Blue label VS. Grey Label

[erricrice]

I know I know, old debate, I just decided I'd share my experience.

So I just came across a grey label 1391401 from '88 and after cleaning it up tonight, I started to type on it.

Right away I noticed a difference.  Since I have been typing on my Minitouch(white alps) I thought maybe that was just me getting used to BS again after a while away.  Then I got out my other 'board, blue label 1391401 from '93 and tried them side-by-side.  

There is a major difference in feel between the two.  The grey label feels much lighter and less kerchunky than the blue label.  I did a few more side-by-sides and what I ended up finding out is that the grey is not actually lighter, it is heavier!

The thing with the blue is that it seems a little bit smoother so that when it actuates it's much more noticeable.  I used my official Rip-O-Meter to test the two and the blue came out at 65g consistently and the grey label came out at 70g consistently.  

I thought this might be a spring-wear problem, but trying all the keys on the blue, including Scroll lock, pause and the like they were all the same.  Also, the feel on those keys is the same as the rest of the keyboard.

Same results with the grey label, none of the less-used keys felt any different than the rest of the 'board.

The feel difference may be because of the case quality or something like that because I also noticed a huge difference in the amount of resonance I got from the case.

The grey is a much quieter 'board than the blue.  In general I do like the blue one more, but I haven't gotten a chance to like the grey one yet, and it is growing on me.  Plus I like heavy switches, so we'll see...

Also, on another note, the text on the grey-label is a much lighter shade of grey than the blue-label(they're basically as black as you can get without double-shot)



Also, for all you crazy kids who don't care so much about these old BS folks, I have some interesting white-alps-ness on the way, soon as my adapter comes in(as long as it's not the XT version, then >.<)

[microsoft windows]

Rivets can definitely make a clicky keyboard change. On mine, I removed some of the rivets to service a key, and the keys in that area (the Ctrl and Alt) sound a little different. But it's not that much of a difference. If I really wanted to, I could fix it with some hot glue.

[wellington1869]

I'm pretty sure my endurapro has some broken rivets, since the right half of the top alphabet row sounds way louder when the keys bottom there, as compared with the rest of the board.
One of these days i'll open it up and do the steel nut-bolt rivet swap on it.  Or atleast the epoxy fix.

[WelcomeToMacintosh]

The Gray label vs. Blue label M differences are of interest to me. I've typed on gray labels and blue labels, and there is a definite difference in key responsiveness. What I mean... When I type on a gray label, the keys have a crisp, more responsive feel to them... more springiness to them. On a blue label, there's a tinge of sluggishness to the key feel, not as springy. The blue labels aren't as good to type on for this reason.

Has anyone else noticed this? If so, what do you attribute the difference to? My thought is that the quality of the springs may not be as good on blue labels vs. gray labels. Could the rivets have anything to do with it?

[maxlugar]

The Gray label vs. Blue label M differences are of interest to me. I've typed on gray labels and blue labels, and there is a definite difference in key responsiveness. What I mean... When I type on a gray label, the keys have a crisp, more responsive feel to them... more springiness to them. On a blue label, there's a tinge of sluggishness to the key feel, not as springy. The blue labels aren't as good to type on for this reason.

Has anyone else noticed this? If so, what do you attribute the difference to? My thought is that the quality of the springs may not be as good on blue labels vs. gray labels. Could the rivets have anything to do with it?

My experience has been that the older Model Ms generally provide a superior typing experience compared to Model Ms manufactured after the Lexmark acquistion in March of 1991.  The silver label 1390120 (the one with no LEDs) has the most robust build quality followed by the white (gray) labels made from 1987 to 1992.  I do have one particular blue label 1993 Lexmark 52G9658 that I acquired NIB which for some odd reason, feels similar to my older gray label Model Ms.

Not everyone feels that older is better with many geekhackers preferring blue label and even Unicomp models.  From what I've read on here, rivets have a lot to do with the different feel but there are also other other factors that influence the feel.

[erricrice]

Yeah neither of mine could even remotely be called new, but neither of them feel worn out either, so take the info with a grain of salt.  Just postin' what I noticed.

[ch_123]

I do have one particular blue label 1993 Lexmark 52G9658 that I acquired NIB which for some odd reason, feels similar to my older gray label Model Ms.

52G = 1391401 without a cable, and considering that it was just at the start of the switchover pediod, they'd probably be the same.

I think build quality also has an effect on sound and force, but the only keyboards that were intentionally designed to be of lower quality than the 1391401 was the 42H1292 and variants based upon it. Perhaps changing manufacturing processes could account for the differences in the 1391401.

