sheet but I'm hoping that it's something that I already have laying around.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: bluecar5556 on Mon, 22 August 2011, 20:22:20: If the de-soldering pump o-ring is made of silicone, the use of silicone oil is appropriate. Petroleum based oil will deteriorate rubber similar to using condoms with oil based lube.

"NONCORROSIVE FLUXES.— Noncorrosive fluxes are for soldering electrical connections and for other work that must be free of any trace of corrosive residue. Rosin is the most commonly used noncorrosive flux. In the solid state, rosin is inactive and noncorrosive. When heated, it melts and provides some fluxing action. Rosin is available in powder, paste, or liquid form. Rosin fluxes frequently leave a brown residue. This residue is nonconductive and sometimes difficult to remove. The removal problem can be reduced by adding a small amount of turpentine to the rosin. Glycerine is added to the rosin to make the flux more effective.

CORROSIVE FLUXES.— Corrosive fluxes have the most effective cleaning action, but any trace of corrosive flux that remains on the work can cause corrosion later. For this reason, corrosive fluxes are not used on electrical connections or other work where corrosion would cause a serious problem.

The most commonly used corrosive fluxes are salammoniac (ammonium chloride) and zinc chloride. These fluxes are frequently used in either solution or in paste form. The solvent, if present, evaporates as the work heats, leaving a layer of solid flux on the work. When the metal reaches the soldering temperature, this layer of flux melts, partially decomposes, and liberates hydrochloric acid. The hydrochloric acid dissolves the oxides from the work surfaces and the solder, making them ready for soldering." -Source (http://www.sweethaven.com/sweethaven/BldgConst/Welding/lessonmain.asp?lesNum=6&modNum=1)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Mon, 22 August 2011, 20:33:25: I'll stick with brass scrubbies and flux, hopefully I won't get too much tip oxide and have to go the Sal route. :)

The Hakko 808 mentioned seems like a great way to go de-soldering a lot of contacts. Self-contained.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: bluecar5556 on Mon, 22 August 2011, 20:53:04: Salammoniac flux is not used on electrical connections and is in fact corrosive.

The only use I see for it is if rosin flux cannot remove the heavy oxidation from neglected tips as a last resort. The corrosive nature of ammonium chloride on the tip's tin coating is questionable which is why it could be a last ditch effort.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Mon, 22 August 2011, 20:59:28: Yea, thanks. I'll save the money until I reach the point my tips are that poor (if that's how it plays out). These tips are pricey. I assume if the oxides don't get too bad, you can usually keep them clean? If you let them get blackened, it's a more serious issue and then to try the sal? Fortunately the least of my concerns for now, I gotta get busy and use/ruin a few things first... lol
Thanks for that, it clarifies what I knew only a little about.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: N8N on Wed, 24 August 2011, 15:28:01: Quote from: bluecar5556;403572
If the de-soldering pump o-ring is made of silicone, the use of silicone oil is appropriate. Petroleum based oil will deteriorate rubber similar to using condoms with oil based lube.

Well, I guess that's the question. Is that O-ring typically a silicone rubber, and how would I determine that?

Fortunately, I do not have experience with the issue that you use as an example :)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: bluecar5556 on Wed, 24 August 2011, 15:35:09: "Silicone grease is an amorphous fumed, silica-thickened, polysiloxane-based compound, which can be used to provide lubrication and corrosion resistance. Since it is not oil-based, it is often used where oil-based lubricants would attack rubber seals. Silicone greases also maintain stability under high temperatures. They are often used, in pure form or mixed with zinc oxide, to join heat sinks to computer CPUs."
"The grease helps to prevent joints from "freezing", as well as ensuring high vacuum systems are properly sealed." -Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grease_%28lubricant%29#Silicone_grease)

EDIT: Silicone oil or grease is also not detergent based, which has an affinity for dirt and the like, thus making it last longer. If a high viscosity lubricant (grease) prohibits the functionality of the pump, use a lower viscosity, aerosol silicone.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]25004[/ATTACH]
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: The Solutor on Wed, 24 August 2011, 19:26:31: Quote from: bluecar5556;403572
If the de-soldering pump o-ring is made of silicone, the use of silicone oil is appropriate. Petroleum based oil will deteriorate rubber similar to using condoms with oil based lube.

