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geekhack Community => Reviews => Topic started by: Surnia on Wed, 01 May 2013, 11:12:03
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Hey guys, here's my second attempt at a review. As an early caution, this is going to be a huge wall of text. The boards I have in the house that I can use for comparisons are a POM based Keycool 87, ABS Filco Majestouch 2 Ninja, and a Das model S Silent (I believe those are ABS). If you guys want any comparisons to that and I'll take pics/whatever you guys need!
Table of Contents
Updates (#post_Up)
Introduction (#post_Int)
Differences (#post_Diff)
Overview (#post_Ovr)
Functions (#post_Fns)
Keycaps (#post_Key)
Feel and Sound (#post_FnS)
Conclusion (#post_Con)
Updates
May 1 - Initial review posted. No pictures yet!
May 1 - Anchors for ToC applied. Thanks CPTBadAss!
May 1 - Pics!
May 3 - Small edits, and Android OTG adapter arrived!
Introduction
If you guys have been following the market of smaller form keyboards, the current rage is all for the 60% units. However, the 75% layout is still hanging around in two main forms, the Keycool 84 and the more classic Noppoo Choc Mini. The Keycool offered some great features the Noppoo has skimmed over; namely a more standard keycap layout (standard sized space bar), and a more logical home/end cluster. From the top down we get Delete, Home, PgUp, PgDn, End and Insert hidden with Fn+F12. The constant changes to the Noppoo Mini have at least addressed the odd sized modifiers and made the home/end cluster to be a more standard layout (matching those condensed laptop setups). The board reviewed here was purchased from Qtan5370, who you can find at his vendor forum or at his respective stores (vendio (http://www.vendio.com/stores/E-sports-Gaming-equipments) or Ebay (http://stores.ebay.com/E-sports-Gaming-equipments?_rdc=1)). At time of invoicing, the keyboard was $75.99 USD.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4320/35280576374_33ef24a012_z.jpg)[/url]
Differences
There are not many differences between the 2013 version and the 2012 version, however they are notable to being significant to match the primary competitor in this size: the Keycool 84. The modifier row has now been converted into a standard 1.25X on all keys, so replacement keycaps here are going to be much easier to procure. They retained their 5.5X spacebar to obtain this layout however, so the spacebar is still impossible to replace (unless you 3D print your own!). A new Detachable cable has been included with the Choc Mini, which is a great change. The cable routing is very secure on the side passages, holding the cord in very well. The straight outlet however is a bit loose, but this ensures that the cable won’t be damaged. Overall, the cable routing enables 5 possible cable positions: Straight out, rear exit on the left or right, or side exit on the left or right.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4309/36080058486_2ebd6b6473_z.jpg)[/url]
A word of caution with the USB cable: on FIRST insert mine clicked, and grabbed hold of the cable really tightly. I could not remove the cable at all, and had to use pliers to remove the cable. Subsequent inserts after that have been trouble free, however it is something to be aware of.
As noted in some other threads, the case appears to be a new design as well. A battery door for two AAA cells is built in with no leads, and a small power switch hole is just above the USB plug location. Qtan5370 has clarified that the board is NOT directly wireless capable, however the case appears to be shared with a new Noppoo product currently named and referred to as the M2.
Overview
The refresh to the 2013 line saw changes to the modifier layout, and a change to the case. The keys are now a standard 1.25X on all the modifiers, but they had to maintain their 5.5X space bar to fit them all. The keys themselves are made from PBT, approximately 1.5-1.75mm thick. Please note that I'm one of those strange people that likes their space bars backwards, so excuse me if it looks odd.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4325/35952105532_c7cf2cd913_z.jpg)[/url]
The keyboard comes with the USB cable, a ring style Keycap puller, and the keyboard itself wrapped in bubble wrap. There are no additional accessories. The dimensions of the board are 32.0cm x 12.9cm.
Noppoo uses a Costar stabilizer layout, however the parts are predictably thinner and cheaper (they had to cheap out somewhere!). As seen here, the stabilizers are much thinner, and the plastic is much more ductile than those found on the Filco. This coupled with the fact that they require pliers to remove (they hold REALLY well) makes it a frustrating experience to remove them for swapping/greasing. One of two inserts on my space bar was broken, and it nearly resulted in the insert tearing in half and nearly ruining my space bar. My personal recommendation is to pickup a new set of stabilizer inserts if you plan on doing any modding. The Bars themselves look thinner than those I found on the Das and Filco, but they don't appear to cause any issues other than some extra rattling. A nice coat of lube will solve that problem however.
