Post by: MOZ on Thu, 28 January 2016, 12:05:30
The 65% keyboards have been intriguing me for a while and I tried out a mock sort of setup using my 1800 and realised that this was the right layout for me as it is the most practical, however all the 65% on offer will still cause ulnar deviation. I then decided I have to make a 65% with a split. I used the Input Club Ergodox' Left-hand KiCAD project as a blue print and then started to work on the PCB. The decision to use the ICED was as it had support for two PCBs communicating with each other.
This brings us to today, I have completed the PCBs for both the left and right side of the keyboard. I will be uploading the project to Github soon once. However I am at a conundrum for a decent bottom row, one that is practical and one that has decent compatibility with existing keysets.
Features:
- Open Source Design
- Fully Programmable Keys
- Split design for better ergonomics, while maintaining the currently "standard" keyboard layput
- PCBs and case designed so that the two sides can be aligned perfectly like a 65%, for others using the board, cleaner desk while not at it, etc.
- Multiple layers
- Alps/Cherry (PCB/Plate) switch support
- PCB mount stabs supported
- Backlight LED on top to maintain compatibility with the few backlit keysets out there
- 3 Indicator + CapsLock LED
- 18 SMD RGB LEDs on the bottom of the PCB for under/side glow
- SMD (SOD-123) diodes
- Individual resistors for the LEDs not required as it uses a dedicated LED driver
- Using large (0805) capacitors and resistors so it is easier to hand-solde
Optional features supported:
- Possibility to add a buzzer
- Possibility to add a PS/2 trackpoint to either halves.
- Possibility to add a rotary dial for changing volume, LED brightness, etc.
Layout options decided/implemented:
- Split backspace
- Split left shift
- ISO support
- Off-center capslock
- 2.75 and 1.75 right shift
- Multiple bottom rows supported
(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/mohitg11/TS65AVR/master/layouts.png)
To Do (immediate):
- Add support for RGB LEDs to EasyAVR
- Add support for MCP23018 to EasyAVR
- Add support for buzzer to EasyAVR
- Add support for PS/2 trackpoint to EasyAVR
- Add support for rotary encoder to EasyAVR
GitHub Link: https://github.com/mohitg11/TS65AVR
Current PCB design:
(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/mohitg11/TS65AVR/master/PCB.png)
What it's gonna look like:
(http://imageham.com/images/2016/05/02/simpleRender.png)
Post by: cy384 on Thu, 28 January 2016, 12:48:53
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 28 January 2016, 12:51:04
Post by: kevral on Fri, 29 January 2016, 02:22:32
That said, your layout looks perfect. Ideally I would want a longer right and shorter left space, but realize that might be hard to fit regular keycaps.
Your decision to make each part connectable on its own is the only correct one.
Personally I would add a column of keys to each side, to the right on the left side and vice versa, to use as macro keys for gaming or other assignable for general use. But that would make it less ideal to snap together like a normal keyboard, so I am not necessarily recommending you do it.
With a nice alu case I would buy, if someone sold one.
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 29 January 2016, 04:04:30
At first glance that looks perfect. My first 2 keyboards were MS Naturals, and I have a Kinesis Freestyle somewhere. Didn't start using a regular keyboard until a few years ago, when I wanted to learn be able to use both laptops and 60 % mechanicals - plus I realized the angle of the Naturals made me change the stagger of the left hand keys, so I needed to relearn proper touch typing.Just in case there is a confusion, the left and right side will be two individual PCBs and have their own case, giving the user the flexibility to lay them out as they wish, with an angle or not, the distance, different heights, etc.
That said, your layout looks perfect. Ideally I would want a longer right and shorter left space, but realize that might be hard to fit regular keycaps.I went with the longest key that is still fairly easy to get a hand on, anything longer is very very hard to find and hardly any sets have those keys barring 7bit's Round 5/6.
I'm quite happy with the right side bottom row, just trying to have a config for the right side, where when can cap it with 125 TKL and either, Tsangan kit or Ergodox kit. So probably two layouts. I think the 1.75U Right shift is going to become popular and be a part of the base sets moving forward given the popularity of Whitefox and growing appreciation for 65% boards.
Post by: kevral on Sat, 30 January 2016, 02:59:37
In 1995 the MS Natural was the closest you could get, but the Kinesis has 2 separate halves connected by a wire, each able to be tilted and placed separately.
I like the bottom row. The extra 1.25 key on the left hand looks like a particularly useful thumb key. I assume each Space key is individually programmable?
Post by: MOZ on Sat, 30 January 2016, 03:14:12
I like the bottom row. The extra 1.25 key on the left hand looks like a particularly useful thumb key. I assume each Space key is individually programmable?Yes, each key is going to be individually programmable. :)
Am I the only one interested in a split 65%? :(
Post by: Charger on Sat, 30 January 2016, 10:28:45
Am I the only one interested in a split 65%? :(no you now have me wanting one lol.
Post by: hoggy on Sat, 30 January 2016, 10:31:45
Post by: MOZ on Mon, 01 February 2016, 11:58:35
I have implemented a number of layouts for the bottom row, it should allow one to fill the board with a base TKL, short right shift and either Ergodox, Planck, Tsangan kit, only key that might be a problem is the 2.25 "space".
Now to get on to the case and firmware.
Feedback, criticism, etc highly appreciated.
Post by: regack on Mon, 01 February 2016, 17:43:58
Post by: MOZ on Mon, 01 February 2016, 23:19:00
Looks really great MOZ, lots of options on the bottom row. I kept thinking about it, and in the end I think I like your default layout the best. Will your case be able to sort of snap together, or will they always be separate pieces?
Thanks! When you say snap, do you mean snap like using magnets and the two halves connected electronically use board to board connection like on the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard; or just physically allow the user to have it placed in the standard 65% layout?
Post by: regack on Tue, 02 February 2016, 07:16:32
... just physically allow the user to have it placed in the standard 65% layout?
I really just meant this, but I like the idea of adding magnets to actually have the two halves stick when they are placed together. I feel that doing some kind of board-to-board interconnect (like the UHK) would be overly complicated, and the benefits don't necessarily outweigh the complexity.
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 02 February 2016, 08:08:47
... just physically allow the user to have it placed in the standard 65% layout?
I really just meant this, but I like the idea of adding magnets to actually have the two halves stick when they are placed together. I feel that doing some kind of board-to-board interconnect (like the UHK) would be overly complicated, and the benefits don't necessarily outweigh the complexity.
I'll look into the option of including neo magnets in the bottom most layer. BTW do you think it will have any negative effect on the electronics?
Post by: regack on Tue, 02 February 2016, 08:30:03
Edit: Apparently it's "the magnetic field falls off as the cube of the distance (1/r3)" - here's a neat little calculator (https://www.kjmagnetics.com/calculator.asp).
Post by: MOZ on Wed, 03 February 2016, 09:00:18
For small neodymium magnets (3mm x 1mm) once you get about 5mm away there is very little magnetic field. I think it drops off logrithmically from the magnetic source (or some other mathematical function). I don't think it would have much effect on signals out on the edge of the case like that. Strong neodymium magnets are inside of a hard drive ~15mm from the platters, so I don't think you'll mess up the signalling in a keyboard.
Edit: Apparently it's "the magnetic field falls off as the cube of the distance (1/r3)" - here's a neat little calculator (https://www.kjmagnetics.com/calculator.asp).
I have some magnets with me, will test how a few pairs hold through a layer of 3mm acrylic.
Also decided to better utilise the empty space ont he top left side of the right hand, will work on adding 3 LEDs that can be used either fr showing lock statuses or current layer.
Post by: azhdar on Wed, 03 February 2016, 14:02:50
Post by: toxicdrift on Fri, 05 February 2016, 03:19:46
Post by: simonyunhe on Fri, 05 February 2016, 06:25:29
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sat, 06 February 2016, 03:57:39
Post by: BaconEggandCheeseBagel on Sat, 06 February 2016, 11:40:31
Post by: Bromono on Sat, 06 February 2016, 13:27:30
Post by: MOZ on Sun, 07 February 2016, 11:25:18
I like this a lot, if an aluminum case could be made for it I would be all over itI have absolutely no idea how to use 3D CAD tools, if someone would like to, they are more than welcome to, all the required files are on GitHub.
-----------------------------------------------
Finally the layered acrylic case design is done, here is a snapshot of the SVG file (Uploaded to GitHub)
(http://i.imgur.com/5R819rU.png)
As usual suggestions, critics, questions welcome. :)
Post by: MOZ on Mon, 08 February 2016, 11:58:36
In case someone wants to build a non-split 65, then that is a viable option too, although I wouldn't recommend it as there will be two MCU and LED drivers, so higher costs as compared to some other 65% PCBs like the WhiteFox, however there is support for Alps switches ;) The left and right side can be connected using direct cables via the debug headers on the board rather than using the second pair of USB connectors. Only one USB Type C on either side will suffice. Oh and as it stands right now, only the split spacebar is available, I'll look into adding full size space bars if the board permits.
Still have to update the case, that is designed for v0.1, PCB dimensions have changed.
(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/mohitg11/TS65/master/PCBOutput.png)
Post by: MOZ on Wed, 10 February 2016, 08:26:13
Post by: MOZ on Wed, 10 February 2016, 11:20:00
Post by: derezzed on Wed, 10 February 2016, 22:31:06
[attachimg=1]
Post by: Findecanor on Fri, 12 February 2016, 16:22:25
That would make the left and right sides the same width and thus make it easier to tent them at the same angle.
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 12 February 2016, 16:52:58
Post by: toxicdrift on Sun, 14 February 2016, 11:26:45
Post by: MOZ on Sun, 14 February 2016, 14:10:06
Post by: MOZ on Wed, 17 February 2016, 07:31:31
This looks fantastic. This is so close to the layout I want to build. Does the image in the OP represent all the bottom row layouts that the PCB currently supports, or could it also support a bottom row like this?
(Attachment Link)
The image in the OP represents all the layouts possible for either sides, so you can mix a left and right side configuration, however those are the only possible layouts for each side. The bottom row split is 7.25 - 8.75, the one you have posted is 7.5 - 8.5. Also, the matrix has only 5 switch positions on the left side, your suggest layout has 6.
================================================
Last week it struck me, embarrassingly late, that these Freescale MCUs don't come pre-programmed with a bootloader and that whoever builds the board from scratch would require a flasher. I was about to go back to an AVR based solution as not having the bootloader preprogrammed was a deal breaker for me.
However, after about a week of debating and weighing things including discussions with Matt_, I've decided to go ahead with the Freescale MCU, I know it is another item required (Flasher) as well as another step, but looking at the scenario where a single board would be manufactured as well as GB, the bootloader being pr-programmed or not, is really not that a big deal.
PCB design with the WS2812B RGB LEDs is complete, I've also added the JTAG connector back on the board for easier flashing during manufacturing. Once the cleaning up of the silkscreen and some cleanup of traces (Differential pair routing) is done, I'll commit the changes onto GitHub.
I've placed an order for a WS2812B strip (With the Logic Level Shifter pre-assembled) and a Teensy 3.2, time to start work on the firmware end of things.
Changes made to PCB from v0.2:
- Added WS2812B RGB LEDs via a 74HCT1G125
- Removed the 0805 underglow LEDs
- Changed the MXAlps footprint to one without slots in favour of circular holes for better compatibility with various fabs, and also because it provided better copper area for soldering switches on the bottom row, where things get real crowded.
- Added 10-pin tag-connect header on the board
- Added three indicator LEDs
- Added some protection circuitry for ESD, overcurrent, overvoltage.
- Retraced some of the clock/signal and differential pair traces, so they are traced as they should be and same length.
