[IC] DCS Alps WoB Keycaps Revived! - GB Live Now!

[PigeonsLikeBread]

GB is live now, please refer here for finalized kitting and renders, as well as information on where to buy: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=118246

Hello everyone,

This is an interest check for DCS Alps White-on-Black keycaps from Signature Plastics. As some of you may recall, this was previously an interest check by hineybush. He is no longer able to continue with the project and was nice enough to let me take over.

The purpose of this IC is to flush out some kitting, as well as throw out some ideas I had about making an Alps “starter pack.”

One of the biggest hassles with making a custom Alps build is having to source a compatible PCB and plate, switches, keycaps, and stabilizers. Unlike MX parts which are generally standardized, Alps parts do vary and can cause compatibility issues.

Finding aftermarket Alps-compatible PCBs has become easier with so many boards supporting h87a, h88a, and 60% w/ JST. Signature Plastics Alps keycaps use MX stabilizers, so that part is easy too. That leaves keycaps (which this GB covers), plates, and switches.

So along with this group buy, I would like to offer forged carbon fiber plates for many different boards, as well as genuine Alps switches. The latter is a little hard since Alps are no longer made, but I am doing some work to source them.

If this is something of interest to you, please let me know what board(s) you would be interested in getting plates for. Please make sure the board has an Alps compatible PCB already, because that will not be offered.

Now onto kitting:

I reworked some of the kitting. Most notably, I added Alice layout support in the base kit. F13 is TBD since I will need to confirm that it is possible to add at a reasonable price. I also made some changes to the spacebar kit and 40s kit. The ISO kit remains the same. See below.



Note: Legends will be in the style of DCS Midnight, not how they appear in the kits picture

I’d also like to offer relegendables and maybe a macro kit (for boards with a KMAC Mini style left cluster). Any preferences on a relegendable vs macro kit?

I am very open to suggestions for kitting, so please, if you have any, let me know!

My partner and main vendor for this GB is Bear Cable Co. (https://www.bearcables.com/). He will be the US vendor, and possibly, depending on demand, the global vendor. If there is enough interest, regional vendors could be added.

Interest Check Form: https://forms.gle/EpSoCeHza4sZ8MS69
Link to my Discord! https://discord.gg/dTTbRd5rTT

Any and all constructive feedback is great! Thank you.

[PigeonsLikeBread]

Reserved

[7empest]

Nice! Glad to see this is back. Alps is so neglected and there is such a need for more Alps customization! Glwic!

Also, I would def lean on the relegendable side

[Zeelobby]

On board as well.

[ttom]

I'd be interested in a 60% tray plate, but also imagine koala and v2ce plates would be quite popular. Probably in but would much prefer the font that we saw on DCS Alps Yuri.

[Neely_12]

Want to see some good renders, but it’s nice to see alps getting some love. DCS profile is also  GLWIC!

[Fraaaan]

Consider getting rid of UK ISO kit and adding basic ISO support to base kit.

[Weltschmerz]

Interested! Hopefully this does well so we could potentially branch out to more interesting color schemes. I'd probably be in for a set or two

[LightningXI]

Nice. Good to see this back in the running.

[jH0Ni]

Would love a kit for vertical fn/macro cluster a la kmac mini. If so, I'd prefer macro keys rather than relegendables.

[tpec]

Glad this is moving forward! Can't wait to get some nice Alps caps:)

[see]

ooooh, been reading up on more alps/vint stuff recently and this is cool. especially with the non-standard dcs font (the font on dcs is one of the turn offs for me although it's not too bad)

good to see this is being revived

[i luv chuletas]

So glad to see this back up and running again!

As a side note, any chance we can get a 1u enter key for the 40's kit? Would love this for my Cajal and some green alps!

[Onnimar]

Count me in. Been waiting on this for a while.

edit "Keep the UK ISO, please." 

[Little4Real]

Any chance you could add a 1U "0" to the numpad as well as the 2U version? Would be greatly appreciated.