(stabilizer pics)
The Keyboard is also plate mounted on what appears to be a slightly thin uncoated plate (silver colour shows through). Unforutnately I have not taken the case apart to take a reference to this, however the keyboard has the chorus of ping people were concerned about with the Filco keyboards prior to the great GH crash. By quickly tapping a key and letting it spring back, each key WILL ping, aside from the larger stabilized keys. I'm assuming the resonance of a thinner plate is causing the volume of the ping to be amplified slightly. This does not bother me at all, but might be a consideration for others.
The keyboard will arrive utterly ungreased from factory, so a nice tear down for the stabilized keys to apply grease is a great idea. I use aerosol Super Lube sprayed into a bottle cap, and applied with a sharpened barbeque skewer.
Functions
The Noppoo as most people are aware, is NKRO capable over USB. I can confirm this to work on any Windows workstation, however I do not know its capacity to work with any other operating system. I will be picking up an OTG adapter for my Samsung tablet soon (slow Chinese mail…), and I’ll see if the keyboard’s capable of working with android. I have not tested PS/2, however I assume the functionality would be identical. A noted workaround is to use a USB to PS/2 converter, then another active PS/2 to USB converter to bring it back to 6KRO over USB and enabling full compatibility to all other OSes.
*edit* The OTG adapter arrived, and the Noppoo Plugged in perfectly. Absolutely no issues whatsoever, so it looks like the Noppoo is Android compatible, or at least for samsung devices!
A couple of other features they managed to include are quite interesting; an integrated numpad, a winlock, a limited amount of media keys, debounce control, and a switch lock.
The media keys are centered around the WASD cluster, and control volume and basic playback. There's no additional controls to access media players or other things.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4318/36080054796_99347e6f4e_z.jpg)[/url]
Win Lock is simple hold Fn and press the win key and it will lock it out. Switch lock is shared with the Delete key, hold Fn and a light will turn on to indicate that the Caps key and left Ctrl key have been reversed.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4310/35952103712_c5b14e9993_z.jpg)[/url]
The numpad is what I purchased the Noppoo for. As a lot of my work entails copious amounts of numerical data entry, the hidden numpad is great for my uses. Fn + Print Screen activates the numpad, which replaces the right hand alpha cluster with an offset numpad. It does take a small amount of time to get used to the new layout, however it is quite easy to use. I have no problems whatsoever using it, however the offset might be difficult for some people to adapt to. The double zero key has been an interesting one for me to use, as I'm not used to seeing it in standard keyboard layouts. Aquakeytest seems to report that it presses the 0 key twice VERY quickly and registers two presses only. Holding the key down does not continue outputting double 0s.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4315/36121508915_4e9ecaf43e_z.jpg)[/url]
A feature not found in many other keyboards is the ability to adjust the debounce. Debounce is how much the keyboard needs to aggregate signals into a single "press" that is sent to the computer. This is necessary due to the simple fact that we're moving from an analog to digital system. All mechanical keys in any industry face the same problem; the physical nature of a switch means that it will bounce between on and off states VERY quickly near the point of actuation either due to the key bouncing, or minute arcing from the contacts when they're close. Since we're working on keyboards either polling at crazy fast rates over USB or directly interrupting the system with a PS/2 input, all of those will register as key presses. If debounce were not included, we'd see something akin to having 10 letters register on each key press.
Debounce helps this problem by allowing the keyboard to take all inputs from within a set time frame, and register it only as a single press. Inherently a necessary solution, but in some cases the default time intervals might be too short (double presses), or too long (reduced input rate due to clustering too many inputs into one).
Fn and F10/F11 either increase or decrease the debounce on the keyboard, enabling you to adjust for keys that might be double tapping or if you're particularly insane/sensitive, the ability to adjust the debounce down to increase your WPM/APM. your mileage may vary, but for me I'm keeping it at default. I'm unsure if the settings are retained after the keyboard is unplugged.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4297/35952101382_de820bb462_z.jpg)[/url]
Keycaps
The Noppoo uses a nicely textured finish on their keycaps, with a slightly sandy/dry feeling to them. As compared to ABS, I've heard some great comparisons and the best one I could relate to is that ABS has a sort of greasy feel, even when new and compared against PBT/POM. PBT has a sort of grippy feel to the plastic along with the texture, what you can consider and feel as a higher coefficient of friction compared to POM.
