Author Topic: Purchased the Leopold numpad but keys register as "regular" row 5 numbers (Read 29888 times)

Acknown3 · « **on:** Sun, 22 December 2013, 18:35:21 »

Hey guys. I got the tenkeypad from this page so that I could use it for trainers and games which require input from numpad numbers, not the numbers in row 5 of the keyboard. Unfortunately, the pad registers as the row 5 numbers, which completely defeats the purpose of owning it. Is there a program that I could use to remap the keys to the numpad numbers without also changing the ones on the row 5 of my keyboard to the numpad numbers as well? Sorry if I can't explain the problem clearly, I'm a bit frustrated.

Mr. C · « **Reply #1 on:** Mon, 23 December 2013, 22:58:28 »

Sorry to hear the problem with Leo tenkey as I just bought one. Thanks for pointing issue out.

metalliqaz · « **Reply #2 on:** Mon, 23 December 2013, 23:07:14 »

This is a known issue. Believe it or not it's actually done for a reason. The idea is that the state of the NumLock on the normal keyboard doesn't effect the Numpad. Instead of sending number pad keys, the pad sends number row (not affected by NumLock), and when its own NumLock button is pressed, it sends the PgUp, Home, etc. keys.

Nixietube · « **Reply #3 on:** Tue, 24 December 2013, 10:48:23 »

hearing that just rendered the leo numpad useless in my eyes. if i have a 60% keyboard and get a seperate numbpad i expect it to send the propper signals and not just some other stuff. they should have at least installed a switch to change that.

jdcarpe · « **Reply #4 on:** Tue, 24 December 2013, 12:19:40 »

Leopold are dumb for doing this. Makes no sense to mess with a known standard.

IvanIvanovich · « **Reply #5 on:** Tue, 24 December 2013, 13:18:29 »

Wow that's so dumb. Many other numpads just do numlock+NP_X+numlock off on each keypress to avoid it screwing around with numlock state with numlock being more like an internal Fn key to switch layers. No idea why they didn't do that as well.
Pretty much any game that expect numpad need to have numpad number scan codes, also same for unicode input as that dosen't work on numrow scan codes either.
I guess if you're only doing number crunching it's still a nice numpad, but they really should have thought it through.

Suichoy · « **Reply #6 on:** Tue, 24 December 2013, 17:48:52 »

I have this numpad as well, was hoping to use it for programs that specifically call for true numpad output. I wish Leopold would put a warning on their site or give out some kind of hotfix.

rowdy · « **Reply #7 on:** Wed, 25 December 2013, 04:14:16 »

So you can't do Alt-0xxx using this external numpad then?

phoenix1234 · « **Reply #8 on:** Wed, 25 December 2013, 04:30:22 »

Quote from: Acknown3 on Sun, 22 December 2013, 18:35:21

Hey guys. I got the tenkeypad from this page so that I could use it for trainers and games which require input from numpad numbers, not the numbers in row 5 of the keyboard. Unfortunately, the pad registers as the row 5 numbers, which completely defeats the purpose of owning it. Is there a program that I could use to remap the keys to the numpad numbers without also changing the ones on the row 5 of my keyboard to the numpad numbers as well? Sorry if I can't explain the problem clearly, I'm a bit frustrated.

The PC will receive numpad5 as VK_NUMPAD5 keycode.
If Leopold implemented it as VK_KEY_5, it is a serious defect.

If you are using Windows 7, you can use On-Screen Keyboard feature with numpad enabled (you need to click to Option to enable Numpad). It will help you to input Numpad 5 without a physical keyboard.

osi · « **Reply #9 on:** Wed, 25 December 2013, 10:31:16 »

I have one of these with blues. I was too dissapointed that it doesn't pass the correct codes however, I don't need them. It did strike me a little odd though. Why leave them out?

atlas3686 · « **Reply #10 on:** Wed, 25 December 2013, 11:53:22 »

This is disappointing, just bought one of these as well

metalliqaz · « **Reply #11 on:** Wed, 25 December 2013, 12:08:45 »

Quote from: rowdy on Wed, 25 December 2013, 04:14:16

So you can't do Alt-0xxx using this external numpad then?

