[IC] Tr. - wireless split keyboard with mouse stick module (add more pics)

[nine-fox]

QMK?

QMK will be awesome!!!

No. QMK works not so well in split keyboard design. Please take a look at the page I updated. Thanks

[nine-fox]

Could you add split ergo as a possible layout? Something like this https://keeb.io/products/iris-keyboard-split-ergonomic-keyboard

An ergo split with USB C and bluetooth (and hopefully QMK as others have mentioned) would be an instant buy 

Well, to myself, I tried ergo layout and ..... no any luck, I can not even type using this layout. My previous prototype is a wireless planck. I used one day, and then throw it...that's really bad experience (just for me I guess)

As a result, I determined to make one that normal people(eg, my wife) can use - not just for myself

Hope you can understand

[nine-fox]

Looks like a dream come true for me, I am in

Thanks for your interest! IC form is online. Please submit if you are interested. nine-fox.com/tr

[nine-fox]

amazeballs.....

Thanks for your interest! IC form is online. Please submit if you are interested. nine-fox.com/tr

[nine-fox]

owo

Thanks for your interest! IC form is online. Please submit if you are interested. nine-fox.com/tr

[nine-fox]

This is pretty awesome.

Thanks for your interest! IC form is online. Please submit if you are interested. nine-fox.com/tr

[nine-fox]

This pretty much looks like a dream come through for me as it's the exact type of keyboard I've been looking for. So I'm definitely down!

Does it have ISO support? I would probably get one regardless, but that would be a big plus for me.

Thanks for your interest! IC form is online. Please submit if you are interested. nine-fox.com/tr

[nine-fox]

To be completely honest I don't really get how the buy will be structured and what each option entails but the concept is great. I'm only interested in the high-profile case + the barebones halves that go inside it, the mouse etc is irrelevant to me, but I do really like the way this looks.

Good job!

Thanks for your reply.

For the structure, I uploaded more pics, you can take a look

BTW, IC form is online. Please submit if you are interested. nine-fox.com/tr

[nine-fox]

Does the PCB support plate mounted switches?

You said that there are no color options, but renders are in silver, black and gray. So are those colors going to be available?

Ah, thanks for your asking. Actually, I learned how to render just a few weeks ago, not so familiar with it. The ALU material is actually black in all render environment. However, due to lights angle and sun light color(different time will cause different sun light color), it looks different.

I will learn how to make them(color) consistent in the future.

[nine-fox]

Does the PCB support plate mounted switches?

You said that there are no color options, but renders are in silver, black and gray. So are those colors going to be available?

Black or gray will be supported in R1. I will decide once prototype is done.

[nine-fox]

Ok take my money, this is just awesome. Any idea on the prices for each module? (a bare range)

Some suggestions:
- QMK
- An alu bottom version would be good too, many would be interested and you know an alu bottom price is kinda similar and sometimes lower than acrylic (also easier to do)
- Add brass somewhere, weight/plate (especially plate).  Brass is the reason i buy keebs, everyone likes brass.

Thanks for your interests! IC form is online. Please submit if you are interested. nine-fox.com/tr

- QMK
 I explained it in the topic, please take a look
- An alu bottom version would be good too, many would be interested and you know an alu bottom price is kinda similar and sometimes lower than acrylic (also easier to do)
Actually, ALU bottom is totally a different design. How to place the ANT? How about collision during absorbing? It needs lots of work and will increase price also. At the this stage, what I thought is focus on the current design, as simple as possible, even it is so complex already
- Add brass somewhere, weight/plate (especially plate).  Brass is the reason i buy keebs, everyone likes brass.
Probably in R2, its in plan :-)

[nine-fox]

Woah!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for your interest! IC form is online. Please submit if you are interested. nine-fox.com/tr

[nine-fox]

Thanks for your questions!

Any chance of a high profile case for the regular split 65%
 - not for this version. That's totally a different design :-)
Any chance of a non-hot-swap PCB?
 - Hmm....I guess not....why do you need it?
Any chance of non-Costar stabilizers?
 - No. I like cherry stab actually. However, the mother and child structure means costar stab is a must.

