G100s ?

[rurushu]

nope, the middle scroll wheel click will cause double clicks.... i normally see double clicks on the two right or left buttons, but then in my case, all my mice's double clicks are at the middle scrollwheel.... which is irritating and irks me 

The middle scroll wheel button is Kailh.. and we all know kailh is, well.. Kailh... Razor keyboards use them... that says it all...

Still love my deathadder though.

best mouse I have ever used and will buy another if my current one ever dies

Deathadder haz omrons..   at least razor did that right..

Show Image

But they did cheap us out on the side buttons, which are not omrons..

I think only Ducky Secret got all its buttons Omron switches, others mostly cheap out on either the additional weaboo buttons or the middle scrollwheel button...


On a side note, what is you guys' grip style? Mine is palm + claw hybrid, that is also one of the main reason why I can't use those "ergonomic" mice and mice that has ****loads of side buttons

For me it's fingertip / claw hybrid. I've tried palm, but when there is really action going on like in an FPS game, it feels way to relaxed. Actually, true palm grip even gives me some pain in the wrist.

same here, whenever I game, be it FPS or RTS or MOBA, I will claw the mouse and movement involves often lifting off the mouse and put down again, only the wrist part is having contact with the table surface or mousepad.

I tried to palm grip, but then, I cannot make precise movement or adjustment  >:D

[iLLucionist]

nope, the middle scroll wheel click will cause double clicks.... i normally see double clicks on the two right or left buttons, but then in my case, all my mice's double clicks are at the middle scrollwheel.... which is irritating and irks me 

The middle scroll wheel button is Kailh.. and we all know kailh is, well.. Kailh... Razor keyboards use them... that says it all...

Still love my deathadder though.

best mouse I have ever used and will buy another if my current one ever dies

Deathadder haz omrons..   at least razor did that right..

Show Image

But they did cheap us out on the side buttons, which are not omrons..

I think only Ducky Secret got all its buttons Omron switches, others mostly cheap out on either the additional weaboo buttons or the middle scrollwheel button...


On a side note, what is you guys' grip style? Mine is palm + claw hybrid, that is also one of the main reason why I can't use those "ergonomic" mice and mice that has ****loads of side buttons

For me it's fingertip / claw hybrid. I've tried palm, but when there is really action going on like in an FPS game, it feels way to relaxed. Actually, true palm grip even gives me some pain in the wrist.

same here, whenever I game, be it FPS or RTS or MOBA, I will claw the mouse and movement involves often lifting off the mouse and put down again, only the wrist part is having contact with the table surface or mousepad.

I tried to palm grip, but then, I cannot make precise movement or adjustment  >:D

I can palm for a little. But when things get tense I get nervous in an FPS game and I immediately adjust my grip accordingly. So palm only works for casually walking around in a game.

In illustrator when drawing things, palm also doesn't really work well. Like what you say: I'm not able to make precise movement or adjustment.

[rurushu]

nope, the middle scroll wheel click will cause double clicks.... i normally see double clicks on the two right or left buttons, but then in my case, all my mice's double clicks are at the middle scrollwheel.... which is irritating and irks me 

The middle scroll wheel button is Kailh.. and we all know kailh is, well.. Kailh... Razor keyboards use them... that says it all...

Still love my deathadder though.

best mouse I have ever used and will buy another if my current one ever dies

Deathadder haz omrons..   at least razor did that right..

Show Image

But they did cheap us out on the side buttons, which are not omrons..

I think only Ducky Secret got all its buttons Omron switches, others mostly cheap out on either the additional weaboo buttons or the middle scrollwheel button...


On a side note, what is you guys' grip style? Mine is palm + claw hybrid, that is also one of the main reason why I can't use those "ergonomic" mice and mice that has ****loads of side buttons

For me it's fingertip / claw hybrid. I've tried palm, but when there is really action going on like in an FPS game, it feels way to relaxed. Actually, true palm grip even gives me some pain in the wrist.

same here, whenever I game, be it FPS or RTS or MOBA, I will claw the mouse and movement involves often lifting off the mouse and put down again, only the wrist part is having contact with the table surface or mousepad.

I tried to palm grip, but then, I cannot make precise movement or adjustment  >:D

I can palm for a little. But when things get tense I get nervous in an FPS game and I immediately adjust my grip accordingly. So palm only works for casually walking around in a game.

In illustrator when drawing things, palm also doesn't really work well. Like what you say: I'm not able to make precise movement or adjustment.