It's exactly the opposite, silicone oil/grease should be avoided on silicone rubber. And mineral oils should be avoided with some other synthetic rubbers...

http://www.marcorubber.com/materialguide.htm
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: bluecar5556 on Wed, 24 August 2011, 19:52:19: Sources saying silicone oil is compatible with silicone o-rings:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/448597-REG/Fantasea_Line_11192_Silicone_O_Ring_Grease.html
Silicone lubes are being falsely advertised as being compatible with silicone o-rings all over the place. It really should be illegal to false advertise, have to research everything these days, ugh.

Sources saying silicone oil is not compatible with silicone o-rings
http://www.allorings.com/compatibility.htm
http://www.allorings.com/compatibility.htm
http://www.efunda.com/designstandards/oring/oring_chemical.cfm?SC=none&SM=Silicone#chem
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: The Solutor on Wed, 24 August 2011, 20:00:06: Quote from: bluecar5556;404588
Sources saying silicone oil is compatible with silicone o-rings:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/448597-REG/Fantasea_Line_11192_Silicone_O_Ring_Grease.html
Silicone lubes are being falsely advertised as being compatible with silicone o-rings all over the place. It really should be illegal to false advertise, have to research everything these days, ugh.

Sources saying silicone oil is not compatible with silicone o-rings
http://www.allorings.com/compatibility.htm
http://www.allorings.com/compatibility.htm
http://www.efunda.com/designstandards/oring/oring_chemical.cfm?SC=none&SM=Silicone#chem

Is not said that there's a false advertising, just the solvents involved may be different.

BTW when in doubt just use mineral oil with silicone and silicone with other rubbers natural or not.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Konrad on Wed, 24 August 2011, 20:01:27: Hmm, I've never had to lube up a desoldering pump. I usually just replace the $2 tip on the $10 tool, in fact the entire tool usually needs to be replaced long before the internal O-rings ever fail, often because the casing cracks after dropping too many times (oopsy). The tips seem to usually be made of some kind of heat-resistant PTFE/Teflon or Nylon66 plastic, similar to those used in bus terminals and power connectors. Some economy is required, I do a LOT of soldering (trust me) and really, the $10 tool works well enough as-is without pimping it out with bling. Drop two or three (or a whole shoebox) of them on the ground over the years and you'll have plenty of spare O-rings if that's a concern.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: bluecar5556 on Wed, 24 August 2011, 20:14:12: I've read forums where people have had the same manual de-soldering pump from the 70's with a metal bore and are still using it to this day. Now they are mainly constructed with plastic bores, instead. Goes to show how the mighty artificially inflating US dollar, which all other currencies "value" are based on, makes any one product in existence with the best workmanship and quality of materials more of an impossibility to create as time progresses.

Money it's a crime
Share it fairly but don't take a slice of my pie
Money so they say
Is the root of all evil today
But if you ask for a raise it's no surprise that they're
giving none away

Still, if their disposable as you say they are, there has to be a brand of de-soldering pumps that are worth the price and last much longer to compensate in the long run...
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Konrad on Wed, 24 August 2011, 20:46:13: I suppose I could machine my own uber quality desoldering pump. But, again, it's a $10 disposable part, and of course I don't like throwing money away but there comes a point where the fugly PVC tape patches cost you more hassle than they're worth and I'd rather spend my time working on a more useful productive focus than engineering superior versions of cheapass auxilliary tools.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: bluecar5556 on Wed, 24 August 2011, 20:59:12: There is one problem, money and debt does not exist. Debt really is not recycling the 'finite resources on our planet, making human extinction inevitable, at the current rate. haha, just kidding! No seriously, there are many other planets like this one that have or to have seeds planted. We are a spec in the sand, an experiment at most.