[PigeonsLikeBread]

So glad to see this back up and running again!

As a side note, any chance we can get a 1u enter key for the 40's kit? Would love this for my Cajal and some green alps!

I will probably be revising the 40s kit so I will keep this in mind!

Any chance you could add a 1U "0" to the numpad as well as the 2U version? Would be greatly appreciated.

There is a R4 1u "0" - did you need something else?

[Sterenke]

Just wanted to say that the 40s rows probably have the wrong lables. The lower r2 should probably be r3. I'm also uncertain of who will use the r2 capslock for 40s (you might want to remove it).

In regards to the spacebar kit - you might want to add a 2u spacebar for alice support with 2u+1,25u layout.

Thanks for reviving this!
GLWIC

[Sturmtiger]

Let's go, looking good!

[U47]

Just wanted to say that the 40s rows probably have the wrong lables. The lower r2 should probably be r3. I'm also uncertain of who will use the r2 capslock for 40s (you might want to remove it).

R3 is definitely missing a 1U ESC and/or a CTRL. That's a lot of Enters.

I'm not super familiar what the 40s kit is trying to support, but there's a lot of >1U keys here.

[PigeonsLikeBread]

Just wanted to say that the 40s rows probably have the wrong lables. The lower r2 should probably be r3. I'm also uncertain of who will use the r2 capslock for 40s (you might want to remove it).

In regards to the spacebar kit - you might want to add a 2u spacebar for alice support with 2u+1,25u layout.

Thanks for reviving this!
GLWIC

Just wanted to say that the 40s rows probably have the wrong lables. The lower r2 should probably be r3. I'm also uncertain of who will use the r2 capslock for 40s (you might want to remove it).

R3 is definitely missing a 1U ESC and/or a CTRL. That's a lot of Enters.

I'm not super familiar what the 40s kit is trying to support, but there's a lot of >1U keys here.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll definitely be revising the 40s kit.

[Little4Real]

There is a R4 1u "0" - did you need something else?

Forgive me, I'm a little dumb sometimes.

[Domantas]

hm maybe buy just to have alps keycaps lol. Though I would recommend make it smaller kit (tkl + 65% and some basic ones) to keep price lower

[joshuarubin]

Curious what “original alps” switches you might be able to source. Are we talking new old stock skcm/skcl? Newer gen? What colors? It seemed like an aside in the post but sounds like a huge deal to me!

[beigeandbrown]

It'd be very cool if you would get sckm blue/orange and skcl greens but I think finding a good source of dell big foots, pine (old logo) if possible, would be ideal because people could try tactile, clicky, and linear (through modification of leaves) at a much lower price than sourcing the colored switches (esp. with those blue alps reaching $4+ per switch).

[sntXrrr]

Interesting, not sure if I will join. When it comes to Alps I have a Keymacs and will own a Borsdorf, both have non-standard layouts so these caps won't help me much there. But maybe I'll buy them anyway for some future board I don't know about yet.

[matthewdias]

I feel like 1 large base kit would make cost much more viable for those that need the extension kits. You could trim down 40s to just 1.75 backspace, 1.5 enter, and 1.25 tab, and do terminal ISO, so you arent adding too many keys to base. i think you can delete the 1.5u bar and the extra 2.75u bar, they arent really adding support for anything unless theres something alpsey idk about.

[Croktopus]

nice. hopefully it gets multiple rounds to encourage more alps kb/pcb design

[rpiguy9907]

I have the opposite opinion - make smaller, cheaper kits.

No need for a num pad in the base kit. There are very few full size/1800 customs that need the numpad.

Make a small, cheap kit.

[J3ff_Leopard]

I have the opposite opinion - make smaller, cheaper kits.

No need for a num pad in the base kit. There are very few full size/1800 customs that need the numpad.

Make a small, cheap kit.