[maxlugar]

Lots more info in the "Model M - Black Label vs Blue Label vs Unicomp" post.

Bottom line for me is that if you can buy a NIB Blue Label for the same price as a used Grey Label I'd go Blue Label every time.  

If anyone wants to point out the defects I'd like to hear them.

I gotta totally disagree with the Ripster here because I would generally do just the opposite.

My well worn 1390120 from Jan 1986 still feels more satisfying to type on than my 1992 NIB IBM made blue label 1391401 or my NIB 1999 IBM UK made 42H1292.  

I'm too tired to debate why I believe older Model M's in good conditon are better than Lexmark or Unicomp Model Ms.  Neither can I look at Brandon's beautiful high res pics and point out specifcally what "defects" make many of the blue label Model Ms feel slightly cheaper than the gray labels.  My general impression was formed from typing on a variety of Model Ms for an extended period of time.

Model M's are awesome but they no longer rank as one of my personal top 5 favourite keyboards .  I currently get my click fix with Filco plate-mounted Cherry MX blue keyboards.  I use a HHKB Pro 2 and Topre Realforce 87U when I need to type in "stealth mode".

Having used these "modern" keyboards for several weeks, it felt like I was lifting weights when I tried typing on my beloved 84-key PC AT keyboard this afternoon :hurt:

[itlnstln]

Having used these "modern" keyboards for several weeks, it felt like I was lifting weights when I tried typing on my beloved 84-key PC AT keyboard this afternoon :hurt:

Join the club.  I went from BS to Alps to Cherry browns.  Now, I have a hard time typing on my Ms, because they feel so heavy.

[microsoft windows]

I think I'll get a model F someday after hearing all this good stuff about them.

[maxlugar]

I think I'll get a model F someday after hearing all this good stuff about them.

That's awesome.  

I gave blue cherries a try and was compelled to buy a  second Filco blue cherry keyboard for my home office. I didn't like em at first - they were iniitally way too light for me coming off the 84-key PC AT Model F.  But the light clicks with each key press really grew on me, and my speed is back up to around 80 wpm with significantly less RSI pain.

Now if we could only get kyamei to try a Model F...

[microsoft windows]

But it doesn't talk about the apocolypse.

[maxlugar]

The model F users remind me of Jehovah's Witnesses.  

Always ringing my doorbell and trying to give me pamphlets.

Hey now, I don't wear short sleeve shirts with a tie and I don't ride my bicycle when I make door-to-door housecalls to hand out "free" Model F progaganda.   Maybe I'm confusing the Jehovah's Witnessess with that other group of nice, clean-cut young men who are SO persistent... LSD, DSL, morons, or something to that effect?  

[itlnstln]

Hey now, I don't wear short sleeve shirts with a tie and I don't ride my bicycle when I make door-to-door housecalls to hand out "free" Model F progaganda. Maybe I'm confusing the Jehovah's Witnessess with that other group of nice, clean-cut young men who are SO persistent... LSD, DSL, morons, or something to that effect?

Those are Mormons.

[Hak Foo]

I want to start reversing it when missionaries come to the door.

"Take this book.  It changed my life."  (hands them either "One Piece" volume 9 or "x86-64 Programmer's Reference Manual" volume 4)

[msiegel]

:lol:

[microsoft windows]

I think that the gray labels are better.

[Snowdog993]

I think that the gray labels are better.

Well, I think you're talking 3rd or 4th gen? There is a difference. To be honest the 3rd gen Blue Label keyboards are the same as the 3rd gen Gray Labels in my opinion. They just changed the color of the label.









All of the above keyboards have a lot in common for 3rd generation keyboards. As far as "feel" is concerned, they are essentially the same. However, if they are bad to begin with, you're going to conclude that they are ALL bad. Not true at all.
Here is an example of a BAD M13 that was professionally restored and is fully functional and feels new again!



I even have taken Terminal keyboards and have done controller swaps with 1391401 controllers and added LED indicators on them!





I am still using this keyboard to POST this message:


Unless you're comparing 3rd to 4th gen. That's a different story.

[Aer Fixus]

So, here I was going about reading this post like normal enjoying a good Blue vs Grey conversation. When suddenly:

I gotta totally disagree with the Ripster here because I would generally do just the opposite.

Lots more info in the "Model M - Black Label vs Blue Label vs Unicomp" post.

My, my. Look at that date.

The model F users remind me of Jehovah's Witnesses. 

Always ringing my doorbell and trying to give me pamphlets.

Also, yes Ripster. I cannot argue with this stereotype of a Model F user. It still holds true to this day and I fit it all too well.

I mean, you don't have to like the Model F, but you really need to try an F (or two)...