Oh alright thank you!
Even plate-mount Cherry stabilizers wouldn't be able to work with the mother and child structure of your board?
And as for a solderable PCB, it's just a personal preference.
Thanks again

Thanks for your questions. Actually, I designed serveral LEDs on space area. As a result, there are no space left in that space between plate and pcb :-(

[nine-fox]

Love the design! It's definitely a nice break from the normal 60%.

Thanks. I didn't like 60% actually :-(

68 is the min layout I can use~

[HomerSp]

Signed up for two base kits + expansion kits - really excited!

Out of curiosity, are these renders all just concept art, or do you actually have the PCB printed and working?

[Anakey]

The renders and the design work that went into this is stunning, however it appears to be a choice of form over funtion like the above comment with the LEDS limiting the stabilisers that can be used. It may seem a small point however considering the $500+ that this is going to cost to be limited to the costar stabs just because of some LEDs seems a very short sighted view for such a premium board. Whilst ultimately a GB board is designed by the one running the GB for ones self there also needs to be a certain amount of give to allow the GB to function to recoup the losses through prototyping which for such a complex board will probably be quite high. Something else that i do not see is any batteries for the wireless communication so this board would need both halves plugged in using cables so then each half could just exist as separate keyboards without bluetooth at all?

[nine-fox]

Signed up for two base kits + expansion kits - really excited!

Out of curiosity, are these renders all just concept art, or do you actually have the PCB printed and working?

Pcb work is done 80%. Case work is done 90%, already sent to factory yesterday, thats why I can render it. Some design will be changed according to factory's opinion. So would it answer your question?

BTW, my previous pcb desgin works well, take a look at the following links. The same MCU will be used in Tr.

https://www.zfrontier.com/post/detail/11974

Thanks for your interest!

[Visionaire]

Might have been asked before, but will this support using only one side at a time? Like, could I use the left side only and not have the right one on my desk at all?

[SomePunkassKid]

What's the difference between the "base kit + expansion kit + mouse kit" vs the "all kits"?

I went ahead and put all kits for the IC, but I thought the only accessories were the child board with mouse add-on.

[Vigrith]

Thanks for your reply.

For the structure, I uploaded more pics, you can take a look

BTW, IC form is online. Please submit if you are interested. nine-fox.com/tr

The new pictures and explanations are extremely informative and I think I fully understand how it all works now - very ingenious, well done, I look forward to participating if the price is reasonable!

[Xiaojun27]

really lovely design and the functionality are quite considerate for daily keyboard users~
It would be nice if you could upload the layout of the keyboard that I would like to check my spare keycaps(mainly the spacebar, 3u*2 ?)
really looking forward to this group buy

[nine-fox]

really lovely design and the functionality are quite considerate for daily keyboard users~
It would be nice if you could upload the layout of the keyboard that I would like to check my spare keycaps(mainly the spacebar, 3u*2 ?)
really looking forward to this group buy

Thank you buddy! 

The layout is added in description, thanks for pointing it out!

[nine-fox]

Thanks for your reply.

For the structure, I uploaded more pics, you can take a look

BTW, IC form is online. Please submit if you are interested. nine-fox.com/tr

The new pictures and explanations are extremely informative and I think I fully understand how it all works now - very ingenious, well done, I look forward to participating if the price is reasonable!

Thanks very much! I will try my best to keep the price as low as possible

[nine-fox]

What's the difference between the "base kit + expansion kit + mouse kit" vs the "all kits"?

I went ahead and put all kits for the IC, but I thought the only accessories were the child board with mouse add-on.

Thanks for your interest.
Well, the all kits means everything provided in the pic(no keycaps, switches, costar anyway): https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=99719.0;attach=214368;image

while "base kit + expansion kit + mouse kit" means footer and hand rest are not covered

[nine-fox]

Might have been asked before, but will this support using only one side at a time? Like, could I use the left side only and not have the right one on my desk at all?

I have updated some pics to describe how it works, please take a look.

Yes, only one side is ok. However, it will continue advertising forever(that is, to find another hand part). In this way, the battery costs a bit high. (Well, of course no worries if you use USB mode)

Hope it can explain

[overflow]

  this is awesome.
i have always wanted split keyboard that support wireless function like this. I ve waited ve.a for about a year, but i just changed my mind after i saw it. I hope that its not gonna be over over-priced.
i want to see any video that shows how does this modular feature works.

