[IC] aluminum ergodox case?

[zed]

I really hope this actually happens. Even if the price is up to $60-$65. That is still really cheap.

[clickclack123]

Layered cases are easier to design and produce.  2-piece CNC cases would be much better, it would be also much more expensive.  We also don't have anyone with the skills to design it *and* the management skills to bring it to fruition.   

czarek has already designed a cnc case, is selling them in PVC, and is working on making it in aluminum. I think the price is expected to be significantly more though.

[AKmalamute]

I think the price is expected to be significantly more though.

Then you've got the whole, mailing a giant hunk of aluminum from poland, issue to worry about. (Or wherever in the EU he is).

Yes, CNC would be cool, but I'm not that flush so, layered it is.

i'm definitely misunderstanding something here.

i read the op again and you mentioned layer; then you also said no screws or bolts?  how does it actually hold together then?

 I'm keeping my GB simple. So you'll have to source M3 screws at your local hardware store. Or use tiny zip-ties. Or baling twine, but the nylon off the 120lbs bales I buy would be way too thick to fit through M3-sized screws.  You could always use tiny C-clamps ... 

 But in order to not do my first GB badly, I'm concentrating on one thing. Layers of lasered metal. The rest is up to you.

yup. only for the first massdrop run. they stopped doing it for subsequent runs as it was sooooo problematic.

Now, I would have been fine about zip-ties (see above) for my own keyboard, but considering the example metal he showed me was to demonstrate to a different customer that his machine could burn bolt holes precisely enough that they could be tapped without drilling, I actually feel pretty good about the company I've come across.

Oh, and Litster! Welcome, and thank you! Your case is beautiful.

 Also it uses Costar stabs. Does someone have the layer-three full-hand .dxf that uses the combined cherry/costar stabs ? I'm not so sure I do.

[zed]

Clickclack, do you have a link to the GB? Or is Czarek just out right selling them?

[Wildcard]

Just submitted the form. I'm pretty interested in seeing how these turn out.

[clickclack123]

Clickclack, do you have a link to the GB? Or is Czarek just out right selling them?

http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/ergodox-pcbs-cases-electronics-and-assembly-services-t6972.html is where I saw it, he also has a thread here on GH. I PM'd him on deskthority to order.

Edit: 100th post! Yay me!

[zed]

Congrats bud!

[tbc]

thanks ak.  i was visualizing you sending us a bunch of clamps and alot of glue lol

[zed]

I wish we had pictures. *hint hint*

[clickclack123]

I don't have a camera that would do great justice, but let me tell you what texture / color it looked like: Google images, "machined aluminum" -- two images on the first page of results are of a lego keyfob, and a pair of dice. That's pretty close to what I saw today.

I'm still finding it slightly hard to visualize what a layered ergodox case would look like made out of this.

[KaLam1ty]

I don't have a camera that would do great justice, but let me tell you what texture / color it looked like: Google images, "machined aluminum" -- two images on the first page of results are of a lego keyfob, and a pair of dice. That's pretty close to what I saw today.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

I'm still finding it slightly hard to visualize what a layered ergodox case would look like made out of this.

Wow, its got a very industrial/concrete texture to it. I'm tempted to jump in on this..

[clickclack123]

I'm in for one at least. The price is hard to believe.   

[AKmalamute]

A couple of comments, not quite updates:
I emailed the project manager last night with some questions like pictures, prices considering we have full hand and classic models, the one request for bead-blasting, and I passed along our current spread-sheet's totals. Haven't heard back but I can drive out there Friday, hopefully get an update on this.

 The more I look at it, the more I waver. Will it work as-is, or will a layer of corkboard be needed to separate the layers and make the sizing all work out? But one thing is certain, and that is I've garnered some interest. Enough interest that I'm pretty sure a GB would be successful, so once I hear from him I'll put a thread up to collect information.