POM on the Keycool unit we have in the house also has a great sandy texture to the keys, but your fingers can dance across them far more easily. Unfortunately the Keycool isn't mine so I don't get to play with it as often as I'd like to (it also uses reds, which I don't like) but my preference for materials is on the fence. I prefer POM for a household use; where I can really sit back and enjoy the typing but for work PBT feels like a much better material.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4330/36121506615_3f7e5e540c_z.jpg)[/url]
The lettering on the keys is stated to be lasered. If you look VERY carefully at the keys, you can sometimes see indentations inside the lettering, and that is the only evidence I have that the keys might be lasered. The font colour is a nice subtle gray, and I love how it blends into the keys slightly.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4315/35730307890_d6c1388f74_z.jpg)[/url]
As I mentioned earlier, the caps are of a thicker material. There's debate starting right now around the forums as of May 1st, 2013 if the PBT is considered thick or thin. From all the boards I have in the house, here's what I can see. In the picture below, from left to right we have a Majestouch Ninja ABS keycap, a Das ABS(?) keycap, Techkeys doubleshot ABS, the Noppoo PBT cap, Techkeys PBT cap, a Keycool POM cap, and an ABS Keycool cap from their 22 keypad.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4324/35730298750_91ea73d311_z.jpg)[/url]
In order of decreasing thickness: Noppoo > Keycool ABS/POM > Techkeys PBT > Filco=Das=Techkeys ABS
As you can see there, the Noppoo's material is much thicker than all the other caps I presently own. The measurement is an estimated thickness between 1.5-1.75mm thick. I do not know if this would classify as the current generation of "thick" PBT caps, however in reference to the caps I have access to, it is thick.
The profile appears to be Cherry profile for the keycap height. At the moment I don't have any cherry key references for the other rows other than the Function row, so I am unable to make full comparison.
Feel and Sound
As mentioned in the keycaps section, I described the feel of the PBT caps. It is definitely different to ABS that I’m used to, and it is great. My fingers no longer feel perpetually greasy when typing, and it yields a great effect after a typing session when you’re done and your fingertips feel like they’ve been gently caressed. The caps even feel like they’re pulling just enough excess moisture from your fingers so that they’re not sweaty and gross but as if they’ve just been wiped by the softest fresh cotton towels.
The smaller footprint of the keyboard is great for use in areas with limited space, but I still prefer a full 104 layout for absolute comfort. The layout of the Noppoo mimics those found in HP laptops (although those are mainly ISO and the Noppoo here is ANSI). If you’re coming from one of those, the transition is very simple and quick as the keys are in an identical layout (however spacing is different, HP changes that around and it bothers me a LOT). Overall a very comfortable size to use on a desktop or even as an overlay on a laptop while retaining full access to all function keys, arrow cluster, and home/insert cluster without them being hidden behind a Fn layer.
The sound of the Noppoo is amazing. The thicker PBT caps take out a lot of the higher pitched sounds associated with the MX switches, including bottoming out. It drops the entire sound profile into something more like a subdued clack. The POM keycaps on the Keycool 87 also do an excellent job at this, but I’d say they sound more like a hybrid thump/clack sound.
The Chorus of Springs has returned in the Noppoo, as I mentioned in the Overview. To me it is a lovely sound but it is quiet and sits more in the backround as you type normally. I don’t bottom out with the MX blacks so I can’t comment on how loud it might get if you really do hammer away on lighter switches.
Conclusion
In conclusion, The Choc Mini is a great board. Through successive generations the board has gained and lost features, many of which appear to be a response to the market’s demands. The only major downsides to the board at the moment are the fact that the NKRO over USB tends to break with non-windows OS (fixable with a work around), the board arrives completely un-lubed, and the utterly non-standard spacebar. It offers a great size with full functionality of a 104 board, and offers some interesting functions that some might consider desirable. It comes with a great set of default thick PBT caps with lasered text. If you’re looking for a great compact board with full functionality of a 104 and are mainly a windows user, the Noppoo is your keyboard.
If you guys want any additional pictures, please ask!
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[reserved]
in case the thing goes over with pics...
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Really awesome review. I especially loved the part that me about debounce and the explanation of the modifiers. Don't even apologize for writing a "wall of text" since I think that's how reviews should be.
