Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide

[strict]

Can I use lithium grease for the silder? I have some lying around and I would like to use what I have already.

Personally, I would stick to the tried and true Krytox blends. If you have a switch or two lying around it's worth testing but I would be surprised if the results, both long term and short, are any better than unlubed.

[Zukoi]

Can I use lithium grease for the silder? I have some lying around and I would like to use what I have already.

Personally, I would stick to the tried and true Krytox blends. If you have a switch or two lying around it's worth testing but I would be surprised if the results, both long term and short, are any better than unlubed.

In the name of science then...

I got some Browns lying around and some lithium grease.

I read the entire thread and damn, you guys like krytox.

[KHAANNN]

Before I read the entire thread, I was going to use high viscosity RC silicon lube with some mixed in silicone grease on my springs and some low viscosity RC silicon lube on the stem, sliders and the switch top

After reading the entire thread, I'm still going to do the same, but it was still a good read, it's interesting how lubes from different interests/hobbies apply to switches

I'm currently using a keyboard with only-spring lubed switches, I'm pretty satisfied, it completely eliminated the pings that I complained about for a long while

I think the stem/slider lubing is far more risky, especially in the long run, as lube+dirt=gunk that will slow down the stem, however, I'm intending to apply the low viscosity lube from a rubbed brush that has no lube left, the silicone is pretty sticky, so even if the brush is rubbed after being dipped, the remaining lube on the brush should be enough and adequate for the job

I'm a bit disappointed that no one mentioned switch top lubing to improve/dampen the bottom up sounds (at least I missed it) - in any case, I will share my experience when I finalise my first build (first completely custom build that is)

[asgeirtj]

Before I read the entire thread, I was going to use high viscosity RC silicon lube with some mixed in silicone grease on my springs and some low viscosity RC silicon lube on the stem, sliders and the switch top

After reading the entire thread, I'm still going to do the same, but it was still a good read, it's interesting how lubes from different interests/hobbies apply to switches

I'm currently using a keyboard with only-spring lubed switches, I'm pretty satisfied, it completely eliminated the pings that I complained about for a long while

I think the stem/slider lubing is far more risky, especially in the long run, as lube+dirt=gunk that will slow down the stem, however, I'm intending to apply the low viscosity lube from a rubbed brush that has no lube left, the silicone is pretty sticky, so even if the brush is rubbed after being dipped, the remaining lube on the brush should be enough and adequate for the job

I'm a bit disappointed that no one mentioned switch top lubing to improve/dampen the bottom up sounds (at least I missed it) - in any case, I will share my experience when I finalise my first build (first completely custom build that is)

I think that lubing a mx switch with krytox won't gather dirt or have any problems in the long rung.  From my short testing with lubing a switch top it didn't make any difference (as some guy said on here only thing worth lubing is stem and channels (plus springs)).  I know that Lastpilot did it on some build of his but there he was using gateron top housings I believe which make more of an upstroke sound and do benefit from lubing I believe. 

[Fnzzy]

Would it matter if I used thick krytox lube from TechKeys on linear Gateron blacks? I know that thin lube is recommended for linears but I don't want to order some from overseas since I still have lots of tick lube left.

So would it make much of a difference?

[KHAANNN]

Would it matter if I used thick krytox lube from TechKeys on linear Gateron blacks? I know that thin lube is recommended for linears but I don't want to order some from overseas since I still have lots of tick lube left.

So would it make much of a difference?

I'm guessing, if you apply too much, it could cause a bit of a popping sound
I'm guessing, since it's thick, it would slow down the movement of the stem, dampen it, might be desirable or not desirable depending on what you like - it might be pneumatic-like/desirable

[heedpantsnow]

So is the OP still what people should be doing?  Or is it outdated?

[asgeirtj]

So is the OP still what people should be doing?  Or is it outdated?

Here's my mini guide to lubing (source: read all this thread and took down notes, watched videos, guides, personal experience after lubing several boards)

This is the best thing to do

Buy GH thick lube for clears browns and thin for linear

Buy a small paint brush (I use some warhammer brushes, you need two ideally if you're going for two different lubes)

Bonus optional step: buy gh spring lube

Lube these places: tunnels in the bottom switch housing (moderate amount), the leaf where it touches the stem (just a little), the sides of the stem (moderate amount), the front of the stem (only a little or else it will stick).

To get rid of ping 100% put a tiny amount of gh spring lube (gh thick lube will probably work just as well though) at the top and bottom of the spring.  The amount is so tiny that you merely get the top and bottom wet, you don't leave any sticking, you shouldn't be able to see the lube, just see the shine.  I gather that you don't want to put too much as it will drain down and muddle the switch.  I can confirm that putting this little works to remove ping completely, not a whimper of ping for me since I started doing this.

Now it's true that you're essentially double lubing in two places as you're lubing from both sides, but that's just to guarantee that all places will get lubed, after I started double lubing I got more consistent results.  Some guides recommend lubing the hole in the bottom housing but that hasn't made any difference for me. Also someone mentioned upper housing somewhere but I tried it and I didn't notice any difference.

Wfd has a good vid on how to do this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EaKBfLB28U.

What i do differently than him: don't lube bottom of stem and lower housing hole.  I put much more lube than him, more like this guy https://imgur.com/a/qPNAw#bEHlfJ2. I really like it well lubed and extra buttery smooth (like some people have talked about here), I haven't really ever overlubed a switch so don't worry about that.  And I don't dip the springs, I just do the top and bottom with a brush.

I find it easisest to just use a wooden toothpick to open the switches.  I use max keyboard switch tester to put the bottom housing into while I lube it and it is a good placeholder for when I put the things back into the switch.  I just use my fingers to hold the stem while lubing it.

