Bing Cashback Back For Ebay

[skcheng]

Currently 8% off when using Bing as your search vehicle on Buy it Now purchases on Ebay paid with Paypal.    That's a lot and it adds up quickly.  

For those who don't know about Bing (seemingly everyone here on Geekhack), simply set up an account at Bing.com.

Log in to cash back stores.

Search for Ebay under stores listed under the letter "E".  

Click on the Ebay link and purchase any item listed with a Buy it Now.  

Pay with Paypal (which I hate.....but I'll use if I get an 8% discount).  

That's it.  Some cashback payments will be immediate.  Others will take two months.  

Other sites that might be of interest here on Geekhack:

Newegg - 2%
Buy.com - 4-7%
J&R Music and Computer World - 5%
Lenovo - 10%
Office Depot - 10%
TigerDirect.com -  10.4 to 12% (been at 15% in the past)

And tons of other stores.  

Doesn't cost anything and Microsoft doesn't appear to send any Spam for signing up.  

I bought a TV online at Best Buy when they had a 10% discount.  Got $150 cashback into my Paypal account just recently.   Turned that into a couple of keyboards  )

Love to hear if others use this and any (+) and/or (-) feedback.

[hyperlinked]

This is effin awesome. I'm going to be plunking down a nice hunk of change to upgrade to Adobe CS5 pretty soon. This will come in handy for sure!

Thanks!

[skcheng]

This is effin awesome. I'm going to be plunking down a nice hunk of change to upgrade to Adobe CS5 pretty soon. This will come in handy for sure!

Thanks!

Cool!!  Be sure to sign up for the instant cashback also.  You win big time when the auction includes free shipping.  The shipping isn't part of the cashback.

[wellington1869]

i mentioned bing on GH back when it was still called 'ms live search cashback' Bing is great, i rarely make a major ebay purchase without it. Dont know why its not more popular. 8% off the top isnt bad, for very little effort.

[Rajagra]

What's the catch?

That's a rhetorical question, please don't answer it. If you can get 8% off of something you would have paid the full price for that's great. But 'they' have ulterior motives, so read the small print, ask yourself if you are being manipulated.

[wellington1869]

What's the catch?

That's a rhetorical question, please don't answer it. If you can get 8% off of something you would have paid the full price for that's great. But 'they' have ulterior motives, so read the small print, ask yourself if you are being manipulated.

well, the "catch" is you only get the 8% if you search for the product using bing.com which is MS's search engine; its obviously meant to promote their search engine.
I pretty much only use bing for its ebay discounts, so it hasnt swayed me away from google.com yet. I'm sure its a fine search engine but old habits die hard.
I dont know of any other catches; i've used bing-cashback now for over a year at least once a month and the process has been smooth and predictable. My cashback appears instantly in my paypal account within minutes of an ebay purchase.

That's a rhetorical question, please don't answer it.

oops.

[skcheng]

What's the catch?

That's a rhetorical question, please don't answer it. If you can get 8% off of something you would have paid the full price for that's great. But 'they' have ulterior motives, so read the small print, ask yourself if you are being manipulated.

What does the small print say??

[Rajagra]

What does the small print say??

No idea, I've just become very cynical over the years. I avoid schemes that try to manipulate me, even if it costs me money. When somebody offers me something for nothing, I suspect there's a catch until proven otherwise.

An example: I recently had a cold call from my phone company offering a change to my contract that made my line rental a bit cheaper. I checked there were no other changes to prices and it seemed OK. Normally I wouldn't just agree to such a thing from a cold call, but I was still in a fuddled state because they had woken me up. So I agreed. When the paperwork came through a few weeks later, the catch became clear - by making the change I had committed to my contract for another year. Also this commitment will self-renew every year without my consenting to it in any way! The onus is on me to tell them I don't want to keep committing to it. (I'm not sure this concept is even legal, but that's what the paperwork says.)

Now this isn't a problem for me as such. I have no plans to change provider. But the point is you don't get anything for nothing. Not from a business, anyway.

[wellington1869]

well you're right to be uber-cautious (i am too most of the time) but sometimes the cutthroat competition out there actually can work in consumer's favor!
I think this is just a case of MS competing with google's own 'froogle' network of sellers/advertisers. Google also runs a 10% discount program from time to time (during holiday season for instance) if you use the google payment program (I forget what its called. oh yea, its called "google checkout").

[skcheng]

No idea, I've just become very cynical over the years. I avoid schemes that try to manipulate me, even if it costs me money. When somebody offers me something for nothing, I suspect there's a catch until proven otherwise.