Breaking up kits results in substantial price increases for people who need that compatibility. More than everyone else saves in most instances. Also for each kit you add, you significantly increase the risks that each one won't succeed. And yes, in 2021 there are still major concerns over Alps kits hitting moq. If anything it's only getting worse as time goes on as less switches become available/usable.It's very much still a niche within a niche. In my opinion, we should have as few kits as possible and support each other as a community to make sure it gets made.

[drdoc]

Y'all can throw rocks if you like, but a Matias kit would be the cat's PJs.

They make good switches and decent boards, but their keycaps are really awful.

And maybe a BAE set just for giggles

[Cods]

Interested in one or maybe two sets of each.
Would also be interested in other colourways - black-on-white, or even something like the design/colours Drop + BIIP throwback set.

[U47]

As a veteran of the Alpine Winter buy, I think you should keep it as simple as possible. There are going to be more than enough problems with manufacturing and logistics, lack of Alps stab tooling, SP mess-ups, etc. etc. There's no need to try and scratch everyone's itch.

Signature Plastics caps are nothing to write home about, but a WoB PBT set is a legitimate goal that doesn't currently exist. It's a good goal.

I would suggest supporting as many layouts as is reasonable, and make a single kit (or maybe split it into two). That's already enough for any Alps group buy, imho. Fancy colourways, novelties, etc. can come later if this one is successful.

[Bushhawk]

Nice to see some love for Alps.

[cgbuen]

In for at least one!

[hottrout]

I'll take a set of everything, thank you for the simple but perfect ISO kit, I can't understand why all GB have a set like this as standard.

[U47]

Question: does Signature Plastics have the ability to make convex Alps spacebars shorter than 6U? Honestly, that's my unicorn.

It's been mentioned already and you have said you're revising the 40s kit, but having 2 2U spacebars in the 40s kit is probably a good idea.

Looking forward to this hopefully happening.

[PigeonsLikeBread]

Question: does Signature Plastics have the ability to make convex Alps spacebars shorter than 6U? Honestly, that's my unicorn.

Hopefully it can be done, we will be working with SP on this.

[Domantas]

I have the opposite opinion - make smaller, cheaper kits.

No need for a num pad in the base kit. There are very few full size/1800 customs that need the numpad.

Make a small, cheap kit.

Breaking up kits results in substantial price increases for people who need that compatibility. More than everyone else saves in most instances. Also for each kit you add, you significantly increase the risks that each one won't succeed. And yes, in 2021 there are still major concerns over Alps kits hitting moq. If anything it's only getting worse as time goes on as less switches become available/usable.It's very much still a niche within a niche. In my opinion, we should have as few kits as possible and support each other as a community to make sure it gets made.

I am always for either: super small base kit (kinda just to try it before new revision) OR super huge base kit and no other kits (unless it is 40% which is rare as it is, so it can be seperate). Thus I love drop sets (but kinda don't like drop itself lol). Hionestly anything could be alps but somehow people don't like to make plates and pcb for it. Generally I like base kit so either this or smaller

[BOK]

Reserve

[F13]

Thanks for picking up this GB.

Looking forward to this going live!

[ephemeral25]

Super nice project, still interested in it.

Could you please consider pipe R3 for the ISO kit ? (for ISO US)

[_rubik]

Ditto. Still interested.

[TjarleN]

ne updates avail?

[PigeonsLikeBread]

Currently working on kitting as well as plates.

So far I have prototypes for standard 60% (tray & o-ring), Jane V1 (with smaller tabs for Orion board compatibility), Jane V2, and Jane V2 CE, all in 1.1mm forged carbon fiber.

Pictures available here: https://imgur.com/a/TjnaBoX

I will be adding both macros and relegendables kits most likely, as well as regional vendors.

[audax989]

Currently working on kitting as well as plates.

So far I have prototypes for standard 60% (tray & o-ring), Jane V1 (with smaller tabs for Orion board compatibility), Jane V2, and Jane V2 CE, all in 1.1mm forged carbon fiber.