That is correct

atlas3686 · « **Reply #12 on:** Wed, 25 December 2013, 16:49:20 »

Is it possible to remap the 5 to down arrow when the num lock is off, so you have a normal inverted T layout?

peter79 · « **Reply #13 on:** Fri, 27 December 2013, 21:48:08 »

Which one is "regular" row 5 numbers?
My only problem is "." key, it appears "." not "," on Excell

tbc · « **Reply #14 on:** Fri, 27 December 2013, 21:54:40 »

? what?

there are two places where there are numbers on a keyboard. the numpad on the right and the number row (the keys right above 'qwerty')

Findecanor · « **Reply #15 on:** Sat, 28 December 2013, 11:58:19 »

The / * - + and Enter keys are still numpad codes, right?

Nixietube · « **Reply #16 on:** Mon, 13 January 2014, 03:48:34 »

when this was more up to date i wrote elitekeyboards.com and asked them about it. got a reply yesterday:

Quote

Hi (real Name of Nixietube),

Yes, that is correct; the number codes sent are not Numberpad codes, but number row codes.

Best regards,
Brian

eddie · « **Reply #17 on:** Mon, 13 January 2014, 05:12:08 »

Wow, this sucks. I didn't really notice with problem till now. Just received mine a few weeks ago. $:-\$

naasfu · « **Reply #18 on:** Tue, 28 January 2014, 19:51:08 »

I've seen some posts where people got "fixed" Leopold tenkeypads. However, I just got this reply back from EK today, so it would probably be safe to wait a bit before getting a Leopold:

Quote

Yes, they do [still have this issue]. This should be fixed in the next batch in a couple of months.

StylinGreymon · « **Reply #19 on:** Wed, 29 January 2014, 02:49:10 »

Glad I saw this thread before buying one.
Maybe I'll get a Filco one instead.

atlas3686 · « **Reply #20 on:** Wed, 29 January 2014, 04:52:34 »

Quote from: naasfu on Tue, 28 January 2014, 19:51:08

I've seen some posts where people got "fixed" Leopold tenkeypads. However, I just got this reply back from EK today, so it would probably be safe to wait a bit before getting a Leopold:
Quote
Yes, they do [still have this issue]. This should be fixed in the next batch in a couple of months.

The new ones are fixed, mine came from S.Korea and it's is perfect, it's just going to take a little while for the stock to filter through to EK. They are great numpads.

soloz2 · « **Reply #21 on:** Tue, 25 February 2014, 06:10:39 »

Quote from: atlas3686 on Wed, 29 January 2014, 04:52:34

Quote from: naasfu on Tue, 28 January 2014, 19:51:08
I've seen some posts where people got "fixed" Leopold tenkeypads. However, I just got this reply back from EK today, so it would probably be safe to wait a bit before getting a Leopold:
Quote
Yes, they do [still have this issue]. This should be fixed in the next batch in a couple of months.

The new ones are fixed, mine came from S.Korea and it's is perfect, it's just going to take a little while for the stock to filter through to EK. They are great numpads.

Would you mind sharing where you got yours from? I've called EK, but they don't have fixed ones yet. I emailed qtan, but he hasn't gotten back to me yet.

oscillik · « **Reply #22 on:** Tue, 25 February 2014, 06:23:14 »

this is exactly why I want a Realforce 23UB. It has a DIP switch so that you can have it act like a true NumPad. Also, it's thorprer.

My Goldtouch NumPad suffers from this exact same problem - doesn't send proper scancodes. It's incredibly frustrating.

daerid · « **Reply #23 on:** Tue, 25 February 2014, 09:08:42 »

The Filco has the same problem. I had one for a while and never used it because of it.

soloz2 · « **Reply #24 on:** Tue, 25 February 2014, 09:59:20 »

I just got a Filco and it registered as number pad on my laptop. I'm having difficulty finding keycaps for it due to the 00 though

QuadGMoto · « **Reply #25 on:** Tue, 25 February 2014, 14:05:06 »

Oh, that's just peachy.