 And yes, those are the pictures that look like the example block. Very industrial, as KaLam1ty points out. I'm probably going to go SS, myself, but I'll probably get a few spares so I can decide after I have SMD work on my PCBs finished.

EDIT Friday, 1/31/14:
Okay this isn't worth double posting for, but I've spoken with the project manager, who says he's been busy, but will respond to my queries.

This much I have heard: they don't do bead blasting. Also, he recommends against it. He did say that, for a finish, they do "DA" to all their aluminum (I think that's a type of sand blasting)

 He asked for a day or two, which I think is business days, so don't expect the GB page to start until Wednesday. Two things I'd like to ask of "the community" ... can someone copy/paste the hybrid stab-holes to the full-hand layer three .dxf file? All I have is Inkscape and I'm afraid I'll misplace the whole switch/stab hole completely.

 The other thing, is I'll need help writing a google form to collect all the information. We'll need a way to distinguish: aluminum, and stainless steel, full-hand vs. classic, and whole case vs. two-layer minamalist. How do you devise a three-dimensional checkbox with numerical dropdowns so that folks can clearly order what they want?

 As always, more when I have it.

[tbc]

what is two layer minimalist?

[AKmalamute]

what is two layer minimalist?

An idea I have. Namely, layer 1 (I guess it's called five but that's silly. You build from the bottom and go up for most construction projects. Anyway, the plate layer that sits on the desk) followed by a pliable, inexpensive and non-conducive material of the buyer's choice (I'm planning, pretty much, on silicone rubber sheets cut to size) followed by the PCB with all it's fixin's, and the plate, layer 3, above which is nothing but keyswitches. And keycaps.

I haven't seen it done precisely, but I was inspired by Swill's "minimalist case design" thread and the 2-layer thing is my answer to that idea.

[Sniping]

Any progress yet?

[AKmalamute]

We've all lost a couple days to a snow & ice storm, so I don't doubt the shop is a bit behind ... but I wrote yesterday, hoping to hear something. Haven't. The project manager is very eager and responsive when I'm physically talking to him, and I never get the impression he thinks our order will be too small for him to bother with ... but maybe it is.

 I'm going to keep trying to get an answer from him though. Either a formal quote I can use to form a GB from, or that he doesn't have time for a single run with thin aluminum. I'll keep you guys apprised either way.

[tbc]

has this been tested to fit?  Sorry if I missed a post earlier, but we're going for 5x1.5mm (7.5mm) right?

http://adereth.github.io/blog/2014/02/12/building-an-ergodox/

according to that post, the massdrop kit is 2x3mm + 2x5mm (total: 21mm)


is it going to fit?

[AKmalamute]

has this been tested to fit?  Sorry if I missed a post earlier, but we're going for 5x1.5mm (7.5mm) right?
[...]
is it going to fit?

I've gotten no comments to date about this. Kinda surprised.

 I've not seen it done, but I'm leaning towards "no" ... but I have a plan, at least for mine. Add "gasket" layers of silicone rubber where needed. Those can be cut by hand with a razor; no real tight tolerances when its just a spacer / dust guard.

 I really want layer three to be the expected 1.5mm ... and it would be simplest if all the rest are the same thickness, although if this goes well (going to drive out there and poke the mgr again) future runs may have just layer three at 16th-inch, and one-eighth inch for all the other layers.

 For now though, perhaps for some this is just a way to stiffen their existing case ... or darken the otherwise clear acrylic with light-blocking aluminum.

[CPTBadAss]

This much I have heard: they don't do bead blasting. Also, he recommends against it. He did say that, for a finish, they do "DA" to all their aluminum (I think that's a type of sand blasting)

DA is dual action sanding I believe.

I'm still unsure as to how your design is going to work or look like but from what it sounds like, the case is going to be like a GON Skinny or a bent plate design. Or something thin.

It looks like it's going to be like my Epsilon case except there's going to be a layer of rubber/plastic inbetween, after I read a little more. So my explanation below stands.

