Author Topic: Car Thread  (Read 647766 times)

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Offline Sniping

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3050 on: Sun, 26 September 2021, 15:54:27 »
I've driven some of these, owned none, read and seen a lot of opinions about them. I think I can give you some input here, but also some perspective. I think the RX-8 is a great underrated car right now but it's hard to find one that has good history, is cheap, and there's still risk that it can become a huge issue for you. You have good taste though. I think you have a pretty good list of cars that can be daily driven, but just the fact that this is your only car means that you cannot risk it being broken down for very long.

I think the Fiesta ST was really fun to just keep it floored off every light. One of the odd deal breakers for me is that it's basically impossible to heel toe with the pedal setup. It really annoyed me and I guess I made it work, but it's not ideal.

Good call on the 90's cars. You definitely need to be able to diagnose and fix issues as they come up, and it's just a lot of work for a daily and first car because it comes with mechanical liability. This part is debatable for sure, but for safety reasons and comfort, it's a good idea to not make a 90's car your only vehicle.

About the perspective thing. It sounds like your use case is just daily driving and some mountain road fun. To me, the best car for that is maybe like one tier or so cheaper than the cars you're considering, and the reason is is that you want something you can be prepared to bang up and not be sad about it. There's a lot of plain stupid drivers out on the road, and it'd be a lot sadder to see your dream car get jacked up in any possible collision, as opposed to a daily workhorse. People that make frequent backroad runs always jack up their car too. It's just hard to push your car frequently and expect it to not be damaged at all, and it makes it a constant worry in the back of your mind. This on top of the fact that it's your first car and you're learning to row a manual means that you have a whole lot to think about while driving. You'd probably want something that you could afford to potentially even total or wreck completely. To me, it's a lot more satisfying just driving fast and feeling like you don't have much to lose. When you buy a car that's at the limit of your budget, sometimes it becomes a liability and worry more than anything. I also wouldn't worry about a car's overall characteristics much in terms of over/understeering, because the car is already losing grip at that point. You have to drive a car close to its limit to start experiencing any of this, and you basically have to be driving like a maniac on the street or pushing relatively hard in the back road to have to worry about any of this.

So, if you ask me, this is what more the list would look like if you downgraded a tier
Honda Fit
8th gen civic si
acura rsx base or type-s
e46 330i (or any variation, don't bother with the zhp)
e90/e92 328i/330i, or 128i
rx-8
nc miata

All these choices are more between the 5-10k range as opposed to 10-15k range with your choices but it's still a challenge to find a nice one with a reasonable past owner, especially with the civic si, even though that'd probably be my top choice out of the list for a daily. Keep in mind the more sporty the trim, the harder the car will likely have been driven in the past. It's an interesting concept that most people don't talk about, but it's one of the reasons why I don't have much interest in the 350z/g35 vq/hr platform, since it's just not easy to find a clean one that's not sus. Ultimately, it's your choice how nice of a car you want, but I think it's important to consider if you'd be happier with an older work horse or a clean baby. Most people that run the mountain roads hard really go for ****ty cars that they can send every night, but it sounds like there's some other factors at play here plus you gotta get your driving down. Good luck though! More than anything it's just about scoring a deal on a solid used car in my eyes.


Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3051 on: Sun, 26 September 2021, 16:31:50 »
Thank you Sniping for your insight, and you are spot on with many of your points. The Civic SI was a consideration, but ultimately I'd rather spend the extra for the Fiesta.
also I just don't like BMWs, sorry BMW fans

I also see after all that being considered you still put the RX-8 on your recommended list, and I am strongly feeling the same way right now. What the Mazda offers over everything else for the price can't be ignored, and everything I am reading is people who say the RX-8 is unreliable are people who never owned one. And the RX-8 has enough weirdness that makes it more personable.

Offline Sniping

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3052 on: Sun, 26 September 2021, 19:03:27 »
Thank you Sniping for your insight, and you are spot on with many of your points. The Civic SI was a consideration, but ultimately I'd rather spend the extra for the Fiesta.
also I just don't like BMWs, sorry BMW fans

I also see after all that being considered you still put the RX-8 on your recommended list, and I am strongly feeling the same way right now. What the Mazda offers over everything else for the price can't be ignored, and everything I am reading is people who say the RX-8 is unreliable are people who never owned one. And the RX-8 has enough weirdness that makes it more personable.

Yep, the RX-8 is a rather temperamental platform but a great choice. It's well behaved on the limit and pretty neutral, whereas its main competitor, the S2000, is a scarier car to drive quick and really for the more unhinged driver when pushing it. It is the one car you have to be pretty careful about mechanically. You really need to past owner to know exactly what they're talking about and doing to know that the car has been in good hands. It's usually a good sign if the previous owner uses premix or is at least aware of it. Another dead giveaway of good ownership is if the tires are quality or no name junk. It's definitely cheaper than the FRS so it'll save you a buck initially. A lot of engine reliability problems are overblown on the internet but really, you just need to consider how much driving you actually do and how much risk you're at in the next 5-10 years of something going very wrong. I assume that you probably won't be driving too much since you've made it this far already without a car, so unless you have a fat commute you won't be putting that many miles on, the RX-8 could be a decent pick.

Offline audax989

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3053 on: Sun, 26 September 2021, 19:53:47 »


I reckon used BRZ/86 and 370 Z's will drop in price significantly next year when their replacements roll out, which is why now is the perfect time. Good prices, and pick of the crop from people looking to replace their current gen models.


Looks like the price will be your deciding factor. there's a bunch of 370 z's just sitting in the lot of my local dealership they will definitely be offloading those in time for the new z.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3054 on: Tue, 02 November 2021, 10:01:12 »
I was digging around and found another picture. Enjoy!

I know this is very late, but I haven't been around lately. A modern Challenger is the one car on my dream list that might actually be attainable some day. They're the last (and always were the best) of the classic muscle revival body styles, since the originals are only for rich people. I would want at least an SRT8 though. Next down the list of preferences would be a 370z. I have thought about punting and grabbing a Charger from a police auction in the mean time, since those go for 10k-ish, with police upgrades, and a column shifter ... since that's what it should be if it has to be an automatic.

What I got in the mean time is another car I have always loved, a black 2007 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GT, 6 speed manual. Spyder GTs with manual transmissions don't seem very common.



The previous owner put wider rims and tires on to help with the torque steer they're notorious for (it is still pretty bad, but you can just gorilla the wheel to keep from putting it in a ditch), and did some performance and exhaust mods. It is fun as heck to drive. Safest car I have ever owned too since I had never before had a car with 4 wheel disks.

I would say they're one of only a few relatively modern models that have their own style entirely.

Keep in mind the more sporty the trim, the harder the car will likely have been driven in the past. It's an interesting concept that most people don't talk about, but it's one of the reasons why I don't have much interest in the 350z/g35 vq/hr platform, since it's just not easy to find a clean one that's not sus.

I know a guy with a garage-kept 6 speed 350z with only 29k miles on it. It still has the new car smell. I test drove it, and it was really fun. He wanted too much for it (probably partly because he wanted to save it for his son to buy). The clutches are weird on those cars. If the styling were more like the 370z, I might have saved up some more money and pushed harder for an agreement. I'm glad I didn't because I wanted a convertible anyway, and z convertibles don't look right to me.



I reckon used BRZ/86 and 370 Z's will drop in price significantly next year when their replacements roll out, which is why now is the perfect time. Good prices, and pick of the crop from people looking to replace their current gen models.


Looks like the price will be your deciding factor. there's a bunch of 370 z's just sitting in the lot of my local dealership they will definitely be offloading those in time for the new z.

I think the 370z is the best looking member of the family. Their replacement looks terrible in my opinion, almost like a generic 90s car again.

Offline Williampaul

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3055 on: Tue, 09 November 2021, 02:37:21 »
Well, I've been wandering around the forum, and am currently on this thread. Because I just bought a 2020 Toyota Camry Hybrid LE. Previously, I drove a 2010 Honda Civic.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3056 on: Tue, 09 November 2021, 08:42:42 »
Well, I've been wandering around the forum, and am currently on this thread. Because I just bought a 2020 Toyota Camry Hybrid LE. Previously, I drove a 2010 Honda Civic.

53 mpg highway with 208 horsepower? That's pretty awesome.

