Question on hhkb and topre.

[Exquite]

Hi, I always stick to mx the whole time, so I wonder what the difference in typing feels between mx and topre. I have never had a chance to click any topre switches. The price of hhkb is so high, so I wonder whether the typing feels can justify it. This brings me a curiosity about the feels of topre so much that I have been watching a plethora of topre reviews. Is it smooth? Is it tactile-like or linear-like (forgive me for this description based on mx)? Thankss

[Tactile]

If you're just interested in the Topre switches you shouldn't be looking at HHKB but instead Realforce keyboards. The HHKB layout is so different that if it's not your primary interest you should probably stay away. My point is that many folks have bought HHKB to try the Topre switches and then couldn't tolerate the oddball layout and ended up selling it. For full disclosure I have two HHKB & one Realforce board.

With a Realforce keyboard you get Topre switches along with a standard layout. There are also some options for Realforce, like 55 gram switches (my favorite), which you can't get on a HHKB.

The HHKB layout is very much not for everyone. Many people have bought one and tried to like it without success. I'm typing on one right now but it's not for most people.

My Realforce board is an older tenkeyless with 55 gram switches and it's great. It would be the one keyboard I'd keep if I had to go down to just one keyboard.

[Sup]

I have a different perspective from Tactile on this matter. In my view, the HHKB layout offers superior ergonomics and a more logically efficient design compared to the default layout. However, the challenge lies in people's resistance to change, often leading them to instantly dislike the layout due to their ingrained muscle memory. If you're heavily into gaming, I wouldn't necessarily recommend the HHKB as it's more tailored for productivity rather than gaming.

The HHKB provides a tactile feel reminiscent of a regular rubber dome, but it offers a premium sensation. Its tactility is rounded, resulting in a softer bottom out compared to the firmer bottom outs experienced with MX switches and the tactile feedback.

It's important to note that HHKB and Realforce utilize different plates, contributing to distinct experiences with Topre switches. The HHKB, owing to its integrated plastic plate, tends to offer a softer bottom out, while the Realforce, with its stainless steel plate, delivers a firmer experience, albeit still softer than an MX switch.

The justification of Topre's price depends entirely on personal preference. The most effective way to gauge its worth is through firsthand experience. Topre keyboards may not cater to everyone's needs or tastes, making it essential to try them out before determining their value to you.

[Exquite]

I have a different perspective from Tactile on this matter. In my view, the HHKB layout offers superior ergonomics and a more logically efficient design compared to the default layout. However, the challenge lies in people's resistance to change, often leading them to instantly dislike the layout due to their ingrained muscle memory. If you're heavily into gaming, I wouldn't necessarily recommend the HHKB as it's more tailored for productivity rather than gaming.

The HHKB provides a tactile feel reminiscent of a regular rubber dome, but it offers a premium sensation. Its tactility is rounded, resulting in a softer bottom out compared to the firmer bottom outs experienced with MX switches and the tactile feedback.

It's important to note that HHKB and Realforce utilize different plates, contributing to distinct experiences with Topre switches. The HHKB, owing to its integrated plastic plate, tends to offer a softer bottom out, while the Realforce, with its stainless steel plate, delivers a firmer experience, albeit still softer than an MX switch.

The justification of Topre's price depends entirely on personal preference. The most effective way to gauge its worth is through firsthand experience. Topre keyboards may not cater to everyone's needs or tastes, making it essential to try them out before determining their value to you.

Thank you so much! I have heard that topre switches may be somewhat "sandy" or not smooth. Is it true? Actually, I don't mind the sound or layout. Feeling is the most important aspect to me, and I want to try something new. Do you think topre would be a good choice for someone who likes solid bottom-out, smooth feelings?

[Axiom_]

Valid points.

I'd like to add to the discussion my 2 cents:

On the topic of feel, Topre is distinct and hard to compare to. It is softer and offers more of a non-linear response when depressed. Most of the sensation of Topre switches come from the rubber dome that bares similarity to those found in more common, mass-market low profile keyboards. Topre switches also have springs but they buckle more than MX-style switches, making them more "compliant" and softer to the touch. Unlike the activation mechanism behind say tactile MX switches, Topre has no physical activation and therefore offers no additional physical feedback other than the rubber dome + spring.

Do keep in mind that Topre is not linear, it does offer a subtle feedback sensation when bottomed out. This sensation is however, caused by the buckling of the rubber cup rather than the mechanical mechanism on MX-style switches; the feedback of a Topre switch is more "organic" owing to the compliant system.

