[IC] Fox Lab - Leaf 60 (GB start)

[DJSwayde]

This is partly why I want universal PCB, we can decide for ourselves which connectors to use.

[senter]

Gasket mount 60%. Nice.

Sure the USB port cutout is not pretty if all types of Mini-USB, USB-C universal PCBs are supported. It would be a "close" compromise if it supports one type only, for example USB-C, when tight cutout is preferred.

Take a step further, if we go to proprietary PCB, the cutout should be right in the middle for aesthetics, like M60, Viper, E6, etc.. I think it's also a good choice for a tight cutout in this case.

IMO it will go too far to have a usb cutout on the right, which looks like a bit randomly positioned in current render picture.

My concern is, even with the same type of USB port, the position of the port can also be different. I've noticed this issue on several 60% Mini USB PCBs. Not sure about USB C PCBs on the market.

Assume we will go with proprietary PCB, is middle port much better than left/right port for aesthetics? I think it's very subjective. I placed the port on the right side for a very simple reason: the USB port on Leaf 80 was on the right side. Since they're in the same series, it was an easy decision. I didn't think through it tbh.

[mnpq.raven]

I also agree with the 'middle port proprietary PCBs or universal cutouts' opinion, as a right port proprietary PCB seems like a rather random spot, at least to me.
For the proprietary PCBs themselves as long as qmk is supported i wouldn't mind much

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[senter]

Will there be any proxies or will it be zfrontier only?

It's too early to say but I prefer to work with zFrontier

[senter]

Is this compatible with alps switches? White leaf60 and aek keycap would look nice

Sure, it will support ALPS switches. I don't think it will match AEK caps tho. AEK caps match best with cases with curved front like on Lunar

[senter]

Can someone eli5 what E-coating is?

* Electrophoretic coating (e-coating) is technically similar to powder coating but way smoother, even smoother than most anodizing.

[senter]

I also agree with the 'middle port proprietary PCBs or universal cutouts' opinion, as a right port proprietary PCB seems like a rather random spot, at least to me.
For the proprietary PCBs themselves as long as qmk is supported i wouldn't mind much

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OK, I must admit I get the same sense about the symmetrical aesthetic now. The right port is silly.
So now it's just the choice between middle port proprietary PCBs for aesthetic and left universal port for convenience.

[Master_Zebra]

I think I'd rather get middle port proprietary PCBs!

[dantambok]

I prefer standard PCBs for sure but a proprietary is okay as long as the extra PCB wont be super expensive 

[cldskt]

I also agree with the 'middle port proprietary PCBs or universal cutouts' opinion, as a right port proprietary PCB seems like a rather random spot, at least to me.
For the proprietary PCBs themselves as long as qmk is supported i wouldn't mind much

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OK, I must admit I get the same sense about the symmetrical aesthetic now. The right port is silly.
So now it's just the choice between middle port proprietary PCBs for aesthetic and left universal port for convenience.

I’m fine with either, just no hotswap for proprietary PCB for me.

[ptiede]

Middle port proprietary pcb is definitely my choice!

[juaninamilli]

I can't say I've seen an IC with so many opinions on the PCB. Whichever way you go, I'm in. Would love a matte white, but it looks it might not be available for this one. GLWBG

[tiydal]

Would you offer fixed ISO plate?

Only if there are enough interests. I doubt it now so no. Sorry.

I wont be making mine ISO, but a good idea would be to make the plate design open then it can be modified and if someone wants a custom plate they can get one cut somewhere like laserboost (unless the design means the plate has to be cnc'd etc)

I personally would much rather prefer the board with a larger USB port cutout for universal PCB compatibility, rather than a tight USB cutout for a proprietary PCB.

Thirded personally, it allows an aftermarket buyer to pick a hotswap PCB for example for ease. Having said that if you're 100% sold on keeping it proprietary then. Not much to be done and it doesn't effect my overall opinion of the board. Just a preference.

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GSKT-00 and E6-V2 are both great boards and both use proprietary PCBs. That's why I don't think using proprietary PCBs is a very abrupt decision.

The plan for the PCB is: QMK, USB C, MX/ALPS, split/non-split spacebar. It won't be hot-swappable tho if that's the feature you want from other PCBs.