I don't know.....I'm never cynical.  I'm just the optimistic "glass half full" type.  I personally don't see any catch using Bing.com.  

I just a Google search LOL on "Bing cashback" and couldn't come with any negatives.   There are already people who have figured out how to "cheat" the system.  

But so far using Bing as a search vehicle hasn't panned out as fully as Microsoft would like.

[hyperlinked]

No idea, I've just become very cynical over the years. I avoid schemes that try to manipulate me, even if it costs me money. When somebody offers me something for nothing, I suspect there's a catch until proven otherwise.

I'm there with you. I usually would rather just pay a competitive fair price than have to work at finding the rock bottom price from a vendor that I have no history with. I didn't scour the Bing fine print and probably should have. I just figured that the catch was the following

• Gets you to use Bing
• Microsoft gets no bull**** hard data about your purchasing habits across the entire spectrum of marketplaces
• Your usage might pad some stats for Microsoft that they can leverage to get more favorable terms with retailers later
• Might help them get you to buy a bunch of **** you don't need
• The discounts may be priced in at some places

Does Microsoft pay the rebate enitrely or does the retailer have to chip in some as well?

I bought a portable hard drive and I wasn't able to use my credit card on it through PayPal. Someone out there is probably claiming part of the fee that would normally go to the credit card company.

I know I'm probably going to pay for this eventually in some way whether directly or indirectly. The question is if I'll end up paying for this behavior even if I don't get the deal.

Also, if this hurts retailers that I favor, I'm not going to make it a habit.

[skcheng]

I'm there with you. I usually would rather just pay a competitive fair price than have to work at finding the rock bottom price from a vendor that I have no history with. I didn't scour the Bing fine print and probably should have. I just figured that the catch was the following

• Gets you to use Bing
• Microsoft gets no bull**** hard data about your purchasing habits across the entire spectrum of marketplaces
• Your usage might pad some stats for Microsoft that they can leverage to get more favorable terms with retailers later

Does Microsoft pay the rebate enitrely or does the retailer have to chip in some as well?

I bought a portable hard drive and I wasn't able to use my credit card on it through PayPal. Someone out there is probably claiming part of the fee that would normally go to the credit card company.

I know I'm probably going to pay for this eventually in some way whether directly or indirectly. The question is if I'll end up paying for this behavior even if I don't get the deal.

Also, if this hurts retailers that I favor, I'm not going to make it a habit.

Why weren't you able to use your credit card through Paypal??   Was it an Ebay purchase?  

I think if Bing cashback hurt ebay sellers, it would be mentioned somewhere.  So far after 100 or so purchases through Bing, I haven't heard anyone complain to me.  

Just thought I'd share Bing cashback with fellow Geekhackers.   It's not like it's a big scam or anything??

I simply learned to save when and where I can.   Sites like Bens Bargains and Slickdeals are the ones to search for discounts/rebates etc..   And they often post good deals that are often even better with Bing cashback.

[wellington1869]

I actually always do a quick google search for the latest e-coupons before i buy anything online. You get some amazing deals that way. techbargains.com is another great site that lists ecoupon codes and online deals. Its been around forever; was featured in a new york times article at one point. I've used it for years.

I also like boddit.com., can search for deals/coupons on a particular product.

[hyperlinked]

Why weren't you able to use your credit card through Paypal??   Was it an Ebay purchase?  

TigerDirect.com didn't seem to give me a credit card through PayPal option. Maybe it was there and PayPal hid it in a new place.

I think if Bing cashback hurt ebay sellers, it would be mentioned somewhere.  So far after 100 or so purchases through Bing, I haven't heard anyone complain to me.

I imagine eBay/PayPal are key partners of Microsoft in this so perhaps eBay is picking up the tab for your discount on eBay purchases, but you have to wonder what the terms are for the other retailers outside of eBay.

Just thought I'd share Bing cashback with fellow Geekhackers. It's not like it's a big scam or anything??

I don't think anyone was suggesting it's a scam, but more of a buyer beware kind of situation in which you are likely to end up paying for your free lunch whether directly or indirectly in the long haul.

You have to admit, it does come close to sounding too good to be true and that's always a reason to move ahead with caution.

[skcheng]

TigerDirect.com didn't seem to give me a credit card through PayPal option. Maybe it was there and PayPal hid it in a new place.


I imagine eBay/PayPal are key partners of Microsoft in this so perhaps eBay is picking up the tab for your discount on eBay purchases, but you have to wonder what the terms are for the other retailers outside of eBay.