That being said, you can set up that Table of Contents to allow you to skip around if you wish to do so. Check out my Post Meetup review for an idea of how that might work or feel free to PM me if you have questions about bbcode formatting.
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Nice write up, I could not for the love of god figure out what the Fn + F10/11 combination was good for on mine. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle.
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Really awesome review. I especially loved the part that me about debounce and the explanation of the modifiers. Don't even apologize for writing a "wall of text" since I think that's how reviews should be.
That being said, you can set up that Table of Contents to allow you to skip around if you wish to do so. Check out my Post Meetup review for an idea of how that might work or feel free to PM me if you have questions about bbcode formatting.
Thanks CPTBadAss!
I was trying to work with the anchor tags, but it wasn't working in previews... I'll give it another shot though.
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Ok, feel free to get at me if you need help, don't be shy! :D They can be tricksy. The first time I used em, I probably spent like 2 hours figuring it out.
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Damn that is thick PBT! Please come today board, please.
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Very nice review. Thanks!
Hopefully the version with reds will restock soon.
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Board came today!
:)
Everything is working great so far. The detachable USB is a little hard to get out but not much harder than my Ducky. I don't plan on removing it very often so it's not a big deal.
Definitely some nice thick PBT keycaps.
Loving this board!
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Thank you for this review.
I especially like the flipped caps comparison. Many people just don't do that even though it belongs to essentials.
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Awesome edit man. I find that people really like to be able to refer to writeups later so its nice to be able to skip around. It's definitely convenient when I refer to my old stuff as well.
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Hey Surnia, take off your caps lock and tell me if you see the same thing I see. In that little hole drilled into the backplate, I think I can see what is actually 2 very thin back plates with about a 1mm space between them?
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Hey Surnia, take off your caps lock and tell me if you see the same thing I see. In that little hole drilled into the backplate, I think I can see what is actually 2 very thin back plates with about a 1mm space between them?
Yes I do see that, nice catch! however the gap for me has a resin/plastic/PCB sandwiched inbetween. its of a translucent tan colour...
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@Surnia: OEM or Cherry profile caps? Or in between?
Thanks.
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Hey Surnia, take off your caps lock and tell me if you see the same thing I see. In that little hole drilled into the backplate, I think I can see what is actually 2 very thin back plates with about a 1mm space between them?
Yes I do see that, nice catch! however the gap for me has a resin/plastic/PCB sandwiched inbetween. its of a translucent tan colour...
Interesting. :)
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I've also noticed a couple other things. There are 2 switches mounted sideways for PgUp and PgDn, the Noppoo keycaps fit fine on it but I tried the black on black PBT keycap and the fit was very very tight. So tight it was very scary taking of the keycap again.
The second thing is the keycaps don't fit perfectly snug. There must be a little bit of play because on the 1.25 to 2.00 size keys if you press on the side the keycap "pops" down on that one side and sticks up on the other. You can see in the fifth picture in this review, the caps lock, and possibly the tab are lower on the left sides. Then when you push in the centre of the cap it pops back to flat position.
This is only with the stock Noppoo caps. Other caps I've tried on the board fit normally.
Just a couple minor cons that I noticed.
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@Surnia: OEM or Cherry profile caps? Or in between?
Thanks.
Cherry. Sorry I had a small blurb in there that I took out for rewriting that I forgot to plug back in!
Lunar, that would be the effects of the cheaper stabilizer parts. The replacement with higher quality inserts (as those found on Filcos et. al., and can be purchased at WASD) should alleviate the problem. Its partly due to the sheer size of the hole that give it some play for that kind of press.
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Hey great review! It was thorough, and had meaningful pictures that helped tell your story. And a table of contents. And a real conclusion. Also great work comparing new Noppoo Choc Mini with prior version. I'd like to see you review the new Topre HiPro keyboard.
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Great review, is this the new backlight model such as this one?; "http://www.thenoppoo.com/china/content.asp?id=161".
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Great News! The Noppoo works PERFECTLY with Samsung Android tablets that can take the OTG adapters. Plugged it in and it instantly worked! This means I have a fully mobile workstation in the works...
Great review, is this the new backlight model such as this one?; "http://www.thenoppoo.com/china/content.asp?id=161".
Yes I believe that is the one that Qtan is referring to for the new model.
