Author Topic: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...  (Read 119573 times)

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Offline baldgye

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #450 on: Mon, 21 December 2015, 12:53:48 »
So that update was for a technical preview which I don't remember signing up for... once it had finished it proceeded to uninstall Open TTD... -_-

Offline zombimuncha

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #451 on: Mon, 21 December 2015, 13:28:07 »
Updated the wifes netbook to 10. It's slower. No real problems to speak of, other than being slower than 8.1. I installed Spybot to deal with the telemetry.
Interestingly, when investigating the slowness I found that HP provides some BIOS updates for this machine if it has W8 or 8.1, but you can't download even them if you (tell them you) have W10. Do you think I should just tell HP I have win8.1, as if downloading the BIOS update for use on another machine, then install it anyway?

In terms of how it looks - I prefer 7. I just really like the "glass" look of Vista and 7. I guess 10 is a little better looking than either of the 8's tho.
« Last Edit: Mon, 21 December 2015, 13:30:08 by zombimuncha »

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #452 on: Mon, 18 April 2016, 18:23:36 »
Alright, boys and girls. You know that I hate to necro threads, but this is the place to accomplish what I want to do.

After considerable ****-footing and procrastination, I am ready to move my big primary 60-pound full-tower assembly up to Windows 10.

I have done a clean fresh format-and-install of 10 on a 5-year-old Toshiba laptop that came with 7 built-in, so I have endured the general process.

My concerns are procedural and specific: I have a plethora of "drives" (SSD, multiple conventional Winchesters, optical drives, card readers, etc) but the crucial central issue is that I want to have the boot disc C:\ be a small-ish SSD (fresh clean formatted) for program files *only* and large conventional drive D:\ (fresh clean formatted) for all the "user" and "data" files.

When I do the initial install, as a matter of course, I un-plug everything but the basics until the OS is stable (also unplugging the freestanding Linux Mint drive that I access via BIOS by changing the "1st boot device").

I find this:  http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/1964-users-folder-move-location-windows-10-a.html  which seems overly complex and kludgy, but having moved "user" locations to D:\ after the fact in past installs has left me with another set of users on C:\ that certain programs still use from time to time. If this procedure makes the re-direction to D:\ ironclad and permanent then I am happy to do it, but it seems unnecessary.

Could I just work directly from the screen (shown below) and reset the path to D: without all that extraneous stuff?
This is a clean install with nothing to lose anywhere in the process.

Or if there is a cleaner and more simple process, I would be glad to hear it. Once 10 is installed and the users are set in stone on D:\ I can handle the rest of the grunt work.

Thanks! Harry



"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline ideus

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #453 on: Mon, 18 April 2016, 18:34:31 »
By reading the thread I just feel well that I have never even tried to upgrade to Win 10 from my Win 7 ultimate machine, it runs smoothly, stable and fast. I just wonder what am I missing by keeping this 7 instead of going with the pain to upgrade, but the headaches.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #454 on: Mon, 18 April 2016, 19:17:21 »
I have never even tried to upgrade to Win 10

I hear you. I am a crusty old curmudgeon looking at my 64th birthday in a couple of months, and I am firmly of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" belief.

But with my Windows 7 Professional install getting quite long in the tooth and slower and kludgier by the day, I need to do something.
Re-installing 7 just doesn't seem to make much sense, and denying the future is never a winning strategy.
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline ideus

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #455 on: Mon, 18 April 2016, 19:37:42 »
I have never even tried to upgrade to Win 10

I hear you. I am a crusty old curmudgeon looking at my 64th birthday in a couple of months, and I am firmly of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" belief.

But with my Windows 7 Professional install getting quite long in the tooth and slower and kludgier by the day, I need to do something.
Re-installing 7 just doesn't seem to make much sense, and denying the future is never a winning strategy.

Congratulations in advance for your birthday and also for your young soul that wants to stay updated. Meanwhile I can keep my old OS, maybe until my next new upcoming PC.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #456 on: Mon, 18 April 2016, 19:43:50 »

and also for your young soul that wants to stay updated


Please tell this to everyone who is not committed to supporting Bernie Sanders 100%.
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #457 on: Mon, 18 April 2016, 19:46:08 »


I have never even tried to upgrade to Win 10

I hear you. I am a crusty old curmudgeon looking at my 64th birthday in a couple of months, and I am firmly of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" belief.

But with my Windows 7 Professional install getting quite long in the tooth and slower and kludgier by the day, I need to do something.
Re-installing 7 just doesn't seem to make much sense, and denying the future is never a winning strategy.

I like windows 10 so far but I used a program to get back the 'xp' like start menu and another program to address some of the privacy concerns.





Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #458 on: Mon, 18 April 2016, 20:32:03 »
PS - the other question is how to set D:\ to the 2nd hard drive rather than the DVD optical drive early enough in the process before the users are set
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #459 on: Tue, 19 April 2016, 09:25:30 »
Btw.. is there a REALLY GOOD SOLID WAY to disable all privacy ripping / snooping features completely and for sure?

Or are you basically screwed with Win10?
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #460 on: Tue, 19 April 2016, 09:59:48 »
These things get to be a huge wall of TL;DR

But here are a few posts in this thread that I have noted that may be helpful:

287  Ooobly
346  godly_music
360  Kishy


And the always-insightful Leslieann posted this in another thread:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77550.msg2022838#msg2022838
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline Altis

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #461 on: Tue, 19 April 2016, 16:25:17 »
For me, it's the auto-updates. I accidentally burned up a ton of cellular data by tethering my phone to my Windows 10 laptop and not paying attention.

It also burnt up the battery to the point where I couldn't use the machine (it's old and doesn't get much battery life).
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Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #462 on: Tue, 19 April 2016, 17:06:33 »
For me, it's the auto-updates. I accidentally burned up a ton of cellular data by tethering my phone to my Windows 10 laptop and not paying attention.

It also burnt up the battery to the point where I couldn't use the machine (it's old and doesn't get much battery life).

Man that sucks. Not to sound like a fanboy, but my iPhone just doesn't download updates when I'm on cell (luckily).
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Offline Altis

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #463 on: Tue, 19 April 2016, 21:05:10 »
For me, it's the auto-updates. I accidentally burned up a ton of cellular data by tethering my phone to my Windows 10 laptop and not paying attention.

It also burnt up the battery to the point where I couldn't use the machine (it's old and doesn't get much battery life).

Man that sucks. Not to sound like a fanboy, but my iPhone just doesn't download updates when I'm on cell (luckily).

I've always been quite critical of the way that Apple pretty much forces its updates on everyone, sometimes causing irreversible problems as you can't downgrade.

Now Microsoft has taken it up a notch further. It's a race to the bottom.

