Author Topic: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board  (Read 117588 times)

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Offline jeffgran

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ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« on: Sat, 20 July 2013, 18:23:08 »
UPDATE

ManuForm, the Hand-Shaped Keyboard

"Manu-" = "Hand"
"-Form" = "Shape"

This project changed a lot from conception to completion, as I guess most product designs do.

The general design goals are:

- ergonomic keyboard
- 6 keys per thumb
- all 6 thumb keys are ACTUALLY reachable ergonomically
- all keys for all fingers are reachable without having to move the hands/wrists, thus losing their "home" (major culprits on a normal keyboard for this are ESC, backspace, number keys especially 6)
- to achieve the above point we use a 40%/60% style where there are multiple layers triggered by function keys (in this case these are some of thumb keys)


Original goal was to make it foldable/travelable too. That goal was scrapped, mainly because in all my prototyping I couldn't figure out a way to achieve the above goals without making the board contoured and "3D", and that basically makes it impossible to make it foldable too.



This is the final product:

117232-0

Typing demo:


Key Layout (subject to change :) )

Note that to get to the FN layer, you just hold down both of the "Symbol layer" keys at the same time.


/* *************** */
/* Layer 0: qwerty */
/* *************** */
/*  _________________________________________                     _________________________________________  */
/* |      |      |      |      |      |      |                   |      |      |      |      |      |      | */
/* | SHFT |  Q   |  W   |  E   |  R   |  T   |                   |  Y   |  U   |  I   |  O   |  P   | SHFT | */
/* |______|______|______|______|______|______|                   |______|______|______|______|______|______| */
/* |      |      |      |      |      |      |                   |      |      |      |      |      |      | */
/* | CTRL |  A   |  S   |  D   |  F   |  G   |                   |  H   |  J   |  K   |  L   |  ;   |  CMD | */
/* |______|______|______|______|______|______|                   |______|______|______|______|______|______| */
/* |      |      |      |      |      |      |                   |      |      |      |      |      |      | */
/* |  ALT |  Z   |  X   |  C   |  V   |  B   |                   |  N   |  M   |  ,   |  .   |  /   |  ALT | */
/* |______|______|______|______|______|______|_                 _|______|______|______|______|______|______| */
/*                               |      |      |               |      |      |                               */
/*                               | BSPC | CMD  |               | CTRL | SPC  |                               */
/*                               |      |      |               |      |      |                               */
/*                               |______|______|_             _|______|______|                               */
/*                                 |      |      |           |      |      |                                 */
/*                                 | TAB  | SYM  |           | SYM  |  ENT |                                 */
/*                                 |______|_LYR__|_         _|_LYR__|______|                                 */
/*                                   |      |      |       |      |      |                                   */
/*                                   |  ESC | NUM  |       | AROW | ALT  |                                   */
/*                                   |______|_LYR__|       |__LYR_|______|                                   */
/*                                                                                                           */
/*                                                                                                           */
/*                                                                                                           */
/* **************** */
/* Layer 1: symbols */
/* **************** */
/*  _________________________________________                     _________________________________________  */
/* |      |      |      |      |      |      |                   |      |      |      |      |      |      | */
/* | SHFT |  ~   |  (   |  )   |  +   |  >   |                   |  :   |  &   |  *   |      |  |   | SHFT | */
/* |______|______|______|______|______|______|                   |______|______|______|______|______|______| */
/* |      |      |      |      |      |      |                   |      |      |      |      |      |      | */
/* | CTRL |  `   |  {   |  }   |  =   |  '   |                   |  "   |  $   |  %   |  ^   |  \   |  CMD | */
/* |______|______|______|______|______|______|                   |______|______|______|______|______|______| */
/* |      |      |      |      |      |      |                   |      |      |      |      |      |      | */
/* |  ALT |      |  [   |  ]   |  -   |  <   |                   |  /   |  !   |  @   |  #   |  ?   |  ALT | */
/* |______|______|______|______|______|______|_                 _|______|______|______|______|______|______| */
/*                               |      |      |               |      |      |                               */
/*                               |  DEL |      |               |      |   _  |                               */
/*                               |      |      |               |      |      |                               */
/*                               |______|______|_             _|______|______|                               */
/*                                 |      |      |           |      |      |                                 */
/*                                 |      | FN   |           | FN   |      |                                 */
/*                                 |______|_LYR__|_         _|_LYR__|______|                                 */
/*                                   |      |      |       |      |      |                                   */
/*                                   |      |      |       |      |      |                                   */
/*                                   |______|______|       |______|______|                                   */
/*                                                                                                           */
/*                                                                                                           */
/*                                                                                                           */
/* ************************* */
/* Layer 2: numbers/movement */
/* ************************* */
/*  _________________________________________                     _________________________________________  */
/* |      |      |      |      |      |      |                   |      |      |      |      |      |      | */
/* | SHFT |      | HOME |  UP  |  END | PGUP |                   |      |  7   |  8   |  9   |      | SHFT | */
/* |______|______|______|______|______|______|                   |______|______|______|______|______|______| */
/* |      |      |      |      |      |      |                   |      |      |      |      |      |      | */
/* | CTRL |      |  <-  |      |  ->  | ESC  |                   |      |  4   |  5   |  6   |      |  CMD | */
/* |______|______|______|______|______|______|                   |______|______|______|______|______|______| */
/* |      |      |      |      |      |      |                   |      |      |      |      |      |      | */
/* |  ALT |      |      | DOWN |      | PGDN |                   |      |  1   |  2   |  3   |      |  ALT | */
/* |______|______|______|______|______|______|_                 _|______|______|______|______|______|______| */
/*                               |      |      |               |      |      |                               */
/*                               |      |      |               |      |   0  |                               */
/*                               |      |      |               |      |      |                               */
/*                               |______|______|_             _|______|______|                               */
/*                                 |      |      |           |      |      |                                 */
/*                                 |      |      |           |      |      |                                 */
/*                                 |______|______|_         _|______|______|                                 */
/*                                   |      |      |       |      |      |                                   */
/*                                   |      |      |       |      |      |                                   */
/*                                   |______|______|       |______|______|                                   */
/*                                                                                                           */
/*                                                                                                           */
/*                                                                                                           */
/* ************** */
/* Layer 3: FKeys */
/* ************** */
/*  _________________________________________                     _________________________________________  */
/* |      |      |      |      |      |      |                   |      |      |      |      |      |      | */
/* | SHFT |      |      |      | VOLUP|      |                   |      |  F7  |  F8  |  F9  |  F10 | SHFT | */
/* |______|______|______|______|______|______|                   |______|______|______|______|______|______| */
/* |      |      |      |      |      |      |                   |      |      |      |      |      |      | */
/* | CTRL |      |      |      | MUTE |      |                   |      |  F4  |  F5  |  F6  |  F11 |  CMD | */
/* |______|______|______|______|______|______|                   |______|______|______|______|______|______| */
/* |      |      |      |      |      |      |                   |      |      |      |      |      |      | */
/* |  ALT |      |      |      | VOLDN|      |                   |      |  F1  |  F2  |  F3  |  F12 |  ALT | */
/* |______|______|______|______|______|______|_                 _|______|______|______|______|______|______| */
/*                               |      |      |               |      |      |                               */
/*                               |      |      |               |      |      |                               */
/*                               |      |      |               |      |      |                               */
/*                               |______|______|_             _|______|______|                               */
/*                                 |      |      |           |      |      |                                 */
/*                                 |      |      |           |      | JGSL |                                 */
/*                                 |______|______|_         _|______|______|                                 */
/*                                   |      |      |       |      |      |                                   */
/*                                   |      |      |       |      |      |                                   */
/*                                   |______|______|       |______|______|                                   */
/*                                                                                                           */
/*                                                                                                           */
/*                                                                                                           */



Make Your Own

Not sure if anyone will be interested, but I decided to make this project open source.

The one warning I'll give is that the column stagger is pretty aggressive. After making some prototypes with less stagger, I found that, for my hand at least, with my short pinkies, this worked best. If your hands are shaped differently this might not fit the "ManuForm" (Hand-shaped) moniker for you. I wish I had the skills to make the model fully parametric so you could adjust it and print a variation with different column stagger and thumb-length, etc.

Anyway, if your hand is shaped kinda like this, and you like 40%-style (layered) ergonomic keyboards, you might love this board:

117254-1

So if you want to make one just like mine, here's what you'll need:

Print the Case

The case is also the plate the holds the MX keys. You can print it ("buy" it) at shapeways here: http://www.shapeways.com/product/6BNKXTXTA/manuform-keyboard?key=9d07b99823474e036abe511d064ed4b0. Full disclosure, there is a slight markup to buy that model, just to try to recoup some of the costs (probably close to $1000) of making all the prototypes and stuff that I did. You could get around that by using the original design files and uploading the model to your own shapeways account.


Wire it up

You can see my pictures of how I wired it below. The controller is a Teensy 2.0 with header pins. The board that holds it is this one from ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Pcs-DIY-Single-Side-Tinned-Prototyping-PCB-Circuit-Universal-Board-5cmx5cm-/231275000224?ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:US:1120

There are some wiring schematics I made here: http://imgur.com/a/QVU3J

117238-2
117236-3
117234-4

I would have loved to use this instead: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45587.msg955666#msg955666 to house the teensy, but I didn't see that in time before the design was finalized.

Paint it

This is the paint I used. Two (light) coats of the color, and then one of the clear coat to protect it:

117240-5

Close it up

The case is designed for M3x10mm bolts and nuts.

* Bolts: http://www.grainger.com/product/APPROVED-VENDOR-Skt-Cap-Screw-22TY49?cm_mmc=EMT-_-ShipConfirm-_-GcomShipConfirm-_-sku&RIID=137151846&GID=&mid=ShipConfirmation&orderNumber=&rfe=5169c25bb51177fd6d0b14b8e8e74f029fa7562ceec35793fdcdb3043d428be6&origin=prod
* Nuts: http://www.grainger.com/product/APPROVED-VENDOR-Hex-Nut-22UK74?cm_mmc=EMT-_-ShipConfirm-_-GcomShipConfirm-_-sku&RIID=137151846&GID=&mid=ShipConfirmation&orderNumber=&rfe=5169c25bb51177fd6d0b14b8e8e74f029fa7562ceec35793fdcdb3043d428be6&origin=prod


Firmware

I used @hasu's amazing TMK firmware. My fork (only difference is the addition of my project directory with the setup for my matrix) is here: https://github.com/jeffgran/tmk_keyboard



3D Model Source Files

You'll only need this if you're going to change the shape, but all of the source code and (editable) 3D models are on github, here: https://github.com/jeffgran/ManuForm




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Original Post



The idea is a little portable ergo layout with lots of thumb buttons. After several design iterations I'm down to just 56 keys. When in use it is about 6x13 inches, when folded about 6x7 inches.

The big knobs on the bottom allow for a little tenting when you set it up, but would probably be a little annoying when trying to pack this in your bag...

There'd have to be a pin to stick down the underside of the spine, or maybe a latch of some kind, to keep the tent from collapsing under its own weight.

What do you think the chances are I could actually get something like this made?

Of course, it'd probably be a lot easier to do with without the tenting but this was the idea I dreamed up.

Working draft of a layout:
28854-6

28856-7
28858-8
28860-9
28862-10

The bottom:
28864-11
« Last Edit: Fri, 11 November 2016, 23:32:28 by jeffgran »

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 20 July 2013, 18:26:01 »
This reminds of a foldable Catboard.