The one I ordered is due to arrive tomorrow. Sadly I do need it to actually send keypad codes for use with the music notation software I use.

Does anyone know if this is a firmware issue that can be fixed via an update?

IPT · « **Reply #26 on:** Tue, 25 February 2014, 14:11:55 »

Quote from: daerid on Tue, 25 February 2014, 09:08:42

The Filco has the same problem. I had one for a while and never used it because of it.

the filco shouldn't, it should register as a normal numberpad.
if you use aqua keytest you'll see its actually pressing numberpad then the button on each keypress
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=21101.0

QuadGMoto · « **Reply #27 on:** Thu, 27 February 2014, 16:41:53 »

The Leopold I ordered arrived yesterday. It really does have the problem described by the OP.

An email sent to Elite Keyboards' support confirmed that there is no firmware update. But then, neither could I find any other numeric keypads that use Cherry blue switches. Heck, I found some other very strange limitations in separate numeric keypads along the way. (No equals key?!? What's up with that?!?

) So I had to find a way to make it work.

Long story, short; I'm on a Mac. Elite Keyboards has a utility listed on their site called KeyRemap4MacBook, and its interface is even more awkward than its name. But if you take the time to manually build the necessary xml file, it can remap the keys at a low enough level that no application even realizes the keys have been remapped.

So if you need it, here's the xml file needed to remap those keys using this utility:

Code: [Select]

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<root>

  <devicevendordef>
    <vendorname>Leopold</vendorname>
    <vendorid>0x04d9</vendorid>
  </devicevendordef>

  <deviceproductdef>
    <productname>FC210TP</productname>
    <productid>0x0176</productid>
  </deviceproductdef>

<item>
    <name>Convert Leopold Numbers to Keypad Numbers</name>
    <identifier>private.leopold_to_keypad</identifier>
    <device_only>DeviceVendor::Leopold, DeviceProduct::FC210TP</device_only>
    <autogen>__KeyToKey__ KeyCode::KEY_0, KeyCode::KEYPAD_0</autogen>
    <autogen>__KeyToKey__ KeyCode::KEY_1, KeyCode::KEYPAD_1</autogen>
    <autogen>__KeyToKey__ KeyCode::KEY_2, KeyCode::KEYPAD_2</autogen>
    <autogen>__KeyToKey__ KeyCode::KEY_3, KeyCode::KEYPAD_3</autogen>
    <autogen>__KeyToKey__ KeyCode::KEY_4, KeyCode::KEYPAD_4</autogen>
    <autogen>__KeyToKey__ KeyCode::KEY_5, KeyCode::KEYPAD_5</autogen>
    <autogen>__KeyToKey__ KeyCode::KEY_6, KeyCode::KEYPAD_6</autogen>
    <autogen>__KeyToKey__ KeyCode::KEY_7, KeyCode::KEYPAD_7</autogen>
    <autogen>__KeyToKey__ KeyCode::KEY_8, KeyCode::KEYPAD_8</autogen>
    <autogen>__KeyToKey__ KeyCode::KEY_9, KeyCode::KEYPAD_9</autogen>
    <autogen>__KeyToKey__ KeyCode::EQUAL, KeyCode::KEYPAD_EQUAL</autogen>
    <autogen>__KeyToKey__ KeyCode::DOT, KeyCode::KEYPAD_DOT</autogen>
  </item>

</root>

For you Windows and Linux/Unix guys, sorry, I don't know of a similar utility for you. Maybe someone else here knows of something.

Quote

The Filco has the same problem. I had one for a while and never used it because of it.