Linux looks more and more delicious by the day.
WhiteFox (Gateron Brown) -- Realforce 87U 45g -- Realforce 104UG (Hi Pro 45g) -- Realforce 108US 30g JIS -- HHKB Pro 2 -- IBM Model M ('90) -- IBM Model M SSK ('87) -- NMB RT-101 & RT-8255C+ (Hi-Tek Space Invaders) -- Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blue Alps) -- KPT-102 (KPT Alps) -- KUL ES-87 (62/65g Purple Zealios) -- CM QFR (MX Red) -- Apple Aluminum BT -- Realforce 23u Numpad -- Logitech K740 -- QSENN DT-35 -- Zenith Z-150 (Green Alps)

Offline rowdy

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #464 on: Tue, 19 April 2016, 21:54:21 »
Btw.. is there a REALLY GOOD SOLID WAY to disable all privacy ripping / snooping features completely and for sure?

Or are you basically screwed with Win10?

Get a Mac or install GNU/Linux.

Setting up a Mac at least Apple lead you through the process of what to share and what not to share.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #465 on: Wed, 20 April 2016, 04:06:21 »
Btw.. is there a REALLY GOOD SOLID WAY to disable all privacy ripping / snooping features completely and for sure?

Or are you basically screwed with Win10?

Get a Mac or install GNU/Linux.

Setting up a Mac at least Apple lead you through the process of what to share and what not to share.

So basically, there is no way to know for sure that MS is not ringing home?
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #466 on: Wed, 20 April 2016, 05:27:40 »
Btw.. is there a REALLY GOOD SOLID WAY to disable all privacy ripping / snooping features completely and for sure?

Or are you basically screwed with Win10?

Get a Mac or install GNU/Linux.

Setting up a Mac at least Apple lead you through the process of what to share and what not to share.

So basically, there is no way to know for sure that MS is not ringing home?

Exactly.

Actually you'd be pretty sure they are sending stuff back.  They read all your Skype messages and follow links you post - they have already admitted to that.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #467 on: Wed, 20 April 2016, 06:37:29 »
After considerable ****-footing and procrastination, I am ready to move my big primary 60-pound full-tower assembly up to Windows 10.
My last big box was 120, and then I found small and light was soooo much more easy to move around the house. It's nice not needing casters or a second person. Seriously, it was 120 pounds. It was a Supermicro double wide server case designed to survive a nuke attack. Then I lined the inside with 3/16in plex, and huge water cooling system...  I decided to go the other way on my next system after having to lift it into a pickup when I moved.

My concerns are procedural and specific: I have a plethora of "drives" (SSD, multiple conventional Winchesters, optical drives, card readers, etc) but the crucial central issue is that I want to have the boot disc C:\ be a small-ish SSD (fresh clean formatted) for program files *only* and large conventional drive D:\ (fresh clean formatted) for all the "user" and "data" files.

When I do the initial install, as a matter of course, I un-plug everything but the basics until the OS is stable (also unplugging the freestanding Linux Mint drive that I access via BIOS by changing the "1st boot device").

I find this:  http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/1964-users-folder-move-location-windows-10-a.html  which seems overly complex and kludgy, but having moved "user" locations to D:\ after the fact in past installs has left me with another set of users on C:\ that certain programs still use from time to time. If this procedure makes the re-direction to D:\ ironclad and permanent then I am happy to do it, but it seems unnecessary.

Could I just work directly from the screen (shown below) and reset the path to D: without all that extraneous stuff?
This is a clean install with nothing to lose anywhere in the process.

Or if there is a cleaner and more simple process, I would be glad to hear it. Once 10 is installed and the users are set in stone on D:\ I can handle the rest of the grunt work.

I'll be honest with you...
Don't do it, save yourself a lot of trouble and just get a larger ssd. It stinks, I know, but trust me on this.

There are certain things in many programs that are hard coded to the stock location, and not just aftermarket software, even MS messes this up on occasion. You will get games that refuse to run, random errors... For the most part it will work, and you may get an error every now and then and chalk it up to random errors. It's not. I've been down this road, it doesn't work well because programming standards are not all that good.

If you absolutely have to do it though, take another route. You can mount a second drive in a folder. So you can make the second drive part of program files or a sub directory of it.

But... and it's a big one.
Every drive you add and put system files on is another drive that can bring down your system. When you do this, drives become a chain, and only as strong as the weakest link. If that drive fails, it can take down the rest of the system depending on what's on it.
 
And remember, each drive you add, increases the chance of just such a failure happening.  This is why people discourage raid zero (striping) use, it significantly increases your odds of system failure. 


PS - the other question is how to set D:\ to the 2nd hard drive rather than the DVD optical drive early enough in the process before the users are set
After you get it installed and before you do anything else, get into admin tools, computer management, disk management. Right click on the dvd, change the drive letter to any other letter, then change the second drive to D, then change the DVD back to E. Done.
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Offline Diokhan

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #468 on: Wed, 20 April 2016, 06:59:06 »
I'm working on a probook 650 G1 and since I've updated to windows 10 it keeps crashing on video drivers. 
Tried everything I could find.. Seem I'm going to install windows 7 again -.-

No problems on my PC at home tho.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #469 on: Wed, 20 April 2016, 07:10:35 »
For me, it's the auto-updates. I accidentally burned up a ton of cellular data by tethering my phone to my Windows 10 laptop and not paying attention.

It also burnt up the battery to the point where I couldn't use the machine (it's old and doesn't get much battery life).
There is a tool that lets you control updates now, at least until MS decides to block it with an update.
http://betanews.com/2016/02/22/control-windows-10-updates/




Btw.. is there a REALLY GOOD SOLID WAY to disable all privacy ripping / snooping features completely and for sure?
Or are you basically screwed with Win10?
Get a Mac or install GNU/Linux.
Setting up a Mac at least Apple lead you through the process of what to share and what not to share.
So basically, there is no way to know for sure that MS is not ringing home?
Exactly.
Actually you'd be pretty sure they are sending stuff back.  They read all your Skype messages and follow links you post - they have already admitted to that.
There are tools that block it the spying, but to verify it you need a proxy server.

While it can function without MS, the more you do to stop it, the more crippled it becomes.
By the time I got mine to stop calling home, I was getting an error message every time I installed something (it was able to be bypassed) and an error any time I installed new hardware and it wanted a driver, which was not easily bypassed.

They tied many things into the commonly used systems, so it's not practical to block everything, at least at this time. People are working on stripping MS's control, but MS is constantly pushing back. As soon as a technique starts to become popular, they will disable it. Just like they did regarding feedback.