Pretty cool idea, interested in seeing it completed. What do you mean when you ask "What are my chances of getting it completed"? There's plenty of information on GH as to how you can build a custom keyboard. Are you motivated enough to find the info that you want and actually build it? If so I don't see why it can't be done.

Offline gnubag

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 20 July 2013, 18:27:38 »
pretty sure that this is going to be very expensive and probably heavy when made out of metal.
3d printing is not yet very stable enough to be able to thrown into a bag on a daily basis.

you could use magnets to have it proped up and keep it closed.

Offline Photekq

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 20 July 2013, 18:31:16 »
A few questions :

-PCB or direct wiring?
-PCB or plate mounting?
-What kinds of materials do you have in mind? Bare in mind that machining is very expensive and metal costs quite a lot too.
-How will you do the folding mechanism? Just simple hinges?
-How will you connect the two sections wire-wise?
« Last Edit: Sat, 20 July 2013, 18:53:16 by Photekq »
https://kbdarchive.org/
github
discord: hi mum#5710

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 20 July 2013, 18:37:07 »
Wonder if this would better it were direct wired. Would be much easier IMO and you could concentrate on the case more.

Offline MOZ

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 21 July 2013, 00:10:41 »
For a prototype or one-off, wiring is th best IMHO. If you want mass production, then PCB is the way to go.

I thought of something similar for my upcoming Ergodox, but what is the point of the split then, huh? :P

Acrylic could work, but it would be a little thicker than a metal case.

Simple hinge should work well for this.

Offline jeffgran

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 21 July 2013, 14:13:40 »
This reminds of a foldable Catboard.

Pretty cool idea, interested in seeing it completed. What do you mean when you ask "What are my chances of getting it completed"? There's plenty of information on GH as to how you can build a custom keyboard. Are you motivated enough to find the info that you want and actually build it? If so I don't see why it can't be done.

1.Thanks for that link, I hadn't seen that catboard thread before. It does have a simlar shape -- that's a cool personal board he built! So custom -- doubt anyone but him would really want it like that.

2.Yeah that was a poorly worded question. What I mean is: Are there any obvious design flaws or problems on the horizon? Like say, "that would only work if it was X material and that is going to cost you thousands of dollars" or something?

I used to do 3d graphics for a living but I know next to nothing about building things in real life, so any guidance is appreciated.

pretty sure that this is going to be very expensive and probably heavy when made out of metal.
3d printing is not yet very stable enough to be able to thrown into a bag on a daily basis.

you could use magnets to have it proped up and keep it closed.

Magnets are a good idea, I hadn't thought of that. I guess you'd have to find that balance between being strong enough to keep it standing but not so strong you can't pull it back apart...



A few questions :

-PCB or direct wiring?
-PCB or plate mounting?
-What kinds of materials do you have in mind? Bare in mind that machining is very expensive and metal costs quite a lot too.
-How will you do the folding mechanism? Just simple hinges?
-How will you connect the two sections wire-wise?

-- I am thinking plate-mounted and direct-wired, just because that seems easiest in terms of making custom parts. I just have to design the plate for the switches to "snap in" to, and then wire the back up, right? Am I right that they just sort of snap in?

- I was picturing it as solid milled aluminum ("milled" is what you say when it's made in the CNC machine?) LOL i am such a noob. Aluminum would be lighter than steel, right?

Maybe it could be CNC-milled acrylic? Seems like that oddly shaped bottom would have to be built from a 3d block. the plate and the top rim could be a 2d design.

- Hmm. I'm not sure how that hinge will work. Again with no experience with these product design issues, all I can keep picturing is like a cabinetry hinge that would be screwed on there somehow. If that piece was milled out of metal it could made in hinge shape like a door hinge and I'd just have to get a rod to stick in there as an axle.

- Again, good question. I picture is as like a headphone/telephone cord with the curls that stretch when you open it up like a spring. I need to study how the ergodox did it a little more to figure out how that has to work. I think the main question there is about how many individual leads you've got going across from one side to the other?


Wonder if this would better it were direct wired. Would be much easier IMO and you could concentrate on the case more.

For a prototype or one-off, wiring is th best IMHO. If you want mass production, then PCB is the way to go.

I thought of something similar for my upcoming Ergodox, but what is the point of the split then, huh? :P

Acrylic could work, but it would be a little thicker than a metal case.

Simple hinge should work well for this.

Thanks for your thoughts. I am leaning towards direct wiring since this will likely be a one-off. I'll open source anyhing I make though in case anyone wants to use it. I've learned so much already from all the stuff people here have built.

Offline Photekq

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 21 July 2013, 14:30:41 »
You could have it CNC milled (machined) but as I've said it's really quite expensive. And yes you're correct about platemounting. Good luck, you've got a lot of things to find solutions to if you want this project to happen! It's an ambitous project, but a good idea.
« Last Edit: Sun, 21 July 2013, 14:32:16 by Photekq »
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 21 July 2013, 14:58:51 »
If you're going to have a cabinetry hinge, my worries are that when it folds in, the switches at the bottom will interfere with the keyboard properly folding. Wonder what the best solution for this would be...

Yes, the plates will allow the switches to snap into it.

Aluminum is lighter than steel, yes. If you're going to make this out of acrylic, I'm wondering if the acrylic is too brittle for this motion. I think you'd want to stick with the aluminum since there will be a lot of folding and unfolding.
« Last Edit: Sun, 21 July 2013, 15:00:54 by CPTBadAss »

Offline MOZ

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 21 July 2013, 15:03:55 »
I would suggest a door hinge, not a cabinet hinge

Offline jeffgran

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 24 July 2013, 18:14:00 »
I switched to openSCAD to build the CAD models for this. Being a programmer, it appeals to my sensibilites. I can plug in different angles and recompile and see different variations with the different parameters.

I put the code for this on github: https://github.com/jeffgran/ergo56-hardware

Like I said it's open source and my aim was/is to create re-usable pieces (so far: a dcs key with cutout below, a matrix of keys in a key plate, etc.)

Next step: start building out the case design in openSCAD and try to figure out the hinge mechanism, how much space I'll need for the controller & wiring, how to construct the "rim" around the top of the case, etc.

29257-0

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Offline tufty

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 25 July 2013, 01:45:42 »
If it were me, I'd take a partial cue from the "stowaway" folding keyboards.  Rather than having one hinge, I'd have 2, and a rectangular piece in the middle.  This way you can make the whole deal fold inwards; this keeps your keys inside (and protected from damage) when folded.  In addition, the rectangular piece can be thick enough to provide your tenting whilst simplifying your keyboard "wings", the additional width will give better hand separation, and leaves you with a handy space for placing your controller (and maybe even cable storage).

Just a thought.  Keep at it!

[edit]  Ah, you are going for inward folding.  my bad.  Still, it seems to me that a middle piece will simplify your "wings" enormously.
« Last Edit: Thu, 25 July 2013, 01:47:44 by tufty »

Offline jeffgran

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 26 July 2013, 12:33:00 »
@tufty

Thanks for the tip, I had to do a search -- I had never seen the "stowaway" keyboards you're talking about. Pretty cool! Someone needs to make an ergnomic version and then this custom project would be obsolete. :)

The two hinge idea is very intriguing. You're right, the middle piece could extend down and provide the tenting and the base, so the "knobs" in my original design on the bottom wouldn't be needed. And better hand separation, as you point out. I'm definitely going to play with that idea!

Offline jeffgran

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 16 November 2013, 19:35:31 »
After a long hiatus due to buying a new house, moving, building a new workbench in the new garage, etc., I'm back thinking about this project again.

I decided I need to test out a prototype of the board with real switches and keys, so I ordered a 3D printed plate with a rim around the bottom for it to stand on, from shapeways. :) Now just have to wait a few weeks for them to ship it to me. :(

Here's another pic even though it's basically the same as what I showed before, I think. But without any of the tilt/tent/foldable madness yet:



Can't wait to get it and put some keys on there and pretend to type on it!

Offline bearcat

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 16 November 2013, 19:53:28 »
Yahoo, another openScadder! I did my first version on open scad as well, really liked it. I did the next version in openJsCad, actually...

I think your case idea is totally doable! If you're not set on it all being a single piece, then the high shared walls in the middle could be a vertical piece.

If you haven't already shipped your order to shapeways, you might consider getting them laser cut from Ponoko. Probably ~$25 for a set.

Also, check out Upverter for  doing the PCB, it's much easier to use than kicad!

Love the design, can't wait to see it!

Offline jeffgran

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 30 November 2013, 00:17:11 »
@bearcat: thanks dude. Yeah, I know javascript pretty well and it's obviously a lot more capable of a language than openSCAD is, so I've migrated everything to openjscad. It's sweet being able to tweak the design/parameters and rebuild it at will.

I got the box from shapeways last week and put all the switches in there to try it out. I like it but I definitely want to do another design revision and try it again. Will post pictures and update soon.

I think I'm going to just wire this up with wires instead of a pcb -- it'll skip the PCB design step and it'll allow me to play with different angled surfaces too.

Offline jeffgran

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 30 November 2013, 17:27:11 »
Here's some pics of how the prototype turned out. I only had one side printed (left hand), and of course ignore the actual legends on the keycaps. I just stuck on what I had laying around. I like it but it has some problems that I want to address in the next iteration:

1. The top two thumb buttons (F3 and page down in the pic) are too hard to hit, just like the top thumb buttons on ergodox, because of having to reach past the lower row and then press down. I think i want to try to put them on an angle so the thumb sort of "pokes" at them instead of pressing straight down on them. Because they are within easy reach of my thumb but just at the wrong angle.

2. The stagger on the columns is not severe enough for my hands. My forefinger and pinky are like WAY shorter than my middle and ring finger, so that if I put all 4 fingers at a natural curl, they end up resting on a different row. So I'm going to try making the pinky and forefinger columns shifted down about 3/4 of a key unit from the middle two columns, to see how that feels. It'll be specific to my hand, because I know other people's fingers are not all the same length relative to each other, but I guess that's the point here, to make it custom to my preferences. I have a feeling that if someone were ever to make a truly ergonomic keyboard it would HAVE to be custom fit to each person's hands. There's no one-size fits all ergonomic.

I already have done some work on the next design iteration. Will post back when I have something presentable.




Offline bearcat

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 03:06:04 »
:) if it makes you feel any better, i came to the same conclusion about needing waaaay more pinkie stagger! :D

Offline jeffgran

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 18:06:43 »
@bearcat yeah I just saw a thread from suka at deskthority where he said he had a 1/2 -3/4 key unit stagger on the columns too. Seems like everyone who goes full bore with the staggered columns comes to that realization...

---

So I have v2 of the basic plate/case finished. Below are pictures!

Of note:
- I decided to angle the thumb cluster a la the Kinesis (but more angled) and Oobly's board (mine is maybe less angled), and also do a sort of "double angle" on the top row of thumb keys. You can see in the pictures what I mean hopefully.
- I changed the stagger of the columns to what I think will fit my hands better and allow all my fingers to reach all 3 rows of keys easily without having to move my wrists.
- I also noticed in the first version that the plastic was flexible enough that it bowed in the middle a little bit when you press down on it, so I added some support "rails" on the underneath side to hopefully strengthen it.
- I was trying to design it so that a standard key set could be used to populate it, but it's just too hard. The standard set of keys is just too specific to a "normal" keyboard and doesn't adapt well to other designs.  For example there are two 1.5x keys in a normal set but they are different profiles because they are on different rows (delete and tab), and all the 1.25x mods are the heavily angled R4 profile which wouldn't work well to turn sideways and use as a thumb key. :(

Gonna order just the right hand side this time. If this turns out to be a good layout, I'll have to finish off the design with a bottom piece and a place for the controller board to sit, figure out the hinge mechanism (I think it'll have to fold backwards now, with this shape), figure out a cover for when it's folded up so you can throw it in a backpack, and then onto the electronics. Man, what a project I've gotten myself into!