Aside from HHKB and Realforce, I would recommend taking a look at the Leopold FC660C. The Leopold has more of a 65% layout and is easier to carry around. That being said, it has a metal backing plate, making the sensation a little different from HHKB. The metal plate affords more isolation to each individual key, offering slightly more tactility IMO.

Tactility aside, as an owner of a Leopold FC660C and a number of custom keyboards + mx style switches, I personally don't use the Leopold keyboard as my daily driver due to the plastic construction.

Regarding the "solid bottom-out, smooth feelings" OP mentioned, could you elaborate? Topre requires you to bottom-out to activate it and the feeling is relatively softer and more organic than MX-style switches.

[mohawk1367]

If you're just interested in the Topre switches you shouldn't be looking at HHKB but instead Realforce keyboards. The HHKB layout is so different that if it's not your primary interest you should probably stay away. My point is that many folks have bought HHKB to try the Topre switches and then couldn't tolerate the oddball layout and ended up selling it. For full disclosure I have two HHKB & one Realforce board.

With a Realforce keyboard you get Topre switches along with a standard layout. There are also some options for Realforce, like 55 gram switches (my favorite), which you can't get on a HHKB.

The HHKB layout is very much not for everyone. Many people have bought one and tried to like it without success. I'm typing on one right now but it's not for most people.

My Realforce board is an older tenkeyless with 55 gram switches and it's great. It would be the one keyboard I'd keep if I had to go down to just one keyboard.

it takes a few days max to get used to hhkb

[mohawk1367]

I have a different perspective from Tactile on this matter. In my view, the HHKB layout offers superior ergonomics and a more logically efficient design compared to the default layout. However, the challenge lies in people's resistance to change, often leading them to instantly dislike the layout due to their ingrained muscle memory. If you're heavily into gaming, I wouldn't necessarily recommend the HHKB as it's more tailored for productivity rather than gaming.

The HHKB provides a tactile feel reminiscent of a regular rubber dome, but it offers a premium sensation. Its tactility is rounded, resulting in a softer bottom out compared to the firmer bottom outs experienced with MX switches and the tactile feedback.

It's important to note that HHKB and Realforce utilize different plates, contributing to distinct experiences with Topre switches. The HHKB, owing to its integrated plastic plate, tends to offer a softer bottom out, while the Realforce, with its stainless steel plate, delivers a firmer experience, albeit still softer than an MX switch.

The justification of Topre's price depends entirely on personal preference. The most effective way to gauge its worth is through firsthand experience. Topre keyboards may not cater to everyone's needs or tastes, making it essential to try them out before determining their value to you.

Thank you so much! I have heard that topre switches may be somewhat "sandy" or not smooth. Is it true? Actually, I don't mind the sound or layout. Feeling is the most important aspect to me, and I want to try something new. Do you think topre would be a good choice for someone who likes solid bottom-out, smooth feelings?

it depends, usually on off center keypresses sometimes it can be a bit grainy but mine isnt anymore, either due to me getting used to it subconsciously or the sliders "breaking in" which some people claim is a thing that happens

[clay]

I just got my first Realforce (R3S) keyboard yesterday and I am typing on it for the first time today. I would say that the feel is on the tactile side, but quiet. Think of a rubber dome keyboard but with more resistance. My keyboard now is on the softer side and I want something heavier to press on. I have tried a friend's R2 TKL and he has modded it with custom domes from Deskeys. I might change the domes for more resistance and a more tactile feel.

[Tempest790]

I feel that Topre is a very refined rubber dome keyboard. Not like any Cherry MX which I feel is inherently a linear switch no matter which version you buy. I did like MX Reds on a keyboard I had years ago (Ducky). That said, Topre has won me over with the Realforce. Now to be fair, I did replace my rubber domes with BKE domes which give it a snappy tactile feel that is more pronounced than the more rounded feel of the stock 45g domes. For me, I've almost achieved perfection. It's an absolute joy to type on and sounds great (non-silenced). I doubt I'll buy a Cherry style switch again although I did order a Model F that I'm still waiting on. One more plus for the Topre is setting the actuation key travel distance to 1mm, 2.2mm, or 3mm. Great for touch typists or if you want to make sure it doesn't register accidental key presses. Personally, I keep it at the default 2.2mm. The newest Topre Realforce keyboards have four actuation levels now.

But, the amount of money I put into my Topre Realforce keyboards is pretty obscene. While I'm very pleased with it, I do think it's overpriced for what you get especially since I had to make some mods with the caps and domes.