Offline Sniping

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3057 on: Tue, 09 November 2021, 16:23:26 »
Car life updates: ate up my clutch the other month and the car is finally finished at the shop so excited to get it back today :) got a lightened flywheel which hopefully doesn't end up biting me in the tail, and talked to my neighbor yesterday who offered to let me drive their 911 carrera s once a month since it sits in their garage too much...lol

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3058 on: Tue, 09 November 2021, 16:37:14 »
Car life updates: ate up my clutch the other month and the car is finally finished at the shop so excited to get it back today :) got a lightened flywheel which hopefully doesn't end up biting me in the tail, and talked to my neighbor yesterday who offered to let me drive their 911 carrera s once a month since it sits in their garage too much...lol

What sort of car have you got again? I wish somebody had ever offered to just let me drive a sports car at all. That 350z was the first one. I'm jealous.

I think the Eclipse's clutch has over 100 thousand miles on it already, and it does engage pretty high. Something's slipping for sure (if I give it a lot of torque), but I know the input shaft bearings go out on those as well. I sort of want to wait until I can find an LSD for it, but Quaife discontinued them for that car some time ago.

When the original clutch went on my Saturn SC2 around 170k I literally still drove it to the shop by feathering the clutch and upshifting if I got enough inertia on a decline. If I gave it much of any gas at all it would just slip. I drove it with no breaks 20 miles to a family friend's place (who is a mechanic) as well once. Pretty hard to stop a stick shift from getting where it needs to go even when things break.

Offline Sniping

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3059 on: Wed, 10 November 2021, 16:46:06 »
Car life updates: ate up my clutch the other month and the car is finally finished at the shop so excited to get it back today :) got a lightened flywheel which hopefully doesn't end up biting me in the tail, and talked to my neighbor yesterday who offered to let me drive their 911 carrera s once a month since it sits in their garage too much...lol

What sort of car have you got again? I wish somebody had ever offered to just let me drive a sports car at all. That 350z was the first one. I'm jealous.

I think the Eclipse's clutch has over 100 thousand miles on it already, and it does engage pretty high. Something's slipping for sure (if I give it a lot of torque), but I know the input shaft bearings go out on those as well. I sort of want to wait until I can find an LSD for it, but Quaife discontinued them for that car some time ago.

When the original clutch went on my Saturn SC2 around 170k I literally still drove it to the shop by feathering the clutch and upshifting if I got enough inertia on a decline. If I gave it much of any gas at all it would just slip. I drove it with no breaks 20 miles to a family friend's place (who is a mechanic) as well once. Pretty hard to stop a stick shift from getting where it needs to go even when things break.

I have a 135i convertible. It has the N54 motor which is notorious for being a great tuner motor but has a ton of issues. I got the shop to do my clutch since doing a clutch job sounded kind of miserable to me. Was told the oil filter housing gasket was starting to leak again (last owner replaced this before) which is a $1000 labor job but I think I'll knock it out myself in the next month or two. Clutch went out on my car at 70k, LOL. I drive it like an idiot, no joke. Well, I mentioned that I got a lightened single mass flywheel installed with the clutch job. Turns out the sound is horrendous lol. I don't totally regret it but if I had to do it over again I'd just go with the stock dual mass. This thing definitely makes the car sounds like it's broken. Think the takeaway is that you shouldn't get a lightened flywheel unless you really need one for high hp application. Maybe you can look into whether a master/slave cylinder bleed would help your clutch feel?

LSDs aren't cheap but they're sweet. I've really come to appreciate cars that have LSDs stock. I love the civic si for that reason. I feel like it's a totally liveable car that can be driven super hard with a motor very similar to what the S2000 has, for half the price. I doubt I'd get one for my car since they're expensive, but eventually I'll get a car that does, when the time is right..


Offline Maledicted

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3060 on: Fri, 12 November 2021, 10:06:14 »
Car life updates: ate up my clutch the other month and the car is finally finished at the shop so excited to get it back today :) got a lightened flywheel which hopefully doesn't end up biting me in the tail, and talked to my neighbor yesterday who offered to let me drive their 911 carrera s once a month since it sits in their garage too much...lol

What sort of car have you got again? I wish somebody had ever offered to just let me drive a sports car at all. That 350z was the first one. I'm jealous.

I think the Eclipse's clutch has over 100 thousand miles on it already, and it does engage pretty high. Something's slipping for sure (if I give it a lot of torque), but I know the input shaft bearings go out on those as well. I sort of want to wait until I can find an LSD for it, but Quaife discontinued them for that car some time ago.

When the original clutch went on my Saturn SC2 around 170k I literally still drove it to the shop by feathering the clutch and upshifting if I got enough inertia on a decline. If I gave it much of any gas at all it would just slip. I drove it with no breaks 20 miles to a family friend's place (who is a mechanic) as well once. Pretty hard to stop a stick shift from getting where it needs to go even when things break.

I have a 135i convertible. It has the N54 motor which is notorious for being a great tuner motor but has a ton of issues. I got the shop to do my clutch since doing a clutch job sounded kind of miserable to me. Was told the oil filter housing gasket was starting to leak again (last owner replaced this before) which is a $1000 labor job but I think I'll knock it out myself in the next month or two. Clutch went out on my car at 70k, LOL. I drive it like an idiot, no joke. Well, I mentioned that I got a lightened single mass flywheel installed with the clutch job. Turns out the sound is horrendous lol. I don't totally regret it but if I had to do it over again I'd just go with the stock dual mass. This thing definitely makes the car sounds like it's broken. Think the takeaway is that you shouldn't get a lightened flywheel unless you really need one for high hp application. Maybe you can look into whether a master/slave cylinder bleed would help your clutch feel?

LSDs aren't cheap but they're sweet. I've really come to appreciate cars that have LSDs stock. I love the civic si for that reason. I feel like it's a totally liveable car that can be driven super hard with a motor very similar to what the S2000 has, for half the price. I doubt I'd get one for my car since they're expensive, but eventually I'll get a car that does, when the time is right..

I don't know anything about BMWs. How do you like it? I always liked how some of their roadsters looked. Reported repair costs and difficulty in servicing always shied me away.

$1,000 in labor for a gasket for the oil filter housing?  :eek: Is it really hard to get at?

Well, what do you mean by driving like an idiot? Burning up the clutch for launches, inefficient shifts or just driving like a maniac? I do the latter for some smiles myself. I wasn't exactly gentle with that SC2 in the 63k-ish miles I put on it since I got it before that clutch went.

Maybe you just need to put a nice Magnaflow exhaust on the beamer so you can't hear the flywheel anymore.  ;D

Nobody has looked at the Eclipse at all since I bought it. I know my SC2 inside and out just because I have owned it so long and there are comprehensive videos on their quirks and repairs on Youtube, many of which I have done. I want to take the Eclipse to our family friend to go over the whole thing. It has various things to address. Cruise control doesn't even work. I replaced the click spring myself, but it still doesn't work, and I'm no expert on car electronics. I just know it isn't a blown fuse.

Eclipse GT has massive torque steer, even with the wider tires. I'm thinking an LSD might even help with that, besides also wasting less energy getting going and hopefully getting better traction overall.

I didn't know the Civic SI had an LSD, that's pretty awesome.

Offline Sniping

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3061 on: Fri, 19 November 2021, 15:20:35 »
Car life updates: ate up my clutch the other month and the car is finally finished at the shop so excited to get it back today :) got a lightened flywheel which hopefully doesn't end up biting me in the tail, and talked to my neighbor yesterday who offered to let me drive their 911 carrera s once a month since it sits in their garage too much...lol

What sort of car have you got again? I wish somebody had ever offered to just let me drive a sports car at all. That 350z was the first one. I'm jealous.

I think the Eclipse's clutch has over 100 thousand miles on it already, and it does engage pretty high. Something's slipping for sure (if I give it a lot of torque), but I know the input shaft bearings go out on those as well. I sort of want to wait until I can find an LSD for it, but Quaife discontinued them for that car some time ago.

When the original clutch went on my Saturn SC2 around 170k I literally still drove it to the shop by feathering the clutch and upshifting if I got enough inertia on a decline. If I gave it much of any gas at all it would just slip. I drove it with no breaks 20 miles to a family friend's place (who is a mechanic) as well once. Pretty hard to stop a stick shift from getting where it needs to go even when things break.

