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Author Topic: Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.  (Read 7251 times)

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Offline elbowglue

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Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« on: Tue, 05 January 2010, 23:26:06 »
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110476168504&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_975

Looks like an original HHKB.  If I understand the wikipedia article correctly this looks like a membrane board, somewhat related to feel to the HHKB Lite 2.  This board looks dirty!

Was gonna put in a bid but I realized it wasn't the capacitative switch everyone likes.
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My keyboards: Filco Cherry Blue Tenkeyless(daily home), Compaq MX11800 (modded to blacks), Compaq "MX 84u",  Wellington\'s Dampened Endurapro, Pinkalicious Filco Blue Cherry, Chicony KB-5191, Chicony KB-5181, Desko MOS 5023 UP "elbowglue" spos (modded to blues), Siig Minitouch (monterey blue), SMK-88 (blue cherries), Ricercar SPOS
Smallest to biggest keyboards in inches (Length X Height) - Length is most important for a midline mouse position
KBC Poker: 11.6 x 3.9 - HHKB: 11.6 x 4.3 - Siig Minitouch (Geekhack Space Saver): 11.6 x 6 - Deck/Tg3 82: 12 x 6 - Noppoo Choc Mini 12.4 x 5.3 - Compaq "MX 84u": 13.1 x 7.5 - Filco Tenkeyless: 14 x 5.3 - Cherry "ricercar spos" G86-62410EUAGSA: 14 x 7.75 - Topre Realforce 86u: 14.4 x 6.65 - Desko "elbowglue spos" MOS 5023 UP: 14.5 x 8.4 - IBM Model M Spacesaver: 15.3 x 7 - G80-1800: 15.9 x 7.1 - Adesso MKB-125B: 16 x 7.3 - Compaq Mx11800, Cherry G80-11900: 16.25 x 7.5 - Filco Standard: 17.3 x 5.4 - Unicomp Endurapro: 17.9 x 7.1 - Adesso MKB-135B: 18.3 x 6.0 - Cherry G80-3000: 18.5 x 7.6 - IBM Model M, Unicomp Customizer: 19.3 x 8.27

Offline Rajagra

  • Posts: 1930
Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 06 January 2010, 04:10:20 »
If the price stays low, it would at least  be a way to find out if you like the layout. (Which seems identical to the Pro, unlike the Lite version.)
But that similarity could lead to an expensive mistake for someone. Let's hope not.
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Offline sandy55

  • Posts: 201
Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 06 January 2010, 06:36:05 »
Quote from: ripster;148343
Yep, membrane.

Somebody is gonna be pissed when they buy this and realize it's not really a HHKB2 as the listing shows.


Original HHKB is PD-KB01, for SUN and PS/2  .
PD-KB02 which has add functionality for Mac connection came 1 year later. this model is usually referred as HHKB2 to differentiate original HHKB.
And then HHKB Lite,  HHKB Lite2 followed.
Original HHKB is not listed in PFU's web site you quoted.  
So far the seller is correct.
If a buyer has no interest in arrow keys on Lite2, he may not be pissed because original and 2nd version are quite different from Lite/Lite2.
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Offline didjamatic

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Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 06 January 2010, 07:56:41 »
I think the seller changed the listing description because it no longer says HHKB2, it says "Original" HHKB
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IBM F :: IBM M :: Northgate :: Cherry G80 :: Realforce :: DAS 4

Offline ch_123

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Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 06 January 2010, 09:49:30 »
The ja.wikipedia.org article for the HHKB (incidentally the best source for all things HHKB related) mentions that a Happy Hacking Keyboard 2 was released a year after the original one. It says that it supports Macintosh... given that it's a PS/2 keyboard, and the HHKB2 was supposedly released in 1997, it must mean that they released ADB versions of the HHKB2 and had a corresponding PS/2 one. I wonder if the PS/2 HHKB2 variant was any different from the original.

The Google Translated version of the Japanese wikipedia page mentions this highly profound statement as one of the design goals -

Quote
Life is just a keyboard input device used basically the same as the sequence of the cat.
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Offline Mental Hobbit

  • Posts: 461
Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 06 January 2010, 09:56:05 »
Quote from: ch_123;148449
Life is just a keyboard input device used basically the same as the sequence of the cat.