I have two identical modded Topres:

Realforce R2 RGB backlit
Tai Hao PBT white keycaps
Keyclack BKE ultra light domes (RGB compatible)
Keyclack BKE sample kit (put the heavy domes under the space bar and escape key)

I will say, I've never bought another MX keyboard after Topre for what it's worth, so that may have saved me money too.

You can read up on aftermarket domes here:
https://hhkb.io/modding/Rubber_Domes/

[Tseg]

I keep going back and forth on whether to spring for a Topre board, just for the experience.  I have to believe some of the silent switches, like Boba U4's, with little rubber/silicone gaskets on the stems, create a feel somewhat like a Topre switch.   They are tactile with a soft rubbery bouncy when bottoming out.  I hear a lot of reviewers suggest going for the quiet Topre switches vs. The Classic... of course that just adds a lot more cost to "try it out".   We'll see how this plays out.

[TomahawkLabs]

I keep going back and forth on whether to spring for a Topre board, just for the experience.  I have to believe some of the silent switches, like Boba U4's, with little rubber/silicone gaskets on the stems, create a feel somewhat like a Topre switch.   They are tactile with a soft rubbery bouncy when bottoming out.  I hear a lot of reviewers suggest going for the quiet Topre switches vs. The Classic... of course that just adds a lot more cost to "try it out".   We'll see how this plays out.

I've been into keyboards for about 10 years now. Every time Topre gets brought up its touted as this magic thing that you either love or hate. That being said, I would love to try one, but it is its own thing. It's not like other boards that you can mix and match all your existing switches, keycaps, etc. If you are interesting, find a used one that you can flip for a small loss if you hate it.

Mechanical keyboards are 100% subjective (outside of Alps being superior lol) and everyone enjoys different elements of the hobby. If you aren't trying all the different flavors of keyboards you're missing out on a big part of the hobby, in my opinion.

[Rhienfo]

I've been into keyboards for about 10 years now. Every time Topre gets brought up its touted as this magic thing that you either love or hate. That being said, I would love to try one, but it is its own thing. It's not like other boards that you can mix and match all your existing switches, keycaps, etc. If you are interesting, find a used one that you can flip for a small loss if you hate it.

Mechanical keyboards are 100% subjective (outside of Alps being superior lol) and everyone enjoys different elements of the hobby. If you aren't trying all the different flavors of keyboards you're missing out on a big part of the hobby, in my opinion.

I agree it's its own thing, just due to the fact that it's rubber dome compared to mechanical switches like alps and cherry mx, I like topre though, would recommend trying it. If you are near a big city, there might be a keyboard meetup where you can try topre, there will probably be a topre board there, and it's a free way of trying it.

Also you can put mx keycaps on topre, you just need to buy aftermarket sliders. It just takes more work to replace the sliders.

[Tseg]

... If you aren't trying all the different flavors of keyboards you're missing out on a big part of the hobby, in my opinion.

AAAaaaaargh.   Stop making sense!!!!!   Two Manhattan's in on a Friday night and I just ordered a Snow White HHKB Type S.   I was doing research suggesting that modding the Classic to make as nice sounding as the Type S voids the warranty and costs nearly as much to pay for the mods.   I also considered your suggestion to buy a cheaper used board, but I really need a USB-C variant to give it its best chance of me using it regularly at my work station... I'm not interested in running additional micro-USB cables and the like to accommodate old tech.  I knew my ordering a Topre board was inevitable, but until a 1/2 hour ago I was sure it was going to be the Classic.  I don't know whether the HHKB discount is a perma-discount, but seeing nearly $100 knocked off the MSRP on the US website also helped to sway my logic.   Inevitably, my brain was somehow going to connect the dots, just a question of when.

[Exquite]

I keep going back and forth on whether to spring for a Topre board, just for the experience.  I have to believe some of the silent switches, like Boba U4's, with little rubber/silicone gaskets on the stems, create a feel somewhat like a Topre switch.   They are tactile with a soft rubbery bouncy when bottoming out.  I hear a lot of reviewers suggest going for the quiet Topre switches vs. The Classic... of course that just adds a lot more cost to "try it out".   We'll see how this plays out.

I've been into keyboards for about 10 years now. Every time Topre gets brought up its touted as this magic thing that you either love or hate. That being said, I would love to try one, but it is its own thing. It's not like other boards that you can mix and match all your existing switches, keycaps, etc. If you are interesting, find a used one that you can flip for a small loss if you hate it.

Mechanical keyboards are 100% subjective (outside of Alps being superior lol) and everyone enjoys different elements of the hobby. If you aren't trying all the different flavors of keyboards you're missing out on a big part of the hobby, in my opinion.

I will try it right now. Ty ty!