Along the way of working this out, I discovered that the vendor code sent by the Leopold is Filco's vendor code. No wonder the two keypads have the same problem.

daerid · « **Reply #28 on:** Thu, 27 February 2014, 23:21:02 »

Quote from: projectD on Tue, 25 February 2014, 14:11:55

Quote from: daerid on Tue, 25 February 2014, 09:08:42
The Filco has the same problem. I had one for a while and never used it because of it.

the filco shouldn't, it should register as a normal numberpad.
if you use aqua keytest you'll see its actually pressing numberpad then the button on each keypress
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=21101.0

The one I had most definitely sent the top row number codes. I purchased it specifically so I could use Pro Tools shortcuts with my tenkeyless keyboard (at the time), and none of them worked. Aqua Key Test also confirmed that the numpad was sending the wrong codes.

Maybe it was just my unit, but I doubt it. Others were experiencing the same issue at the time.

Surnia · « **Reply #29 on:** Sat, 01 March 2014, 02:31:30 »

ouch, thank god I saw this. Was going to pickup another keypad for work, and thought the leo would be a great unit (better QC, etc). I'll have to wait on the new stock then; we use software that only registers certain commands on the numpad codes.

In other news, my Keycool 22 outputs the proper scancodes, works like a charm minus the fact that the feet slide like skates on ice..

daerid · « **Reply #30 on:** Sat, 01 March 2014, 11:37:55 »

I just don't understand why the Leopold is the only numpad with a proper size 0 key

QuadGMoto · « **Reply #31 on:** Sat, 01 March 2014, 11:42:59 »

Quote from: daerid on Sat, 01 March 2014, 11:37:55

I just don't understand why the Leopold is the only numpad with a proper size 0 key

I don't understand why so many numpads don't have an equals key.

dustinhxc · « **Reply #32 on:** Sat, 01 March 2014, 11:47:28 »

Leopold TKP is worth it just for the clean body/ case.

daerid · « **Reply #33 on:** Sat, 01 March 2014, 11:48:40 »

Quote from: QuadGMoto on Sat, 01 March 2014, 11:42:59

Quote from: daerid on Sat, 01 March 2014, 11:37:55
I just don't understand why the Leopold is the only numpad with a proper size 0 key

I don't understand why so many numpads don't have an equals key.

Probably because the standard 10 key on full keyboards doesn't. Whether or not it should is an entirely different matter.

QuadGMoto · « **Reply #34 on:** Sat, 01 March 2014, 12:01:41 »

Quote from: daerid on Sat, 01 March 2014, 11:48:40

Whether or not it should is an entirely different matter.

There is a separate keycode for them. And Apple's keyboards have had one for decades. That means they should have one.

There are times when it really comes in handy. Oddly enough, that's not while using a calculator, since I prefer RPN.

The combination of a full sized zero key, an equals key, and Cherry blues is why I bought the Leopold. Being about to work around the number codes problem is why I kept it.

daerid · « **Reply #35 on:** Sat, 01 March 2014, 12:49:44 »

Quote from: QuadGMoto on Sat, 01 March 2014, 12:01:41

Quote from: daerid on Sat, 01 March 2014, 11:48:40
Whether or not it should is an entirely different matter.

There is a separate keycode for them. And Apple's keyboards have had one for decades. That means they should have one.

There are times when it really comes in handy. Oddly enough, that's not while using a calculator, since I prefer RPN.

The combination of a full sized zero key, an equals key, and Cherry blues is why I bought the Leopold. Being about to work around the number codes problem is why I kept it.

Please share when you get it working, if it's relatively painless (although I am a software dev, so my "pain" threshold is fairly high), then I'll just pick one of these up.

QuadGMoto · « **Reply #36 on:** Sat, 01 March 2014, 12:55:27 »

Quote from: daerid on Sat, 01 March 2014, 12:49:44

Please share when you get it working, if it's relatively painless (although I am a software dev, so my "pain" threshold is fairly high), then I'll just pick one of these up.

It's working now under Mac OS X. (See here: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52632.msg1241098#msg1241098)

I'm thinking about playing around with remapping on a Windows machine, but I don't have time to do it this weekend.

osi · « **Reply #37 on:** Sat, 01 March 2014, 13:08:33 »

I still like my leo pad despite its small downfall. Using alt codes are not a necessity for me. There is always charmap or oak if I need.