They began to really nag beta testers regarding feedback, why did they stop providing feedback? Because MS didn't want to hear what we had to say, who knew we were supposed to like ads in our face and our systems being reset every major update? So now, MS is removing the ability to ignore. Which means MS will get again be inundated with feedback they won't bother to listen to.



And don't think Win7 and 8 is immune, they have traced the Win10 spying modules being inserted into Win7 as far back as July of last year. Over the next few months they slowly inserted the same telemetry as Win10 has into Win7, 8, and 8.1. There are tools to remove and block this and it works well, but that's because they were patched in, unlike Win10 where it was natively built in.

Mac is not entirely immune either, it's not like Apple discloses anything. It's probably safe to say Mac is clear of this sort of meddling, for the moment, but it could be implemented easily enough as they already did it to IOS years ago. They are slowly walling off that garden more and more, at which point, they have you locked in. And Linux... there has been at least one secret attempt to insert a backdoor into the kernel and Linus claims he has been asked by agencies to do it. And that's not counting the Canonical/Amazon deal a few ears ago which drove MANY users from Ubuntu.

However, this is all moot to a point anyhow.
You can keep all your data away from MS, Google or Apple (good luck!) but as soon as you send it onto the internet, you're wide open again anyhow. Does it really matter if MS knows you went onto the internet to visit Facebook and Twitter after passing through half a dozen servers and a public wifi run by a mega corp like AT&T, all of whom are selling your browsing history and personal info as well? At least MS tells you what they are doing, they may be laughing when they do it, but at least they told you... Kind of.

Pick your battles.
If you want Win10, accept that you will need to make a choice of a smooth running system, or telemetry and that your ability to choose may be revoked at a moments notice.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #470 on: Thu, 21 April 2016, 20:58:53 »
Well, finally I bit the bullet and did it. All-in-all, it was not too bad. I set myself up for some headaches by shuffling multiple hardware components and tweaking and re-tweaking them (starting the Windows install over from scratch a couple of times, ugh). It took the better part of 2 days to get it all squared away, the usual.

Windows acted like it was rejecting my product key, but after it ran through a couple of updates it is reporting that Windows is activated without me doing anything else.

The convoluted process that I had found and reported in an earlier post for relocating the user profiles to D: was a pain but it worked well and I feel that it will end up being more comprehensive and reliable than doing it after the fact like I have done in the past. The instructions and screen shots were not exactly what I saw, but the process worked. And, from within the audit mode, you can reassign drive letters before you finalize where the user profiles go.

My remaining frustrations are pretty minor. Finding drivers for my ancient scanner (which still works perfectly) has been very tricky since XP, and I think that I may have to let go. I am dual-booting into Mint 17.3 which finds and operates the scanner instantly, of course.

I switched to AVG anti-virus and it is being extremely obstreperous about refusing to let me install various free software, even when I specifically click "allow" and it says that it will do it. That is probably why I stopped using it a few years ago in favor of Avast, and I may have to go back.

I have the desktop looking reasonable, but I am totally frustrated by there being no actual "start menu" type situation where I can actually see a list of my programs and choose one. That thing about "just go into the slot and start typing the name of something" is unbelievably cumbersome and wasteful of time and effort.

Now to see how I feel in a couple of weeks.
 
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline Lain1911

  • God of the Wired
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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #471 on: Thu, 21 April 2016, 21:19:45 »
Waiting for Windows 9 update. :D

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #472 on: Thu, 21 April 2016, 21:28:31 »
I switched to AVG anti-virus and it is being extremely obstreperous about refusing to let me install various free software, even when I specifically click "allow" and it says that it will do it. That is probably why I stopped using it a few years ago in favor of Avast, and I may have to go back.
That was why I ditched AVG (for Avast).

A program should not refused to do what I specifically tell it to do.
When you tell it to ignore, allow, and even not scan, and it still stops you from doing what needs to be done, I'm done. It also became quite bloated and a resource hog.
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Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #473 on: Sat, 23 April 2016, 14:28:18 »
Btw.. is there a REALLY GOOD SOLID WAY to disable all privacy ripping / snooping features completely and for sure?

Or are you basically screwed with Win10?

Get a Mac or install GNU/Linux.

Setting up a Mac at least Apple lead you through the process of what to share and what not to share.

So basically, there is no way to know for sure that MS is not ringing home?

Exactly.

Actually you'd be pretty sure they are sending stuff back.  They read all your Skype messages and follow links you post - they have already admitted to that.

This sh*t is really getting out of hand. I just want an OS to game on and being left alone. Probably stick to my PS4 then and cry about not being able to play FPS'es properly with a mouse and kb.
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Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #474 on: Sat, 23 April 2016, 14:40:14 »
There are tools that block it the spying, but to verify it you need a proxy server.

While it can function without MS, the more you do to stop it, the more crippled it becomes.
By the time I got mine to stop calling home, I was getting an error message every time I installed something (it was able to be bypassed) and an error any time I installed new hardware and it wanted a driver, which was not easily bypassed.

So basically... for a driver installation it even rings home? So they made it so ingrained (like IE in win95/98) that you can't really use windows without allowing it to ring home. Interesting that nobody sued MS already like they did with the IE/netscape lawsuit in the 90's (not that that helped in any way).

They tied many things into the commonly used systems, so it's not practical to block everything, at least
 at this time. People are working on stripping MS's control, but MS is constantly pushing back. As soon as a technique starts to become popular, they will disable it. Just like they did regarding feedback.

This is really getting out of hand man.

They began to really nag beta testers regarding feedback, why did they stop providing feedback? Because MS didn't want to hear what we had to say, who knew we were supposed to like ads in our face and our systems being reset every major update? So now, MS is removing the ability to ignore. Which means MS will get again be inundated with feedback they won't bother to listen to.

Yeah, what is the purpose of feedback then anyways. It seems like MS is only playing politics as opposed to actually making windows do OS stuff.

And don't think Win7 and 8 is immune, they have traced the Win10 spying modules being inserted into Win7 as far back as July of last year. Over the next few months they slowly inserted the same telemetry as Win10 has into Win7, 8, and 8.1. There are tools to remove and block this and it works well, but that's because they were patched in, unlike Win10 where it was natively built in.

I really didn't knew that. That is scary stuff. So they basically backported telemetry.

Mac is not entirely immune either, it's not like Apple discloses anything. It's probably safe to say Mac is clear of this sort of meddling, for the moment, but it could be implemented easily enough as they already did it to IOS years ago. They are slowly walling off that garden more and more, at which point, they have you locked in. And Linux... there has been at least one secret attempt to insert a backdoor into the kernel and Linus claims he has been asked by agencies to do it. And that's not counting the Canonical/Amazon deal a few ears ago which drove MANY users from Ubuntu.

Yeah, I didn't really expect linux to go this route. I hope at least linux will remain a somewhat viable option.