I have a 135i convertible. It has the N54 motor which is notorious for being a great tuner motor but has a ton of issues. I got the shop to do my clutch since doing a clutch job sounded kind of miserable to me. Was told the oil filter housing gasket was starting to leak again (last owner replaced this before) which is a $1000 labor job but I think I'll knock it out myself in the next month or two. Clutch went out on my car at 70k, LOL. I drive it like an idiot, no joke. Well, I mentioned that I got a lightened single mass flywheel installed with the clutch job. Turns out the sound is horrendous lol. I don't totally regret it but if I had to do it over again I'd just go with the stock dual mass. This thing definitely makes the car sounds like it's broken. Think the takeaway is that you shouldn't get a lightened flywheel unless you really need one for high hp application. Maybe you can look into whether a master/slave cylinder bleed would help your clutch feel?

LSDs aren't cheap but they're sweet. I've really come to appreciate cars that have LSDs stock. I love the civic si for that reason. I feel like it's a totally liveable car that can be driven super hard with a motor very similar to what the S2000 has, for half the price. I doubt I'd get one for my car since they're expensive, but eventually I'll get a car that does, when the time is right..

I don't know anything about BMWs. How do you like it? I always liked how some of their roadsters looked. Reported repair costs and difficulty in servicing always shied me away.

$1,000 in labor for a gasket for the oil filter housing?  :eek: Is it really hard to get at?

Well, what do you mean by driving like an idiot? Burning up the clutch for launches, inefficient shifts or just driving like a maniac? I do the latter for some smiles myself. I wasn't exactly gentle with that SC2 in the 63k-ish miles I put on it since I got it before that clutch went.

Maybe you just need to put a nice Magnaflow exhaust on the beamer so you can't hear the flywheel anymore.  ;D

Nobody has looked at the Eclipse at all since I bought it. I know my SC2 inside and out just because I have owned it so long and there are comprehensive videos on their quirks and repairs on Youtube, many of which I have done. I want to take the Eclipse to our family friend to go over the whole thing. It has various things to address. Cruise control doesn't even work. I replaced the click spring myself, but it still doesn't work, and I'm no expert on car electronics. I just know it isn't a blown fuse.

Eclipse GT has massive torque steer, even with the wider tires. I'm thinking an LSD might even help with that, besides also wasting less energy getting going and hopefully getting better traction overall.

I didn't know the Civic SI had an LSD, that's pretty awesome.

Hmm, BMWs are pretty good actually. Don't love having a flashy car but the BMW isn't too flashy in the bay area, which is tesla central anyways. I think what makes BMWs good is the parts availability, base performance level, and features. As for parts, there's two great suppliers, FCP euro and ECS tuning that have plenty of OEM parts and parts from the manufacturer that are debranded and sold for much cheaper. It makes buying parts for BMWs pretty affordable actually. Labor is expensive though, so it pays to be able to DIY stuff. Beyond this, there's excellent aftermarket support for BMW tuning parts. I don't dabble in this as much but a lot of the modern BMW motors (n54, b58, s55) make amazing tuning power. There's an article titled something like, how to build a 500hp 335i for $1500, which speaks to how cheap it is to tune the cars.

Base performance is nice because almost all (afaik?) the models are either RWD or AWD. Even the pedestrian models like the 328i and 330i have enough power to be fun. To me, the e46 330i is a great value <10k car because it makes good power stock and they're pretty cheap, as well as RWD. The transmissions are strong on most models because they make good stock power, and it's really common to find manual models, which is another big one. Probably one of the few better value cars on paper for the money would be like the 350z. This means that there's a lot of viable models that can double as cheap sports cars, and they're easy to find. M3s used to be cheap too, but people found their value. They're one of the few cars that comes with ITBs from the factory, at least on the e36, e46 and e9x m3, which makes them super fun to drive.

And finally, since they're supposed to be luxury cars, if you shop carefully for a high trim model you can get a bunch of nice features included with your sports car. My 135i has stuff like heated seats, insulated soft top, red leather seats, backup sensors, and just stuff that's nice to have. About reliability, it vastly varies from model to model, and mostly depends on the engine. My n54 is a pain in the ass even though it makes good power. I'd say the e36 m3 is probably the most impressive in terms of reliability, it was high performance for its time (still is arguably? just doesn't make great power these days) but they last ridiculously long. Saw one on craigslist a few weeks ago with 350k miles, original motor. I literally can't find one with less than 150k miles.

I'm not married to the brand at all, I don't think my next car will be a BMW simply because it'd be boring to have two cars of the same brand. The eclipse is looking sweet by the way, I'm pretty sure everyone brushed it off just because it's FWD but the 4g63 is awesome.

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 2164
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3062 on: Sat, 20 November 2021, 01:38:47 »
Car life updates: ate up my clutch the other month and the car is finally finished at the shop so excited to get it back today :) got a lightened flywheel which hopefully doesn't end up biting me in the tail, and talked to my neighbor yesterday who offered to let me drive their 911 carrera s once a month since it sits in their garage too much...lol

What sort of car have you got again? I wish somebody had ever offered to just let me drive a sports car at all. That 350z was the first one. I'm jealous.

I think the Eclipse's clutch has over 100 thousand miles on it already, and it does engage pretty high. Something's slipping for sure (if I give it a lot of torque), but I know the input shaft bearings go out on those as well. I sort of want to wait until I can find an LSD for it, but Quaife discontinued them for that car some time ago.

When the original clutch went on my Saturn SC2 around 170k I literally still drove it to the shop by feathering the clutch and upshifting if I got enough inertia on a decline. If I gave it much of any gas at all it would just slip. I drove it with no breaks 20 miles to a family friend's place (who is a mechanic) as well once. Pretty hard to stop a stick shift from getting where it needs to go even when things break.

I have a 135i convertible. It has the N54 motor which is notorious for being a great tuner motor but has a ton of issues. I got the shop to do my clutch since doing a clutch job sounded kind of miserable to me. Was told the oil filter housing gasket was starting to leak again (last owner replaced this before) which is a $1000 labor job but I think I'll knock it out myself in the next month or two. Clutch went out on my car at 70k, LOL. I drive it like an idiot, no joke. Well, I mentioned that I got a lightened single mass flywheel installed with the clutch job. Turns out the sound is horrendous lol. I don't totally regret it but if I had to do it over again I'd just go with the stock dual mass. This thing definitely makes the car sounds like it's broken. Think the takeaway is that you shouldn't get a lightened flywheel unless you really need one for high hp application. Maybe you can look into whether a master/slave cylinder bleed would help your clutch feel?

LSDs aren't cheap but they're sweet. I've really come to appreciate cars that have LSDs stock. I love the civic si for that reason. I feel like it's a totally liveable car that can be driven super hard with a motor very similar to what the S2000 has, for half the price. I doubt I'd get one for my car since they're expensive, but eventually I'll get a car that does, when the time is right..

I don't know anything about BMWs. How do you like it? I always liked how some of their roadsters looked. Reported repair costs and difficulty in servicing always shied me away.

$1,000 in labor for a gasket for the oil filter housing?  :eek: Is it really hard to get at?

Well, what do you mean by driving like an idiot? Burning up the clutch for launches, inefficient shifts or just driving like a maniac? I do the latter for some smiles myself. I wasn't exactly gentle with that SC2 in the 63k-ish miles I put on it since I got it before that clutch went.

Maybe you just need to put a nice Magnaflow exhaust on the beamer so you can't hear the flywheel anymore.  ;D

Nobody has looked at the Eclipse at all since I bought it. I know my SC2 inside and out just because I have owned it so long and there are comprehensive videos on their quirks and repairs on Youtube, many of which I have done. I want to take the Eclipse to our family friend to go over the whole thing. It has various things to address. Cruise control doesn't even work. I replaced the click spring myself, but it still doesn't work, and I'm no expert on car electronics. I just know it isn't a blown fuse.

Eclipse GT has massive torque steer, even with the wider tires. I'm thinking an LSD might even help with that, besides also wasting less energy getting going and hopefully getting better traction overall.

I didn't know the Civic SI had an LSD, that's pretty awesome.

Hmm, BMWs are pretty good actually. Don't love having a flashy car but the BMW isn't too flashy in the bay area, which is tesla central anyways. I think what makes BMWs good is the parts availability, base performance level, and features. As for parts, there's two great suppliers, FCP euro and ECS tuning that have plenty of OEM parts and parts from the manufacturer that are debranded and sold for much cheaper. It makes buying parts for BMWs pretty affordable actually. Labor is expensive though, so it pays to be able to DIY stuff. Beyond this, there's excellent aftermarket support for BMW tuning parts. I don't dabble in this as much but a lot of the modern BMW motors (n54, b58, s55) make amazing tuning power. There's an article titled something like, how to build a 500hp 335i for $1500, which speaks to how cheap it is to tune the cars.