One nice thing about using openjscad for this is that I have a pretty well parameterized model (needs a little work to remove some remaining hard-coded numbers) so I can tweak things like the stagger amounts, the various angles for the thumb piece, etc. so this could actually be a general design that people could tweak to their specific needs. It would be possible to make a little web UI to play with different settings, but I'm not sure if I'll have the motivation to get that up and running.






Offline bearcat

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 19:42:34 »
Love it!   Crazy steep thumb cluster, too :)


My hypothesis on everyone under-staggering the pinkie is that it looks like a half a key should be SO MUCH, but as soon as you put your hands on it, you find out it's not... another reason for everyone to prototype ;)

Looking forward to seeing your build!

Offline Puddsy

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 19:56:22 »
I'd totally use one of these. It'd probably be a little easier to lug around than my pure pro.
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Offline kurplop

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 22:45:29 »
I had prototyped your multi angled thumb cluster idea last summer and initially liked the idea, although the arrangement does require precise placement for it to work best. Eventually I decided to just use taller caps with a sloped face on the back keys instead for several reasons.

       -The design does further complicate the construction process, especially if you use PCB's.
       -The taller keycap route seem to be a bit more flexible for different sized hands.
       -I noticed the thumb action for the bottom thumb keys are a side strike, where the upper key require more of a thrust of the entire hand.

This is not to say that I'm suggesting you abandon the idea. I am just saying I couldn't work through some of the drawbacks I noticed in my design and decided to go in a different direction.

I appreciate those of you who have furthered the Key64/ErgoDox type design. We all seem to be working through many of the same issues and it's helpful and encouraging to me to see your progress. Keep posting!

 

Offline jeffgran

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #22 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 23:59:32 »
Thanks for the comments, guys.

@kurplop, thanks for sharing your experience with that. The kinesis uses the taller keycaps in back and it does work OK, but I thought this would be similar but an improvement. I guess I'll find out when this next print comes and I try it out. :) You're right that it will be a bit more of a "stab" or "poke" motion as opposed to a downward/inward press, but I'm hoping that it won't require wrist movement. We'll see.

BTW, I would like to second your sentiment that it is very inspiring to see what everybody else is/was working on. The key64, Kinesis, the ErgoDox (which, after building it, I thought "hey if I can build this from a kit then I can make a custom one too"), oobly's board, bearcat's board, kurplop's experiments, suka's experiments, have all been my inspiration and I have to count myself lucky that I live in a time where I can see the projects people are working on around the globe in a place like this.

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Offline jeffgran

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 09 December 2013, 12:50:31 »
Jeff,this your project also??
http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/an-other-diy-keyboard-project-t4560.html

Nope, different Jeff. From the looks of it that guy is crazy. :)

Offline lkong

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 11 December 2013, 21:58:19 »
Is it possible to make two pieces detachable?
Since we are folding backwards, hinges are really not necessary. Instead, why not make some kind of jack and slot to make them snap together. 

Offline jeffgran

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 12 December 2013, 20:21:01 »
Is it possible to make two pieces detachable?
Since we are folding backwards, hinges are really not necessary. Instead, why not make some kind of jack and slot to make them snap together. 

It's a good question and an interesting idea. The purpose of making it fold in on itself is to make it easy to throw into a bag without worrying about the keys/caps, and to have it take less space. I'm definitely not sure what the final case should look like at this point.

Offline Oobly

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 13 December 2013, 02:13:29 »
It's hard to come up with a good way to make this kind of board portable. I'm in the same boat. I've considered making the bases able to clip together so they fit together with the keys outwards and the cables fit between them, but that leaves the keys vulnerable and it's still bulky.

I'm considering a fold-flat design which can be folded "inwards" to protect the caps and key switches, but it's a PITA to design something that can be made without a lot of effort.

For now I just put both halves in a box like this:
47831-0
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline kurplop

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 13 December 2013, 05:39:15 »
I've also spent a lot of time considering the folding/flattening options and got nowhere. My conclusion is that I'd be better off making a custom travel case or shell. This could double as a dust cover if designed for that. I think that, considering the dimensions, folding your units in half, while having the benefit of protecting the keys, would be harder to handle than a flatter package.

Keep up the good work.

Offline jeffgran

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #29 on: Sat, 12 September 2015, 14:21:26 »
ZOMBIE PROJECT IS BACK FROM THE DEAD...

Believe it or not I've been working on this off and on in my spare time over the last two years (damn, has it really been that long?)

After a few more prototypes, and one that I THOUGHT was the final print but turned out to have some spacing and other little issues, I finally have the final shape printed and I'm currently working on the hand-wiring.


As you can see I've completely given up on the "foldable" idea for this keyboard. maybe someday if I build another one I'll try a more complicated design to get that done. For this project I decided to prioritize comfort in typing over portability. I did a lot of experimentation with the thumb key positions to try to figure out how to get 6 keys per thumb that could all be pressed without moving my hand, shifting my wrists, etc. This is what I came up with.

Also I renamed the project to "ManuForm" -- a backwards-latinization of "hand-shaped".

Pics:

All the prototypes so you can see the progression. The red one is the one I thought was the final iteration. After it was discovered to be wrong, I painted it with spraypaint as a test to see whether it would work on this material.

110806-0



A couple of more views:

110808-1
110810-2

The "cap" that goes over the little board that I'm attaching the teensy to. The little hole is positioned to be where the usb input is on the teensy.

110812-3

Painting in slate grey/blue:

110814-4


Okay, off to the garage to do some more soldering. Will have more pics Soon™ (it's getting exciting now so hopefully I will make quicker progress) :)

Offline kurplop

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Re: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard
« Reply #30 on: Sat, 12 September 2015, 14:34:51 »
Very impressive. It's good to see it coming together. I like the direction it is taking. Just don't wait 22 months for the next progress report. :)

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: ManuForm (was: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard)
« Reply #31 on: Sat, 12 September 2015, 14:40:56 »
I just saw this thread for the first time - the original idea looked very interesting but certainly no shortage of challenges.

The new single piece looks much more manageable and it looks like you're nearly there - exciting indeed!
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Offline heroinbob

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Re: ManuForm (was: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard)
« Reply #32 on: Sat, 12 September 2015, 15:01:06 »
Wow!! incredible.
Can't wait to see final.
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Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: ManuForm (was: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard)
« Reply #33 on: Sat, 12 September 2015, 17:06:25 »
Wow, really interesting.  Great to see that you are still working on this.
Wish I had some gif or quote for this space, but I got nothing

Offline pr0ximity

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Re: ManuForm (was: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard)
« Reply #34 on: Sat, 12 September 2015, 20:56:40 »
Wow, super cool to see you followed through with this! The new single-piece design looks great, looking forward to seeing the finished product and hear how you like it!

Is the final version also Shapeways-manufactured? What switches are you putting in it?
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Offline jeffgran

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Re: ManuForm (was: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard)
« Reply #35 on: Sat, 12 September 2015, 23:21:43 »
Thanks for the comments guys. @pr0ximity yeah, all Shapeways, their default "strong and flexible plastic" material. Kinda expensive, but short of buying a 3D printer myself I couldn't come up with any other options for this. Putting blue switches in there that I ripped off (desoldered from) a Cherry keyboard.

Man, doing all this soldering for the hand wiring is really a pain in the ass. I can't believe so many people have done this. Even hand-soldering those little teeny SMD diodes on the ErgoDox PCB was easier in my estimation. ;)

Offline jeffgran

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Re: ManuForm (was: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard)
« Reply #36 on: Tue, 03 November 2015, 23:35:31 »
Soldering is finished:

116036-0


I put some stuffing from an old pillow in there to try to help dampen the echo-y noise from the switches inside the big hollow case. I have no idea what material this is so I tested it with my multimeter to make sure it doesn't conduct electricity first:

116038-1

Naked:

116040-2
116042-3

All dressed up:

116044-4


However:

I configured and flashed tmk firmware onto the teensy, and it is working... except for the top row on each side. None of the top-row keys work (including the two thumb keys that are part of the "top row" on each side). The rows/columns are actually columns/rows in tmk, I guess that's how it has to work because of how I did my diodes? I don't really know, but that's the only way I was able to get it to work. But I can't figure out what's wrong and I've run out of ideas on what to test... multimeter confirms that current flows from the teensy on that pin through a switch.

It's the white wires in the picture, on both sides that don't work. Does anybody with more experience than me have any ideas? Did I mess up the wiring somehow?

Offline jeffgran

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #37 on: Wed, 04 November 2015, 18:53:07 »
aww ****.  :confused:  I think I know what I did wrong. I wired my diodes in series instead of in parallel. Put another way, I the solder point should have been AFTER the diode as it comes out of the switch, not before. Crap. back to the workbench. since I only have two diodes per "column" maybe there's an easy way to fix this...

EDIT: yep, confirmed by jumpering with alligator clips across one of the diodes between the top/middle "column", and that made the top key on that "row" work. Can anyone explain to me why this doesn't work with them in series? Is it just because with two diodes in series there is too much resistance? I thought that two diodes both oriented the same way would be fine in terms of the circuit completing.
« Last Edit: Wed, 04 November 2015, 19:05:50 by jeffgran »

Offline PJE

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #38 on: Thu, 05 November 2015, 05:54:17 »
There's a voltage drop of typically 0.7V across each diode. Depending on the supply voltage you're dropping the voltage supplied to the micro into the undefined region between 0 & 1. what type of diode were you using?

I'd measure the voltage at the input to ensure it's in the valid range.

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #39 on: Thu, 05 November 2015, 07:36:17 »
Damn....what a great resurrection! How do you like the dampening you get from the pillow stuffing? I typically use drawer liner.

Offline ideus

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #40 on: Thu, 05 November 2015, 08:03:09 »
If this would be a portable it should be light, PCB mounted switches makes more sense than plate mounting.

Offline jeffgran

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #41 on: Sun, 08 November 2015, 16:41:04 »
There's a voltage drop of typically 0.7V across each diode. Depending on the supply voltage you're dropping the voltage supplied to the micro into the undefined region between 0 & 1. what type of diode were you using?

I'd measure the voltage at the input to ensure it's in the valid range.

The diodes I'm using are the 1N4148, here:http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00UXPVLEG

I tried measuring the voltage drop from the input on the teensy across all 3 diodes, the number was above 1, but I'm not sure if I was really doing it right.

Anyway, I think I'm going to re-solder all the diodes so they're in parallel, one per switch.

Offline jeffgran

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #42 on: Sun, 08 November 2015, 16:42:59 »
Damn....what a great resurrection! How do you like the dampening you get from the pillow stuffing? I typically use drawer liner.

Thanks, just hope I can get it actually working so I can try using it. :) The pillow stuffing does OK, definitely better than nothing, but not that great either. Maybe I need to stuff more in there, or find something denser. It's a weird shape to try to fill.

Offline jeffgran

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #43 on: Fri, 13 November 2015, 00:22:16 »
Yeeehaw! Just have to post my long-awaited "I'm typing this post on my new keyboard" post! So excited to have it working. I'm sure I'll be spending a lot of time tweaking the layout.