[nine-fox]

The renders and the design work that went into this is stunning, however it appears to be a choice of form over funtion like the above comment with the LEDS limiting the stabilisers that can be used. It may seem a small point however considering the $500+ that this is going to cost to be limited to the costar stabs just because of some LEDs seems a very short sighted view for such a premium board. Whilst ultimately a GB board is designed by the one running the GB for ones self there also needs to be a certain amount of give to allow the GB to function to recoup the losses through prototyping which for such a complex board will probably be quite high. Something else that i do not see is any batteries for the wireless communication so this board would need both halves plugged in using cables so then each half could just exist as separate keyboards without bluetooth at all?

Thanks for your reply! for your questions:
1) I forgot to add batteries in previous pic. Already updated, please take a look. Thanks for pointing it out.

Also, the bluetooth connection is always established between the right and left hand.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=99719.0;attach=214720;image

2) For stabiliser, let me think about it. Probably an investigation/survey is needed.

[nine-fox]

this is awesome.
i have always wanted split keyboard that support wireless function like this. I ve waited ve.a for about a year, but i just changed my mind after i saw it. I hope that its not gonna be over over-priced.
i want to see any video that shows how does this modular feature works.

Thanks for your interests! Sure, I will post video/images once prototype is done :-)

BTW, please submit the IC so that I can take it into account. Thanks.

[Anakey]

The renders and the design work that went into this is stunning, however it appears to be a choice of form over funtion like the above comment with the LEDS limiting the stabilisers that can be used. It may seem a small point however considering the $500+ that this is going to cost to be limited to the costar stabs just because of some LEDs seems a very short sighted view for such a premium board. Whilst ultimately a GB board is designed by the one running the GB for ones self there also needs to be a certain amount of give to allow the GB to function to recoup the losses through prototyping which for such a complex board will probably be quite high. Something else that i do not see is any batteries for the wireless communication so this board would need both halves plugged in using cables so then each half could just exist as separate keyboards without bluetooth at all?

Thanks for your reply! for your questions:
1) I forgot to add batteries in previous pic. Already updated, please take a look. Thanks for pointing it out.

Also, the bluetooth connection is always established between the right and left hand.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=99719.0;attach=214720;image

2) For stabiliser, let me think about it. Probably an investigation/survey is needed.

Thankyou for the reply to my questions, getting the 3u keycaps for the spacebars would be quite a challenge Hopefully 2.75u keys could still be used as those are more standard then the 3u. 

[nine-fox]

The renders and the design work that went into this is stunning, however it appears to be a choice of form over funtion like the above comment with the LEDS limiting the stabilisers that can be used. It may seem a small point however considering the $500+ that this is going to cost to be limited to the costar stabs just because of some LEDs seems a very short sighted view for such a premium board. Whilst ultimately a GB board is designed by the one running the GB for ones self there also needs to be a certain amount of give to allow the GB to function to recoup the losses through prototyping which for such a complex board will probably be quite high. Something else that i do not see is any batteries for the wireless communication so this board would need both halves plugged in using cables so then each half could just exist as separate keyboards without bluetooth at all?

Thanks for your reply! for your questions:
1) I forgot to add batteries in previous pic. Already updated, please take a look. Thanks for pointing it out.

Also, the bluetooth connection is always established between the right and left hand.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=99719.0;attach=214720;image

2) For stabiliser, let me think about it. Probably an investigation/survey is needed.

Thankyou for the reply to my questions, getting the 3u keycaps for the spacebars would be quite a challenge Hopefully 2.75u keys could still be used as those are more standard then the 3u.

Even 2.75 is standard, 2.75 spacebar is really rare. If there is 'Shift' word on the keycap, that would be ugly. In contrast, minila spacebar and minila kit is quite common than 2.75 spacebar, its common for cherry profile and sa profile. Take a look at carbon for example. The drawback is that, gmk do not have 3u. Still not sure why gmk did not provide.

So finally, I choose 3u as spacebar

[Vigrith]

So finally, I choose 3u as spacebar

I hadn't noticed that and that kinda worries me to be honest, whilst probably not a deal breaker for me because I have some Cherry PBT sets that do have 3u space bars, the vast majority of the more hardcore enthusiasts (which I'd say is the target audience for a board such as this) use GMK almost exclusively - not being able to outfit the board with that kind of sit is quite worrying, add that to the fact costar stabs are required and that's quite a few specific things that need to be met to be able to build and use this board.