 
I don't think anyone was suggesting it's a scam, but more of a buyer beware kind of situation in which you are likely to end up paying for your free lunch whether directly or indirectly in the long haul.

You have to admit, it does come close to sounding too good to be true and that's always a reason to move ahead with caution.

Caution is probably wise in this day and age.   Meanwhile, Tigerdirect is one of my FAVORITE Bing cashback stores.  They've had up to 15% off at various times.  You did something wrong buddy!!   Next time you buy something off of Tiger Direct, I'll go through the steps with you.   It can be a little confusing at first getting Bing cashback to work.    I picked up a laptop for practically "free" after all of the discounts and rebates etc...

[wellington1869]

seriously, you guys are missing out on some truly amazing online deals if you're going to be fuddy duddy. Paypal btw also has some amazing buyer protections. The one time I got ripped off on ebay they refunded my purchase price in a week. They have a $2000 (or so) guarantee on most purchases (the ones that arent covered are clearly marked when you check out).
yea its good to be cautious but capitalism does eventually work, too.

The bing discount program may not last forever either, seems like its simply an ongoing promotion for bing, for now. MS has a lot of catching up to do with google and others.

[Infinite north]

Google searching bing scam I found this:

http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/is_bing_cashback_costing_users_money_sometimes_yes.php

Also saw some complaints about people using the service and it not functioning so they didn't get the rebate. There is also the obligatory http://bingcashbackscam.com/. Looking through it I couldn't even see why it was set up in the first place, just looks like someone needed a domain to hate the service in. I USED BING CASH BACK AND IT LEFT THE NEXT MORNING AND NEVER RETURNED MY CALLS.

[skcheng]

Google searching bing scam I found this:

http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/is_bing_cashback_costing_users_money_sometimes_yes.php

Also saw some complaints about people using the service and it not functioning so they didn't get the rebate. There is also the obligatory http://bingcashbackscam.com/. Looking through it I couldn't even see why it was set up in the first place, just looks like someone needed a domain to hate the service in. I USED BING CASH BACK AND IT LEFT THE NEXT MORNING AND NEVER RETURNED MY CALLS.

I've never not received my Bing cashback.   And even when I didn't do things correctly (initially), Bing support still credited my account.

So I'm assuming you've never used Bing cashback before??   Like anything else  (Paypal for ex), it's not perfect.   But how can you lose if you get 8% back for every Ebay purchase you make??   It's not like Ebay sellers are jacking things up 8% to compensate?

[kishy]

How is the discount applied? A PayPal coupon code, adjusted total in checkout, or a separate payment back to your PayPal account after checking out?

[skcheng]

How is the discount applied? A PayPal coupon code, adjusted total in checkout, or a separate payment back to your PayPal account after checking out?

You have a choice of Paypal reimbursement, mailed payment and I think direct deposit into a checking account IIRC.   I've only used the Paypal option and the money is usually spent as soon as it hits  

[nowsharing]

Don't use your cashback rewards on small purchases though, because you're limited to 100 on Ebay. I used all of mine up without realizing there was a limit.

[kishy]

Screw that, I'd do a monthly cash out to my bank account (or do they limit those as well?)

[skcheng]

Don't use your cashback rewards on small purchases though, because you're limited to 100 on Ebay. I used all of mine up without realizing there was a limit.

Didn't know that.  Thanks for the info.   I probably have 30 this year so far on ebay.   Mostly keyboards LOL.

[wellington1869]

Didn't know that.  Thanks for the info.   I probably have 30 this year so far on ebay.   Mostly keyboards LOL.

yea i didnt know that either, good to know.
I'm probably doing about 20 a year right now.

[tamasrepus]

Good to know The eBay/Paypal cashback thing is back, it looked for a while that Microsoft had killed it—cashback links haven't been showing up for some two weeks.

cashbackr.com has a trend graph of cashback percentages so you can see how it's been fluctuating lately.

[wellington1869]

my standard search term on bing is "t43". the ebay 8% link has always shown up when i do that.
I heard tho that if you do a few purchases rapidly in a row that the cashback drops to 5% and so on. If you wait a week or so it comes back up to 8%. There's some formula that seems to determine the actual cashback percentage based on usage probably. At my usage rates tho i've always gotten 8% at least, from ebay anyway.

[hyperlinked]

So.... I think we've answered a question that nobody was really asking. I think we've pretty well established that it's not hard to get your cash back.