Personally, my current taste really doesn't like the super large USB port cutout.

Change my mind if more people disagree with me. That's the main purpose of the IC.

Whilst I like the tight port etc; I think a universal PCB has more positives that outweigh the beauty of the clean cut usb port,

- You can pick and choose which one you want
- The Runner can choose to not include a pcb, making it easier for the runner
- Replacing the PCB is easier
- Buyer can choose anything he wants from a range of PCB's (hs60, dz60 type c, dz60 mini, zeal60, kbd6x)
- Buyer can use what they already have (e.g i have 2 dz60 waiting to be used in my drawer)

Also, personally, I'm not a fan of switch mounting that supports both mx and alps.

[ejewell89]

Would really like the full 60 poly with split spacebar support, which it looks like youre considering.

I think if that happens, I'm in

[otanishock]

You could maybe design the cutout hole to fit a DZ60 which is one of the more popular standard 60%. I think there are quite a few other standard 60%'s that share the same usb port at the same location with the DZ60 (namely D60, etc.) This design still offers a tight cut out hole yet still manages to support a wide range of standard 60%.

[DJSwayde]

Whilst I like the tight port etc; I think a universal PCB has more positives that outweigh the beauty of the clean cut usb port,

- You can pick and choose which one you want
- The Runner can choose to not include a pcb, making it easier for the runner
- Replacing the PCB is easier
- Buyer can choose anything he wants from a range of PCB's (hs60, dz60 type c, dz60 mini, zeal60, kbd6x)
- Buyer can use what they already have (e.g i have 2 dz60 waiting to be used in my drawer)

I agree with this post 100%.

If this board supports universal PCB, I will like be in for one.

I have enough boards with proprietary PCBs, really don't need or want anymore.

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[DJSwayde]

Accidental double post.

[rope]

i love my leaf 80 and this is hot, so will most definitely try to get in on this!!

[LuiKang]

I'm for an HHKB + splitted spacebar.

[xantiema]

Is it possible to make this compatible with arrow keys? Would be instant buy from me

[mnpq.raven]

Is it possible to make this compatible with arrow keys? Would be instant buy from me

It is a hard thing to ask for tbh, for *dedicated* arrows you should just go with 65%
You can always program for arrow keys with qmk tho

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[xantiema]

How disruptive is it, making it compatible?

[mnpq.raven]

Double post

[mnpq.raven]

How disruptive is it, making it compatible?

No i mean the arrow keys from either universal or proprietary 60% PCBs, not from it being compatible or not. If you want arrow keys from a universal PCB then there is a 2u left shift layout from the dz60 layout, and even that being the case it's not a very popular layout among the 60% layouts to choose from
Don't get me wrong but my point is that i find that if you want arrows then 65% is a much better option, ofcourse you can fit a arrow key layout into a 60% pcb but it's not the whole pont of a 60% keyboard

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[dorf]

I like the design. A very nice case.

As for pcb, it doesn't matter to me as long as it supports QMK, ATmega32u4, DFU bootloader.

When it comes to arrow keys etc. so no thanks. It would erode the plate a lot. What I mean is that ISO already reduces the amount of sheet metal. I very much wish that ISO is supported.

Is there a possibility that drawings on the plate are released in connection with the purchase?

[Abec13]

This curved sides with an HHKB top would look very interesting. Probably will pick once of these up in silver.

[Abec13]

Would like a proprietary PCB here. I think, if it's possible, Hotswap would be awesome if you decide to cut out ISO. At least for people going HHKB or WKL.

[tiydal]

Would like a proprietary PCB here. I think, if it's possible, Hotswap would be awesome if you decide to cut out ISO. At least for people going HHKB or WKL.

If it had universal pcb support you wouldn’t have to wish as there is the Kbd6x and HS60 pcb already made for that.

If it is universal pcb I’ll be getting a WKL one with split backspace, so I’ll probs use my hs60


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[DJSwayde]

It seems the proprietary PCB is so that the USB cutout can be tight, but I would happily sacrifice a tighter USB cutout for universal PCBs so I can have the exact features I want.

[DALExSNAIL]

This look promising.

If the camo anode happens count me in for sure.

