Does ThIs MEan Boost isn't a Mod, Now?
Does ThIs MEan Boost isn't a Mod, Now?
No, it means he doesn't make a profit.
Neither did I with Retro DSA. (Spectacularly not, as it turned out!)
- Ron | samwisekoiShow Image(http://www.samwisekoi.com/pixelart/M.png)
Does ThIs MEan Boost isn't a Mod, Now?
No, it means he doesn't make a profit.
Neither did I with Retro DSA. (Spectacularly not, as it turned out!)
- Ron | samwisekoiShow Image(http://www.samwisekoi.com/pixelart/M.png)
How Does redline Not Count As A Profit Maker?
is He No Longer Part Of That?
And no, selling keyboards and keycaps between hobbyists doesn't count. But because this is a forum full of smart people, we added the IRS test to Rule 1 to push people off of the fence one way or the other. If the IRS *would* rule your activities a business on Schedule C, then it is a business. If the IRS would rule it a hobby, then it is not a business according to that test.
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Does that answer your questions?
1. Who qualifies as a Vendor?
b. Any individual, entity, or representative of an entity that profits from sales, services, or group buying activities.
c. Any individual, entity, or representative of an entity whose intent is either (a) or (b) above.
And no, selling keyboards and keycaps between hobbyists doesn't count. But because this is a forum full of smart people, we added the IRS test to Rule 1 to push people off of the fence one way or the other. If the IRS *would* rule your activities a business on Schedule C, then it is a business. If the IRS would rule it a hobby, then it is not a business according to that test.
...
Does that answer your questions?
no.
The VTOS clearly state.Quote1. Who qualifies as a Vendor?
a. Any individual, entity, or representative of an entity that according to IRS regulations would be classified as a business.
b. Any individual, entity, or representative of an entity that profits from sales, services, or group buying activities.
c. Any individual, entity, or representative of an entity whose intent is either (a) or (b) above.
d. Any individual, entity, or representative of an entity who, in the assessment of the Administrators of this forum, should be so classified.
The way I interpret that, if I take this HO CC I paid $30 for, and I list it in the classifieds for $70 and sell it. I have qualified for 1.b and am now a vendor, because I have made a profit from sales, and I don't plan on donating a cent to geekhack.
Also with you saying "selling between hobbyists," what qualifies as hobbyists? Someone who makes more than 5 posts a day? Someone who has more than 3 keyboards? What's the difference between a vendor making a sale, and a hobbyist making a sale?
I feel if you are going to have an exception to the rule, it should be more clearly defined.
Also the way Rule 1 is worded, it seems like if you meet any of the four criteria, you are a vendor, however that would make 1.c pretty much redundant in that case?
Or if some PR person from NewEgg starts posting about how excellent their new keyboard is, that person is a representative of an entity, and should be classified as such.
Excellent. Thank you for answering MY question, even if I did not answer yours.
I've expanded the quote of Rule 1 to show it in its entirety. Let's look at each line...
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So, if you "take this HO CC I paid $30 for, and I list it in the classifieds for $70 and sell it", the IRS isn't going to classify you as a business, and neither does Rule 1.a.
But what about Rule 1.b.? To start, you aren't an "entity" like CM, you're not a representative of an entity like CM-Rajiv, so those don't apply at all. The the question becomes "are you an individual who profits from sales, services, or group buying activities?" Are you? In any given year, do you make more money than you spend on sales, service or group buying activities? I suppose if all you do is that ONE transaction, then you might say you made a profit. But (a) you did way more than that, (b) the money and the number of transactions is trivial even if you change that out to a single $200 keyboard you sold for $400, and (c) you had no other costs WHATSOEVER involved in making the sale?
Rule 1.b. is to prevent people and entities who are actually making money from pretending they are not vendors. It is almost true that you could reduce it to absurdity and make a literal case, but really, why bother?
On the other hand, if someone is actually making a living buying and selling, and then posts what appears to be an innocuous Great Find that points to their eBay site, that person is a vendor, and other people on this forum deserve to know so they can make informed choices. Or if some PR person from NewEgg starts posting about how excellent their new keyboard is, that person is a representative of an entity, and should be classified as such.
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So NOW have I answered your question?
Seriously. I am trying to do just that.
- Ron | samwisekoiShow Image(http://www.samwisekoi.com/pixelart/GH75.png)
1. Who qualifies as a Vendor?
b. Anyindividual,entity, or representative of an entity that profits from sales, services, or group buying activities.
So anyone who sells a CC for the usual ~$50-$150 is a vendor? (rule 1.b)Lulz.
So anyone who sells a CC for the usual ~$50-$150 is a vendor? (rule 1.b)
Ok, we're getting closer to an answer :)
I can completely understand everything except 1.b. Before I explain it, this Is what I think 1.b should look like.Quote1. Who qualifies as a Vendor?
b. Anyindividual,entity, or representative of an entity that profits from sales, services, or group buying activities.