The question is whether this is simply a very aggressive way for Microsoft to gain marketshare for their search engine and place a check on the growth of Google Checkout at the same time or is the data being collected going to end up toward some sinister end somewhere down the road?

Or perhaps Microsoft already understands something about the people who would be attracted to this that the rest of us don't. For example, when I buy something through a discount program, they're things that have been on my shopping list for months or they're things I really need urgently. They money I get back almost never turns into an unplanned purchase. I'm probably not a very valuable user to them unless the cost of giving me a discount is that I have a friend, skcheng, who finds out about it through me and he's likely to think of other things he could now buy with the extra money he got back.

Of course, the scenario unfolded in reverse in this case, but it's a plausible objective and one that I'd be comfortable with if it was part of the rationale for the service because then my participation may give MS some market research, but otherwise won't come back to silently bite me a year or two from now. My modest savings would be subsidized by the extra shopping that Chenger's doing.

[izzypizzy]

Bing CB is great. I've gotten close to $200 in CB from tigerdirect this year, it took a couple months, but I was e-mailed each time it was ready, and I deposited it directly into my checking account.

[tamasrepus]

The question is whether this is simply a very aggressive way for Microsoft to gain marketshare for their search engine and place a check on the growth of Google Checkout at the same time or is the data being collected going to end up toward some sinister end somewhere down the road?

Google Checkout is a completely different product from Bing Cashback. Apples and oranges.

I'm not sure why the data collected is any more sinister than data collected for normal searches or the data collected for any of Microsoft's more popular web destinations... it's worth pointing out that Bing has a 6-month data retention policy, beating out Google's 9 months.

Or perhaps Microsoft already understands something about the people who would be attracted to this that the rest of us don't. For example, when I buy something through a discount program, they're things that have been on my shopping list for months or they're things I really need urgently. They money I get back almost never turns into an unplanned purchase. I'm probably not a very valuable user to them unless the cost of giving me a discount is that I have a friend, skcheng, who finds out about it through me and he's likely to think of other things he could now buy with the extra money he got back.

Of course, the scenario unfolded in reverse in this case, but it's a plausible objective and one that I'd be comfortable with if it was part of the rationale for the service because then my participation may give MS some market research, but otherwise won't come back to silently bite me a year or two from now. My modest savings would be subsidized by the extra shopping that Chenger's doing.

There are an arbitrary number of business strategies Microsoft may be trying.

IMHO, it's a way for Microsoft to get people to use Bing for product searches instead of Google. People doing product searches are usually signaling an intent to buy something, which drives up the rates for those keyword advertisements on Bing.

[hyperlinked]

Google Checkout is a completely different product from Bing Cashback. Apples and oranges.

I brought that up as a possible rationale because the Bing search engine's most direct competitor is Google and Google Payments is the most directly competitor to one of the major partners in Bing Cashback, eBay/PayPal.

I'm not sure why the data collected is any more sinister than data collected for normal searches or the data collected for any of Microsoft's more popular web destinations... it's worth pointing out that Bing has a 6-month data retention policy, beating out Google's 9 months.

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that Bing Cashback is more sinister. It was just a generalization and I'm not ranting against Bing Cashback... just thinking out loud about a range of possibilities.

[kishy]

I'm not understanding something here.

I go to the appropriate Bing page, sign in with my Live account, find eBay in the list...but if I click go to store it takes me to ebay.com. Why am I not seeing a list of products available on ebay on bing? Am I supposed to search for a product I want then try to find one of it on ebay instead? If so that's crap.

I don't use ebay to find specific items, I use ebay to find contents of particular categories and buy items that interest me. Bing doesn't seem to be applicable to this type of usage.

[wellington1869]

I'm not sure why the data collected is any more sinister than data collected for normal searches or the data collected for any of Microsoft's more popular web destinations...

i was thinking this too.  MS isnt a brand no one's ever heard of, nor is this service "new". They are well watched in the blogosphere, and there will be outcry if they stray too far from the norm, just as there's outcry about facebook's privacy policy changes right now. Yes, proceed with caution, but I dont see any reason to think Bing is beyond the pale in any of its current policies. You're always welcome to actually read the fine print if thats the concern, or google them thoroughly until you're satisfied.

I just logged into my bing account, so far i've made $156.10 thru bing's cashback program. Thats straight cash straight into my paypal account. Since i dont expect them to be particularly sinister, and I did research this to the usual degree before i joined, and am willing to take whatever small normal internet risk there is with any internet-based program -- you know what? I'll take that $156.10 :-D

[wellington1869]

I'm not understanding something here.

