Anyone here like Jon Rafman's work? Modern art thread oh noes.

[futurecrime]

Not much modern art talk on here. Understandable I guess but anyway he does a lot of stuff to do with cyberspace, gaming, and keyboards, so I thought some of you might know about him, or might enjoy his stuff if you didn't already know. He's made films inside Second Life and things like that, and works with Oneohtrixpointnever a fair bit.  I went to an exhibition of his a few years ago in London and it was one of my all time favourites.

This is a good one about arcade gaming:

This one is about cyberspace and is NSFW and disturbing:


https://tinyurl.com/phewtln


And some nice images:

[Blaise170]

So throwing a bunch of old crap on a table is art now?

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

So I can never clean my apartment again so long as I just refer to it as 'art'?

I like this modern art thing...

[grimeshark]

Not much modern art talk on here. Understandable I guess but anyway he does a lot of stuff to do with cyberspace, gaming, and keyboards, so I thought some of you might know about him, or might enjoy his stuff if you didn't already know. He's made films inside Second Life and things like that, and works with Oneohtrixpointnever a fair bit.  I went to an exhibition of his a few years ago in London and it was one of my all time favourites.

heck yeah! i've been a fan ever since his Still Life video with OPN, and his 9 Eyes project is some seriously good stuff. his desk arrangements remind me a lot of Sam Rolfe's work but manifested in the real world, i love the aura of discomfort they give off.

[noisyturtle]

See, I'm always torn when art attempts to recreate reality in a controlled way. It's too contrived and fake, in that it's far too close to an actual desktop a messy individual would have or you'd see in a workspace. I've seen some interesting desks in academia, art studios, and even kitchens. Had I just snapped a pic of each cluttered surface would it hold the same intrinsic value as opposed to one painstakingly setup to look the same way?

[tp4tissue]

See, I'm always torn when art attempts to recreate reality in a controlled way. It's too contrived and fake, in that it's far too close to an actual desktop a messy individual would have or you'd see in a workspace. I've seen some interesting desks in academia, art studios, and even kitchens. Had I just snapped a pic of each cluttered surface would it hold the same intrinsic value as opposed to one painstakingly setup to look the same way?

Tp4 prefers Art generated by Neural Networks..

[futurecrime]

So throwing a bunch of old crap on a table is art now?

Anything is art if you label it as art. Then question is whether it's any good.

[futurecrime]

So I can never clean my apartment again so long as I just refer to it as 'art'?

I like this modern art thing...

You can. Trying to get funding is the trick.

[futurecrime]

See, I'm always torn when art attempts to recreate reality in a controlled way. It's too contrived and fake, in that it's far too close to an actual desktop a messy individual would have or you'd see in a workspace. I've seen some interesting desks in academia, art studios, and even kitchens. Had I just snapped a pic of each cluttered surface would it hold the same intrinsic value as opposed to one painstakingly setup to look the same way?

He's used plenty of found images from the web in his work. A lot of it is in the presentation and its existence within the body of work. In your statement you've already said the desks are interesting in some way, which suggests there's some thought provoking territory to be explored there. And I think simulating those setups can reap rewards as well.

[futurecrime]

See, I'm always torn when art attempts to recreate reality in a controlled way. It's too contrived and fake, in that it's far too close to an actual desktop a messy individual would have or you'd see in a workspace. I've seen some interesting desks in academia, art studios, and even kitchens. Had I just snapped a pic of each cluttered surface would it hold the same intrinsic value as opposed to one painstakingly setup to look the same way?

Tp4 prefers Art generated by Neural Networks..

TP gib linx plz to generate further discussion.

[tp4tissue]

TP gib linx plz to generate further discussion.

Tp4 nees borrow m0ar Tensor Cores to train relevance-linx engine.

[futurecrime]

TP gib linx plz to generate further discussion.

Tp4 nees borrow m0ar Tensor Cores to train relevance-linx engine.

TP archetypal struggling artist

[noisyturtle]

It's sad most successful modern artists just hire people to create their works for them. Kinda defeats the entire purpose of being an artist in the first place, don't it?

So the steps to being a successful modern artist are:
Step 1: Have money (or daddy's money)
Step 2: Know people with money

[futurecrime]

It's sad most successful modern artists just hire people to create their works for them. Kinda defeats the entire purpose of being an artist in the first place, don't it?

