Author Topic: Comparison of Topre with alternatives (Niz Plum, BTL, BKE, Qtronics)  (Read 6398 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline daneb

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 23
I have just received my first Topre board (Realforce R2TL Variable). First impression, it was "meh" experience ("is it all?"), but after several hours of writing it became "wow" experience ("it is all!"). I do not want to write another topre review, but compare it with alternatives - it can be interesting for those considering topre and/or these alternatives:

- Niz plum electrocapacitive keyboard (produced with 30g or 45g domes). I have 30g model and have also bought additional South Korean rubber dome sheets 45g and 55g - so I tested all three versions. I have also tested including additional springs which are part of keyboard shipment, however I did not find these springs (which are added under keycaps) to be any good - the characteristic changes to clearly linear with 30g domes (I think they reduce the shape of "logaritmic-like" force-curve of 30g original domes) or they reduce subjective feeling of tactility (with 45/55G domes). That is why I compare 30/45/55g variants without those springs. I also tried BKE Redux domes (ultralight and light version) in this keyboard.

- Rubber dome keyboards - especially BTL (I have E5XKBM10140) and Qtronics (Scorp 104), both reviewed favorably by Chyrosran and others as for tactility. They are often described as "cheap topre alternative" as for feeling. And I would also add Keytronic KT800 (NIB condition - I believe there is a big influence of keyboard use on rubber dome condition, so even less "popular" brands in new condition can be very good. E.g. this Keytronic is one of my favourite light-tactile keyboards.)

MY COMPARISON IS:
Tactility: from lowest to highest: Niz Plum 30g (linear) < Niz Plum 45 g =~ Niz Plum with BKE ultralight redux domes < Keytronic KT800 < Topre Variable < Niz Plum 55g < BTL =~ Niz Plum with BKE light Redux domes < Qtronics (Scorp)* (see note below)

Actuation Force from lowest to highest: Niz Plum 30g < Qtronics < Niz Plum 45g =~ Keytronic =~ Niz Plum with BKE ultralight redux domes < Topre Variable < Niz Plum 55g < BTL =~ Niz Plum with BKE light Redux domes

Note:
- 1) I compare 45g keys (majority of keys) on Topre Realforce Variable keyboard. I would say that actuation force of topre 45g is slightly higher than Niz Plum 45g.
- 2) Both tactility and actuation force correlate together highly. The higher tactility, the higher actuation force (which is logical due to rubber dome/dome construction). The only exception is Qtronics Scorp keyboard, which has the highest tactility of all, but is also pretty light (so some users can even consider the keyboard as not highly tactile - due to lightness). It also has quite wobbly keys.

My conclusion
It is not true that these keyboard are so close. I have read some assertion that they are "80%" similar. I would not say so. It is true that if you hate one of these keyboards, you will probably not like the other. But I do not think they can substitute each other. Each type is highly specific with something. Topre is excellent, but it is not panacea and I will continue to use all above mentioned alternatives. For me, I will especially use Topre, Keytronic and Niz Plum 30g and 55g:
- Topre: is just positively different in feeling (hardly to describe) compared with alternatives, it goes above just tactility/act. force
- Keytronic - I really prefer it when I am in mood for light tactility with cushioned (not mushy) feeling. Also, this Keytronic has the most round tactility of all mentioned keyboards (except linear niz plum 30g of course). Qtronics Scorp has the most "spiry" tactility and together with greater wobblines is not my favorite (but I use it occasionally...). BTL has too high tactility for me and thus disrupts uniform, fluent feeling of continuous typing. But sometimes (although rarely) it is exactly what I want.
- Niz Plum - especially 30g (absolutely light, great for relaxation, when I am not full of energy) and 55g (nice precise tactility but still not too much weight for me). (Niz Plum with 45g South Korean dome did not persuade me much, it is just without character.)
« Last Edit: Sat, 29 June 2019, 02:54:17 by daneb »

Offline tex_live_utility

  • Posts: 990
  • MX brown apologist
    • twitch.tv/salt_rock_lamp
Re: Comparison of Topre with alternatives (Niz Plum, BTL, BKE, Qtronics)
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 28 June 2019, 07:13:36 »
Thanks for the comprehensive review!