I go to the appropriate Bing page, sign in with my Live account, find eBay in the list...but if I click go to store it takes me to ebay.com. Why am I not seeing a list of products available on ebay on bing? Am I supposed to search for a product I want then try to find one of it on ebay instead? If so that's crap.

I don't use ebay to find specific items, I use ebay to find contents of particular categories and buy items that interest me. Bing doesn't seem to be applicable to this type of usage.

hey kishy, yes, what makes this so flexible is that you're not limited to what BING "offers" as products; you're only limited to anything you can find on ALL of ebay, which is to say, pretty much anything ever invented.

So here's what i do:

1. go to bing.com and make sure you're signed in (sign in link in upper right corner of screen). You'll need a live.com account with MS if you dont already have one, as your login here.

2. search for a product using the bing search engine. For instance, i simply type in 't43' into the search box. hit enter.

3. one of the top 2 returns will be in the sponsored sites box listed as 'ebay.com' and it'll say "Buy T43. You may get 8% off with PayPal if eligible." Click that link.

4. That takes you to ebay. notice the little "gold coin" icon.  That icon will appear on every ebay page during the next 1 hour of your ebay session. You have one hour in which to buy something. (If you're "not ready", simply FIRST find what you want to buy, and write down its ebay item number,and when you're ready to buy it, THEN do these steps. You can re-find your item by simply entering that ebay item number into the ebay search box on the ebay site).  Bing doesnt care if you jump around the ebay site once you're there. You'll still get credit for anything you wind up buying.

5. Notice also: a) you have to checkout with paypal. As you check out, there will be multiple indications that you'll be getting the bing discount on taht purchase, various icons on the screen, starting iwth that gold coin icon, and various other 'badges' that will appear during checkout. Google for the process if you have doubts, i'm sure people have put up pics, else i'll put up pics for you.  b) it has to be a 'buy it now' purchase. This wont work on auctions. has to be 'buy it now' (ie, fixed price).

6. search ebay for your product as you normally would. filter by 'buy it now' and buy it. check out via paypal as you normally would.

7. If you're new to bing, it may take up to 2 months before you get your cashback. You can log into your bing account at any time and verify that you got credit for the purchase. you'll also get numerous email reminders - one saying you got credit for it; when it becomes cash and is deposited into your paypal acct (if you chose that option which i recommend) you'll also get an email reminder that its been deposited. You can also log into your bing account and see how many days before it'll be deposited. The tracking of the cashback is superb, lots of ways to see exactly where in the process your cashback is at right now.    

8. Once you've had a certain number of purchases under your belt, you'll find the cashbacks are "instant". When i buy something this way today, the cash appears in my paypal account within 2 minutes.

9. Only ebay/bing works this way. For other normal stores -- for example, tigerdirect.com, simply login at bing.com, then click on the 'shopping' link, left side of bing.com website, and click on "T" alphabetical search and scroll down to tigerdirect.com listing. Then click on that tigerdirect link. It takes you to the tigerdirect website, with a gold coin icon again or some badge indication that in that session whatever advertized discount bing offered will apply to your purchase (so long as you checkout with paypal i believe).

hope that helps.

[wellington1869]

I don't use ebay to find specific items, I use ebay to find contents of particular categories and buy items that interest me. Bing doesn't seem to be applicable to this type of usage.

I dont get why bing isnt applicable? So find what you want to buy, and right before you buy it, go thru the steps above and pay with paypal. Presto, 8% off whatever you wanted to buy.

[kishy]

Yeah I think it does (help, that is - you ninja-doubleposted)

In this usage method you've described, it's basically cheating bing, correct? Since you aren't actually using bing to search for the product you ultimately want...

As long as it works, it's good in my book. I really like ebay's search and filtering facilities as they are and I hate "more intuitive" search engines because they screw with the results I expect to get.

[wellington1869]

Yeah I think it does (help, that is - you ninja-doubleposted)

In this usage method you've described, it's basically cheating bing, correct? Since you aren't actually using bing to search for the product you ultimately want...

not at all; MS can prevent this behaviour if they want quite easily, but they obviously chose not to. Seems like designed behaviour to me. Bing probably still gets credit for having sent you to ebay in the first place from their search engine site, which in fact they did, after all.

