Post by: mashby on Wed, 14 January 2015, 08:31:00
So what would you call this form factor? 20%? :confused:
Source: TUAW (http://www.tuaw.com/2015/01/13/look-at-this-tiny-ios-keyboard-just-look-at-it/?ncid=rss_truncated)
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 14 January 2015, 08:35:56
PS: this looks really cool 8)
Post by: Oobly on Wed, 14 January 2015, 08:47:34
Interesting concept, seems like it uses 2 "switches" per "panel", no idea what kind of sensing they're using. Also, what kind of communication / connection is there between the components? Looks like only 2 contacts that I can see...
(http://news.siamphone.com/upload/news/nw20771/3.jpg)
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 14 January 2015, 08:50:30
Ouch, what a pain to navigate their website. Guess we have to wait until March to see if this ends up being a real product or not.
Interesting concept, seems like it uses 2 "switches" per "panel", no idea what kind of sensing they're using. Also, what kind of communication / connection is there between the components? Looks like only 2 contacts that I can see...Show Image(http://news.siamphone.com/upload/news/nw20771/3.jpg)
I didn't have any issues with the website and I'll be an early adopter and let you guys know how it works.
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 14 January 2015, 08:59:58
Ouch, what a pain to navigate their website. Guess we have to wait until March to see if this ends up being a real product or not.
Interesting concept, seems like it uses 2 "switches" per "panel", no idea what kind of sensing they're using. Also, what kind of communication / connection is there between the components? Looks like only 2 contacts that I can see...Show Image(http://news.siamphone.com/upload/news/nw20771/3.jpg)
I didn't have any issues with the website and I'll be an early adopter and let you guys know how it works.
So my investment in you paid off, I see. :D
Post by: spiceBar on Wed, 14 January 2015, 09:18:20
Ouch, what a pain to navigate their website. Guess we have to wait until March to see if this ends up being a real product or not.
Interesting concept, seems like it uses 2 "switches" per "panel", no idea what kind of sensing they're using. Also, what kind of communication / connection is there between the components? Looks like only 2 contacts that I can see...Show Image(http://news.siamphone.com/upload/news/nw20771/3.jpg)
Looks like it's the same kind of capacitive sensing than on touchscreens. The technology is cheap enough now.
The keyboard senses which key is pressed, and on which part of the key the finger is.
And look... It's a SpaceFN keyboard (kind of)! :)
Post by: FrostyToast on Wed, 14 January 2015, 09:21:41
Post by: spiceBar on Wed, 14 January 2015, 09:44:29
They should be there on March 20.
We will see...
Post by: heedpantsnow on Wed, 14 January 2015, 09:48:13
Post by: heedpantsnow on Wed, 14 January 2015, 09:52:25
Post by: islisis on Wed, 14 January 2015, 11:43:32
Nice. Let's copy the design, put in mechanical switches and laugh!
I hope we do, where I would like to see capacitive surfaces used is on mod keys and mice buttons to provide relief from long switch holds
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=64258.msg1530094#msg1530094
Post by: daerid on Wed, 14 January 2015, 13:11:24
Post by: Oobly on Wed, 14 January 2015, 13:58:35
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 14 January 2015, 14:30:44
The very slight key surface indication and use of a single button each for the separate columns on pinky and index finger – and for the rows in each column – seems like it would be a pretty big pain, causing lots of mistakes. I suspect that people with large hands are going to have a lot of difficulty with this thing.
Split matrix layout with less distance between rows is a good idea though.
I think if they were willing to take up ~30-50% more area with this keyboard, they could make it much less error-prone and more flexible, by slightly shifting the columns so the home row lined up with neutral finger positions, splitting separate keys, adding an extra couple thumb keys. Ideally a split portable keyboard like this would support 20°+ of tenting instead of lying flat on the table.
Dude in the demo video should get his palms up off the table.
Post by: Data on Wed, 14 January 2015, 14:37:58
Brilliant web design.
WTB: a set of ear drums, gently used
Post by: heedpantsnow on Wed, 14 January 2015, 15:09:53
It's on this page, under "Computing Power": https://waytools.com/store/showroom/info/textblade/tablet
BTW their home page crashes my browser. Niiiiice.
Post by: obra on Wed, 14 January 2015, 15:57:01
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 14 January 2015, 16:03:09
Just placed an order. Slightly bait-and-switchy by hiding that they ship in march until after they have my card.I believe one of the pages of the website was a time line showing that.
But they could have given that info during checkout and before payment.
Post by: spiceBar on Wed, 14 January 2015, 17:32:33
Overall neat concept.
The very slight key surface indication and use of a single button each for the separate columns on pinky and index finger – and for the rows in each column – seems like it would be a pretty big pain, causing lots of mistakes. I suspect that people with large hands are going to have a lot of difficulty with this thing.
Split matrix layout with less distance between rows is a good idea though.
I think if they were willing to take up ~30-50% more area with this keyboard, they could make it much less error-prone and more flexible, by slightly shifting the columns so the home row lined up with neutral finger positions, splitting separate keys, adding an extra couple thumb keys. Ideally a split portable keyboard like this would support 20°+ of tenting instead of lying flat on the table.
Dude in the demo video should get his palms up off the table.
Maybe you should try it first. :)
Actually what you say makes sense, but I'm struck by the number of ideas they have got right.
It just makes our keyboards look prehistoric.
It uses the thumb for two important modifiers (Command and Symbols). The modifier in both cases is the space bar. Shift is only used for Caps as far as I can tell.
Now we have to wait and see. There are maybe (probably) a few fatal flaws in this first version (the lack of an Alt key comes to mind, even if it has not been designed for PCs or Macs), but it's the first time I see an actual product that may cause a disruption in the keyboard industry. Maybe it will just flop, but I believe it has some chances.
Post by: spiceBar on Wed, 14 January 2015, 17:39:19
Just placed an order. Slightly bait-and-switchy by hiding that they ship in march until after they have my card.
It's not hidden at all...
One of the pages of the slideshow displays a calendar with production dates, already sold out dates and so on.
The page appears automatically if you let the slideshow run, or you can go directly to this page by clicking one of the tabs in the bottom bar. The tab is called "Availability" and it's the fifth tab starting from the left.
I find it natural that it's not the first thing they say. They present the product first, what else?
I knew well before I ordered that I would not get the product before mid-March.
Post by: daerid on Wed, 14 January 2015, 17:48:25
It's not hidden at all...
One of the pages of the slideshow displays a calendar with production dates, already sold out dates and so on.
The page appears automatically if you let the slideshow run, or you can go directly to this page by clicking one of the tabs in the bottom bar. The tab is called "Availability" and it's the fifth tab starting from the left.
I find it natural that it's not the first thing they say. They present the product first, what else?
I knew well before I ordered that I would not get the product before mid-March.
^^ This. Any time you get a flashy site like this, it's worth it to spend a few extra minutes grokking things before jumping in.
Post by: spiceBar on Wed, 14 January 2015, 17:52:06
It's not hidden at all...
One of the pages of the slideshow displays a calendar with production dates, already sold out dates and so on.
The page appears automatically if you let the slideshow run, or you can go directly to this page by clicking one of the tabs in the bottom bar. The tab is called "Availability" and it's the fifth tab starting from the left.
I find it natural that it's not the first thing they say. They present the product first, what else?
I knew well before I ordered that I would not get the product before mid-March.
^^ This. Any time you get a flashy site like this, it's worth it to spend a few extra minutes grokking things before jumping in.
I even checked them out in the whois database. :)
Post by: Nai_Calus on Wed, 14 January 2015, 18:05:25
Although, it's also one of those things that might be absolutely awful in practice.
Post by: spiceBar on Wed, 14 January 2015, 18:22:10
This actually looks really cool.
Although, it's also one of those things that might be absolutely awful in practice.
In approximately 2 months, a few of us will tell you. :)
Post by: derezzed on Wed, 14 January 2015, 18:30:18
Post by: Nai_Calus on Wed, 14 January 2015, 18:30:47
This actually looks really cool.
Although, it's also one of those things that might be absolutely awful in practice.
In approximately 2 months, a few of us will tell you. :)
We thank you for your sacrifice. ;) If it's any good I'll have to get one. The bluetooth keyboard I used to use for my phone for a while had awful chiclet keys and was too big to be practical, and while Swype is amazing you still can't operate it by touch. :P
Post by: derezzed on Wed, 14 January 2015, 18:35:51
There's a vote on Massdrop about it right now; maybe it'll get offered for cheaper than the $100. That's a bit much for me to just try something out.
They offer a 6-pack for $495
https://waytools.com/store/showroom/info/sixpack/tablet (https://waytools.com/store/showroom/info/sixpack/tablet)
I love how their marketing video plays automatically at maximum volume as soon as you load the page.
Brilliant web design.
WTB: a set of ear drums, gently used
Their web design is lacking. They have images occluding scroll bars.
Post by: heedpantsnow on Wed, 14 January 2015, 18:38:59
There's a vote on Massdrop about it right now; maybe it'll get offered for cheaper than the $100. That's a bit much for me to just try something out.
They offer a 6-pack for $495
https://waytools.com/store/showroom/info/sixpack/tablet (https://waytools.com/store/showroom/info/sixpack/tablet)
Well we got six of us right here, huh? $83 each, give or take.
Post by: islisis on Wed, 14 January 2015, 19:17:58
Split matrix layout with less distance between rows is a good idea though.
Agreed, this concept could never work with a staggered layout, if the standard typing proficiency acquisition time is as short as I am reading then hopefully the attention this product is bringing will change other manufacturers' minds about ergonomics.
