Success rate of swapping switches?

[fl0w3n]

So I'm considering getting in on the GB for the Clear switches, and then swapping my Filco I just got with Blacks for the Clears. 

I've never swapped switches before.  I'm fairly confident in my skills at learning something, and if you guys can do it with just basic Radioshack tools I think I can too.  I'm pretty handy, and I've repaired pins on CPU sockets before, so I know I'm good for small scale steady hand work. 

However, if there's a decent risk for me to ruin the Filco PCB or botch a number of the Clear switches I get, this may deter me...

I'd use the $11 Radioshack desoldering iron; http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062731
Which it seems would make it easier/quicker for me.  Resoldering, I have an iron but I don't know if the tip is small enough.  I'm up for suggestions on that as well, or I'd just get a Hako from Fry's. 

What can go wrong in the process?  I'd assume the resoldering is the riskier part? 


Right now I have my DK1087 apart to the PCB/Plate, and am studying it...definitely a lot of desoldering, but that was to be expected.

I'm trying to take apart a switch right now, but can't seem to get it...

Based off this image, I see what needs to be done:
http://i.imgur.com/1P6km.jpg

It looks like the base is what is soldered to the PCB, unless I'm seeing it wrong and I can't open the switch up because I haven't desoldered it yet? 

[WRXChris]

There is risk involved in both desoldering and resoldering.  When desoldering, If you don't remove all of the solder and try to force the switch out, you risk tearing the traces on the pcb (the wires) that complete the circuit.  When resoldering, if you leave the iron on the joint too long you risk melting the pcb and damaging it.

The risks, however, are minimal.  I had minimal desoldering experience and did a full filco ergo-clear swap in a few hours and had zero problems.  Filco uses RoHS compliant solder which is tougher to desolder than lead-based solder, but is still manageable with cheap Radio Shack equipment.  I use a 45-watt Weller iron when resoldering which is overkill for small PCB work, but I've managed to never even kill an LED when soldering, and they are much more sensitive to heat than Cherry Switches.  So again, just be careful if you're using a hot iron not to leave it on the joint for too long when soldering to prevent melting damage to the PCB, which could result in damage to the traces.

One thing I would advise though, is after you resolder the switches on, check to make sure they are all flushly mounted to the plate.  Sometimes the clips that hold them to the plate are a bit loose and the switches end up not sitting directly on the plate which will put stress on the solder joint and make the switch feel like it's pcb mounted.  It's an easy fix, just heat the joints up and press on the problem switch so that it seats properly, and hold it in place until the solder solidifies.

Good luck!

EDIT: btw, that is the desoldering iron I used for mine, and it works quite well.  Just be sure to leave it on the joint for a couple of seconds before sucking or you risk only sucking half the solder out, and it's quite difficult to melt the remaining solder.  When this happened to me, I would re-fill the joint with fresh solder before trying again.  Also, if I were you I would grab an extra tip or 2; the one that came with mine melted halfway through the job.  The replacement tip seemed to be holding up fine when I finished, so the first tip was probably just a lemon which can be expected at this price point.

[fl0w3n]

There is risk involved in both desoldering and resoldering.  When desoldering, If you don't remove all of the solder and try to force the switch out, you risk tearing the traces on the pcb (the wires) that complete the circuit.  When resoldering, if you leave the iron on the joint too long you risk melting the pcb and damaging it.

The risks, however, are minimal.  I had minimal desoldering experience and did a full filco ergo-clear swap in a few hours and had zero problems.  Filco uses RoHS compliant solder which is tougher to desolder than lead-based solder, but is still manageable with cheap Radio Shack equipment.  I use a 45-watt Weller iron when resoldering which is overkill for small PCB work, but I've managed to never even kill an LED when soldering, and they are much more sensitive to heat than Cherry Switches.  So again, just be careful if you're using a hot iron not to leave it on the joint for too long when soldering to prevent melting damage to the PCB, which could result in damage to the traces.

One thing I would advise though, is after you resolder the switches on, check to make sure they are all flushly mounted to the plate.  Sometimes the clips that hold them to the plate are a bit loose and the switches end up not sitting directly on the plate which will put stress on the solder joint and make the switch feel like it's pcb mounted.  It's an easy fix, just heat the joints up and press on the problem switch so that it seats properly, and hold it in place until the solder solidifies.