As long as it works, it's good in my book. I really like ebay's search and filtering facilities as they are and I hate "more intuitive" search engines because they screw with the results I expect to get.

i agree, i always do my searching on ebay alone, and when i'm ready to buy, i do this process to go to ebay via bing.  MS's hope is that one day i'll just start using bing on my own for non-purchases. Thats the idea of promotions like this. Well, lets see if it'll happen. So far i'm still a google guy for normal searches, but you know what, as a result of this promotion, I'm definitely more bing-aware, arent I? So their promotion does work, in that sense.

I'll say this, too, for bing -- i like how videos can play directly on the search results page. And if it wasnt for this promotion i wouldnt ever have visited bing.com and ever have noticed that.  This sort of exposure is worth a lot for companies like MS.  So we both win. They've introduced me to bing, and for my part I get a fabulous discount. Long live capitalism.

[Rajagra]

In this usage method you've described, it's basically cheating bing, correct?

Sounds to me like it's working as intended. I.e. eBay is working in cahoots with Bing.

[wellington1869]

Also note that the process is quite sophisticated. for example: if you're thinking that someone can just buy things, get 8%, and then return the things and keep the 8%, well it doesnt quite work that way. If you return the item paid with paypal/bing within 90 days, the return is processed via paypal, and the bing cashback comes back out of your paypal account. So they do have some built-in scam protection.

[wellington1869]

whats crazy about this thing, and the reason it got so much buzz initially, is when they first launched it, they were offering an incredible 30% off ebay, and that wasnt just for the first purchase, it was for like the first month. It was truly insane. I caught some of that, they were reducing the cashback by 5% every month or so, and I caught a couple of 25% off purchases, which was really amazing on a big item.

It basically went down rapidly tho but has been "stable" at 8% for at least a year now. Which is pretty good still if you dont have a better ecoupon available.  During xmas holiday season i've seen it spike to 15%.

sites like the one tamasrepus mentioned above, track the bing discount level and can notify you if it spikes, which is handy during holiday season anyway.

[wellington1869]

as far as why MS would do something like this -- I'd argue a promotion like this is more cost effective as advertizing for a service like bing. its probably cheaper than expensive television ads blanketing the nation for months; and better than a tv ad, it got me to interact with the site in person. More effective, more bang for the buck than traditional advertizing. I think thats why they continue to do it. Compared with the cost/effectiveness of traditional advertizing, it actually probably makes economic sense for them to do it this way via this promotion. So long as MS is committed to bing.com, they already have an advertizing budget for it. Plus deals with individual retailers to share the cost i'm sure, which most retailers are probably glad to do with their own advertizing budgets.

I certainly started checking out tigerdirect.com much more often because I know there is a reliable decent discount to be had thru this program. Even if I dont happen to buy something there in a given instance, I still visit and their site gets exposure.

[wellington1869]

lastly, this is also why smaller retailers (lets say keyboard retailers for instance) should crosslist their stuff on an ebay storefront if possible.

DSI has an ebay storefront and i did wind up buying 2 boards from them via ebay, and yep you guessed it, with 8% off each time, which definitely made it slightly easier to pull the trigger.

[wellington1869]

What happens if you automated snipe on Ebay?  

doesnt work for auctions. the discount program only applies to 'buy it now' fixed price sales.

I'll just stick to my 1% automatic cash back credit card.   I'm lazy.  Plus, I KNOW my credit card company is evil.

chase has a 5% cashback credit card, incidentally

I like my amazon.com credit card. Every 2k i spend i get $25 coupon for amazon. Which is like every three months basically since i use it for everything

[Rajagra]

The Internet has a proud history of awful business models ("Yes, we're losing a million dollars a month, but we've only been running for 3 years, things will turn around eventually...") and I guess MS aren't immune to these failings. I won't tell them if you don't.

(But I still think these schemes are inherently evil. MS/Bing are working with eBay/Paypal, and this is pushing up prices one way another so you are getting an 8% discount on an artificially inflated price, so other people are losing out even if you aren't. I prefer not to be a collaborator.)

[wellington1869]

 MS/Bing are working with eBay/Paypal, and this is pushing up prices one way another so you are getting an 8% discount on an artificially inflated price, so other people are losing out even if you aren't. I prefer not to be a collaborator.)

dude, this just isnt true.  you can in fact buy from those "other people". In fact, you can buy from any seller (including private individuals) who list on ebay, and still get the bing cashback.  Those private individuals have nothing to do with the ebay/paypal/bing deal other than that they happened to have listed, for their own personal reasons, their item for sale on ebay, which millions of people do every year anyway.