However, this is all moot to a point anyhow.
You can keep all your data away from MS, Google or Apple (good luck!) but as soon as you send it onto the internet, you're wide open again anyhow. Does it really matter if MS knows you went onto the internet to visit Facebook and Twitter after passing through half a dozen servers and a public wifi run by a mega corp like AT&T, all of whom are selling your browsing history and personal info as well? At least MS tells you what they are doing, they may be laughing when they do it, but at least they told you... Kind of.

I get what you are saying. But this doesn't justify anything MS is doing. At least I have to ACTIVELY go on facebook and other sites (google) to get companies to spy on me. With MS, the only thing I have to do is boot up windows. Now I come to think of it, the fact that MS builds this spying into the OS, data harvesting companies like google and amazon and the lot apparently didn't find it enough to follow people's browser behavior and they now want OS behavior as well. So there must be a market for OS spying. Assuming, of course, that it isn't for the sole purpose of the us government and that the US is basically paying / summoning MS to build in backdoors and spying.

It sounds like there is no way back, no real solution. I have thought about building a linux firewall, which serves as a proxy. Literally log every connection coming in and coming out, try to find human readable names for the ips. Do deep packet inspection and find out wtf is going on these days. But that would be really a lot of work.
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Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #475 on: Sat, 23 April 2016, 14:42:24 »
I'll be honest with you...
Don't do it, save yourself a lot of trouble and just get a larger ssd. It stinks, I know, but trust me on this.

If you absolutely have to do it though, take another route. You can mount a second drive in a folder. So you can make the second drive part of program files or a sub directory of it.

I may be entirely wrong about this, as I've used windows for the last time back in 2006 or so. But wasn't there an option for symlinks since win xp or so? So couldn't you just basically symlink C:\Program Files to an external disk location and that's it?
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Offline xtrafrood

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #476 on: Sat, 23 April 2016, 15:13:26 »
I'll be honest with you...
Don't do it, save yourself a lot of trouble and just get a larger ssd. It stinks, I know, but trust me on this.

If you absolutely have to do it though, take another route. You can mount a second drive in a folder. So you can make the second drive part of program files or a sub directory of it.

I may be entirely wrong about this, as I've used windows for the last time back in 2006 or so. But wasn't there an option for symlinks since win xp or so? So couldn't you just basically symlink C:\Program Files to an external disk location and that's it?

I think the file hierarchy has changed a bit since then. A lot of programs depend on temporary files that are dropped into the user directory. It could totally be done but that could create confusion with some programs that would be launched from that new drive.

To do it one would have to recreate those subdirectories (hidden, temporary, etc.) that are needed by all the programs in the program files folder and copy whatever files are needed. I hope I'm not making this sound easy. I'm just relaying what I've already done. I'm sure other programs depend on a net of folders that are outside of the program files folder :/

Unless creating a symlink (Windows 10 uses mklink I guess) just links up all of those dependencies. Seems so much easier to use a larger sized drive.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #477 on: Sat, 23 April 2016, 16:51:23 »
The link to tenforums that I linked in post #453 worked great as far as moving the "users" etc to D: at the earliest possible point in the game, although the screens did not always look and behave exactly as described there, it was functionally pretty much the same.

And I ignored the "imaging/reboot" step and it did not matter.
 
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #478 on: Sat, 23 April 2016, 16:53:31 »
I'll be honest with you...
Don't do it, save yourself a lot of trouble and just get a larger ssd. It stinks, I know, but trust me on this.

If you absolutely have to do it though, take another route. You can mount a second drive in a folder. So you can make the second drive part of program files or a sub directory of it.

I may be entirely wrong about this, as I've used windows for the last time back in 2006 or so. But wasn't there an option for symlinks since win xp or so? So couldn't you just basically symlink C:\Program Files to an external disk location and that's it?

I think the file hierarchy has changed a bit since then. A lot of programs depend on temporary files that are dropped into the user directory. It could totally be done but that could create confusion with some programs that would be launched from that new drive.

To do it one would have to recreate those subdirectories (hidden, temporary, etc.) that are needed by all the programs in the program files folder and copy whatever files are needed. I hope I'm not making this sound easy. I'm just relaying what I've already done. I'm sure other programs depend on a net of folders that are outside of the program files folder :/

Unless creating a symlink (Windows 10 uses mklink I guess) just links up all of those dependencies. Seems so much easier to use a larger sized drive.

Hmm yeah sounds like in Windows a larger drive is the wants go. In Linux, the os doesn't differentiate between real folders, files, or symlinks mostly, so it would work. But Windows is different of course.
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #479 on: Sat, 23 April 2016, 20:34:07 »
So basically... for a driver installation it even rings home? So they made it so ingrained (like IE in win95/98) that you can't really use windows without allowing it to ring home. Interesting that nobody sued MS already like they did with the IE/netscape lawsuit in the 90's (not that that helped in any way).
It rings home for every program install as well, the "smartscreen" they created for IE to make sure websites were safe has been redone to include drivers and programs.

By the way, MS didn't fear the I.E. lawsuit and they won't fear this if it does. By bundling IE with Windows in the EU, MS was making $10mil per day while the fine was $1mil per day. Which is why it took them 6 months to release a patch/version without, by which time they had put out enough F.U.D. to convince people they didn't want Windows without I.E. As a result, they sold almost no copies (which is what they told the court would happen), but stopped the fines and allowed them to keep selling the one that included I.E. and making the full $10mil per day.

The same will happen with this if forced. Ms will spend a few million spewing F.U.D. telling people how their system protects you from malicious programs, and would you rather destroy your computer or would you prefer this. Considering the current climate regarding terrorism, you can probably guess what would happen.

I really didn't knew that. That is scary stuff. So they basically backported telemetry.
Nothing basic about it, it's exactly what they did.

Yeah, I didn't really expect linux to go this route. I hope at least linux will remain a somewhat viable option.
Canonical learned a hard lesson from it and they have yet to recover from it competely, go look at Distrowatch and see where Ubuntu ranks.
They went from first, to third.
They get half the traffic as Debian, which gets 2/3rds the traffic of Mint.

What gets me is many pushed for Linux to be more Windows like, and many said absolutely not.  Then Microsoft makes a huge blunder removing the start menu, leaving Linux more Windows-like than Windows, and what does Ubuntu and Gnome do? Instead of capitalizing on that they both enter the race for a tablet ui. There's a reason Cinnamon (built on top of Gnome 3) is climbing the charts at an amazing rate.

As for being viable, there has never been a time in history that Linux was more viable than right now. I see Open office on more and more computers these days, where it used to only ever be Office. Cinnamon and KDE have pretty much closed the gap in terms of the desktop environments, and Steam is making great strides on Linux gaming. Driver support direct from companies is getting better as well, in fact the only company really going backwards on Linux support, seems to be Intel.