Good luck!

This sounds fairly reasonable and within my capabilities. 

Can you confirm that it is indeed the reason I cannot open the switch, because I have not desoldered?  (idk why that sentence decided to come out Yoda style)

Do you just use flux core solder?  On large scale items, I sometimes have a hard time getting my solder just perfect, is it relatively easy soldering the switch back to the PCB so that it has just the right amount? 

I think before this, I need to actually try out clears...that would suck to swap the entire board and then realize that I don't like clears lol. 

Thanks for the help. 

[alaricljs]

Definitely try clears first.  I thought I'd like clears coming from browns, but I was wrong.  They are too firm for me.

You can't open a switch that is in a plate unless it's a special plate like the Phantom with cutouts for the clasps that hold the 2 housing halves together.

[WRXChris]

I use .032" 60/40 lead rosin-core solder and am happy with the way my work turns out, but I wouldn't use anything thicker than that.  A bit thinner would probably be ideal.  RoHS stuff is a PITA to desolder so I still stick to the nasty stuff!

oh and see my ninja edit in my first reply!

[fl0w3n]

Definitely try clears first.  I thought I'd like clears coming from browns, but I was wrong.  They are too firm for me.

You can't open a switch that is in a plate unless it's a special plate like the Phantom with cutouts for the clasps that hold the 2 housing halves together.

I'm coming from Blacks, not liking Reds for being too light, not liking Blues for being too loud/light, and I've never tried Browns. 

I think I was over on DT and saw that some one had made a switch sample kit, and that there was one where it was free to just pass it around...may see if I can get that.

Then again, it's relatively cheap to just grab the switches I need in the GB, swap just a few on, and see how I like it...right? 

[alaricljs]

Switch-tries usually take a looong time to make their way around to you.  And yeah, you can grab a set of switches, throw in some spares to "play" with and sell on the unused set if you end up not liking them.

[fl0w3n]

Definitely try clears first.  I thought I'd like clears coming from browns, but I was wrong.  They are too firm for me.

You can't open a switch that is in a plate unless it's a special plate like the Phantom with cutouts for the clasps that hold the 2 housing halves together.

While I'm there and have everything disassembled, could I modify the plate with cutouts for the clasps?  I've got a drill press in the garage...

I use .032" 60/40 lead rosin-core solder and am happy with the way my work turns out, but I wouldn't use anything thicker than that.  A bit thinner would probably be ideal.  RoHS stuff is a PITA to desolder so I still stick to the nasty stuff!

oh and see my ninja edit in my first reply!

Saw the ninja edit, I'll be sure to pickup some spares.  Thanks for the tip.  (no pun intended)

Any reason you didn't go a bit thinner?  Was the .032" a first guess, and you're just burning through the roll before getting a new one, or what you just had laying around? 

I've got solder/soldering iron, but I'll probably just pickup some new supplies just for this so I can be accurate and clean. 

Switch-tries usually take a looong time to make their way around to you.  And yeah, you can grab a set of switches, throw in some spares to "play" with and sell on the unused set if you end up not liking them.

Ah, bummer.  I'd love to try some of the Topres and other rare switches in there, I suppose that shouldn't stop me from eventually signing up...

I put myself down for 100 switches, I don't know why I didn't just do like 90, or 107...might switch that and save a few bucks.  But, that way I can try a few and still sell a boards worth. 

[TheProfosist]

It pretty simple process as stated by others. I use .22 solder the kind witb 2% silver you can get it at radio shack.

[fl0w3n]

It pretty simple process as stated by others. I use .22 solder the kind witb 2% silver you can get it at radio shack.

What iron do you use? 

[TheProfosist]

Hakko 888 and for desoldering a edysn soldapult as i cant afford a pump desoldering iron at the moment.

[fl0w3n]

Hakko 888 and for desoldering a edysn soldapult as i cant afford a pump desoldering iron at the moment.

Do I need something that expensive for the iron, or can I get by with something a little cheaper as long as it's the right wattage and tip size? 