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Great News! The Noppoo works PERFECTLY with Samsung Android tablets that can take the OTG adapters. Plugged it in and it instantly worked! This means I have a fully mobile workstation in the works...
Sounds like a great idea for a car computer, as the Noppoo Choc has backlight and wireless with the use of batteries. Sucks that it seems that backlight is only available in red, but it is dimmable. Time to give the new White PBT Mini a try!
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Is it still not compatible with Mac's?
I know the Keycool says it has limited compatibility, but I don't even know what that means? My current noppoo choc mini can be considered to have limited compatibility but it doesn't' really work since some keys aren't mapped or causes something else to happen.
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I love this layout. Is there a board with this layout but without the compatibility issues? I spend too much time on Linux to buy a keyboard that only really works on Windows.
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I love this layout. Is there a board with this layout but without the compatibility issues? I spend too much time on Linux to buy a keyboard that only really works on Windows.
I think all of the keyboards with this layout have issues with other operating systems that aren't Windows. I haven't found one that seems to work with Mac so Linux might also be out of the question too.
Came across some info. The Filco Minila seems to work with Ubuntu 12.10.
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Filco Manila doesn't have this layout, it has the weird extra tall Enter key
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The noppoo works just fine on linux.
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Unfortunately, i don't have any linux or mac machines to test on. I might have access to a linux system, but it might be a while before I can go test it out though.
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Filco Manila doesn't have this layout, it has the weird extra tall Enter key
That depends on which layout you get. They also have it with the regular enter key.
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I wanted to elaborate more about the functionality under linux. This has been tested on my laptop running Linux Mint 14.
The keyboard functions well enough under linux, not unexpected since linux has no problems with multiple input devices.
There is however a minor issue, the numlock switching function does not seem to work properly. It has to be turned of when you plug in the board or else you will be stuck with the numpad. It is easily fixed by activating the switch and then unplugging and plugging the keyboard in again. I'm guessing it can easily be fixed with some configuration in linux, but I haven't bothered as it doesn't annoy me enough.
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I don't know if its the thick PBT, weird plate, or both but this board has such a great typing sound on it. There is a real nice "thock" to it, which is nicer than on my Ducky.
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The noppoo works just fine on linux.
Even the first version of this worked fine on linux.
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Even the first version of this worked fine on linux.
There's been quite a few reports where that's not the case, and the hack causes issues with some linux builds. Also some Mobo BIOS don't like the hack either and there's some BIOS compatibility problems.
I don't know if its the thick PBT, weird plate, or both but this board has such a great typing sound on it. There is a real nice "thock" to it, which is nicer than on my Ducky.
its quite the thocky-ping, and its nice. Ended up typing a massive email today without realizing...
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I don't know if the new one needs this to get it to work on OS X, but for me it fixed my old version and now it works with OS X.
https://github.com/thefloweringash/iousbhiddriver-descriptor-override
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I bought a bunch of spare costar stabilizer parts from WASDkeyboards just to have some extras and eventually convert my ducky over to costar style.
Just a few things to note for this board.
The stabilizer bar for the space bar is also a small unusual size that I'm sure would be very hard to replace.
The inserts that go into the keycap itself for the costar style stabilizer are also unique. They are black and VERY hard to get out of the space bar, easier to get out of the other keys. It's odd because the WASD replacement inserts fit into the enter, shift, and backspace keycaps fine. But there is no way in hell they will fit into the space bar. I even tried filing off the little nubs on the insert, still no way.
So basically you can only use the stabilizer parts that came with the board on the space bar. Cherish those mother****ers. The other stabilized keys take WASD parts, so no problems there if you need to replace them.
;)
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I bought a bunch of spare costar stabilizer parts from WASDkeyboards just to have some extras and eventually convert my ducky over to costar style.
Just a few things to note for this board.
The stabilizer bar for the space bar is also a small unusual size that I'm sure would be very hard to replace.
The inserts that go into the keycap itself for the costar style stabilizer are also unique. They are black and VERY hard to get out of the space bar, easier to get out of the other keys. It's odd because the WASD replacement inserts fit into the enter, shift, and backspace keycaps fine. But there is no way in hell they will fit into the space bar. I even tried filing off the little nubs on the insert, still no way.
So basically you can only use the stabilizer parts that came with the board on the space bar. Cherish those mother****ers. The other stabilized keys take WASD parts, so no problems there if you need to replace them.
;)
well poop. Its the spacebar one that broke for me..