I get what you are saying. But this doesn't justify anything MS is doing.
MS is in a fight for survival.

What they are doing with Win10 is similar to what they are doing with Office, and what other mobile companies have been doing all along, selling the data. MS has to bide their time until they can find a way to breach the mobile market, which so far has eluded them.

They gave away 5% of the desktop market selling their soul for a 3% share in the dying tablet market, and a dwindling 1% share in the phone market.
Why? Because the pc market is going to die in the next 10 years, everything will be running off your cell phone. Don't call them dead yet though, MS has a massive fund for acquiring companies and an almost equally large one stashed just for emergencies. They are not in the situation Blackberry was. MS can stick around a long time on what money they have and resort to familiar tactics, quietly buying up tech companies already with a foot in the door. Buying Nokia proved fruitless, but what if they bough LG or Samsung's phone division... Sounds insane? There was rumors about LG recently.

At least I have to ACTIVELY go on facebook and other sites (google) to get companies to spy on me. With MS, the only thing I have to do is boot up windows. Now I come to think of it, the fact that MS builds this spying into the OS, data harvesting companies like google and amazon and the lot apparently didn't find it enough to follow people's browser behavior and they now want OS behavior as well. So there must be a market for OS spying. Assuming, of course, that it isn't for the sole purpose of the us government and that the US is basically paying / summoning MS to build in backdoors and spying.
It's not that there's a market for spying at the desktop level, most of that is for MS to use for looking at trends on how you are using it, but that data can be misinterpreted, which was what led to the start menu being killed. MS can't directly monetize that data, but they can use it to focus their efforts, or push ads on you. Which is what they are doing with it.

What they can do at the OS?  You said it yourself, when you go to Facebook, they get what you send them, same as Google and Twitter, but if you control the device it's coming from, you get ALL of the data going to each of them.


It sounds like there is no way back, no real solution. I have thought about building a linux firewall, which serves as a proxy. Literally log every connection coming in and coming out, try to find human readable names for the ips. Do deep packet inspection and find out wtf is going on these days. But that would be really a lot of work.
Even running everything through a proxy or firewall will not fix it, yes, you stop MS, but you still crippled the OS if you don't let the data through.

There is a way back, to an extent.
There are bills coming down to limit spying on you at the ISP/router level, but that will not stop device and OS manufacturers from spying.

From there it gets more difficult.
There is unconfirmed reports that Lenovos now have spyware built into them at the hardware level, so you may want to avoid them, but there are other alternatives. We are now starting to see entire laptops and other systems made entirely of open source parts, often QUITE expensive I think that's being paranoid and/or unrealistic since you never truly know 100%. 

You can however buy from reputable sources (preferably made in a country not know for such shenanigans) and use Linux. Some older Sony laptops were made in Japan with Japanese chips. For phones, look into custom roms built using Cyanogenmod (NOT Cyanogen, similar tech, different purposes), AOKP, or others, these will have as much spying removed as possible. But to remain that way, you really need to leave out the Google Apps and API system. Most mapping systems rely on the Google API, as do a lot of browsers and other functions, but you can have a fully working smart phone without it.

However, the second biggest leak of your data is still going to be social media.

Something else to think about all of this, too, at some point you become a target simply for not showing up anywhere.  There are sites you can go to tell you how unique your browser data is, in many case, the more you try to hide, more unique you become, eve if they do not know who you are, they can track you just as easily. It's like wearing a trench coat to hide your identity, it works fine in winter, but in summer, you stick out like a sore thumb.

Here is one of those sites:
https://panopticlick.eff.org/
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Offline smknjoe

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #480 on: Sat, 23 April 2016, 20:42:40 »
Btw.. is there a REALLY GOOD SOLID WAY to disable all privacy ripping / snooping features completely and for sure?

Or are you basically screwed with Win10?

Get a Mac or install GNU/Linux.

Setting up a Mac at least Apple lead you through the process of what to share and what not to share.

So basically, there is no way to know for sure that MS is not ringing home?

Exactly.

Actually you'd be pretty sure they are sending stuff back.  They read all your Skype messages and follow links you post - they have already admitted to that.

Same goes for Apple and even Ubuntu. The potential is there for any OS and it's been that way for at least the last ~20 years.
SSKs for everyone!

Offline smknjoe

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #481 on: Sat, 23 April 2016, 20:45:40 »
...it's only been the last few years that this concern has become mainstream...
SSKs for everyone!

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #482 on: Sat, 23 April 2016, 22:19:21 »

Why? Because the pc market is going to die in the next 10 years, everything will be running off your cell phone.


Are you saying "die" die - or just fall into a niche market like mechanical keyboards?

Because I see power users and gamers and other aficionados continuing to want/need their multi-hundred-dollar keyboards and graphics cards and monitors, while the peons will carry around little things in their pockets that old men like me can't even see without our reading glasses and can hardly even use with just our stubby fingers.
« Last Edit: Sun, 24 April 2016, 09:14:12 by fohat.digs »
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline Techno Trousers

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #483 on: Sat, 23 April 2016, 22:24:51 »
It'll be a cold day in hell before I use a smartphone or tablet to do serious photo editing.

Offline smknjoe

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #484 on: Sat, 23 April 2016, 22:46:59 »
"They" have already been saying that for almost 10 years about PCs and keyboards. Computers with keyboards aren't going anywhere any time soon. People who are only consumers of tech will stick with their phones and tablets. While those who produce and maintain tech will continue using the most effective input method(s) we have right now.
SSKs for everyone!

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #485 on: Sun, 24 April 2016, 00:38:33 »
"They" have already been saying that for almost 10 years about PCs and keyboards. Computers with keyboards aren't going anywhere any time soon. People who are only consumers of tech will stick with their phones and tablets. While those who produce and maintain tech will continue using the most effective input method(s) we have right now.
Everyone was saying it would be replaced by notebooks, then tablets now phones, that it will be gone. I'm saying it will become a dumb terminal for your phone as they converge, which is already happening. The tower itself will disappear, replaced by the cell phone, it's already possible, it just has yet to catch on. Motorola already did it, MS and Ubuntu has already shown off this technology, and Clambook and Nexdock are working on it.

When this convergence happens, your laptop, desktop and tablet just becomes a dumb interface to enhance your cell phone. This means it will be CHEAP since it has no storage, or memory, and if it breaks, you lost nothing. You can already experience this with your cell phone, just get an HDMI to whatever your phone has (mhl, hdmi, etc), and then a bluetooth mouse and keyboard.