Labor is more expensive than other cars? It can already be a pain to work on cars that are considered pretty serviceable. Has everything been pretty accessible? It is good that there's debranded parts that aren't insanely priced. Apparently there are some BMWs that are easy to LS swap as well? lol

Base performance is nice because almost all (afaik?) the models are either RWD or AWD. Even the pedestrian models like the 328i and 330i have enough power to be fun. To me, the e46 330i is a great value <10k car because it makes good power stock and they're pretty cheap, as well as RWD. The transmissions are strong on most models because they make good stock power, and it's really common to find manual models, which is another big one. Probably one of the few better value cars on paper for the money would be like the 350z. This means that there's a lot of viable models that can double as cheap sports cars, and they're easy to find. M3s used to be cheap too, but people found their value. They're one of the few cars that comes with ITBs from the factory, at least on the e36, e46 and e9x m3, which makes them super fun to drive.

I don't think anybody even likes RWD in this area, with all of the snow and ice in the winter. I have only briefly driven a few RWD vehicles, before they went completely extinct in most standard vehicle classes. It is getting hard to find anything manual here anymore. I had to google what an ITB even is. I hadn't heard of it before. Definitely interesting.

And finally, since they're supposed to be luxury cars, if you shop carefully for a high trim model you can get a bunch of nice features included with your sports car. My 135i has stuff like heated seats, insulated soft top, red leather seats, backup sensors, and just stuff that's nice to have. About reliability, it vastly varies from model to model, and mostly depends on the engine. My n54 is a pain in the ass even though it makes good power. I'd say the e36 m3 is probably the most impressive in terms of reliability, it was high performance for its time (still is arguably? just doesn't make great power these days) but they last ridiculously long. Saw one on craigslist a few weeks ago with 350k miles, original motor. I literally can't find one with less than 150k miles.

My Saturn has leather seats. I kind of wish it didn't. You really have to baby it to keep it from falling apart, and it is really cold in the winter (never had heated seats). What do you mean by insulated soft top? You would think insulation would make it really thick and unwieldy when trying to store and deploy, but I imagine that's not the case? Backup sensors might be nice with some convertibles. I know visibility on the Eclipse is very poor with the top up. I put a backup camera in right away though and have it set up so I could turn it on when just driving as well if I wanted to. 350k is no slouch, that's for sure.

I'm not married to the brand at all, I don't think my next car will be a BMW simply because it'd be boring to have two cars of the same brand. The eclipse is looking sweet by the way, I'm pretty sure everyone brushed it off just because it's FWD but the 4g63 is awesome.

What would you get next if not a BMW? I don't plan on ever parting with the Saturn or Eclipse. lol. Those 3rd gen Saturn engines last literally forever. The 4g Eclipse GT has a v6 6g75 motor, pretty comparable to the 350z. They should have kept making them all AWD, that's for sure. My coworker's Tesla really demonstrates to me what some proper AWD can do.

Offline Sniping

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3063 on: Sun, 02 January 2022, 20:19:32 »
Car life updates: ate up my clutch the other month and the car is finally finished at the shop so excited to get it back today :) got a lightened flywheel which hopefully doesn't end up biting me in the tail, and talked to my neighbor yesterday who offered to let me drive their 911 carrera s once a month since it sits in their garage too much...lol

What sort of car have you got again? I wish somebody had ever offered to just let me drive a sports car at all. That 350z was the first one. I'm jealous.

I think the Eclipse's clutch has over 100 thousand miles on it already, and it does engage pretty high. Something's slipping for sure (if I give it a lot of torque), but I know the input shaft bearings go out on those as well. I sort of want to wait until I can find an LSD for it, but Quaife discontinued them for that car some time ago.

When the original clutch went on my Saturn SC2 around 170k I literally still drove it to the shop by feathering the clutch and upshifting if I got enough inertia on a decline. If I gave it much of any gas at all it would just slip. I drove it with no breaks 20 miles to a family friend's place (who is a mechanic) as well once. Pretty hard to stop a stick shift from getting where it needs to go even when things break.

I have a 135i convertible. It has the N54 motor which is notorious for being a great tuner motor but has a ton of issues. I got the shop to do my clutch since doing a clutch job sounded kind of miserable to me. Was told the oil filter housing gasket was starting to leak again (last owner replaced this before) which is a $1000 labor job but I think I'll knock it out myself in the next month or two. Clutch went out on my car at 70k, LOL. I drive it like an idiot, no joke. Well, I mentioned that I got a lightened single mass flywheel installed with the clutch job. Turns out the sound is horrendous lol. I don't totally regret it but if I had to do it over again I'd just go with the stock dual mass. This thing definitely makes the car sounds like it's broken. Think the takeaway is that you shouldn't get a lightened flywheel unless you really need one for high hp application. Maybe you can look into whether a master/slave cylinder bleed would help your clutch feel?

LSDs aren't cheap but they're sweet. I've really come to appreciate cars that have LSDs stock. I love the civic si for that reason. I feel like it's a totally liveable car that can be driven super hard with a motor very similar to what the S2000 has, for half the price. I doubt I'd get one for my car since they're expensive, but eventually I'll get a car that does, when the time is right..

I don't know anything about BMWs. How do you like it? I always liked how some of their roadsters looked. Reported repair costs and difficulty in servicing always shied me away.

$1,000 in labor for a gasket for the oil filter housing?  :eek: Is it really hard to get at?

Well, what do you mean by driving like an idiot? Burning up the clutch for launches, inefficient shifts or just driving like a maniac? I do the latter for some smiles myself. I wasn't exactly gentle with that SC2 in the 63k-ish miles I put on it since I got it before that clutch went.

Maybe you just need to put a nice Magnaflow exhaust on the beamer so you can't hear the flywheel anymore.  ;D

Nobody has looked at the Eclipse at all since I bought it. I know my SC2 inside and out just because I have owned it so long and there are comprehensive videos on their quirks and repairs on Youtube, many of which I have done. I want to take the Eclipse to our family friend to go over the whole thing. It has various things to address. Cruise control doesn't even work. I replaced the click spring myself, but it still doesn't work, and I'm no expert on car electronics. I just know it isn't a blown fuse.

Eclipse GT has massive torque steer, even with the wider tires. I'm thinking an LSD might even help with that, besides also wasting less energy getting going and hopefully getting better traction overall.

I didn't know the Civic SI had an LSD, that's pretty awesome.

Hmm, BMWs are pretty good actually. Don't love having a flashy car but the BMW isn't too flashy in the bay area, which is tesla central anyways. I think what makes BMWs good is the parts availability, base performance level, and features. As for parts, there's two great suppliers, FCP euro and ECS tuning that have plenty of OEM parts and parts from the manufacturer that are debranded and sold for much cheaper. It makes buying parts for BMWs pretty affordable actually. Labor is expensive though, so it pays to be able to DIY stuff. Beyond this, there's excellent aftermarket support for BMW tuning parts. I don't dabble in this as much but a lot of the modern BMW motors (n54, b58, s55) make amazing tuning power. There's an article titled something like, how to build a 500hp 335i for $1500, which speaks to how cheap it is to tune the cars.

Labor is more expensive than other cars? It can already be a pain to work on cars that are considered pretty serviceable. Has everything been pretty accessible? It is good that there's debranded parts that aren't insanely priced. Apparently there are some BMWs that are easy to LS swap as well? lol

Base performance is nice because almost all (afaik?) the models are either RWD or AWD. Even the pedestrian models like the 328i and 330i have enough power to be fun. To me, the e46 330i is a great value <10k car because it makes good power stock and they're pretty cheap, as well as RWD. The transmissions are strong on most models because they make good stock power, and it's really common to find manual models, which is another big one. Probably one of the few better value cars on paper for the money would be like the 350z. This means that there's a lot of viable models that can double as cheap sports cars, and they're easy to find. M3s used to be cheap too, but people found their value. They're one of the few cars that comes with ITBs from the factory, at least on the e36, e46 and e9x m3, which makes them super fun to drive.