Hasu if you're listening, THANK YOU for your tmk firmware, it is so amazing! I feel like there's nothing it can't do, and I can't wait to keep tweaking my layouts and layers to my liking.

And of course thank you to everyone else who came before me and led the way -- this forum has been like my bible on this project as I struggle through this project. Thank you all for being such a kind and helpful and ambitious and skillful community. God, I know, I sound so cheesy... but I can't help it, I'm just so excited! :)

Offline ursulache

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #44 on: Fri, 13 November 2015, 03:43:41 »
Congratulations

Offline vvp

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Re: ManuForm (was: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard)
« Reply #45 on: Fri, 13 November 2015, 04:18:56 »
Man, doing all this soldering for the hand wiring is really a pain in the ass. I can't believe so many people have done this. Even hand-soldering those little teeny SMD diodes on the ErgoDox PCB was easier in my estimation. ;)
Use Ø 0.2 mm enameled (magnet) wire instead of a wire with a plastics insulation. You will save time stripping insulation at the right places. Soldering iron (at abut 400 °C) will just burn through the enamel at the joint place. The enamel will stay insulating the wires on the other places.
Check the last picture in this post for an example.

Nice project. Keep going on.

Offline kurplop

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #46 on: Fri, 13 November 2015, 05:40:45 »
Congratulations. You did a really nice job on this. I can definitely understand the thrill. Whenever I fire up a new board for the first time and it works, I have an uncontrollable urge to giggle. I'm all by myself and I'm giggling. Go figure.

So how does it feel using it? Do you think it will take long to get use to the physical layout? Any concerns?
« Last Edit: Fri, 13 November 2015, 05:44:03 by kurplop »

Offline tufty

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #47 on: Fri, 13 November 2015, 05:42:53 »
Excellent news!  It looks proper "space age", too.  Well done.

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #48 on: Sat, 14 November 2015, 08:24:57 »
Glad to see this working, but aren't the diodes wrong?  They appear to be wired with the black end of the top switch connected to the clear end of the one below, where usually all the black ends are connected.

If you press the three top middle corner switches (Y U and H?) at the same time does it detect a press of J?
« Last Edit: Sat, 14 November 2015, 08:27:09 by suicidal_orange »
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Offline Mad_Maxx

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #49 on: Sat, 14 November 2015, 12:33:44 »
This is some next-level space age stuff.
Great project.
Bad switches is the only thing that I like

Offline jeffgran

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Re: ManuForm (was: Ergo56 -- crazy idea for a mini, foldable ergo keyboard)
« Reply #50 on: Sat, 14 November 2015, 21:25:56 »
Man, doing all this soldering for the hand wiring is really a pain in the ass. I can't believe so many people have done this. Even hand-soldering those little teeny SMD diodes on the ErgoDox PCB was easier in my estimation. ;)
Use Ø 0.2 mm enameled (magnet) wire instead of a wire with a plastics insulation. You will save time stripping insulation at the right places. Soldering iron (at abut 400 °C) will just burn through the enamel at the joint place. The enamel will stay insulating the wires on the other places.
Check the last picture in this post for an example.

Nice project. Keep going on.

Hey, thanks. Great tip. Too late for me now, but I totally would have tried that if I had known before.

Offline jeffgran

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #51 on: Sat, 14 November 2015, 21:30:10 »
Glad to see this working, but aren't the diodes wrong?  They appear to be wired with the black end of the top switch connected to the clear end of the one below, where usually all the black ends are connected.

If you press the three top middle corner switches (Y U and H?) at the same time does it detect a press of J?

Yes, totally! They are wrong, but the effect I got was not ghosting (which I think is what you're getting at with holding down the three keys), what I got was that the top row just did not work. Believe it or not I just desoldered all of the diodes and did them all over again, but attaching them like you say: with the clear end of each connected to the switch, and the black end of each all connected to an (electrically) common point, and from there back to the controller. Here's the updated picture of the wiring (though I think it's kinda hard to see all the detail, sorry for phone pic):

117226-0

Offline jeffgran

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #52 on: Sat, 14 November 2015, 21:39:43 »
Congratulations. You did a really nice job on this. I can definitely understand the thrill. Whenever I fire up a new board for the first time and it works, I have an uncontrollable urge to giggle. I'm all by myself and I'm giggling. Go figure.

So how does it feel using it? Do you think it will take long to get use to the physical layout? Any concerns?


Hah, nice. And good questions.

* The physical layout feels divine... I knew I liked it because I had made so many prototypes and got it so that it was perfectly comfortable to my hands. My goal was to get it so that ALL of the keys on the board, including all 6 keys per thumb, were easy to press *without* moving my hand.

The reason I like using the keyboard for everything instead of the mouse is that it's faster because I don't have to move my hand over to the mouse and then back. So I wanted to be able to hit all of the keys without moving my hand. And, I'm a programmer so I hate how certain common keys (like the ` or _ or \) I can't hit without moving my hand over to hit it, and then I "lose my place" back on the home row and it breaks my stride.

So in that sense, I definitely achieved my goal. Surprisingly the one key that I've found that's the hardest/most uncomfortable to hit is the bottom row very outer key (like where you'd think SHIFT would be) for the pinky. The middle and top are easier to hit than the bottom.

The biggest concern now is practicing with the layout that I've set up and getting the muscle memory. This is a "40%"-type of board, which I've never had or tried before. You'll notice there are only 3 rows of keys -- no number row, no room for symbols, so all of that is on other layers. The layers are triggered by some of the thumb keys. So we'll see how long it takes. I really hope I end up liking it since I spent all this time developing it. :)  But so far so good.

I also intend to put a new soft-layout of the letter keys on there, but I think for now I'm going to stick with QWERTY while I get used to the rest of it, so there's not so much to learn at the same time.

Offline kurplop

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #53 on: Sat, 14 November 2015, 21:53:09 »
I ran into the problem of liking my custom board so much that I can't stand using anything else. I'm not real quick at adapting to change (What's that saying about old dogs and new tricks?) and I like my muscle memory just as it is.

You did an amazing job on your board and I'm truly happy for you because I also know the joy of typing on something that makes sense for you.

Offline jeffgran

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #54 on: Sat, 14 November 2015, 22:23:51 »
Thanks for your kind words, @kurplop.

@all I updated the first post with more info, including all of the files and information in case anyone wants to build one just like mine! Info is here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46015.msg966802#msg966802

Offline Heliobb

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #55 on: Sun, 15 November 2015, 06:06:09 »
Thanks for the recap. Really appreciate.

Which cable did you use. I'm trying to buy some on aliexpress, but their is too many references.
« Last Edit: Sun, 15 November 2015, 06:11:38 by Heliobb »
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Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #56 on: Sun, 15 November 2015, 06:41:31 »
Yup, was talking about ghosting but it was the other way :))

Thanks a lot for the files - will have to get on a sensible sizes screen and see how my hand matches up - it doesn't look that dissimilar in a tiny version :D
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Offline jeffgran

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #57 on: Sun, 15 November 2015, 14:03:36 »
Thanks for the recap. Really appreciate.

Which cable did you use. I'm trying to buy some on aliexpress, but their is too many references.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B4ZRPEY?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00

It doesn't really matter which wire you use, any wire will do. This is the one I got, just because it's short lengths of multiple different colors. It's 22AWG though, which is pretty thick, probably thicker than necessary and made it a little more difficult to work with. If I did it again I might choose 24 or even higher (remember higher number is thinner).

Offline Heliobb

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #58 on: Sun, 15 November 2015, 15:32:25 »
Thanks for the recap. Really appreciate.

Which cable did you use. I'm trying to buy some on aliexpress, but their is too many references.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B4ZRPEY?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00

It doesn't really matter which wire you use, any wire will do. This is the one I got, just because it's short lengths of multiple different colors. It's 22AWG though, which is pretty thick, probably thicker than necessary and made it a little more difficult to work with. If I did it again I might choose 24 or even higher (remember higher number is thinner).

Thanks will know what I need for my next keyboard.
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Offline hasu

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #59 on: Mon, 16 November 2015, 21:37:30 »
Congrat and really great job!

Hasu if you're listening, THANK YOU for your tmk firmware, it is so amazing! I feel like there's nothing it can't do, and I can't wait to keep tweaking my layouts and layers to my liking.


Offline derezzed

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #60 on: Mon, 16 November 2015, 22:51:46 »
I'd really like to type on this.  I like the ergodox design but the thumb clusters always seemed poorly laid out for touch typing.  It looks like your design could allow multiple simultaneous key presses if you're not careful with thumb placement, but it also looks like a big improvement over the ergodox design.  I'm guessing you type on the innermost blue thumb keys with the balls of your thumbs, and the outer blue thumb keys with the tips of your thumbs.  Is that correct?

Offline jeffgran

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #61 on: Tue, 17 November 2015, 21:10:03 »
I'd really like to type on this.  I like the ergodox design but the thumb clusters always seemed poorly laid out for touch typing.  It looks like your design could allow multiple simultaneous key presses if you're not careful with thumb placement, but it also looks like a big improvement over the ergodox design.  I'm guessing you type on the innermost blue thumb keys with the balls of your thumbs, and the outer blue thumb keys with the tips of your thumbs.  Is that correct?

I had the same experience. I got an ergodox and thought I was going to really like it, but the thumb cluster was just unusable except for the two large keys on each side, for me. This design came out of my experience with the ergodox and the kinesis advantage (which is more comfortable and a little better, but still has the same problem, that you can't reach all the thumb keys very easily).

To answer your question: I hit all of the thumb keys including the small inner ones with the "pad" of my thumb... the part just opposite the thumbnail, if that makes sense. I don't hit them with the "ball", or the knuckle/joint part. It's possible, and you could do it that way, but I don't find that comfortable. It's probably hard to tell from the pictures but those "inner" ones, closest to the palm of your hand, are recessed and angled a little to make them reachable/pressable without really moving your wrist or your hand.

You can't really hold down more than one thumb key with the same thumb though. I never really intended that to be the case... all of my combinations are either one key with each thumb or one thumb and one pinky, etc. I never use the same thumb for two keys at once. Oobly's board does have that though, if that's what you're looking for. His only has 4 keys per thumb though and they're all right in a little 4-key cluster together.

Offline jeffgran

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #62 on: Wed, 18 November 2015, 00:02:58 »
Hmm, on second thought I take that back. I just was playing with it and it's definitely possible and actually kinda easier to use the "ball" of the thumb on those inner keys, and in fact to a horizontal pair of the blue thumb keys at the same time with one thumb (though my current keymap doesn't make that useful). But I will try hitting them that way while I work tomorrow and see if I like it better. Thanks for the idea! :)

Offline hoggy

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #63 on: Fri, 20 November 2015, 06:52:48 »
Looks good!  The pictures of the inside remind me of Maltron - they use vacuum forming to achieve a similar result.
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Offline Oobly

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #64 on: Wed, 25 November 2015, 04:51:11 »
Looking good!

Nice to see you making progress on your design. I'll be revisiting mine when I have time. I want to try ML switches for the thumb clusters so I can move them in closer to the main switches. The thumb buttons really do seem to take the most effort to get right, IME.
Buying more keycaps,
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Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #65 on: Sat, 28 November 2015, 14:05:45 »
Looks good!  The pictures of the inside remind me of Maltron - they use vacuum forming to achieve a similar result.

Yea, I was going to say, this is like a more evolved and compact version of the Maltron.  Well done.
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Offline jeffgran

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #66 on: Mon, 30 November 2015, 00:20:53 »
Looking good!