- General minor changes here and there
Post by: regack on Wed, 17 February 2016, 16:29:27
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 18 February 2016, 00:11:46
I was about to ask why you had the buffer for the leds, and then I answered my own question when I realized that the MCU is 3.3v... I'm a little slow.
hahaha, not as slow as me, I realised I'll need a flasher for MCU 1 month into designing the board. :P
Post by: berserkfan on Thu, 18 February 2016, 10:29:00
Post by: FrostyToast on Thu, 18 February 2016, 20:31:07
Even a sandwich style acrylic case would be entirely fine by me.
Post by: MOZ on Wed, 24 February 2016, 02:03:12
Now I have to find a way to integrate them, this is going to be a headache as kiibohd is in C and FastLED in C++.
Almost done on the PCB, there's been a number of changes since 0.2. I'm quite happy with it now.
Post by: derezzed on Thu, 25 February 2016, 23:55:59
This looks fantastic. This is so close to the layout I want to build. Does the image in the OP represent all the bottom row layouts that the PCB currently supports, or could it also support a bottom row like this?
(Attachment Link)
The image in the OP represents all the layouts possible for either sides, so you can mix a left and right side configuration, however those are the only possible layouts for each side. The bottom row split is 7.25 - 8.75, the one you have posted is 7.5 - 8.5. Also, the matrix has only 5 switch positions on the left side, your suggest layout has 6.
Ahh, yes. That was careless of me. I miscounted the units and I have practically no experience reading PCBs. I have to say, though, that this PCB is sexy. The options put this layout above virtually all others in my book. I used to think that a well-designed 60% layout would be best but the more I see the 65% layouts, the more I like them. I have a feeling that 65% boards will be the next big trend in mechanicals.
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 26 February 2016, 02:08:33
I finished the PCB, but can't commit to GitHub on office network. Will be up when I get back home.
Post by: MOZ on Sat, 27 February 2016, 11:14:31
Changes made to PCB from v0.2:
- Replaced bottom LEDs with WS2812B RGB LEDs
- Changed the MXAlps footprint to one without slots in favour of circular holes for better compatibility with various fabs, and also because it provided better copper area for soldering switches on the bottom row, where things get real crowded.
- Added 10-pin tag-connect header on the board
- Added three indicator LEDs
- Added some protection circuitry for ESD, overcurrent, overvoltage.
- Retraced some of the clock/signal and differential pair traces, so they are traced as they should be and same length.
- General minor changes here and there
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 01 March 2016, 13:26:18
In a dramatic turn of events last week, I have now moved the project to an AVR based solution. The reason is that I started working on the firmware, however the WS2812B libraries I intended to use are C++, and the kiibohd controller firmware in C, I did try to get them to work together bud didn't. So without beating around the bush, I decided to go with QMK, as it has support for MCP23018 for split design as well as WS2812B LEDs and backlight LEDs.
Now the exciting news, I've spent my free time the last 3 days flashing a variant of the LUFA Mass Storage class bootloader and now I've got a ProMicro that runs the user application when plugged in and after grounding the RESET pin shows up as a Mass Storage device on the system. So all you have to do is replace the FLASH.BIN and replug the device. Voila!
I'm really happy about this, as it means if the user has a hex file, they don't need any special software on the system, so a web configurator like MassDrop/Infinity would be great with this solution. For a desktop application like JigOn/EasyAVR, generating the bin file and then sending it to the Mass Storage device shouldn't be an issue either. For the super-efficient, command-line to compile the bin file and copy it to the Mass Storage deivce should be trivial.
Now moving forward:
1. Redesign the PCB with new controller. Idea is to use microUSB/USB Type C to connect to PC on left side and USB Type C/USB3.0 to connect the two halves. I'm keen on using the Type C because I need 6 connections between the two halves, the Type C is designed for repeated connects, so it should be robust.
2. Redesign the case. With the bulk of the controller parts being on the left side and only the MCP23018 will be on the right side, I'm thinking to bring symmetry to the design, have the controller parts in two column width on the left of the left hand and remove the extra area on the top part of the PCBs.
3. Make the required changes to the QMK firmware to support the matrix, configure RGB LEDs, and configure backlight.
4. Make a configurator for the layout as well as LED options. Still to decide which one first, web or desktop? What do you think?
Post by: geniekid on Tue, 01 March 2016, 13:37:39
MoreSo.........
In a dramatic turn of events last week, I have now moved the project to an AVR based solution. The reason is that I started working on the firmware, however the WS2812B libraries I intended to use are C++, and the kiibohd controller firmware in C, I did try to get them to work together bud didn't. So without beating around the bush, I decided to go with QMK, as it has support for MCP23018 for split design as well as WS2812B LEDs and backlight LEDs.
Now the exciting news, I've spent my free time the last 3 days flashing a variant of the LUFA Mass Storage class bootloader and now I've got a ProMicro that runs the user application when plugged in and after grounding the RESET pin shows up as a Mass Storage device on the system. So all you have to do is replace the FLASH.BIN and replug the device. Voila!
I'm really happy about this, as it means if the user has a hex file, they don't need any special software on the system, so a web configurator like MassDrop/Infinity would be great with this solution. For a desktop application like JigOn/EasyAVR, generating the bin file and then sending it to the Mass Storage device shouldn't be an issue either. For the super-efficient, command-line to compile the bin file and copy it to the Mass Storage deivce should be trivial.
Now moving forward:
1. Redesign the PCB with new controller. Idea is to use microUSB/USB Type C to connect to PC on left side and USB Type C/USB3.0 to connect the two halves. I'm keen on using the Type C because I need 6 connections between the two halves, the Type C is designed for repeated connects, so it should be robust.
2. Redesign the case. With the bulk of the controller parts being on the left side and only the MCP23018 will be on the right side, I'm thinking to bring symmetry to the design, have the controller parts in two column width on the left of the left hand and remove the extra area on the top part of the PCBs.
3. Make the required changes to the QMK firmware to support the matrix, configure RGB LEDs, and configure backlight.
4. Make a configurator for the layout as well as LED options. Still to decide which one first, web or desktop? What do you think?
I feel like web configurators tend to be more limited when it comes to more complex configuration options, but maybe that's just because metalliqaz's EasyAVR has blown away every other configurator I've ever used (NerD, JigOn, TMK Keymap Generator, Ergodox Configurator, etc.).
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 01 March 2016, 13:43:23
Post by: regack on Tue, 01 March 2016, 13:44:21
4. Make a configurator for the layout as well as LED options. Still to decide which one first, web or desktop? What do you think?
If you're going to do both, I'd target web first for ease-of-use-for-everyone. If it's running QMK/TMK, then even if the web version goes away as a result of loss of webserver/service etc... it can still be managed/maintained The Old Fashioned Way.
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 01 March 2016, 13:51:29
4. Make a configurator for the layout as well as LED options. Still to decide which one first, web or desktop? What do you think?
If you're going to do both, I'd target web first for ease-of-use-for-everyone. If it's running QMK/TMK, then even if the web version goes away as a result of loss of webserver/service etc... it can still be managed/maintained The Old Fashioned Way.
Hmm, in terms of ease of use, I don't think the EasyAVR is hard at all, just download and run the exe. Granted the extra step of downloading the tool.
Post by: regack on Tue, 01 March 2016, 14:58:55
4. Make a configurator for the layout as well as LED options. Still to decide which one first, web or desktop? What do you think?
If you're going to do both, I'd target web first for ease-of-use-for-everyone. If it's running QMK/TMK, then even if the web version goes away as a result of loss of webserver/service etc... it can still be managed/maintained The Old Fashioned Way.
Hmm, in terms of ease of use, I don't think the EasyAVR is hard at all, just download and run the exe. Granted the extra step of downloading the tool.
Yup, extra step, downloading :D
When you said desktop, I thought you were talking about your own configurator, not EasyAVR... so in that case, getting it into there would probably be my first choice.
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 01 March 2016, 22:40:44
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 04 March 2016, 15:54:06
(http://i.imgur.com/RZwbJHQ.png)
So what's happening here... MCP73831 is used for charging the battery connected on the "2PIN" connector. There are two LEDs for indicating charging and charged. VUSB is the 5V from USB connector.
The load sharing circuit ensures that if USB is not connected, VBAT goes to VINU (VIN unregulated) if however USB is connected, battery does not supply power to the keyboard but VUSB does. The Schottky diode is to ensure current doesn't flow from the battery into MCP73831's charge input supply.
The MCP16251 is used to boost the signal to 5V, it will boost both the power from battery and USB (Which will see some drop across fuse and Schottky diode). The regulated 5V then powers rest of the board. There is a jumper (Will switch to dipswitch) JP1 between the booster and VDD, so that the board can be powered off when using battery, debugging, connecting/disconnecting battery, etc.
And finally the "4PIN" connector can be used to connect to a Bluetooth module like the Bluefruit. There is p-channel mosfet so that the clean 5V goes to the bluetooth module, however when plugged into USB, it will not be powered. There is a switch (JP2) though that can be turned off so that the Bluetooth module will continue to be powered even when plugged into USB, this will allow the keyboard to be connected to two device (One via USB and other via BT).
One thing to note is that the backlight and RGB LEDs on the bottom of the board will be connected to a jumper that will allow you to tie the supply for the LEDs to VUSB or VDD, this is because LEDs will eat up a lot of juice from the battery. The charge indicator and other indicator LEDs (There are 4 of these on the board) will be connected to VDD.
Edit: Forgot to mention there is a jumper that will allow you to connect VUSB to VDD directly if not using the wireless capability. Also remember the keyboard is not 100% wireless as the two halves will be connected together via a USB 3.0 cable.
I'd appreciate comments and critic, also if some expert can review the circuit that would be wonderful.
Post by: harlw on Fri, 04 March 2016, 16:00:25
Post by: simonyunhe on Fri, 04 March 2016, 17:58:13
Post by: MOZ on Sun, 06 March 2016, 15:45:28
I've also implemented a jumper to enable/disable the charger. If you intend to use Alkaline or Ni based batteries, you need to charge them externally, this is because for the use case I think Li based batteries are better suited and thus charging circuit is implemented on board. For Ni batteries I'd have to implement a different circuit (Which is more complex than the Li one) and having both on board doesn't make sense.
Now, a lot has changed since the original design, so here are the features:
1. Split design using one MCU and an IO expander
2. Connection to PC only on left side
3. Wireless possibility with UART Bluetooth module
4. 18 RGB LEDs on bottom for glow
5. All switches have backlight LED, each with it's own resistor and not individually controllable
6. 3 Indicator + CapsLock LED
7. Possibility to add a buzzer
8. Possibility to add a PS/2 trackpoint to either halves.
Here are the schematics in PNG, PDF is attached.
(http://i.imgur.com/mRxxvy7.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/xnAKSMW.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/AX7Fq53.png)
I would really appreciate is some knowledgeable people can have a good look at the schematic and point out any things to correct/improve.
Post by: regack on Mon, 07 March 2016, 09:26:41
Just a few minor thoughts:
- I believe R24 should be a 33 Ohm resistor on the Din line for the WS2812b LEDs.
- related to that, with the halves split, I wonder if there should be another 33 Ohm on the Din for the right half. The WS2811 sheet actually has them on every IC (but they don't seem to be necessary) - just thinking with the split, it might help smooth out the data signal.
- I really like that the Planck PCB includes a small SMT indicator LED so you know the microcontroller is running - I'm adding that to the bottom of every project at this point, it's a great feature - it's also easily disabled by just removing the LED or resistor - I'm assuming the other LEDs are for caps & layer indicators
- Even though you've thought of everything, it might be nice to break out some of those extra pins Just In Case
Post by: mrbishop on Mon, 07 March 2016, 12:09:24
when i grow up i want to be able to make pcb's like you ;) :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Post by: MOZ on Mon, 07 March 2016, 12:18:06
MOZ, I think you know more than I do at this point - reading the work you've done and thought you've put into this. I'm still making toys :p , you've got something really amazing here. I'm curious, however, why you moved AT90 to the left side, isn't that the smaller PCB? It doesn't really matter, just wondering. Will there be space in the Left side case to fit optional BT & LiPo? Just thinking out loud.