I feel the same way about lighters, so cheap and too easy to lose. It is nice using filtered butane in the refillable ones, though.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Konrad on Wed, 24 August 2011, 23:49:22: The funny thing about lighters is that I used to buy one or two every week, could never figure out how and where the hell they kept disappearing because I'm a creature of habit and I instinctively distrust other smokers when they're holding my fire - yet I've seen the same cheap green lighter sitting in my jacket pocket every day for almost a year, don't know what to do with it since I quit smoking. No doubt it'll mysteriously vanish the next time I actually need to burn something, amazing that I work with liquid metals every day but probably can't start a fire as well as a Neanderthal when I actually need to do so.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Wed, 24 August 2011, 23:53:46: Secret to not losing lighters: Buy an expensive one.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Konrad on Thu, 25 August 2011, 02:29:51: Hmphf, that logic never seems to prevent my expensive software CDs from mysteriously vanishing.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: bluecar5556 on Thu, 25 August 2011, 08:40:55: An idea is back them up with disc cloning software, such as cloneDVD with anyDVD (removes protection) by Slysoft (http://www.slysoft.com/en/clonedvd.html) (for Windows,) and keep the originals locked away in a fire proof safe for safe keeping. Works every time.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Thu, 25 August 2011, 18:08:26: I like it in the old country. You get caught with something that's not yours, they cut off your hand.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: RickyJ on Sat, 03 September 2011, 00:42:38: Picked up a Hakko brass tip cleaner and holder the other day when I was getting some parts for a repair job. Best $14cdn I spent in a long damn time!
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Sat, 03 September 2011, 01:34:56: Yes, it's very slick, the only thing I know of that's better, is this:

Costs a lot more than $14cnd.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Lanx on Tue, 20 September 2011, 00:44:39: question, if i don't strip the rubber off a wire (no idea what it's called) can i just burn off a little bit with the solder iron, then solder it fast? will it damage my tip? i'm making multiple point to point connections with wire and contacts, and i'm tired of cutting and stripping each wire section per connection.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: RickyJ on Tue, 20 September 2011, 01:21:19: You mean the insulation, right? You'll be better off stripping the wires properly, the plastic just melts (eventually) and makes a mess. Wiring takes time.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: The Solutor on Tue, 20 September 2011, 01:31:43: Quote from: Lanx;418952
question, if i don't strip the rubber off a wire (no idea what it's called) can i just burn off a little bit with the solder iron, then solder it fast? will it damage my tip? i'm making multiple point to point connections with wire and contacts, and i'm tired of cutting and stripping each wire section per connection.

If you use a proper wire meant for reworking and/or wire wrapping this shouldn't be a problem.

The tiny wires from a PATA 66/100 flat cable could be a good option if you don't have the proper wire.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Konrad on Tue, 20 September 2011, 01:34:47: Insulation, lol. Melted plastic/rubber fumes are stinky and definitely toxic, probably causes cancer and brain damage and organ failure (yeah, maybe even that organ if you inhale the fumes long enough). But, more significantly, they coat your shiny tinned soldering tip with crusty sticky black crud which contaminates everything it touches and wrecks the chemistry of the flux/rosin ... so soldering will become messy and difficult and the soldered joints will likely end up being substandard, being brittle and more prone to long-term failure under mechanical or thermal stress and vibration.

Don't get in the habit of melting insulation. Keep soldering tips and joints clean. If you insist on melting insulation (instead of properly cutting it off with wirestrippers or blades) then at least do it with a lighter instead of dirtying up your soldering tools, and brush the exposed wires with metal bristle/mesh to remove the almost invisible coat of melty goop which will interfere with solder alloys and electrical conductivity.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Wed, 26 October 2011, 02:44:55: I finally used my Hakko 808 desoldering gun for real. Amazing. Solder pumps and solder wick are dirty words now. Check out youtube videos of this thing in action.