[KHAANNN]

Here are my experiences: (thick lube: 5000cst silicone + super lube with ptfe from WASD, thin lube: 800cst silicone)

Cherry MX Clear
Lubed the spring with a thick lube, a lot of it
Lubed the stem guides / switch bottom - thin lube from now on
Lubed the switch top, side guides
Lubed the stem (pretty much all of it, including the parts that touch the metal leafs and the pole)
Result: Best switch I've used, no scratch, no ping, no electronical issues, a thocky and firm bottom down experience - might use thick lube for all parts, the thin lube weared down fast, yet the improvement is still there - the tactile experience is still much more smooth and pronounced

Cherry MX Blue
Full lubing: No sound
Spring lubing: Sound fades away as the lube jumps to the stem, sound gets reduced significantly, yet there is still a very weak click remaining after minutes of testing
Spring bottom lubing: Eliminates the ping, preserves the click, as a result, I will only lube the switch bottoms of my clicky switches, anything more than that messes with the click

Some thoughts: The lube definitely moves, so I don't think lubed keyboards would be fit for travel, especially air travel, the lube could get everywhere, the worst scenario is an electronical issue, but I have a hunch the switch keeps on working even when the metal leafs are lubed, as no one experienced/reported issues, so probably keyboards with clicky switches should be lubed very carefully and sparingly, and for linears/tactile switches, it's hard to go wrong, I say go crazy with the lube, worst case scenario, it would pop for 5-10 clicks, than the lube would move down and leave you with an improved click expeirence

[mkawa]

How long does the lube last before it starts to go back go normal so to speak?

if you use krytox? it will continue being slippery until after your great great great grandchildren pass the keyboard down to their progeny.

krytox has many fun properties:

1) immune to every common and uncommon solvent. in fact, the only compounds that are known to break down krytox are something called lewis acids. the easiest way to make a lewis acid is to mix hydrochloric acid with iron (II). (note that teh hcl itself won't do a damned thing to krytox.) once you tend to the reaction and dry the material into crystals, you can then add distilled water to yield iron (III) chloride. this is a lewis acid. even then, it takes quite a while for a lewis acid (an hour or two) to break down the polymers in krytox.

2) krytox has high surface tension. my krytox mixes are designed to maximize surface tension while maintaining workability. that is, i spent a whole bunch of time playing around with the compounds and having dupont make batches of grease and oil to my specs in order to make sure that thin layers of lubricant do not migrate. krytox stayed where you put it, basically.

3) krytox oil does not vaporize. the pressure and/or vacuum and/or heat required to cause krytox oil into it gaseous phase requires either putting it in a bottle at the bottom of the marianas trench, shooting it into outer space (and even then, most of it would just laugh and enjoy being there.) i sometimes clean off excess lube from lubricated metal parts by hitting them with a butane torch and then dunking the part into water. this slags impurities and melts the ptfe onto the part. mechanical bonds between the ptfe and oil form so that the lubricant layer approaches nm thickness.

anyway, so what's crucial in applying krytox is you apply very thin layers. if you accidentally overlube a part, you can wipe off the excess lube with a microfiber cloth, or (and this is counterintuitive) dunk it in water and then let it air dry. krytox is extremely hydrophobic and is basically insoluble in water. (there exist pfpe-like macromolecules that are somewhat soluble in fluids, but the copolymer structure that is soluble does not occur in krytox)

oh, and w/rt contamination (collecting dirt), for small amounts of contaminant, the oil is slippery enough that small amounts of dirt get "trapped" inside the relatively tight copolymer structure. that said, if you dump sand into your keyboard, you will saturate its ability to capture the contaminant and accelerate wear on the parts over time.

[KHAANNN]

After mkawa's promotion and researching krytox more, I decided to get myself some krytox too - I was under the impression that all of these lubes were roughly the same and silicone based, I had no idea that krytox didn't include any silicone and had such commendable properties

Anyway, I'm thinking of getting Krytox 105 and 205 to mix and use, but honestly I have no idea how thick and thin they are, I would appreciate some advice (buying advice, for a vide variety of mixing and lubrication)
I also need some extremely thick lube for the costar stabiliser inserts, the WASD lube is not thick enough, it wears out in a week or so

[sethk_]

I used krytox 204 on 62g clears, which people have though was weird, but I like how they feel compared to any other lube I have used, but maybe I have been applying too much

[mkawa]

krytox greases consist of: ptfe flakes and some binders (very little, but all are some variant on ptfe with about the same degree of fluorination). an oil is then mixed slowly into the bulk flake until it reaches the consistency of peanut butter. the oil is actually the really chemically shocking part. perfluoropolyether (PFPE) is a viscous fluid that some very clever fellow came up with quite a while ago, but his discover gained very little traction until recently. the key idea behind the behavior and use of PFPE copolymer is that it has unique chemical stability; it is effectively inert. the notion of a polymer bulk substance, especially one that is composed of heterogenous polymer chains, is something that very few macromolecular substances can claim.

What do I mean by inert? Imagine a noble gas in liquid phase, and those are more or less the properties you get with PFPE. As I mentioned above, lewis acids are known to degrade PFPE bulk, but it's unclear to me how much extra energy has to be put into that reaction for it to cause serious degradation because:

the polymers that comprise PFPE have zero valence at their externally facing elements, which are all fluorine (hence we say that it is a fluorine capped substance). further, because fluorine has such high valence, and we know that each fluorine cap is fully bonded into its monomer, the energy needed to separate the fluorine caps from their polymer groupings is extremely high.

as an aside, ptfe (trade name teflon), polytetrafluorethylene gains its relative inertness and extremely low coefficient of friction to the exact same phenomenon, but to a lesser degree. in fact, ptfe is partially fluorine capped. hence, in order to heavily degrade bulk ptfe homopolymer, a much larger amount of energy is needed than with most plastics.

so, to recap: krytox oil is a polymer substance known as PFPE. krytox grease is a semisolid that consists of ptfe flakes mixed into PFPE oil. (and actually this is the other really amazing thing about krytox branded materials: the relative inertness of these two substances means that they will refuse to chemically bond with each other. there are super fascinating mechanical connections between the specific heterogenous PFPE mixture that is used to mechanically bind the ptfe flakes into a matrix formed by the PFPE. there is some incredibly fascinating breakthrough research happening right now on the solubility of electrolytes into PFPE-like bulk substances. ionic lithium is extremely unstable, and DMC, the substrate in which lithium in batteries is held, is also fairly unstable. however, it turns out that there are interesting monomeric combinations of DMC and PFPE that have no flash point, but still maintain lithium solubility. if this research pans out, it would be a significant breakthrough in energy storage technology)