This doesn't mean your workstation or gaming computer will disappear, but the pc tower will go back to being a specialty item like it once was. You will only buy one if you need that extra power, not for browsing the internet.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #486 on: Sun, 24 April 2016, 00:58:52 »
Btw.. is there a REALLY GOOD SOLID WAY to disable all privacy ripping / snooping features completely and for sure?

Or are you basically screwed with Win10?

Get a Mac or install GNU/Linux.

Setting up a Mac at least Apple lead you through the process of what to share and what not to share.

So basically, there is no way to know for sure that MS is not ringing home?

Exactly.

Actually you'd be pretty sure they are sending stuff back.  They read all your Skype messages and follow links you post - they have already admitted to that.

Same goes for Apple and even Ubuntu. The potential is there for any OS and it's been that way for at least the last ~20 years.

Ubuntu does for their search facility.  And provides sponsored adverts as part of the search results.  Or have they stopped that now?

Apple is ever so slightly different, as if you are running an Apple operating system then you should be using Apple hardware.  And chances are you have bought more software from Apple to use on Apple hardware under your Apple operating system.  And probably have an Apple phone and/or tablet too.  Maybe even an Apple tv.  They are all designed to work together and complement each other, and Apple doesn't really need to sell your information to anyone else because they are already the biggest computer company, and if you are already using all Apple hardware/software why would they care about you buying third party software.

But yes, Apple does (probably) store iMessage data and Siri searches.  And obviously anything in iCloud.

Does that bother me (using mostly Apple stuff)?  Not really - I don't use Siri or iCloud, most non-Google searches I do via a terminal (find . -name something.ext), and iMessage - well, whatever message transport system you use the data has to pass through a third party.  I would rather Apple than most of the others.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #487 on: Sun, 24 April 2016, 09:24:58 »

When this convergence happens, your laptop, desktop and tablet just becomes a dumb interface to enhance your cell phone.


It bothers the hell out of me that "the precious" is a fragile $600 wafer in my pocket on a cold rainy night, where it may or may not be able to connect to the "outside world" at all ....
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #488 on: Sun, 24 April 2016, 14:37:01 »

When this convergence happens, your laptop, desktop and tablet just becomes a dumb interface to enhance your cell phone.


It bothers the hell out of me that "the precious" is a fragile $600 wafer in my pocket on a cold rainy night, where it may or may not be able to connect to the "outside world" at all ....
Simple solution... Don't pay $600 for your fragile wafer.
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Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #489 on: Mon, 25 April 2016, 06:29:13 »
So basically... for a driver installation it even rings home? So they made it so ingrained (like IE in win95/98) that you can't really use windows without allowing it to ring home. Interesting that nobody sued MS already like they did with the IE/netscape lawsuit in the 90's (not that that helped in any way).
It rings home for every program install as well, the "smartscreen" they created for IE to make sure websites were safe has been redone to include drivers and programs.

By the way, MS didn't fear the I.E. lawsuit and they won't fear this if it does. By bundling IE with Windows in the EU, MS was making $10mil per day while the fine was $1mil per day. Which is why it took them 6 months to release a patch/version without, by which time they had put out enough F.U.D. to convince people they didn't want Windows without I.E. As a result, they sold almost no copies (which is what they told the court would happen), but stopped the fines and allowed them to keep selling the one that included I.E. and making the full $10mil per day.

Interesting. There is a research paper on this, titled "A Fine is a Price" (Gneezy, Rustichini, 2000) in Journal of Legal Studies, arguing and empirically demonstrating that fines are just a "business risk" and that people often weigh the cost of the fine against the potential benefit that violating a rule costs. This MS stuff is a great example of that.

The same will happen with this if forced. Ms will spend a few million spewing F.U.D. telling people how their system protects you from malicious programs, and would you rather destroy your computer or would you prefer this. Considering the current climate regarding terrorism, you can probably guess what would happen.

Sad story, but true. It's funny how people still really try hard to justify that MS is doing something right or trying really hard to look the other way. I guess it's less painful that way. We have a win10 laptop in the experimental lab here at the faculty for research. It registers a lot of information about participants. It is connected to the internet. I tried to warn them against the potential violation of privacy (according to the American Psychological Association Code of Ethics you have to guard privacy). But they just state things like "we have nothing to hide". That old argument.

I really didn't knew that. That is scary stuff. So they basically backported telemetry.
Nothing basic about it, it's exactly what they did.

Yeah, I didn't really expect linux to go this route. I hope at least linux will remain a somewhat viable option.

Canonical learned a hard lesson from it and they have yet to recover from it competely, go look at Distrowatch and see where Ubuntu ranks.
They went from first, to third.
They get half the traffic as Debian, which gets 2/3rds the traffic of Mint.

What gets me is many pushed for Linux to be more Windows like, and many said absolutely not.  Then Microsoft makes a huge blunder removing the start menu, leaving Linux more Windows-like than Windows, and what does Ubuntu and Gnome do? Instead of capitalizing on that they both enter the race for a tablet ui. There's a reason Cinnamon (built on top of Gnome 3) is climbing the charts at an amazing rate.

As for being viable, there has never been a time in history that Linux was more viable than right now. I see Open office on more and more computers these days, where it used to only ever be Office. Cinnamon and KDE have pretty much closed the gap in terms of the desktop environments, and Steam is making great strides on Linux gaming. Driver support direct from companies is getting better as well, in fact the only company really going backwards on Linux support, seems to be Intel.

It IS a good time for linux I gues. I still hate Open Office to the bone though, but I guess almost anything is better now than MS office itself.

I get what you are saying. But this doesn't justify anything MS is doing.
MS is in a fight for survival.

What they are doing with Win10 is similar to what they are doing with Office, and what other mobile companies have been doing all along, selling the data. MS has to bide their time until they can find a way to breach the mobile market, which so far has eluded them.

They gave away 5% of the desktop market selling their soul for a 3% share in the dying tablet market, and a dwindling 1% share in the phone market.
Why? Because the pc market is going to die in the next 10 years, everything will be running off your cell phone. Don't call them dead yet though, MS has a massive fund for acquiring companies and an almost equally large one stashed just for emergencies. They are not in the situation Blackberry was. MS can stick around a long time on what money they have and resort to familiar tactics, quietly buying up tech companies already with a foot in the door. Buying Nokia proved fruitless, but what if they bough LG or Samsung's phone division... Sounds insane? There was rumors about LG recently.

I see them doing that. Actually, they have tried to win competition like this a few times earlier on. They have temporarily bought (but sold off again) Corel, which held Corel Draw and... Word Perfect.