I don't think anybody even likes RWD in this area, with all of the snow and ice in the winter. I have only briefly driven a few RWD vehicles, before they went completely extinct in most standard vehicle classes. It is getting hard to find anything manual here anymore. I had to google what an ITB even is. I hadn't heard of it before. Definitely interesting.

And finally, since they're supposed to be luxury cars, if you shop carefully for a high trim model you can get a bunch of nice features included with your sports car. My 135i has stuff like heated seats, insulated soft top, red leather seats, backup sensors, and just stuff that's nice to have. About reliability, it vastly varies from model to model, and mostly depends on the engine. My n54 is a pain in the ass even though it makes good power. I'd say the e36 m3 is probably the most impressive in terms of reliability, it was high performance for its time (still is arguably? just doesn't make great power these days) but they last ridiculously long. Saw one on craigslist a few weeks ago with 350k miles, original motor. I literally can't find one with less than 150k miles.

My Saturn has leather seats. I kind of wish it didn't. You really have to baby it to keep it from falling apart, and it is really cold in the winter (never had heated seats). What do you mean by insulated soft top? You would think insulation would make it really thick and unwieldy when trying to store and deploy, but I imagine that's not the case? Backup sensors might be nice with some convertibles. I know visibility on the Eclipse is very poor with the top up. I put a backup camera in right away though and have it set up so I could turn it on when just driving as well if I wanted to. 350k is no slouch, that's for sure.

I'm not married to the brand at all, I don't think my next car will be a BMW simply because it'd be boring to have two cars of the same brand. The eclipse is looking sweet by the way, I'm pretty sure everyone brushed it off just because it's FWD but the 4g63 is awesome.

What would you get next if not a BMW? I don't plan on ever parting with the Saturn or Eclipse. lol. Those 3rd gen Saturn engines last literally forever. The 4g Eclipse GT has a v6 6g75 motor, pretty comparable to the 350z. They should have kept making them all AWD, that's for sure. My coworker's Tesla really demonstrates to me what some proper AWD can do.

Whoops, totally left this thread unattended  :))

Where to start...labor. Labor is usually more expensive. The guy I go to used to charge $140 an hour, ouch. It's $170 an hour now, ha. Granted, he bills less hours than other shops do and is probably one of the best BMW mechanics in my area. I feel like with cheaper labor it can be as cheap as $100 an hour. Fortunately parts are in extreme abundance for BMW cars, like really good parts too. You can choose OEM parts, OE parts (same as OEM but they scratch the BMW label off and charge you half the price), and aftermarket parts too. It's pretty great in that regard. There's some jobs that you can do yourself that aren't entirely miserable to handle, and that'll save you a good buck.

About the RWD thing in the winter, I agree it seems pretty sketchy to me, but RWD is good fun for performance driving and sliding around. If you're really feeling like a goon you can slide around in the snow in the winter. Seems pretty damn risky to me though, but there's some maniacs out there that live for RWD snow drifting. There's a pretty solid video I saw recently, dude is just taking a smoke while drifting with one hand. https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPd63AN3U/ Anyways, I do see most people pack away their sports cars for the winter, even if it's AWD. Probably to preserve it from salted roads and extreme conditions (need different oil under a certain temp for example). And ITBs are great. A lot of Miata guys and high performance cars have them. It makes the car feel really nice so you owe it to yourself to try it sometime when you have a chance. It kind of feels more Tesla like if you happen to have sat in your coworker's Tesla before that you mentioned. It's definitely not like 100% instant power like an EV but the response is just better and you can feel it when you're driving, especially on down shifts.

I think the more I use my leather seats the more I realize I don't love them. They're nice when it's new, but there's a few problems. One main one is that most leather seats wear down pretty poorly. Mine have definitely hardened up and aren't as supple as they should be. Some of them get really saggy which also looks gross. I think there's few leather seats that stay in good condition, one that I can identify being the quilted leather seats in high end Audis, like a 2013 Audi S7. I think the quilting keeps the leather taut but also soft somehow. Seems nice, seems expensive too. The insulated soft top is nice. It's just a layer on the inside of the soft top with some down fill like material that insulates the car's interior. Definitely seems like a decent innovation to me, no downsides as far as I can tell. Exterior looks the same. My visibility is also trash with the top up but I think most convertibles will suffer from that problem.

Hmm, what next if not the BMW? Honestly, I'm shopping around for cars and I think it's going to be a BMW. I'm probably going to get an E92 M3 to replace the 135i. Unfortunately, with the rise of all car prices you don't get much bang for your buck anymore with used cars. I think I'm set on the M3 but other great contenders that I would have considered would probably be the Honda S2000, new 2022 Subaru BRZ, NC Miata (Used to think they were super ugly but I'm on board with it these days), 8th gen Civic Si. The problem is that a lot of these cars benefit from power mods that are illegal in California. The NC Miata benefits largely from the 2.5L duratec swap and the 8th gen civic si is much better with a K24/K20 frankenstein swap. They can both be had for reasonably cheap in a complete car but it's all illegal in CA, which is pretty lame. That leaves the car underpowered and it would probably leave me feeling like I downgraded more than anything since my current car is 300hp.

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3064 on: Sun, 02 January 2022, 22:32:40 »
Rode in a Tesla Model S the other day, what the actual **** is that acceleration? What the hell! You can barely even tell before you are hitting 70 in a parking lot cause the thing glides silently like a 4700lb steel pterodactyl. If anything, I feel exponentially LESS safe as a pedestrian knowing firsthand what these things are capable of.

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3065 on: Tue, 04 January 2022, 14:34:06 »
Well I guess my dream of vehicle ownership coming true this year is dead. Thanks economy!
All I ever wanted since I was like 4 was a car, and now I'm almost 40 and still don't own one. My life truly is one big joke.

Offline yui

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3066 on: Tue, 04 January 2022, 15:32:35 »
where are you from? i have now my 2nd car, and at least in France the 1st one was a nice-ish old car that i got for 800 euros (i overpaid about 300 euros for it but back then i did not know), my 2nd is a newer car that i got for 700 euros a few days back.
if you want to know my 1st one was a Citroen BX 1.4 from 91 and the 2nd is a Nissan Micra 0.9 from 99.
i know i could have gotten both for cheaper but for the BX i did not know better and for the Micra it was my sister's 1st car, as well as a few of my cousin's, and i only paid for the repairs it needed.
i feel you could get a cheap car it you are not too picky in Europe, and if i remember correctly you are in the UK, so close.
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3067 on: Tue, 04 January 2022, 15:41:21 »
US in a major coastal city, prices are all insane. It's actually far cheaper to get a car shipped from another state than to get one from any local dealer, which is crazy to me.

Offline yui

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3068 on: Tue, 04 January 2022, 16:44:01 »
remembered wrong, sorry, but in the land of freedom i though you could drive pretty much anything as long as it has a registration plate, few wheels and an engine :) at least it is what youtube videos seems to show
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3069 on: Tue, 04 January 2022, 17:09:22 »
In the US today, almost any sort of decent car that does not need immediate repairs will probably bring about $2K.

Unless you have access to a friend or relative who just wants to get rid of it.

"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline yui

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3070 on: Wed, 05 January 2022, 04:53:52 »
you are living in a crazy place :)
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline Sniping

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3071 on: Wed, 05 January 2022, 17:13:23 »
Well I guess my dream of vehicle ownership coming true this year is dead. Thanks economy!
All I ever wanted since I was like 4 was a car, and now I'm almost 40 and still don't own one. My life truly is one big joke.

If you keep some money saved and there's a downturn, there will be cars coming up for sale at good prices. You'll get a car for sure, don't give up the idea so easily. There's like a bajillion cars out there, and there are still deals out there in the sea of overpriced turds even today

Offline jennyluce

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3072 on: Mon, 17 January 2022, 07:29:41 »
I am in love with 1969 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28



Offline jennyluce

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3073 on: Fri, 21 January 2022, 03:54:12 »
i just saw the movie "ford vs Ferrari" that's really awesome movie for car lover's.