Pictures available here: https://imgur.com/a/TjnaBoX

I will be adding both macros and relegendables kits most likely, as well as regional vendors.

would definitely be interested in a Jane / Orion Alps solution. Hopefully this makes it.

[AeternusCo]

I'd suggest removing the R2 caps key from the 40s kit, that's not really a key that's used

[headdent]

Would love to see a relegendable kit happen.

[xjejex]

def interested, keep up the good work!

[kameron]

some renders would be nice and i agree that a relegendable kit would be great glwic.

[treeleaf64]

Will purchase for the long awaited day when someone decides to remake alps skcl green my favorite linear so i can put it on my kebyoard

[Chalkboard]

I support this. WoB ALPS sets are very versatile and it would be nice to snag another set. 

[json]

yooo is this project still active?

[PigeonsLikeBread]

yooo is this project still active?

Yes, still alive! Sorry for the delays, but this will definitely happen!

[i luv chuletas]

I'm happy to hear that this is still being worked on.

Do you think there's any chance of adding a relegendables kit for this set? A la DCS Pingmaster, perhaps?

Thanks!

[PigeonsLikeBread]

I'm happy to hear that this is still being worked on.

Do you think there's any chance of adding a relegendables kit for this set? A la DCS Pingmaster, perhaps?

Thanks!

Yep, definitely will be adding a relegendables kit! Probably will be a smaller kit with 10 caps to keep price down, so enough for a macro column with one kit, and enough to line the top row of a TKL with two kits.

[linell]

I never knew this was a thing until now
maybe I'll get into alps if I get this

[StormyMonday]

I'm still unsure of my next project, but it'll probably either be a split ergo 40%, or a dactyl manuform, so no plates will be necessary.
Watching with interest.

[caronte0]

i dont know if this has been asked before. But will they be abs or pbt? I'm guessing abs, since pbt would be reverse dye sub and i dont know if sp is able to do it

[AstralYT]

i dont know if this has been asked before. But will they be abs or pbt? I'm guessing abs, since pbt would be reverse dye sub and i dont know if sp is able to do it

I think DCS has always been ABS, except the Delftware

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[OhKeycaps]

I wonder if there is enough interest for DSA blank alps. Would be cheap. Sorry don't mean to knock on this GB, just thinking out loud. Are there many ortho boards with alps, or are they typically staggered?

[i luv chuletas]

i dont know if this has been asked before. But will they be abs or pbt? I'm guessing abs, since pbt would be reverse dye sub and i dont know if sp is able to do it

I think DCS has always been ABS, except the Delftware

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 Pro using Tapatalk

DCS Pingmaster was PBT, with the spacebar being ABS. I am hoping that this kit would follow suit.

Also, as an aside, consider running plates as a separate GB from the keycaps themselves. Less of a logistical nightmare for you, and more importantly we would likely be able to see this running sooner 

[bigapplepietart]

Following as I fall down the Alps rabbit hole

[Ensaum]

i dont know if this has been asked before. But will they be abs or pbt? I'm guessing abs, since pbt would be reverse dye sub and i dont know if sp is able to do it

I think DCS has always been ABS, except the Delftware

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 Pro using Tapatalk

DCS Pingmaster was PBT, with the spacebar being ABS. I am hoping that this kit would follow suit.

Also, as an aside, consider running plates as a separate GB from the keycaps themselves. Less of a logistical nightmare for you, and more importantly we would likely be able to see this running sooner 

 

Can SP do reverse dyesub? Or doubleshot pbt? Would be sick if they could do either.

[caronte0]

Would LOVE to see it on pbt

[IO Sam]

yooo is this project still active?

Yes, still alive! Sorry for the delays, but this will definitely happen!

Any rough estimate for when the GB will go live?

[segami]

Hope this happens sometime soon

[PigeonsLikeBread]

Hello!