I think your ideas are good, and that this device could benefit from a fifth switch column for modifiers, and split thumb switches to determine left/right presses while both thumbs are resting on the keys. Being able to use the surface as a trackpad would also work well in this design.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 14 January 2015, 19:42:33
Still have to factor in second shipping and packing.There's a vote on Massdrop about it right now; maybe it'll get offered for cheaper than the $100. That's a bit much for me to just try something out.
They offer a 6-pack for $495
https://waytools.com/store/showroom/info/sixpack/tablet (https://waytools.com/store/showroom/info/sixpack/tablet)
Well we got six of us right here, huh? $83 each, give or take.
And not sure how warranty would transfer.
Personally I bought a few of the add ons also.
Post by: heedpantsnow on Wed, 14 January 2015, 19:44:25
Still have to factor in second shipping and packing.There's a vote on Massdrop about it right now; maybe it'll get offered for cheaper than the $100. That's a bit much for me to just try something out.
They offer a 6-pack for $495
https://waytools.com/store/showroom/info/sixpack/tablet (https://waytools.com/store/showroom/info/sixpack/tablet)
Well we got six of us right here, huh? $83 each, give or take.
Wrong. You guys come to my house. We drink beer and espresso and then you drive home with your keyboards. Simple!
Post by: derezzed on Wed, 14 January 2015, 19:54:10
It's so perfectly miniature.
[attachimg=1]
Post by: Valen on Wed, 14 January 2015, 21:03:52
Post by: ShriekBob on Thu, 15 January 2015, 08:46:48
I've emailed them too to ask a few questions, specifically, I noticed that it appears to have a command key, does that work as the command key on a mac. I've also asked them how many devices it can pair to, and if there is any plans to have a mod that will include alt, ctrl, and function. I'm interested in the concept of a pocketable keyboard that I can use everywhere.
Post by: berserkfan on Thu, 15 January 2015, 13:13:06
I'm sold enough to give it a try.
I've emailed them too to ask a few questions, specifically, I noticed that it appears to have a command key, does that work as the command key on a mac. I've also asked them how many devices it can pair to, and if there is any plans to have a mod that will include alt, ctrl, and function. I'm interested in the concept of a pocketable keyboard that I can use everywhere.
Matias has a one handed half keyboard that's pretty small. Not enough to fit a pocket, but it's a good start.
Another thing you could try is to grab an xkeys or some other programmable numpad with 20 or more keys and make your own mini keyboard using the Matias layout as a starting point.
Post by: daerid on Thu, 15 January 2015, 14:41:54
Matias has a one handed half keyboard that's pretty small. Not enough to fit a pocket, but it's a good start.
Another thing you could try is to grab an xkeys or some other programmable numpad with 20 or more keys and make your own mini keyboard using the Matias layout as a starting point.
It's also ridiculously expensive: $595 USD
Post by: Lunatique on Fri, 16 January 2015, 02:34:35
Post by: islisis on Fri, 16 January 2015, 05:30:14
The only way it could be accelerated is through an issuing of a modular system to OEMs like the Cherry one. Without greater exposure in the wild there won't be a precedence to help market technology like this to normal consumers. Otherwise, if they fail to meet the economies of scale the rights-holders will be just taking up IP space (or worse, get bought up by apple and lock the possibilities within one ecosystem).
[edit: i think i was looking for a word which didn't exist >_< thanks jac...]
Post by: spiceBar on Fri, 16 January 2015, 06:43:27
I'm totally intrigued by the TextBlade too, but I can't help and think if I'm going to carry it around in my pocket so I can type on it anywhere, I'd want to be able to type with it even when there isn't a flat surface to put it on. Imagine if you are in your car and an email or text arrived and you want to reply immediately, or you're walking down the street, or in a park, or anywhere that doesn't have a flat surface for you to place the TextBlade on.
For shorts typing sessions (answering a text message or email), you have the on-screen keyboard.
For longer typing sessions, it is assumed you will find a suitable surface. I think it's a reasonable assumption. If you are going to spend 30 minutes typing, investing 2 minutes finding a place with a flat surface is not too much overhead.
I'm pretty sure people will get inventive with this, for example using the tablet's carrying case as a surface to type on.
Naturally if they improve their design so the TextBlade can be rigid, that will be even better.
They have already nailed a number of good ideas in the current design, and it looks like future versions will be even more interesting.
But they have to start somewhere, and this first version already has a lot for it. On paper at least...
Post by: BucklingSpring on Fri, 16 January 2015, 11:38:24
Someone got to show this to Cherry : Hey Cherry, wanna see something really creative?
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 16 January 2015, 13:08:49
It's a good point. It's clear that many carnations await the rise of capacitive-mechanical hybrid keycaps.Carnations?
Post by: ezrahilyer on Fri, 16 January 2015, 13:31:48
If we did get together to order 6 packs we can save a few bucks, I'm in if someone wants to organize that, otherwise i am just going to order 1 for myself.
I love the idea
Post by: Lunatique on Fri, 16 January 2015, 14:47:39
I'm totally intrigued by the TextBlade too, but I can't help and think if I'm going to carry it around in my pocket so I can type on it anywhere, I'd want to be able to type with it even when there isn't a flat surface to put it on. Imagine if you are in your car and an email or text arrived and you want to reply immediately, or you're walking down the street, or in a park, or anywhere that doesn't have a flat surface for you to place the TextBlade on.
For shorts typing sessions (answering a text message or email), you have the on-screen keyboard.
For longer typing sessions, it is assumed you will find a suitable surface. I think it's a reasonable assumption. If you are going to spend 30 minutes typing, investing 2 minutes finding a place with a flat surface is not too much overhead.
I'm pretty sure people will get inventive with this, for example using the tablet's carrying case as a surface to type on.
Naturally if they improve their design so the TextBlade can be rigid, that will be even better.
They have already nailed a number of good ideas in the current design, and it looks like future versions will be even more interesting.
But they have to start somewhere, and this first version already has a lot for it. On paper at least...
I was just thinking about how someone could modify the design so it can be typed without being placed on a flat surface.
You mentioned making it rigid, and that's of course the first step.
After that, imagine if we placed rotating rings under the keyboard, one on each side, for our thumbs (similar to the iRing/Bunker Ring idea--which I use on my Galaxy Note 3 and love). And if we can have the two pieces of the keyboard angled in a more steep V shape, it could be fairly comfortable to type on, even if you're just standing there with your hands in front of your tummy or chest. You just need to place your phone/tablet on something so you can see the screen (I use the iRing as a kickstand, and it works very well most of the time).
The rotating rings under the keyboard can be angled/rotated, so they can be adjusted to be tighter/looser depending on the size of the person's thumb or the angle he's holding the keyboard at.
Post by: spiceBar on Fri, 16 January 2015, 18:58:44
I'm totally intrigued by the TextBlade too, but I can't help and think if I'm going to carry it around in my pocket so I can type on it anywhere, I'd want to be able to type with it even when there isn't a flat surface to put it on. Imagine if you are in your car and an email or text arrived and you want to reply immediately, or you're walking down the street, or in a park, or anywhere that doesn't have a flat surface for you to place the TextBlade on.
For shorts typing sessions (answering a text message or email), you have the on-screen keyboard.
For longer typing sessions, it is assumed you will find a suitable surface. I think it's a reasonable assumption. If you are going to spend 30 minutes typing, investing 2 minutes finding a place with a flat surface is not too much overhead.
I'm pretty sure people will get inventive with this, for example using the tablet's carrying case as a surface to type on.
Naturally if they improve their design so the TextBlade can be rigid, that will be even better.
They have already nailed a number of good ideas in the current design, and it looks like future versions will be even more interesting.
But they have to start somewhere, and this first version already has a lot for it. On paper at least...
I was just thinking about how someone could modify the design so it can be typed without being placed on a flat surface.
You mentioned making it rigid, and that's of course the first step.
After that, imagine if we placed rotating rings under the keyboard, one on each side, for our thumbs (similar to the iRing/Bunker Ring idea--which I use on my Galaxy Note 3 and love). And if we can have the two pieces of the keyboard angled in a more steep V shape, it could be fairly comfortable to type on, even if you're just standing there with your hands in front of your tummy or chest. You just need to place your phone/tablet on something so you can see the screen (I use the iRing as a kickstand, and it works very well most of the time).
The rotating rings under the keyboard can be angled/rotated, so they can be adjusted to be tighter/looser depending on the size of the person's thumb or the angle he's holding the keyboard at.
Yes.
Or the two halves of the keyboard should just be functional without having to be connected (technically it's possible), and each would get half of the space bar. This way all you need is to be able to rest your hands on each half, and you can type.
Type on your armchair, with your arms relaxed. Type when sitting with one half on each of your thighs... Many configurations become usable.
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 16 January 2015, 19:02:07
I'm totally intrigued by the TextBlade too, but I can't help and think if I'm going to carry it around in my pocket so I can type on it anywhere, I'd want to be able to type with it even when there isn't a flat surface to put it on. Imagine if you are in your car and an email or text arrived and you want to reply immediately, or you're walking down the street, or in a park, or anywhere that doesn't have a flat surface for you to place the TextBlade on.
For shorts typing sessions (answering a text message or email), you have the on-screen keyboard.
For longer typing sessions, it is assumed you will find a suitable surface. I think it's a reasonable assumption. If you are going to spend 30 minutes typing, investing 2 minutes finding a place with a flat surface is not too much overhead.