Just a few minor thoughts:
- I believe R24 should be a 33 Ohm resistor on the Din line for the WS2812b LEDs.
- related to that, with the halves split, I wonder if there should be another 33 Ohm on the Din for the right half. The WS2811 sheet actually has them on every IC (but they don't seem to be necessary) - just thinking with the split, it might help smooth out the data signal.
- I really like that the Planck PCB includes a small SMT indicator LED so you know the microcontroller is running - I'm adding that to the bottom of every project at this point, it's a great feature - it's also easily disabled by just removing the LED or resistor - I'm assuming the other LEDs are for caps & layer indicators
- Even though you've thought of everything, it might be nice to break out some of those extra pins Just In Case
Thanks for the compliment Regack, it means a lot coming from you. I mentioned a little earlier in the thread that I will have two extra rows width of space on the left side of the left PCB to add symmetry to the design. I wanted to utilise this extra space, thus I implemented the extra features.
- For R24, 330 ohm ohm is what I read in almost all applications using SparkFun/Adafruit/Arduino devices as well as the resistance sold by most eBay sellers. I'm guessing one 330 on the line coming from the MCU is enough rather than one 33 ohm on each Din->Dout.
- Good point, I should probably add one, will do so.
- I have 3 layer indicator, 1 CapsLock indicator that will be top facing. Besides this I'll be having two more SMD LEDs on the bottom for charging status and also will add one more for BT status. LEDI1 will also be used to signify that the MCU is in bootload mode. I guess I'll throw in one more on the bottom and to reduce the total current draw, I'll recommend slightly higher value resistors.
- Extra I/O pins is going to happen, I just haven't put it in the schematic as I want to first layout all the necessary components and tracks; and space permitting, I'll probably breakout as many of those extra pins as possible.
Just to give an update, I looked into the HM-10 BT module which is quite cheap and should be implementable if there is space on the PCB, so you can mount the HM-10 module directly on the board.
Now if we put the HM-10 on the board, we introduce a 3.3V regulator, and then I though, if we are going to do that, we might as well use it, so another wild idea, microSD card, should be great for those that travel with their board. You can store files, portable apps, etc on the microSD. Still have to look into speeds and other aspects, but just a line of though. Adding hardware support is not going to be hard, it's the software side I foresee myself struggling with.
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 11 March 2016, 13:32:48
Something I'm struggling with is power management, how to determine how much current the charger will draw up when charging the battery. Should I include a FET based switch to turn off the LEDs when the charger is charging the internal battery?
Post by: MOZ on Sat, 12 March 2016, 15:20:25
This brings me to the new roadblock, I'd like to improve the possible current that can be used for charging the battery. To do this I'd need to detect the USB host port type, so that if the user wants they can connect the board to a dedicated USB charger which should allow drawing up to 1.5mA of current, which is enough for charging the battery. All the ICs I've seen that can do this are BGA or QFN type, which are not hand solder friendly at all, suggestions?
One way is to get rid of the possible microSD card support and use 400mA for LEDs and charger and let it be that way. However even then, 400mA isn't much. And if I'm going to do wireless, I'd rather do it properly.
Post by: mrbishop on Tue, 15 March 2016, 10:51:27
thanks MOZ
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 15 March 2016, 12:39:50
----------------------------------------------------------
On the electronics design,
-- I'm set on dropping the microSD support, it is going to be a an issue on many levels, power level, speed, etc.
-- To have better power efficiency, I'm currently exploring running the AT90USB1286 at 3.3V, 8Mhz. Of all the modules, the two that could probably create an issue are WS2812B backlighting and trackpoint. Trackpoint will basically run off 5V with a 3.3V->5V logic level shifter. Regarding the RGB LEDs, the spec sheet says VDD has to be 3.5V minimum, and signal 0.7*VDD; I'm goignt o see if it can be run off 3.3V. According to some online research a small number (20 LEDs is small I think :/) of LEDs should run fine. I'm waiting for the MCP1825 3.3V regulator to arrive, so that I can test out the 3.3V operation.
-- Also throwing in support for a rotary encoder (This should be relatively simple me guesses) that should be usable for changing volume, backlight brightness, and RGB colors.
-- Looks like adding support for a wall charger via the same microUSB connection used for interfacing with the computer will only be doable via a QFN package, and in that case should be pretty trivial.
On the firmware side,
-- Got LUFA Mass Storage bootloader on the Teensy++ 2.0. Working fine.
-- Got Easy AVR to work fine with the complete matrix wired to the Teensy directly, not via an I/O expander. Shows up in the UI, firmware builds and loads successfully. Have to say, metalliqaz has done a wonderful job on making it super-easy to add custom boards with the USB AVR chips.
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 18 March 2016, 07:43:54
Soldered the regulator and surprisingly it is still running, although this is technically overclocking/undervolting as I'm running the MCU at 16Mhz on 3.3V. Will test it at 8Mhz and report.
Soldered the SSOP MCP23018 package on a spare GHPad PCB I had lying around. Man this was 0.65 pitch and was a pain to solder, I missed the trick with using ample amounts of flush, but once I did, it soldered in well.
Post by: harlw on Sat, 19 March 2016, 23:20:33
Also, do you plan to add circuitry to utilize the battery as a range extender for electric vehicles? I have a prius kit with 300g lubed and stickered shifter knob coming in the mail soon.
Post by: lootbag on Sun, 20 March 2016, 01:19:02
Keep up the hard work!
Post by: KitWasHere on Sun, 20 March 2016, 15:51:10
Have you looked into the two halves being wireless from each other? Especially now that you're already adding lipo's to the mix. That was one feature I really want on my build, I have a few "HC-05" bluetooth modules on order to test if they would be fast enough. I would rather the two halves be wireless of each other and the keyboard itself be wired to the PC but that's just my preference.
Awesome work so far, this is going to be a really cool keyboard
Post by: lootbag on Sun, 20 March 2016, 22:56:34
Too bad I am not much help with regards to programming and a lot of the technicalities on the design.
Would be happy volunteer to attempt an aluminum CNC'd case once the PCB is finalized.
I have decent experience in 3D CAD/modeling and links to CNC factories in Shenzhen/China since I am located in Hong Kong.
Post by: MOZ on Mon, 21 March 2016, 08:58:37
Also, do you plan to add circuitry to utilize the battery as a range extender for electric vehicles? I have a prius kit with 300g lubed and stickered shifter knob coming in the mail soon.
LOLed too hard at that. Maybe ;)
I was actually just kicking around the idea of making a split 60% after seeing the Vergo Type T. Might just use what you've done already to give my project a head start.Sure by all means, I'm working on testing certain parts out and then should have my schematics complete, at which point, I'll be uploading them to GitHub, and you are more than welcome to use that as a base to start your project. I did in fact look into making the two halves wireless, the primary reason I did not go with that was programming. From my understanding, the best way would have been using the Bluetooth module on the slave half to read the matrix as well and then send the keystrokes via BT to the master half and that can communicate with the PC. Issue here is, I've got no prior in embedded programming and would just hit a roadblock when it came to programming for the BT module. Hence I let this go.
Have you looked into the two halves being wireless from each other? Especially now that you're already adding lipo's to the mix. That was one feature I really want on my build, I have a few "HC-05" bluetooth modules on order to test if they would be fast enough. I would rather the two halves be wireless of each other and the keyboard itself be wired to the PC but that's just my preference.
Would be happy volunteer to attempt an aluminum CNC'd case once the PCB is finalized.I would very much appreciate your help if you can design an aluminum housing for this once the PCB design is finished. As I had mentioned earlier as well, I am infact looking for someone to help me out with the 3D CAD modelling of the case, as I have never touched that aspect of keyboard designing. Thanks!
I have decent experience in 3D CAD/modeling and links to CNC factories in Shenzhen/China since I am located in Hong Kong.
Post by: mrbishop on Mon, 21 March 2016, 10:31:31
Also, do you plan to add circuitry to utilize the battery as a range extender for electric vehicles? I have a prius kit with 300g lubed and stickered shifter knob coming in the mail soon.
LOLed too hard at that. Maybe ;)I was actually just kicking around the idea of making a split 60% after seeing the Vergo Type T. Might just use what you've done already to give my project a head start.Sure by all means, I'm working on testing certain parts out and then should have my schematics complete, at which point, I'll be uploading them to GitHub, and you are more than welcome to use that as a base to start your project. I did in fact look into making the two halves wireless, the primary reason I did not go with that was programming. From my understanding, the best way would have been using the Bluetooth module on the slave half to read the matrix as well and then send the keystrokes via BT to the master half and that can communicate with the PC. Issue here is, I've got no prior in embedded programming and would just hit a roadblock when it came to programming for the BT module. Hence I let this go.
Have you looked into the two halves being wireless from each other? Especially now that you're already adding lipo's to the mix. That was one feature I really want on my build, I have a few "HC-05" bluetooth modules on order to test if they would be fast enough. I would rather the two halves be wireless of each other and the keyboard itself be wired to the PC but that's just my preference.Would be happy volunteer to attempt an aluminum CNC'd case once the PCB is finalized.I would very much appreciate your help if you can design an aluminum housing for this once the PCB design is finished. As I had mentioned earlier as well, I am infact looking for someone to help me out with the 3D CAD modelling of the case, as I have never touched that aspect of keyboard designing. Thanks!
I have decent experience in 3D CAD/modeling and links to CNC factories in Shenzhen/China since I am located in Hong Kong.
i'll also volunteer services in 3D design. and i have a small CNC as well.
Post by: MOZ on Mon, 21 March 2016, 10:51:33
Post by: mrbishop on Mon, 21 March 2016, 11:39:39
Thanks!
any time
Post by: KitWasHere on Mon, 21 March 2016, 16:24:24
Sure by all means, I'm working on testing certain parts out and then should have my schematics complete, at which point, I'll be uploading them to GitHub, and you are more than welcome to use that as a base to start your project. I did in fact look into making the two halves wireless, the primary reason I did not go with that was programming. From my understanding, the best way would have been using the Bluetooth module on the slave half to read the matrix as well and then send the keystrokes via BT to the master half and that can communicate with the PC. Issue here is, I've got no prior in embedded programming and would just hit a roadblock when it came to programming for the BT module. Hence I let this go.
My HC-05's haven't arrived yet but from what I can tell, they would act as a serial port from one side to the other, i.e., their would be a uC in each half of the board communicating through the BT modules, no programming the actual module itself needed. I think it's just a few AT commands at startup to get the two to link to each other, then it should just be the two AVR's or whatever talking through a serial port. Could be a much less feature rich uC on the "slave" side of the board as well, just has to scan a matrix and drive the leds. One kind of big downside to this is having to program the keyboard twice, once on each half.
This is just speculation until I get the modules, but that is what I can tell from my 10 minutes of research before buying a couple to just try it out.
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 24 March 2016, 08:47:14
I tested the WS2812B LEDs and they work fine at 3.3V, I got 32 of them running at full brightness with peak current of 160mA. I now have Teensy++ running at 8Mhz@3.3V with no problem, I am able to load EasyAVR assembled firmware and use it successfully as well as program the Teensy using Arduino IDE to run a string of RGB LEDs. Now to move onto implementing the various features in firmware.
I'll also be adapting this project to a 10-key pad to reduce prototyping costs and hopefully have something usable from the prototyping. Project will be name SAM Pad after the Sundstrand Adding Machine.
Here are the latest schematics (Please ask me lots of questions, so I can pickup as many corrections as possible):
(http://imageham.com/images/2016/03/24/MCU.png)
(http://imageham.com/images/2016/03/24/Matrix.png)
(http://imageham.com/images/2016/03/24/LEDMatrix.png)
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 31 March 2016, 07:02:06
To be able to test the various things, I've developed a numpad, https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=80949
I've been working on EasyAVR and have added a neat feature to it, directly programming the keyboard from EasyAVR, no need to download another tool like FLIP or Teensy. Everything is packaged and ready to use in EasyAVR. You can test this on my fork here: https://github.com/mohitg11/EasyAVR. Check the help for more information. I've started to add support for RGB (WS2812B) LEDs, I've got the firmware running a static LED string with defined colors, but this has to be compiled, not directly configurable from EasyAVR; that is the next step. I'll then move onto adding fancy features like running rainbow, breathing, etc.
