geekhack

geekhack Marketplace => Interest Checks => Topic started by: huey on Wed, 02 June 2021, 13:24:09

Title: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: huey on Wed, 02 June 2021, 13:24:09

DCS Honeywell



(https://i.imgur.com/vEs7qAQ.jpg)



Imagine reading ICs in 2021 (https://imgur.com/a/4uPkGXI)
IC Form (https://forms.gle/eJCGQp2zty76bufX6)



Introduction
Hello Geekhack. I have been disgruntled with the lack of options when it comes to Signature Plastics DCS. Barring a few projects that have been going on over the last few months, there have been very little in ways of offerings for DCS.
This, and an admiration for the timeless colour-way that is Honeywell, together has prompted the idea of trying to organise a run of DCS Honeywell.

History
More
The Honeywell colourway is one that takes its colours from a series of vintage terminal boards. These boards were produced and sold by the Honeywell brand a few decades after the acquisition of the Micro-Switch company and associated trademarks in 1950. These used their now distinguished SD series of Hall Effect switches. The caps used were very thick, tall, spherical, double-shot caps; and were made in a few configurations for different use-cases, whilst generally maintaining a familiar colour scheme. The Honeywell colour scheme as we know it in our modern use incorporates the grey and white scheme with the additions of red accents that have become timeless over the many years and rounds - This project is no different, though it is missing a black numpad…

Colours
The colours used will be WKF (alpha), GPA (mods), and RAS (accents). Please don’t take this picture as a colour accurate source.
More
(https://i.imgur.com/aJaIlaF.jpg)

Kitting
(https://i.imgur.com/Nj8NpDx.jpg)



This base kit supports ANSI/(UK)ISO 104, 1800, F13, Tsangan/MX HHKB, basic alice, and dirty mod pipe/tilde users. It also includes the choice of barred or nippled homing F, J and 5 keys.

Kitting is by no means final. I will be keeping an active eye on feedback and make reasonable changes as and when based on thematic choices and compatibility for the community.

The biggest point of contention I have is alice/split spacebar support. SP DCS spec states that spacebars under 3u are not produced convex (like normal spacebars), but are concave (like shifts).
This means there is no functional (albeit, aesthetic) difference from using shifts as spacebars. This is the reason I haven't supported those layouts out-right, but I am open to supporting them given the popularity of the layout. In the IC form, you can vote whether this should be added considering the information given.

I am going back and forth on legend for the mods, and haven't made a definite decision. I will be sticking with text+icon, but SP has options to choose from. For now, the renders will reflect the "stock" mod legending until final changes have been made, and finalised renders can be... rendered.




Renders
(https://i.imgur.com/pa8FCRU.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/GxaC5Ag.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/RRCfbcA.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/ccT86FH.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ulQMnh7.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/ewdgZ40.jpg)

Boards rendered:
Flamingo by Geon
Evolv by NathanAlphaMan
A Keyboard

Qs and As

More
Will you remove UK-ISO from base?
No.

Ne alice/split space support avail?
Read the kitting section carefully.

Lmao why DCS? It's trash.
No.

No child kits?
DCS interest quite obviously isn't very high comparatively to other profiles. Adding child kits is certainly an option for more compat, but is also a point of failure.
If there is a decent amount of interest, I would love to add more compat and thematic choices via child kits/shifting kitting. But I'm not banking on it.

10u?
Yes please.

Estimate pricing?
I think it’s a bit of a pipe dream, but if a 200 MOQ could be met. Then my target price would be $110 (or less) with this base kit in mind. This obviously isn’t a final price.


Thanks/Credit
Credit to Miruim and 7bit for bringing this classic colourway to us in the first place via Deskthority.
Thanks to livingspeedbump/Andy for his blessing.
Thanks to friends that have given their time to provide me with feedback.
Thanks to Seoulcialite for the valuable information he has given to me.
Thanks to NathanAlphaMan for doing fantastic renders. It's great to see DCS models getting better and better.



Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: of_sam on Wed, 02 June 2021, 13:24:17
There are too many words for my tiny brain. I like the colors. What is the cone board?
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Alessio01 on Wed, 02 June 2021, 13:24:44
reserved
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: MIGHTY CHICKEN on Wed, 02 June 2021, 13:25:06
Interesting
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Jampot_298 on Wed, 02 June 2021, 13:25:16
nice
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Vortext on Wed, 02 June 2021, 13:25:23
Dcs  :cool:
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Gondolindrim on Wed, 02 June 2021, 13:25:31
There are too many words for my tiny brain. I like the colors. What is the cone board?

Lets face it, your brain cant process more than three words simultaneously anyways and they generally are ISO IS GOOD
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: sourmk on Wed, 02 June 2021, 13:26:00
hueth hypeth
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: llKanull on Wed, 02 June 2021, 13:26:25
Really like this set. :)
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: paulgali on Wed, 02 June 2021, 13:26:33
Hueth poggeth! DCS lets gooooo
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Aiwanei on Wed, 02 June 2021, 13:27:58
I'm 100% in!
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: productkun on Wed, 02 June 2021, 13:30:17
Looking hot
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: nevin on Wed, 02 June 2021, 13:32:52
why not center the legends? like the original? or is that not an option with SP?
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Fe on Wed, 02 June 2021, 13:34:57
thank you hueth very cool
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Fredington on Wed, 02 June 2021, 13:35:03
👍
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: NoPunIn10Did on Wed, 02 June 2021, 13:36:15
If the goal is to provide Alice support, I'd also include 2u Shift as well as the extra B key.

That way an Alice layout's "spacebar" keys can match, and the user doesn't have to give up the numpad 2u in order to have a 2u spacebar.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: jrfhoutx on Wed, 02 June 2021, 13:37:08
Alps pls...
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: catamscott on Wed, 02 June 2021, 13:37:40
hell yeah
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: whirlwind on Wed, 02 June 2021, 13:38:05
Yes!
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: nevin on Wed, 02 June 2021, 13:38:31
Alps pls...


ooh, good point!
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: fireworm on Wed, 02 June 2021, 14:10:33
Please note that Alice support includes an extra B as well. I would advise some R3 WFK blanks for spacebars (instead of R4 / R2 shifts). SP may be able to make this kit a small MOQ (50 iirc), but that may be too many.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: huey on Wed, 02 June 2021, 14:15:22
why not center the legends? like the original? or is that not an option with SP?
I do not believe centred legends for DCS is a stock options and brand new moulds would have to made.
I also think on cylindrical keycaps, a corner aligned legends looks better. I would entirely agree if it the profile was spherical.

If the goal is to provide Alice support, I'd also include 2u Shift as well as the extra B key.

That way an Alice layout's "spacebar" keys can match, and the user doesn't have to give up the numpad 2u in order to have a 2u spacebar.
I do not believe that there is even a small amount of users that will use a separate numpad, plus an alice-style 60/65, and have the set across both boards. This cross section of choices is very particular. Nor are there any alice-style boards with a numpad that supports a 2u numpad shift that I know of. From the ones I've seen, they are all 1u 0.

The extra B will also come along with the space bars. I think if the user is okay with having shifts are spaces, they are likely okay with having the incorrect legend on the extra B. Though, having the same colour "spacebar" is a valid consideration.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: huey on Wed, 02 June 2021, 14:16:49
Alps pls...
It would be cool as hell, but I'm afraid it'll be MX champ.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: treeleaf64 on Wed, 02 June 2021, 15:19:11
goodbye dcs9009  this is now my favorite of all time
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: NoPunIn10Did on Wed, 02 June 2021, 15:30:00
why not center the legends? like the original? or is that not an option with SP?
I do not believe centred legends for DCS is a stock options and brand new moulds would have to made.
I also think on cylindrical keycaps, a corner aligned legends looks better. I would entirely agree if it the profile was spherical.

If the goal is to provide Alice support, I'd also include 2u Shift as well as the extra B key.