So the steps to being a successful modern artist are:
Step 1: Have money (or daddy's money)
Step 2: Know people with money

Money defo helps, but you can't buy a talent for abstract thinking. And wrt your other point, I think it's fair when you're looking at something like Damien Hirst's spin paintings which are churned out by his crew (although there's a little 'out' for him there because he's always doing work about the value of art). But it's a cynical move. With someone like Rafman, when he designs an installation or a sculpture, I don't think it's a problem if he get's a team of people to make them to spec.

[futurecrime]

Not much modern art talk on here. Understandable I guess but anyway he does a lot of stuff to do with cyberspace, gaming, and keyboards, so I thought some of you might know about him, or might enjoy his stuff if you didn't already know. He's made films inside Second Life and things like that, and works with Oneohtrixpointnever a fair bit.  I went to an exhibition of his a few years ago in London and it was one of my all time favourites.

heck yeah! i've been a fan ever since his Still Life video with OPN, and his 9 Eyes project is some seriously good stuff. his desk arrangements remind me a lot of Sam Rolfe's work but manifested in the real world, i love the aura of discomfort they give off.

Still life is great. The exhibition had all his videos presented within installations, usually with some strange sensory stimuli, like being in a ball pool or sitting inside a filing cabinet. They all really added to the discomfiting experience. Definitely recommend going to one of his shows if you can/haven't. I don't know about Sam Rolfe though, do you have any links?

[Blaise170]

Anything is art if you label it as art. Then question is whether it's any good.

As a scholar (sort of) of art history, this just isn't true. This is exactly the reason that Fountain (Marcel Duchamp) exists, it's a parody of the art scene at the time where people would call anything art (and is still relevant today).

[futurecrime]

Anything is art if you label it as art. Then question is whether it's any good.

As a scholar (sort of) of art history, this just isn't true. This is exactly the reason that Fountain (Marcel Duchamp) exists, it's a parody of the art scene at the time where people would call anything art (and is still relevant today).

The Fountain was a provocation to shift the focus of art from the craft to the concept. It wouldn't say it's a parody, but it's done with a sense of humour. Nevertheless, I'd be interested to know how you'd define art, if Jon Rafman's work doesn't meet the requirements.

[tp4tissue]

The Fountain was a provocation to shift the focus of art from the craft to the concept. It wouldn't say it's a parody, but it's done with a sense of humour. Nevertheless, I'd be interested to know how you'd define art, if Jon Rafman's work doesn't meet the requirements.

Art is a tough gig'

If you want to paint, there are much better painters

If you want to write, there are much better writers


So the only avenue for mediocre artists to carve out a space of their own is to make weird stuff, which is at the very least (different).

The gallery and auction house setting works like any other zero-sum industry, to sell paintings to make money, to provide tax deductible receipts, or to launder drug/ illegal arms cash..


It is what it is..

[xtrafrood]

So I can never clean my apartment again so long as I just refer to it as 'art'?

I like this modern art thing...

Agreed. I can finally start work on my underhand underwear undulating.

[noisyturtle]

There is something beautiful to behold in personalized clutter, I'll admit. Like going to a worldly old person's home that is inundated with various relics and chochkies from their decades of travel layered over one another along the bookcases - all the way to the ceiling. My dad's house is kinda like that with the amount of books he has crammed into each room creating a much more interesting and intimate feel to the space, what with all the parchment leather and wood. That old world cosmopolitan cluttered-things-of-interest style has unfortunately died out with the modern interest in sleek minimalism.

[grimeshark]

Still life is great. The exhibition had all his videos presented within installations, usually with some strange sensory stimuli, like being in a ball pool or sitting inside a filing cabinet. They all really added to the discomfiting experience. Definitely recommend going to one of his shows if you can/haven't. I don't know about Sam Rolfe though, do you have any links?

yeah! he posts most of his stuff on instagram https://www.instagram.com/sam.rolfes/

also re: neural networks for generative art, i did a stint in the iViz research lab under Steve DiPaola and he has some neat generative art on his website https://dipaola.org/art/. some of it is based on replicating other artists by way of training neural networks, but a fair bit is original stuff. definitely some cool stuff around.

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

So I can never clean my apartment again so long as I just refer to it as 'art'?

I like this modern art thing...

Agreed. I can finally start work on my underhand underwear undulating.

just applied for funding for my dirty apartment to be classified as 'art'

[9999hp]

It's sad most successful modern artists just hire people to create their works for them. Kinda defeats the entire purpose of being an artist in the first place, don't it?

So the steps to being a successful modern artist are:
Step 1: Have money (or daddy's money)
Step 2: Know people with money

I tend to agree with you there; with some popular artists I find myself actually trying to find out if they do the work themselves or just hire crews to build it to specifications; has been difficult to find so far.