OK, great, so products:

the designation GPL means general purpose lubricant, as they have multiple lines with various attitude for, eg, actually shooting into space.. the naming scheme is GPL {1,2}0{1...7} such that 10X is an oil, and 20X is a grease. the names are exactly as straightforward as you would think: 201 is ptfe plus 101. 202 is ptfe plus 102, and so on. this seems non-obvious, since they all have the same dynamic density and the same consistency at room temperature, but that is only because a product design decision was made to produce only greases that feel like peanut butter. go figure.

hence, if you get 105 and 205 and mix them together, the result is a 205-like material that has a higher ratio of oil to ptfe flake. this is not a bad thing. krytox greases are very hard to apply to tiny things like switch parts in the exact same way that peanut butter would be. so you can think of "thick krytox" as being lots of 205 and a bit of 105, and "thin krytox" as being lots of 105 and a bit of 205. it's a bit more complex than that, because the 101 is less viscous at room temperature than 102, which is less viscous than 103, and so on.

oh, and yes, i've tried applying 20x directly on various things, but when it comes down to it, the reason why the 20x greases are the consistency of smashed legumes is because that's the correct dynamic viscosity of grease for packing large high pressure bearings. so i've definitely come down on the less viscous side over the years.

[mkawa]

I think the folks over at Dupont would have a nice laugh if they knew we were using their industrial grade lubricants for our keyboards.   ) )

they did. the first time we talked, my rep literally spent 5 minutes uncontrollably laughing his butt off. at one point he had to mute his mic.

[KHAANNN]

That was a very interesting read mkawa, thank you

At this point, I will probably buy various 20* 10*'s over amazon (Likely 105,205 and 207 for the stabs) - get them sent quickly over DHL, and hope customs are in a good mood
I'm not sure how to declare them, Krytox sounds a lot like medication - I initially skipped on quality lubes just for this reason, as I was afraid they could cause issues at customs

[mkawa]

PM me.

[Thumper_]

So i lubed my stock browns and for the first hour they felt really outta-space like, but i really like the way it turned out. I used Zeals Lube on the Spring, stem and sliders.

[KHAANNN]

Here's ~$75 worth of Krytox, hand and switches for scale



I had linear greys lying around, so I quickly opened one, applied GPL105 on the stem/spring without even removing them, extremely small amounts, normally I lube the spring, stem and housing thoroughly with a brush, but I just dripped very teeny amounts of GPL105 instead, since I was in a lazy mood

Impressively, even with a 20 second sloppy lube job, the ping is gone on the linear grey switch - very impressive

If I could do it all over again, I would buy from the bigger sizes, I got 0.5oz 0.5oz 1oz packages as I was afraid larger ones could cause customs issues (larger amounts to freely mix them to my liking without worries)

The linear scratch is still there tho, it's either that or minimal bubbling from the lube, so I'm glad I got the 205 too

But for the extremely lazy out there, you can just buy a bottle of 1oz GPL105, open the switch, lube several points without even removing the stem, close, enjoy

My next quest is Cherry MX Green lubrication, I will likely try lubing only the spring/switch bottom first, as anything more might cause the lube to jump to the stem and prevent the click, reason for lubing in this case is ping prevention

[KHAANNN]

Here is my review of multiple lubes, applied all of them the same way, superficially without removing the stem, on extremely pingy and scratchy grey linears: (the keypress spreads the lube/oil, so from my experience, application detail doesn't make any noticeable difference)

GPL105: Works immediately, reduces scratching, eliminates the ping, for some reason the movement is a bit sandy rather than scratchy
GPL207: Disappointed by the viscosity, it's oil by my standards and not grease (I even wonder whether it decomposed into oil and grease and the grease is in there, but likely not, it's a 440cst oil) - better than GPL105, I would just go ahead and apply this to all the parts, compared to GPL105, the scratching is slightly lower
Silicone 5000cst grease/oil: I was expecting this to be better than the Krytox's, but it's not, however that are very close, Krytox's cover the applied area faster, after I closed the switch I heard the ping for 2-3 presses, after that it disappeared, the scratch is higher than the Krytox's

My honest advice would be: Get GPL207, apply it everywhere but the metal leaf in tiny amounts - Krytox wins in terms of claimed longevity

Feeling wise speaking, I don't think I could differentiate between the 3 of them when typing, the silicone would likely feel better before it washes down - but I know that it washes down fast, otherwise, when you first apply it, the keypress experience is almost pneumatic (Have a silicone lubed tactile keyboard, it lost that feeling, however it still provides a scratchless, pingless, pure typing experience after a month)

Krytox greases are at the sub-1000 cst range, there are even 100.000 cst magnitude RC-Silicone oils out there, for the adventurous, they might provide a completely different experience - I could only test 5000cst silicone, going to use GPL207 for my next builds, however, it's not viscose enough for stabiliser inserts (far from it, but since the WASD-lube also washes down after a week, I might as well try GPL207 there too)

Edit: Indeed the first thing that comes out of GPL207 is the dissolved oil, after that oil, grease comes out, applied the GPL207's grease to an MX Blue's switch's bottom, it successfully prevented the ping while keeping the click, impressive once again

[mkawa]

The gpl 20x series are greases with the same consistency (peanut butter). The oil can separate in shipment, but it's just physical settling and only happens in bulk material. If you are only getting oil from your 200 series you need to remix the grease.

[KHAANNN]

The gpl 20x series are greases with the same consistency (peanut butter). The oil can separate in shipment, but it's just physical settling and only happens in bulk material. If you are only getting oil from your 200 series you need to remix the grease.