Nice to see you making progress on your design. I'll be revisiting mine when I have time. I want to try ML switches for the thumb clusters so I can move them in closer to the main switches. The thumb buttons really do seem to take the most effort to get right, IME.

I agree. After a few weeks of typing on mine, there is one mistake I think I made with regard to the thumb key placement. The two 1.5x white keys in the picture are staggered so that the "inner" one (meaning more under the hand, would be called "outer" if you're looking at the whole board and considering the middle of it more "inner") is lower. This felt good in testing and does feel good to type, but it makes it a little laborious to hit that key because you have to bring your thumb up and over the higher one. I think I should have made it less lowered, maybe even on an even plane with the other one, even thought that might look odd because it would be pretty high.

But if I ever do make a v2 of this board that thumb issue and the foldability/portability will be the two things I want to tackle.

I did see in another thread that you were thinking about playing with ML switches. I considered them just because of the short throw... but decided to jailhouse-blues my blue switches instead, and loving it so far. Will be very curious to see what happens with your next project.

Offline Darkshado

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #67 on: Sun, 03 January 2016, 00:53:50 »
Great write-up and very interesting looking result!

For the sound dampening, I wonder if some sort of expanding foam might work well e.g. protect / mask the interior of the case + switches + wiring + controller with plastic sheeting, spray, trim, ???????, quiet!

Offline FoC_Tow

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #68 on: Sun, 03 January 2016, 11:53:40 »
This is some next-level space age stuff.
Great project.

Im definitely getting that alien technologies vibe too, awesome build!  :thumb:

If, as a game designer, I ever get the task of designing some sort of spacecraft interiors
I would very much consider asking you for allowance to incorporate something along your design!  :)

Offline Zustiur

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #69 on: Sat, 09 January 2016, 22:17:27 »
Awesome work. Your hands look pretty similar to mine so I'd love to give this a try. Pity that my work is too heavily mouse reliant to have a 3d keyboard be useful. I'd definitely consider getting this shell printed if it weren't for that issue.

Offline Zekromtor

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #70 on: Fri, 15 January 2016, 03:57:30 »
Nice work. Looks very functional

Offline WhittlesJr

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #71 on: Thu, 05 May 2016, 14:01:08 »
Hey! I created an account just to reply to this thread.

I've taken a real interest in your ManuForm keyboard. Of all the designs I've seen on the internet, yours looks the most comfy to me, and I really want to make one for myself to replace my "Truly"Ergonomic.

I've got a few questions before I take the $430+ plunge, though:
  • After a while typing on the thing, are there any other issues you've found, other than the thumb button thing you mentioned?
  • The span of my hands is about 9 inches. Is your span close? Should I bother re-sizing the thing to fit my measurements? 
  • What about the width of the keyboard, and the separation of the hands? Do you think it would be worth adjusting for myself or is it kind of one-size-fits-all? (I'm about 6'6")
  • Would it be advisable to try to fix that thumb button issue? Could it be done relatively confidently without making a prototype?
  • What keycaps did you use, and where did you get them? Do you recommend DCS or SA, or what?
  • Related to the last question, I have a very custom layout I've been typing with for years. Can you recommend a company to go with for making a one-off set of custom keycaps for my ManuForm? It would have to accommodate a non-standard layout with multiple layers represented on each key.
  • Again on the keycap issue, but much less important: is it possible to make this thing backlit? That would crank the sci-fi factor up a notch XD
  • Have you tried transporting it much? Unless I build two of them, I'd probably have to lug one around almost daily. Any thoughts on that?

I seriously admire your dedication, and I believe that your years of effort have produced a superior product. No offense to any of the other makers on here, I've seen a lot of great designs. But this looks like the board for me!

Offline jeffgran

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #72 on: Fri, 06 May 2016, 15:24:48 »
Cool, thanks for your interest! It would be awesome to see another one of these in the wild. I love mine and I use it at work all day every day.

After a while typing on the thing, are there any other issues you've found, other than the thumb button thing you mentioned?

There is one other thing I would change if I were to make another one. Since there are only three rows of keys, on my numpad layer there is no place to put a '.' key, so when typing in numbers with decimal points (and especially things like ip addresses) I have to "unshift" the numpad layer for every '.' -- so I'd want fourth key for the ring finger and maybe the middle finger too, since there is room on the hardware design there too. But that's a small issue.

Quote
The span of my hands is about 9 inches. Is your span close? Should I bother re-sizing the thing to fit my measurements?

Depending on how much I stretch my hand out the span (you're talking about from tip of pinky to tip of thumb, right?) is about 8-8.5 inches maybe 9 if I really stretch.

Quote
What about the width of the keyboard, and the separation of the hands? Do you think it would be worth adjusting for myself or is it kind of one-size-fits-all? (I'm about 6'6")

It's about 13 inches wide, but the hand wells are angled out -- so the intention is that your elbows are wide and your forearms are angled inwards. I think you'd probably be fine. I guess maybe the only thing you may have to worry about would be if you have thicker fingertips, maybe the keys would be too close together? But I would think that would be the same on any keyboard.

Quote
Would it be advisable to try to fix that thumb button issue? Could it be done relatively confidently without making a prototype?

Eh, I don't think it's worth the risk and the trouble. I put a short keycap on the one 1.5x key and a taller one on the other 1.5x key so they are closer to even. It works pretty well. Also as my hands/fingers get used to the placement I notice the "problem" a lot less.

Quote
What keycaps did you use, and where did you get them? Do you recommend DCS or SA, or what?

I have DCS keycaps on there. I tried with DSA but did not like it at all. The additional sculpting/angles on DCS makes the touch feel much nicer. I put R5 on the top row, R2 on the middle row, and R3 on the bottom row (I think I have those right).

Quote
Related to the last question, I have a very custom layout I've been typing with for years. Can you recommend a company to go with for making a one-off set of custom keycaps for my ManuForm? It would have to accommodate a non-standard layout with multiple layers represented on each key.

No idea... Signature Plastics (now pimpmykeyboard.com) is where I go for most of my keycaps but I have never tried ordering a one-off custom set. My guess is that it would be expensive. Maybe look around or ask around in the Group Buy section? Those guys are masters of ordering keycaps.

Quote
Again on the keycap issue, but much less important: is it possible to make this thing backlit? That would crank the sci-fi factor up a notch XD

No idea. Not sure if you need extra wires or what for that. I haven't really looked into it.

Quote
Have you tried transporting it much? Unless I build two of them, I'd probably have to lug one around almost daily. Any thoughts on that?

It's pretty easy to carry in one hand, but I just leave mine at work. It's not convenient to put into a backpack or anything, so you kinda have to hold it in your hand.


Quote
I seriously admire your dedication, and I believe that your years of effort have produced a superior product. No offense to any of the other makers on here, I've seen a lot of great designs. But this looks like the board for me!

Thanks man. I usually try to stay humble but in this case I have to agree. This is the best keyboard there is right now. I tried and tried to find something like it but made it out of necessity because no one IMHO was doing it right.

It would be the ultimate flattery to see someone else build my design too -- so if you do decide to give it a shot I'll help in any way I can, and I'd totally love to see pictures of it when it's done. :)

Offline WhittlesJr

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #73 on: Fri, 06 May 2016, 17:19:10 »
Jeff, thank you for the reply! You answered all my questions very well.

I think the decimal issue can be solved with tinkering with the firmware layout, and your hands seem pretty close in size and shape to mine, so it sounds like I can stick with the existing design! I think I'll order my parts pretty soon, and I'll keep you updated with my progress.

I'm probably going to need the most help with the wiring, since I've never put a keyboard together before. A wiring diagram would sure help, as the photos are a little hard to follow for an amateur like myself.

I seriously can't stop thinking about having one of these, my TrulyErgonomic seems so backwards in comparison. Thank you for sharing the fruit of your labor!
« Last Edit: Fri, 06 May 2016, 17:21:11 by WhittlesJr »

Offline WhittlesJr

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #74 on: Fri, 06 May 2016, 17:24:26 »
Oh, I thought of one additional question:

What exact style of keycaps did you use on the thumb buttons?

Offline jeffgran

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #75 on: Sat, 07 May 2016, 13:21:08 »
These are the keycaps: http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dcs-1-5-space-pack-of-4/

I currently have one R2 and one R1 on each side.

I'll try to work on a wiring diagram... you're right though, that was the hardest part.

Offline WhittlesJr

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #76 on: Sat, 07 May 2016, 15:51:49 »
Perfect, thank you! Should the smaller 4 thumb buttons on each side be a particular style as well?

Offline jeffgran

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 126
  • Location: Denver
Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #77 on: Mon, 09 May 2016, 11:46:56 »
Perfect, thank you! Should the smaller 4 thumb buttons on each side be a particular style as well?

Had to wait until I was back at work to check. Currently I have 3 tall R5 and one short R2 on each side. I have them all oriented different ways... I just played with different caps until it sorta "felt right".

Offline WhittlesJr

  • Posts: 7
Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #78 on: Mon, 16 May 2016, 08:49:05 »
Thanks again! That helps a lot.

I just ordered my parts! I was curious why the 3D print was so expensive so I looked into the margin you added, and I don't at all mind ordering from your store. You deserve compensation for your investment.

Also, I spent a laughably long time tweaking my layout, and I think I'm done (until I get a chance to test it out and refine it further). If you're interested in it, the layout and an explanation of it follows:

The alphabet layout is based off of Dvorak with some improvements that make it more efficient while still maintaining Dvorak's original hand alternation mechanic. It also ensures that commonly paired letters are on separate fingers, as much as possible. (Analysis: http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/#/load/kbHfrnk5. Takes a bit to load.)

It starts getting silly on the symbol layer, as I threw in a bunch of "maybe I'll use this some day" Unicode symbols because I had room. The symbol to the right is always the "shifted" version, so you could hit Symbol + shift  + < to get the less-than-equals sign. I tried to pair up like symbols, like the "exponentiation" sign (^) and the root sign (√). I also threw in true quote marks and other typographical nitpickings, as a basic  text editor or web form doesn't convert typewriter quote marks into proper ones. Similarly I made sure to include every variety of dash (h = hyphen, m = em dash, - = minus sign, n = en dash, f = figure dash). (Some of these I only discovered after deciding to make this layout XD)  I also threw in a Greek layer with even more symbols because why not. (I knew I'd be typing things like pi and lambda at least, lol).

The symbol arrangement is biased towards C++ / Java, with curly braces on the home row and <> treated as a form of brackets.

The whole thing is also designed with one-hand use in mind (right-handed mouse), as I tend to do a lot of copy-paste operations with one hand on the mouse. Whitespace and backspace are kept on the left hand as much as possible to allow for comfy copypasta arrangement. This also accommodates gaming with a mouse, which sometimes requires numerical input (at least in the games I play), so the numpad is also accessible with the left hand only. For a left-hander, I would recommend mirroring the layout completely.

That brings me to the command layer, which groups ctrl+letter combinations onto the left hand. "Whittles-Dvorak" pays no heed to keyboard shortcuts, so I needed a way to hit "ctrl+c" "ctrl+v" etc. with my left hand only.

It seems that you can pretty easily program macros like that into the firmware, so that's why I decided to put in all that unicode. I can make it send OS-sensitive alt codes to get those symbols (there's an OS switcher on the thumb of the symbol layer). That logic will all be handled in firmware code, so no need for autohotkey.