I'm pretty sure people will get inventive with this, for example using the tablet's carrying case as a surface to type on.
Naturally if they improve their design so the TextBlade can be rigid, that will be even better.
They have already nailed a number of good ideas in the current design, and it looks like future versions will be even more interesting.
But they have to start somewhere, and this first version already has a lot for it. On paper at least...
I was just thinking about how someone could modify the design so it can be typed without being placed on a flat surface.
You mentioned making it rigid, and that's of course the first step.
After that, imagine if we placed rotating rings under the keyboard, one on each side, for our thumbs (similar to the iRing/Bunker Ring idea--which I use on my Galaxy Note 3 and love). And if we can have the two pieces of the keyboard angled in a more steep V shape, it could be fairly comfortable to type on, even if you're just standing there with your hands in front of your tummy or chest. You just need to place your phone/tablet on something so you can see the screen (I use the iRing as a kickstand, and it works very well most of the time).
The rotating rings under the keyboard can be angled/rotated, so they can be adjusted to be tighter/looser depending on the size of the person's thumb or the angle he's holding the keyboard at.
Yes.
Or the two halves of the keyboard should just be functional without having to be connected (technically it's possible), and each would get half of the space bar. This way all you need is to be able to rest your hands on each half, and you can type.
Type on your armchair, with your arms relaxed. Type when sitting with one half on each of your thighs... Many configurations become usable.
Sitting in your easy chair, typing with each hand resting on the arm of the chair and the keyboard halves at the end.
Yes, that would truly be input nirvana, amirite?
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 16 January 2015, 19:14:19
...............
Off topic: it would be a lot easier to skim through this conversation if every message didn’t quote the entire thread. :)
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 16 January 2015, 19:50:58
...............
Off topic: it would be a lot easier to skim through this conversation if every message didn�t quote the entire thread. :)
It's also really hard to edit quotes when you're on a mobile browser. Blame technology.
Post by: daerid on Fri, 16 January 2015, 20:18:36
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 16 January 2015, 20:39:04
I've always felt that this forum gets too crazy with quoting. I like it when forums only quote 1 or two levels deep. Make things much more readable.
I agree. I wish this forum were like that. Sometimes you need to quote the previous poster, but if you're on mobile, it's near impossible to edit out all the previous posts successfully.
Post by: Evo_Spec on Fri, 16 January 2015, 20:56:39
MoreI've always felt that this forum gets too crazy with quoting. I like it when forums only quote 1 or two levels deep. Make things much more readable.
I agree. I wish this forum were like that. Sometimes you need to quote the previous poster, but if you're on mobile, it's near impossible to edit out all the previous posts successfully.
That's why i try to use the [/more] when i can, although it didn't really make sense in this case but you get what i mean lol
But yeah that doesn't help tapatalk/mobile users....
Post by: Lunatique on Sat, 17 January 2015, 01:36:48
Yes.
Or the two halves of the keyboard should just be functional without having to be connected (technically it's possible), and each would get half of the space bar. This way all you need is to be able to rest your hands on each half, and you can type.
Type on your armchair, with your arms relaxed. Type when sitting with one half on each of your thighs... Many configurations become usable.
Okay, I just posted a link to this thread at the TextBlade forum, so its creator(s) can take a look at our discussion and maybe implement it in the next iteration of the product, or develop it as an add-on accessory.
Post by: Input Nirvana on Thu, 29 January 2015, 00:17:39
1) Sitting in your easy chair, typing with each hand resting on the arm of the chair and the keyboard halves at the end.
2) Yes, that would truly be input nirvana, amirite?
1) Yes
2) Yes
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 29 January 2015, 00:23:58
1) Sitting in your easy chair, typing with each hand resting on the arm of the chair and the keyboard halves at the end.
2) Yes, that would truly be input nirvana, amirite?
1) Yes
2) Yes
Senpai noticed me.
p(*＾-＾*)q
Post by: Input Nirvana on Thu, 29 January 2015, 00:32:19
I just wanna hug you, Grasshopper :)
<NOTE> No wall of text. That should make someone very happy. I sure hope it does, gonna see him at GH Meerup in 2 days.
Post by: Ramuq on Thu, 29 January 2015, 03:50:35
Post by: islisis on Sat, 31 January 2015, 23:22:32
(http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server2100/27510/products/72/images/3033/VM4RW__09213.1411553043.480.480.JPG?c=2)
On an unrelated note, the more I think about it the more useful position-sensitive keycaps could become. Another example would be a phone case keyboard, with the main layer consisting of a single actuating mechanism per thumb, and tactile grooves representing standard alphanumeric keys. For a lot of areas, I see this technology potentially solving the problem of one finger accidentally pressing down two keys at once, without sacrificing the basic haptics of full-size mechanical entry. In this case we allow ourselves to hit all of them at once and simply register the most probable one. It's like using analog logic to augment and solve a digital problem (..no pun intended). It's cheap, compact, light and could be sculpted into a variety of different shapes.
The keys will be the tactility of the grooves, uniformity of activation across the surface, and freedom from lawsuits.
Post by: sypl on Sat, 21 February 2015, 04:57:36
As always though, this will will and die on how the keys feel. I'm pretty sure we'll know within 10 minutes of someone getting hold of one of these whether they're any good or not.
Post by: mashby on Sat, 21 February 2015, 17:22:06
Post by: daerid on Sat, 21 February 2015, 17:25:43
got a few more weeks to go
Post by: ezrahilyer on Sat, 21 February 2015, 18:42:30
Post by: spiceBar on Sun, 22 February 2015, 00:49:12
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/2Hr13Sa.png)
got a few more weeks to go
My estimated delivery date is March 16, but I would not be surprised that you receive yours first due to spotty postal service here.
But who knows... This internet page could be totally fake, and nothing is actually being built! :)
Post by: pnutster on Thu, 05 March 2015, 23:49:44
In all seriousness, this is going to be so good for travelling.
One thing that I was wondering about, the armrest remarks, I think all components need to be hooked up to the spacebar (the battery part) for it to work? So separating them on armrest will not work I think. Would be nice though!
Post by: derezzed on Fri, 06 March 2015, 00:57:08
Couldn't resist. Ordered one, a sucker for matrix layout and just trying to get a smaller footprint than my honking Kinesis Advantage ;) This one should do the trick.
In all seriousness, this is going to be so good for travelling.
One thing that I was wondering about, the armrest remarks, I think all components need to be hooked up to the spacebar (the battery part) for it to work? So separating them on armrest will not work I think. Would be nice though!
I think your assessment of the necessity to keep the parts together to function is correct. I really hope the TextBlade is legit. I really want one but there's no way I'm shelling out $100 for a product that is still vapor at this time. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof.
Post by: tetraslash on Fri, 06 March 2015, 01:28:29
Post by: spiceBar on Fri, 06 March 2015, 12:59:07
I guess everyone's delivery date is going to be delayed, because it looks like they are modifying one of their molds.
On the order status page, there is a list of the steps they are intending to execute. This includes "Building TextBlade", "QA at the factory", "QA in California" and some other steps.
"Building TextBlade" has suddenly be broken into a bunch of new items, so the task list now looks like this:
- Received Order (jan 14)
- Processed Order (jan 14)
- Charged credit card (jan 14)
- Emailed confirmation (jan 14)
- Started build of TextBlade order (feb 16)
- Completed NanoCharger (feb 17)
- Completed NanoStand (feb 19)
- Completed KeyBlade PCB (feb 20)
- Completed SpaceBlade PCB (feb 23)
- Completed SpaceBlade base (feb 26)
- Started Butterfly mold upgrade (march 1)
- Completed KeyBlade base (march 3)
- Butterfly mold upgrade in progress (march 6) <--- they are currently working on this
- Validate upgraded Butterfly (est march 14)
- Complete final assembly (est march 21)
- QA TextBlade in factory (est march 22)
- QA TextBlade in California (est march 28)
- Pack order in California (est apr 3)
- Ship via FedEx priority (est apr 3)
In the process, the shipping date has slipped by more than 2 weeks...
Let me guess... They have realized they had a design error on the case's plastic mold, or maybe the factory has made a mistake and some hole in the PCB is not where it should be, so they have decided to throw away the first molded cases and to design a new one because that's less expensive than throwing away the defective PCBs? OK, that's just speculation.
Post by: pnutster on Fri, 06 March 2015, 13:04:10
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 06 March 2015, 13:06:46
Post by: mashby on Fri, 06 March 2015, 13:20:30
https://forum.waytools.com/t/order-estimates-slip-a-week-no-updates-from-waytools/187
I thought he handled the negativity pretty well, but I'm glad I'm not in his shoes.
Clearly no one in that thread has backed a Kickstarter before. I know this wasn't a Kickstarter backed program, but a few weeks, or even a month delay is nothing on a device that isn't on the market already is nothing.
Post by: Justintoxicated on Fri, 06 March 2015, 13:27:50
I'm totally intrigued by the TextBlade too, but I can't help and think if I'm going to carry it around in my pocket so I can type on it anywhere, I'd want to be able to type with it even when there isn't a flat surface to put it on. Imagine if you are in your car and an email or text arrived and you want to reply immediately, or you're walking down the street, or in a park, or anywhere that doesn't have a flat surface for you to place the TextBlade on.
Thats what swype is for duh :)
Post by: beestingza on Fri, 06 March 2015, 13:45:25
Overall neat concept.
The very slight key surface indication and use of a single button each for the separate columns on pinky and index finger – and for the rows in each column – seems like it would be a pretty big pain, causing lots of mistakes. I suspect that people with large hands are going to have a lot of difficulty with this thing.