Now that I opened the 207, it's out of the question, but gently nudging the grease pack seems like a good idea to at least mix it back to a degree
Mixing is also out of the question since the whole thing is 0.5oz'es, 0.2of it would probably be wasted in the process :D

[KHAANNN]

I have to say I like silicone lube a bit more, it's smoother, it's silent compared to krytox

There is this little "bubbling" sound with Krytox that doesn't seem to go away, it was more like a "pop" with silicone and it went away with just a little bit of typing

I don't know what the long run results will be, but for a first impression silicone lube wins, imo

I would still use Krytox again for a future build, however If I knew the sound will likely be permanent, I would segment my tactile switches too, to put the bubbly switches into alphas/num-row or something, I have one in my spacebar right now, it's very slightly annoying, since I'm paying attention to it at this stage, but for regular usage, it's ignorable, and I'm hoping with some breaking in it will go away

I also lube the switch top part where the stem touches the switch top, the sound might be stem hitting that lube at each bottom-up, or it might be the lubed stem arms that cause a bubbling sound as the stem rubs the metal leaf

TL;DR: If you have silicone lube, and if you're wondering whether you really need Krytox, you probably don't

[SpAmRaY]

How much lube are you using? I've never had lube add any sounds.

[Lastpilot]

I have to say I like silicone lube a bit more, it's smoother, it's silent compared to krytox

There is this little "bubbling" sound with Krytox that doesn't seem to go away, it was more like a "pop" with silicone and it went away with just a little bit of typing

I don't know what the long run results will be, but for a first impression silicone lube wins, imo

I would still use Krytox again for a future build, however If I knew the sound will likely be permanent, I would segment my tactile switches too, to put the bubbly switches into alphas/num-row or something, I have one in my spacebar right now, it's very slightly annoying, since I'm paying attention to it at this stage, but for regular usage, it's ignorable, and I'm hoping with some breaking in it will go away

I also lube the switch top part where the stem touches the switch top, the sound might be stem hitting that lube at each bottom-up, or it might be the lubed stem arms that cause a bubbling sound as the stem rubs the metal leaf

TL;DR: If you have silicone lube, and if you're wondering whether you really need Krytox, you probably don't

Popping sound typically means you used too much lube and its creating air bubbles when the plunger goes into the lower housing. :[ It does not go away with time.

[KHAANNN]

The lube is white, when used sparingly it becomes transparent, I lay a thin layer, however I make sure the color is slightly more than transparent at places

The reason for this is the pneumatic keypress experience that I'm after, the lube isn't too extreme, but it's enough to create just a little bit of friction to enhance the keypress experience

I'm using 62g activation springs from MK, I tested some switches with coins, they are closer to 100g on bottom downs :)

The sound is more of an issue during testing, when you pay attention to it, however during regular typing it blends in, I'm hoping the switches would break in just a little bit

Some switches also turned out to be smoother than others, I didn't segment them too well and ended up with a slightly stiff command switch that I press with my thumb, so If anyone is going to attempt something similar, I think it's a good idea to put the lighter switches to the keys that are pressed with the thumb

I think the sound is a bit related to this, it might be coming from the stem, it's also probably from switches that have a randomly strong tactile bump, as the mellow bumped ones seem more silent

Except for the command switch, I have no regrets, but I just don't want to remove the keycaps, open the case, re-solder the keyboard, just to mellow-down a switch by 10-15g

[Lastpilot]

Okay. Let me say that I do not by any means type these words with any intention of insulting you or causing any harm. I am only trying to share as much of my insight on your issue as possible.

The lube is white, when used sparingly it becomes transparent, I lay a thin layer, however I make sure the color is slightly more than transparent at places

The reason for this is the pneumatic keypress experience that I'm after, the lube isn't too extreme, but it's enough to create just a little bit of friction to enhance the keypress experience

With that much lube you might be taking the cherry switch outside of its design intentions. Lubrication is lubrication - assisting and preserving the components being used. Chasing pneumatic (or rather in this case hydraulic) experiments will always result in inconsistencies because the housing is not designed for that much liquid.

I made similar mistakes on my first lube job because I thought it felt nice. However, trying to utilize that amount of lube inside a switch is just not practical. It's just about impossible to recreate a consistent switch when you are working with that much moving lubrication (which explains your tactile bump variation). Krytox travels - and even moreso when used in high volume. With that much lube, storing your board upside down will lubricate your caps. Normal daily use will see much of the lubrication will seep into the PCB and keyboard housing.

I'm using 62g activation springs from MK, I tested some switches with coins, they are closer to 100g on bottom downs

"62g" typically refers to the approximate weight needed for the stem to reach actuation point in a switch - not full bottom down. If you want to take a look at bare spring forces (not including friction from leaf) see this thread: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46449.0

Pictures and graphs do not work but there is a table in there. I've just PM'ed the OP asking him to restore the images since it looks like he personally hosted them.

The sound is more of an issue during testing, when you pay attention to it, however during regular typing it blends in, I'm hoping the switches would break in just a little bit

Some switches also turned out to be smoother than others, I didn't segment them too well and ended up with a slightly stiff command switch that I press with my thumb, so If anyone is going to attempt something similar, I think it's a good idea to put the lighter switches to the keys that are pressed with the thumb

I think the sound is a bit related to this, it might be coming from the stem, it's also probably from switches that have a randomly strong tactile bump, as the mellow bumped ones seem more silent

Except for the command switch, I have no regrets, but I just don't want to remove the keycaps, open the case, re-solder the keyboard, just to mellow-down a switch by 10-15g

Lubing methods have many varieties and controversies, but if anything defines a "successful" lube job, it is consistency across the board. The tactility bump or smoothness should not vary across individual switches.  This is another symptom of over-lubing, but can also be a symptom of a bent contact leaf.

To find the source of the popping sound just do a full press and full release very slowly and see what contact points are being made or separated. You can study the travel of a switch by testing an open one. The easier way would be to observe through a clear switch top.