It sounds like there is no way back, no real solution. I have thought about building a linux firewall, which serves as a proxy. Literally log every connection coming in and coming out, try to find human readable names for the ips. Do deep packet inspection and find out wtf is going on these days. But that would be really a lot of work.
Even running everything through a proxy or firewall will not fix it, yes, you stop MS, but you still crippled the OS if you don't let the data through.

There is a way back, to an extent.
There are bills coming down to limit spying on you at the ISP/router level, but that will not stop device and OS manufacturers from spying.

From there it gets more difficult.
There is unconfirmed reports that Lenovos now have spyware built into them at the hardware level, so you may want to avoid them, but there are other alternatives. We are now starting to see entire laptops and other systems made entirely of open source parts, often QUITE expensive I think that's being paranoid and/or unrealistic since you never truly know 100%. 

You can however buy from reputable sources (preferably made in a country not know for such shenanigans) and use Linux. Some older Sony laptops were made in Japan with Japanese chips. For phones, look into custom roms built using Cyanogenmod (NOT Cyanogen, similar tech, different purposes), AOKP, or others, these will have as much spying removed as possible. But to remain that way, you really need to leave out the Google Apps and API system. Most mapping systems rely on the Google API, as do a lot of browsers and other functions, but you can have a fully working smart phone without it.

However, the second biggest leak of your data is still going to be social media.

Something else to think about all of this, too, at some point you become a target simply for not showing up anywhere.  There are sites you can go to tell you how unique your browser data is, in many case, the more you try to hide, more unique you become, eve if they do not know who you are, they can track you just as easily. It's like wearing a trench coat to hide your identity, it works fine in winter, but in summer, you stick out like a sore thumb.

Here is one of those sites:
https://panopticlick.eff.org/

Thanks, really interesting.
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Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #490 on: Mon, 25 April 2016, 06:31:46 »

Why? Because the pc market is going to die in the next 10 years, everything will be running off your cell phone.


Are you saying "die" die - or just fall into a niche market like mechanical keyboards?

Because I see power users and gamers and other aficionados continuing to want/need their multi-hundred-dollar keyboards and graphics cards and monitors, while the peons will carry around little things in their pockets that old men like me can't even see without our reading glasses and can hardly even use with just our stubby fingers.

Yeah I don't really see the desktop pc falling into a minority. But it may be that I'm just stubborn, old fashioned and can't let go.

The way I see it, is that the fact that pc sales are at the same rate or shrinking simply reflects the lack of innovation or PC manufacturers still trying to shove compromised products down our throats (like PC laptops... wtf is up with that).

But I understand that very light PC users don't need a keyboard to type a letter and that a tablet and a phone is enough for them.
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Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #491 on: Mon, 25 April 2016, 06:33:49 »
"They" have already been saying that for almost 10 years about PCs and keyboards. Computers with keyboards aren't going anywhere any time soon. People who are only consumers of tech will stick with their phones and tablets. While those who produce and maintain tech will continue using the most effective input method(s) we have right now.
Everyone was saying it would be replaced by notebooks, then tablets now phones, that it will be gone. I'm saying it will become a dumb terminal for your phone as they converge, which is already happening. The tower itself will disappear, replaced by the cell phone, it's already possible, it just has yet to catch on. Motorola already did it, MS and Ubuntu has already shown off this technology, and Clambook and Nexdock are working on it.

When this convergence happens, your laptop, desktop and tablet just becomes a dumb interface to enhance your cell phone. This means it will be CHEAP since it has no storage, or memory, and if it breaks, you lost nothing. You can already experience this with your cell phone, just get an HDMI to whatever your phone has (mhl, hdmi, etc), and then a bluetooth mouse and keyboard.

This doesn't mean your workstation or gaming computer will disappear, but the pc tower will go back to being a specialty item like it once was. You will only buy one if you need that extra power, not for browsing the internet.

Good point. Most people around me actually only DO own a laptop now for serious productivity and no longer a proper desktop, myself included. I moved away from a desktop somewhere in around 2006. Apple laptops became so powerful I didn't really saw a purpose of having a separate more powerful desktop. That, plus the fact that I commute.

But more recently, I think that laptops are going backwards and are becoming less powerful compared to desktops and more expensive. For the first time in like 10 years or so, I am seriously considering buying or building a desktop again.
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Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #492 on: Mon, 25 April 2016, 06:36:05 »
Btw.. is there a REALLY GOOD SOLID WAY to disable all privacy ripping / snooping features completely and for sure?

Or are you basically screwed with Win10?

Get a Mac or install GNU/Linux.

Setting up a Mac at least Apple lead you through the process of what to share and what not to share.

So basically, there is no way to know for sure that MS is not ringing home?

Exactly.

Actually you'd be pretty sure they are sending stuff back.  They read all your Skype messages and follow links you post - they have already admitted to that.

Same goes for Apple and even Ubuntu. The potential is there for any OS and it's been that way for at least the last ~20 years.

Ubuntu does for their search facility.  And provides sponsored adverts as part of the search results.  Or have they stopped that now?

Apple is ever so slightly different, as if you are running an Apple operating system then you should be using Apple hardware.  And chances are you have bought more software from Apple to use on Apple hardware under your Apple operating system.  And probably have an Apple phone and/or tablet too.  Maybe even an Apple tv.  They are all designed to work together and complement each other, and Apple doesn't really need to sell your information to anyone else because they are already the biggest computer company, and if you are already using all Apple hardware/software why would they care about you buying third party software.

But yes, Apple does (probably) store iMessage data and Siri searches.  And obviously anything in iCloud.

Does that bother me (using mostly Apple stuff)?  Not really - I don't use Siri or iCloud, most non-Google searches I do via a terminal (find . -name something.ext), and iMessage - well, whatever message transport system you use the data has to pass through a third party.  I would rather Apple than most of the others.

I'm not really afraid of Apple particularly, because their core business is shoving iDevices down our throats, accompanied by the Apple ecosystem. Facebook and Google are all about the data. And MS is basically the b*tch of US government and they don't really have one particularly well defined core business in terms of a clear long term strategy (yes, I know, they have Office and Windows). They do so many things poorly, it is very diluted if you ask me.

Though, it would be a REALLY clever scam if Apple markets that they are not harvesting your personal data so that people trust Apple blindly and in the end it turns out Apple is the worst of them all.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #493 on: Mon, 25 April 2016, 07:42:12 »

It IS a good time for linux I gues. I still hate Open Office to the bone though, but I guess almost anything is better now than MS office itself.


Huh, I did not realize that Open Office still existed until I Googled it.

I have been running both Office 2010 and Libre Office ("in parallel") on my Windows boxes for half a decade, with Libre Office now getting over 90% of the action and only opening Office 2010 when it is absolutely necessary. I know that it is all about what you get used to, but I find Libre Office more straightforward and easier to navigate. MS Office put me off when they started employing "the ribbon" and it has never gotten easier because many of my most-often-used procedures are buried deep. Plus the fact that Libre Office is free and always updated to the latest version. I will be done with MS Office when the "subscription-only"  < feature >  kicks in.