As said, not a huge deal for me, but I can see it being a big hurdle for you moving forward. Not sure if that's something you'd like to consider, but I figured I'd bring it up regardless.

[Anakey]

The renders and the design work that went into this is stunning, however it appears to be a choice of form over funtion like the above comment with the LEDS limiting the stabilisers that can be used. It may seem a small point however considering the $500+ that this is going to cost to be limited to the costar stabs just because of some LEDs seems a very short sighted view for such a premium board. Whilst ultimately a GB board is designed by the one running the GB for ones self there also needs to be a certain amount of give to allow the GB to function to recoup the losses through prototyping which for such a complex board will probably be quite high. Something else that i do not see is any batteries for the wireless communication so this board would need both halves plugged in using cables so then each half could just exist as separate keyboards without bluetooth at all?

Thanks for your reply! for your questions:
1) I forgot to add batteries in previous pic. Already updated, please take a look. Thanks for pointing it out.

Also, the bluetooth connection is always established between the right and left hand.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=99719.0;attach=214720;image

2) For stabiliser, let me think about it. Probably an investigation/survey is needed.

Thankyou for the reply to my questions, getting the 3u keycaps for the spacebars would be quite a challenge Hopefully 2.75u keys could still be used as those are more standard then the 3u.

Even 2.75 is standard, 2.75 spacebar is really rare. If there is 'Shift' word on the keycap, that would be ugly. In contrast, minila spacebar and minila kit is quite common than 2.75 spacebar, its common for cherry profile and sa profile. Take a look at carbon for example. The drawback is that, gmk do not have 3u. Still not sure why gmk did not provide.

So finally, I choose 3u as spacebar

2.75u spacebars are often included in almost every kit due to split 2.25u 1u 2.75u being common mainly due to the many small form factor boards whereas hardly any kits do 3u spacebars you point out only Carbon taht is big enough to fit every keycap in most other sets will not have a 3u spacebar especially if it is only for a single board.

[_ODIN_]

interested! Can you add stepped caps lock and ISO support?

[HomerSp]

Thank you for the detailed information, I really appreciate all of the work you have put into this so far. Hoping it won't be that long until you have the prototype ready 

Are you going to open source the firmware once it's done? Or maybe you haven't decided yet?

[_ODIN_]

submitted the form

[KaosJ]

Wait i see  a huge problem, why you are using costar stabilizers? Please can you just use PCB mount cherry-style stabilizers? 
The board is hotswappable anyway, if something goes wrong with stabilizers you just need to remove the switches and fix the stabs.

Honestly costars turns me off.

[RacerK1]

Please include an option for split backspace. Also, more options for the bottom row would be good. 3u spacebars look nice, but may split keyboard users have key sets with 2.25 and 2.75 and compatibility with those sets would be appreciated.

[Anaconda]

I would personally prefer a normal solderable pcb. Also cherry stabs are needed. Also there is an option to use it wired? that is also important imo.

[tex_live_utility]

+1 for:

• Tenting option in split mode
• Split backspace
• Ability to use it wired

Frankly I don't care much about Costar stabs but I can see why people strongly prefer Cherry. As long as it's not Cherry plate-mount I'm OK.

[phongnh]

Any plan to support ortholinear layout?

[freespam]

Is the mouse stick the same as a trackpoint?  And can you use FN with it to scroll?

Do you have any idea how long would the batteries last?

[nine-fox]

Is the mouse stick the same as a trackpoint?  And can you use FN with it to scroll?

Do you have any idea how long would the batteries last?

Well, the mouse module is from a Thinkpad which is not part of Tr. kit. Who buy it will try to find one from old Thinkpad keyboard -- Thats is official sound, due to legal issues. (Trackpoint module is Lenovo product I can not use it/resell it)

But personally, I will provide guides to find one :-)  (DIY way, you know)

About FN and scroll function, it is a must to support, because I am a deep user of trackpoint.

For batteries, I will post the data once prototype is done.

[nine-fox]

Any plan to support ortholinear layout?

Sorry. NO.

Personally(just to me), ortholinear layout experience is really bad and I won't do it for my whole life ---- because I have already created a wireless split planck, and I used it just one day, one day! And then throw it away... 