[TheProfosist]

As long as it the right wattage and has the right size tip you shou be fine but i would say if you pln on doing this alot that solder station is a good investment.

[WhiteFireDragon]

fl0w3n, you can get by with something cheaper. I'm using a Weller WLC100 for the iron/station, and Kester-44 63/37 rosin core solder in size 0.020". That soldering station is only about half the price of the hakko and will be just fine for this job. The rosin-core solder is pretty expensive though, but it's the highest quality solder. I bought a 1lb spool of it for around $50 out the door, I can probably sell a small portion of it to you so you don't have to invest that much in good solder. Just shoot me a PM if you're ever interested.

[alaricljs]

Much like WFD, I have a WLC100, and use .020 63/37 solder (not kester).  I use an ST1 tip for most PCB work that's not SMD.  The solder I have was $25/lb +ship and works fine, got it from Mouser.  I've used Kester in the past and find no obvious difference.

[Sifo]

I'm using a WLC100 as well, works great.

[modulor]

I recently desoldered my Quickfire Rapid to do a Ghetto Red mod (and to lube the switches) and the Radioshack Desoldering Iron works wonders.  As mentioned before, the manufactures RoHS solder joints can be a PITA, but this takes care of them no sweat.  I did use desoldering braid in some spots, and at the end because the stock tip on the desolder gun is pretty fragile and broke down about 70 switches in.  They are easily replaceable at about $2 a piece, so I would recommend getting a few ahead of time.  It makes it super fast compared to using wick the whole time.  As for resoldering, I used 62/36/2 silver-bearing rosin core from Radioshack with a WLC100 station (seems to be a pretty popular choice on GH along with the Hakko FX-888).  I recommend just taking your time and be patient while working.  I've used a standard Radioshack iron before with no problems, and as long as you follow proper soldering procedures, you'll be fine even as a novice.  Here are some resources:

http://www.aaroncake.net/electronics/solder.htm
http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/solder.htm
http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk/solderfaq.htm
http://www.instructables.com/id/EHD4UHG1XDEWUSKWVD/?ALLSTEPS

There are tons of videos on youtube as well, plus the community here will help to answer any other questions I'm sure.

[fl0w3n]

Thanks for all the info guys, I may pickup the same one you guys all have.  Hopefully Fry's has it, don't feel like getting it shipped.

Just paid for my switches, so this project is on...

With this non-ROHS solder, do you guys advise against doing this indoors even in a well ventilated area?  I normally do my soldering in the garage on the workbench, but it's not setup to really be comfortable for the amount of time I'll spend soldering...I'd probably be standing the whole time. 

Also, any word on if I can modify my Plate in my Filco so that it's got cutouts for making future switch swapping a non-soldering affair? 

If I'm picturing it right, I should be able to drill 2 tiny notches on each switch hole so that the clips have a space to pass through? 

[The_Beast]

I just did a stem swap, I bent two the the leafs to where the stem wouldn't come back up. However I just bent the lefts back to where they should be and the two switches in question are just fine now


^___^

[fl0w3n]

I just did a stem swap, I bent two the the leafs to where the stem wouldn't come back up. However I just bent the lefts back to where they should be and the two switches in question are just fine now


^___^

How'd you manage to bend them?

I think that's another question I have...

After I unsolder, I can remove the PCB and the switches will all be stuck in the plate, correct? 

Then do I have to pop the switch out of the plate, then open/swap internals?
Or do I remove PCB, keep switches in plate, swap internals while keeping base in plate?

I'm getting PCB mounted switches so I'll either have to trim all the bases or swap with the bases I have (rather do this instead of trimming)

[alaricljs]

Fastest way to bend a leave is to not realize you have the top housing rotated 180 and shove the 2 halves together.

You need to remove the switch from the plate to take it apart.  It's a snap to swap internals after that, hold it the right way as you disassemble and you can get all the internals on either housing.

There are 4 locations on each plate hole that would need to be cut.  I don't know if you can do that with a drill press without killing a whole herd of bits.  It should be a small enough bit that it will wander, not to mention you are only using 1 side of the bit.  There's probably specialty bits for this sort of thing though.