Input Nirvana Recommendation: If you come across a Hakko 808 that has been run over by a truck and sat in a puddle for a month, buy it anyway. It's incredible. As long as the tip gets hot and the suction works...WOW! Do yourself a favor and spoil yourself, you deserve it. You will not believe how fast and easy this is. It does a better job, too.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: dorkvader on Wed, 26 October 2011, 17:53:41: Hakko 808 is expensive, but completly worth it. I've never used one, but REALLY want one. Maybe Christmas..?
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: litster on Tue, 13 March 2012, 14:48:44: Anyone used this X-Tronic 4040 soldering station? it has an iron and a hot air gun. Very good reviews on Amazon. The same seller is also selling it on ebay for cheaper price.

(http://www.stxinternational.com/XTRON_hotair_003_fullpictureinside.jpg)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/X-TRONIC-4040-HOT-AIR-REWORK-SOLDERING-IRON-STATION-/180672745995?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a10ef520b

http://www.amazon.com/X-TRONIC-MODEL-4040-Soldering-MAGNIFYING/dp/B003TC8EQS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1331667993&sr=8-1
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Parak on Tue, 13 March 2012, 15:00:02: Can't speak for that one in particular, but I was a bit leery of bellows based units. Bellows seem to fail more than regular fans, the station has to be big enough to fit them, and the cord that carries the hot air is a pain to deal with. I did a group order on 8 yihua 898D with a bunch of extra elements and tips that came out to $70 or something per person. Works great, though the temperature sometimes needs calibration.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Netdewt on Tue, 13 March 2012, 16:01:17: <3 my Weller WES51.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: sordna on Wed, 14 March 2012, 17:34:43: Quote from: Netdewt;544835
<3 my Weller WES51.

I have the same one! Love it.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]44131[/ATTACH]
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: RickyJ on Mon, 14 May 2012, 01:09:17: I had posted this up before, but the forum rolled back again.

I got my new hot air station last week, same unit that litster linked but rebadged and only $100cdn locally. (http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4393) Build quality is cheap as expected, but I haven't had time to fire it up yet to see how it performs. Bought some extra nozzles for some of the chips I have to work with too.

(http://i.imgur.com/2klVC.jpg)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: RickyJ on Thu, 24 May 2012, 23:04:09: Sure is quiet in here! Finally got enough time last night to set up and get an instrument cluster fixed. I'll let the pics do the talking.

(http://i.imgur.com/9FNYl.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/AlUSQ.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/nANyp.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/tbd8w.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/TPr3A.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/WQl26.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/rUY6t.jpg)

Did a quick practice by removing and reinstalling an 0603 sized cap on the board of my dead router, then moved onto the 44-pin PLCC. Took 20 seconds to remove that chip! Love the new machine!
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: leoblack9 on Fri, 25 May 2012, 10:41:39: I remember using the soldering iron to fix up some broken lines in my rubber dome's plastic circuitry. Didn't end well
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Maarten on Fri, 25 May 2012, 11:22:43: Thats some great work RickyJ!!
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Vadimk on Fri, 25 May 2012, 22:39:07: I picked up a Hakko FX-888 just before Christmas, I had bean using a cheap weller iron, but this thing is nice :)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: speakeasy on Sun, 27 May 2012, 21:51:29: I got me an Aoyue 938+ a couple weeks back. I like it a lot, though the only other thing I can really compare it to was one of those cheapo irons that you plugged straight into the wall that we used back in middle school.

Though, now I kinda wish I spent the extra $30 and got one of these babies so I could play with SMDs

(http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/idrack/at8586.jpg)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: RickyJ on Mon, 28 May 2012, 01:23:00: Quote from: Maarten;599940
Thats some great work RickyJ!!