Finally, I decided that layer switchers will behave kind of like the "numlock" button (layer on / off) as well as a "shift" button (hold and press other keys). If you hold and press a key, it will revert to layer 0 when you release. If you just press it without any other key in combination, it will "lock" the layer until you hit that key again (and it always reverts to layer 0).

So basically, I'm crazy XD But if I'm gonna drop $450 on a physical keyboard I figured I might as well spend some quality time designing the soft layout to fit my tastes.


Code: [Select]
/* ************************ */
/* Layer 0: Whittles-Dvorak */ 
/* ************************ */
/*  _________________________________________                     _________________________________________  */
/* |      |      |      |      |      |      |                   |      |      |      |      |      |  hm  | */
/* | ESC  |  ;:  |  ,&  |  .@  |  P   |  Y   |                   |  F   |  G   |  L   |  R   |  C   |  -—  | */
/* |______|______|______|______|______|______|                   |______|______|______|______|______|______| */
/* |      |      |      |      |      |      |                   |      |      |      |      |      |      | */
/* | TAB  |  O   |  A   |  E   |  I   |  U   |                   |  D   |  H   |  T   |  N   |  S   |  /\  | */
/* |______|______|______|______|______|______|                   |______|______|______|______|______|______| */
/* |      |      |      |      |      |      |                   |      |      |      |      |      |      | */
/* | LCTL |  '"  |  Q   |  J   |  K   |  X   |                   |  B   |  M   |  W   |  V   |  Z   | RALT | */
/* |______|______|______|______|______|______|_                 _|______|______|______|______|______|______| */
/*                               |      |      |               |      |      |                               */
/*                               | SHFT | SPC  |               | ENTR | SHFT |                               */
/*                               |      |      |               |      |      |                               */
/*                               |______|______|_             _|______|______|                               */
/*                                 |      |      |           |      |      |                                 */
/*                                 | BSPC | CMDS |           | SYMB | DEL  |                                 */
/*                                 |______|______|_         _|______|______|                                 */
/*                                   | NUM/ |      |       |      |      |                                   */
/*                                   | DPAD | LALT |       | RCTL | SUPER|                                   */
/*                                   |______|______|       |______|______|                                   */
/* ******************* */                                                           
/* Layer 1: Symbols    */                         
/* ******************* */           
/*  _________________________________________                     _________________________________________  */
/* |      |      |      |      |      |      |                   |      |      |      |      |      |  -n  | */
/* |  ´`  |  …·  |  ?¿  |  !¡  |  |‖  |  §¶  |                   |  †‡  |  ~≈  |  #№  |  ^√  |  +±  |  −–  | */
/* |______|______|______|______|______|______|                   |______|______|______|______|______|______| */
/* |   f  |      |      |      |      |      |                   |      |      |      |      |      |  f   | */
/* |  _‒  |  =≠  |  <≤  |  {“  |  (‘  |  [«  |                   |  ]»  |  )’  |  }”  |  >≥  |  *×  |  ⁄÷  | */
/* |______|______|______|______|______|______|                   |______|______|______|______|______|______| */
/* |      |  a   |      |      |      |      |                   |      |      |      |      |      |      | */
/* |  ∨∧  |  ’✓  |  °′  |  ″‴  |  ©®  |  ™℗  |                   |  ∞∝  |  $¢  |  £€  |  ¥¤  |  Ƀ₹  |  ₩₽  | */
/* |______|______|______|______|______|______|_                 _|______|______|______|______|______|______| */
/*                               |      |      |               |      |      |                               */
/*                               | SHFT | SPC  |               | ENTR | SHFT |                               */
/*                               |      |      |               |      |      |                               */
/*                               |______|______|_             _|______|______|                               */
/*                                 |      |      |           |      |      |                                 */
/*                                 | BSPC | LOGIC|           | SYMB |  DEL |                                 */
/*                                 |______|______|_         _|______|______|                                 */
/*                                   | NUM/ |      |       |      | WIN/ |                                   */
/*                                   | DPAD | LALT |       | RCTL | UNIX |                                   */
/*                                   |______|______|       |______|______|                                   */

/* *************************** */
/* Layer 2: Numbers / D-pad    */
/* *************************** */
/*  _________________________________________                     _________________________________________  */
/* |      |      |      |      |      |      |                   |      |      |  ∧   |      |      |      | */
/* |  ^ⁿ  |  *∫  |  1¹  |  2²  |  3³  |  +⁺  |                   |PGUP  | HOME |  |   | END  |PRNSCR|PAUSE | */
/* |______|______|______|______|______|______|                   |______|______|______|______|______|______| */
/* |      |      |      |      |      |      |                   |      |      |  |   |      |      |      | */
/* | TAB  |  0⁰  |  4⁴  |  5⁵  |  6⁶  |  .⁼  |                   | PGDN |  <—  |  ∨   |  —>  |SYSRQ |BREAK | */
/* |______|______|______|______|______|______|                   |______|______|______|______|______|______| */
/* |      |      |      |      |      |      |                   |      |      |      |      |      |      | */
/* | LCTL |  /   |  7⁷  |  8⁸  |  9⁹  |  -⁻  |                   | SLEEP|      |INSERT| MENU |SCRLCK| RALT | */
/* |______|______|______|______|______|______|_                 _|______|______|______|______|______|______| */
/*                               |      |      |               |      |      |                               */
/*                               | SHFT | SPC  |               | ENTR | SHFT |                               */
/*                               |      |      |               |      |      |                               */
/*                               |______|______|_             _|______|______|                               */
/*                                 |      |      |           |      |      |                                 */
/*                                 | BSPC | CMDS |           | SYMB | DEL  |                                 */
/*                                 |______|______|_         _|______|______|                                 */
/*                                   | NUM/ |      |       |      |      |                                   */
/*                                   | DPAD | LALT |       | RCTL | SUPER|                                   */
/*                                   |______|______|       |______|______|                                   */
/* ***************** */
/* Layer 3: Commands */
/* ***************** */
/*  _________________________________________                     _________________________________________  */
/* |      |      |      |      |      |      |                   |      |      |      |      |      |      | */
/* | CAPS |  ^A  |  ^S  |  ^X  |  ^T  |  ^H  |                   | VOLUP|  F1  |  F2  |  F3  |  F4  | FFWD | */
/* |______|______|______|______|______|______|                   |______|______|______|______|______|______| */
/* |      |      |      |      |      |      |                   |      |      |      |      |      |      | */
/* | SHFT |  ^Z  |  ^Y  |  ^C  |  ^V  |  ^F  |                   | MUTE |  F5  |  F6  |  F7  |  F8  |PLAYPS| */
/* |______|______|______|______|______|______|                   |______|______|______|______|______|______| */
/* |      |      |      |      |      |      |                   |      |      |      |      |      |      | */
/* | ENTR |  ^B  |  ^I  |  ^U  |  ^L  |  ^P  |                   | VOLDN|  F9  |  F10 |  F11 |  F12 | RWND | */
/* |______|______|______|______|______|______|_                 _|______|______|______|______|______|______| */
/*                               |      |      |               |      |      |                               */
/*                               | SHFT | SPC  |               | ENTR | SHFT |                               */
/*                               |      |      |               |      |      |                               */
/*                               |______|______|_             _|______|______|                               */
/*                                 |      |      |           |      |      |                                 */
/*                                 | BSPC | CMDS |           | LOGIC|  DEL |                                 */
/*                                 |______|______|_         _|______|______|                                 */
/*                                   | NUM/ |      |       |      |      |                                   */
/*                                   | DPAD | LALT |       | RCTL | SUPER|                                   */
/*                                   |______|______|       |______|______|                                   */
/* *************************** */
/* Layer 4: Logic/Greek        */
/* *************************** */
/*  _________________________________________                     _________________________________________  */
/* |      |      |      |      |      |      |                   |      |      |      |      |      |      | */
/* |  ≡∀  |  ⊆⟨  |  ⊇⟩  |  ¬⊕  |  πΠ  |  ∩∪  |                   |  φΦ  |  γΓ  |  λΛ  |  ρΡ  |  ξΞ  |  ∴∵  | */
/* |______|______|______|______|______|______|                   |______|______|______|______|______|______| */
/* |      |      |      |      |      |      |                   |      |      |      |      |      |      | */
/* |  ⇒→  |  οΟ  |  αΑ  |  εΕ  |  ιΙ  |  υΥ  |                   |  δΔ  |  ηΗ  |  τΤ  |  νΝ  |  σΣ  |  ς∅  | */
/* |______|______|______|______|______|______|                   |______|______|______|______|______|______| */
/* |      |      |      |      |      |      |                   |      |      |      |      |      |      | */
/* |  ⇔↔  |  ≪≦  |  ≫≧  |  θΘ  |  κΚ  |  χΧ  |                   |  βΒ  |  μΜ  |  ωΩ  |  ψΨ  |  ζΖ  |  ⊤⊥  | */
/* |______|______|______|______|______|______|_                 _|______|______|______|______|______|______| */
/*                               |      |      |               |      |      |                               */
/*                               | SHFT | SPC  |               | ENTR | SHFT |                               */
/*                               |      |      |               |      |      |                               */
/*                               |______|______|_             _|______|______|                               */
/*                                 |      |      |           |      |      |                                 */
/*                                 | BSPC | LOGIC|           | LOGIC| DEL  |                                 */
/*                                 |______|______|_         _|______|______|                                 */
/*                                   | NUM/ |      |       |      |      |                                   */
/*                                   | DPAD |  ≔≅  |       |  ⊻∃  |  ⊢⊨  |                                   */
/*                                   |______|______|       |______|______|                                   */

Offline jeffgran

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 126
  • Location: Denver
Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #79 on: Wed, 18 May 2016, 00:07:29 »
Cool man. Don't worry, we're all a little crazy here so you're in good company. :) 

Have you worked with custom firmware before? Do you know what you're going to use to make it? What OS are you primarily on? I'm not sure that all the things you've got in there are possible (not 100% sure they're not possible either though). I used TMK for mine, and I did run into some limitations -- one major one is that you can only have (IIRC) 32 "custom actions" meaning things that are not normal keycodes -- combinations, layer toggles, etc. So I had to be careful and only put in the most important ones. Do you know how to send unicode symbols directly from the keyboard? I haven't tried it, but in my experience it seems that usually comes at the OS layer not at the keyboard hardware/firmware layer...

Anyway, stuff to think about. I'm sure you'll revise as you try it out. I definitely did. I changed around what all the thumb buttons were doing several times before I found a setup that "felt right" for me.

I'm still trying to find the time to make a better wiring diagram. I may just take the picture I took and overlay it with markers or something.

Offline WhittlesJr

  • Posts: 7
Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #80 on: Wed, 18 May 2016, 04:55:52 »
I was planning on using the TMK firmware the same way you did. I did notice the 32-custom-action limitation, so I've been noodling on a way to do what I want without every single weird character being a different custom action. I'll let you know if it works out! Otherwise, I know I can get all the regular keyboard symbols in there in the spots I want and with the layer switching behavior I want, so at a minimum I'll at least have a comfy layout of the essentials.

I was planning on sending alt codes via macros to get all the silly Unicode stuff. (like "alt + 0191" for ¿ on Windows). Each OS does it differently so that's why I included an "OS switcher" key that will keep track of what OS I want to send codes for. (As simple as adding an enum variable that flips each time you press it.)

And a photo or two with labels would be perfect!

EDIT: Ah, I think I found a way. The keymap_call_function user-defined function action gets a key record of what key was pressed and how. I could basically just determine which alt code should be sent based on the key, and that would pretty much reduce each layer to a single custom action.