With that being said, I'm almost positive this is excessive lube in the plunger/topspring/understem contact point, because that's the only time I've encountered the sound while using "thick" krytox with MX Clears. You can test this by pressing and releasing the switch within the bottom half of the travel (meaning staying down after acutuation -> bottoming out -> releasing only so far without touching the bump -> repeating) If you go slow enough you should hear the pop right before and/or right after bottoming out, which means the plunger is pushing air into the remaining lubrication that has settled at the bottom of your switch and popping air bubble(s).

Okay, phew. I hope that helps.

[KHAANNN]

Thanks a lot for your insight

The main reason of lubing is to suppress/eliminate the imperfections of the Cherry switch, so in that regard, this lube job is indeed initially not very successful, as it potentially introduced a potentially new imperfection, my application layer is probably 0.2mm thin at most by the way, so it's not really too excessive in my opinion, I just laid down a layer of lube to a baby-food jar and lubed 2 keyboards with it, using a brush, there is still some left, I guess only comparative applications and side-by-side tests could reveal the truth at this point

I honestly have no idea currently about where the sound comes from, it might even be native to the tactile grey stems or an imperfection of the leafs

If I detected this issue before, I would probably inspect what it was and eliminate that source, currently it's really hard to achieve (with clicky switches for example, I eliminate about half of the switches as they don't click well, something like this might be needed)

After further inspection, it seems to happen right after the stem pushes the leaf after an activation (so it happens at the deactivation)

It could be from lube/lubing, or it might be the native sound of these stems, at this point I'm not sure, my previous experience was with clear stems and silicone lubes, and I don't recall anything like this (it's not a controlled experiment, so these are mostly observations overall)

It only happens at fast keypresses, I guess at this point, only time will tell whether it will wear off, as I didn't finish my secondary keyboard yet, I don't have the ability to open up a switch and investigate it, after working on keyboards for weeks, I'm not too interested in it either, one thing is for sure tho, after using these lubed switches, non-lubed clears are light-years behind, with those, I can hear the springs cringing, even if this keyboard is over-lubed and forever haunted with pops,bubbles, I will enjoy using it :)

[Lastpilot]

I see. I don't think I've ever encountered noise that happens only at fast key presses, so it could be another problem entirely.

If it makes you feel any better the first board I lubed had popping sounds and I used it for about a year before finally doing a proper rebuild lol. And yes, it is still way better than a stock board!

Well I wish you luck with your next build. I'm sorry I couldn't help much.

[KHAANNN]

I see. I don't think I've ever encountered noise that happens only at fast key presses, so it could be another problem entirely.

If it makes you feel any better the first board I lubed had popping sounds and I used it for about a year before finally doing a proper rebuild lol. And yes, it is still way better than a stock board!

Well I wish you luck with your next build. I'm sorry I couldn't help much.

Thanks, I'm hoping it's just the sound of the bump/friction and it will go away with time, I likely picked it up as the spacebar amplifies the sound and the lube eliminates any other sounds

I might also do something similar :) Each keyboard seems to have at least some kind of problem, a minor scratch sound is not that big of a deal I guess, I'm really overwhelmed after days of keyboard stuff, so an instant investigation is unlikely

Yet there is still that lingering curiosity, so I will likely uncover the issue and share my findings at one point in the future

[KHAANNN]

As a small update, minor sound imperfections go away in time, and are generally not noticeable during normal usage

As another interesting thing, once you lubricate all the switches/switch-components, approximately half the switches produce a small tingling, I'm guessing this originates from the metal leafs, as changing the springs didn't change the sound, but once again, this is not noticeable during normal usage, yet easily noticeable during testing

[OperationT]

Phew, just read through the whole thread  ). First, thank you all for the accumulating the helpful knowledge on this thread.

I finally got my 62g, 65g, 68g springs ready for the Ergo Clear mod, but I still have some questions regarding lubing, if you could so kindly provide your expertise.

1) I don't want to dampen bottom-out clack and upstroke-sound. Is it correct that lubing these spots will dampen these sounds: the stem pole  (that inserts into the spring), the bottom housing hole (where spring goes), and the spring itself? Because the stem pole is the part that hits the bottom of the switch when bottoming-out, and the oil dampens the sound?
2) I want to eliminate ping, but given that I don't want to dampen the bottoming-out sound, would it be accurate to say that I should use just enough Victorinox oil on the springs to eliminate the ping, while in order to preserve clack/upstroke sound as much as possible?
3) I want to preserve 100% tactility. Lubing which part of the switch risks decreasing tactility? The two "legs" that comes in contact with the gold metal leaf?

(I plan on using the VPF-1506 + GPL-206 mix for stem slider and housing rails, and Victorinox oil for stem pole, the bottom housing hole, and the spring.)

Any help is appreciated!

[KHAANNN]

1) You don't, or do you?

I have the stem pole lubed just slightly, I would say that it makes the bottom-down sound more homogenous, but I didn't prove it by comparing it to a non-lubed one, don't lube the pole/hole much, otherwise you will create yourself a sticky switch, which will cause sticking sounds

2) You are confused regarding how things get together, the spring goes around the hole/pole, it isn't connected to them, it just wraps around them, so go ahead and lube the spring with ease of mind, don't lube the top part of the spring too much

3) If you like the tactility as it is, don't lube the legs, they are already pre-lubed with silicone lube, just leave that lube as it is

If you have to be extremely safe, just lube the bottom of the spring and the sliders of the stem, it sounds like that's what you want

Also why bring Victorinox to the mix?

[OperationT]

1) You don't, or do you?

I have the stem pole lubed just slightly, I would say that it makes the bottom-down sound more homogenous, but I didn't prove it by comparing it to a non-lubed one, don't lube the pole/hole much, otherwise you will create yourself a sticky switch, which will cause sticking sounds

2) You are confused regarding how things get together, the spring goes around the hole/pole, it isn't connected to them, it just wraps around them, so go ahead and lube the spring with ease of mind, don't lube the top part of the spring too much

3) If you like the tactility as it is, don't lube the legs, they are already pre-lubed with silicone lube, just leave that lube as it is

If you have to be extremely safe, just lube the bottom of the spring and the sliders of the stem, it sounds like that's what you want

Also why bring Victorinox to the mix?