Bead blasting introduces a lot of heat which might warp a thin aluminum piece.

I don't know what a DA finish would look like. But my Epsilon case had a brushed finish which was lovely.

[AKmalamute]

OK I spoke to the project manager today -- it seems there's still communication difficulties but he's promised to look at the files today and get a proper quote done today.

 As there's nothing to take picture of, and a prototype would cost as much as three completed cases, I'm going to hold off in the hopes there will be some adventuresome types, and pictures can wait 'til a proposed "round two"

 The aluminum will be 6061, the stainless steel will be 304, and all of it in 16 gauge, so yes as TBC's link shows, a little too thin all on its own -- standoffs or gaskets will complete the process.

 I still can't find the "full hand" layer 3 (keyswitch plate) with hybrid costar / cherry stab holes. For those who are interested in the full-hand design, how badly do you want the hybrid cutouts (or will costar stabs suit you) ? Can someone qualified for the job copy/paste the hybrid cutouts for me ... otherwise I'll go with what I found, and thus the stabs will be different between full-hand and classic.

 More, when I have it (which should be soon)

[clickclack123]

Good news, I hope it all works out. That guy's communication seems pretty bad though, from my experience off ebay and forums, when somebody's communication is bad it's not really a good sign for the quality of everything else and usually ends up pissing me off. On the other hand, bad communication can sometimes mean bargains to be had. Fingers firmly crossed.

[tbc]

I'm totally okay with a prototyping round 1.  don't have a camera, so I won't be able to help document fix 'bugs' though.

i'm not picky about costar vs cherry, but I thought costar for BOTH thumbkeys per side was incompatible....I might have completely misunderstood. so if all 4 keys can be costared with dsa caps, I'm happy.

[JayKthnx]

I'd rock a prototype for you. Feel free to pm me if you'd like. I'm interested in trying a minimal case as well, so this could end up being a fun little adventure.

[AKmalamute]

okay, finally. Email incoming I hope, but I have a firm, real number for the classic case is 16ga 6061 aluminum.
$32.25 / each.

Not as cheap as I'd initially hoped but it's at least not too-good-to-be-true cheap. Classic case in stainless steel is supposed to be "in the forty to fifty something range" -- real number should be incoming or if not I guess I drive back out there Friday.

At work, no time to say more.

[skcheng]

okay, finally. Email incoming I hope, but I have a firm, real number for the classic case is 16ga 6061 aluminum.
$32.25 / each.

Not as cheap as I'd initially hoped but it's at least not too-good-to-be-true cheap. Classic case in stainless steel is supposed to be "in the forty to fifty something range" -- real number should be incoming or if not I guess I drive back out there Friday.

At work, no time to say more.

I would prefer SS.   But in for aluminum as well if that's the only option.   Very cool.   Looking forward to seeing the prototype.   

[justnits]

okay, finally. Email incoming I hope, but I have a firm, real number for the classic case is 16ga 6061 aluminum.
$32.25 / each.

Not as cheap as I'd initially hoped but it's at least not too-good-to-be-true cheap. Classic case in stainless steel is supposed to be "in the forty to fifty something range" -- real number should be incoming or if not I guess I drive back out there Friday.

At work, no time to say more.

this is a one piece case per hand, 2 piece case per hand or sheets type like the massdrop acrylic sheet per hand?

[tbc]

i'm probably going to order 1 pair of both types.  hopefully it fits within $200 total

[AKmalamute]

this is a one piece case per hand, 2 piece case per hand or sheets type like the massdrop acrylic sheet per hand?

Sheets. 1.5mm or so, like the PCBs. This is the thickness that Cherry recommends for switch plates, so I pursued this thought specifically. However, as you'll read a few posts back, even using double that for all five layers, it's a bit tricky to build -- so you'll want stand-offs or a gasket layer, or something else.

i'm probably going to order 1 pair of both types.  hopefully it fits within $200 total

Okay, so: making a few guesses about the stainless steel version of same. We've got for aluminum: 32.25 + sales tax (8.7% I'm pretty sure) then shipping (I'll generalize to $10 but I may have to adjust that when the actual shipping time comes around) and then a tiny GB fee as much to keep guestimations in the black as anything else (I was thinking $2 per person) then paypal fee.