I'll try, anyway XP
« Last Edit: Wed, 18 May 2016, 05:09:49 by WhittlesJr »

Offline algernon

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #81 on: Wed, 18 May 2016, 05:08:14 »
Do you have a video that shows how you type on the keyboard, by any chance?

Offline TD22057

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #82 on: Wed, 18 May 2016, 19:10:09 »
I was planning on using the TMK firmware the same way you did. I did notice the 32-custom-action limitation, so I've been noodling on a way to do what I want without every single weird character being a different custom action. I'll let you know if it works out! Otherwise, I know I can get all the regular keyboard symbols in there in the spots I want and with the layer switching behavior I want, so at a minimum I'll at least have a comfy layout of the essentials.

I was planning on sending alt codes via macros to get all the silly Unicode stuff. (like "alt + 0191" for ¿ on Windows). Each OS does it differently so that's why I included an "OS switcher" key that will keep track of what OS I want to send codes for. (As simple as adding an enum variable that flips each time you press it.)

And a photo or two with labels would be perfect!

EDIT: Ah, I think I found a way. The keymap_call_function user-defined function action gets a key record of what key was pressed and how. I could basically just determine which alt code should be sent based on the key, and that would pretty much reduce each layer to a single custom action.

I'll try, anyway XP

Check the keyboard/alps64/ example.  It uses actionmap instead of keymap so it doesn't have any limitations.  Every key can be a custom function if you want.  Uses more memory (16 bits/key vs 8 bits/key) but eliminates the 32 function limit completely.

Offline jeffgran

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #83 on: Thu, 19 May 2016, 01:17:25 »
@WhittlesJr:

Here's a link to some schematics I made tonight that should hopefully help figure out how to connect the wiring: http://imgur.com/a/QVU3J . I'm going to add to the first post too.

Also, I don't know if I posted this before but here is a link to another very helpful post that I was following when I did this -- he has a good technique for soldering on the diodes without needing extra wire (you just have to make sure that, electrically speaking, each diode is between two switches (or between a switch and the teensy)): https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/brownfox-step-by-step-t6050.html


@algernon:

I don't but I should! There is one video I took but it doesn't really show real typing... it was to show the difference when I was half-way through putting the "jailhouse blues" on it:


I do want to record myself using emacs on this thing for posterity. :) I'll see if I can get that done.
« Last Edit: Thu, 19 May 2016, 01:23:17 by jeffgran »

Offline WhittlesJr

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #84 on: Thu, 02 June 2016, 16:22:19 »
Just to give you the proud tingly feels, and to prove that there is indeed another ManuForm in the world:



I wanted to feel what it would be like so I stuck on the key switches and caps temporarily.... The physical layout feels amaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaziiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing. My hands just fall right into place on the home row, no bending or contorting of fingers or wrists.

An actual work of art. Really good job, I've giggled just thinking about it. I've got serious, real respect for your work.

So I still have to:
- Receive the controller housing part from Shapeways (they left it out of the first shipment, but I got that sorted and it's on its way)
- Finalize my soft layout. I'm using the carpalx program to optimize a letter layout for the ManuForm. I've got 7-8 processes iterating constantly so  I'll let them run for a few more days before declaring it a final solution.
- Finish my tmkfirmware and figure out how large the compiled file is
- Based off of the size of the firmware file, order either a teensy 2.0 or a 3.2 ( or a ++2.0? And only if I need the extra space from using the action map instead of a key map. I haven't compiled it yet so I'm not sure.)
- Paint the thing (do you have any tips there? Like how to prep it for painting? Should I give it a bath in some soapy water first? I've had some trouble finding much information on this kind of plastic)
- Solder and assemble

So much left to do. I've spent a silly amount of time figuring out the soft layout, having finally discovered carpalx yesterday. I don't mind taking time to get it perfect, though. If you're interested, I'll share the results of my carpalx tests when I decide it's done.
« Last Edit: Thu, 02 June 2016, 16:23:52 by WhittlesJr »

Offline jeffgran

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #85 on: Sat, 04 June 2016, 13:26:10 »
Awesome!

That's funny that Shapeways forgot the top piece -- they forgot the bottom base piece when I ordered mine too. But again, they corrected the problem with no charge, so at least they are nice about it. I guess the fact that there are three distinct pieces all in one print throws off their process somehow.

Re: painting -- the spraypaint I used worked fine, and to date hasn't shown any scratches or peeling or anything -- seems to have set in pretty well. I did not treat the plastic an any way beforehand... well, actually I think I sanded the bottom of the base with some steel wool just to smooth it out a bit, because I put some little rubber stick-on "feet" on the bottom and I thought it would stick better if it was a little smoother. But I just sprayed two light coats -- stay back with the can at least a foot if not more and let the paint just sorta "fall" on there in a light spray, let it be thin and maybe spotty on the first coat, let it dry for whatever the can says, and then do it again until it looks like it's well covered.

Re: soft layout -- I haven't gone as deep as you have. But my for optimizing it was to install a keylogger on myself and then take the output of my normal daily usage and analyze that somehow to figure out what the most common keys are and the most common key sequences are, and then try to optimize the soft layout for that. Because tools like carpalx (correct me if I'm wrong) make assumptions based on the english language about what is the most common key sequences (digraphs/trigraphs/etc), but as programmers we are typing things that aren't english, and especially my symbol layer was what I was wondering about optimizing. But I just decided to stick with qwerty and my "logic-based" symbol layout instead of trying to optimize... for now. All that said, I would be interested in your results just from an academic standpoint :)

Re: firmware -- not 100% sure but I think I remember that when I flashed the TMK firmware onto my teensy 2.0, it only said it was taking like 43% of the memory or something, so I doubt you'll run into space issues.

Excited to see your progress. Keep me/us up-to-date.

Offline lkong

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #86 on: Mon, 29 August 2016, 16:48:55 »
Print it

Bath

Clean

Primer

Paint

Thanks for sharing the design.
Got mine printed today.
« Last Edit: Tue, 30 August 2016, 23:53:56 by lkong »

Offline jeffgran

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #87 on: Tue, 30 August 2016, 19:22:06 »
Awesome! Thanks for sharing your pics. Would love to see the finished board too! :)

Offline lkong

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #88 on: Tue, 30 August 2016, 23:59:28 »
Awesome! Thanks for sharing your pics. Would love to see the finished board too! :)
It takes a Fotus printer about 19 hours to print, about the same amount of time to bath off the support materials.
There might be some issues with how Fotus printed this.
All the M3 holes printed incorrectly into something like M5.
On the far side of the top piece there're two places that have thin walls.
I'll look into that to see if it is print specific.


Offline lkong

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #89 on: Mon, 26 September 2016, 17:56:02 »
Hey Jeff
I'm struggling with the wiring and firmware. It would be great if you could shed some light on this.
1 I've wired all the diodes in parallel.
2 All the diodes are in correct direction
3 Cols and rows are connected to Teensy with ribbon cable so my pin configuration is different from yours
4 right hand side works but crazy ghosting on the left.
I'm also very confused about the keymap_common.h you've shared on github.
According to the matrix.c and the wiring, all the "cols" are rows in the firmware.
E.g. button "q a z" is defined as a row in matrix.c also wired with diodes in parallel, but it's a column in keymap_common.h (K01,K12,K22).
Is that why the keyboard is acting funky?
Thanks

Offline jeffgran

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #90 on: Mon, 26 September 2016, 21:27:21 »
Yeah, if your pins are different, you will have to adjust the matrix.c and the keymap_common.h, I'm pretty sure.

The keymap_common.h just defines a macro that makes it easier to create the real keymap, by changing the "shape" of the keys. The part at the bottom represents the actual rows and columns in your wiring matrix, and the part at the top is how you want it to "appear" in your personal keymap files. So, if your matix is different (sounds like only different on the left hand), you'll have to change the top-left part of the matrix section to match your matrix.

For example, if your row is my column, and vice versa, you'd have to "flip and rotate" the top-left part.

However, if you are not just getting the wrong keys, but actual ghosting, you may have a different problem. I'm not an expert, but that might mean that there is a wiring problem that can't be fixed with software. Or you might have to edit matrix.c and make sure it matches your rows/columns.

When I set mine up, I followed this tutorial (adjusted for my particular setup, of course):

Hardware part:
https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/brownfox-step-by-step-t6050.html

Software part:
https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/how-to-build-your-very-own-keyboard-firmware-t7177.html

Maybe that will help you figure out what is wrong.

(PS, I had the same problem when I first put it together, even when I had the wiring right, it was tough to figure out the exact right configuration for the software, but persevere! You're almost there and it will be worth it! :) )

Offline lkong

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #91 on: Mon, 26 September 2016, 23:04:52 »
Yeah, if your pins are different, you will have to adjust the matrix.c and the keymap_common.h, I'm pretty sure.

The keymap_common.h just defines a macro that makes it easier to create the real keymap, by changing the "shape" of the keys. The part at the bottom represents the actual rows and columns in your wiring matrix, and the part at the top is how you want it to "appear" in your personal keymap files. So, if your matix is different (sounds like only different on the left hand), you'll have to change the top-left part of the matrix section to match your matrix.

For example, if your row is my column, and vice versa, you'd have to "flip and rotate" the top-left part.

However, if you are not just getting the wrong keys, but actual ghosting, you may have a different problem. I'm not an expert, but that might mean that there is a wiring problem that can't be fixed with software. Or you might have to edit matrix.c and make sure it matches your rows/columns.

When I set mine up, I followed this tutorial (adjusted for my particular setup, of course):

Hardware part:
https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/brownfox-step-by-step-t6050.html

Software part:
https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/how-to-build-your-very-own-keyboard-firmware-t7177.html

Maybe that will help you figure out what is wrong.

(PS, I had the same problem when I first put it together, even when I had the wiring right, it was tough to figure out the exact right configuration for the software, but persevere! You're almost there and it will be worth it! :) )


Mystery solved, partially.
I used D6 pin the LED pin for a column that I shouldn't.
On the left side the problem remains, seems that the row 1 and 2 are pressed together all the time.
E.g. pressing f yields f and v.
« Last Edit: Tue, 27 September 2016, 01:26:13 by lkong »

Offline jeffgran

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #92 on: Tue, 27 September 2016, 20:08:13 »
Sounds like it could be a short. Is there any possibility that any of the wires from row 1 and 2 are touching each other anywhere? Maybe at the solder point on the teensy controller? If the solder bleeds over and touches the neighboring contact, that could cause that sort of thing.

Offline lkong

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #93 on: Tue, 27 September 2016, 22:33:17 »
Sounds like it could be a short. Is there any possibility that any of the wires from row 1 and 2 are touching each other anywhere? Maybe at the solder point on the teensy controller? If the solder bleeds over and touches the neighboring contact, that could cause that sort of thing.
This is really strange.
The keyboard works perfect on one computer (Surface Book). And it is ghosting on the other one (Win10 desktop).
Ive compiled and flashed it with newest tmk core.

Offline jeffgran

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #94 on: Tue, 27 September 2016, 23:05:52 »
I agree... that is very strange. Maybe try posting (or searching) in the tmk thread and see if hasu or anybody has run into that before? Seems like maybe a Windows issue? (We programmers love to blame Microsoft products for our problems ;) )

Offline TomBodet

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #95 on: Wed, 28 September 2016, 07:27:12 »
Sounds like it could be a short. Is there any possibility that any of the wires from row 1 and 2 are touching each other anywhere? Maybe at the solder point on the teensy controller? If the solder bleeds over and touches the neighboring contact, that could cause that sort of thing.
This is really strange.
The keyboard works perfect on one computer (Surface Book). And it is ghosting on the other one (Win10 desktop).
Ive compiled and flashed it with newest tmk core.