Offline smarmar

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3074 on: Mon, 07 February 2022, 13:42:13 »
Rode in a Tesla Model S the other day, what the actual **** is that acceleration? What the hell! You can barely even tell before you are hitting 70 in a parking lot cause the thing glides silently like a 4700lb steel pterodactyl. If anything, I feel exponentially LESS safe as a pedestrian knowing firsthand what these things are capable of.
I haven't ridden in/driven one but there are a lot hanging around where I live. I peaked into one and it gave me the cold sweats. I would absolutely loathe the computerized interface, being a manual-trans owner and lover of buttons, knobs and switches. I'll hear one going in reverse in my parking lot and the thing sounds like a Jetsons mobile! "rrrreeeeEEEEEEEEEEE!" Your safety concerns are warranted because you can barely hear a battery-powered car running, basically just the tires crunching on asphalt.
1992 IBM Model M | Tesoro Durandal[Browns] | Hi-Tek Series 725[Space Invaders] | Tandy Enhanced[Sliders] | Dell Quiet Keys | Mitsumi[AT]

Offline iri

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3075 on: Tue, 08 February 2022, 08:24:47 »
I would absolutely loathe the computerized interface, being a (...) lover of buttons, knobs and switches.
Amen.

I drove the newest Golf recently. Didn't like the computerized interface at all. And Tesla's dashboard makes me nauseous.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline smarmar

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3076 on: Tue, 08 February 2022, 12:03:13 »
I would absolutely loathe the computerized interface, being a (...) lover of buttons, knobs and switches.
Amen.

I drove the newest Golf recently. Didn't like the computerized interface at all. And Tesla's dashboard makes me nauseous.

Aww, that news about the new Golf makes me sad. I'm on my second Golf now (current is 2011, previous was 1996). I love(d) them both. It's a shame that the joy is being taken out of the driving experience for the sake of convenience or price or "safety" or whatever. I guess the average folk doesn't care as long as they don't have to put any extra work into driving :p
1992 IBM Model M | Tesoro Durandal[Browns] | Hi-Tek Series 725[Space Invaders] | Tandy Enhanced[Sliders] | Dell Quiet Keys | Mitsumi[AT]

Offline iri

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3077 on: Wed, 09 February 2022, 07:56:26 »
Oh, and also, I've spent about a day on mountain roads of Gran Canaria and didn't like the Golf's driving experience at all. Though maybe it's just me -- I read all the rave reviews from car journalists and was expecting much more than I felt I got.


(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline yui

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3078 on: Sun, 13 February 2022, 05:28:46 »
i bought a 2nd car to relieve my old 91 BX, but so far could only drive it a few days between random issues with it... while the old one is reliable as a rock. i am starting to doubt my decision :)
(the 2nd car is a 2000 Nissan Micra)
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3079 on: Thu, 24 February 2022, 10:25:09 »
Whoops, totally left this thread unattended  :))

So did I.

Where to start...labor. Labor is usually more expensive. The guy I go to used to charge $140 an hour, ouch. It's $170 an hour now, ha. Granted, he bills less hours than other shops do and is probably one of the best BMW mechanics in my area. I feel like with cheaper labor it can be as cheap as $100 an hour. Fortunately parts are in extreme abundance for BMW cars, like really good parts too. You can choose OEM parts, OE parts (same as OEM but they scratch the BMW label off and charge you half the price), and aftermarket parts too. It's pretty great in that regard. There's some jobs that you can do yourself that aren't entirely miserable to handle, and that'll save you a good buck.

I try to do as much as I can myself, unless I think I don't have the tools/skills/space and/or time/opportunity to do it. The Saturn is really easy to work on and there are video tutorials on almost every component that might need replacement on Youtube. I know even the U.S. brands are becoming a nightmare with all of the random crap they keep jamming into the engine bays.


About the RWD thing in the winter, I agree it seems pretty sketchy to me, but RWD is good fun for performance driving and sliding around. If you're really feeling like a goon you can slide around in the snow in the winter. Seems pretty damn risky to me though, but there's some maniacs out there that live for RWD snow drifting. There's a pretty solid video I saw recently, dude is just taking a smoke while drifting with one hand. https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPd63AN3U/ Anyways, I do see most people pack away their sports cars for the winter, even if it's AWD. Probably to preserve it from salted roads and extreme conditions (need different oil under a certain temp for example). And ITBs are great. A lot of Miata guys and high performance cars have them. It makes the car feel really nice so you owe it to yourself to try it sometime when you have a chance. It kind of feels more Tesla like if you happen to have sat in your coworker's Tesla before that you mentioned. It's definitely not like 100% instant power like an EV but the response is just better and you can feel it when you're driving, especially on down shifts.

I can slide around in the snow in the winter with or without RWD, lol. It just isn't as fun without ... when planning to. Stick shift is a godsend for winter driving. I always laugh when somebody brings it up as a negative. Downshifting to control deceleration and starting in a higher gear for lower torque is endlessly useful. I drive on glare ice and through blizzards with bald tires in clown cars at high speed all of the time with careful shifting and preventing sudden changes in direction and inertia. I haven't been driving the Eclipse in the winter and don't plan to if I can help it. Definitely a moot point for people who have a beater winter car to drive.

I may look into ITBs then. I'll guess that there's nothing tailor-made for the 4G Eclipse GT anyway. I don't think they're very common cars to begin with. The hunt is still on to even find a LSD for it.


I think the more I use my leather seats the more I realize I don't love them. They're nice when it's new, but there's a few problems. One main one is that most leather seats wear down pretty poorly. Mine have definitely hardened up and aren't as supple as they should be. Some of them get really saggy which also looks gross. I think there's few leather seats that stay in good condition, one that I can identify being the quilted leather seats in high end Audis, like a 2013 Audi S7. I think the quilting keeps the leather taut but also soft somehow. Seems nice, seems expensive too.

I use Lexol conditioner and cleaner for my Saturn's seats. If I put in the effort to really work the conditioner into the leather, it usually softens it right up. If I have been too lazy to condition it for a while, it takes multiple applications. It has saved it from any further deterioration since I purchased the car more than a decade ago. There's basically no benefit to having leather seats though besides sliding in and out, and the smell (if you like it). Maybe they'll last even longer than fabric if you take care of it ... but you don't have to take care of fabric.


The insulated soft top is nice. It's just a layer on the inside of the soft top with some down fill like material that insulates the car's interior. Definitely seems like a decent innovation to me, no downsides as far as I can tell. Exterior looks the same. My visibility is also trash with the top up but I think most convertibles will suffer from that problem.

Now I'm curious if mine has that or not. I know the top was recently replaced before I bought the car. I did drive it through fall and into the start of winter and I didn't have any trouble keeping the interior warm in bitter Wisconsin weather.


Hmm, what next if not the BMW? Honestly, I'm shopping around for cars and I think it's going to be a BMW. I'm probably going to get an E92 M3 to replace the 135i. Unfortunately, with the rise of all car prices you don't get much bang for your buck anymore with used cars. I think I'm set on the M3 but other great contenders that I would have considered would probably be the Honda S2000, new 2022 Subaru BRZ, NC Miata (Used to think they were super ugly but I'm on board with it these days), 8th gen Civic Si. The problem is that a lot of these cars benefit from power mods that are illegal in California. The NC Miata benefits largely from the 2.5L duratec swap and the 8th gen civic si is much better with a K24/K20 frankenstein swap. They can both be had for reasonably cheap in a complete car but it's all illegal in CA, which is pretty lame. That leaves the car underpowered and it would probably leave me feeling like I downgraded more than anything since my current car is 300hp.

Used cars were nuts even before the pandemic. Now it is totally insane, especially for stick shifts. Wisconsin is much worse than a lot of neighboring states too, probably in no small part to winter road conditions. Almost makes me wonder if it is even worth buying used anymore, at least here.

People always want a fortune for S2000s here. I always liked the Miata myself, and they're pretty affordable for a reliable and fun convertible. What about LS swapping a Miata?  ;D Also illegal? I have heard they're one of the easiest cars to do it in. I know that's what I would want to do to one.

Rode in a Tesla Model S the other day, what the actual **** is that acceleration? What the hell! You can barely even tell before you are hitting 70 in a parking lot cause the thing glides silently like a 4700lb steel pterodactyl. If anything, I feel exponentially LESS safe as a pedestrian knowing firsthand what these things are capable of.
I haven't ridden in/driven one but there are a lot hanging around where I live. I peaked into one and it gave me the cold sweats. I would absolutely loathe the computerized interface, being a manual-trans owner and lover of buttons, knobs and switches. I'll hear one going in reverse in my parking lot and the thing sounds like a Jetsons mobile! "rrrreeeeEEEEEEEEEEE!" Your safety concerns are warranted because you can barely hear a battery-powered car running, basically just the tires crunching on asphalt.