That way an Alice layout's "spacebar" keys can match, and the user doesn't have to give up the numpad 2u in order to have a 2u spacebar.
I do not believe that there is even a small amount of users that will use a separate numpad, plus an alice-style 60/65, and have the set across both boards. This cross section of choices is very particular. Nor are there any alice-style boards with a numpad that supports a 2u numpad shift that I know of. From the ones I've seen, they are all 1u 0.

The extra B will also come along with the space bars. I think if the user is okay with having shifts are spaces, they are likely okay with having the incorrect legend on the extra B. Though, having the same colour "spacebar" is a valid consideration.

If you're doing a separate spacebar kit, then that's all workable.  I do know that the people who use GK64 layout and such, where the 2u shift key really is a shift key, would probably appreciate the compatibility too.

As for the extra B, note whether that increases that colors of plastic in the other kit.  If so, you may be better off with it in base from a cost-optimization standpoint.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: of_sam on Wed, 02 June 2021, 16:27:55
If you're doing a separate spacebar kit, then that's all workable.  I do know that the people who use GK64 layout and such, where the 2u shift key really is a shift key, would probably appreciate the compatibility too.
If someone with a gk64 decides to buy this they should buy a better keyboard.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: GMK_Andy on Wed, 02 June 2021, 16:37:48
As an avid lover of this colorway, I approve of this message!

Say hi to Melissa and Bob over at SP! <3 those folks!
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: ENG Studio on Wed, 02 June 2021, 16:39:21
Classic colourway <3
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: mrpetrov on Wed, 02 June 2021, 16:47:03
100% in for this.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Ensaum on Wed, 02 June 2021, 16:53:23
So much yes. Probably my all time favorite colorway, and I'd love to try out DCS.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Alchemist Keyboards on Wed, 02 June 2021, 18:17:22
Lovely kitting and great colourway to bring to DCS. 100% in.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Fnzzy on Wed, 02 June 2021, 19:17:10
Forgot to add this to the IC form, but I will not consider this with text mods. I was really excited to see Honeywell with text + icon.

Also thanks sick project.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Ensaum on Wed, 02 June 2021, 19:46:45
Forgot to add this to the IC form, but I will not consider this with text mods. I was really excited to see Honeywell with text + icon.

Also thanks sick project.

And it'll be a hard pass for me if it ends up being icon only. +1 for text+icon
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: RA Can on Thu, 03 June 2021, 01:07:13
great work, good luck with the ic
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: gilbert on Thu, 03 June 2021, 05:31:19
More DCS  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: JQ27 on Thu, 03 June 2021, 05:49:05
Will you remove UK-ISO from base?
No.

Thank you, really digging this set colours and as a UK-ISO user who spends way to much to support inclusion of UK-ISO, my wallet is not prepared.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: cpt-nic on Thu, 03 June 2021, 06:12:46
Never touched DCS but I really like honeywell.
Is there any estimated timeline yet?
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: hali on Thu, 03 June 2021, 07:44:17
yes please. if someone could rerun olivetti in dcs too, that would be cool
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Juan. on Thu, 03 June 2021, 08:12:16
yooo is that the gmmk pro?



(nice set huey  :D )
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Tyson on Thu, 03 June 2021, 12:45:05
Well **** on my nutsack and call me grandma, I'm in! You know I love Honeywell ;)
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: hottrout on Fri, 04 June 2021, 09:47:49
Perfect.  In 100%.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Seoulcialite on Fri, 04 June 2021, 12:28:08
In!

NE 10u spacebar avail?
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: lovidore on Fri, 11 June 2021, 18:04:33
Yes.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: ideus on Fri, 11 June 2021, 18:13:40
A classic is a classic, always. I am not sure about DCS worth paying the same price as GMK's, though.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: switchnollie on Fri, 11 June 2021, 18:18:41
I'd be interested depending on how much SP GB sets are going for these days. Haven't seen one in forever.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: justinhigley on Fri, 11 June 2021, 21:31:35
A classic is a classic, always. I am not sure about DCS worth paying the same price as GMK's, though.