Rule out (or confirm) the OS by trying any random linux live-CD on the desktop?

Offline lkong

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #96 on: Wed, 28 September 2016, 11:31:13 »
Sounds like it could be a short. Is there any possibility that any of the wires from row 1 and 2 are touching each other anywhere? Maybe at the solder point on the teensy controller? If the solder bleeds over and touches the neighboring contact, that could cause that sort of thing.
This is really strange.
The keyboard works perfect on one computer (Surface Book). And it is ghosting on the other one (Win10 desktop).
Ive compiled and flashed it with newest tmk core.

Rule out (or confirm) the OS by trying any random linux live-CD on the desktop?
I think it's OS independent.
Works on Surface Book, also inside a linux VM:


But not the other machine

Offline alkozu

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #97 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 14:33:33 »
The keyboard looks amazing. I have access to some 3d printer and was thinking about giving it a try and finally learning how to use a 3d printer. If I wanted to print it how should I proceed? What is the best material? Thanks!

Offline lkong

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #98 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 21:54:52 »
Bug fixed. I double booked B2 pin.
Build log here: http://imgur.com/a/Qr8qj

Offline Phenix

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #99 on: Fri, 30 September 2016, 08:17:28 »
amazing work.
Would love to buy one assembled to try out the Layout
Winter is coming.

Offline Fictiouz

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #100 on: Fri, 30 September 2016, 08:21:10 »
This thing looks so awesome. I don't know if I can handle a vertically staggered layout yet though. I want to try!
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Offline jeffgran

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #101 on: Sat, 01 October 2016, 11:43:25 »
@lkong awesome! Thanks for posting your build pictures, it's so cool to see another one being built. :) Hope you like the finished product. FYI I tried DSA caps at first, but I liked the feel of the board WAY better with the sculpted DCS caps, with the tall "number row" ones on the top row and the regular middle/bottom row ones on the middle/bottom rows.

Offline lkong

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #102 on: Tue, 04 October 2016, 23:44:18 »
@lkong awesome! Thanks for posting your build pictures, it's so cool to see another one being built. :) Hope you like the finished product. FYI I tried DSA caps at first, but I liked the feel of the board WAY better with the sculpted DCS caps, with the tall "number row" ones on the top row and the regular middle/bottom row ones on the middle/bottom rows.

I just used what's available in my grab bag.
Yes the top rows could use some tilting. If there's more space I'd probably go with SA caps with nicely curved R1s.

I'm playing with they layout right now. I put number and arrows in the second layer, So for most symbols are assigned to the same fingers as my ergodox.
Also arrows are map to HJKL as I'm a vim user.

If I can do any redesign, I'd probably put another row on top for numbers and move up pinkie clusters by half a key space.

Offline nhopubrid

  • Posts: 19
Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #103 on: Wed, 05 October 2016, 08:31:52 »
I do want to record myself using emacs on this thing for posterity. :) I'll see if I can get that done.

Do it! Top view, please. :)

Offline jeffgran

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #104 on: Fri, 11 November 2016, 22:24:49 »
I do want to record myself using emacs on this thing for posterity. :) I'll see if I can get that done.

Do it! Top view, please. :)

As you requested! Took me a long time but I finally found the combination of time, motivation, equipment, and... remembering to do this. :)


Offline Tshort

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #105 on: Mon, 27 February 2017, 19:05:49 »
I took a first stab at printing half of a split ManuForm. This is with G20 keycaps.

161610-0

My main reason for splitting is that a half keyboard will fit on the bed of the 3d printers at the makerspace I belong to. I added two keys, but I goofed on the placement and angle, so these keycaps don't fit on those two keys.

The thumb cluster is fabulous. It's far better than anything else I've tried! That makes me want to keep trying. The quality of the print was "okay". I printed it with 0.2-mm layers. The main thing I don't like is the placement of the columns for the pinky and middle finger. I'd rather have displacement in the Z direction instead of the Y direction. I've got a Maltron shell, and I really like the placement of the main finger keys (the ManuForm has a better thumb cluster).

If I ever get a design I like, I'll post the files somewhere. I'm a beginner at 3d modeling and at 3d printing, so it may take a while. I've been trying to use Blender for this.

Offline jeffgran

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #106 on: Sun, 05 March 2017, 18:07:47 »
Cool! Nice work. I had the same issue (caps wouldn't fit) on some of my prototypes too.

I guess I should try to get my hands on a maltron to see if I agree with you that the finger layout is better. I based this mostly off of my Kinesis Advantage... but now that I think of it, it has z-displacement too. I forget why I made the decision to go Y instead of Z, just by accident maybe or because it was easier to model that at the time.

Anyway, thanks for the picture and report, it's fun to see what people do with this. :)

Offline Tshort

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #107 on: Sat, 11 March 2017, 16:03:06 »
For my split design, I switched gears because I couldn't easily get Blender to do what I wanted. I adapted the Dactyl keyboard code instead.



I tried to match the ManuForm thumb cluster as closely as possible. It's still not quite right. The pinky and thumb don't align right for my hands. I need to rotate the thumb cluster or shift the pinky keys down like the ManuForm. The nice thing about this design is that you can easily adjust the number of rows and columns as well as the tilts. Here is the code along with model files:

https://github.com/tshort/dactyl-keyboard

It still needs a few more iterations, but it's coming along.

Offline ju6ju8Oo

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #108 on: Mon, 05 March 2018, 18:47:11 »
Is there a version for a thumb-fan, instead of a cluster?

Offline Tshort

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #109 on: Mon, 05 March 2018, 18:50:52 »
I haven't seen a fanned-thumb version.

Offline ju6ju8Oo

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #110 on: Sun, 11 March 2018, 20:41:57 »
what're the benefits of using an RJ9 jack instead of TRRS? I plan to build an TRRS version, will it work?

Offline Tshort

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #111 on: Mon, 12 March 2018, 06:09:37 »
As far as connections TRRS will work. Folks have had connection issues with it.

https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard/issues/7

Offline Askesemann

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #112 on: Fri, 08 February 2019, 09:35:43 »
Hi,

I'm currently building a ManuForm. I've fallen in love with the design a while ago when I researched ergonomic keyboards and now I've gotten my employer to sponsor the parts. :) It's the first keyboard I've ever built myself and I'm already dreading having to debug it, but putting it together is a lot of fun and I'm really excited to try it out when it's finished. Thanks so much for posting everything here! Great work!

Manuel
« Last Edit: Fri, 08 February 2019, 09:39:24 by Askesemann »

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #113 on: Sat, 09 February 2019, 06:20:56 »
It's the first keyboard I've ever built myself and I'm already dreading having to debug it, but putting it together is a lot of fun and I'm really excited to try it out when it's finished.

I hate to say it Manuel but I think your diodes are all wrong - the ends with a black bar need to be connected rather than having them all in a line.  Please see picture below borrowed from http://trauring.org (no affiliation, just giving credit)

212549-0

You're a lucky guy(?) to get your employer to sponsor a custom board!
« Last Edit: Sat, 09 February 2019, 06:22:51 by suicidal_orange »
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Offline vvp

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #114 on: Sat, 09 February 2019, 10:26:42 »
The orientation of diodes depends on the firmware - whether it uses positive or negative logic.

Sometimes it may depend on hardware as well. It is so in case of external pull-up / pull-down resistors. But hardly anybody uses external resistors for this.

Offline kikan

  • Posts: 16
Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #115 on: Tue, 05 March 2019, 11:07:07 »
It's the first keyboard I've ever built myself and I'm already dreading having to debug it, but putting it together is a lot of fun and I'm really excited to try it out when it's finished.

I hate to say it Manuel but I think your diodes are all wrong - the ends with a black bar need to be connected rather than having them all in a line.  Please see picture below borrowed from http://trauring.org (no affiliation, just giving credit)

(Attachment Link)

You're a lucky guy(?) to get your employer to sponsor a custom board!

Hi suicidal_orange,

Isn't Askesemann following this guide correctly ? => https://imgur.com/a/QVU3J

I'm just trying to understand, since I'm quite tempted to try and built one myself but would rather go QMK than TMK since I wouldn't be able to program it if not for QMK.

Regards,

K

Offline Askesemann

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #116 on: Tue, 12 March 2019, 05:15:32 »
Yeah, I'm a bit confused now. I've changed the diodes in the meantime, but I agree that the schematics look more like what I had before. I think I 'll just finish it up now and see whether it works.

Offline Askesemann

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #117 on: Sat, 16 March 2019, 05:06:07 »
Hallelujah, it does work! i am typing this on the ManuForm right now. ;D The only thing that I had to fix was the connection of the bottom row to the teensy. I had gotten that wrong because I had looked at the schematics on my mobile where the label was all blurry. :-[ So, I'll start practicing now. It's still slow going, but it feels amazing already. Thanks again to Jeff and everyone else for your input, especially suicidal_orange for the hint about the diodes!

Offline keyceptoRR

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #118 on: Thu, 02 May 2019, 08:37:14 »
Hi, I have a question about ease of use/ergonomics... When writing code I usually not only navigate with arrows/home/end but also use modifiers, e.g. Shift-End to select till the end of line, Alt-Shift-Left to go to previous location in the IDE, Ctrl-Shift-Down to go to another workspace, Shift-Down to select a block of text, etc... how about these combinations? I would have to press the identifier button as well, is that really convenient?

Offline darrenph1

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Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #119 on: Thu, 04 July 2019, 10:20:25 »
So I'm in the process of changing up the code and have it to where I want it but I think I'm stuck. I prefer a good amount of tent. I noticed when I change the code, the angle of the main keypad will tent but the thumb cluster just basically moves vertical. It doesn't angle out to match the tent if that makes sense.

The only thing I've been able to do is raise the different section but it's not really the right way. Is this even possible?



EDIT: Nevermind I finally found the section:

(defn thumb-tr-place [shape]
  (->> shape
      ;  (rotate (deg2rad  10) [1 0 0])
      ;  (rotate (deg2rad -23) [0 1 0])
      ;  (rotate (deg2rad  -3) [0 0 1])
       (rotate (deg2rad  25) [1 0 0])
       (rotate (deg2rad -23) [0 1 0])
       (rotate (deg2rad  10) [0 0 1])
       (translate thumborigin)
       (translate [-12 -16 3])
       ))
« Last Edit: Thu, 04 July 2019, 11:13:44 by darrenph1 »

Offline vvp

  • Posts: 886
Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #120 on: Thu, 04 July 2019, 14:02:48 »
I solved angles by printing a stand which adds some tilting/tenting to  a base model which is designed as flat as possible.

Offline darrenph1

  • Posts: 19
Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #121 on: Thu, 04 July 2019, 15:58:07 »
I solved angles by printing a stand which adds some tilting/tenting to  a base model which is designed as flat as possible.

I might end up doing that. I wanted to have it as clean as possible with the tent integrated so there 1 less part to worry about. I'm gonna try another 2 prints modifying the code and if I can't dial it in I'll try the tented base.


Offline vvp

  • Posts: 886
Re: ManuForm: custom contoured 50% ergo board
« Reply #122 on: Fri, 05 July 2019, 01:57:49 »
A separate tent has an advantage that you can change it later on by printing only a different stand.