The quintessence of eastern Wisdom!
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Typing on blues.

Offline ch_123

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Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 06 January 2010, 10:01:02 »
I guess a pic of the back label would settle this. But nonetheless, he's giving the part number of the keyboard, so we can't really say that he's guilty of false advertising.
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Offline ch_123

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Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 06 January 2010, 10:01:45 »
Quote from: Mental Hobbit;148452
The quintessence of eastern Wisdom!


I wonder if my cat would like my new HHKB in the same way she likes my Thinkpad's keyboard...
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Offline itlnstln

  • Posts: 7048
Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 06 January 2010, 10:23:35 »
You're damn straight keyboard manufacturers have been wrong.  Just look at that box.  "Large 'Reverse L' Enter Key For Fast, Accurate Typing."  That's just horse ****.
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Offline ch_123

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Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 06 January 2010, 10:29:16 »
It's funny how when IBM made good decisions, others copied. When IBM made bad decisions, others also copied.

And there's still manufacturers who make that blasted layout...
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Offline keyb_gr

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Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 06 January 2010, 17:53:48 »
Should they have written "It's cheaper for us to make, since we only need one PCB layout woldwide" instead?

The combination of the L-shaped Enter with the claim of "industry-standard 101-key layout" makes me chuckle though. That sort of marketing is really pushing it.
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Hardware in signatures clutters Google search results. There should be a field in the profile for that (again).

This message was probably typed on a vintage G80-3000 with blues. Double-shots, baby. :D

Offline exia

  • Posts: 109
Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 06 January 2010, 23:54:54 »
Quote from: ripster;148343
Yep, membrane.

Somebody is gonna be pissed when they buy this and realize it's not really a HHKB2 as the listing shows.



PFU discontinued models page.

someone email the seller and tell them to update the ebay page with a warning that it is a membrane board. Do you geekhack duty people!
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Offline sandy55

  • Posts: 201
Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 07 January 2010, 03:52:50 »
The seller didn't mention *Pro* neither *Pro 2*.
I don't see any intention trying to tease people with his advertisement.
See Q&A. he clearly answered the board name and model number.

It should be bidders fault if he/she mistaken the board as capacitive Pro 2 with description/answer seen in the auction page.
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Offline itlnstln

  • Posts: 7048
Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 07 January 2010, 07:48:27 »
Sandy, it's nice to see you around more often these days.  Do you know what happened to Chloe?  We miss her.
 
She probably got tired of our childish banter around here.
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Offline sandy55

  • Posts: 201
Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 07 January 2010, 08:11:11 »
Quote from: itlnstln;148784
Sandy, it's nice to see you around more often these days.  Do you know what happened to Chloe?  We miss her.


She might have been very busy in accomplishing undercover mission #8.
 
Quote
She probably got tired of our childish banter around here.

and my sloooow action making boxes.

I will be busy soon for next two months.
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Offline itlnstln

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Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 07 January 2010, 08:12:55 »
Quote from: sandy55;148791
she might have been very busy in accomplishing undercover mission #8.

lol.
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Offline exia

  • Posts: 109
Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 07 January 2010, 10:19:00 »
Quote from: sandy55;148768
The seller didn't mention *Pro* neither *Pro 2*.
I don't see any intention trying to tease people with his advertisement.
See Q&A. he clearly answered the board name and model number.

It should be bidders fault if he/she mistaken the board as capacitive Pro 2 with description/answer seen in the auction page.


I have to disagree.

This is similar to those who sell were selling the xbox box. I hope someone sabotages his auction before someone gets ripped off.
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Offline itlnstln

  • Posts: 7048
Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 07 January 2010, 10:22:45 »
I'm going to side with Sandy on this one.  I will say that the original listing was pretty vague, but he did post the exact description and model number (particularly this), so there should be no confusion.
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Offline ch_123

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Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 07 January 2010, 10:26:12 »
Quote from: exia;148822
I have to disagree.

This is similar to those who sell were selling the xbox box. I hope someone sabotages his auction before someone gets ripped off.