Hi Khan,

Forgive my questions for being so specific. The details actually matter to me 

1) It wasn't a typo when I said I don't want to dampen bottoming-out, but I understand your asking for clarification, because I am equally surprised that everyone seems to like their keyboard being dampened by lubrication. For the same reason I didn't enjoy o-rings. I very much enjoy the clack when bottoming-out as well as the sound when the key cap returns on the upstroke. I just don't like the other additional sound of the ping.

By "homogenous", do you mean a) the bottoming-out noises that a single key makes in a single key-stroke is of a similar quality, or b) the bottom-out noises of all the keys on the keyboard are of similar quality?

2) I was indeed confused - thanks for clearing that up. Why do you recommend not lubing the top part of the spring too much?

3) Just to be certain, these are the legs we are both referring to, right?
 

I intend to use Victorinox for the springs, as it was quite frequently recommended on this thread (high viscosity oil for eliminating ping). I just got mixed up with how the switch is put together, so my revised use on Victorinox is only on the spring (not on the stem pole or housing hole anymore).

[KHAANNN]

I mean (a), a single key sounds great, not extremely sure about uniformity, but there isn't any easily noticeable non-uniformity

3) Yes

If you like switches being scratchy sounding, if you like the bottom down/up sounds as they are, you can just go ahead any only lubricate the spring, I also love the bottom/up down sounds, and they are always there, even if you lube those sections, lubing can't prevent sounds other than the ping, it only changes them (not too much at that, I'm not entirely sure even if the change is noticeable, but I lube just in case, comparing to a non-lubed keyboard, a lubed one is lightyears ahead, so I'm guessing it works overall)

I have a Cherry MX Green keyboard, I only lubricated the spring bottom, since luricating anything else prevents the click, only lubing the spring bottom prevented the ping while leaving everything else as they are

Clicky switches are more risky, yet with a tactile switch, you can lube more than the spring bottom, even if the lube jumps from the spring, it shouldn't cause a severe issue, while on a clicky switch, the risk is real

Another great advice is, buy 10s of switches, experiment on them, mark the switches, test the switches, use the method you like

With tactile's you will see that lubing everything provides great results, with clicky switches, the only thing that worked for me was the spring-bottom lubed ones, everything else failed, it seems to me like you approach tactile's like I approached clicky's

[jaesen]

Hey guys, what should I use for the stem hole and the stem? Thinking of using high viscosity oil but i'm not certain if oils are for stems/stem holes. I'm still in the planning phase of my  build and so far I have the following for lubing my clears:

Victorinox high viscosity oil on the spring's top and bottom and the stem and stem hole.
Geekhackers V2 from ZealPC on the stem slider, slider rails, leaves and stem front (the part that goes in contact with the leaves).

I already have the lubricants on their way - I just want to confirm I'm using a suitable product (not the product quality but rather the type...oil/grease etc.) for all the different areas. Wouldn't want to use something incompatible and completely ruin my switches

Also is it okay to use Geekhackers V2 on the stabilisers as well or is it not recommend to use a blend for the stabilizers?

Thanks in advance! ^_^

[KHAANNN]

Hey guys, what should I use for the stem hole and the stem? Thinking of using high viscosity oil but i'm not certain if oils are for stems/stem holes. I'm still in the planning phase of my  build and so far I have the following for lubing my clears:

Victorinox high viscosity oil on the spring's top and bottom and the stem and stem hole.
Geekhackers V2 from ZealPC on the stem slider, slider rails, leaves and stem front (the part that goes in contact with the leaves).

I already have the lubricants on their way - I just want to confirm I'm using a suitable product (not the product quality but rather the type...oil/grease etc.) for all the different areas. Wouldn't want to use something incompatible and completely ruin my switches

Also is it okay to use Geekhackers V2 on the stabilisers as well or is it not recommend to use a blend for the stabilizers?

Thanks in advance! ^_^

Can't comment on your general lube choices, they don't sound good, I would just stick to pure Krytox's and mix them myself

Other than this, don't lube the stem/hole too much, I just lube the stem pole with a dry brush, the same brush I use for all around lubing, and make sure the bottom of the stem's pole has some lube too, with hopes that it dampens the sound just a little bit

However, if you apply too much, you will make things 10 times worse as the stem pole will always produce weird sticking sounds

Honestly, I can't even detect whether my stem pole/hole lubing makes any change, so you might skip it too, spring + stem makes the most change

[jaesen]

Hey guys, what should I use for the stem hole and the stem? Thinking of using high viscosity oil but i'm not certain if oils are for stems/stem holes. I'm still in the planning phase of my  build and so far I have the following for lubing my clears:

Victorinox high viscosity oil on the spring's top and bottom and the stem and stem hole.
Geekhackers V2 from ZealPC on the stem slider, slider rails, leaves and stem front (the part that goes in contact with the leaves).

I already have the lubricants on their way - I just want to confirm I'm using a suitable product (not the product quality but rather the type...oil/grease etc.) for all the different areas. Wouldn't want to use something incompatible and completely ruin my switches

Also is it okay to use Geekhackers V2 on the stabilisers as well or is it not recommend to use a blend for the stabilizers?

Thanks in advance! ^_^

Can't comment on your general lube choices, they don't sound good, I would just stick to pure Krytox's and mix them myself

Other than this, don't lube the stem/hole too much, I just lube the stem pole with a dry brush, the same brush I use for all around lubing, and make sure the bottom of the stem's pole has some lube too, with hopes that it dampens the sound just a little bit

However, if you apply too much, you will make things 10 times worse as the stem pole will always produce weird sticking sounds

Honestly, I can't even detect whether my stem pole/hole lubing makes any change, so you might skip it too, spring + stem makes the most change

Thanks for your input! Geekhackers v2 is a mixture of Krytox 1506 and 206. I would have used the DuPont silicone teflon everybody uses instead of Victorinox but that stuff isn't available here or not the DuPont brand anyways.

I'll keep all your tips in mind!