Post by: MOZ on Wed, 20 April 2016, 15:54:55
Working on a project at work, it struck me that I had complicated this and the TS65 project too much and had strayed away from the initial idea. I was also working on the cases for both of them over the weekend and realised the TS65 looked rather ugly with the extra bare space on the left side. The final straw was that I've been flooded with a lot of work IRL and I need a split design board to use for the long hours at work now that I've sold my Ergodox.
What this all means, is I'll be toning down both the project. For the SAMPad it only means removing the 3.3V regulator. For the TS65, I'll not be implementing wireless and rotary encoder (As there is no place for it). RGB LEDs, buzzer and trackpoint extension will stay.
Following this line of thought, I've updated the GitHub repo for SAMPad to Rev 0.4 with the changes implemented. I also pushed Rev 0.3 before I pushed 0.4, so it's up there for anyone to explore.
Post by: harlw on Thu, 21 April 2016, 07:22:01
This is relevant here too:Cutting back the scope to maintain the vision and integrity of the project? That's a rock star designer/developer right there my friends. I can't wait for the group buy Moz.Working on a project at work, it struck me that I had complicated this and the TS65 project too much and had strayed away from the initial idea. I was also working on the cases for both of them over the weekend and realised the TS65 looked rather ugly with the extra bare space on the left side. The final straw was that I've been flooded with a lot of work IRL and I need a split design board to use for the long hours at work now that I've sold my Ergodox.
What this all means, is I'll be toning down both the project. For the SAMPad it only means removing the 3.3V regulator. For the TS65, I'll not be implementing wireless and rotary encoder (As there is no place for it). RGB LEDs, buzzer and trackpoint extension will stay.
Following this line of thought, I've updated the GitHub repo for SAMPad to Rev 0.4 with the changes implemented. I also pushed Rev 0.3 before I pushed 0.4, so it's up there for anyone to explore.
*claps*
Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
Post by: Bromono on Thu, 21 April 2016, 08:15:55
looking good
Post by: mrbishop on Thu, 21 April 2016, 09:17:22
I like this a lot, if an aluminum case could be made for it I would be all over itI have absolutely no idea how to use 3D CAD tools, if someone would like to, they are more than welcome to, all the required files are on GitHub.
-----------------------------------------------
Finally the layered acrylic case design is done, here is a snapshot of the SVG file (Uploaded to GitHub)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/5R819rU.png)
As usual suggestions, critics, questions welcome. :)
i'm in the process of simplifying another split keyboard case for CNC machining to reduce the number of layers / complexity of assembly and give an over all different look to cases such as these. if you dont mind i may give this a look as well and see what i can come up with. open source designs of course. if i get anywhere with it i'll link to a share and github repo for it. :thumb:
love the split keyboard idea. looks great!
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 21 April 2016, 13:39:49
Cutting back the scope to maintain the vision and integrity of the project? That's a rock star designer/developer right there my friends. I can't wait for the group buy Moz.(http://i.imgur.com/UIgnGrH.jpg)
i'm in the process of simplifying another split keyboard case for CNC machining to reduce the number of layers / complexity of assembly and give an over all different look to cases such as these. if you dont mind i may give this a look as well and see what i can come up with. open source designs of course. if i get anywhere with it i'll link to a share and github repo for it. :thumb:
love the split keyboard idea. looks great!
I've redone the case for the SAMPad, will be posting it soon. What I've gone with is a top and bottom piece of 3mm acrylic or 1.5mm alu/steel with a middle portion of 8mm or 10mm acrylic piece.
What's different is that there will be an optional 2mm matte acrylic diffuser piece that will sit inside the thicker middle piece, just above the bottom piece. There will be some cutouts for the thicker parts such as USB, reset switch, buzzer etc on this piece. The layer will serve the purpose of diffusing the light to the edges without having a semi-transparent bottom (Which many don't like).
Post by: mrbishop on Thu, 21 April 2016, 13:48:48
Cutting back the scope to maintain the vision and integrity of the project? That's a rock star designer/developer right there my friends. I can't wait for the group buy Moz.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/UIgnGrH.jpg)i'm in the process of simplifying another split keyboard case for CNC machining to reduce the number of layers / complexity of assembly and give an over all different look to cases such as these. if you dont mind i may give this a look as well and see what i can come up with. open source designs of course. if i get anywhere with it i'll link to a share and github repo for it. :thumb:
love the split keyboard idea. looks great!
I've redone the case for the SAMPad, will be posting it soon. What I've gone with is a top and bottom piece of 3mm acrylic or 1.5mm alu/steel with a middle portion of 8mm or 10mm acrylic piece.
What's different is that there will be an optional 2mm matte acrylic diffuser piece that will sit inside the thicker middle piece, just above the bottom piece. There will be some cutouts for the thicker parts such as USB, reset switch, buzzer etc on this piece. The layer will serve the purpose of diffusing the light to the edges without having a semi-transparent bottom (Which many don't like).
cool i'll be looking forward to checking that out.
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 21 April 2016, 14:01:52
Post by: mrbishop on Thu, 21 April 2016, 14:15:14
Oh, forgot to mention, you can make whatever case you want. Once I have the PCB finalised, you can use the PCB outline to make whatever case you want, no need to ask for permission, it's open source for this reason :P
well yeah but its nice to have the creator's blessing :P
Post by: decker on Thu, 21 April 2016, 16:03:03
Thanks for the 65%
Thanks for the ISO support
Thanks for the multiple bottom row (arrows !!!!)
Thanks for the full key programing
Post by: harlw on Fri, 22 April 2016, 01:21:07
Cutting back the scope to maintain the vision and integrity of the project? That's a rock star designer/developer right there my friends. I can't wait for the group buy Moz.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/UIgnGrH.jpg)
Lol, I was serious... I debated and even edited it to sound less sarcastic. Can't wait duder.
Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
Post by: decker on Fri, 22 April 2016, 07:48:01
But I'm on the outside and find the project awesome.
I suppose he was having "creator's doubts"
Post by: MOZ on Sun, 24 April 2016, 11:09:12
cool i'll be looking forward to checking that out.
You can check the layer stack here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=80949.msg2150882#msg2150882
I've got no clue on how to get this in a 3D software so you'll have to bare with the text description. :/
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 26 April 2016, 08:23:13
Will clean up the files and upload to GitHub this weekend. I also intend to place the order for 5 PCBs with PCBWay for the TS65 and SAMPad.
There is no wireless support. I have however, broken out the TX/RX pins for those that really want to convert it to a BT device without adding native support. Power consumption hasn't been optimized to run off battery. This is not "advertised" as a BT device, it is however BT convertible. Personally, I believe if BT has to be added, it should be done properly, ie. power consumption optimised for at the very least of one week's worth of battery, if not at least a month. Having two MCU's, an AVR based one for the scanning and USB communication and another one for BT is redundant, better to have one MCU do all of it (Some GHers have started working on this). Perhaps if there is a good open-source project based around this idea, I would look at redesigning the board for BT around it, but right now, there's none.
Post by: mrbishop on Thu, 28 April 2016, 11:11:11
Phew, I'm finally done with rev 0.6, which is also the third time I've rerouted the whole PCB. I was able to retain the rotary encoder as I needed extra space above the top row because of the large USB 3.0 receptacle.
Will clean up the files and upload to GitHub this weekend. I also intend to place the order for 5 PCBs with PCBWay for the TS65 and SAMPad.
There is no wireless support. I have however, broken out the TX/RX pins for those that really want to convert it to a BT device without adding native support. Power consumption hasn't been optimized to run off battery. This is not "advertised" as a BT device, it is however BT convertible. Personally, I believe if BT has to be added, it should be done properly, ie. power consumption optimised for at the very least of one week's worth of battery, if not at least a month. Having two MCU's, an AVR based one for the scanning and USB communication and another one for BT is redundant, better to have one MCU do all of it (Some GHers have started working on this). Perhaps if there is a good open-source project based around this idea, I would look at redesigning the board for BT around it, but right now, there's none.
you are a beast Sir.
also... i need this in my life... can't wait for the GB ... i hope there will be a GB :))
at least for the pcb ;)
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 28 April 2016, 11:32:21
PCB Render:
(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/mohitg11/TS65AVR/master/PCB.png)
This is what it should look like when assembled. The only minor thing, I'm not too thrilled about tis the position of the indicator LEDs. The reason for the current positioning is the space to the left of the LEDs has the footprint for the encoder. I did a quick test, and second set of LEDs should fit in that position, so you can have it in two different ways depending on whether you are using the rotary encoder or not.
(http://i.imgur.com/8ldUdMj.png)
This is the design for the case:
(http://i.imgur.com/jFxZXZO.png)
Post by: mrbishop on Thu, 28 April 2016, 11:34:55
[attachimg=1]
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 28 April 2016, 12:58:16
Post by: mrbishop on Thu, 28 April 2016, 13:04:32
Pretty much endgame for me..... I think
not sure if my machine can cut this out but i'll be damned if i'm not going to try :D
no idea where to go to get a pcb printed but the more i research the more expensive its looking :/
also will you be able to provide a BOM(bill of materials) for this if its not already on the GitHub?
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 28 April 2016, 13:40:14
Post by: mrbishop on Thu, 28 April 2016, 13:40:57
BOM will be uploaded soon. Regarding the PCB, expect a PM ;)
sweet! you are the man!
Post by: MOZ on Mon, 02 May 2016, 15:13:01
(http://imageham.com/images/2016/05/02/simpleRender.png)
Updated case as well:
(http://imageham.com/images/2016/05/02/case.md.png) (http://imageham.com/images/2016/05/02/case.png)
Post by: MOZ on Wed, 11 May 2016, 04:54:27
Post by: mrbishop on Wed, 11 May 2016, 07:44:27
Post by: MOZ on Sat, 21 May 2016, 05:10:51
-- Changed how the HWBE pin is pulled. Default is pull-down but you can cut the track and then have it pulled-up
-- Changed board outline so that corners are rounded for routing if panelized
I'm waiting for feedback from help-14 (Testing SAMPad, which uses more or less the same circuit) before placing an order for components and PCB.
Post by: nateth on Tue, 31 May 2016, 00:44:57
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 31 May 2016, 03:40:17
Things are moving ahead, I've ordered a batch of 5 PCBs from Easy EDA. BTW, their support is great and they have the best prices online for small orders I'll try to do a proper review of their quality once they arrive, I was impatient and used Express Shipping. Also getting a SS stencil from them. It was cheaper than OSH Stencils.
Parts are also being ordered from Digi-Key (Thanks mrbishop!) and Mouser. Had to order from both as Digi-Key was more expensive and had crazy shipping. Mouser has am office here in India and was cheaper as well cheap shipping using DHL.
I got myself a cheap hot air station of eBay.in to speed-up and ease the process of soldering the boards.Will be using solder paste and hot air for the first time, wish me luck!
Post by: joey on Tue, 31 May 2016, 04:25:20
Update!I look forward to the EasyEDA review :thumb:
Things are moving ahead, I've ordered a batch of 5 PCBs from Easy EDA. BTW, their support is great and they have the best prices online for small orders I'll try to do a proper review of their quality once they arrive, I was impatient and used Express Shipping. Also getting a SS stencil from them. It was cheaper than OSH Stencils.
Parts are also being ordered from Digi-Key (Thanks mrbishop!) and Mouser. Had to order from both as Digi-Key was more expensive and had crazy shipping. Mouser has am office here in India and was cheaper as well cheap shipping using DHL.
