Trying to find a good TKL alternative to the compact Apple Wireless Keyboard

[bastones]

Hi folks,

I have a TKL Apple wireless keyboard - the scissor switch kind - or rather what Apple likes to call "Butterfly switches," whatever that means. I have to admit I do find I type the quickest on these types of keyboards with the least amount of mistakes so I do like it a lot, but the problem is the up and down arrow keys are an absolute joke - they are half the size of the left and right arrow keys. As a developer I have to use these pathetically small arrows keys a lot and I mis-hit them more often than I can deal with. I'm a touch typist so I'm not prepared to look down at my keyboard each time just to use them!

Here's my dilemma: I know Apple sell an extended keyboard with full-size arrow keys (at an extortionate price might I add), but I can't use them because all full-size keyboards are just far too wide. I have to use an ergonomic mouse and I need to keep it as close to me as possible to keep things comfortable. This is why a TKL layout is the only option for me when it comes to computer use. I don't find 60% boards easy to type on either - so really, I can only consider tenkeyless layouts or smaller, as long as the keys are otherwise full size.

As implied, I use a Mac but I'm pragmatic about the keyboard choice - if the right one for me happens to have a Windows key, so be it. I don't mind.

I have been searching for months for a good alternative and I've hit a serious brick-wall. All the keyboards I have tried - mostly scissor-switch variants - are just horrendous. I'm yet to find a keyboard that doesn't either have a terrible key feel or non-spacious key layouts. I think the reason I can type so fast on the Apple keyboard with such high accuracy is because the keys are flat and allow me to quickly slide between each key.

I'm open to mechanical and non-mechanical keyboard suggestions - any help would be really appreciated!

Thanks.

[jackcauliflower]

Anne Pro is a pretty good option! I use it with both of my Macs, and it’s bluetooth!

You are able to remap the bottom row to your liking (I.e. adding the command keys), the keyboard comes with backlighting, and is mechanical.

It is a 60% Keyboard though, so no arrow keys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

EDIT: Here is an Amazon link, though this keyboard is easily found using Google.
Mechanical Keyboard, ANNE Pro Bluetooth 4.0

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XW5BJLW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_J1dMzb99DTV2M

[apricot]

Varmilo has launched Mac versions of their keyboards, they are sold at least at capsunlocked from UK: http://caps-unlocked.com/search.php?search_query=mac&section=product

I'm not sure if a mechanical keyboard would be the right choice for you though, as the travel distance of Cherry MX switches is significantly greater than that of the Apple scissor switch. For flat keycaps with wide surface area you would have to look at aftermarket keycaps like the G20 from Signature Plastics.

[Findecanor]

The only true "tenkeyless" scissor-switch keyboard I have come across has been one that came with a Samsung all-in-one PC, unfortunately.

There might be some models if you would be comfortable with the "nav cluster" (home/end/page up/page down) be in a vertical column.

You could also look at a stand-alone Thinkpad keyboard.
The cursor keys are smaller than regular keys but IMHO a little bit larger and a bit more comfortable than Apple's.
They keyboards seem to be the same as on the laptops - and you should be able to find the laptops in stores here and there to try them out.

If you are OK with a mechanical TKL but don't want too much key travel, then check out Logitech G Pro. It is a TKL version of the G810 Orion Spectrum. Wired and with RGB backlighting, but made for PC. The full-size or TKL are probable to be available to try out in physical stores.

Edit: I see now that the Varmilo is available with Cherry MX Clear. For the closest feel to the scissor switch, maybe Cherry MX Clear and install O-rings under the keys.
But it is really a switch that you would want to try out for a couple of weeks before you decide...

what Apple likes to call "Butterfly switches," whatever that means.

Those are only on MacBook laptops. Extremely low key travel to make the laptops as thin as possible...
Apparently, Apple gave it the "butterfly" moniker because of how the scissor mechanism looks from the side in close-up.

[bastones]

Thanks for everyone's helpful suggestions.