[KHAANNN]

DuPont isn't available here either, before krytox's I was using rc silicone oils, can't vouch for the longevity as I haven't used them for long, but they leave a better initial impression

In any case, most lubes work ok. - just make sure you don't use too much, it's also a good idea to test the method you are going to use on a test switch, use that switch, see how it responds, how it sounds etc.

[asgeirtj]

I second that lubing the hole and the bottom of the stem doesn't do anything, i use o-rings/trampoline mod anyway.

this video

really helps

his high viscosity = geekhack thick lube for tactile switches/thin geekhack lube for linears
you can use victorinox or geekhack spring lube for the springs to get rid of ping, you only need to wet the top and bottom every so slightly, no need to dip the whole thing like this guy.  I also put a little bit more lube than this guy, I'd test a few switches and put more and more lube until they start to feel gummy.  I also do the leaf where the slider legs touch them.  It might seem redundant to the leaf and also the legs since it's the same area but I do it to make sure everything is covered.  The same applies to the channels/stem sides.  I once only ever did one of those things and some switches didn't come out as smooth as a result.  Lastly you should lube the channels/side of the stem well, but be wary of putting too much on leaf/stem legs as I believe it is more of an factor in gumming up the switch. 

It looks like wfd in that vid uses a little bit to little lube for my tastes at least, check these pics out




this guy probably uses a little bit too much, I'd maybe put 1/2 of that or 2/3, so a middle ground between wfd and those pics. 

[phoenix1234]

this guy probably uses a little bit too much, I'd maybe put 1/2 of that or 2/3, so a middle ground between wfd and those pics.

It's personal preference perhaps.
IMO, putting too much lube may have negative effect, so in my case, I only put a thin layer (formula: krytox 204 + 103, 50:50).

[rpeterclark]

this guy probably uses a little bit too much, I'd maybe put 1/2 of that or 2/3, so a middle ground between wfd and those pics.

It's personal preference perhaps.
IMO, putting too much lube may have negative effect, so in my case, I only put a thin layer (formula: krytox 204 + 103, 50:50).

Show Image

The zip-tied screwdrivers are really clever!

[OperationT]

Finally got around doing the Ergo Clear mod! My testing was so encompassing that it took a loooooong time (days) for the whole process. Working with soldering/de-soldering for the first time, and having to desolder LEDs on my WASD Code also contributed to the time length of the mod. Anyhow, I'm very pleased with the mod (plus lube), and it was totally worth the effort.

Springs/Switches Tested:
non-lubed 62g Ergo Clears, lubed 62g Ergo Clears, non-lubed 65g Ergo Clears, lubed 65g Ergo Clears, non-lubed 68g Ergo Clears, non-lubed 65g Zealios, non-lubed 67g Zealios.

Different Lubing Methods Tried:
1) White Fire Dragon's way (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EaKBfLB28U)
2) Stem pole, housing hole, and spring
3) Spring only
4) Stem sliders and spring only.
Note: #2 to 4 uses the same lube and same amount of lube as #1, just different areas.

Opinions:
- Liked 65g Ergo Clear the most, but 62g is so popular, so I lubed these two to test. 68g was too heavy, similar to stock MX Clears - didn't lube to test.
- Tried lubing everything (the WFD way), and disliked very much. I am the oddball here, but I prefer completely non-lubed over this method, if I had to choose one (there is a better compromise, later discussed). Lubing everything reduced tactility significantly, and dampened bottom out sound significantly - two things I love. The ultra smoothness replacing the scratchiness is a big plus, but not worth sacrificing tactility and bottom-out sound. Just my opinion.

Observations:
- Counter-intuitively, I found that lubing the stem pole and housing hole reduced tactility by a little. I did not bother lubing the stem legs only to see if that has the biggest reduction in tactility, but I strongly believe it does.
- Lubing the spring (w/ Victorinox Oil) reduces the ping significantly. Using WFD's way of lubing the springs was sufficient to reduce ping down to 0-15%. Some switches still ping very softly within said range when held right next to ear - not due to different amounts of lube, but simply because not all springs/switches are identical. However, this is nothing to worry about, as 0-10% will be inaudible in regular typing distance, and with key caps bottoming out to cover this little ping. Applying more lube can lower the ping even more down to 0-5%, but I feel that the added amount of spring lube also dampened tactility a little, hence not recommended.
- De-lubing a switch/spring with Isopropyl Rubbing Alcohol, as suggested by many, is not as effective as using soap, and is very time-consuming. I comprehensively and repeated wiped all the parts (hole, guides, pole) to de-lube the switch, but realized that the tactility and bottoming out volume did not return much. Using soap would require too much effort to clean without soaking them in a bucket, which I think destroys the switches. You would be better off just replacing them to save you the time.
- Unrelated: LED heightens the bottoming-out! Key caps (cherry profile) actually hit LEDs (the usual type) on my WASD Code, which causes the bottom out. That means key travel is also reduced! Without the LED, the bottoming out is caused by the insides of the key cap hitting the top of the switch housing. (See the other thread for more details).

Conclusion:
- I lubed the springs and the top halves of the stem sliders only (using WFD's amount and lubrication (Krytox mix and Victorinox oil), afraid I'd lose tactility and bottoming-out volume again. Tactility and bottom-out volume was not sacrificed with this method, however. Lubed springs eliminates ping completely at normal distance and with key caps. Bottom-out sounds much more homogeneous in terms of sound frequencies - high pitches gone and lower pitches remaining, due to elimination of ping (not sure if lubing sliders have anything to do with it), which sounds much more solid and just overall much more pleasant. Scratchiness pretty much eliminated, but not as smooth as lubing the whole switch, of course. However, as stated, the super smoothness is not worth sacrificing tactility and bottom-out volume, IMO. I suppose smoothness is not as important to me than to others, or tactility/bottom-out volume is more important to me, or both.

Hope that helps the next modder. Good luck!   