I got myself a cheap hot air station of eBay.in to speed-up and ease the process of soldering the boards.Will be using solder paste and hot air for the first time, wish me luck!
edit: they also do assembly :eek:
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 31 May 2016, 05:26:06
Post by: joey on Tue, 31 May 2016, 05:28:25
Yup, this is my first time with them, but they have a a surprisingly decent online EDA (PCB design) tool, fab PCBs, can make SS stencils at prices much lower than elsewhere and also do assembly (Not sure on the minimum order and pricing). Quality based on the photos posted by some of their customers look good, but it's hard to gauge the size of the tracks and vias from the photos. Should have the PCBs in a couple of weeks.I'm actually finding it hard to find reviews or pictures about them.
What is the actual lead time on producing the PCB?
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 31 May 2016, 05:35:21
It's says on the website that they ship in 3-4 days, it's also what I was told by email.
Post by: joey on Tue, 31 May 2016, 05:43:15
Yeah, I couldn't find much reviews as well so I sent them an email, they directed me to this thread, https://easyeda.com/forum/topic/Whos_ordered_PCBs_-L71VduMGY. He gave me a small discount when I enquired about the quality and said 100% refund if the aren't up to the mark.Thanks for the info, I missed that. What did you pay for express shipping?
It's says on the website that they ship in 3-4 days, it's also what I was told by email.
edit: We can take this to PM if you don't want to clutter the thread!
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 31 May 2016, 06:21:04
I ended pay $60 for Express (DHL), which is for the boards and stencil. Stencil has 19*29cm usable area for $19, frameless.
Post by: mrbishop on Tue, 31 May 2016, 08:12:58
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 31 May 2016, 08:34:53
Post by: mrbishop on Tue, 31 May 2016, 08:57:05
Post by: joey on Tue, 31 May 2016, 09:02:52
hmmm. so how did you design the key placement. script? it doesn't support importing DXF files yet. i'm assuming you probably used the SVG.Pretty sure MOZ is only using the PCB fab service, and importing gerbers from KiCAD.
Post by: mrbishop on Tue, 31 May 2016, 09:04:10
hmmm. so how did you design the key placement. script? it doesn't support importing DXF files yet. i'm assuming you probably used the SVG.Pretty sure MOZ is only using the PCB fab service, and importing gerbers from KiCAD.
probably right. i was just tinkering with it as ive never really given it a good go.
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 31 May 2016, 09:08:51
hmmm. so how did you design the key placement. script? it doesn't support importing DXF files yet. i'm assuming you probably used the SVG.Pretty sure MOZ is only using the PCB fab service, and importing gerbers from KiCAD.
probably right. i was just tinkering with it as ive never really given it a good go.
Yes, I used KiCAD for my project, and most likely will continue to do so, irrespective of the attractive offering because I'm used to the interface and hotkeys. They are quite vocal about how they (Easy EDA) provide a streamlined process for creating new products, but aren't restrictive, you can use your own gerbers from some other program for fab, their gerbers with other fabs, etc. Something I was highly impressed by.
/ot, enough about Easy EDA, let's focus on the topic now. I'll create a thread about their service once I have the PCBs and have evaluated them, till then we can continue via PM/Slack.
Post by: SixtyLife on Wed, 01 June 2016, 19:58:25
Love that the TS65 makes it easy offering 2.25u and 2.75u for the spacebars as well as many other bottom row configurations. Can't wait to see this develop!
Post by: MOZ on Wed, 01 June 2016, 20:54:21
You could also do like what I did, order some blank 2.25U and 2.75U blanks in a variety of colors.
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 09 June 2016, 09:47:33
Last Friday I ordered the components from Mouser, shipped same day from US and arrived at my doorstep on Monday. Again DHL and only $20 shipping, although I did have to pay 25% duties.
Post by: joey on Thu, 09 June 2016, 09:49:03
Yeay, PCBs arrived. 3 days for production and 2 days for shipping f4om Hong Kong to India via DHL. Very fast service, also The quality looks great, via are more or less perfectly centered, board is routed perfectly and no charge edges too. I'll try and get a scan done tomorrow.Great news! I'll be ordering soon then.
Post by: mrbishop on Thu, 09 June 2016, 09:51:58
Yeay, PCBs arrived. 3 days for production and 2 days for shipping from Hong Kong to India via DHL. Very fast service, also the quality looks great, vias are more or less perfectly centered, board is routed perfectly and no sharp edges too. I'll try and get a scan done tomorrow. Didn't have to pay any customs fee.
Last Friday I ordered the components from Mouser, shipped same day from US and arrived at my doorstep on Monday. Again DHL and only $20 shipping, although I did have to pay 25% duties.
thats really awesome. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
hope everything works out as planned
Post by: joey on Mon, 13 June 2016, 03:57:31
Post by: MOZ on Mon, 13 June 2016, 04:35:42
Post by: mrbishop on Mon, 13 June 2016, 11:51:58
I've been down with a flu since Thursday evening. Haven't gone to work since, but it is looking good. I should be able to make it to work tomorrow.
oh no!
hope you are feeling better soon!
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 14 June 2016, 14:30:54
(http://i.imgur.com/zVVEfoR.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/TrSiNjw.jpg)
I also designed a USB hub PCB for my new desk setup that I'm planning with the TS65 and SAMPad. The idea is to have the hub as part of the mousepad, which will also have some RGB LEDs using the other PCB below (Firefly) and also has an incorporated Qi charger.
(http://i.imgur.com/fo45x1b.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/x33MMHx.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/hJeklUc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/NTXBTWs.jpg)
Post by: mrbishop on Tue, 14 June 2016, 14:35:10
Post by: joey on Tue, 14 June 2016, 14:40:50
Post by: MajorKoos on Tue, 14 June 2016, 14:41:38
This is coming along nicely.
I can't wait to see the finished product.
Post by: SixtyLife on Tue, 14 June 2016, 15:03:44
Post by: Findecanor on Wed, 15 June 2016, 01:26:37
It looks like the break-away seam at the bottom might be bit too close to a stabiliser mount hole, though.
Post by: MOZ on Wed, 15 June 2016, 06:08:27
MOZ, is this more a personal project / one off or are you planning on making it a group buy? looks fantastic so far!Personal project for now, I intend to make three for myself (Work, home, travel) and the other two PCBs if functional already have takers.
Whoa. Those are a lot of layout options... And all backlit... Two orientations of backlit ISO Return switch and even 1.25×1u Return?There is only one orientation for the ISO return, not sure which is the second one you are seeing. Yes, there is support for 1.25+1U Return.
It looks like the break-away seam at the bottom might be bit too close to a stabiliser mount hole, though.
When I get to building it and snap the two PCBs, I'll have to see if it is too close or just close enough :)) Either way for mass production, I would recommend against any tabs between the two halves, rather have two thicker support bars at the top and bottom with the holes/fiducials/etc according to the pick-n-place assembly machine.
Although, the stabiliser thing just made me realise something that I had overlooked, once I get back home, I'll have to check if the overlapping stab holes are in fact overlapping holes or slots. Slots might be problematic I think.
Post by: Findecanor on Wed, 15 June 2016, 07:33:27
There is only one orientation for the ISO return, not sure which is the second one you are seeing.I was just confused by the pin holes for adjacent switch positions. :-[
Post by: MOZ on Wed, 15 June 2016, 07:38:01
There is only one orientation for the ISO return, not sure which is the second one you are seeing.I was just confused by the pin holes for adjacent switch positions. :-[
Certain parts of the board (Specially the Enter area) are quit confusing with multiple switch positions, LED holes, vertical Enter, stabs, etc.
Post by: mrbishop on Wed, 15 June 2016, 09:23:43
MOZ, is this more a personal project / one off or are you planning on making it a group buy? looks fantastic so far!Personal project for now, I intend to make three for myself (Work, home, travel) and the other two PCBs if functional already have takers.Whoa. Those are a lot of layout options... And all backlit... Two orientations of backlit ISO Return switch and even 1.25×1u Return?There is only one orientation for the ISO return, not sure which is the second one you are seeing. Yes, there is support for 1.25+1U Return.
It looks like the break-away seam at the bottom might be bit too close to a stabiliser mount hole, though.
When I get to building it and snap the two PCBs, I'll have to see if it is too close or just close enough :)) Either way for mass production, I would recommend against any tabs between the two halves, rather have two thicker support bars at the top and bottom with the holes/fiducials/etc according to the pick-n-place assembly machine.
Although, the stabiliser thing just made me realise something that I had overlooked, once I get back home, I'll have to check if the overlapping stab holes are in fact overlapping holes or slots. Slots might be problematic I think.
those look like slots.
Post by: robotmaxtron on Wed, 15 June 2016, 16:38:08
Post by: MOZ on Sat, 18 June 2016, 03:39:03
Yeay, first test build was successful! Hot air soldering is so much faster!
I used Easy AVR to program the board, all keys registering, indicator LEDs working as they should. I haven't got my switches yet, so I just shorted the switch pins to test and it's working.
Also, I forgot the backlight LEDs are current controlled from the driver, so to test the LED I just put one in through the holes and it was BRIGHT! In two seconds it died, 200mA going through a single LED can't be good. THis was the 2x3x4mm LED off ebay, rated for 20mA
Will now try to program it using QMK, and test the audio and RGB LEDs (Still waiting to receive the RGB LEDs as well). Already discovered that to use the buzzer, I'll have to swap the buzzer pin (B4) with another pin (C6) as the Timer 3 is used for the buzzer in QMK. Oh well, will get to it soon.
Once that testing is done, I'll move to building the TS65. Two major changes to the QMK configuration will be,
1. Scanning the matrix on the left side via the multiplexer. I'm going through the configuration for bpiphany's controller to see how it's done.
2. Communication over I2C for the right side.
Once these basics are done, I'll move to adding support for the rotary encoder and testing the trackpoint functionality.
Post by: MOZ on Sun, 26 June 2016, 10:07:27
I received the RGB LEDs and planned to solder them on the SAMPad this weekend and then also solder the TS65. Damn it, at least this weekend and most likely the next are also going to be wasted.
I used the time to go to the laser cutting workshop to get the case cut and my curse continued. Some history, about three years ago I was really into getting cases made out of acrylic, at that time in a span of few months, I was able to damage (In 3 cases misalignment of the laser) 5 lasers. Yesterday, the same thing happened. I was there with the guy, trying to fix it up. The problem occurred when we were cutting the thick middle piece. I came back home at 11 in the night, but the workshop guy continued working late into the night as he had to deliver some goods for other clients tomorrow.
I was however able to get one complete case cut for the SAMPad. Now there was also one more issue, Pune (City I'm staying in right now) is rather small, so I was only able to find the frosted pieces in 10mm and 3mm, rather than 8mm and 2mm. This meant that the flathead screws I had on hand are now not going to work since they are 6mm in height and I need at least 7mm, because 3mm for the bottom piece, 3mm for the diffuser, and then at least 1mm to go into the standoff. Oh well, got to order 8mm screws then. Due to the misalignment problem, there were minor issues in the middle piece, the main problem is that the top surface has a larger kerf compared to the bottom; because of this I'll need to file down some parts of the internal side of the walls of the middle layer to accommodate the diffuser as well as have the screw holes line-up.
Post by: mrbishop on Sun, 26 June 2016, 12:07:07
Post by: rrrsss on Thu, 30 June 2016, 05:15:06
...
Now the exciting news, I've spent my free time the last 3 days flashing a variant of the LUFA Mass Storage class bootloader and now I've got a ProMicro that runs the user application when plugged in and after grounding the RESET pin shows up as a Mass Storage device on the system. So all you have to do is replace the FLASH.BIN and replug the device. Voila!
I'm really happy about this, as it means if the user has a hex file, they don't need any special software on the system, so a web configurator like MassDrop/Infinity would be great with this solution. For a desktop application like JigOn/EasyAVR, generating the bin file and then sending it to the Mass Storage device shouldn't be an issue either. For the super-efficient, command-line to compile the bin file and copy it to the Mass Storage deivce should be trivial.