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I bought a bunch of spare costar stabilizer parts from WASDkeyboards just to have some extras and eventually convert my ducky over to costar style.
Just a few things to note for this board.
The stabilizer bar for the space bar is also a small unusual size that I'm sure would be very hard to replace.
The inserts that go into the keycap itself for the costar style stabilizer are also unique. They are black and VERY hard to get out of the space bar, easier to get out of the other keys. It's odd because the WASD replacement inserts fit into the enter, shift, and backspace keycaps fine. But there is no way in hell they will fit into the space bar. I even tried filing off the little nubs on the insert, still no way.
So basically you can only use the stabilizer parts that came with the board on the space bar. Cherish those mother****ers. The other stabilized keys take WASD parts, so no problems there if you need to replace them.
;)
well poop. Its the spacebar one that broke for me..
You can still use the stock inserts from your enter, shift or backspace on the spacebar and just use WASD parts on whichever you harvested the part from :)
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hi guys, long time lurker, first time poster here :)
my choc mini just came in from qtan, seems perfect. i read some people complaining about enter not working in BIOS, due to the USB NKRO, or something. well it seems to be working in my BIOS (gigabyte Z77X-UD5H)...
maybe they fixed that in this revision :)
anyhow, i'm really satisfied with it, cheers for this review, it is what got me to pull the trigger on it :)
this is it, with my filco mj2 beige (both are reds)...
(http://i.imgur.com/5sWpy0Z.jpg)
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I want to get the new version with MX brown switches but they are out of stock. Any other websites where I can get this? The layout seems extremely good for sc2 with the close f key row.
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I want to get the new version with MX brown switches but they are out of stock. Any other websites where I can get this? The layout seems extremely good for sc2 with the close f key row.
MX Brown switches are out of stock for Noppoo and Keycool boards according to Qtan, so you won't be able to get them for quite a while...
Since it's primarily for gaming you could consider getting reds ;)
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I want to get the new version with MX brown switches but they are out of stock. Any other websites where I can get this? The layout seems extremely good for sc2 with the close f key row.
MX Brown switches are out of stock for Noppoo and Keycool boards according to Qtan, so you won't be able to get them for quite a while...
Since it's primarily for gaming you could consider getting reds ;)
Already have a red switch QFR rapid, really want to try browns oh well. They'll probably sell out nearly instantly when back in stock too..
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Very nice review, both this board and the Keycool 84 look amazing.
Also I've never seen someone use a backwards space bar, I might give it a try to see how it feels. :blank:
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Where can you get these from? and ensure you get the 2013 version. Also can you confirm that the home, end, pgup, pgdown are not on modifiers. As a programmer I use these a lot :) thanks
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Nice review, board looks good in white. :P
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Thanks for the review. But, wow, those caps are thick... I would imagine that it would give a nice "thock" if you bottom out!
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great review! :D
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Where can you get these from? and ensure you get the 2013 version. Also can you confirm that the home, end, pgup, pgdown are not on modifiers. As a programmer I use these a lot :) thanks
been a while since I poked in here... lol.
yes, all 4 of those are on their own keys. The right most row is as follows, from top to bottom:
Delete, home, pgup, pgdn, end, right arrow.
Very nice review, both this board and the Keycool 84 look amazing.
Also I've never seen someone use a backwards space bar, I might give it a try to see how it feels. :blank:
Agreed, weirdest thing I've ever heard of when I first saw it (cannot remember, but i swear it was a GHer from pre-crash) but after picking up my Das and feeling how relatively sharp that edge is, instantly flipped it. So much more comfortable; the key slopes towards your thumb gently and really just feels right. It does have the slightly odd effect of making the key feel lighter than it actually is (in all cases of reversed spacebars, the key becomes "finger resting" activate-able. Not sure what makes it so, possibly the angle?) though.
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"As mentioned in the keycaps section, I described the feel of the PBT caps. It is definitely different to ABS that I’m used to, and it is great. My fingers no longer feel perpetually greasy when typing, and it yields a great effect after a typing session when you’re done and your fingertips feel like they’ve been gently caressed. The caps even feel like they’re pulling just enough excess moisture from your fingers so that they’re not sweaty and gross but as if they’ve just been wiped by the softest fresh cotton towels. "
This is poetry :p
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Why is the White Noppoo Choc Mini w/ Red Switches $299 on eBay? (http://www.ebay.com/itm/White-Noppoo-Choc-Mini-84-Cherry-MX-RED-PBT-Key-Cap-Gaming-Mechanical-Keyboard-/251172573331?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item3a7b0d5093) :l
Edit, as in, why did the price change (http://i.imgur.com/fUTajkP.png).