Interesting that BKE feels less tactile in a Niz than in Topre.

Have you ever swapped Niz and Topre domes? Someone put Realforce variable domes in a Niz 87 at a meetup, I really liked it.
Discord: salt rock lamp#0679 | Reddit: /u/nerdponx | Deskthority: autoload -Uz | Keebtalk: salt_rock_lamp
Twitch: salt_rock_lamp | YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd7YXZjilUutJ6ShZWrvQtg | Instagram: @salt_rock_keyboards


Offline swedishpiehole

  • Posts: 89
Re: Comparison of Topre with alternatives (Niz Plum, BTL, BKE, Qtronics)
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 28 June 2019, 12:15:37 »
I have just received my first Topre board (Realforce R2TL Variable). First impression, it was "meh" experience ("is it all?"), but after several hours of writing it became "wow" experience ("it is all!"). I do not want to write another topre review, but compare it with alternatives - it can be interesting for those considering topre and/or these alternatives:

- Niz plum electrocapacitive keyboard (produced with 30g or 45g domes). I have 30g model and have also bought additional South Korean rubber dome sheets 45g and 55g - so I tested all three versions. I have also tested including additional springs which are part of keyboard shipment, however I did not find these springs (which are added under keycaps) to be any good - the characteristic changes to clearly linear with 30g domes (I think they reduce the shape of "logaritmic-like" force-curve of 30g original domes) or they reduce subjective feeling of tactility (with 45/55G domes). That is why I compare 30/45/55g variants without those springs.

- Rubber dome keyboards - especially BTL (I have E5XKBM10140) and Qtronics (Scorp 104), both reviewed favorably by Chyrosran and others as for tactility. They are often described as "cheap topre alternative" as for feeling. And I would also add Keytronic KT800 (NIB condition - I believe there is a big influence of keyboard use on rubber dome condition, so even less "popular" brands in new condition can be very good. E.g. this Keytronic is one of my favourite light-tactile keyboards.)

MY COMPARISON IS:
Tactility: Niz Plum 30g (linear) < Niz Plum 45 g =~ Niz Plum with BKE ultralight redux domes < Keytronic KT800 < Topre Variable < Niz Plum 55g < BTL =~ Niz Plum with BKE light Redux domes < Qtronics (Scorp)* (see note below)

Actuation Force Niz Plum 30g < Qtronics < Niz Plum 45g =~ Keytronic =~ Niz Plum with BKE ultralight redux domes < Topre Variable < Niz Plum 55g < BTL =~ Niz Plum with BKE light Redux domes

Note:
- 1) I compare 45g keys (majority of keys) on Topre Realforce Variable keyboard. I would say that actuation force of topre 45g is slightly higher than Niz Plum 45g.
- 2) Both tactility and actuation force correlate together highly. The higher tactility, the higher actuation force (which is logical due to rubber dome/dome construction). The only exception is Qtronics Scorp keyboard, which has the highest tactility of all, but is also pretty light (so some users can even consider the keyboard as not highly tactile - due to lightness). It also has quite wobbly keys.

My conclusion
It is not true that these keyboard are so close. I have read some assertion that they are "80%" similar. I would not say so. It is true that if you hate one of these keyboards, you will probably not like the other. But I do not think they can substitute each other. Each type is highly specific with something. Topre is excellent, but it is not panacea and I will continue to use all above mentioned alternatives. For me, I will especially use Topre, Keytronic and Niz Plum 30g and 55g:
- Topre: is just positively different in feeling (hardly to describe) compared with alternatives, it goes above just tactility/act. force
- Keytronic - I really prefer it when I am in mood for light tactility with cushioned (not mushy) feeling. Also, this Keytronic has the most round tactility of all mentioned keyboards (except linear niz plum 30g of course). Qtronics Scorp has the most "spiry" tactility and together with greater wobblines is not my favorite (but I use it occasionally...). BTL has too high tactility for me and thus disrupts uniform, fluent feeling of continuous typing. But sometimes (although rarely) it is exactly what I want.
- Niz Plum - especially 30g (absolutely light, great for relaxation, when I am not full of energy) and 55g (nice precise tactility but still not too much weight for me). (Niz Plum with 45g South Korean dome did not persuade me much, it is just without character.)