That's what I thought also. However I can see that the rationale was that the buttons would be too small otherwise. I expect it will all boil down to whether the haptics/tactility are at least as good as a chicklet keyboard, and whether the software is smart enough to eliminate errors.
Quote
I think if they were willing to take up ~30-50% more area with this keyboard, they could make it much less error-prone and more flexible, by slightly shifting the columns so the home row lined up with neutral finger positions, splitting separate keys, adding an extra couple thumb keys. Ideally a split portable keyboard like this would support 20°+ of tenting instead of lying flat on the table.
This is very true also. I never liked any of the reduced footprint laptop keyboards that came down the pike in the 90's
Quote
Dude in the demo video should get his palms up off the table.
Your last comment was the only one I didn't automatically agree with. Don't you think that since the keyboard is already so close to the table surface that resting your palms wouldn't be an issue? I see that the fastest typists always adopt a floating hand position, but seems so fatiguing to me.
Post by: Neo.X on Fri, 06 March 2015, 13:56:21
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 06 March 2015, 17:28:32
Dude in the demo video should get his palms up off the table.
Your last comment was the only one I didn't automatically agree with. Don't you think that since the keyboard is already so close to the table surface that resting your palms wouldn't be an issue? I see that the fastest typists always adopt a floating hand position, but seems so fatiguing to me.
If it’s fatiguing that means (a) your keyboard is probably placed and/or oriented inconveniently and as a result (b) your arms are being held further out away from your body than you want them to be, forcing your shoulders and back muscles to do a lot of work. If you notice any of your muscles under a high static load, then you should change something about your position. If your upper arms are hanging down loosely at your sides with your back straight and your shoulders back in a comfortable relaxed position, your biceps should be able to support your forearms with a like 70–110° elbow angle for hours at a time, especially if you take occasional breaks, as you should especially be doing if you work while sitting. If you really need to rest on something, I also know people who have had good success just resting their elbows on armrests or their forearms on those moving forearm rests. As always, YMMV. Do what works for you. (I’m not a doctor or physical therapist or ergonomics researcher, just some guy on the internet who has read and thought a lot about the subject.)
When you type you want your wrists to be as neutral as possible. People typing on a laptop keyboard or a full-size separate keyboard with a wrist rest (where in both cases the palms end up elevated to about the height of the keys) still usually have their wrists extended at a 10–25° angle. This not only substantially reduces finger agility, but it’s also quite unhealthy to do for extended periods of time with repetitive finger motions, leading to tendonitis, carpal tunnel syndrome, etc. It’s still better than typing on a tall keyboard with wrists resting on the table, as many people do, but that’s a very low bar.
Post by: ander on Sat, 07 March 2015, 00:17:38
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sat, 07 March 2015, 06:39:22
Barbie and Ken will definitely want these.No they wouldn't, it's not pink.
Post by: Oobly on Sat, 07 March 2015, 07:25:13
Dude in the demo video should get his palms up off the table.Your last comment was the only one I didn't automatically agree with. Don't you think that since the keyboard is already so close to the table surface that resting your palms wouldn't be an issue? I see that the fastest typists always adopt a floating hand position, but seems so fatiguing to me.
If it’s fatiguing that means (a) your keyboard is probably placed and/or oriented inconveniently and as a result (b) your arms are being held further out away from your body than you want them to be, forcing your shoulders and back muscles to do a lot of work. If you notice any of your muscles under a high static load, then you should change something about your position. If your upper arms are hanging down loosely at your sides with your back straight and your shoulders back in a comfortable relaxed position, your biceps should be able to support your forearms with a like 70–110° elbow angle for hours at a time, especially if you take occasional breaks, as you should especially be doing if you work while sitting. If you really need to rest on something, I also know people who have had good success just resting their elbows on armrests or their forearms on those moving forearm rests. As always, YMMV. Do what works for you. (I’m not a doctor or physical therapist or ergonomics researcher, just some guy on the internet who has read and thought a lot about the subject.)
When you type you want your wrists to be as neutral as possible. People typing on a laptop keyboard or a full-size separate keyboard with a wrist rest (where in both cases the palms end up elevated to about the height of the keys) still usually have their wrists extended at a 10–25° angle. This not only substantially reduces finger agility, but it’s also quite unhealthy to do for extended periods of time with repetitive finger motions, leading to tendonitis, carpal tunnel syndrome, etc. It’s still better than typing on a tall keyboard with wrists resting on the table, as many people do, but that’s a very low bar.
Not to mention that with your wrists anchoring your hands you can't involve your upper arms in helping type, leading to fatigue / muscle strain of your fingers / wrists / forearms.
Post by: Altis on Sat, 07 March 2015, 08:49:48
Post by: metalliqaz on Sat, 07 March 2015, 08:56:34
Post by: FoC_Tow on Sat, 07 March 2015, 10:05:34
I'm also considering to order one to try it, so looks a lot like the wallet hack is expanding to mobile devices now... Great :thumb:
Post by: metalliqaz on Sat, 07 March 2015, 13:05:53
Also I notice they charge extra for the remapping app, unless you preorder. I don't like the sound of that.
Post by: derezzed on Sat, 07 March 2015, 14:47:25
Post by: ander on Sat, 07 March 2015, 15:21:02
Barbie and Ken will definitely want these.No they wouldn't, it's not pink.
Okay, '90s Barbie wouldn't want one.
BTW, if any of you are trying to improve your image with the babes, you should probably steer clear of this kind of thing, at least in public.
Post by: spiceBar on Sat, 07 March 2015, 17:35:46
...
BTW, if any of you are trying to improve your image with the babes, you should probably steer clear of this kind of thing, at least in public.
Thanks, I was eagerly waiting for an expert's advice. :rolleyes:
Post by: beestingza on Sat, 07 March 2015, 18:29:50
When you type you want your wrists to be as neutral as possible. People typing on a laptop keyboard or a full-size separate keyboard with a wrist rest (where in both cases the palms end up elevated to about the height of the keys) still usually have their wrists extended at a 10–25° angle. This not only substantially reduces finger agility, but it’s also quite unhealthy to do for extended periods of time with repetitive finger motions, leading to tendonitis, carpal tunnel syndrome, etc. It’s still better than typing on a tall keyboard with wrists resting on the table, as many people do, but that’s a very low bar.
I think I got you now. Hopefully this is why I have trouble breaking 50 wpm. :))
Thanks for the insight.
Post by: Huxley2500 on Sat, 07 March 2015, 21:20:43
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 08 March 2015, 22:01:24
http://www.macrumors.com/2015/03/06/hands-on-with-the-textblade-keyboard/
Post by: daerid on Sun, 08 March 2015, 22:08:21
Review:
http://www.macrumors.com/2015/03/06/hands-on-with-the-textblade-keyboard/
That's actually reassuring. Looking forward to receiving mine in April
Post by: heedpantsnow on Sun, 08 March 2015, 22:15:57
Post by: Canut on Mon, 09 March 2015, 04:36:19
Yeah, interesting that they quote stuff like 2mm of travel and 55g actuation. Makes it seem like they almost understand sth about keyboards.
The info on Mac Rumors does sound encouraging.
As does stuff like:
"...an app [...] to remap keys, create macros... and more."
"[...] over-the-air updates to keep firmware up to date [...]The TextBlade will have more functions six months after it's released than it does today."
Bring on the GH reviews!
Post by: Oobly on Mon, 09 March 2015, 04:57:40
"Each component of the TextBlade has a built-in computer chip to power the MultiKey and MultiLayer features. The computer chips are networked and connected by magnets, which is what allows the TextBlade to function without any cords or circuits that bridge the different pieces together.
Rare earth magnets are built into every key of the TextBlade and all of the magnets perform different functions, from allowing the pieces of the TextBlade to snap easily together to charging to facilitating communication between each piece. There are 23 magnets in the space bar alone, for example."
So it somehow uses magnets for sensing, charging and inter-chip communication?
Post by: daerid on Mon, 09 March 2015, 11:04:32
Post by: metalliqaz on Mon, 09 March 2015, 11:13:38
Post by: sypl on Mon, 09 March 2015, 13:29:46
Post by: metalliqaz on Mon, 09 March 2015, 13:31:06
Looks like MacRumors got paiiiiiiiiiid! Blatant!
It's MacRumors.
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 09 March 2015, 14:03:31
metalliqaz has the right idea though. The separate parts obviously have little gold contacts that get snapped into alignment with magnets.
Post by: suicidal_orange on Mon, 09 March 2015, 14:04:02
I'm tempted, but as my netbook won't rotate I'm not allowed to view the store :confused:
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 09 March 2015, 14:05:33
there really doesn't seem to be much to dislikeFrom what we can see so far, I think they’ve done an admirable job considering their size constraints.
I just personally think they could do quite a bit better functionally if they were willing to make it twice as big.
Post by: nova779 on Mon, 09 March 2015, 14:28:11
Post by: derezzed on Mon, 09 March 2015, 23:46:32
[attach=1]
Post by: metalliqaz on Mon, 09 March 2015, 23:48:00
This is a pretty neat idea but adapting the whole new size and layout seems really difficult and almost not practical. I'll just carry my poker everywhere and annoy everyone as always.True geekhacker
Post by: Oobly on Tue, 10 March 2015, 06:42:08
They’ve filed a bunch of patents if someone wants to go do the research to figure out how these things work.
metalliqaz has the right idea though. The separate parts obviously have little gold contacts that get snapped into alignment with magnets.