I think with this, it is safe to say that we are having same grip type  :D

I can palm also, but only when browsing the internet or doing casual stuff, definitely not when need to get serious and perform precise control, will always revert back to claw  :))

[Leslieann]

Any idea what the Avior 7000 comes with? I'm curious what switch I have under mah hands now..

Omron d2fc-7n

I'm starting to become convinced the quality has slipped on the d2fc-7n.

The last 5 mice I had with them had progressively shorter and shorter lifespans. My latest G700s is going to Logitech for warranty after only 9 months of use and I specifically tried to go easy on it. I used to get double that from them before they started double clicking.


Double clicking is an indication that the leaf spring has weakened, don't let anyone (including Logitech support) tell you it may just need the dust blown out, this is a common problem with these switches, so much so that Gigabyte made a gaming mouse with user replaceable switches (no soldering iron needed). Aggressive clicking or even just a firm press can damage them. The Japanese Omrons use a much better, longer lasting leaf spring compared to the cheaper Chinese models, which are probably only marginally better than some of the alternatives.

[iLLucionist]

Any idea what the Avior 7000 comes with? I'm curious what switch I have under mah hands now..

Omron d2fc-7n

I'm starting to become convinced the quality has slipped on the d2fc-7n.

The last 5 mice I had with them had progressively shorter and shorter lifespans. My latest G700s is going to Logitech for warranty after only 9 months of use and I specifically tried to go easy on it. I used to get double that from them before they started double clicking.


Double clicking is an indication that the leaf spring has weakened, don't let anyone (including Logitech support) tell you it may just need the dust blown out, this is a common problem with these switches, so much so that Gigabyte made a gaming mouse with user replaceable switches (no soldering iron needed). Aggressive clicking or even just a firm press can damage them. The Japanese Omrons use a much better, longer lasting leaf spring compared to the cheaper Chinese models, which are probably only marginally better than some of the alternatives.

I have not yet had this issue with my Avior 7000 (which apparently features the same switch). But I have had it with EVERY logitech mouse I have EVER owned. I don't understand why, but they all eventually start to do this (for me).

[Leslieann]

Any idea what the Avior 7000 comes with? I'm curious what switch I have under mah hands now..

Omron d2fc-7n

I'm starting to become convinced the quality has slipped on the d2fc-7n.

The last 5 mice I had with them had progressively shorter and shorter lifespans. My latest G700s is going to Logitech for warranty after only 9 months of use and I specifically tried to go easy on it. I used to get double that from them before they started double clicking.


Double clicking is an indication that the leaf spring has weakened, don't let anyone (including Logitech support) tell you it may just need the dust blown out, this is a common problem with these switches, so much so that Gigabyte made a gaming mouse with user replaceable switches (no soldering iron needed). Aggressive clicking or even just a firm press can damage them. The Japanese Omrons use a much better, longer lasting leaf spring compared to the cheaper Chinese models, which are probably only marginally better than some of the alternatives.

I have not yet had this issue with my Avior 7000 (which apparently features the same switch). But I have had it with EVERY logitech mouse I have EVER owned. I don't understand why, but they all eventually start to do this (for me).

Details on Omron switches matter a LOT, they make a LOT of switches that are all labeled D2F, look identical and fit our mice.

Most mouse manufacturers use a Chinese switch made with a silver alloy spring, which is inferior to Japanese made with a gold alloy spring. Most good mice are 10mil at most, while low end can be 3mil or less, however, some switches from Omron are rated at 50-100mil.

On D2F switches, the 4th letter indicates country of origin, a Japanese is labeled just D2F, while Chinese variants are labeled D2FC. The next few letters indicate the pcb mounting or a lever, a -01 indicates gold alloy, and a -F at the end indicates a low spring pressure model.

Quick guide...
D2F indicates Japan with silver alloy spring
D2FC  indicates China with silver alloy spring  (what we usually see)
D2F -01 indicates Japan with gold alloy spring
D2FC-01  indicates  Chinese made with a gold alloy spring
D2F-01 -F  indicates Japan with a low spring rate gold alloy spring

https://www.omron.com/ecb/products/pdf/en-d2f.pdf

[tp4tissue]

D2F -01 indicates Japan with gold alloy spring
D2FC-01  indicates  Chinese made with a gold alloy spring

https://www.omron.com/ecb/products/pdf/en-d2f.pdf

Where did you read that 01 means gold alloy..