I agree totally on the interiors of these newer cars. I don't even like anything much past the mid 2000s. You won't help but smile driving or riding in a Model S when there's a lead foot involved. Free on-demand roller coaster rides without having to go to a theme park.


you are living in a crazy place :)

"Cash for clunkers" subsidized the destruction of thousands of perfectly good used cars, ironically making affordable transportation out-of-reach for a lot of people. I believe the idea was to help people of lesser means to purchase a new car instead of sticking with their beaters. The problem was that even subsidies did not nearly offset the massive investment that a new car is ... and then there's depreciation. I think that literally only people of means who already regularly bought new vehicles really benefited while those who didn't already have comfortable lives could have been priced out of the market entirely. Prices have never been the same since then and the pandemic only made things worse. I'll complain about that nonsense program until the day I die, but I imagine places like Wisconsin where rust takes more cars than mechanical failure were hit much harder by this than others.

Just watching a little footage of what politicians and media networks say about finances, even before breaking down the real-world implications of their policies, shows that they're clearly totally out-of-touch with reality and have way too much disposable income to even be able to empathize with the common man.

I am in love with 1969 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28

Also one of my favorite classic cars. Alas, I am not rich.

Offline yui

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3080 on: Fri, 11 March 2022, 07:37:04 »
well i crashed my favorite car, my 91 Citroen BX, went into a ditch at less than 50 because i did not see the road went from tarmac to gravel... just learnt that fixing it would require at least 5 times what the car is worth...
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Offline Maledicted

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3081 on: Fri, 11 March 2022, 07:56:58 »
well i crashed my favorite car, my 91 Citroen BX, went into a ditch at less than 50 because i did not see the road went from tarmac to gravel... just learnt that fixing it would require at least 5 times what the car is worth...

It transitioned from pavement to gravel ... in the middle of a stretch of road? Were they similarly colored somehow? Around here if a road is gravel or dirt, it is usually some middle-of-nowhere single lane road that may or may not have any meaningful travel purpose for people who don't have a home or business directly on it.

I don't think I have ever found a road that just changes from one to the other, unless it is something like cement to blacktop. They should have a giant neon sign there if they're going to do something like that.

Sorry to hear that. I guess that just means you have a good excuse to try something new now.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3082 on: Fri, 11 March 2022, 08:40:42 »

a road that just changes from one to the other


Out in rural areas it happens, either because they paved just so far and ran out of time, materials, and/or money, or else because sections of paving deteriorated and were "repaired" with gravel only.

BTW, if it was actual "tarmac" (ie tar macadamized stone) it is more difficult to install and much more difficult to repair than ordinary asphalt

https://ethomasdevelopments.ie/difference-between-tarmac-and-asphalt.html
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline yui

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3083 on: Fri, 11 March 2022, 09:16:35 »
it was at 4am and in the small one lane road, the way the road was made made it pretty much the same color as the gravel, as it was a cheap gravel poured over binder construction, but i should have seen it, and yeah i forgot the word asphalt, i am not even sure this count as it.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3084 on: Fri, 11 March 2022, 09:30:40 »
In the US, many people often use the almost-meaningless term "blacktop" to refer to any non-rigid paving (ie non-concrete) but nowadays probably 98%+ of that is asphalt.

Although it takes a sizeable (and expensive) equipment to mix and spread asphalt, it is usually the most cost-effective method paving. And since it is "flexible" it does not crack and spall as much as "rigid" concrete.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macadam
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3085 on: Fri, 11 March 2022, 14:07:57 »

a road that just changes from one to the other


Out in rural areas it happens, either because they paved just so far and ran out of time, materials, and/or money, or else because sections of paving deteriorated and were "repaired" with gravel only.

BTW, if it was actual "tarmac" (ie tar macadamized stone) it is more difficult to install and much more difficult to repair than ordinary asphalt

https://ethomasdevelopments.ie/difference-between-tarmac-and-asphalt.html

I live in a city of 30k, which is surrounded for miles by farms and countryside. The closest city of a comparable size is at least 10 miles away. In any other direction the distance is much greater. The freeway literally ends at my town and every other road in or out is a county/rural road. This is Wisconsin, so the whole state is mostly rural ... with cities basically just cut out of one giant forest. If you can get a few stories up, the city itself is indistinguishable from forest ... which is all you can see in all directions. I have never seen a transition like that in the middle of a road that would ordinarily be used as a thoroughfare for people passing through. Plenty of gravel or dirt roads around, but they always begin and end at a crossroads.

I haven't even seen it way up north near moose country, not that I make it up there that often.

In the US, many people often use the almost-meaningless term "blacktop" to refer to any non-rigid paving (ie non-concrete) but nowadays probably 98%+ of that is asphalt.

Although it takes a sizeable (and expensive) equipment to mix and spread asphalt, it is usually the most cost-effective method paving. And since it is "flexible" it does not crack and spall as much as "rigid" concrete.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macadam


Have you worked in construction, or have you just done research on the subject? I'm sure you're right. I think the home I grew up in still has a blacktop driveway, so that probably didn't help the development of my vernacular.

We like to use as much concrete as we can up here. The ground has to be perfectly settled and level before laying it, but then it lasts much longer than asphalt here. The snowplows tear up the asphalt, water seeps in, the water expands when it freezes and starts splitting the asphalt apart. There are asphalt roads here that have basically become cobblestone as a result and properly laid concrete slabs of about the same age that are almost completely intact.

Offline Sniping

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3086 on: Fri, 11 March 2022, 15:59:49 »
Geez that's terrible, I'm glad you're alright. Well, at least now you have the opportunity to own another car!

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3087 on: Fri, 11 March 2022, 18:08:38 »

Have you worked in construction

We like to use as much concrete as we can up here. The ground has to be perfectly settled and level before laying it, but then it lasts much longer than asphalt here. The snowplows tear up the asphalt, water seeps in, the water expands when it freezes and starts splitting the asphalt apart. There are asphalt roads here that have basically become cobblestone as a result and properly laid concrete slabs of about the same age that are almost completely intact.


Yes, I have spent most of my adult life in construction - in the Southeast where weather is much more kind.

Personally, I love concrete and would prefer it in almost any circumstance. That said, as in most construction, the quality of the job equals the quality of the preparation.

Any paving requires a good, strong, thick, WELL-DRAINED base. A good road should have several inches of gravel, resting on firm stable soil under the surfacing material.

Good concrete has steel reinforcing and appropriate expansion joints. With those components it can sometimes survive being shorted in other areas, including less-than-optimal bases.

Asphalt needs a good solid base and without it will behave as you describe. The cheapest and fastest way to pave is to put down a (?) layer of gravel and spread a (?) layer of asphalt over it. Unless those layers are each multiple inches thick it will fail pretty quickly in a cold climate.

"Sunk cost" may be coming into play in your area. If someone goes to the trouble and expense to prepare a good proper base, the incremental extra cost of concrete surface over asphalt is not so great.

In warmer climates that don't see as much freezing and heave, but have greater summer heat, the flexibility of asphalt becomes more advantageous.
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline dieudonnecarries

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3088 on: Fri, 14 October 2022, 16:22:45 »
My favorite is just Skyline. Although at the mention of Skyline, most people remember a wide coupe exclusively with four red circles of rear lights, the car was also produced in a sedan body. Although in such kind, it somewhat loses in aggressiveness and also in gracefulness, characteristic features of appearance together with in-line "six" cannot be taken away from it. By the way, those ready to give up an effective appearance for practicality can look at related models such as Laurel and Stagea. One can have a look at the dealer https://www.jdmbuysell.com/dealers/. These sedans and station wagons are not identical to the Skyline technically. Still, they also got six-cylinder engines and even all-wheel drive.
« Last Edit: Sat, 15 October 2022, 00:55:39 by dieudonnecarries »

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3089 on: Fri, 14 October 2022, 17:13:08 »
Almost 40, and have still never owned a vehicle despite desperately wanting one, being super into cars, and having my life made actively worse by public transit.
It's like a universal joke at this point. How does everyone have/afford a car but me? I just don't understand.

Offline iri

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3090 on: Fri, 14 October 2022, 17:28:57 »
I wasn’t allowed to rent a Z4 because I’m under 40

WTF Topcar
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3091 on: Fri, 14 October 2022, 17:40:57 »
Buying a good used simple and easy to repair vehicle is the cheapest and most efficient way to go, and assume that you might not get more than 3-5 years out of it. If you want to drop some or all of a year's salary on a new car, then you can avoid almost all repair headaches for several years to come.