[fireworm]

Split Space bar support?

[nasp]

Since there is so much discussion about the PCB type, would you mind creating a poll to see what the interest is? After all, is that not the purpose of this IC thread?
 

[ian13]

May I ask what is the projected front height of this board? Hopefully, it's below 20mm with feet.

[dondongler]

If you do go proprietary pcb can we get one of those sweet relief cuts?

[Abec13]

Any idea on a price yet?

[senter]

I like the design. A very nice case.

As for pcb, it doesn't matter to me as long as it supports QMK, ATmega32u4, DFU bootloader.

When it comes to arrow keys etc. so no thanks. It would erode the plate a lot. What I mean is that ISO already reduces the amount of sheet metal. I very much wish that ISO is supported.

Is there a possibility that drawings on the plate are released in connection with the purchase?

ISO was supported in every previous GB, but not in this one.
Yes. I always share the plate files to no matter who asks.

[senter]

Split Space bar support?

Yes

[senter]

Since there is so much discussion about the PCB type, would you mind creating a poll to see what the interest is? After all, is that not the purpose of this IC thread?

Thanks for the suggestion. This IC has already served its turn so far.
I prefer to discuss in the posts rather than launching a poll. Poll is better when the options are very clear in the very beginning.
The original USB port was on the right side. Now it will be either on the left side for universal support or in the middle for a proprietary PCB.
These two options were not clear in the very beginning.
I think right now we're very aware of all the pros and cons on either option. I'll make the final decision based on the discusses and my own opinions.

More suggestions on other aspects (colors, finishes, angle) are much more needed next.

[senter]

May I ask what is the projected front height of this board? Hopefully, it's below 20mm with feet.

It's 19mm without feet and 20mm with feet.

[senter]

If you do go proprietary pcb can we get one of those sweet relief cuts?

Do you mean like on GSKT-00?

[senter]

Any idea on a price yet?

We can know the price only after prototyping.

[juaninamilli]

The lower the angle the better on Koala style sides. I think you listed 5 degrees, which I would prefer. Were you going to offer matte white as an option?

[senter]

BTW, as some guys requested in the Leaf 80 thread, there will also be a matching numpad available

[dondongler]

If you do go proprietary pcb can we get one of those sweet relief cuts?

Do you mean like on GSKT-00?

Yes

[senter]

The lower the angle the better on Koala style sides. I think you listed 5 degrees, which I would prefer. Were you going to offer matte white as an option?

E-white and MAO white are all matte white if I understand correctly.
I haven't try to list the color options yet for Leaf 60. There are not too many discussions that can inspire me in this thread.
I'll try some new colors/finishes that haven't been used before, as always.
E-white looks pretty popular in Leaf 80 GB so it's also possible to be available on Leaf 60.

[juaninamilli]

Have you decided what rubber type you're going to be using?  Soft? Hard?

[clasicks]

will buy regardless of pcb type, but def like that you are considering universal, and def like that you like center usb if proprietary.


You should make it center usb and eagle/viper v2 compatible :dreaming:

[senter]

If you do go proprietary pcb can we get one of those sweet relief cuts?

Do you mean like on GSKT-00?

Yes

🤔 I doubt the effect of the relief cuts tbh. I don't own a 00 so cannot verify it by myself.
There is very little information about it. I incline to believe it's not a good feature that has been generally accepted.
In this case, I would not consider this feature because otherwise it's more like a direct copy without thinking.

[ChrisSwires]

If you do go proprietary pcb can we get one of those sweet relief cuts?

Do you mean like on GSKT-00?

Yes

I doubt the effect of the relief cuts tbh. I don't own a 00 so cannot verify it by myself.
There is very little information about it. I incline to believe it's not a good feature that has been generally accepted.
In this case, I would not consider this feature because otherwise it's more like a direct copy without thinking.

PCB relief cuts primarily come into their own with a half, or indeed no plate, the addition of a full plate largely (not entirely) neuters them so I'd agree generally.

Source: GSKT-00

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[azharkh]

The lower the angle the better on Koala style sides. I think you listed 5 degrees, which I would prefer. Were you going to offer matte white as an option?

+1 to 4/5 degree angle

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