The specsheet just says the 01 means  30VDC   0.1amp


nm found the spec..

hrrrmmm.. gold alloy...  probably coated only..

[iLLucionist]

Details on Omron switches matter a LOT, they make a LOT of switches that are all labeled D2F, look identical and fit our mice.

Most mouse manufacturers use a Chinese switch made with a silver alloy spring, which is inferior to Japanese made with a gold alloy spring. Most good mice are 10mil at most, while low end can be 3mil or less, however, some switches from Omron are rated at 50-100mil.

On D2F switches, the 4th letter indicates country of origin, a Japanese is labeled just D2F, while Chinese variants are labeled D2FC. The next few letters indicate the pcb mounting or a lever, a -01 indicates gold alloy, and a -F at the end indicates a low spring pressure model.

Quick guide...
D2F indicates Japan with silver alloy spring
D2FC  indicates China with silver alloy spring  (what we usually see)
D2F -01 indicates Japan with gold alloy spring
D2FC-01  indicates  Chinese made with a gold alloy spring
D2F-01 -F  indicates Japan with a low spring rate gold alloy spring

https://www.omron.com/ecb/products/pdf/en-d2f.pdf

Interesting. I feel betrayed now by logitech But I would have to open one of em up to see what kind of D2F is inside. So the best spring is then the D2F-01... Japan + Gold.

[tp4tissue]

Details on Omron switches matter a LOT, they make a LOT of switches that are all labeled D2F, look identical and fit our mice.

Most mouse manufacturers use a Chinese switch made with a silver alloy spring, which is inferior to Japanese made with a gold alloy spring. Most good mice are 10mil at most, while low end can be 3mil or less, however, some switches from Omron are rated at 50-100mil.

On D2F switches, the 4th letter indicates country of origin, a Japanese is labeled just D2F, while Chinese variants are labeled D2FC. The next few letters indicate the pcb mounting or a lever, a -01 indicates gold alloy, and a -F at the end indicates a low spring pressure model.

Quick guide...
D2F indicates Japan with silver alloy spring
D2FC  indicates China with silver alloy spring  (what we usually see)
D2F -01 indicates Japan with gold alloy spring
D2FC-01  indicates  Chinese made with a gold alloy spring
D2F-01 -F  indicates Japan with a low spring rate gold alloy spring

https://www.omron.com/ecb/products/pdf/en-d2f.pdf

Interesting. I feel betrayed now by logitech But I would have to open one of em up to see what kind of D2F is inside. So the best spring is then the D2F-01... Japan + Gold.

Theoretically..

the BEST is D2F - F - 3 - 7

This is just the rumor I've heard..

I have no idea if they're good, and have not seen convincing pictures..

Ebay has them though..  I suspect they're fakes..

[iLLucionist]

Details on Omron switches matter a LOT, they make a LOT of switches that are all labeled D2F, look identical and fit our mice.

Most mouse manufacturers use a Chinese switch made with a silver alloy spring, which is inferior to Japanese made with a gold alloy spring. Most good mice are 10mil at most, while low end can be 3mil or less, however, some switches from Omron are rated at 50-100mil.

On D2F switches, the 4th letter indicates country of origin, a Japanese is labeled just D2F, while Chinese variants are labeled D2FC. The next few letters indicate the pcb mounting or a lever, a -01 indicates gold alloy, and a -F at the end indicates a low spring pressure model.

Quick guide...
D2F indicates Japan with silver alloy spring
D2FC  indicates China with silver alloy spring  (what we usually see)
D2F -01 indicates Japan with gold alloy spring
D2FC-01  indicates  Chinese made with a gold alloy spring
D2F-01 -F  indicates Japan with a low spring rate gold alloy spring

https://www.omron.com/ecb/products/pdf/en-d2f.pdf

Interesting. I feel betrayed now by logitech But I would have to open one of em up to see what kind of D2F is inside. So the best spring is then the D2F-01... Japan + Gold.

Theoretically..

the BEST is D2F - F - 3 - 7

This is just the rumor I've heard..

I have no idea if they're good, and have not seen convincing pictures..

Ebay has them though..  I suspect they're fakes..

Would it be possible to buy them legit? Or is there no way of knowing for sure..

[tp4tissue]

Would it be possible to buy them legit? Or is there no way of knowing for sure..

Well, you wouldn't be able to tell if they were legit..


I DO believe they have been used in some older mice.. If you track those down.. It should be possible to harvest.