My fingers are starting to get bored with the blues though.

daerid · « **Reply #38 on:** Sat, 01 March 2014, 14:27:40 »

Ahhh yes. That's much easier to do on a Mac than on Windows. Discerning between devices on Windows requires a low level driver. And writing drivers for Windows is not fun.

IPT · « **Reply #39 on:** Sat, 01 March 2014, 21:42:27 »

dunno if you guys seen my post here:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55340.msg1242467#msg1242467

atlas3686 · « **Reply #40 on:** Mon, 03 March 2014, 07:07:57 »

Quote from: QuadGMoto on Thu, 27 February 2014, 16:41:53

The Leopold I ordered arrived yesterday. It really does have the problem described by the OP.

An email sent to Elite Keyboards' support confirmed that there is no firmware update. But then, neither could I find any other numeric keypads that use Cherry blue switches. Heck, I found some other very strange limitations in separate numeric keypads along the way. (No equals key?!? What's up with that?!? ) So I had to find a way to make it work.

Long story, short; I'm on a Mac. Elite Keyboards has a utility listed on their site called KeyRemap4MacBook, and its interface is even more awkward than its name. But if you take the time to manually build the necessary xml file, it can remap the keys at a low enough level that no application even realizes the keys have been remapped.

So if you need it, here's the xml file needed to remap those keys using this utility:

Code: [Select]
<?xml version="1.0"?> <root> <devicevendordef> <vendorname>Leopold</vendorname> <vendorid>0x04d9</vendorid> </devicevendordef> <deviceproductdef> <productname>FC210TP</productname> <productid>0x0176</productid> </deviceproductdef> <item> <name>Convert Leopold Numbers to Keypad Numbers</name> <identifier>private.leopold_to_keypad</identifier> <device_only>DeviceVendor::Leopold, DeviceProduct::FC210TP</device_only> <autogen>__KeyToKey__ KeyCode::KEY_0, KeyCode::KEYPAD_0</autogen> <autogen>__KeyToKey__ KeyCode::KEY_1, KeyCode::KEYPAD_1</autogen> <autogen>__KeyToKey__ KeyCode::KEY_2, KeyCode::KEYPAD_2</autogen> <autogen>__KeyToKey__ KeyCode::KEY_3, KeyCode::KEYPAD_3</autogen> <autogen>__KeyToKey__ KeyCode::KEY_4, KeyCode::KEYPAD_4</autogen> <autogen>__KeyToKey__ KeyCode::KEY_5, KeyCode::KEYPAD_5</autogen> <autogen>__KeyToKey__ KeyCode::KEY_6, KeyCode::KEYPAD_6</autogen> <autogen>__KeyToKey__ KeyCode::KEY_7, KeyCode::KEYPAD_7</autogen> <autogen>__KeyToKey__ KeyCode::KEY_8, KeyCode::KEYPAD_8</autogen> <autogen>__KeyToKey__ KeyCode::KEY_9, KeyCode::KEYPAD_9</autogen> <autogen>__KeyToKey__ KeyCode::EQUAL, KeyCode::KEYPAD_EQUAL</autogen> <autogen>__KeyToKey__ KeyCode::DOT, KeyCode::KEYPAD_DOT</autogen> </item> </root>
For you Windows and Linux/Unix guys, sorry, I don't know of a similar utility for you. Maybe someone else here knows of something.

Quote
The Filco has the same problem. I had one for a while and never used it because of it.

Along the way of working this out, I discovered that the vendor code sent by the Leopold is Filco's vendor code. No wonder the two keypads have the same problem.

Nicely done seriously! I don't think it's possible to do on windows though at least not without fancy drivers.

QuadGMoto · « **Reply #41 on:** Mon, 03 March 2014, 10:04:25 »

Quote from: atlas3686 on Mon, 03 March 2014, 07:07:57

Nicely done seriously! I don't think it's possible to do on windows though at least not without fancy drivers.