Either that, or you don't know what you're on about. It's hilarious the amount of people who don't bother to make sure they're getting what they think they're getting, and then shout 'False advertisement!' at all who will listen.
« Last Edit: Thu, 07 January 2010, 10:30:43 by ch_123 »
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Offline Rajagra

  • Posts: 1930
Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 07 January 2010, 20:31:14 »
I don't think there is any deliberate attempt to mislead, but the risk is there. When he says "This is NOT the crappy Happy Hacking Keyboard lite!!!" he implies 2 things:
1) This keyboard is not crappy.
2) There are 2 classes of HHKB: the crappy Lite, and non-crappy quality version.

I can't comment on (1) as I haven't tried one of these. But (2) is clearly false. Best case scenario is that this falls into a 3rd category - membrane switch with better quality than the Lite.

No bidding war on this item yet, so looks like good sense prevails. Currently $26.50 inc US shipping, still a good buy, I'd say.
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Offline exia

  • Posts: 109
Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 07 January 2010, 20:36:41 »
I guess you must have missed the good reviews, here is one
 
Quote
5.0 out of 5 stars Excellent keyboard!!, November 12, 2007
By    A. Thompson (Upstate NY) - See all my reviews
Finally, superbly comfortable keys for fast typing! The Access 600 doesn't have quite as many bells and whistles as the Wave keyboard, which I tried out for a few days and ended up returning (see my review for that product), but it does have the few extra buttons I appreciate (e-mail, calculator, etc.). And of course most important is that the feel of the keys is perfect. Half the price of the Wave and, typing-wise, much, much better!
« Last Edit: Thu, 07 January 2010, 21:29:20 by exia »
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Offline sandy55

  • Posts: 201
Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 07 January 2010, 23:05:37 »
Quote from: Rajagra;149018
I don't think there is any deliberate attempt to mislead, but the risk is there. When he says "This is NOT the crappy Happy Hacking Keyboard lite!!!" he implies 2 things:
1) This keyboard is not crappy.
2) There are 2 classes of HHKB: the crappy Lite, and non-crappy quality version.

I can't comment on (1) as I haven't tried one of these. But (2) is clearly false. Best case scenario is that this falls into a 3rd category - membrane switch with better quality than the Lite.


I do have HHKB, Lite, Lite 2.  I don't have HHKB 2 right now but I actually used it.  I don't have had and used HHKB Pro series but do have few Topre capacitive boards.  
Through my experience, I can say the board is not crappy. But Lite/Lite 2 are both crappy.  AFAIK, 2) is clearly true, not false. We can't say every rubber dome boards are crappy.  Your best case scenario can be seen here.

Reason why I still have such crappy Lite and Lite 2 is that I have been planning to make mini boards with MX or ALPS switches using controllers of these Lites.   HHKB will stay long in my shelf as a rare example of rubber dome boards with better quality.
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Offline ch_123

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Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #22 on: Fri, 08 January 2010, 07:30:27 »
Sandy, what exactly was the Happy Hacking Keyboard 2? Translating the Japanese wiki page gave rather ambiguous information about it being a Mac variant.
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Offline itlnstln

  • Posts: 7048
Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #23 on: Fri, 08 January 2010, 07:49:38 »
Quote from: ch_123;149104
Sandy, what exactly was the Happy Hacking Keyboard 2? Translating the Japanese wiki page gave rather ambiguous information about it being a Mac variant.

He had said somewhere else that the only difference between the "1" and 2 was the added Mac support.  For some reason, the "1" didn't work on Macs.
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Offline ch_123

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Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #24 on: Fri, 08 January 2010, 08:44:28 »
Probably because it doesn't have an ADB connector available... The USB versions didn't come out till later. After all, they were released when USB was only new, and as I understand, there were a lot of problems with it back then.

The cables appear to be removable. I wonder if they sold different variants depending on which cable came in the box, or whether they included them all...
« Last Edit: Fri, 08 January 2010, 08:51:45 by ch_123 »
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Offline sandy55

  • Posts: 201
Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 08 January 2010, 10:31:57 »
Quote from: itlnstln;149116
He had said somewhere else that the only difference between the "1" and 2 was the added Mac support.  For some reason, the "1" didn't work on Macs.


Strictly speaking, not *only* difference  but *main* difference.