[Leslieann]

Interesting. I feel betrayed now by logitech But I would have to open one of em up to see what kind of D2F is inside. So the best spring is then the D2F-01... Japan + Gold.

Depends on what you're after.

MANY, MANY mice makers use the same switch as Logitech because it's rated for 5mil, presses, which in theory is plenty.
The main reason they choose it though, besides being cheap is that most people agree it has the most satisfying click. The 01 has a  softer click, and the -F can feel downright mushy.

If you were mouse shopping and had no idea what switch was inside, a mushy click would not inspire confidence in the mouse.

[Leslieann]

Theoretically..
the BEST is D2F - F - 3 - 7
This is just the rumor I've heard..
I have no idea if they're good, and have not seen convincing pictures..
Ebay has them though..  I suspect they're fakes..

I've heard it before as well.
The F means much lower spring rate, it will feel rather mushy, 75g as opposed to the standard 150g. You might like it, but most people prefer a satisfying click on their mouse.

As per Omron, the 3 indicates it should have a lever, however if you search the part, the ones for sale lack the lever. As for the 7, it doesn't even follow Omrons naming scheme at all as per their documentation, however these have been found in HP mice. I do know Omron makes a ton of switches though, so it's possible, but it's also well known that the Chinese rip them off constantly, even manufacturers have been duped before.

If you want a nice, long lasting switch, similar to what you have, look for a D2F -01 and no other markings.
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/omron-electronics-inc-emc-div/D2F-01/SW501-ND/83260

Funny, you can't find these on auction sites, only reputable dealers and/or a higher price... coincidence?

[iLLucionist]

Seriously, where do you guys read up on the intricate details of omron mouse button switches? Where does all this knowledge come from?

[Leslieann]

Seriously, where do you guys read up on the intricate details of omron mouse button switches? Where does all this knowledge come from?

A lot is in the pdf I linked.

Some is just from being in the industry and/or dealing with China.

And then there is the fact that I destroy an Omron switched regularly in my mice. I should keep an running death tally in my signature, sort of like WW2 fighter planes... In the last 5 years, I've killed seven DF2C's.

[tp4tissue]

Theoretically..
the BEST is D2F - F - 3 - 7
This is just the rumor I've heard..
I have no idea if they're good, and have not seen convincing pictures..
Ebay has them though..  I suspect they're fakes..

I've heard it before as well.
The F means much lower spring rate, it will feel rather mushy, 75g as opposed to the standard 150g. You might like it, but most people prefer a satisfying click on their mouse.

As per Omron, the 3 indicates it should have a lever, however if you search the part, the ones for sale lack the lever. As for the 7, it doesn't even follow Omrons naming scheme at all as per their documentation, however these have been found in HP mice. I do know Omron makes a ton of switches though, so it's possible, but it's also well known that the Chinese rip them off constantly, even manufacturers have been duped before.

If you want a nice, long lasting switch, similar to what you have, look for a D2F -01 and no other markings.
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/omron-electronics-inc-emc-div/D2F-01/SW501-ND/83260

Funny, you can't find these on auction sites, only reputable dealers and/or a higher price... coincidence?

I have D2F-01F in all my mice already..Including this G100s..   the F in D2F-01F means  0.74n..

I'm not sure if that F in the D2F-F-3-7  means the same...



There's this Chinese guy on a chinese forum telling people that the F37 is the Ultimate switch..

But his description is --it supports 1 amp-- and it FEELS better..    And we all know that means jack-diddly..

[tp4tissue]

Got new Slicks for the G100S..

So Smooth...   

Changing that Center Ring into Teflon makes such a huge difference...

[Leslieann]

I did a bunch of digging into Omrons tonight and found a bunch of new info.

Turns out that Japan models are not physically exactly the same size, and may not fit in all mice. Also, some info on lifespans and click life.

I posted it here if anyone is interested.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=81743.0

[NewbieOneKenobi]

I was gonna say teflon, but you already got there on page 2.

How's the sensor, though, especially when you turn off prediction, acceleration (true turning off may require a registry hack, not just control panel) and everything else like that?

I love the way it has no side buttons.

[tp4tissue]

I was gonna say teflon, but you already got there on page 2.

How's the sensor, though, especially when you turn off prediction, acceleration (true turning off may require a registry hack, not just control panel) and everything else like that?

I love the way it has no side buttons.

Well you need to get aftermarket teflon to swap the center ring.

there is no anglesnapping or acceleration on this sensor setup