Here's the clearest picture I can find of the edges of the parts where they connect:
(http://www.androidheadlines.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Textblade-3-730x351.jpg)
Looks like only 2 contacts per side that connect to the "spacebar" and another 2 between the sides, unless I'm missing something. That makes it possible (just) to use single wire signalling to communicate between each side and the main unit (2 power connections to main unit, 2 power connections between units, 1 communication line to each unit).
Post by: vivalarevolución on Tue, 10 March 2015, 07:04:22
Post by: spiceBar on Tue, 10 March 2015, 08:23:57
They’ve filed a bunch of patents if someone wants to go do the research to figure out how these things work.
metalliqaz has the right idea though. The separate parts obviously have little gold contacts that get snapped into alignment with magnets.
Here's the clearest picture I can find of the edges of the parts where they connect:Show Image(http://www.androidheadlines.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Textblade-3-730x351.jpg)
Looks like only 2 contacts per side that connect to the "spacebar" and another 2 between the sides, unless I'm missing something. That makes it possible (just) to use single wire signalling to communicate between each side and the main unit (2 power connections to main unit, 2 power connections between units, 1 communication line to each unit).
Power could run as a loop with (+) from space unit to left unit, then to right unit, then back to space unit to (-).
That leaves more pins for signaling, but they probably need one-way serial lines anyway. Left unit to space unit (1 pin) and right unit to space unit (1 pin). In this case, only one contact from left unit to right unit would be needed (power), so there's maybe something more, or one of the magnets to attach the left unit to the right unit is not used for signaling, it's just there for better stability.
Post by: heedpantsnow on Tue, 10 March 2015, 08:55:28
Post by: metalliqaz on Tue, 10 March 2015, 20:23:05
Post by: Razor Lotus on Tue, 10 March 2015, 20:35:56
http://kee4.com/
Post by: smferris on Fri, 13 March 2015, 20:21:16
It'll also get me something new to play with while I'm waiting for the Axios and keyboard.io to go into production. :)
Post by: ypsilon.takai on Sat, 14 March 2015, 07:04:38
They’ve filed a bunch of patents if someone wants to go do the research to figure out how these things work.
metalliqaz has the right idea though. The separate parts obviously have little gold contacts that get snapped into alignment with magnets.
Here's the clearest picture I can find of the edges of the parts where they connect:Show Image(http://www.androidheadlines.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Textblade-3-730x351.jpg)
Looks like only 2 contacts per side that connect to the "spacebar" and another 2 between the sides, unless I'm missing something. That makes it possible (just) to use single wire signalling to communicate between each side and the main unit (2 power connections to main unit, 2 power connections between units, 1 communication line to each unit).
Power could run as a loop with (+) from space unit to left unit, then to right unit, then back to space unit to (-).
That leaves more pins for signaling, but they probably need one-way serial lines anyway. Left unit to space unit (1 pin) and right unit to space unit (1 pin). In this case, only one contact from left unit to right unit would be needed (power), so there's maybe something more, or one of the magnets to attach the left unit to the right unit is not used for signaling, it's just there for better stability.
In one of their patent document (US patent 8,896,539) which we can view on their site, we can see the description about communication between a spacebar blade and two keyboard blades.
"In addition to forming the power path, the magnetic interconnection also forms the signaling path by which data is passed from each key array to the spacebar 106 for transmission to a recipient device. By electronically disconnecting power, the same path may momentarily be used to transmit data back and forth, without additional connections. This data may include keyboard array data, such as key press events and the values associated therewith for interpretation by a processor (not shown in this figure) within the spacebar. "
The two cotacts on the battery blade (106) and one keyboard blade are used for both power supply and signaling. But not like telephone line, they time-share the connection. Charge a capacitor in tha keyborad blade at first period, then transfer uplink and downlink data at following two periods, according to following descriptino on the patent document.
Post by: spiceBar on Sun, 15 March 2015, 01:50:16
They’ve filed a bunch of patents if someone wants to go do the research to figure out how these things work.
metalliqaz has the right idea though. The separate parts obviously have little gold contacts that get snapped into alignment with magnets.
Here's the clearest picture I can find of the edges of the parts where they connect:Show Image(http://www.androidheadlines.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Textblade-3-730x351.jpg)
Looks like only 2 contacts per side that connect to the "spacebar" and another 2 between the sides, unless I'm missing something. That makes it possible (just) to use single wire signalling to communicate between each side and the main unit (2 power connections to main unit, 2 power connections between units, 1 communication line to each unit).
Power could run as a loop with (+) from space unit to left unit, then to right unit, then back to space unit to (-).
That leaves more pins for signaling, but they probably need one-way serial lines anyway. Left unit to space unit (1 pin) and right unit to space unit (1 pin). In this case, only one contact from left unit to right unit would be needed (power), so there's maybe something more, or one of the magnets to attach the left unit to the right unit is not used for signaling, it's just there for better stability.
In one of their patent document (US patent 8,896,539) which we can view on their site, we can see the description about communication between a spacebar blade and two keyboard blades.
"In addition to forming the power path, the magnetic interconnection also forms the signaling path by which data is passed from each key array to the spacebar 106 for transmission to a recipient device. By electronically disconnecting power, the same path may momentarily be used to transmit data back and forth, without additional connections. This data may include keyboard array data, such as key press events and the values associated therewith for interpretation by a processor (not shown in this figure) within the spacebar. "
The two cotacts on the battery blade (106) and one keyboard blade are used for both power supply and signaling. But not like telephone line, they time-share the connection. Charge a capacitor in tha keyborad blade at first period, then transfer uplink and downlink data at following two periods, according to following descriptino on the patent document.
OK... Why not. They must have a really good reason to do that, because it increases the complexity of the electronics just to save one electrical contact per side.
Or they don't have any good reason to do it, but they have figured out that nobody has ever got a patent on using the power path for signaling. As mobile devices become increasingly dominant, they know that somebody will need to do this some day. This is typically a patent you would expect to be owned, or at least used, by Apple. By patenting this AND using it in their devices, they create a potential source of royalties down the road.
I guess it's not too far fetched to imagine that Apple could use the technology for a smart cover that doubles as a keyboard. The iPad's smart cover already uses magnets to attach to the iPad, and having just two contacts to manage both power and signaling could be advantageous.
Maybe I'm going too far, but we see so many strange tactics in the technology sector... :)
Thanks for digging out the info. That's interesting.
Post by: metalliqaz on Sun, 15 March 2015, 21:38:06
Not really in the same size class but they have done a good job with their surface keyboards so this will probably be a superior typing experience for the same price.
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 15 March 2015, 22:26:15
Microsoft's new portable keyboard: [...]There’s a thread over here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69498
Post by: BurgerBum on Sun, 15 March 2015, 23:30:48
*staring blankly, dumbfounded*
im not saying ipads are dumb. they have their place.
that place is not school. school is the place for super cheap laptops/notebooks with linux distros on them. (also the chromebook already has a keyboard.... *shrug* )
i have an issue with most chicklet keys, software controlled multi-key=1key kinda setups and the whole idea of a keybaord in your pocket NOT getting screwed up eventually. (also, magnets... dont want that neer my phone, so now if i had this 3 of my two pockets are taken up, i dont wanna need to carry around my purse anymore. T^T )
anyway, looks cool, i wouldnt buy it just because i have this gut feeling its gonna crash and burn like alot of kickstarter projects. *shrugs* oh well.
neat idea tho. :D
Post by: ThatRusty on Mon, 16 March 2015, 00:02:25
Post by: Tiramisuu on Mon, 16 March 2015, 06:27:27
That said, if this is a quality build then it is a must have for any geek on the planet. The concept is brilliant. Execution to be determined.
Post by: spiceBar on Mon, 16 March 2015, 08:08:16
they're people who believe an ipad is a good item a student can use for education............
*staring blankly, dumbfounded*
im not saying ipads are dumb. they have their place.
that place is not school. school is the place for super cheap laptops/notebooks with linux distros on them. (also the chromebook already has a keyboard.... *shrug* )
i have an issue with most chicklet keys, software controlled multi-key=1key kinda setups and the whole idea of a keybaord in your pocket NOT getting screwed up eventually. (also, magnets... dont want that neer my phone, so now if i had this 3 of my two pockets are taken up, i dont wanna need to carry around my purse anymore. T^T )
anyway, looks cool, i wouldnt buy it just because i have this gut feeling its gonna crash and burn like alot of kickstarter projects. *shrugs* oh well.
neat idea tho. :D
What is the rational reason for not wanting a magnet near your phone? You fear it will erase its internal DOS 3.2 boot floppy disk?
Post by: daerid on Mon, 16 March 2015, 10:22:59
Post by: pnutster on Mon, 16 March 2015, 10:30:52
Post by: spiceBar on Mon, 16 March 2015, 18:14:18
Phones haven't used any kind of magnetic storage medium since... well.... um..... never?
Yes and get this: there are sometimes several strong magnets inside the phone itself! :)
I think this is still related to this fear of erasing a hard drive with a magnet, which is actually impossible (or you would have to use a magnet so powerful it would actually be dangerous for you as well).
A good reason for not putting the phone and the TextBlade in the same pocket is that you could scratch the back of the phone with the folded keyboard. Maybe you could not even scratch the screen itself, but the back of the phone, certainly.
For this reason I put my phone in a front pocket where it is alone. My other front pocket is for my wallet, coins, and a very small (foldable) ball pen. I can see the TextBlade going to the wallet's pocket. Or maybe in my shirt's pocket.