Having the caps a year earlier is worth something. Probably different amounts to different people, but definitely something.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 11 June 2021, 21:33:31
No one interested in using Cherry legends like DCS Sleeper?  They look really nice.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: HungerMechanic on Sat, 12 June 2021, 01:58:06
Yeah, can we at least get a render of this with Cherry legends :D
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Fnzzy on Sat, 12 June 2021, 09:38:36
I'm personally not at all interested in that.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: treeleaf64 on Sat, 12 June 2021, 10:54:59
No one interested in using Cherry legends like DCS Sleeper?  They look really nice.

Dcs legend is good by itself     It does not need the silly Cherry imitations      It can hold its own and it is a Recognizable  Thing Yes
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: ideus on Sat, 12 June 2021, 14:40:29
A classic is a classic, always. I am not sure about DCS worth paying the same price as GMK's, though.

Having the caps a year earlier is worth something. Probably different amounts to different people, but definitely something.


I have not thought about the current processing times that should be measured in years. In any case, the price value is what you will end up having, waiting less would not compensate for what you will have on hand, would it?
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Fnzzy on Sat, 12 June 2021, 20:21:12
What I will ask for, however, is that you consider left aligned arrows :)

Instant edit: I realised that this means Cherry legends, I thought they have their own version of that. Disregard.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: TheWonderBubble on Sat, 12 June 2021, 21:10:44
So far this has my interest. With 40s/ergo support, you'll almost certainly have my money as well.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Neely_12 on Sat, 12 June 2021, 23:06:06
More DCS  :D
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Seoulcialite on Fri, 18 June 2021, 08:16:13
A classic is a classic, always. I am not sure about DCS worth paying the same price as GMK's, though.

Unfortunately, that's probably an opinion shared by most. I, for one, value them pretty equally.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: huey on Fri, 18 June 2021, 08:51:39
A classic is a classic, always. I am not sure about DCS worth paying the same price as GMK's, though.

I wholeheartedly doubt, with what ever kitting is arranged, a GMK set currently would have better value.

No one interested in using Cherry legends like DCS Sleeper?  They look really nice.

I am certainly not going to going to do that. I understand that people have qualms with the typeface and general legending(there are certainly something that I think can be improved) of DCS, but I think everything has to be Helvetica(-ish)/GMK.

I'd be interested depending on how much SP GB sets are going for these days. Haven't seen one in forever.

Hoping to provide some decent value here.

I'm personally not at all interested in that.

Understandable, have a good day.

Yeah, can we at least get a render of this with Cherry legends :D

No.  ;D

A classic is a classic, always. I am not sure about DCS worth paying the same price as GMK's, though.

Unfortunately, that's probably an opinion shared by most. I, for one, value them pretty equally.

Agreed. Adding to that, I doubt GMKs per key value to be better than most of SPs production. Maybe not SA.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: ideus on Fri, 18 June 2021, 09:08:07
A classic is a classic, always. I am not sure about DCS worth paying the same price as GMK's, though.

Unfortunately, that's probably an opinion shared by most. I, for one, value them pretty equally.


Depending on pricing and vendor's shipping costs—out of ConUS' has been insane, lately—this set may worth considering. Its colorway is second to none. Like Dolch and 9009, this combination is a true classic.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Poesjuh on Fri, 18 June 2021, 14:38:44
I would have no problem paying the same price for a nice dcs kit as I would for the same gmk kit.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: iinko_mk on Fri, 18 June 2021, 14:47:45
looks like the homing keys on the numpad 5 are mislabeled.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: azzipa on Fri, 18 June 2021, 14:54:26
any chance of adding two 1.5u "Super" keys and one more 1u "Alt" for those of us using macos and 7u space bars? i know there are many of us who do not like the forced windows kitting. could be in an extension kit even though this option is less preferred. while i'm at it, i'll also lobby for R1 "=" key in numpad (it replaces the idiotic num lock key and makes perfect sense when working on a spreadsheet). no biggie if none of this is possible, but i thought it was worth asking (and if these are missing then it's an insta-pass for me, in case any one cares... plenty of options)

glwic :thumb:

same info submitted via ic form
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Mcnos on Fri, 18 June 2021, 19:03:51
Yes
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Fnzzy on Fri, 18 June 2021, 19:21:35
I'm personally not at all interested in that.