Quote from: ch_123;149139

The cables appear to be removable. I wonder if they sold different variants depending on which cable came in the box, or whether they included them all...


The cables are removable. I'm not sure if all cables were in a box or not. But I suppose they sold different variants.
I got my HHKB together with PS/2 and SUN cable and the label of my board says just PD-KB01, neither  /P nor /S is added. this means these suffix could be seen on boxes accordingly to a cable included.

Setting guide of 4 position Mode sw for *HHKB* seen in this page is actually for HHKB2. Original model has 2 position switch which defines function of Delete key.  
Opt and Cmd icon are printed on Alt and Meta keys on HHKB2 for Mac

All in all, second model is supposed to be superior to original model which was sold only for a year. this may be the reason they listed 2nd model as  HHKB in discontinued model page.
I want to examine the box if it says *Happy Hacking Keyboard 2*  or just *Happy Hacking Keyboard*.
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Offline ch_123

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Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #26 on: Fri, 08 January 2010, 12:13:06 »
I had missed the post at the start of this thread where you had already answered that question, sorry about that! Thanks for the info though!
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Offline J888www

  • Posts: 270
Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 17 January 2010, 14:42:46 »
After all the discussions, all in all , is it any good ?

As there's another listing from the same seller.
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Offline ch_123

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Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #28 on: Sun, 17 January 2010, 14:49:57 »
As good as rubber domes can be?
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Offline rdjack21

  • Posts: 896
Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #29 on: Sun, 17 January 2010, 14:53:53 »
If this one stays as low as the last one I may have to pick it up for my collection but I don't think I would use it though.
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Keyboards
Topre Capacitive: Realforce 87U, Realforce 86U, HHKB Pro 2, Topre MD01B0, Topre HE0100, Sun Short Type, OEM NEO CS (x2), NISSHO Electronics KB106DE
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M Space Saver (1291472), Unicomp Customizer x 2
Cherry Brown: Filco FKBN87M/EB, Compaq MX11800
Black Alps: ABS M1
Not so great boards Rare Spring over dome OKI, Sun rack keyboard
Trackballs - Trackman Wheel (3), Trackman marble (2)
Keyboards I still want to get - Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 the White version, Realforce 23U number pad in black and maybe white, μTRON ergo board with Topre switches.
Previously owned - [size=0]SiiG MiniTouch (White Alps), Scorpius M10 (Blue Cherry), IBM Model M13[/size]

Offline D-EJ915

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Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #30 on: Sun, 17 January 2010, 15:39:47 »
For anyone still confused about the terminology for the board...

http://dej915.darktech.org:8080/gallery2/v/kbboxes/
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Offline microsoft windows

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Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #31 on: Sun, 17 January 2010, 15:48:17 »
Now I finally understand what HHKB stands for!
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Offline ch_123

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Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #32 on: Sun, 17 January 2010, 15:57:10 »
The Japanese wiki is right though. Someone should really "port" it to English.
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Offline rdjack21

  • Posts: 896
Original HHKB, Dirty Dirty.
« Reply #33 on: Sun, 17 January 2010, 18:37:33 »
Quote from: ripster;151578
So both the PFU list of historical keyboards AND Wikipedia are wrong.  HHKB2 did exist.  Great.

I'm still calling today's model the HHKB2 instead of HHKB2pro.


No No it is the HHKBPro2 but I do understand where you are coming from.
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Keyboards
Topre Capacitive: Realforce 87U, Realforce 86U, HHKB Pro 2, Topre MD01B0, Topre HE0100, Sun Short Type, OEM NEO CS (x2), NISSHO Electronics KB106DE
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M Space Saver (1291472), Unicomp Customizer x 2
Cherry Brown: Filco FKBN87M/EB, Compaq MX11800
Black Alps: ABS M1
Not so great boards Rare Spring over dome OKI, Sun rack keyboard
Trackballs - Trackman Wheel (3), Trackman marble (2)
Keyboards I still want to get - Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 the White version, Realforce 23U number pad in black and maybe white, μTRON ergo board with Topre switches.
Previously owned - [size=0]SiiG MiniTouch (White Alps), Scorpius M10 (Blue Cherry), IBM Model M13[/size]
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