...
sorry to bring up an earlier post to the thread, but any chance you could make a tutorial to make this happen? I'm sure a lot of people would benefit from this. Thanks!
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 30 June 2016, 05:34:36
Post by: mrbishop on Thu, 30 June 2016, 07:42:01
Tutorial on? Mass Storage bootloader?
are you loading the firmware from the internal mass storage??? because if you are thats kind of like keyboard-ception? also pretty damn awesome.
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 30 June 2016, 09:11:46
The real advantage of a Mass Storage bootlaoder is if you have an online configurator where the the user can make their keymap and then just download and copy onto the storage. If you are using TMK/QMK/EasyAVR, the advantage isn't that prominent. With TMK/QMK, when you setup the environment to compile your firmware, you setup DFU as well and can do "make dfu" which builds the firmware and then flashes it via DFU. With EasyAVR, the latest version comes bundled with the tools to upload the firmware directly.
But yes, with a Mass Storage bootloader, there is the advantage that you need one less tool to load the firmware. Flashing the LUFA Mass Storage bootloader however requires an ISP programmer.
Post by: mrbishop on Thu, 30 June 2016, 09:38:01
Post by: rrrsss on Thu, 30 June 2016, 17:55:56
Tutorial on? Mass Storage bootloader?
On the SAMPad I'm testing right now, I am not using Mass Storage bootloader, however I did test it with one of the Pro Micro's.
The real advantage of a Mass Storage bootlaoder is if you have an online configurator where the the user can make their keymap and then just download and copy onto the storage. If you are using TMK/QMK/EasyAVR, the advantage isn't that prominent. With TMK/QMK, when you setup the environment to compile your firmware, you setup DFU as well and can do "make dfu" which builds the firmware and then flashes it via DFU. With EasyAVR, the latest version comes bundled with the tools to upload the firmware directly.
But yes, with a Mass Storage bootloader, there is the advantage that you need one less tool to load the firmware. Flashing the LUFA Mass Storage bootloader however requires an ISP programmer.
Yes, on the Mass Storage bootloader. Do you just flash the LUFA in? or did you customise the LUFA before flashing it?
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 01 July 2016, 05:40:14
Daniel, has some good information on flashing using an ISP here, https://deskthority.net/wiki/Converting_NerD60_to_TMK.
If you want, I can upload the Mass Storage bootloader when I get back home.
Post by: redbanshee on Thu, 21 July 2016, 11:01:07
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 22 July 2016, 01:05:41
Post by: shhky on Sun, 09 October 2016, 21:43:01
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 11 October 2016, 12:08:50
Anyways, I don't think this will be done for a while now as I will again be travelling for a few months due to work in two weeks. Oh well...
Post by: MajorKoos on Wed, 12 October 2016, 15:57:15
It's been a busy couple of months, relocating to South Africa and then my laptop died too.
Anyways, I don't think this will be done for a while now as I will again be travelling for a few months due to work in two weeks. Oh well...
You'll get round to it just now...
Post by: smokemm on Tue, 02 May 2017, 16:43:55
I have the PCBs now but no firmware for the keyboard. I am pretty clueless about how to proceed with building a firmware.
Has any one built a working firmware for this project/keyboard?
Post by: mrbishop on Thu, 04 May 2017, 12:05:27
Post by: xondat on Thu, 04 May 2017, 12:14:23
the community needs this :thumb:
From what I've seen, 3 split 65s are OTW :))
Post by: mrbishop on Thu, 04 May 2017, 12:16:04
the community needs this :thumb:
From what I've seen, 3 split 65s are OTW :))
this one supports ALPs tho.... do the others?
alps=love :-* :thumb:
Post by: Eszett on Thu, 04 May 2017, 15:09:13
Post by: mrbishop on Thu, 04 May 2017, 15:45:42
MOZ if your still out there we miss you!
Post by: MOZ on Mon, 08 May 2017, 03:00:49
I've been real busy IRL due to work and the travel. Still haven't made any progress on my end, as I had to come back to India for visa renewals. However I do have good news, someone has built the TS65 and they've told me the barebones keyboard works perfectly, that's the most important thing, others are just bells and whistles. I've requested him to update the thread when he finds time.
Thank you and apologies to anyone still interested in the project, it's good to know that people appreciate your work.
-moz
Post by: mrbishop on Mon, 08 May 2017, 08:22:45
if anyone has a full BOM that would be great to help out with getting a quote together for PCB+assembly from a manufacturer.
just want to ensure i select all the proper components ;)
Post by: Eszett on Mon, 08 May 2017, 10:26:20
Post by: smokemm on Mon, 08 May 2017, 10:41:21
Good to know your still doing well Moz.
if anyone has a full BOM that would be great to help out with getting a quote together for PCB+assembly from a manufacturer.
just want to ensure i select all the proper components ;)
The only thing that needs to be updated on the BOM is the addition of designators for the WS2812B's. I submitted a pull request with this updated information.
Post by: mrbishop on Mon, 08 May 2017, 15:20:56
Post by: smokemm on Tue, 09 May 2017, 11:15:04
edit: added some photos
Post by: smokemm on Tue, 09 May 2017, 23:41:04
Please excuse my messy desk :P
Post by: mrbishop on Wed, 10 May 2017, 10:36:50
Ive managed to piggy back off of the track point clock line to have rgb work on both sides. There is something wrong with the current design but should be an easy pcb design fix. Once I have time to update the pcb I will do so and submit a pull request.
Please excuse my messy desk :P
endgame is a meme
but i need this in my life in ALPS!
Post by: xondat on Wed, 10 May 2017, 10:43:44
Ive managed to piggy back off of the track point clock line to have rgb work on both sides. There is something wrong with the current design but should be an easy pcb design fix. Once I have time to update the pcb I will do so and submit a pull request.
Please excuse my messy desk :P
This PCB will be the end of me :))
Post by: redbanshee on Wed, 10 May 2017, 11:06:46
Good to know your still doing well Moz.
if anyone has a full BOM that would be great to help out with getting a quote together for PCB+assembly from a manufacturer.
just want to ensure i select all the proper components ;)
Count me in if you are getting some made, i would love to tinker with this board!
Post by: koduh on Wed, 10 May 2017, 20:40:43
Post by: tinyprawn on Wed, 10 May 2017, 20:41:10
awesome. let me know when its all the way done if it isn't already and i'll start poking around my manufacturing sources for quotes on afew pre-assembled.
I think I'm gonna need a sleek case for this one soon.
Is there a way to have holes in the wooden cases you build that are filled in with translucent material?
Post by: xondat on Wed, 10 May 2017, 20:47:17
This isn't even with all the layouts... Just two on the bottom row. So. Much. Compatibility.
Post by: smokemm on Wed, 10 May 2017, 20:55:22
Post by: mrbishop on Wed, 10 May 2017, 21:02:03
awesome. let me know when its all the way done if it isn't already and i'll start poking around my manufacturing sources for quotes on afew pre-assembled.
I think I'm gonna need a sleek case for this one soon.
Is there a way to have holes in the wooden cases you build that are filled in with translucent material?
i could probably design something to allow for a clear bottom so that the under glow shines out the bottom of the case. lots of ways to accomplish what you are looking for.
having the PCB's makes it easier to design things... hint hint wink wink :p :p :thumb: :thumb:
Post by: smokemm on Wed, 10 May 2017, 21:06:15
awesome. let me know when its all the way done if it isn't already and i'll start poking around my manufacturing sources for quotes on afew pre-assembled.
I think I'm gonna need a sleek case for this one soon.
Is there a way to have holes in the wooden cases you build that are filled in with translucent material?
i could probably design something to allow for a clear bottom so that the under glow shines out the bottom of the case. lots of ways to accomplish what you are looking for.
having the PCB's makes it easier to design things... hint hint wink wink :p :p :thumb: :thumb:
One of the PCBs I ordered was DOA. I can ship it to ya if you need something to work off of.
I know that isnt ideal but the rest are already accounted for. (these werent cheap !)
Post by: mrbishop on Wed, 10 May 2017, 21:32:28
awesome. let me know when its all the way done if it isn't already and i'll start poking around my manufacturing sources for quotes on afew pre-assembled.
I think I'm gonna need a sleek case for this one soon.
Is there a way to have holes in the wooden cases you build that are filled in with translucent material?
i could probably design something to allow for a clear bottom so that the under glow shines out the bottom of the case. lots of ways to accomplish what you are looking for.
having the PCB's makes it easier to design things... hint hint wink wink :p :p :thumb: :thumb:
One of the PCBs I ordered was DOA. I can ship it to ya if you need something to work off of.
I know that isnt ideal but the rest are already accounted for. (these werent cheap !)
that would be perfect! i do want a working one but i can wait. having something to do dry fits i dont have to worry about breaking is always nice. PM me
Post by: carzian on Wed, 10 May 2017, 22:51:05
Post by: tinyprawn on Thu, 11 May 2017, 12:18:22
awesome. let me know when its all the way done if it isn't already and i'll start poking around my manufacturing sources for quotes on afew pre-assembled.
I think I'm gonna need a sleek case for this one soon.
Is there a way to have holes in the wooden cases you build that are filled in with translucent material?
i could probably design something to allow for a clear bottom so that the under glow shines out the bottom of the case. lots of ways to accomplish what you are looking for.
having the PCB's makes it easier to design things... hint hint wink wink :p :p :thumb: :thumb:
One of the PCBs I ordered was DOA. I can ship it to ya if you need something to work off of.
I know that isnt ideal but the rest are already accounted for. (these werent cheap !)
that would be perfect! i do want a working one but i can wait. having something to do dry fits i dont have to worry about breaking is always nice. PM me
I love it when a plan comes together. My wallet is having PTSD.
Post by: MOZ on Sun, 09 July 2017, 06:43:48
Post by: carzian on Sun, 09 July 2017, 12:16:39
Post by: tinyprawn on Tue, 11 July 2017, 10:16:35
Update coming next week!
Woo!
Post by: koduh on Wed, 12 July 2017, 10:44:41
Post by: MOZ on Sun, 16 July 2017, 14:19:21
Post by: carzian on Sun, 16 July 2017, 14:28:00
Post by: MOZ on Mon, 17 July 2017, 06:39:46
Post by: MajorKoos on Thu, 20 July 2017, 11:18:27
Here is the PR to the STL files: https://github.com/mohitg11/TS65AVR/pull/4
It's held together with these parts from McMaster-Carr:
- 94180A307 Heat-Set Inserts for Plastics M2 x 0.4 mm Thread Size, 2.9 mm
- 91294A009 Black-Oxide Alloy Steel Hex Drive Flat Head Screw M2 x 0.4 mm Thread, 12 mm Long
The top bits are printed with Protopasta CF PLA:
- 0.5 mm SS nozzle
- 0.2 mm layers
- 3 perimeters
- 50% honeycomb infill
- Heated glass print bed
The bottom bits are printed with clear Colorfab XT:
- 0.8 mm SS nozzle
- 0.4 mm layers (0.2mm first layer for adhesion)
- 3 perimeters
- 50% honeycomb infill
- Heated glass print bed with PVA - don't forget the PVA or you'll end up with chips in your print bed.
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
[attach=4]
Post by: hoggy on Thu, 20 July 2017, 11:19:30
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 20 July 2017, 11:28:17
This week has been crazy with 12 hour work days, looking forward to the weekend.
Post by: MajorKoos on Thu, 20 July 2017, 11:34:29
@MajorKoos, looks great, do you have a PCB?
This week has been crazy with 12 hour work days, looking forward to the weekend.
Yeah, I was lucky enough to get my hands on a PCB but it's got ALPS switches on it at the moment.
I plan to rectify that today with some MOD-M tactile switches.
I'll post the results once I'm done.
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 20 July 2017, 16:44:42
Post by: MajorKoos on Thu, 20 July 2017, 18:48:54
That's great news, ff someone can test alps, that'd be sweet, although I don't envision any issues.