Understandable, have a good day.

In reply to the Cherry legends. This is what I actually think.

thanks sick project.

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: ideus on Sat, 19 June 2021, 18:23:50
I'm personally not at all interested in that.

Understandable, have a good day.

In reply to the Cherry legends. This is what I actually think.

thanks sick project.


I am a bit bored of Cherry legends. I would join this group just for the No-Cherry-legends, please keep the SP's Wyse style ones.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: HappyB0T on Sun, 20 June 2021, 00:02:06
This looks great. Sign me up!
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: gminso on Wed, 23 June 2021, 21:34:57
more colored accents plz
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Minahctrl on Thu, 24 June 2021, 02:41:09
WTB
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: pixelpusher on Wed, 30 June 2021, 16:30:22
more colored accents plz

Yeep.  Please please please give us something close to TU2 in accents.  It looks stellar with honeywell.  Perhaps BBQ?  Or yellow would look stunning as well.  YBP or YCF.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: hekt1k on Wed, 30 June 2021, 18:06:00
more colored accents plz

Yeep.  Please please please give us something close to TU2 in accents.  It looks stellar with honeywell.  Perhaps BBQ?  Or yellow would look stunning as well.  YBP or YCF.

I'd also be down for some RGBY kits
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: honorless on Wed, 30 June 2021, 22:06:07
I love Honeywell-inspired colorways.
But I also love 40% boards.

Will you consider adding at least R2 1.75u Backspace, R3 1.5u Enter and R3 1.25u Tab to your base kit?
Something like DCS Delftware would be even nicer; it also has R2 1u Esc and R3 1u Code so I could at least avoid using Pg Up/Dn legends on columnar stagger boards. (Adding a second R3 1u key—something like Meta, Enter, or even Tab—would be sublime, but numpad + is at least a less-ugly legend than any of the Pg keys.)

full disclosure, i submitted a request for small-board support in your IC form a while back. But I might as well say it publicly, too.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Bushhawk on Fri, 09 July 2021, 14:15:08
Neato!

Since 10U space bar is in it already, can we get BAE as well? ;)
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: mcmcmc on Sat, 14 August 2021, 00:08:25
yes
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: HappyB0T on Sun, 15 August 2021, 11:42:09
It is great to see solid colorways being represented in DCS. Please make this happen!
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 15 August 2021, 12:27:43
the biggest reason to buy DCS these days is no cherry legends

helps break up the "every keyset looks the same" problem we've been running into the last year or two
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: dallman5 on Fri, 20 August 2021, 00:02:44
interested, but only if you move the tab icon over to be in line with the text. the misalignment of the text and icon looks so bad imo
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Friendship on Wed, 22 September 2021, 09:34:55
ahh this looks awesome especially with the dcs font. looking forward to this!
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 22 September 2021, 12:13:13
interested, but only if you move the tab icon over to be in line with the text. the misalignment of the text and icon looks so bad imo

hamburger tab >>
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Surefoot on Wed, 22 September 2021, 13:17:04
SP DCS, with the classy font, and that fantastic colorway.. That's a must have.
Wish there was another SA run too by the way.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: _rubik on Wed, 22 September 2021, 16:33:39
DCS has me feeling some kind of way. I'm tentatively in


        |<----
Tab                 gang
        ---->|

Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: question Mark on Wed, 22 September 2021, 20:33:19
Will "Nipple" be pad-printed?
Btw, in the render it's missing and the kitting shows the barred 5 key with the "Nipple" print.
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 22 September 2021, 22:03:14
Will "Nipple" be pad-printed?
Btw, in the render it's missing and the kitting shows the barred 5 key with the "Nipple" print.

that just means it'll have a nubbin instead of a bar
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: Gimbal on Fri, 24 September 2021, 06:32:44
How about some international support like NORDE?  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] DCS Honeywell
Post by: ideus on Fri, 24 September 2021, 08:27:18
How about some international support like NORDE?  :thumb:


I have not seen a DCS set with Norde support. Can SP produce international legends?