Varmilo has launched Mac versions of their keyboards, they are sold at least at capsunlocked from UK: http://caps-unlocked.com/search.php?search_query=mac&section=product

I'm not sure if a mechanical keyboard would be the right choice for you though, as the travel distance of Cherry MX switches is significantly greater than that of the Apple scissor switch. For flat keycaps with wide surface area you would have to look at aftermarket keycaps like the G20 from Signature Plastics.

What's the difference between the VA87Mac and VA88Mac models? What key is missing?

[dante]

87 = ANSI
88 = ISO

MechanicalKeyboards.com also has some Varmilo Mac boards incoming:
https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/incoming.php

If you don't mind clicky keyboards and PC layout I *HIGHLY* recommend this:
https://www.amazon.com/Mechanical-Keyboard-Extra-Thin-Switches-Rollover/dp/B0722GG88M

[Jon in PDX]

The Lenovo Thinkpad Compact keyboard line is pretty good, on par with the older, AA-powered Apple keyboards. I haven't tried the newer ones ... have a MacBook with the new-style keyboard and that's turned me off from their new boards completely. The Thinkpad only has 3/4-size arrow keys, though.

Still, I have to ask: if you're otherwise happy with the keyboard you have, does ctrl-N/ctrl-P work for you? Those shortcuts work throughout most of the Mac ecosystem and I often prefer them to arrow keys (but then I have caps lock tied to ctrl). One thing I enjoy about MacOS is that many GNU ctrl-based shortcuts are built-in, including c-N (next line), c-P (previous line), c-A (beginning of line), c-E (end of line), c-F (forward one character), c-B (back one character) and c-K (kill line, although it doesn't yank it to the clipboard).

[WhyYouLikeDis]

Here's a "wild" idea, any good TKL, from KUL to Ducky with any switch you like then slap a DSA set on it, or some flat top profile caps that I'm unaware of.

That said, I highly recommend V80. Or literally any Ducky TKL boards.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk

[daerid]

Just a point of  clarification here: The only keyboards Apple makes with the butterfly mechanism are the ones on the MacBooks and MacBook Pros. The bluetooth Magic Keyboards (the ones that ship with the iMac) are still scissor switches, just much lower profile than they previously were.

[bastones]

Thanks for everyone's brilliant suggestions. I have ordered a Vamilo VA88Mac keyboard from CapsUnlocked.

The Lenovo Thinkpad Compact keyboard line is pretty good, on par with the older, AA-powered Apple keyboards. I haven't tried the newer ones ... have a MacBook with the new-style keyboard and that's turned me off from their new boards completely. The Thinkpad only has 3/4-size arrow keys, though.

Still, I have to ask: if you're otherwise happy with the keyboard you have, does ctrl-N/ctrl-P work for you? Those shortcuts work throughout most of the Mac ecosystem and I often prefer them to arrow keys (but then I have caps lock tied to ctrl). One thing I enjoy about MacOS is that many GNU ctrl-based shortcuts are built-in, including c-N (next line), c-P (previous line), c-A (beginning of line), c-E (end of line), c-F (forward one character), c-B (back one character) and c-K (kill line, although it doesn't yank it to the clipboard).

Oh, didn't know about Ctrl-N and Ctrl-P - thanks for that! I've used the ThinkPad Compact Keyboard before and it's not too bad but as you've rightly pointed out, the arrow keys are just too small.

Just a point of  clarification here: The only keyboards Apple makes with the butterfly mechanism are the ones on the MacBooks and MacBook Pros. The bluetooth Magic Keyboards (the ones that ship with the iMac) are still scissor switches, just much lower profile than they previously were.

I don't know what they've done with the switches in the wireless keyboards but they feel a lot clicker than before, hence the assumption they use the 'Butterfly' switches found in the newer MacBooks. My iMac was recently replaced due to a fault and I have noticed they've updated the switches again and they feel even clicker than the first-generation Magic Keyboard from 2015/2016.

[daerid]

Yeah I think they changed up the stiffness of the little domes they put under the scissors. I have both the small and the full-size magic keyboard (from just a couple months ago) and they're super clicky compared to the previous versions.

[sridhar]

Thanks for everyone's brilliant suggestions. I have ordered a Vamilo VA88Mac keyboard from CapsUnlocked.
...

Hey.

How are you finding this keyboard? Are you still using it? Happy with it?