No offence, this is just my personal experience, not for all of people.

[nine-fox]

+1 for:

• Tenting option in split mode
• Split backspace
• Ability to use it wired

Frankly I don't care much about Costar stabs but I can see why people strongly prefer Cherry. As long as it's not Cherry plate-mount I'm OK.

thanks for your asking!
- Tenting option
Well, the price will be higher for all kits if I did it. I thought about it. However, it will not be covered in R1. Actually, its really easy. I will provide a STL/STEP file and you can 3d print it. Then it would fulfill your requirement. Is that sounds ok?
-Split backspace
This is ISO support too. However, if backspace split is used, hot-swap feature will be removed. One cannot serve God man Mammon
-Ability to use it wired
Base+Extra(the dock) kits will be used only as wired mode

[nine-fox]

I would personally prefer a normal solderable pcb. Also cherry stabs are needed. Also there is an option to use it wired? that is also important imo.

Thanks for your asking.

For wire mode, please see the structure pics I attached. Extra kit(dock) only works in wire mode. Base kit support wireless mode and wired mode.

Unfortunately, Cherry stab is not planned in R1. It will increase the price - at least 50~100$. I guess it is not acceptable. Also, the base kit needs lots of rework. I also need to do time estimate - no one wants it 43 years later, right?

For solderable pcb, well, it can be achievable. You can just use electric soldering iron to disconnect the Kailh hot-swap module and then connect the new switch. That's easy

[nine-fox]

Please include an option for split backspace. Also, more options for the bottom row would be good. 3u spacebars look nice, but may split keyboard users have key sets with 2.25 and 2.75 and compatibility with those sets would be appreciated.

Hot-swap and compatible layout can not both exist. If you choose compatible layout, hot-swap feature will be removed.

[nine-fox]

Wait i see  a huge problem, why you are using costar stabilizers? Please can you just use PCB mount cherry-style stabilizers? 
The board is hotswappable anyway, if something goes wrong with stabilizers you just need to remove the switches and fix the stabs.

Honestly costars turns me off.

Thanks for your asking. Due to high cost, costar is only for now.

Technically, supporting other stabs can be done, but the price will go higher.

Another point is, costar is perfect for base kit - take whitefox/nightfox for example, it looks better than cherry stab when you are using a case like this. Cherry stab needs a big hole in plate, which is ugly

[nine-fox]

submitted the form

Thanks for your support!

[nine-fox]

Thank you for the detailed information, I really appreciate all of the work you have put into this so far. Hoping it won't be that long until you have the prototype ready 

Are you going to open source the firmware once it's done? Or maybe you haven't decided yet?

The meaning of opening source is that, others can do enhancement or add new features into it. Unfortunately, I doubt that, because the firmware is much complex than any one in the market. Take mitosis for example, lots of people only wants to use it, instead of enhancing it. Let's split is great but its too simple, comparing to dual mode(wireless and usb). Not to mention bluetooth 5, it needs professional view.

So, I can even imagine that, its still me(only me) who did most of the work, plus the open source community maintenance, which is another burden. Also, probably comes with other dispute, take China faked bface for example.

I am one man team, not because I want to be. Just because I can not find other teammates who can dedicate to focus on firmware coding/designing. I always comes with high demand. Even simple tiny things, I want it to be perfect - none can do it right now.

As a result, I won't open source it till the situation is changed. Right now I only want to focus on development till it is released - it needs some huge work

[Pluto19]

Any chance of non-Costar stabilizers?
 - No. I like cherry stab actually. However, the mother and child structure means costar stab is a must.

Unfortunately, Cherry stab is not planned in R1. It will increase the price - at least 50~100$. I guess it is not acceptable.

Thanks for your asking. Due to high cost, costar is only for now.

Technically, supporting other stabs can be done, but the price will go higher.

Another point is, costar is perfect for base kit - take whitefox/nightfox for example, it looks better than cherry stab when you are using a case like this. Cherry stab needs a big hole in plate, which is ugly

Wait. So, is the lack of support for Cherry-style stabilizers due to the mother-and-child design as you originally answered, manufacturing cost restraints, or aesthetics? Or is it some combination of all three and then some?

Edit: Also just an FYI ~ you can click the Multi-Quote feature and then click Reply for multiple and/or similar questions.