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Probably just a typo from the seller, or they are filled with drugs.
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I picked up one of these boards 2 weeks ago as my first mechanical keyboard. I believe I got a 2012 version. I was a little disappointed in the quality of the board. I was expecting better build quality. The keys do not seem to sit on the switches very well, as in I can push on the right side of the the R-Shift and the key stays slanted right. All of the keys exhibit this behavior. Maybe this is normal but I just don't have much experience with mechanical keyboards and I don't have a local store where I can go and check them out. I love typing on it, and I could overlook he wobbly keys and cheap rattling space bar except it does this weird thing where it stops registering a single key press and instead outputs 'ijkl' no matter what key is pressed. Unplugging the USB and plugging it back in fixes the issue, but it happens once a day at least. Seems like it may be a driver issue and not the keyboard, but google turned up nothing for me. Does anyone know for sure what might be causing this? Ultimately I decided to just return this board and go with a similar board by FILCO.
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Probably just a typo from the seller, or they are filled with drugs.
Wouldn't get much for $200 bud :P and I doubt it's a typo, I've messaged him about it and he reckons they're out of stock, despite his eBay saying they have over 20 available.
I have a feeling it's due to the stock levels of the White Choc Mini (84 key) being so low. I suspect intelligent-pro is the only person with stock on them and is using this to his advantage.
Can anybody confirm this?
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holy crap, stellar and thorough review... like real thorough. nice... now if it would only work natively on a mac...
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Thanks for the review, I'd love to have a keyboard with this layout, I love the keys, just the printing on it looks beautiful. I'm saving to build a Phantom/GH60 if I can get my hands on one!
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So I was poking around my local eBay like store and someone is selling his Choc Mini MX Black for around us$60. His forum post was 2011 so I PM-ed him and he said it is still available. I guess I could bargain a cheaper price, it's late here so it is unlikely he will answer at this hour. Now, since this is likely a 2011 or 2010 model, does the quality hold? It's a POM keycap. Photos are in this forum link.
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=1960136&hl=
This guys seemed to be a mechanical lover. He has Choc Mini Red, Brown, Blacks and at one time he had a Unicomp SpaceSaver which he sold - I almost got this keyboard off him but was too late. Anyway, I love the compact size of the Choc Mini and thought this would be useful to put in the work environment. MX Black would be non-tactile and non-clicky, so it will work fine. I am just not very sure of this China-made keyboard. And geekhack doesn't have much review, except this one.
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I ordered the Choc Mini Cherry MX Black from him for around US$55.
This particular review convinced me. I think it has the same 2010 model:
http://www.overclock.net/t/902905/review-noppoo-choc-mini-mechanical-keyboad-cherry-mx-brown-nkro-under-usb
So excited.
Looks like I am in the path of collecting mech keyboards. This is insane.
I hope I will like MX Black but I already doubt it because of no tactility. I intend to use it for gaming (more than typing) so it may work. We'll see. One of my friend bought Steel Series G6V2 and when I went to their website, to my surprise, these are MX Blacks too and their marketing spin put it such that the Blacks are the most sought after and most qualities. I wonder.......... Anyway, I will update here once I get the Choc Mini.
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When i picked up my filco, i had no intention of going linear. I thought exactly that, no tactility would suck and be hard to use. I was looking at blues, but feared they'd be too light (was switching from browns). The store had some mx blacks on the filco camo on demo, and i ended up doing about 20mins per switch, bouncing between the blacks and my original browns. Ended up with my current filco on my desk. Lack of facility is not an issue after some time, and you come to appreciate the smoothness of linears... I don't like clears, nor do i like blues without orings now, due to how smooth a broken in black feels(sister has a red, too light for me).
The only time i bottom out is with passwords, just for peace of mind.
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The thing is, lack of tactility and smoothness are also equivalent to a rubber dome keyboard, don't you think so?
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The thing is, lack of tactility and smoothness are also equivalent to a rubber dome keyboard, don't you think so?