Below is the first major update for DCS Alps WoB. I apologize for the delay in updating, but going forward things will be moving at a faster pace so we can wrap things up and go into GB soon

I read all of the feedback provided in the IC form and made changes based on that. Thank you to everyone that helped out with that!


Kitting

Kitting Images: https://imgur.com/a/qKPV0Q7

There was a large amount of people that wanted a smaller, cheaper base kit so that they could justify ordering multiple sets. After all, WoB is a classic that looks good on any board, so I opted for slimming down the base kit to accommodate this.

The new Base kit does not have a numpad or Alice spacebars in the kit. However, an extra B and necessary shift keys are included so that the Base kit can be directly used on an Alice, albeit with shift keys for spacebars.

Alice spacebars were added to the spacebar kit, and the numpad was made its own separate kit.

The 40’s kit was revised based on feedback I received. It should hopefully now cover more boards.

The UK ISO kit was left the same.

Lastly, I added a Macros kit and Relegendables kit. The Macro kit is sized and profiled for boards like the KMAC Mini, Jubi, etc. The Relegendables kit was designed to fill a left column + the entire top row of an F13 TKL.

Note: it is possible the Macros kit will be removed due to limitations with what we can have produced.


Switches

As promised, we will be offering Alps switches with the GB. However, doing so is not simple since Alps switches have been out of production for decades.

I am happy to say that I have sourced and purchased a sizeable amount of NOS (new old stock) Alps SKCM White (Pine) switches. These are all brand new, never soldered, and in perfect condition. They are also Pine switches, not Bamboo, meaning they have a better housing than the later produced Alps.

With these, we are essentially offering both clicky and linear switches. How? Well, it is pretty simple: Alps SKCM (tactile/clicky) switches follow the same design as SKCL (linear) switches, but add a second switch plate for the tactility and clicky sound. So, while SKCM White are clicky switches by default, making them linear is as simple as opening up the switch and removing the second plate. And, you can do this even after you built your board, since Alps support switch top opening even when locked into a plate!


Plates

Plate Images: https://imgur.com/a/0hNLwQg

I have been designing and prototyping forged carbon fiber plates (1.1mm thick) to offer along with the GB. With that being said, here is what we will be offering:

60%
Jane V1
Jane V2
Jane V2 CE

I chose to offer these four plates, since they are compatible with dozens of boards. For starters, the 60% plate will support tray mounted boards (Tofu60, Klippe, etc.) in addition to gummy o-ring mounted boards (Unikorn, Moontower, Bakeneko60, etc).

The Jane series of plates do not need much introduction, but here is an incomplete list of some boards they are compatible with:

Jane V1 - Mech27, Mira, Moon, Orion, Unicorn (I modified the tabs to work with the Duck boards)
Jane V2 - Whale, Koala
Jane V2 CE - KFE


Vendors

While an overwhelming majority of IC respondents were from NA, I did notice the demand for vendors in other regions. Beyond Bear Cable Co., we will likely be adding vendors for the UK, EU, and SEA. Regions and vendors are still tbd.

If you would like a regional vendor, and have a preference for which vendor, please let us know! We would love to hear feedback on what vendors the community outside NA are a fan of.


Going Forward

We are in the process of contacting SP for quotes and info on feasibility of kits. Therefore, kitting is subject to change. We will also hopefully be able to comment on pricing soon.

Also, I’ve mentioned it before, but to clarify, this set will be doubleshot ABS. PBT dyesub is not possible for WoB, since SP does not offer reverse-dyesublimation.

Any and all feedback is critical to refining this set and creating a final product that best suits the community, so we appreciate any comments

Feel free to discuss here on GH, Reddit, or join my Discord server: https://discord.gg/juA7YBtzaT

[Ensaum]

Let's go! Very happy to see some progress on this finally.

[pixelpusher]

Pine whites are better than skcm blues. I said it.