[nhyrum]

mkawa, you make me want to resume my chem e degree... lewis acids are the best. on a slightly different note, my grandpa has a 5 gallon jug of copper (II) chloride that has always facinated me

I have a few questions, but for the sake of keeping things in line, i will research other threads and sections of this place and ask there.

it just so happens i bought krytox 102 a week ago, looks like i can use it to lube my new keyboard(when i decide what i want) and i can also buy me some 205!

this thread has some amazing info on it. a lot of info. you keyboard nerds really get into your stuff! but we all have our nerd-outs! I got a  lot to do to my new keyboard...

Edit: krytox 102 is way too thin for keyboards.  I used about 1/4 oz on my cheap Microsoft keyboard (it needed cleaning. I got it free second hand and it was nasty... Pet hair all up under the keys... ). It runs way to fast. I'll try mixing it with some 205 for my next keyboard and using a paintbrush and a small Tupperware container.

[lqf2b8]

That is a roach clip. Blunts just need fingers

[strict]

That is a roach clip. Blunts just need fingers

[bocahgundul]

Can someone tell me the bets mix for linear switch?

[KHAANNN]

My previous dream switch was Cherry MX Gray Tactile + 60-62g activation springs (not bottom-down, but rather the activation rated ones MK sells, so they are 80g+) + GPL105/205/207 mix for all contact points, including the springs

Since with usage, these switches become too light and soft, I decided to try something else today, lubed a stock MX Gray, with stock spring, with only GPL207

I was expecting a squishy but hard and tactile switch, yet the resulting switch is initially worse than a Brown, almost no tactility, doesn't feel heavy either, but definitely irritatingly squishy

I'm hoping it might grow on me after a while, maybe improve after the lube washes a bit, yet currently, it's a failed experiment

I will see whether using GPL105 soft lube on the stem-arms will improve the tactility a bit

Mainly I'm trying to match the feeling of silicone-lubed switches, I used to lube all contact points with silicone lubes, the resulting switch was slow-ish/squishy but very tactile, a unique experience

(Edit: As a plus, GPL207 is able to silence the Gray springs, no ping afterwards)

[KHAANNN]

After the GPL207-only experiment, tried various other things

1) Tested GPL105 for the stem arms (the parts that touch the metal leaf) - with GPL207 elsewhere, didn't change the tactility, yet it might be better for longevity, since the friction is low on the leafs
2) Tested GPL205 with 80g activation rated MK springs, the tactility is slightly lower than their 60-62g springs, the spring itself is similar in coils, it's high coiled so the travel seems homogenous, the resulting switch was nice

My conclusion is that the spring weight/behaviour determines the tactility

Other than this, all combinations I tried resulted in switches that would probably be very enjoyable on an actual keyboard, each of them was unique, since I'm looking for "fullness" when typing, I might go with GPL207 + 80g/MK or Gray-Spring - so - I couldn't come to a conclusive decision :)

Probably GPL205 + 80g/MK - to be on the safe side and don't change things too much, GPL207+Gray-Spring would be a huge leap, probably better to save that experience to the next next keyboard

[bmilcs]

I can finally join the club.

KUL ES-87, GPL 205/Victorinox, springs, stems and sliders. I clipped and lubed stabs, and swapped out stock clear springs with 78g SPRiTs.

My perspective is going to be skewed. I have been using a Pok3r w/ stock clears and I definitely like those springs more than these 78gs. Also, my Pok3r has Vortex PBT and my KUL has stock, lousy ABS.

As far as how the switch feels... it's very nice for typing. I enjoy how smooth the keys feel but as others have pointed out, I think there has been a reduction in tactility. Also, keys feel less snappy. I notice that keys back a bit slower than stock springs but that may be mostly due to the spring used so it's hard to say. I may have used too much lube, but I really didn't use an excessive amount.

I am considering modding my Pok3r but if I do, I need to use less and lower the viscosity. The Krytox 205 is thick and may be adding to the less snappy feeling.

I think I understand why people use lighter springs for these ergo clears. I bet 62/65 is really nice. I usually come close to bottoming out on stock clears but on these lubed switches, I feel more like floating on each press.

Edit: Just going from one keyboard to the other, I definitely think it's the spring. I am afraid of putting my KUL through anymore abuse but I definitely would prefer stock clear springs.

[KHAANNN]

I can finally join the club.

KUL ES-87, GPL 205/Victorinox, springs, stems and sliders. I clipped and lubed stabs, and swapped out stock clear springs with 78g SPRiTs.

My perspective is going to be skewed. I have been using a Pok3r w/ stock clears and I definitely like those springs more than these 78gs. Also, my Pok3r has Vortex PBT and my KUL has stock, lousy ABS.

As far as how the switch feels... it's very nice for typing. I enjoy how smooth the keys feel but as others have pointed out, I think there has been a reduction in tactility. Also, keys feel less snappy. I notice that keys back a bit slower than stock springs but that may be mostly due to the spring used so it's hard to say. I may have used too much lube, but I really didn't use an excessive amount.

I am considering modding my Pok3r but if I do, I need to use less and lower the viscosity. The Krytox 205 is thick and may be adding to the less snappy feeling.

I think I understand why people use lighter springs for these ergo clears. I bet 62/65 is really nice. I usually come close to bottoming out on stock clears but on these lubed switches, I feel more like floating on each press.

Edit: Just going from one keyboard to the other, I definitely think it's the spring. I am afraid of putting my KUL through anymore abuse but I definitely would prefer stock clear springs.

Indeed the spring determines most of the response

The 78g sprit spring should be lighter than stock clear springs, I personally hate light springs, they don't feel good to me, they are also risky lube-wise

Try these springs, they are by far the best springs I've tested and I've tested 10's: https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1184

Don't let the 62g rating fool you, it's an activation rating, in reality they are 100+ when lubed - the same mix you used should produce a better result with these springs, but don't take my word for it, definitely try and find your optimal spring

I'm currently using the 80g of MK springs, same spring dynamic, it's a high coiled and long spring, much longer than MX springs, feels better to me (both 60g, 62g, and 80g, whereas their 67g were similar to stock clear springs in terms of behaviour)