Thanks! Not bad for what little practice I had with it! :)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: RickyJ on Mon, 28 May 2012, 01:29:01: I really don't see why some people want the hot air stations that use a fan in the handle.

Pros:
- Station has a smaller footprint.
- Fans are cheaper than isolated diaphragm pumps, hence cheaper price of entry.

Cons:
- Handle is larger, makes it more cumbersome. Regular hot-air station handles are big enough as it is.
- Small fans are whiny.
- Fans cause vibration, however slight. Over time this can have an impact on comfort.
- Non-linear air flow control.
- "Higher air flow" can blow components off the PCB if you're not careful.
- Industry standard is diaphragm pumps, why go against what the experts obviously prefer/recommend?

The only noise I hear from my station is the flow from the nozzle. The hose is silicone and very flexible, it doesn't weigh the handle down when I'm moving it. :)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: speakeasy on Mon, 28 May 2012, 04:35:12: Eh, it's smaller and cheaper, and that's for me to look past the cons there. Like I said, I'm just starting out so no need for me to get anything fancy.

Here's a video review of same brand but just the hot air station, it doesn't look terribly loud or uncomfortable.

[video=youtube;vva2t21sOAs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vva2t21sOAs[/video]
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Maarten on Mon, 28 May 2012, 06:26:38: OMG i cant watch that video, that dude is annoying....
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: speakeasy on Mon, 28 May 2012, 10:41:55: Yeah, the guy's voice makes him sound like an Australian parrot, but I thought it was a helpful review...

Anyway I don't plan on getting that model anymore, just saying I wish I had spent the extra $30 to get an entry level hot air gun for SMD work.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 28 May 2012, 10:48:07: yah, personally, i'm looking to do very limited amounts of SMT work. it's more important for me to get the feature for a bit cheaper and to have a quality iron element..
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Wildcard on Thu, 07 June 2012, 00:23:36: Love my Weller WD1, tips are easy to change and keeps constant temps. Has programmable temp settings so you can set auto set a high heat, mid heat, & temp cool down.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: hasu on Sun, 10 June 2012, 06:50:22: Got very old wellers from dead stock and stacked them for small footprint.
(http://i.imgur.com/MMr0ll.jpg)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Wildcard on Sun, 17 June 2012, 13:59:09: Quote from: hasu;610732
Got very old wellers from dead stock and stacked them for small footprint.

Good use of zip ties!
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: MMB on Sun, 17 June 2012, 14:16:50: My setup:

Hakko 808 Desoldering Gun
http://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_808.html

Hakko FX-888 Soldering Station
http://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fx888.html

(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/8639/dsc0182fv.jpg)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: litster on Sun, 17 June 2012, 21:12:05: I want a Hakko 808...
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Wildcard on Sun, 17 June 2012, 21:46:02: Quote from: litster;615882
I want a Hakko 808...

Ditto,

For when braided wick or a desoldering tool just don't cut it.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 17 June 2012, 22:14:49: ok, decision time-ish. hakko 888 vs aouyue hot air + iron station?
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Sun, 17 June 2012, 22:25:44: The 808 is the true pimp method of desoldering, hands down. I've only used mine once, and I couldn't believe it, as I desoldered another and another connection. Really, what is your time worth? A LOT. It could sell for almost twice as much and be totally worth it. Honestly, I will have a tough time using wick or a desoldering pump (although they are both cheap and you should keep them in your kit) when the 808 is available.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: kidchunks on Sun, 17 June 2012, 23:09:48: That 808 will def be my next purchase! Wish I had it when I was doing my iMod.

Current Station (when clean)

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=39364&d=1328232570)
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Sun, 17 June 2012, 23:35:32: That is SO DAMN CUTE!
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 18 June 2012, 00:21:56: hmm maybe i should bug our sysadmin and see if he can justify getting the lab an 808

sounds like the 888 is the way to go for my home station
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Mon, 18 June 2012, 00:25:16: The 808 is the way to go. Period. It does what it does, very quickly, easily, less skill, less damage. All wins, no drawbacks.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: litster on Mon, 18 June 2012, 03:11:27: are there smaller tips you can use with the 808?
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Mon, 18 June 2012, 12:22:02: Yes, there is a range. When I got the 808 I got several tips and supporting accessories. King of overkill I guess.

