Gateron switch durability/contacts oxidation

[granitov]

Hi, forum.

I’ve been using my mechanical keyboard (which is CM QFRi) equipped with Gateron Brown switches (the new white bottom SMD-LED compatible ones) for a bit less than a year. Before that I’ve been using that keyboard with its stock Cherry MX Brown switches for about the same amount of time – a year – until they were replaced with Gaterons in my pursuit of a better switch feeling. The new switches felt fine and I’ve had absolutely no problems with them up until recently, when I’ve noticed that some of the buttons have started to miss keypresses randomly. Sometimes they do that when they’re fully pressed, and if I wiggle them hard enough while they’re pressed or rapidly press them several times they seem to start functioning normally (sort of, for some period of time at least). I have O-rings installed on all of the keys, but they’ve never caused anything like that as there’s like at least 0.5 mm post-actuation travel distance.

The first thing I’ve thought about – bad or cracked soldering, so I’ve resoldered the switches that were showing the signs of malfunctioning. That haven’t provided any effect on the issue, unfortunately, so I’ve started searching for the root of the problem elsewhere (still hoping it’s not the keyboard’s MCU). Changing USB ports haven't provided any improvements either (doesn’t look like a USB problem anyway).

I’ve started measuring resistance between the contacts of a pressed switch (I’m using some unnamed ESR-meter board, the multimeter I have doesn’t seem to give consistent results in that resistance range). The 1+ year used Cherry MX Brown switches are showing the resistance in 0.3 to 0.5 Ohm range. The same applies to mint Gaterons (as I ordered a batch of 90 switches, 3 were left unused). The malfunctioning switches have been showing varying resistance, from 6 Ohm to infinity (depending on how I wiggle them or whatever else). So I’ve taken them apart and rubbed the contact parts with a needle and – voila – the resistance is back to normal (0.6 to 0.8 Ohm). The ones that have undergone the procedure haven't been showing any signs of malfunctioning, so far at least.

So here comes the question – does any research data on Cherry MX clones’ durability exist? Don’t the Gateron switches also have gold-plated contacts like the MX do? The post is not to claim anything or to convince anyone, as I could’ve measured wrong or done something else wrong. Besides, it should be also noted that I live in an area with more or less dense car traffic; some of the dust gets in the window. But should I bother with Gaterons and similar clones in the future, as I would like not to perform a full maintenance of my keyboard every year (considering that what I've found is correct)? Does the principle “Get the German genuine instead of a Chinese knock-off” apply here?

[SpAmRaY]

None of the cherry clones have been on the market long enough to really have any long term use data.

[Puddsy]

None of the cherry clones have been on the market long enough to really have any long term use data.

this

[leech]

Hi, forum.

I’ve been using my mechanical keyboard (which is CM QFRi) equipped with Gateron Brown switches (the new white bottom SMD-LED compatible ones) for a bit less than a year. Before that I’ve been using that keyboard with its stock Cherry MX Brown switches for about the same amount of time – a year – until they were replaced with Gaterons in my pursuit of a better switch feeling. The new switches felt fine and I’ve had absolutely no problems with them up until recently, when I’ve noticed that some of the buttons have started to miss keypresses randomly. Sometimes they do that when they’re fully pressed, and if I wiggle them hard enough while they’re pressed or rapidly press them several times they seem to start functioning normally (sort of, for some period of time at least). I have O-rings installed on all of the keys, but they’ve never caused anything like that as there’s like at least 0.5 mm post-actuation travel distance.

The first thing I’ve thought about – bad or cracked soldering, so I’ve resoldered the switches that were showing the signs of malfunctioning. That haven’t provided any effect on the issue, unfortunately, so I’ve started searching for the root of the problem elsewhere (still hoping it’s not the keyboard’s MCU). Changing USB ports haven't provided any improvements either (doesn’t look like a USB problem anyway).

I’ve started measuring resistance between the contacts of a pressed switch (I’m using some unnamed ESR-meter board, the multimeter I have doesn’t seem to give consistent results in that resistance range). The 1+ year used Cherry MX Brown switches are showing the resistance in 0.3 to 0.5 Ohm range. The same applies to mint Gaterons (as I ordered a batch of 90 switches, 3 were left unused). The malfunctioning switches have been showing varying resistance, from 6 Ohm to infinity (depending on how I wiggle them or whatever else). So I’ve taken them apart and rubbed the contact parts with a needle and – voila – the resistance is back to normal (0.6 to 0.8 Ohm). The ones that have undergone the procedure haven't been showing any signs of malfunctioning, so far at least.

So here comes the question – does any research data on Cherry MX clones’ durability exist? Don’t the Gateron switches also have gold-plated contacts like the MX do? The post is not to claim anything or to convince anyone, as I could’ve measured wrong or done something else wrong. Besides, it should be also noted that I live in an area with more or less dense car traffic; some of the dust gets in the window. But should I bother with Gaterons and similar clones in the future, as I would like not to perform a full maintenance of my keyboard every year (considering that what I've found is correct)? Does the principle “Get the German genuine instead of a Chinese knock-off” apply here?

Proof or it hasn't happened.

We will accept youtube.

[Tactile]

One interesting factor is that the spare switches of the same age were fine. That would seem to suggest some environmental factor or use case. Do you have high humidity where you live? Were these switches lubed, or opened for any reason, prior to the problem? And, of course we have to ask, exactly how many cans of Mountain Dew were spilled into the keyboard before you noticed a problem?