Similarly, I have ditched Photoshop Elements in favor of Gimp, with somewhat less joy and success, because Gimp is significantly more complex than Elements (which is about all I really need) but probably less satisfying for full-blown Photoshop professionals. And its refusal to use common file types such as .JPG "natively" is a continuing bother. But I am getting ever more comfortable with it, and the "free" part is even more significant there.

PS - Apple is the worst of them all

"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #494 on: Mon, 25 April 2016, 09:16:51 »

It IS a good time for linux I gues. I still hate Open Office to the bone though, but I guess almost anything is better now than MS office itself.


Huh, I did not realize that Open Office still existed until I Googled it.

I have been running both Office 2010 and Libre Office ("in parallel") on my Windows boxes for half a decade, with Libre Office now getting over 90% of the action and only opening Office 2010 when it is absolutely necessary. I know that it is all about what you get used to, but I find Libre Office more straightforward and easier to navigate. MS Office put me off when they started employing "the ribbon" and it has never gotten easier because many of my most-often-used procedures are buried deep. Plus the fact that Libre Office is free and always updated to the latest version. I will be done with MS Office when the "subscription-only"  < feature >  kicks in.

I have tried to switch to Open / Libre Office many times before. But it never worked properly with documents I had to exchange with colleagues (primarily tables being messed up).

Similarly, I have ditched Photoshop Elements in favor of Gimp, with somewhat less joy and success, because Gimp is significantly more complex than Elements (which is about all I really need) but probably less satisfying for full-blown Photoshop professionals. And its refusal to use common file types such as .JPG "natively" is a continuing bother. But I am getting ever more comfortable with it, and the "free" part is even more significant there.

PS - Apple is the worst of them all

I use Lightroom and I honestly cannot see a realistic alternative for that (that is open source I mean).

Why do you think Apple is worst of them all? Only thing I know is that the "feature" of re-developing iWorks meant a lot of features missing out on initially that I needed, so that drove me away from Pages as well.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #495 on: Mon, 25 April 2016, 09:37:43 »
From the beginning I have objected to the Apple philosophy that your computer is a disposable appliance.
My computer is like my work bench and is subject to continuous tweaking and incremental repairs and upgrades.

Apple "does not play well with others" - my wife worships at the altar of the Apple and her work and files are often incompatible with everyone else.

Apple is quick to abandon and orphan even its own offspring - how arrogant and offensive is that?
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #496 on: Mon, 25 April 2016, 17:35:02 »
Sad story, but true. It's funny how people still really try hard to justify that MS is doing something right or trying really hard to look the other way. I guess it's less painful that way. We have a win10 laptop in the experimental lab here at the faculty for research. It registers a lot of information about participants. It is connected to the internet. I tried to warn them against the potential violation of privacy (according to the American Psychological Association Code of Ethics you have to guard privacy). But they just state things like "we have nothing to hide". That old argument.
The gov is also getting Win10 in a few places.
I've dealt with Hippa laws a bit, you have a contract with MS by having paid them. This leaves your company in the clear in regards to sharing data with MS, however, it means MS needs to also comply with hippa. Which honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if they do since they also work with hospitals.

It IS a good time for linux I gues. I still hate Open Office to the bone though, but I guess almost anything is better now than MS office itself.
Win1.9 seems to do okay with office 2010 32bit.

By the way, while I still believe they killed their deal with Amazon (I don't use Ubuntu), Cannonical announced yesterday that search would have internet search turned off by default in this latest release.


I see them doing that. Actually, they have tried to win competition like this a few times earlier on. They have temporarily bought (but sold off again) Corel, which held Corel Draw and... Word Perfect.
MS invested in them, but it was all non-voting shares, did the same with Apple, neither would not be here without it. Vector Capital eventually bought out most of the shares of Corel.

Thanks, really interesting.
You're welcome.
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Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #497 on: Mon, 25 April 2016, 17:46:31 »
From the beginning I have objected to the Apple philosophy that your computer is a disposable appliance.
My computer is like my work bench and is subject to continuous tweaking and incremental repairs and upgrades.

Apple "does not play well with others" - my wife worships at the altar of the Apple and her work and files are often incompatible with everyone else.

Apple is quick to abandon and orphan even its own offspring - how arrogant and offensive is that?

I completely agre, with one exception: durability. Yes, rev 1 might break and is underpowered with Apple products, but all later Apple hardware still runs well. My current laptop is almost six years old.

Still, I agree. My computer is also my workbench. Only until recently have I found the need to custom mod my pc again.
MJT2 Browns o-rings - HHKB White - ES-87 Smoke White Clears - 87UB 55g

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #498 on: Mon, 25 April 2016, 17:53:20 »
Huh, I did not realize that Open Office still existed until I Googled it.

I have been running both Office 2010 and Libre Office ("in parallel") on my Windows boxes for half a decade, with Libre Office now getting over 90% of the action and only opening Office 2010 when it is absolutely necessary.
Open Office is dead, what remains are (several) forks of it.
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Windows 10 Update thoughts and questions...
« Reply #499 on: Mon, 25 April 2016, 18:22:29 »

I completely agre, with one exception: durability. Yes, rev 1 might break and is underpowered with Apple products, but all later Apple hardware still runs well. My current laptop is almost six years old.

Actually, Apple uses average quality internal components, though they have been getting better.

Yes, what you see is quality, screen, keyboard, etc... but inside was/is a different story. Systems have historically used low speed, average memory and drives, sometimes even low end. And while in most cases that was fine, there have been some real piles of garbage come out of there. The G4 laptop was particularly bad, the G5 had mixed results, as were some of the first few generations of Intel powered ones. Even many Iphones are meh in terms of quality internals. The latest ones will do well, but there's nothing inside is why. It's a cell phone sized board, with no user serviceable parts, don't expect these to hold value like previous generations, we are already seeing this trend on the Minis, which started having fewer and fewer serviceable parts.

People have the perception that Apple quality is better than average, just as they do for Cadillac, Jaguar and Mercedes, insurers will tell you a very different story (Apples comes in as average, Cadillac, Jag, and Mercedes well below). What these companies do well though is brand perception (and in Apple's case, customer service).

So why do Apples last? While it's true they get less infections (which can cause wear on the hd), the more important factor is that you tend to treat a $1200 quality feeling laptop a whole lot better than you would a $300 plastic turd. Do you care if your $300 3 year old Dell gets a scratch, no, in fact, you probably WANT it to die so you can replace it.
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