[audax989]

any chance of adding a pcb to that list too? maybe a gb with hiney?

[PigeonsLikeBread]

any chance of adding a pcb to that list too? maybe a gb with hiney?

Probably not, since it would further complicate logistics, but Hiney said he will be running more PCBs in the near future. You can find his Discord here: https://discord.hiney.cc/

Hiney PCBs are pretty much the go-to for Alps customs, so I would definitely recommend picking some up in the future when he runs them

[Bl4ck]

Any estimative on price for each kit?

[jH0Ni]

Glad to see this got some traction again. Will buy most kits, and probably a 60% plate.

[PigeonsLikeBread]

Firstly, thank you everyone for your patience. I'm happy to say that it is just about time for the GB!

GB will run August 31 to September 30

Vendors:

• Bear Cables – NA
• MykeyboardEU – EU
• Prototypist – UK
• Daily Clack - AUS
• Zfrontier- Asia

US Pricing & MOQs (pricing for non-US vendors will be announced closer to GB date)

• Base Kit $120 (MOQ 200)
• Numpad $40 (MOQ 50)
• 40s $35 (MOQ 50)
• Macros $20 (MOQ 50)
• Relegendables $35 (MOQ 75)
• Spacebars $25 (MOQ 75)
• ISO $25 (MOQ 25)

Kitting
Kitting will be the same as here except there will be no 6u spacebar in the Spacebars kit

Renders
Before the GB we will have renders (of both kitting and the caps on boards)

Plates & Switches
Bear Cables (US) will be the exclusive vendor for plates and switches. As a reminder, plates will be 1.1mm thick forged carbon fiber, available for standard 60%, Jane V1, Jane V2, and Jane V2 CE. These four plates will support a sizeable amount of boards. Switches will be new-old-stock (NOS) Alps SKCM Pine White.

Unlimited amount of plates available, semi-limited number of switches available. Pricing will be posted closer to GB date.

Questions?
Happy to answer any questions. I will be making a GB post the week of the 28th with full, finalized details.

I'll post updates on GH, but feel free to join my Discord as well for updates and discussion!

[HappyB0T]

Lets go!

[menuhin]

...
Kitting
Kitting will be the same as here except there will be no 6u spacebar in the Spacebars kit
...

Where will the 6u spacebar be? In which kit?
Or a 6u spacebar will not be offered in this GB?

Alps WoB is definitely something that I have been looking for but 6u spacebar is mandatory for my build.

[PigeonsLikeBread]

...
Kitting
Kitting will be the same as here except there will be no 6u spacebar in the Spacebars kit
...

Where will the 6u spacebar be? In which kit?
Or a 6u spacebar will not be offered in this GB?

Alps WoB is definitely something that I have been looking for but 6u spacebar is mandatory for my build.

There will not be a 6u spacebar offered in any kit, since SP's 6u spacebar uses weird stabilizer spacing that makes it basically unusable without a custom PCB/plate.

May I ask what build you're doing that requires 6u?

[menuhin]

...
Kitting
Kitting will be the same as here except there will be no 6u spacebar in the Spacebars kit
...

Where will the 6u spacebar be? In which kit?
Or a 6u spacebar will not be offered in this GB?

Alps WoB is definitely something that I have been looking for but 6u spacebar is mandatory for my build.

There will not be a 6u spacebar offered in any kit, since SP's 6u spacebar uses weird stabilizer spacing that makes it basically unusable without a custom PCB/plate.

May I ask what build you're doing that requires 6u?

A true HHKB (6u spacebar) layout build.

[IO Sam]

Phew... Caught this one on the nick of time. Considering the relatively small size of the Alps community, and my lack of familiarity with Bear Cable as a vendor, will all sets ordered be made (meaning the vendor buying the remaining sets to reach MOQ if needed)? Or do we need to reach MOQ ourselves for the GB to go to production?

Nevermind... Just joined the Discord server and saw that you have addressed this issue over there already