Go here: http://www.hakkousa.com/detail.asp?CID=50&PID=838&Page=5
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: MMB on Mon, 18 June 2012, 13:55:20: Quote from: litster;616068
are there smaller tips you can use with the 808?

The tip I am using on mine is the smallest you can get. Good for working with LED solder leads (which are tiny)

http://www.hakkousa.com/detail.asp?PID=1632&Page=1

There is a .8mm, but it has the fat housing which gets in the way of very small spaces
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: metafour on Mon, 18 June 2012, 17:56:07: Is there a hole in the tip like a syringe that lets you suck up the solder as it heats up?
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: WRXChris on Mon, 18 June 2012, 19:01:09: Quote from: metafour;616521
Is there a hole in the tip like a syringe that lets you suck up the solder as it heats up?

Yeah. Watch a youtube vid of it in action and you'll want one as bad as I do!
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: litster on Mon, 18 June 2012, 19:17:57: Please, someone start a group buy already!
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: litster on Tue, 19 June 2012, 22:59:57: I found the best solder vaccum pump. It is call Edsyn Soldapullt. They have different models. I got this one on Amazon, sold by Global GPU Repair Solutions.

http://www.amazon.com/Edsyn-Soldapullt-Silverstat-Plastic-Conductive/dp/B000PDOOM2/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&m=A1751RVK69SO34&qid=1340164394&s=generic&sr=1-5

Pretty sucky, due to its long stoke. Ooh, that sounds dirty. And it is made in the USA!
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: MMB on Tue, 19 June 2012, 23:04:28: Quote from: litster;617535
I found the best solder vaccum pump. It is call Edsyn Soldapullt. They have different models. I got this one on Amazon, sold by Global GPU Repair Solutions.

http://www.amazon.com/Edsyn-Soldapullt-Silverstat-Plastic-Conductive/dp/B000PDOOM2/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&m=A1751RVK69SO34&qid=1340164394&s=generic&sr=1-5

Pretty sucky, due to its long stoke. Ooh, that sounds dirty. And it is made in the USA!

I used one for a while. When it came to sucking solder out from the smaller holes, like LED leads, it just caused more headache. It would take 3 or 4 maybe more tries to completely empty the eyelet.
I think I went through about 5 different brands of solder suckers. All with pretty much the same result. I guess it's best for the larger holes. This thread sounds dirtier by the second....
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Tue, 19 June 2012, 23:49:22: Many $5 solder suckers suck. Poorly. Like a dime store hooker on Sunday.
There are several better models like the Soldapullt (I have one) which make a dozen different models....and there are knockoffs that are pretty good too. They still can't do what the 808 can do, nor as fast and as easy. If you're just desoldering for a few mins...not a big deal. But if you do a lot....the difference is HUGE.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: MMB on Wed, 20 June 2012, 00:27:47: Quote from: input nirvana;617569
Many $5 solder suckers suck. Poorly. Like a dime store hooker on Sunday.
There are several better models like the Soldapullt (I have one) which make a dozen different models....and there are knockoffs that are pretty good too. They still can't do what the 808 can do, nor as fast and as easy. If you're just desoldering for a few mins...not a big deal. But if you do a lot....the difference is HUGE.

Agreed. I used the Soldapult as well. It was great until I started working on double-sided pcb, on very small leads. Just took wayyyy more time to try and remove all of the solder with the soldapult.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: litster on Wed, 20 June 2012, 00:41:36: yes, Soldapullt works better on large solder joints. They do have a few models with micro tips, but definitely not as good as an 808.
Title: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Wed, 20 June 2012, 00:52:21: Ultimately, they are very different animals that do the same thing. I still keep wick and a Soldapullt.
Title: Re: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: fartq on Sun, 05 August 2012, 13:03:21: i need new soldering gear.
Title: Re: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Djuzuh on Sun, 05 August 2012, 13:28:02: Quote from: mkawa_ on Sun, 05 August 2012, 13:03:21
i need new soldering gear.
I need my first soldering gear.