Post by: Oobly on Tue, 17 March 2015, 04:36:35
The only components I can see being affected / damaged by magnets would be any sensors that use Hall effect (definitely compass sensor, possibly some accelerometer or gyroscope sensors) or use magnetism for detecting if a cover is open / closed or stylus is docked, etc.
A moving magnet can induce current / interference, but probably not enough to damage anything. I would still be just a little wary of really strong magnets right up close to my phone, purely due to possible compass sensor errors / calibration.
Post by: pnutster on Tue, 17 March 2015, 09:21:40
Post by: daerid on Wed, 18 March 2015, 16:35:48
Post by: spiceBar on Thu, 19 March 2015, 21:29:18
Post by: spiceBar on Tue, 24 March 2015, 00:09:54
I don't see the malicious intent in the first post in this thread:
https://forum.waytools.com/t/order-delayed-four-times-now-no-explanation-provided-on-blog-twitter-etc/295
I just see a frustrated customer with a little bit of exaggeration on his/her part. Not a post that deserves to be treated as they did.
I'm cross-posting from here to there and back so the WayTool employee posting in the forum can check that I am real and that I am a genuine keyboard enthusiast with no agenda, just in case.
It must be very stressing for them at this time, and it shows.
I trust they are doing their best anyway and that the product will be great.
Post by: Oobly on Tue, 24 March 2015, 02:23:36
While I find this product interesting, I won't be purchasing one, at least until I've seen some GHer reviews :) It just doesn't fit my own use cases that well (mostly I need a portable keyboard when traveling and using my lap for a surface).
They do seem to have really put some thought into the layout and design, though and I wish them best of luck with it. It's rare that a company puts so much thought into a keyboard design.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 24 March 2015, 06:32:00
I just noticed on their forum that paranoia seems to be building up in both the customers and... Waytools or at least in someone at Waytools.
I don't see the malicious intent in the first post in this thread:
https://forum.waytools.com/t/order-delayed-four-times-now-no-explanation-provided-on-blog-twitter-etc/295 (https://forum.waytools.com/t/order-delayed-four-times-now-no-explanation-provided-on-blog-twitter-etc/295)
I just see a frustrated customer with a little bit of exaggeration on his/her part. Not a post that deserves to be treated as they did.
I'm cross-posting from here to there and back so the WayTool employee posting in the forum can check that I am real and that I am a genuine keyboard enthusiast with no agenda, just in case.
It must be very stressing for them at this time, and it shows.
I trust they are doing their best anyway and that the product will be great.
I think they are being overly defensive because they seem to think everyone questioning what is going on is some shill for what I can only assume is another product out there? I haven't read much in their forums lately but maybe they have a competitor who they are trying to beat to the punch.
Post by: heedpantsnow on Thu, 26 March 2015, 10:56:57
Post by: spiceBar on Thu, 26 March 2015, 11:19:06
I just noticed on their forum that paranoia seems to be building up in both the customers and... Waytools or at least in someone at Waytools.
I don't see the malicious intent in the first post in this thread:
https://forum.waytools.com/t/order-delayed-four-times-now-no-explanation-provided-on-blog-twitter-etc/295 (https://forum.waytools.com/t/order-delayed-four-times-now-no-explanation-provided-on-blog-twitter-etc/295)
I just see a frustrated customer with a little bit of exaggeration on his/her part. Not a post that deserves to be treated as they did.
I'm cross-posting from here to there and back so the WayTool employee posting in the forum can check that I am real and that I am a genuine keyboard enthusiast with no agenda, just in case.
It must be very stressing for them at this time, and it shows.
I trust they are doing their best anyway and that the product will be great.
I think they are being overly defensive because they seem to think everyone questioning what is going on is some shill for what I can only assume is another product out there? I haven't read much in their forums lately but maybe they have a competitor who they are trying to beat to the punch.
As far as I know, no, there isn't any competition for the TextBlade.
From the thread where I have posted, the guy seems to imagine that a keyboard manufacturer or reseller with lots of stock is afraid of the TextBlade and would try to FUD away WayTools customers.
I think this guy has paranoid tendencies, only made worse by the stress.
Depending on who he is, in the hierarchy, this can mean serious issues going forward for the company. This is why I'm trying to learn who he is.
Post by: metalliqaz on Thu, 26 March 2015, 11:45:53
Wait until the users have them in hand and start complaining about breakage, connectivity problems, and the like. Given its size and the software integration that has to happen for it to work right, there's plenty that can go wrong. Imagine the mood in the forums then! If they find any success they will probably very quickly realize that they need a dedicated community manager.
My prediction? The product will ship a few months late, the first batch will work but have issues, and they will really get things settled around August. The product probably won't make the splash they hope it will, and will be mostly forgotten like those cool-looking-but-not-practical projection keyboards.
I truly hope I'm wrong. It really looks like a cool little gadget. However, the way that they featured the product in macrumors, and will take orders on the website without making it clear that it's a preorder really worries me. I'm not holding my breath.
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 26 March 2015, 16:02:23
My prediction? The product will ship a few months late, the first batch will work but have issues, and they will really get things settled around August. The product probably won't make the splash they hope it will, and will be mostly forgotten like those cool-looking-but-not-practical projection keyboards.Luckily, this prediction works for every new non-standard keyboard design, without even knowing anything about the specifics. Even the “successful” ones like the Fingerworks Touchstream or the DataHand basically fit this pattern if you look back at them from a decade or two later.
Still, I think the TextBlade could be a nice little device for many people who otherwise would be stuck typing on a phone screen, because it’s small enough they can carry it without noticing the extra size/weight.
I suspect their company probably has between 3 and 8 employees. The guy taking care of the forums is probably just the same guy that they hired to run the website. Honestly, that would explain his bizarre communication style. The company is going through it's most difficult phase right now and he's probably really feeling the stress.I’m guessing the guy is a hardware engineer. And yeah, he’s probably under crazy stress with too many things to do every day.
Post by: ctm on Thu, 26 March 2015, 16:24:15
Post by: Yearl75 on Sun, 29 March 2015, 09:17:28
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/2Hr13Sa.png)
got a few more weeks to go
My estimated delivery date is March 16, but I would not be surprised that you receive yours first due to spotty postal service here.
But who knows... This internet page could be totally fake, and nothing is actually being built! :)
I too have placed an order for a TextBlade, only for the delivery date to shift month on month since my original order was placed back in February. It is not the end of March and I was expecting my TextBlade to be delivered on the 5th April. I recently checked my order status only to find that my delivery date has been shifted to the end of May.
I just wondered if yours arrived on the 24th March as per your posted screen shot.
If you could let me know I would be much obliged.
Post by: spiceBar on Sun, 29 March 2015, 11:37:32
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/2Hr13Sa.png)
got a few more weeks to go
My estimated delivery date is March 16, but I would not be surprised that you receive yours first due to spotty postal service here.
But who knows... This internet page could be totally fake, and nothing is actually being built! :)
I too have placed an order for a TextBlade, only for the delivery date to shift month on month since my original order was placed back in February. It is not the end of March and I was expecting my TextBlade to be delivered on the 5th April. I recently checked my order status only to find that my delivery date has been shifted to the end of May.
I just wondered if yours arrived on the 24th March as per your posted screen shot.
If you could let me know I would be much obliged.
They are still building their production line, so no TextBlade has been shipped yet.
They have shown prototypes to the public, that were probably hand-built, and the event has been taped. You can find it on their site:
https://waytools.com/hands-on
From what I can see, the TextBlade is real and has been in test for a long time (it looks that they have started prototyping it 3 years ago).
There is an explanation on their web site about the delay, which comes from the fact that they have adopted a new robotic manufacturing process for a key mechanical part:
https://waytools.com/threads/blog/robotic-butterfly-mold
My order shipping date has been pushed back to April 30th.
I expect more delays and would be surprised to receive my units (I have ordered 2) before June.
Don't hold your breath, do something else, enjoy life. My bet is that this will be a very interesting product anyway.
Post by: daerid on Sun, 29 March 2015, 13:32:30
Post by: Tiramisuu on Sun, 29 March 2015, 16:57:46
Post by: ideus on Sun, 29 March 2015, 17:02:35
I'm waiting for some reviews. That it can do anything/everything and it will arrive any day now response when combined with the asberger type responses on their forum don't create huge chunks of confidence in their ability to deliver. The ideas seem super cool but the responses and behavoiurs are borderline autistic.
Autistic conveys the idea on the difficulty they have to answer; but, it may be offensive for the people that have someone with the illness at home.
Post by: Tiramisuu on Sun, 29 March 2015, 19:13:10
The thing could be revolutionary. That said the datahand could have been revolutionary. This is far more approachable from a price perspective than the datahand but it does have the potential to change peoples perspectives. Steno is a better solution but than colemak or dvorak but the idea of the textblade is approachable, relatively low learning curve and has a couple of compelling use cases in a currently hot market.
At some point I will make the transition to steno and give up on half measures but till then this seems very interesting.
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 29 March 2015, 19:22:19
Post by: Tiramisuu on Sun, 29 March 2015, 19:27:04
Post by: metalliqaz on Sun, 29 March 2015, 19:50:58
Post by: ideus on Sun, 29 March 2015, 20:35:02
Post by: Huxley2500 on Sun, 29 March 2015, 20:41:55
I'm waiting for some reviews. That it can do anything/everything and it will arrive any day now response when combined with the asberger type responses on their forum don't create huge chunks of confidence in their ability to deliver. The ideas seem super cool but the responses and behavoiurs are borderline autistic.