Over the past 25 years I have had 3 Camrys and 2 Odysseys, all bought for around $5K each with 120K-150K miles, which carried me to well over 200K miles before a repair job was required that was just not worth it. Those 2 models receive my highest recommendation, and my daughter has a 2007 Sonata that has served her very well.

In years past your neighborhood mechanic would check out your prospective purchase for free (in expectation of a continuing stream of repair jobs) but these days you should probably expect to spend $100 or so for a thorough inspection - well worth losing if it helps prevent you from getting stuck with a lemon.

Unless you are driving a new or like-new car costing tens of thousands of dollars, it is imperative that you find a good local mechanic that you can trust.
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline Pretendo

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3092 on: Sat, 15 October 2022, 13:39:17 »
Here's a pic of my Miata with some other happy little cars:



I bought it mid-pandemic, thinking it would be a quick one year "learn my lesson" type project, but it turns out that Miatas are about the best cheap fun you can get out of any car.  They make pathetic power, but corner on a dime and can be repaired with basic hand tools. It's also kind of fun to rev out the little chainsaw engine as far as it'll go and still be well within the speed limit.

I'll probably be holding onto it for at least a couple of years. They have no business being as fun as they are.
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Offline yui

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3093 on: Sat, 15 October 2022, 13:50:40 »
Almost 40, and have still never owned a vehicle despite desperately wanting one, being super into cars, and having my life made actively worse by public transit.
It's like a universal joke at this point. How does everyone have/afford a car but me? I just don't understand.
my first car was a 800 euros Citroen BX that i paid about 300 too much for and worked 2 months to afford, the one that i crashed a few months back actually, and my 2nd car is the 1st car of many cousins and my sister and was given to me as long as i fixed it because they all rather wanted to keep their 1st car close-ish then getting money from it :)
so all and all if you are not too picky getting a car is not the hard part, it is the fuel and insurance the more expensive (i only paid the BX about 7 times in insurance over the 5 years i have owned it...)
at least in france those old cars are still rather cheap to buy and maintain, and very little tend to go wrong on them, maybe because there is pretty much nothing on them (although if you do not want to play repair lottery do keep away from old hydro-pneumatic citroens, rolls-royces and mercedeses, quite a few parts in those systems are unobtenium by now, but they are the most comfortable ride money can buy)
and i found some selling one of my ultimate dream cars for cheap, but it is not in france, i have no clues on how to import an old car, and not really enough space for it...
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3094 on: Sat, 15 October 2022, 16:28:14 »
Almost 40, and have still never owned a vehicle despite desperately wanting one, being super into cars, and having my life made actively worse by public transit.
It's like a universal joke at this point. How does everyone have/afford a car but me? I just don't understand.
my first car was a 800 euros Citroen BX that i paid about 300 too much for and worked 2 months to afford, the one that i crashed a few months back actually, and my 2nd car is the 1st car of many cousins and my sister and was given to me as long as i fixed it because they all rather wanted to keep their 1st car close-ish then getting money from it :)
so all and all if you are not too picky getting a car is not the hard part, it is the fuel and insurance the more expensive (i only paid the BX about 7 times in insurance over the 5 years i have owned it...)
at least in france those old cars are still rather cheap to buy and maintain, and very little tend to go wrong on them, maybe because there is pretty much nothing on them (although if you do not want to play repair lottery do keep away from old hydro-pneumatic citroens, rolls-royces and mercedeses, quite a few parts in those systems are unobtenium by now, but they are the most comfortable ride money can buy)
and i found some selling one of my ultimate dream cars for cheap, but it is not in france, i have no clues on how to import an old car, and not really enough space for it...

Citroën DS is in my Dream Car Garage list. If Leno says it is the smoothest ride he's ever driven, you know that thing has got to glide like silk in a waxed butthole.

What is everyone's Dream Car list? Like, if you could own anything and have them free roam on your open property like beautiful steel cattle.
My top 3 most loved cars have * but the rest are in no particular order. There's only one on the list I could ever afford, and that's the Sera which is basically a Tercel with butterfly doors and a crazy '90s interior.

*1970 Mazda Cosmo Sport Series II L10B
*Ferrari F40
*Lancia Stratos
Renault Alpine A110 1600
Lamborghini Diablo SV
Lancia Delta Integrale
DeTomaso Pantera
Plymouth Superbird
Lincoln Mark V Designer Series
Citroën DS
Aston Martin DB11 AMR
Toyota 2000GT
Mazda RX-7 FD
Eagle E-Type
Mitsubishi Starion
Toyota Sera
Toyota Land Cruiser
Mercedes AMG E 63 S Wagon

Offline yui

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3095 on: Sun, 16 October 2022, 14:28:39 »
Citroën DS is in my Dream Car Garage list. If Leno says it is the smoothest ride he's ever driven, you know that thing has got to glide like silk in a waxed butthole.

What is everyone's Dream Car list? Like, if you could own anything and have them free roam on your open property like beautiful steel cattle.
My top 3 most loved cars have * but the rest are in no particular order. There's only one on the list I could ever afford, and that's the Sera which is basically a Tercel with butterfly doors and a crazy '90s interior.

the CX is the DS direct decedent, the BX is kinda the bastard child of the CX and a lower end car :) all 3 share the same suspension though, as do early XM, al all are cheaper than the DS :)
and i can confirm, potholes and speed humps are inexistant with them :)
My list would be:
Mazda Rx4 / Luce rotary
Mazda Rx7 FC / Savanna (if Rx4 is not possible :))
Citroen CX (Phase 2)
Citroen BX (GTI 16 Soupape/4x4 + my current Calanque)
Honda Beat
Honda Acty truck 4x4 (2nd gen)
Volvo 760/960 (sedan)
Caterham 7
Superlite SL-C ("26B" powered, for ultimate lightness, power and noise)

most of them are obtainable, appart from the SL-C and maybe the BX GTI, i could have already a few if it was not for finding a place to keep them :)
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3096 on: Sun, 16 October 2022, 17:19:32 »

the smoothest ride he's ever driven


My father got a Peugeot 504 in the early-1980s and it had a very smooth ride and amazingly comfortable seats.

He sold it after a few years because parts and repairs were insanely frustrating - at the time there was only one importer for parts into the US and they were obscenely expensive. A global supply chain has probably eased that problem by now.
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline mohawk1367

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3097 on: Mon, 17 October 2022, 08:17:27 »
I would absolutely loathe the computerized interface, being a (...) lover of buttons, knobs and switches.
Amen.

I drove the newest Golf recently. Didn't like the computerized interface at all. And Tesla's dashboard makes me nauseous.

I'm gonna speak in terms of aesthetics and not utility here, but Tesla's interior design is just so underwhelming for being a pricey luxury car IMO. It's preference and all but it just feels too simple, theres no detail or anything. (I do understand that simple is Tesla's design language, it's just not how I like luxury cars to be personally.)
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3098 on: Mon, 17 October 2022, 09:46:34 »
The "love at first sight" moment for me was when I climbed into the driver's seat of my first Honda Odyssey. I was immediately smitten with the feeling of "everything is here, just where it should be" (in spite of the fact that the right edges of the sound and temperature controls were slightly more of a reach than I would have wanted) because the configuration and spacing for all the controls was appropriate and comfortable.

ps - I grew up in the 1950s-1960s when dashboards were metal and bristled with all manner of pokers and stabbers, and seat belts (including shoulder belts) were not mandatory in the US until 1968 - although most cars had front seat lap belts by the early 1960s
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline Sniping

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Re: Car Thread
« Reply #3099 on: Thu, 03 November 2022, 17:10:10 »
The "love at first sight" moment for me was when I climbed into the driver's seat of my first Honda Odyssey. I was immediately smitten with the feeling of "everything is here, just where it should be" (in spite of the fact that the right edges of the sound and temperature controls were slightly more of a reach than I would have wanted) because the configuration and spacing for all the controls was appropriate and comfortable.

ps - I grew up in the 1950s-1960s when dashboards were metal and bristled with all manner of pokers and stabbers, and seat belts (including shoulder belts) were not mandatory in the US until 1968 - although most cars had front seat lap belts by the early 1960s

I've come to appreciate normal cars a lot more in the recent past. I particularly have grown to like cars that age well. Cloth seats and simple design, hard plastics that don't age, scratch easily, or creak.