Well, I do have a cheap solder iron. But I never used it xD. How bad could a cheap one be btw? Is it safe to use it? or should I better throw it away and take a nice deal?
Title: Re: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: mistakemistake on Sun, 05 August 2012, 20:22:10: Quote from: RickyJ on Wed, 13 October 2010, 20:25:34
Quote from: ripster;223026
Just get a Weller. Lots of tips available. Will last a lifetime. Most importantly get one with automatic turn off so you don't burn down the house.

I use a WES51. (http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WES51-Analog-Soldering-Station/dp/B000BRC2XU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1284436051&sr=8-2)
Show Image
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41WVs6AdNqL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

This.

I've used my WES51 for about 6 years now, from wiring cars to production surface mount PCB work. I've got multiple tips for it, they're pretty cheap at Fry's in the US (expensive in Canada, stocked up the last time I was south of the border), but I haven't worn one out yet. I can hand-solder 0603-sized SMD components with ease, and super-fine pitched ICs.

I use 700°F for everyday leaded soldering/desoldering. I drop it down to 650 for delicate leaded work, and up it to 750 for leaded work with heavy traces/mass or for lead-free work.

I too use a Weller WES51. I've had mine for about four years now and use it daily for work. The more expensive ones just add additional fine tuning ability and convenience features. Ultimately, it depends on what you're looking to do. You can't go wrong with Weller! Pics if you'd like..
Title: Re: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: fartq on Sun, 05 August 2012, 21:16:23: both the hakko 808 and wes51 seem to be good workhorses for everything but really fine smd work and desoldering (where we know the 888 is just king). i know we had a couple people buy those bellows hot air units recently. would like to hear from them on how that's gone before i buy anything...
Title: Re: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: alaricljs on Sun, 05 August 2012, 21:37:49: Got that 808/888 backwards again, kawa :P

My Weller WLC100 is fine for anything from heavy gauge cable (stock tip - 1/8th chisel), to soldering KBs (1/16th chisel), to SMD (1/32nd cone). Only reason I have to replace it is features and finer temp control. A 1-5 control doesn't tell you much if you can't read smoke signals. Those models w/ the smoke sucker sound like a nice idea. A desoldering head is on my wish list and of course, who doesn't like hot air?
Title: Re: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: fartq on Sun, 05 August 2012, 21:43:57: damnit!

so i actually had a wlc100 that i gave away (to family) because i was so unhappy with it. it takes a very long time to heat up sometimes
Title: Re: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: alaricljs on Sun, 05 August 2012, 21:48:16: Yeah sucker is slow to heat, no doubt there. With experience you can speed it up by cranking it to 5 and setting a timer. My handle is also dying a slow stupid death... something inside broke and is slowly crumbling.
Title: Re: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: fartq on Sun, 05 August 2012, 21:53:38: the problem is i may need something so foolproof that not even demik can screw it up :D
Title: Re: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: demik on Sun, 05 August 2012, 21:54:43: im going to burn i hate kawa into you when you aren't looking
Title: Re: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: fartq on Sun, 05 August 2012, 21:55:40: maybe i'll stick with the wlc100 then...
Title: Re: Soldering Iron/Station.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Wed, 08 August 2012, 00:51:41: Quote from: demik on Sun, 05 August 2012, 21:54:43
im going to burn i hate kawa into you when you aren't looking

Don't bother, I already have that tattooed on my pecker, right where everyone can see it.

I see guys with absolute soldering JUNK and they solder the crap outta everything. Technique accounts for a LOT!

I don't like junk.