Here's what I've found so far.

There is a registry structure that can be used to remap keys at a low level. There are even several different applications that help you set up this remapping. There's just one problem with it. It does not allow for device specific remapping. (Really, Microsoft?!? You couldn't imagine that someone might need to connect more than one keyboard, and might need to remap keys just for one of them? Like on a number pad attached to a notebook computer?)

So I started looking at what goes on at the driver level. I was not able to find any remapping utilities that replace Windows' default keyboard driver.

I also discovered that Windows allows stacking drivers on top of the keyboard driver. These are called "filter drivers". So it should be possible to create something like that to do device specific key remapping. Searching did turn up a few prebuilt filter drivers, mostly for swapping out the caps lock key. So far I haven't found any utility that gives you a configurable filter driver. Though I found mention on another forum of a filter driver that could provide the basis of such a utility.

And that's where it stands. I won't really have time to do much more on this, but hey, this is geekhack. Surely there's someone here who already knows how to put together such a filter driver in a couple of hours!

daerid · « **Reply #42 on:** Mon, 03 March 2014, 12:27:19 »

a couple hours? eeek

(meaning... highly doubtful)

QuadGMoto · « **Reply #43 on:** Mon, 03 March 2014, 12:37:07 »

Quote from: daerid on Mon, 03 March 2014, 12:27:19

a couple hours? eeek

(meaning... highly doubtful)

If someone already knows how to do it, that would be because they've done it before. And that would mean they almost certainly have a framework already. The rest—read the codes, check the table, return the result—is the easy stuff.

soloz2 · « **Reply #44 on:** Tue, 04 March 2014, 12:52:09 »

I just ordered one from qtan so hoping it's fixed. Will report back

nobee · « **Reply #45 on:** Sun, 16 March 2014, 16:54:13 »

Quote from: soloz2 on Tue, 04 March 2014, 12:52:09

I just ordered one from qtan so hoping it's fixed. Will report back

soloz, have you received the Leo from qtan yet? I'm thinking of ordering the black with mx red from him, but I also want to make sure his current batch is outputting the correct codes. I already emailed him, so awaiting an answer but I'm curious if you've received yours yet.

Novus · « **Reply #46 on:** Sun, 16 March 2014, 17:16:09 »

Quote from: soloz2 on Tue, 04 March 2014, 12:52:09

I just ordered one from qtan so hoping it's fixed. Will report back

Quote from: nobee on Sun, 16 March 2014, 16:54:13

Quote from: soloz2 on Tue, 04 March 2014, 12:52:09
I just ordered one from qtan so hoping it's fixed. Will report back

soloz, have you received the Leo from qtan yet? I'm thinking of ordering the black with mx red from him, but I also want to make sure his current batch is outputting the correct codes. I already emailed him, so awaiting an answer but I'm curious if you've received yours yet.

Let me know what he says. I'm also keen on getting on a MX red leopold tenkeypad.

soloz2 · « **Reply #47 on:** Sun, 16 March 2014, 20:29:26 »

No, I haven't received it yet. I ordered white with blue switches.

medvednic · « **Reply #48 on:** Wed, 19 March 2014, 16:35:53 »

Does the Keycool Numpad sends the correct numpad code?

nobee · « **Reply #49 on:** Mon, 14 April 2014, 16:46:15 »

I already posted on the vendor forum, but I'll repost here because I said I would provide an update. Gonna be contacting qtan for a return. I ordered the black MX Red.

Looks like the one I got from qtan is unfortunately printing off the wrong codes even though he said that they should be printing off the correct codes.

I'm going to have to email him for a return now. Unfortunately, I need the correct codes to work with software I use at work. A little disappointing because I did specifically asked him about this before ordering.

Here are all the keys registering from the Leopold 210TP on Aqua's Key Test.

News:

Author Topic: Purchased the Leopold numpad but keys register as "regular" row 5 numbers (Read 29888 times)