Using those assumptions, an aluminum case comes out to just under $50, CONUS. Making a wild guess that the SS starts at $52, then the same ten layers in 304 stainless come out to $72 CONUS.

 It's a bit of a guess, but if folks want, I can start collecting orders for those two shapes.

What's left, and since I didn't get an email what I guess I have to pester him again about, is: full hand prices, and also "minimalist" prices. But laser time shouldn't significantly go up making the full-hand case, although the metal nearly doubles, which will push the shipping up almost for sure.

[justnits]

this is a one piece case per hand, 2 piece case per hand or sheets type like the massdrop acrylic sheet per hand?

Sheets. 1.5mm or so, like the PCBs. This is the thickness that Cherry recommends for switch plates, so I pursued this thought specifically. However, as you'll read a few posts back, even using double that for all five layers, it's a bit tricky to build -- so you'll want stand-offs or a gasket layer, or something else.

hmm...so basically this is the same dimension and thickness as massdrop's? as in, same thickness per sheets?

[AKmalamute]

hmm...so basically this is the same dimension and thickness as massdrop's? as in, same thickness per sheets?

No, half the thickness in some places, and thinner in others.

As has been discussed in other threads, Massdrop's acrylic is like this:

5mm
3mm
3mm
3mm
5mm

And I don't like several things about that arrangement, not least of which is that I want my keyswitches to clip into place on the plate. So rather than make a bunch of plates but leave the rest to somebody else to cut into acrylic I decided to pursue aluminum, with plans to connect them with silicone rubber where absolutely necessary.

[eviltobz]

Using those assumptions, an aluminum case comes out to just under $50, CONUS.

Are you just considering CONUS destinations for now, or might you be able to flog em worldwide? If so, any chance of getting estimates for sending to the UK?

Cheers

[AKmalamute]

Using those assumptions, an aluminum case comes out to just under $50, CONUS.

Are you just considering CONUS destinations for now, or might you be able to flog em worldwide? If so, any chance of getting estimates for sending to the UK?

Cheers

I think for round one, I'm going to stick to CONUS -- and the reason is, by the end of round one I'll have physical things, so I'll know how much the packaging weighs. Right now I'm just guessing, and it means I know my estimates will be farther off than if I stick to CONUS where I've got more leeway.

But I hope to have a round 2, based on what I'm seeing shape up for round one.

[Tarzan]

I'd be in for a steel case.  Aluminum if that's all that gets created.

[eviltobz]

fair enough. i'll be keeping an eye on the thread anyway, see how it all works out. i'd planned to make myself a wooden case for my second dox, so the race is on, round 2 of the alumicase or me stopping procrastinating and getting on with making something

[AKmalamute]

Okay I caught up with the manager again, and it was a simple miscommunication why this hasn't gone any farther before now.

So, here's what I have:
Cost to get these cases into my hands: 6061 Aluminum, $32.25; 304SS $48.50. Minamalist cases, he assured me if I prorated by surface area (so, 40% of classic case prices) he'd make it go through.

I have enough information to proceed with a group buy, if you'd like. Figuring local taxes, shipping, and paypal fees, I would plan on collecting $49 / $23 for aluminum, and $70 / 32 for stainless. Those numbers assume CONUS shipping.

 Are we still in? Shall I head to the GB subforum for a round one?

[vivalarevolución]

I would be in.  That price sounds too good to be true, but regardless, I would be in.  The acrylic case looked cool for awhile, but now it's just gross.

[AKmalamute]

you are in LUCK, mister prdlm2009!

EVERYONE, find my GB thread and consider!