I'm waiting for some reviews. That it can do anything/everything and it will arrive any day now response when combined with the asberger type responses on their forum don't create huge chunks of confidence in their ability to deliver. The ideas seem super cool but the responses and behavoiurs are borderline autistic.
I'm waiting for some reviews. That it can do anything/everything and it will arrive any day now response when combined with the asberger type responses on their forum don't create huge chunks of confidence in their ability to deliver. The ideas seem super cool but the responses and behavoiurs are borderline autistic.
Fkn magnets, how do they work?
Post by: daerid on Wed, 20 May 2015, 01:20:30
Post by: derezzed on Wed, 20 May 2015, 09:25:21
Totally forgot about my order until tonight. Just checked it an it's supposed to ship in the next week or so, sweet
Don't hold your breath. They've had delays, due to retooling production and QA issues. The accuracy of their estimate tool is in question. You should be getting an email from them before your order is ready to ship, asking you to confirm layout (they are offering Colemak now) and possibly answer more questions which I cannot recall at this time.
Post by: daerid on Wed, 20 May 2015, 10:44:06
Post by: derezzed on Wed, 20 May 2015, 11:52:09
Post by: ___ on Wed, 20 May 2015, 11:54:32
Care to elaborate? I frequent the forums over there and I've never encountered anything but stellar customer relations. He may be a little blunt for some people's likings, but to be fair he's trying to deal with trolls without having to ban them. I find that admirable.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 20 May 2015, 12:05:45
> sometimes horrendous customer relations on the Waytools forums
Care to elaborate? I frequent the forums over there and I've never encountered anything but stellar customer relations. He may be a little blunt for some people's likings, but to be fair he's trying to deal with trolls without having to ban them. I find that admirable.
For a while anyone who questioned anything was accused of being a shill, when all people wanted was a straight answer.
Post by: Lunatique on Wed, 20 May 2015, 15:23:09
Before the bizarre paranoid behavior started, I actually really liked that WayTools rep. He (very likely a he, based on the way he writes) wrote some very intelligent and well-written posts that I enjoyed reading. When he first began accusing people of being corporate shills, I thought, "Hmm, that's interesting. Maybe." But once he started accusing every person who posted negative comments of the same thing, it became worrying, to the point that I wondered about his mental stability (early signs of schizophrenia, maybe?).
Over the years, I've seen many examples of tiny indie developers where the person who did the design, coding, and business operations, was also the same person who acts as the face of the company and communicates with customers in online forums. Some did it really well and actually had personalities that were likable and could remain cool under pressure. Some acted like complete a-holes and couldn't withstand any kind of negative criticism, and would cuss out customers, throw tantrums, threaten to end development, and other bizarre behavior that did irreversible damage to the company and its products. In all those cases, if they simply had let someone else handle public relations and customer service--someone who was actually suited for the task, they would have prevented those problems. But unfortunately, for really tiny developers, they often couldn't afford to hire someone and it's just a one-man bedroom operation.
In WayTools' case, I think they probably can find someone else to take over as the public face of the company, but I suspect the person who's been doing it is likely one of the central personnel in the company--likely the founder, the designer, or engineer, thus feeling like he "should" be the public face because he can field questions from customers with the highest level of authority and expertise. This also explains why there doesn't seem to be a higher authority monitoring his actions and stopping him--he likely IS the higher authority (or at least one of them). But unfortunately, despite being highly intelligent and knowledgeable and passionate, he sucks at handing negative criticism, is overly paranoid, and lacks emotional intelligence in some circumstances.
The fact that he cannot fathom why anyone can be passionate about keyboards, buy and own many keyboards, and would write thousands of words on forums about keyboards unless they are corporate shills, is telling of his lack of emotional intuition about people and about the nature of obsessive hobbies. He knows about communities like GeekHack and Deskthority, and he himself is passionate about keyboards, so why was it so hard for him to understand that for some people, it is simply a passionate hobby and people writing long rants about anything related to keyboard products is perfectly normal. By accusing passionate and vocal customers of being corporate shills, he's alienating the same type of people who are the most passionate about his company's product.
BTW, SpiceBar, did you end up doing that Skype chat with WayTools? If so, what came out of that conversation?
Post by: ___ on Wed, 20 May 2015, 15:56:46
For a while anyone who questioned anything was accused of being a shill, when all people wanted was a straight answer.
He did give straight answers. A lot of the time, the straight answers were: "we don't know. We'll let you know when we do." The response from a startling number of people at that point was to heap abuse onto him for not knowing. I can understand why they would feel that way, but I wouldn't have tolerated half the abuse he did.
I used to believe a company should be completely transparent about their development and manufacturing processes, especially if they're taking pre-orders. After observing the way the waytools pre-orders have gone, I have changed my mind about that completely.
The fact that he cannot fathom why anyone can be passionate about keyboards
That's obviously, demonstrably not true.
Post by: Lunatique on Wed, 20 May 2015, 16:16:51
For a while anyone who questioned anything was accused of being a shill, when all people wanted was a straight answer.
He did give straight answers. A lot of the time, the straight answers were: "we don't know. We'll let you know when we do." The response from a startling number of people at that point was to heap abuse onto him for not knowing. I can understand why they would feel that way, but I wouldn't have tolerated half the abuse he did.
I used to believe a company should be completely transparent about their development and manufacturing processes, especially if they're taking pre-orders. After observing the way the waytools pre-orders have gone, I have changed my mind about that completely.
The key to being a company's public face, is to never get your feathers ruffled, no matter what. That is how a professional public relations person would handle it. While I enjoy seeing the "real" personality behind a company rep instead of someone who is so cool in the face of negativity to almost seem like a well-programmed robot pretending to be human, it doesn't really help the company when he starts to accuse frustrated customers of being corporate shills. Sure, defend the company and the product and explain what's going on, but don't go beyond that and start turning your customers against you.
As for transparency, I think it's a very fine line to walk, and it's a double-edged sword. You have to accept the bad that comes with the good. Lack of transparency has its own pros and cons. Striking the perfect balance is very hard to do, and very few companies do it well, let alone a new company without ample experience behind it and lack the funding needed to have a dedicated public relations/marketing department.
The fact that he cannot fathom why anyone can be passionate about keyboards
That's obviously, demonstrably not true.
Did you read his reply to one of SpiceBar's posts, where he questioned why someone would buy and own many keyboards, and used that as part of the evidence to suggest SpiceBar was a corporate shill planted in his forum to create harm to his company? I couldn't believe my eyes when I read that.
Post by: derezzed on Wed, 20 May 2015, 18:28:38
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 21 May 2015, 02:22:25
He did give straight answers. [...] That's obviously, demonstrably not true.I think you missed the conversation in question, wherein the waytools guy was totally paranoid and spent thousands of words insulting potential customers and questioning their intentions based on their polite and clearly stated questions.
I’m guessing he was just experiencing some stress-related burnout in the middle of an intense job, and lost perspective a bit. Even good people sometimes go crazy when they’re stressed and sleep deprived. Hopefully he has calmed down a bit and sorted his life out a bit in the mean time, and can go back to being a run-of-the-mill slightly-off-putting arrogant engineer, instead of the customer service trainwreck he was for a couple weeks.
Post by: KineticIsEpic on Thu, 21 May 2015, 15:20:45
Post by: Xowie on Thu, 21 May 2015, 17:01:22
Post by: Oobly on Tue, 08 September 2015, 04:30:16
Post by: daerid on Tue, 08 September 2015, 13:55:03
Post by: ideus on Sat, 12 September 2015, 20:35:48
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sat, 12 September 2015, 21:37:26
A venturous geek-hacker and early bird buyer may share his/her experience with the community?
Yeah I was one of the first to order and it still hasn't shipped yet, nothing to share other than they keep delaying.
Really thinking about getting a refund as they've made it clear android support will probably not be done for months after they start shipping, whenever that is.
From there forums here is how progress goes...
Quote
WayTools Team 1d Ago
We've made good progress and the firmware checklist just got shorter.
Several items now checked off. Summary of key areas is now up on order status pages.
Getting close, and the revisions are working out nicely.
Very fun machine. Hard to do. But really cool.
Post by: ideus on Sat, 12 September 2015, 21:52:44
A venturous geek-hacker and early bird buyer may share his/her experience with the community?
Yeah I was one of the first to order and it still hasn't shipped yet, nothing to share other than they keep delaying.
Really thinking about getting a refund as they've made it clear android support will probably not be done for months after they start shipping, whenever that is.
From there forums here is how progress goes...QuoteWayTools Team 1d Ago
We've made good progress and the firmware checklist just got shorter.
Several items now checked off. Summary of key areas is now up on order status pages.
Getting close, and the revisions are working out nicely.
Very fun machine. Hard to do. But really cool.
It does not come as a surprise you were one of the early bird buyers Ray.
Their progress does not seem good though. If you decide to wait, please be sure to make a review, you are one of the pioneering spirits around, and the community is fortunate to count on you.
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 12 September 2015, 22:49:00
Then if they actually manage to ship within a few months of their original estimate, you can be happily surprised, but you won’t be so disappointed in the cases where the ship date slips by a year.
Post by: jd29 on Sat, 12 September 2015, 23:56:26
Post by: ideus on Sat, 12 September 2015, 23:59:29
Post by: vivalarevolución on Wed, 16 September 2015, 22:38:11
He did give straight answers. [...] That's obviously, demonstrably not true.I think you missed the conversation in question, wherein the waytools guy was totally paranoid and spent thousands of words insulting potential customers and questioning their intentions based on their polite and clearly stated questions.