ALPS worked fine with the laser cut case.
Switches arrived.
I need to rework the stabilizer holes on my model though - the 3mm plate is a bit thick in places for the wire.
Shouldn't take too long to do.
Post by: MajorKoos on Sat, 22 July 2017, 11:22:54
I've submitted a PR to the repo with some adjustments.
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
[attach=4]
[attach=5]
[attach=6]
[attach=7]
[attach=8]
Post by: harlw on Sat, 22 July 2017, 22:41:35
Finally done.Gorgeous! Can't wait!
I've submitted a PR to the repo with some adjustments.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk
Post by: decker on Sun, 23 July 2017, 00:00:31
Post by: UTEster750 on Sun, 23 July 2017, 06:43:21
Post by: Arallu on Sun, 23 July 2017, 12:33:29
Post by: MOZ on Sun, 23 July 2017, 14:57:54
Post by: MajorKoos on Sun, 23 July 2017, 16:00:09
Looks great Major. Which firmware are you using?
I grabbed the keyboard config from here and merged it into the latest QMK.
https://github.com/angus-g/qmk_firmware/tree/ts65avr/keyboards/ts65avr
Post by: MOZ on Mon, 24 July 2017, 10:04:30
Post by: MajorKoos on Mon, 24 July 2017, 10:37:58
Hmm, sounds about what I'm doing. Did you have any issues merging with the current QMK? Do you mind sending me another PR to https://github.com/mohitg11/qmk_firmware ? I'll add a submodule in the main repo later.
Done - https://github.com/mohitg11/qmk_firmware/pull/1
Post by: gerdo on Mon, 24 July 2017, 11:40:12
I need this in my life like yesterday - looking forward to when these are available for purchase!
Post by: UTEster750 on Tue, 25 July 2017, 06:24:08
Post by: mrbishop on Tue, 25 July 2017, 15:13:01
Post by: Marvellion on Tue, 25 July 2017, 17:46:53
Post by: MOZ on Wed, 26 July 2017, 03:59:19
One thing that has me worried with my build is that when I connected it, windows didn't detect any HW. RGB LEDs did flash briefly (Which is expect behavior). None of the USB pins are shorted, and I used my loupe to make sure nothing was shorted on the MCU. Will need to debug with my multimeter tonight.
Post by: MajorKoos on Wed, 26 July 2017, 08:08:34
Build a PCB yesterday, however I'm having issues with my internet, so can't flash firmware as I don't have the tools. @Majorkoos, would you be kind enough to upload your hex file, I'd just like to test with FLIP on my work laptop.
One thing that has me worried with my build is that when I connected it, windows didn't detect any HW. RGB LEDs did flash briefly (Which is expect behavior). None of the USB pins are shorted, and I used my loupe to make sure nothing was shorted on the MCU. Will need to debug with my multimeter tonight.
Sure - here it is.
Think it's perhaps the bootloader?
Post by: MOZ on Wed, 26 July 2017, 08:49:26
Post by: MOZ on Wed, 26 July 2017, 12:16:22
Post by: MajorKoos on Wed, 26 July 2017, 12:21:49
I would not have been able to diagnose that.
Can't wait to see the results.
Post by: MOZ on Wed, 26 July 2017, 14:41:54
Majorkoos, on the hex you uploaded, is the right most key on the second row from bottom not mapped?
Post by: MajorKoos on Wed, 26 July 2017, 17:35:22
Here's the keymap.
Post by: SectorOMEGA on Thu, 27 July 2017, 02:02:33
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 27 July 2017, 02:10:36
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 27 July 2017, 02:11:59
Does any one have PCBs for sale for this one? Really want to buy one, as I'm in Bulgaria and PCB companies quote me a little be too much for this one without any components on it. So I would love to buy one even only the PCB
I might have a couple extras, and components too, but they need to be soldered as well as require some hot fixes (cut traces and reroute)
Post by: SectorOMEGA on Thu, 27 July 2017, 02:14:55
Does any one have PCBs for sale for this one? Really want to buy one, as I'm in Bulgaria and PCB companies quote me a little be too much for this one without any components on it. So I would love to buy one even only the PCB
I might have a couple extras, and components too, but they need to be soldered as well as require some hot fixes (cut traces and reroute)
Soldering is not a problem, but the reroute and trace cut will be the problem. But still if you give me hint on it would love to give it a try :) Give me a shout out if you have some spares and the price for it. I'm in love with this one.
Post by: carzian on Thu, 27 July 2017, 09:16:34
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 27 July 2017, 16:29:43
Post by: Marvellion on Thu, 27 July 2017, 16:38:14
I'll let you guys know, going to be honest, I'd like to do a new revision with the fixes done, some have already been done by smokemm. I would like to send the first versions out to whoever is interested in designing an aluminum case.
That's the best choice probably, I sure can wait for a revised PCB. An aluminum case to go with it would be even better, although for starters an acrylic, Let's split style case would be nice too.
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 27 July 2017, 17:33:25
I'll let you guys know, going to be honest, I'd like to do a new revision with the fixes done, some have already been done by smokemm. I would like to send the first versions out to whoever is interested in designing an aluminum case.
That's the best choice probably, I sure can wait for a revised PCB. An aluminum case to go with it would be even better, although for starters an acrylic, Let's split style case would be nice too.
This is not a GB, the aluminum case I mentioned only because a couple of people have shown interest in building one and wanted a PCB to test things out.
Post by: Marvellion on Thu, 27 July 2017, 18:22:30
Post by: SectorOMEGA on Fri, 28 July 2017, 08:48:45
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 28 July 2017, 15:33:30
As for the board, it's up and running (no surprises, two guys already have one operational before me, pfft).
I'll update the PCB. Regarding the connection between the two halves, would it be better if we used a USB type C rather than the USB micro 3? When I started the project, finding moderately priced reliable USB Type-C cable was a challenge as they weren't that common. Has the situation changed where we can look at this connector for connecting the two halves?
Post by: MajorKoos on Fri, 28 July 2017, 17:57:40
I'll let you know soon enough.
As for the board, it's up and running (no surprises, two guys already have one operational before me, pfft).
I'll update the PCB. Regarding the connection between the two halves, would it be better if we used a USB type C rather than the USB micro 3? When I started the project, finding moderately priced reliable USB Type-C cable was a challenge as they weren't that common. Has the situation changed where we can look at this connector for connecting the two halves?
I've been considering the exact same thing and prices are still insane for a USB-C male-male cable - $25 or so.
Perhaps this will work: https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=103&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030319&p_id=14984&seq=1&format=2
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 28 July 2017, 18:01:20
Post by: MajorKoos on Fri, 28 July 2017, 21:21:11
The SATA connection on my VE.A has held up far better than I expected - zero issues to report.
I use this cable for the connection: http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=445
Post by: MOZ on Sat, 29 July 2017, 05:13:51
Post by: Marvellion on Sat, 29 July 2017, 07:20:48
Yeah, I'm not too sure about SATA to be honest, it's an interface for internal connections that don't see as frequent disconnects. I have had the connector fail on two drive docks, so personal experience hasn't been that great with them.
I heard on the Ve.A thread that SATA cutout was a pain to do on the aluminum cases. Any USB type is probably better.
Post by: MOZ on Sun, 30 July 2017, 06:13:19
Post by: MajorKoos on Sun, 30 July 2017, 09:33:12
@majorkoos, do you have backlight LEDs? For some reason mine are flickering, don't have this issue on my SAMPad, which uses the identical electronics.
@Moz - none of the in-switch of indicator LEDs on my PCB light up - I don't think I'm missing any resistors.
Same firmware as what's in your repository?
Post by: MOZ on Sun, 30 July 2017, 09:56:01
Post by: smokemm on Tue, 01 August 2017, 21:42:03
Also I will be at the NYC keyboard meet up on August 5th with my TS65 (and possibly a few extras) if anyone is interested in seeing it.
Post by: MOZ on Wed, 02 August 2017, 02:44:19
1. The RGB didn't have any effect on the BL - Pin B7
2. Indicator 1 (caps-lock) would cause BL to turn off when led was on - I've switched mine to pin B4 on my PCB. Originally it is on pin C6.
3. Indicator 2 (caps-lock) would cause BL to flicker when led was on - Pin D7
4. Indicator 3 (caps-lock) didn't have any effect - Pin F1
5. Capslock LED indicator didn't have any effect - Pin C7
6. Backlight LEDs are connected to Pin B5. BL was not enabled in the firmware on the github repo, I enabled it on my system. However, the BL are not responding to toggle, step commands. I used hid_listen to check and the command seems to be going through, so no issues with the keymapping.
I've attached a hex file along with the keymap, if someone could test this please, it would be highly appreciated. I've mapped Indicator 1 to C6 as per the original PCB.
Post by: MajorKoos on Wed, 02 August 2017, 09:43:41
I tested a couple of LEDs on my PCB.
No flickering on the left half.
Right half doesn't seem to be getting any power to the LEDs - checked with my multimeter.
Post by: MOZ on Wed, 02 August 2017, 12:28:23
Post by: MajorKoos on Wed, 02 August 2017, 16:38:54
Post by: MOZ on Wed, 02 August 2017, 23:58:21
Post by: MajorKoos on Fri, 04 August 2017, 13:34:35
I'm not sure where I should be probing with a multi-meter to check.
Post by: MOZ on Sat, 05 August 2017, 05:38:57
Post by: MajorKoos on Sat, 05 August 2017, 08:27:13
I did these measurements between the anode/cathode pads for some LEDS on each half.
Continuity testing:
A continuality test between the anodes on either side works. Same for a continuity test between the cathodes.
A continuity test between the anodes on both halves fails. Same for a continuity test between the anodes on each half.
What does succeed is a continuity test between the cathodes on the right and the anodes on the left.
Measuring the voltages:
Anode to cathode on the right = 5.15v
Anode on the right to cathode on the left = 4.45v
Anode on the right to anode on the left = 5.15v
Cathode on the left to anode on the right = 0v
Cathode on the left to cathode on the right = 0.7v
Post by: MOZ on Sun, 06 August 2017, 08:09:27
Post by: carzian on Sat, 19 August 2017, 12:35:37
Post by: MOZ on Sun, 20 August 2017, 02:03:32
Post by: carzian on Sun, 20 August 2017, 11:42:24
Post by: MOZ on Mon, 21 August 2017, 01:33:43
Post by: Nightingale12 on Wed, 23 August 2017, 21:09:17
Would my best option be to wait until you finish the design behind the pcb and then send the files off to create my own pcb? I've also seen smokemm selling some off but I have a specific layout I want.
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 31 August 2017, 11:15:42
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 31 August 2017, 11:35:47
So, Logitech is introducing a keyboard with a customisable multi-function dial. Hmmm
It's interesting... but most of the stuff it does can be done with a keyboard press and the tab key. I feel like it's a shortcut for using a mouse, except the keyboard by itself can already do that.
Post by: CamRank1 on Fri, 15 September 2017, 14:01:49
Post by: MOZ on Sun, 17 September 2017, 15:11:33
Post by: koduh on Wed, 20 September 2017, 16:40:11
Quick update, still need to debug the issues I was having, started as Scrum Master at my workplace, so have been busy with that, but will be getting to this, this week hopefully.We love updates. Thanks Moz for all you do. I'm waiting anxiously.
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Post by: Nightingale12 on Wed, 18 October 2017, 19:48:34
Wondering if anyone has experienced this before or looking for help on figuring out what to poke at to see what is wrong.
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 19 October 2017, 01:26:42
Which PCB did you get printed?
What firmware are you running?
In other news, I moved to a new house and finally just about everything is settled, so I'm hoping to make some progress on this in the coming weeks. Sorry for the constant delays.
Post by: Nightingale12 on Thu, 19 October 2017, 16:14:24
Currently using the hex attached. I got it by following this guide https://docs.qmk.fm/faq_build.html and using the qmk repo back when the ts65avr was still in it.