I'm confused by your ratings. For me "<" means less than. So this means Niz Plum is your least favorite in both categories?

Offline nguyenhimself

  • Posts: 672
Re: Comparison of Topre with alternatives (Niz Plum, BTL, BKE, Qtronics)
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 28 June 2019, 12:21:19 »
Honestly it was very simple for me: I like the types of tactility and soft feeling of Topre. The others feel different and not what I want.

Trying out the BKE domes was how I discovered what it means to be "too tactile". Yikes.

Offline swedishpiehole

  • Posts: 89
Re: Comparison of Topre with alternatives (Niz Plum, BTL, BKE, Qtronics)
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 28 June 2019, 13:03:31 »
Honestly it was very simple for me: I like the types of tactility and soft feeling of Topre. The others feel different and not what I want.

Trying out the BKE domes was how I discovered what it means to be "too tactile". Yikes.

Did you try ultralights? On my HHKB they feel slightly lighter than stock but way snappier, in a good way. They are a little louder, though, even with Silence-X rings.

Offline daneb

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 23
Re: Comparison of Topre with alternatives (Niz Plum, BTL, BKE, Qtronics)
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 29 June 2019, 02:27:51 »

I'm confused by your ratings. For me "<" means less than. So this means Niz Plum is your least favorite in both categories?

No, it is objective comparison (amount of tactility, amount of actuation force), from lowest to highest.

As for my subjective preference, I write about it in the end (in "Conclusion") - I like light switches, so Niz Plum 30g is my favorite.

Offline daneb

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 23
Re: Comparison of Topre with alternatives (Niz Plum, BTL, BKE, Qtronics)
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 29 June 2019, 02:32:22 »
Interesting that BKE feels less tactile in a Niz than in Topre.

I am not sure I understand your statement correctly - I tried BKE (light, ultralight) domes only in Niz. Is it your experience - you tried it in both?

Have you ever swapped Niz and Topre domes? Someone put Realforce variable domes in a Niz 87 at a meetup, I really liked it.

That is interesting idea and it did not occur to me it is possible. I might try it.

Offline Sup

  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Posts: 1336
  • Doing university was a mistake
Re: Comparison of Topre with alternatives (Niz Plum, BTL, BKE, Qtronics)
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 29 June 2019, 10:26:04 »
Honestly it was very simple for me: I like the types of tactility and soft feeling of Topre. The others feel different and not what I want.

Trying out the BKE domes was how I discovered what it means to be "too tactile". Yikes.

Did you try ultralights? On my HHKB they feel slightly lighter than stock but way snappier, in a good way. They are a little louder, though, even with Silence-X rings.

BKE is like a like light switch nothing in between if you get what i mean. There is something as to tactile.
current
Filco Zero -  NOS Yellow Alps | Canoe R1 Gateron Red | AEK II JP Cream dampend |Filco Majestouch 2 Tex case Gateron Yellow | HHKB Pro 1 2003 Rev AO Serial 000171 | HHKB Pro 1 2003 Rev A1s|DZ60 OG Panda's with Fei spring and stem. | Sentraq S65_Plus OG Invyr Panda's | A17 Gateron Black TX 65G 3204 | Lubrigrante Wildcard Cherry MX silent blacks 3204 58.5G Springs | Rukia Everglide Tourmaline Blue 58.5G Springs | MGA Standard Greetech brown |
Coming soon
Rest in peace Billy Herrington(William Glen Harold Herrington) 1969-2018
Rest in peace Byron Daniel 1989-2020