I’m guessing he was just experiencing some stress-related burnout in the middle of an intense job, and lost perspective a bit. Even good people sometimes go crazy when they’re stressed and sleep deprived. Hopefully he has calmed down a bit and sorted his life out a bit in the mean time, and can go back to being a run-of-the-mill slightly-off-putting arrogant engineer, instead of the customer service trainwreck he was for a couple weeks.
This is one of my favorite posts of all time. Thanks.
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 06 February 2016, 16:21:05
Any of the pre-orderers get one? (I didn’t order one, just curious.) It’s been like 10 months since their supposed ship date, and I haven’t heard anything about this thing in at least 3–4 months.
Post by: daerid on Sat, 06 February 2016, 16:39:42
To be clear, I'm more than happy to wait. I have more than enough to keep me busy. And while I definitely disagree with the lack of communication and how poorly WT has handled deadlines, I definitely understand and sympathize with the difficulties of building such and intricate and sensitive piece of hardware, and all the software that goes along with it (tbh I thought their original ship estimate was ludicrous).
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 06 February 2016, 16:42:10
https://capacify.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/textblade-case-study-v2-1.pdf
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sat, 06 February 2016, 16:56:05
Post by: Lunatique on Sat, 06 February 2016, 17:28:41
Yeah... their forum isn’t pretty.
https://capacify.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/textblade-case-study-v2-1.pdf
I wonder why that case study article did not mention the horrible public-relations aspect of WayTools--particularly how the company behaved in its forum. People who complained about the delay would sometimes get their orders cancelled without permission, and sometimes also got accused of being shills from competition. WayTools' public face that was interacting with customers in the forum was some haughty engineer with terrible social skills (bordering on Asperger's at times), who seemed to only pour oil on the fire and only after overwhelming criticism from the people in the forums that WayTools seemed to either have appointed someone else to take over as the public face, or that person finally learned to change his behavior.
Post by: crickclackman on Sat, 06 February 2016, 18:42:27
I requested a refund back in early december.
Probably needs crowdfunding to honor.
Post by: metalliqaz on Sun, 07 February 2016, 10:10:41
Post by: 0100010 on Tue, 09 February 2016, 20:53:12
Post by: FearTheTaswegian on Thu, 07 April 2016, 03:07:24
So still not confirmed vaporware status, or in the hands of any real users huh?
Kind of, I've got one as part of the pre release test group. Arrived a week ago so I'm mostly acclimatized to it now. They aren't shipping regular orders yet but it seems like that will actually happen soon. I say that just based on my experience that it's real and it works well, I don't have any specific insider knowledge of their plan for release timing or what issues they intend to clear before they release.
Very happy with it though, it's pretty amazing what they've achieved with it.
Post by: Rad on Thu, 07 April 2016, 04:23:15
Post by: ander on Thu, 07 April 2016, 05:37:31
:?O
Post by: FearTheTaswegian on Thu, 07 April 2016, 11:15:47
"WayTools builds tools for living, that do more, with less. Less hassle to use, less waste upon the Earth, and less conflict between people."
:?O
Well it certainly is 'less', it's tiny and about 1.5oz
Post by: SpAmRaY on Thu, 07 April 2016, 11:22:18
Did they ever get around to adding android support?"WayTools builds tools for living, that do more, with less. Less hassle to use, less waste upon the Earth, and less conflict between people."
:?O
Well it certainly is 'less', it's tiny and about 1.5oz
Post by: daerid on Thu, 07 April 2016, 16:18:23
So still not confirmed vaporware status, or in the hands of any real users huh?
Kind of, I've got one as part of the pre release test group. Arrived a week ago so I'm mostly acclimatized to it now. They aren't shipping regular orders yet but it seems like that will actually happen soon. I say that just based on my experience that it's real and it works well, I don't have any specific insider knowledge of their plan for release timing or what issues they intend to clear before they release.
Very happy with it though, it's pretty amazing what they've achieved with it.
This is actually quite reassuring, thank you.
Post by: vivalarevolución on Thu, 07 April 2016, 22:26:59
He did give straight answers. [...] That's obviously, demonstrably not true.I think you missed the conversation in question, wherein the waytools guy was totally paranoid and spent thousands of words insulting potential customers and questioning their intentions based on their polite and clearly stated questions.
I’m guessing he was just experiencing some stress-related burnout in the middle of an intense job, and lost perspective a bit. Even good people sometimes go crazy when they’re stressed and sleep deprived. Hopefully he has calmed down a bit and sorted his life out a bit in the mean time, and can go back to being a run-of-the-mill slightly-off-putting arrogant engineer, instead of the customer service trainwreck he was for a couple weeks.
Still gave me a laugh, thanks.
Post by: FearTheTaswegian on Fri, 08 April 2016, 04:29:29
Did they ever get around to adding android support?
Nope. They've always maintained it would arrive a couple of months after general release. That said, the track record for estimating timing has been, ahem, poor.
It will work with Android right now, but if you want to customize layouts, tune settings etc you'd need access to iOS to run the app.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 08 April 2016, 07:13:05
Did they ever get around to adding android support?
Nope. They've always maintained it would arrive a couple of months after general release. That said, the track record for estimating timing has been, ahem, poor.
It will work with Android right now, but if you want to customize layouts, tune settings etc you'd need access to iOS to run the app.
Which makes me thing possibly never.
Glad I got out when I did. I still thinks its cool but they've handled things very poorly.
Post by: FearTheTaswegian on Fri, 08 April 2016, 08:54:11
Which makes me thing possibly never.
Glad I got out when I did. I still thinks its cool but they've handled things very poorly.
I'm certain the Android app will arrive, no way they'd ignore such a large market when the thing is specifically targeted at phone & tablet use. I'm also pretty sure it will take a fair bit longer than the couple of months after general release.
At a blind guess I'd say nearer the end of the year.
Personally now I've experienced it if I was on Android I'd still get one and bug iOS friends occasionally when I need an update or change. Even in just 'static config' it's a great device, but I can completely understand some folk would never want to do that.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 16 January 2017, 13:52:13
Post by: ___ on Mon, 16 January 2017, 13:59:09
Post by: metalliqaz on Tue, 17 January 2017, 20:15:28
They haven't launched yet, much to everyone's dissatisfaction. But it's not vaporware either. Dozens of people have received test units and they regularly post about it on the forum (https://forum.waytools.com/latest). Who knows when they'll decide it's ready to ship.
So, how many years late is it now?
Post by: sems on Wed, 18 January 2017, 13:56:53
Post by: Lunatique on Wed, 18 January 2017, 14:13:19
Even though it's not mechanical I kinda like the idea. I might grab one when it comes out.
I think it qualifies as mechanical? If you want to get that strict, then Topre would not be considered mechanical, yet it is one of the most beloved switch types in the mechanical keyboard community.
Post by: tofgerl on Thu, 19 January 2017, 02:47:41
Post by: ander on Thu, 19 January 2017, 04:15:53
If you want to get that strict, then Topre would not be considered mechanical, yet it is one of the most beloved switch types in the mechanical keyboard community.
If you spend that much for a board, you'd better love it. :?P
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sat, 04 November 2017, 20:36:49
Post by: Altis on Sat, 04 November 2017, 21:09:12
Can't believe this thing still hasn't been released.
Can't believe someone still thinks it will be released.
Post by: Tiramisuu on Sat, 04 November 2017, 21:22:02
Post by: Jico on Tue, 12 December 2017, 22:31:16
On the one hand, they've produced a lot of expensive parts, enough for many hundreds of units (https://capacify.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/textblade-case-study-v2-1.pdf (https://capacify.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/textblade-case-study-v2-1.pdf)). They've also sent out dozens of fully functional prototype units out to testers (the accounts from testers are not consistent with sock puppet accounts run by PR guys... way too varied and not universally glowing), and they've gone to the trouble of iterating 3 major hardware revisions (at least, that's the count I got reading some forum posts).
Yet for all of this expenditure, they're not really hitting the gas on any kind of marketing push. Instead, they keep describing production problems in detail. If I were going to make some really impressive prototypes then run a scam, I'd handle it very differently. I'd do a big Kickstarter push, followed by an Indiegogo before the Kickstarter delivered (painting a rosy picture of the Kickstarter units' production, all the while), and then run for it. I would not produce dozens of test units and provide support to testers. If they're running a scam, they're really bad at it.
The stuff I've seen that company do is far more consistent with a hardware startup that's trying to make a thing, but encountering problems with producing things in China. Quality control ain't the same over there. There are a lot of unknowns around every corner when you try to scale up production as a new company.
The evidence I see indicates that maybe we should cut those guys some slack.
Post by: metalliqaz on Tue, 12 December 2017, 22:34:24
Post by: Floofs on Wed, 13 December 2017, 10:42:11
Post by: pnutster on Wed, 13 December 2017, 12:51:12
As mentioned above, sad thread, but I believe it to not be a scam.
Post by: daskeybo on Thu, 21 December 2017, 08:24:00
Post by: metalliqaz on Thu, 21 December 2017, 08:30:56
Post by: Coreda on Thu, 21 December 2017, 08:33:53
I've always felt that this forum gets too crazy with quoting. I like it when forums only quote 1 or two levels deep. Make things much more readable.
I agree. I wish this forum were like that. Sometimes you need to quote the previous poster, but if you're on mobile, it's near impossible to edit out all the previous posts successfully.
If you use Firefox for Android it supports userstyle addons, which allows adding de-nesting quote userstyles like the one in my sig.
Edit: holy old post quote, Batman.