I tried using a paper clip to jump the column pins on MCU the to the switches but that made the two columns register at the same time.
Edit: flashed with major_koos hex file earlier and that didn't work either. Will have to post what I can get to work next.
Edit 2: Jumping any of the colors in the picture causes both "1" and "ESC" be actuated constantly. I am not really sure that red or blue is helpful but hopefully green is. I have also found that going to from the top of the diode on the switch to the left to the lower pin on the switch will cause both the switch being jumped to and the other switch to be activated only when the key is pressed. Again not sure if this is helpful. Both pictures should be attached, please excuse the soldering, its actually holtites with very small amount of soldered to hold them.
Edit 3: I think my Windows key (S5:2) may be wired backwards. (Incorrect switch picture) Normally shorting the green wire activates the switch, but instead the red wire is shorting this switch. I believe this is causing the row to cross with the column here. Does this sound right to anyone else? Also how would I fix this? I could switch to another layout that works but I only have the one plate right now.
Post by: Ailment on Tue, 05 December 2017, 14:39:31
Post by: MOZ on Mon, 11 December 2017, 08:34:02
Post by: Ailment on Wed, 13 December 2017, 12:54:14
No updates yet, sorry. Super busy at work. Hopefully I can get back on this in January.
All good! Thanks for the info and your work on this.
Post by: Ailment on Mon, 12 February 2018, 22:01:43
Post by: Ailment on Tue, 10 April 2018, 12:16:30
I ordered a few boards from PCBWAY but now that I am gathering components I have run into some roadblocks with items that are out of stock at mouser and .
1. CAP CER 1UF 10V 10% X7R 0805 CC0805KKX7R6BB105 - Out of stock for several weeks. The suggested replacements on digikey are 16V+ variations and I am not sure if that would be okay or not (sorry newb)
2. CAP CER 10UF 6.3V X5R 0805 CC0805KKX5R5BB106 - Basically the same as above.
26. IC DECODER/DEMUX 3‐8 LINE 16SOIC 74HC138D - The NXP one seems to be out of stock but there are a bunch of alternatives, I just didn't see one that matches exactly (does not specify 3-8 line and SOIC in description)
27. LED Driver IC 1 Output DC DC Buck 1A PAM2804AAB010 - No alternatives listed, not really sure what to look for.
Those are the major ones, I am also looking for specific WS2812B but most look like they come on a little board with pins instead of being on their own, the 0805 smd led is similar so I'd take any info on those but I can hunt them down easier than the above items.
Ill throw together some step by steps for the newbs once I get everything to hopefully make this a little more straight forward for the uninitiated. Thanks for any help!
Post by: marhalloweenvt on Tue, 10 April 2018, 20:48:47
Anyone available to assist with the BOM on this?I think you could order them on taobao.
I ordered a few boards from PCBWAY but now that I am gathering components I have run into some roadblocks with items that are out of stock at mouser and .
1. CAP CER 1UF 10V 10% X7R 0805 CC0805KKX7R6BB105 - Out of stock for several weeks. The suggested replacements on digikey are 16V+ variations and I am not sure if that would be okay or not (sorry newb)
2. CAP CER 10UF 6.3V X5R 0805 CC0805KKX5R5BB106 - Basically the same as above.
26. IC DECODER/DEMUX 3‐8 LINE 16SOIC 74HC138D - The NXP one seems to be out of stock but there are a bunch of alternatives, I just didn't see one that matches exactly (does not specify 3-8 line and SOIC in description)
27. LED Driver IC 1 Output DC DC Buck 1A PAM2804AAB010 - No alternatives listed, not really sure what to look for.
Those are the major ones, I am also looking for specific WS2812B but most look like they come on a little board with pins instead of being on their own, the 0805 smd led is similar so I'd take any info on those but I can hunt them down easier than the above items.
Ill throw together some step by steps for the newbs once I get everything to hopefully make this a little more straight forward for the uninitiated. Thanks for any help!
Post by: ErgoMacros on Tue, 10 April 2018, 21:00:28
Best of luck!
Post by: SectorOMEGA on Wed, 11 April 2018, 02:34:37
CC0805KKX7R6BB105-SMD Multilayer Ceramic Capacitor, 0805 [2012 Metric], 1 µF, 10 V, ± 10%, X7R, CC Series-http://uk.farnell.com/yageo-phycomp/cc0805kkx7r6bb105/cap-mlcc-x7r-1uf-10v-0805/dp/3352067RL#
Also found this in Stock:
AP8803WTG-7 - Led Driver, 1 Output, Buck (Step Down), 8V-30V in, 500kHz switch,1A out, TSOT-23-5- http://uk.farnell.com/diodes-inc/ap8803wtg-7/ic-led-driver-buck-1a-5tsot23/dp/1825359
For the rest, Later will go to my shop and ask if they have something more.
Would love to pay you for one of the PCBs
Post by: Ailment on Wed, 11 April 2018, 07:36:49
Managed to find UK waiting for stock of those:
CC0805KKX7R6BB105-SMD Multilayer Ceramic Capacitor, 0805 [2012 Metric], 1 µF, 10 V, ± 10%, X7R, CC Series-http://uk.farnell.com/yageo-phycomp/cc0805kkx7r6bb105/cap-mlcc-x7r-1uf-10v-0805/dp/3352067RL#
Also found this in Stock:
AP8803WTG-7 - Led Driver, 1 Output, Buck (Step Down), 8V-30V in, 500kHz switch,1A out, TSOT-23-5- http://uk.farnell.com/diodes-inc/ap8803wtg-7/ic-led-driver-buck-1a-5tsot23/dp/1825359
For the rest, Later will go to my shop and ask if they have something more.
Would love to pay you for one of the PCBs
Don’t think I’m anywhere close on selling yet but if I can get them up and running I will let you know.
Post by: thread on Sat, 14 April 2018, 15:47:54
Post by: hariseldon on Tue, 29 May 2018, 20:30:53
Can we get the PCB off of OSH Park?
Or are there schematics of the PCB we can acquire and send to a manufacturer ourselves?
Thanks!!
Post by: Ailment on Wed, 30 May 2018, 21:20:31
Post by: Ailment on Mon, 04 June 2018, 17:07:52
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 15 June 2018, 09:53:13
- Microcontroller
- Crystal
- USB Circuit
MCU can be reset by shorting MCURST and +5V
Post by: Ailment on Tue, 19 June 2018, 10:59:50
Have a look at the schematics, bare minimum section are,
- Microcontroller
- Crystal
- USB Circuit
MCU can be reset by shorting MCURST and +5V
Perfect! Thanks for the assistance MOZ. I’ll prob just solder up another one bare bones to test. Ip4234cz6 and crystal have no specific orientation correct?
Post by: MOZ on Sat, 23 June 2018, 07:50:16
Post by: Ailment on Sat, 23 June 2018, 11:36:43
Post by: Ailment on Thu, 02 August 2018, 20:34:27
Attaching a bunch of crap for anyone else.
KLE of the setup [json attached]
[attachimg=1]
Keymap [hex attached]
[attachimg=3]
Switch Hitter layout also attached for testing switches. left ctrl doesnt light up ?? but you can see it on the log, space is just a long 4u piece as it only lit up one half when I had the split setup. FN doesnt register alone so do fn + esc to light up shift.
Also, I have a modified right plate STL that works with my layout. Not sure if it's cool to just attach, I should probably figure out how to use git...
Post by: Ailment on Tue, 07 August 2018, 09:57:24
Current
->| ——->|
<-| <——-|
Desired
|—————>|
|<—————|
Post by: marhalloweenvt on Thu, 09 August 2018, 22:45:52
Here is the temporary fix for RGB in case any one was interested:
Post by: Ailment on Fri, 10 August 2018, 07:57:25
Post by: SectorOMEGA on Tue, 14 August 2018, 03:40:05
Post by: Ailment on Wed, 15 August 2018, 18:02:20
FYI based on the wiring diagram this is how I interperet the flow and it lines up with what I am seeing.
|---------------------Left Half----------------| |-----------------------Right Half----------------------------------|
LEDG2 >> LEDG3 >> LEDG4 >> LEDG5 V| |LEDG11 >> LEDG12 >> LEDG13 >> LEDG14 >> LEDG15 V|
LEDG9 << LEDG8 << LEDG7 << LEDG6 <| |LEDG20 << LEDG19 << LEDG18 << LEDG17 << LEDG16 <|
To fix this I think you would go RGBLDIN >> R24 >> LEDG6 DIN so six becomes the first light in the strip, would have to get rid of the ledg5 to 6 connection.
Then LEDG9 DOUT to LEDG2 DIN and LEDG5 would go to RGBLDOUT plus vdd etc but I don't really follow that flow yet.
New setup would look like
|---------------------Left Half---------------|
>LEDG6 >> LEDG7 >> LEDG8 >> LEDG9 |
^LEDG5 << LEDG4 << LEDG3 << LEDG2 |
Purely an asthetic thing if you use any of the chase style modes but bothers my OCD tendancies I guess :P. For my work board ill probably just use a static color and implement changing color when activating layers so it wouldn't even be noticeable.
Post by: TheVengeance on Thu, 25 July 2019, 03:16:32
I currently have the parts printing. I will get the PCB fabbed from the github, everything fixed / fully working with that design? Any special considerations or things to bare in mind when ordering the PCB build?
p.s Sorry to necro but I'm fairly sure this project is still alive.
Post by: TheVengeance on Thu, 25 July 2019, 03:48:24
Does anyone have a PCB for sale :)Would love to get one.
I'm going to get at least one fabbed soon. It's cheaper the more you buy so if you want in I'm happy to setup a bit of a groupbuy situation.
I know we're probably in different countries but due to the low weight and shape it's probably easy to ship (I also have family in Chicago so I often get them to proxy when I send over gifts etc).
Post by: Ailment on Tue, 30 July 2019, 11:16:24
Moz this is awesome, especially the version with the thumbstick.
I currently have the parts printing. I will get the PCB fabbed from the github, everything fixed / fully working with that design? Any special considerations or things to bare in mind when ordering the PCB build?
p.s Sorry to necro but I'm fairly sure this project is still alive.
Everything worked on my build but I did not try the rotary dial, track point or lcd. I have no reason to believe they wouldn’t though. Only thing I found was the above post, just cosmetic with the way the underglow leds are wired. Some of the components were a bit hard to track down, an update with usb C would be cool but I think this is pretty much stale unless someone else decides to pick up the torch for a revision. There are a couple other split 65s now, I have not looked up full details but they are probably lacking in the bottom row options and track point etc.
Post by: SectorOMEGA on Mon, 19 August 2019, 00:00:19
Post by: sachin3767 on Mon, 19 August 2019, 16:53:48
Phew, I'm finally done with rev 0.6, which is also the third time I've rerouted the whole PCB. I was able to retain the rotary encoder as I needed extra space above the top row because of the large USB 3.0 receptacle.
Will clean up the files and upload to GitHub this weekend. I also intend to place the order for 5 PCBs with PCBWay for the TS65 and SAMPad.
This is an absolute dream board Moz, thank you so much for the efforts put into this. I am digging around now to understand how I can get it built.
I am wondering, why is the rotary encoder positioned above the top row? Is this due to ALPS support on the keys themselves?
Could you not add the appropriate footprint over a key, similar to how the OLKB planck has it in the bottom left corner.
Once that testing is done, I'll move to building the TS65. Two major changes to the QMK configuration will be,
1. Scanning the matrix on the left side via the multiplexer. I'm going through the configuration for bpiphany's controller to see how it's done.
2. Communication over I2C for the right side.
Once these basics are done, I'll move to adding support for the rotary encoder and testing the trackpoint functionality.
Picking up a couple of old comments here. Moz, was the above done? Any advice on how the rotary encoder connects to the PCB?
I guess... I would love to replace key S1:16 with a dial, this would be the ideal location, if it were possible.