Not quite, almost all rubber domes have some form of tactility unless they're completely worn out. I would not call a rubber dome smooth in any sense, there's just a level of.. mush that you don't get with a leaf spring on plastic. Depending on where you hit the keys too, you might get variable levels of tactility on a dome due to how the dome's being pressed down.
Also having to occasionally use a rubber dome at work, the most aggravating thing is inconsistent key force and non-registering presses. Half the time if I'm copying something from notes to the computer on the domes, I'm stopping and rechecking my words because I can't tell if some strokes registered or not.
MX Black is one of those switches that you need to sit down, and use for a while. You will soon discover that you either love them or hate them, the usual defining factor being if the springs are too hard or just right (and the occasional weird person who loves the MX Grays who thinks they're too light).
One Caveat I have to mention is that I'm in general a rather strange person. I write with and enjoy using fountain pens (no pressure, very smooth writing), and I love using superbly sharp knives for everything (I carry a Spyderco daily for food/food prep, I maintain its edge to be hair shaving sharp. It is supremely satisfying to cut into any steak or chicken effortlessly without tearing the food). I enjoy a certain level of finesse with the things I use that are optimized in their function, using just enough effort to do exactly what I want it to do without excess.
MX Blacks offers this in a keyboard: Light enough to let you type properly, stiff enough to ensure you don't bottom out unless you actively try to.
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Is there a guide to enable Noppoo to work with a Mac? I know of the USB-ps2-USB cable thingy but I'm not so keen with that solution. There are some files to be included and compiled but they seemed very technical. Is there an easier guide?
Edit: Let me answer my own question:
http://thefloweringash.github.io/iousbhiddriver-descriptor-override/
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I gotta say that once I have the 'driver' from github and KeyRemap4MacBook running in the MacBook Air, the Choc Mini works like a dream. Every key pressed is accounted for except Scroll Lock, Num Lock and Pause. If I put it at the end of the Mac Book Air 13", the length of the Choc Mini is the same as the Air, so this keyboard fits really well with the Air.
All the special Mac keys such as brightness up/down, Launchpad, Dashboard, Key backlight, media keys are mapped to Function F1-F12, so it worked like the Air built in keyboard too.
The Air is a 78-key keyboard while the Choc Mini is 84 key. The extra keys that this keyboard gives which is not in the Air is Page Up and Page Down, so that is pretty cool! And when you press Fn-Page Up which is Home and Fn-Pg Down which is End, it worked too! This made the Choc a really good alternative for a Mac keyboard.
Edit with photo:
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5522/9893233683_0f48601764.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93526151@N00/9893233683/)
Choc Mini (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93526151@N00/9893233683/) by Belfong (http://www.flickr.com/people/93526151@N00/), on Flickr
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Gah, I'm still so tempted, even though I have a Poker...
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Hey there folks, i have the "legendary hard-to-get" choc mini-2M since around the first days of june this year and i thought i might finally write a review in the next days.
it's the one that has red backlit, a detachable cable and wireless function. and it even works.
i only would like to know if you guys are interested in a review. let me know.
(http://abload.de/img/fr_101l4juv.jpg)
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Wow. Looks nice. Please review! Are they using POM keypads which is unlikely due to back lit. So I'm interested.
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Id like a review too. Does CTRL+ALT+F1 - F12 work on linux?
I got the older version (got it late 2011/early 2012) and I'm on linux and everything works except CTRL+ALT+FN.
Are there really no place that has these (or keycool 84) preferably black with backlit in stock?
Does anyone know if there even is more coming or should one start looking at other alternatives?
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ok will try to work on that soon, i got a really tight daily schedule and i need to organize something better than my ****ty phone camera. and i don't know all those terms regarding keyboards. so be patient.
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I'm interested on the feel of the key cap. Are they matte material? Do they attract finger grease or prints?
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I really want that backlit version !
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Help! I have a model identical to the one pictured above--I received it yesterday and it seemed to be in working order, until the wired connection cut out. Ironically, wirelesss remains reliable, but later, after getting the wired connection working again (It only required reconnecting) I let my PC go to sleep, and when it woke, the wired connection had stopped working again. Since then, I can't get a wired connection to register at all, on any of three Win 7 PCs. Has anyone ever experienced something like this?
Oh... and just as I was finishing this, the wired connection began working again. And as I was typing the last sentence, it dropped out...again. It doesn't seem to be an issue with the cable, as I've three different ones at this point. Software compatibility issue? I'm honestly not really a tech-head, but I've never seen anything like this before.