[granitov]

One interesting factor is that the spare switches of the same age were fine. That would seem to suggest some environmental factor or use case. Do you have high humidity where you live? Were these switches lubed, or opened for any reason, prior to the problem? And, of course we have to ask, exactly how many cans of Mountain Dew were spilled into the keyboard before you noticed a problem?

Yes, they were lubed, as were the MX Browns. I could see how could it potentially affect the issue, but I couldn't notice any lube or lube-like residue on the contact parts, as I've only lubed the spring and parts of the stem that are affected by friction the most (the amount of lube was very small).

Humidity yearly average is around 70. The spare Gateron switches are kept in a plastic locking bag. No special condition or events like spilled drink occured.

[pomk]

I've had the same issue with (smd led) gateron blues, though not yet with normal gateron browns (1 year with blues, 5 months with browns. 5+ years with different cherry switches with only one cherry ever failing on me). I never opened them or anything like that. I've had to replace maybe 15-20% of the switches with mint ones and it's getting annoying. I believe that surface oxidation is indeed the cause, as it gets worse with a lower MCU voltage.

[dorkvader]

I remember a picture of someone who posted some corroded switches after they came out, I believe they were in Singapore, which is notoriously humid. I did a search and wasn't able to find it though.

Honestly, I harvest cherry switches for basically nothing from cheap boards on eBay, so I just use those. Blacks, browns and sometimes clears can be had for ~$30 for 100+ and you can often sell the keycaps for that. I have a stack of 5 cherry clear boards that I haven't got 'round to desoldering because I don't need them yet.

If you are able to for this keyboard, I would remove a problem switch and open it to see. I don't know what the gateron switch body is made from but cherry is POM so you can just spray in some contact cleaner or other solvent and see if that clears it up. I know the normal QFR is sorta a pain to desolder because its only a single sided PCB, but its an easy repair if it breaks. I have a very early production QFR that had the notorious right alt issue and I had to repair mine with a jumper.

edit: exitfire reports that there is some gateron corrosion. however I was not able to find that picture I saw of the corroded ones. Even cherry can corrode though. The only reference I was able to find was a while ago I referred to it without a link.

The Gateron ones slip right out of the housing when you apply minimal force to the bottom of the leaf. The cherry leafs require a bit of force to get out. The thicker leaf pushes right out, but the actual activating part of the leaf is stuck into the housing fairly well and requires some tweezers and force to get out. I only ruined 5-6 leafs from the Cherrys while the gaterons were all fine. The gateron ones are a little bit thicker than the cherry leafs though, so you'll have a little wiggle in the cherry leafs before you solder them in the gateron housings, and you'll have a little bit of trouble pushing the gateron leafs into a cherry housing. And yes, the gateron leafs are susceptible to corrosion. Out of the 100 blue switches I ordered, I had about 10 of them that were corroded before they even got to me.

[granitov]

I believe that surface oxidation is indeed the cause, as it gets worse with a lower MCU voltage.

Thanks for the useful info.

If you are able to for this keyboard, I would remove a problem switch and open it to see.

I have, but I couldn't see what exactly has happened to the contact pieces, looking from above they've seemed to have become somewhat darker. I've already soldered them back in and didn't use a magnifying device to check it out properly (and then I would have to kill a switch to remove one of the contacts as the pins are coated with solder). The rest of the leaf (that is not a rectangle contact piece) wasn't looking really much different from the mint ones. Then, as I've mentioned, I've rubbed both those rectangle pieces with a needle and the functioning is now back to normal, sorta, so that's most likely the root of the problem.

edit: exitfire reports that there is some gateron corrosion. however I was not able to find that picture I saw of the corroded ones. Even cherry can corrode though. The only reference I was able to find was a while ago I referred to it without a link.

The Gateron ones slip right out of the housing when you apply minimal force to the bottom of the leaf. The cherry leafs require a bit of force to get out. ... And yes, the gateron leafs are susceptible to corrosion. Out of the 100 blue switches I ordered, I had about 10 of them that were corroded before they even got to me.

Yes, I remember, too, occasionally pushing a leaf out of the housing just by pressing on the pin with a finger (when the pins werent coated with solder yet). Also thanks for the info, seems it's a material-related issue making them unsuitable for me. Which is a shame, as they've seemed to be a quality and cheap alternative to Cherry (and I have a bag of unused Gateron Reds, well...).

[Leslieann]

If the contacts are gold plated, and they should be, there shouldn't be any oxidation.

That said, the Chinese are not known for keeping their plating tanks very clean.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Cherry M8 in particular was offered with different contact platings:

M81: AuAg26Ni3
M82: AgPd30
M84: AuAg10

We don't actually know the exact alloy used by many of the manufacturers, and I don't honestly know what the difference is in terms of reliability.

[bondonin]

At this point, I can say that outemus are definitely too unreliable. They start failing in a few months to a year+ and I think its got to do with the lack of gold contacts like the ones in the original cherry mx switches. And they are the cheapest which probably makes sense. Not sure how gateron and kailh stack up but I have a feeling that they are considerably more reliable than outemus.

[AJM]

I had similar problems with Gateron silent Inks on two keyboards. But if I remember correctly - the problems was that they triggered twice (instead of not at all).
I have to admit that I lubed the switches (but not excessively). Anyway I have not problems with JWICK switches, which I've been using for a few years now.