You're no more a 'collaborator' than if you bypassed the bing deal and simply went on ebay and bought an item from a private individual. There is no difference to that individual. That individual did not call MS and jack up his personal price just because they know you're coming along and are planning on using bing. That individual set his price for his own reasons and would have set that price regardless of whether you use bing or not.

if you're accusing ebay/paypal/bing of "jacking up listing fees" on ebay to get their 8% back, I dont think thats true either. Ebay listing fees didnt go up 8% when bing started.  Whether you like ebay listing fees or not is a different topic; every one on ebay does pay them and have paid them since the inception of ebay.

If you're saying that in some grand milton friedman style social trickle-down theory of economics, that that 8% is eventually and ultimately paid by "the consumer", thats true for all sales anywhere, all discounts anywhere, no matter their source. There's nothing there that is unique to bing. Welcome to the cost of participating in a capitalist economy.

I've never in my life met a bunch of people so insistent on not getting a free discount. It blows my mind  Right down to the "I'd rather not 'collaborate' on a sales event!' argument, which frankly I dont think i've even ever heard that line before! Most people I know are delighted with sales events. Collaboration? Jesus christ. You make it sound like i'm complicit with the third reich if I buy toothpaste thats been marked down in this week's Walgreen's sales flyer. I mean, what?!

I can see Raj marching into Walgreens, and insisting on paying the extra dollar for the toothpaste. The manager, confused, queries him: Sir, you dont understand, Pepsodent is on sale for $2 this week!
Raj: No thank you. I'd like to pay the usual $3 please.
Manager: But sir... you dont understand, thats our price this week for pepsodent! I dont think it will even ring up at the register for $3!
Raj: I'd like to pay $3, please.
Manager: But you can have it for $2! Its on sale!
Raj: You lie! The consumer will eventually pay $3! I do not wish to "collaborate" in your "sale". I'll pay $3, thank you very much!
Manager: But sir! The price of Pepsodent is in fact $2 this week!
Raj: Look. I'm going to put the extra dollar on the counter. You can take it while I look away. No questions asked and no questions answered!
Manager: Sigh. *walks to back room and shoots self in the head*.


On sale this week (except for Raj):

[hyperlinked]

In this usage method you've described, it's basically cheating bing, correct? Since you aren't actually using bing to search for the product you ultimately want...

Ok, Kishy... I think you just brought up the part that wasn't making any sense to me and I'm starting to see something here.

I had the same thoughts as Kishy when I got my cashback pending notice. My first thought was, "I don't see how this benefits Bing. I didn't have to use Bing to search to find my deal. My usage of Bing was just incidental and does nothing to make me more likely to use Bing and less likely to use Google for my next search."

A lot of these companies that are participating in the Bing Cashback program are also vendors that frequently occupy top spots in Google AdWords. Hanging onto those 1, 2, and 3 spots in the search engine ads get expensive and you'll have to suffer through a lot of clicks that don't earn you anything.

Google's search, as good as it is isn't what's making them impossible to move out of their throne. It's their combined mastery of search and search advertising delivery that makes them so powerful because it presents a near endless stream of cash.

I don't think this is about digital vs. expensive TV advertising as Welly thinks it is. That's a different animal and the cannibalization that the Internet has had on broadcast and print advertising has already peaked. Companies rich enough to buy into broadcast and print markets are probably not looking at this as an either or proposition. If you have the money and you believe that broadcast advertising will translate into sales for you, odds are that you're going to do it... and you'll do the online advertising too.

This is a digital vs digital battle. It's about Microsoft vs Google. If Bing Cashback becomes wildly successful, it could subvert the search engine advertising market that is making Google so powerful.

If you think about it, it's rather amazing that Google is able to make so much money on the red-headed stepchild of Internet advertising: the pay-per-click ad. Before Google, nobody wanted to buy into a pay-per-click ad market because they'd rather go with a cost per impression or pay a affiliate percentages on sales that completed.

What's interesting is that it wouldn't matter if Google created their own Google Cashback and overtook Bing's Cashback because decoupling the money from search creates a big time short circuit in Google's business model in which Search, AdWords, and AdSense form a perpetual motion money machine.

Then again, as Ray pointed out, the Internet is full of really ****ty business models that take utmost faith to believe in and there could be a much simpler reason behind Bing Cashback: Pompous idiots are at the helm.

[hyperlinked]

chase has a 5% cashback credit card, incidentally

We are all paying for that 5% cashback reward. Ray is right about that one. A chunk of that cashback is coming from the merchant who is getting charged higher fees whenever you use that card as opposed to a Visa card with no cashback benefits. Over time, that likely translates into a need to bump up the prices a little elsewhere to keep the doors open.  