The reason for this, is, I feel like as individuals who offer a service, such as The_Beast, WFD, The_Ed, should not be classified as "Vendors" since they are offering member to member services and not just trying to sell items.
However, leaving the "representative of an entity" I feel would cover everyone else on the forum here as an individual here to make profits, for example (please don't hate me examples, I <3 u guys) i3oilermaker is representing techkeys, notchka is representing keypop, feng/qtan are representing their eBay stores. This would exclude members such as the ones listed above, and other members such as yourself, samwisekoi, who just run the odd GB for geekhack members, not to represent their own storefront, while still including people who are obviously vendors and representatives of their stores.
Another thing that slightly bothers me is 2.b, it seems as if you guys could target someone who is in violation of 1.b as an individual running a keycap set GB, and require them to donate or face these strict Vendor terms. Obviously that's an exaggeration of what could happen, but it seems as if it could be used if the "Individual" part is left in 1.b.
Obviously these are just some examples, I could probably come up with more. I'd just like to see some clarification of 1.b and I think my proposed solution of removing the "Individual" part would definitely help me feel better, and hopefully other members of the community, feel better about these new VTOS.
If you have any clarifications, I have a tough time explaining things in my head to words, so feel free to ask me to clarify anything.
1.b " b. Any individual, entity, or representative of an entity that profits from sales, services, or group buying activities."
If a GB organizer gets a free X (often times GB organizers get a free set of caps) doesn't this constitute a profit?
People were calling you out for two reasons,
1) you belong to Redline, which was kicked from OTD/KBDMania for profiting on the AIKON
2) despite not making money, you are part of their represented interests.
It's not SF. :P
Boost is listed on Team Redline's website as the American contact/distributor or at least he was.
I think it is now :P lolz
I just ran a gb for the lzgh and I helped with the shipping of the gundam in the USA. Thats all I did. No profit. kinda in the negative.
I was talking about this image on the RedLine site specifically.Show Image(http://jackass76.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/member.jpg)
I think it is now :P lolz
You sure lolz/lulz a lot don't hurt yourself now
I think it is now :P lolz
You sure lolz/lulz a lot don't hurt yourself now
It's how I relieve stress
lolz :P
What if you are classified as a business by the IRS, but not for your keyboard hobby activities?
I'm not saying I fall into this category currently, but I formerly had tried to start a small business (DBA), but even if I were currently making an income from that enterprise, it would have zero to do with whether I sell a few keyboards that I assembled.
I think this is obvious, but it might be one of those case-by-case judgement calls, yes?
I was talking about this image on the RedLine site specifically.Show Image(http://jackass76.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/member.jpg)
What if you are classified as a business by the IRS, but not for your keyboard hobby activities?
I'm not saying I fall into this category currently, but I formerly had tried to start a small business (DBA), but even if I were currently making an income from that enterprise, it would have zero to do with whether I sell a few keyboards that I assembled.
I think this is obvious, but it might be one of those case-by-case judgement calls, yes?
1.b " b. Any individual, entity, or representative of an entity that profits from sales, services, or group buying activities."
If a GB organizer gets a free X (often times GB organizers get a free set of caps) doesn't this constitute a profit?
Only if as a whole, a net profit was made on the entire buy.
Anyone have/know/is a lawyer? I am suggesting maybe to have one look at this and make suggestions.
As an attorney, can I just say this thread is very entertaining.
how do I apply?
how do I apply?
PM the mods I guess.
how do I apply?
PM the mods I guess.
I already did once and got no response so I thought I would post here.
I intend to make money.
I intend to make money.
I appreciate the honesty and straight-forwardness
I intend to make a profit after paying for all the costs of my equipment, supplies and R&D costs
that is what I should have said.
d. Conduct all transactions ethically, with courtesy, and with proper communication.
Quoted. Conduct all transactions ethically, with courtesy, and with proper communication.
For those granted vendor status and given a subforum here how will the above statement be enforced when a vendor chooses to not participate here anymore, completely ignore communications and clearly not be delivering promised goods.
Quoted. Conduct all transactions ethically, with courtesy, and with proper communication.
For those granted vendor status and given a subforum here how will the above statement be enforced when a vendor chooses to not participate here anymore, completely ignore communications and clearly not be delivering promised goods.
I would bet they lose vendor status and that's about it. (I assume you mean fakeline? Or sherry.)
Quoted. Conduct all transactions ethically, with courtesy, and with proper communication.
For those granted vendor status and given a subforum here how will the above statement be enforced when a vendor chooses to not participate here anymore, completely ignore communications and clearly not be delivering promised goods.
I would bet they lose vendor status and that's about it. (I assume you mean fakeline? Or sherry.)
Why not both?
What about people who sell stuff in Classifieds for an obvious profit?
The forum staff takes no stance on profit. It is up to buyers and sellers to do due diligence in determining what fair prices are. If you are uncertain about an item’s worth, please ask in this thread (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=31779.0). Discussion about prices must be respectful and backed by references. Any personal insults or aggression in price arguments may be subject to moderation.