I don't pay by credit card at mom n' pop shops if I can help it anymore. I try to remember to bring cash and a checkbook. I'd rather that more of my money stays with them and less of it goes to the bank. If that means that I end up losing $5 in air miles and the shop gets to avoid $5 in fees, I'm fine with that.

The age of extra bonus reward cards as we know it may be coming to an end in the US. In some legislation getting worked on in the financial reform overhaul, it dilutes the power of credit card companies' power to impose terms and charges on merchants. Businesses may start charging one price for cash purchases and a special price indexed against the cost of supporting certain credit cards.

I've already seen a store or two offering their customers a discount for making their purchases in cash.

I'm of the same mind as Ray when it comes to psychological schemes to get me to feel good about spending more money. Screw the dog and pony show. I just want a fair price, but I'm not going to opt out all the time because I don't believe the problem will go away if I refuse to play... at least when it comes to the Internet marketplace. If we're talking about the local marketplace, it's a different story.

[wellington1869]

We are all paying for that 5% cashback reward. Ray is right about that one. A chunk of that cashback is coming from the merchant who is getting charged higher fees whenever you use that card as opposed to a Visa card with no cashback benefits. Over time, that likely translates into a need to bump up the prices a little elsewhere to keep the doors open.  

I don't pay by credit card at mom n' pop shops if I can help it anymore. I try to remember to bring cash and a checkbook. I'd rather that more of my money stays with them and less of it goes to the bank. If that means that I end up losing $5 in air miles and the shop gets to avoid $5 in fees, I'm fine with that.

The age of extra bonus reward cards as we know it may be coming to an end in the US. In some legislation getting worked on in the financial reform overhaul, it dilutes the power of credit card companies' power to impose terms and charges on merchants. Businesses may start charging one price for cash purchases and a special price indexed against the cost of supporting certain credit cards.

I've already seen a store or two offering their customers a discount for making their purchases in cash.

I'm of the same mind as Ray when it comes to psychological schemes to get me to feel good about spending more money. Screw the horse and pony show. I just want a fair price, but I'm not going to opt out all the time because I don't believe the problem will go away if I refuse to play... at least when it comes to the Internet marketplace. If we're talking about the local marketplace, it's a different story.

Lol, Ok, in the pepsodent example above, replace Ray's name with yours :-D Seriously thats what youre saying ultimately. And thats fine, a lot of people also put their cash in their mattresses and only buy locally. Some of that is noble, some of it can be quite flakey and paranoid. I guess i'm not there yet. I'll take the cashbacks and i'll buy pepsodent on sale

[wellington1869]

Pay the bill monthly on time every month and you are basically screwing over the credit card company.

true dat; i do, always. And I like that i get to screw over the credit card company and get their benefits. I dont have any sympathy for large faceless evil corporations but i'll benefit from their economies of scale and purchasing power if I can.

Show Image

one of my favorite movies of all time.

[hyperlinked]

Lol, Ok, in the pepsodent example above, replace Ray's name with yours :-D Seriously thats what youre saying ultimately. And thats fine, a lot of people also put their cash in their mattresses and only buy locally. Some of that is noble, some of it can be quite flakey and paranoid. I guess i'm not there yet. I'll take the cashbacks and i'll buy pepsodent on sale

Where Ray's point and mine splits is that it appears that he'll opt-out on principle. I'm not convinced that opting out on principle always has an effect so I'll pick and choose when I choose not to play the game. I may feel infantalized by all the games played to get to me overestimate the real price of something that's on "discount", but I accept it as something you just have to put up with.

I'm also not so sure that this program is necessarily going to drive up costs because what I think Bing is trying to do most likely supplants an expense (AdWords) that is already factored into Internet retail pricing models. I do see some sense in what he's saying because if Bing Cashback like programs become the way everyone expects to shop online, then prices most definitely will inflate. I just don't think that will happen and as I explained above, I see strategic reasons for why Microsoft would want to do this in their fight against Google.

The Pepsodent story is silly in the context of anonymous chain retail and Internet retail, but in the context of local shopping it might not be so idiotic. Not every retailer competes on price alone and I appreciate the value and convenience of a good store with people I trust and fair pricing across the board so I'll pay a little extra even if I could get it cheaper online or down the street at some place that doesn't treat me like a human being. There's a difference between being a Pepsodent chump and using your money to support things like trust and service that have intangible value to you.

[itlnstln]

We have some prolific writers in this thread.  I can't remember the last time I read this much.  Carry on.