Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Tue, 04 February 2020, 16:41:37
LINK TO THE GB THREAD (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=122525.0)
Who knew that when I posted the first Evolv IC four years ago, that project would go on to become such a self-fulfilling prophecy as the board evolved through version after version. I could not be more proud of what I and all those who helped along the way accomplished, so without any futher ado, Evolv's final evolution is here:
(https://i.imgur.com/YDJggAa.jpg)
Evolv is a 75% full isolation gasket keyboard, featuring
a 4-key macro column,
a joystick knob,
a lil right shift,
and of course,
the tendrils.
(https://i.imgur.com/hTj0JB0.png)
Evolv is available in one of six pre-configured colorways, or you can design your own
| (https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/04154332/ig_cw-heritage-600x600.png) | (https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/04154347/ig_cw-relic-600x600.png) | (https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/01210810/ig_cw-heirloom-600x600.jpg) |
| (https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/04154340/ig_cw-memento-600x600.png) | (https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/04154355/ig_cw-remnant-600x600.png) | (https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/04154225/ig_cw-artifact-600x600.png) |
(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/01221716/config_makeyourown-1.png)
If our pre-configured colorways are not quite matching your aesthetic, you can mix and match top cases, bottom cases and tendrils to configure your own colorway; making the Evolv uniquely yours.
*All “Design Your Own” Evolvs ship with a standard Anodized Black Aluminum Knob, for further customization, feel free to add a knob of your choice from the Add-Ons & Extras section below.
Quick Facts
Features
75% layout w/ 4-key macro column
F13 Function Row
Optional Joystick Knob
Interchangeable Accent Pieces (The Tendrils)
Two Piece Case Design
ESD & Reverse Current Protection
Case Specs
Case Dimensions: 337 x 120mm
Front Height: 14mm w/o feet, 15mm w/ feet
Back Height: 37mm
Case Angle: 8°
Fully Built Weight: Up to 6.3lbs (Relic)
Unbuilt Weights
PC Top – Alu Bottom: 1.9lbs
PC Top – S.S. Bottom: 4.5lbs
PC Top – Copper bottom: 5lbs
Alu Top – Alu Bottom: 2.2lbs
Alu Top – S.S. Bottom: 4.8lbs
Alu Top – Copper Bottom: 5.3lbs
General Info.
Pricing: Starting at $372 (All Aluminum)
Lead Time: Approx. Q4 2024
Design
(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/04141743/Evolv_SideProfile.jpg)
Inspired by the intersection between nature and humanity, Evolv pushes generative algorithms to create a strikingly modern design rooted in traditional aesthetics. Subtle details such as the front lip and custom logo reinforce ideas of hand-crafted precision, while larger features like the joystick knob and the accentuated seam between the top and bottom cases push the board in a more contemporary direction.
(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/04140639/header_relic-back.png)
From the back, Evolv is unmistakably unique. The tendrils, which have always defined the board have evolved into accent pieces, seamlessly blending into the curves of the board, doing so without compromising critical functionality. The daughterboard and bottom gaskets are all firmly installed in beautifully machined pieces of billet metal, allowing Evolv to function without the tendrils present.
(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/04142108/Evolv_plate-assembly.jpg)(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/30113837/evolv-ic-layout.png)
Evolv’s PCB ships with multiple layout options, supporting various preferences with a single universal plate.
Full or Split Backspace
Standard or Stepped Caps Lock
Full or Split Left Shift
Ansi or ISO Enter
Mounting System
(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/04145935/ig_gaskets.png)
Taking queues from boards like the J-series and the Kepler, Evolv sandwiches a plate between two near-continuous gaskets, creating a consistent typing experience that highlights the natural characteristics of your chosen switch.
The Bottom
(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/01124913/weight-array.jpg)
Skipping on a separate weight, the entire bottom case of Evolv is machined from a single block of dense metal to create a resonance chamber, which when combined with the gaskets and carbon fiber plate, allows those deep thocky low notes we all love so much to shine through. For those that prefer a lighter board, anodized aluminum bottoms are available in three different colors (Red, Black & Gray).
The Tendrils
(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/04215113/header_tendrils-1.jpg)
Interchangeable accent pieces magnetically mounted to the bottom of the board, the tendrils are Evolv’s new take on personalization. Clear and smoked options available during group buy depending on your chosen colorway. We plan to offer multiple colors and styles post delivery so that your Evolv can become uniquely yours.
The Joystick
(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/04143949/header_knobs.jpg)
No corner badges or logos; instead, Evolv features an evolution to the knob: the rotary joystick. With users able to assign macros to five unique positions plus a rotation, it packs more functionality than one can ask for in a small space.
The PCB & Daughter Board
(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/04145702/ig_pcb-03.jpg)(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/04215224/Evolv_DB.jpg)
Designed by Gondolindrim, Evolv’s PCB is meant to be simple and elegant. RGB LEDs on the bottom of the PCB illuminate the tendrils from the top, further accentuating their design with a subtle glow. The through-line of traditionalism carries to the optional capslock LED, allowing a windowed cap to shine through when the key is active. The PCB is QMK and VIA compatible and connects via a JST cable to the latest version of the universal daughterboard, the C5. Note: Hotswap PCB will still require soldering for the rotary or joystick encoder.
The Plate
(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/04203213/Evolv_Plate.jpg)
Along the way, Evolv dropped it's initial concept of a perfect algorithmically designed plate, because it turns out the community had already found the light in isolation mounting. Complementing the continuous gaskets, the unique properties of carbon fiber allow low frequency vibrations –in the form of bounce– to enhance an overall firm experience, all in pursuit of tactile & auditory perfection. Plate files will be available post GB for the adventurous, however we advise caution and do not recommend using ultra flexible materials such as (PP, POM & Polycarbonate) as it may cause the PCB to bottom out.
The Gallery
More
The colors in shown in renderings are a close representation of what the final product is expected to look like. There are many factors ranging from anodizing chemistry to the device or monitor you are viewing from that may result in slight variation from the renderings to the final product.
(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/01160339/gallery_01.jpg)(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/01160343/gallery_02.jpg)
(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/01160346/gallery_03.jpg)(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/01160354/gallery_04.jpg)
(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/01160357/gallery_05.jpg)(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/01160350/gallery_06.jpg)
(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/01160401/gallery_07.jpg)(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/01160405/gallery_08.jpg)
(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/01160409/gallery_09.jpg)(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/01160413/gallery_10.jpg)
(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/01160417/gallery_11.jpg)(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/01160420/gallery_12.jpg)
(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/01160339/gallery_01.jpg)(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/01160343/gallery_02.jpg)
(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/01160346/gallery_03.jpg)(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/01160354/gallery_04.jpg)
(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/01160357/gallery_05.jpg)(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/01160350/gallery_06.jpg)
(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/01160401/gallery_07.jpg)(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/01160405/gallery_08.jpg)
(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/01160409/gallery_09.jpg)(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/01160413/gallery_10.jpg)
(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/01160417/gallery_11.jpg)(https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/archetypemade.website/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/01160420/gallery_12.jpg)
The Thank You
Evolv has been a three-year journey, one so many people have been involved in and would not have come to completion without. I cannot thank any of the following people enough:
The Archetype team
Abec13
Armani
Bachoo
James AKB
LBaron
Protozoa
Ragan
Stef
Yangsta
& Most of all, the buyers of Evolv CE
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Tue, 04 February 2020, 16:41:58
Hello all and welcome to the prototype writeup,
(https://i.imgur.com/w9Ceni8.jpg)
First off, I would like to apologize for the delay in posting this writeup. When I received the prototype three weeks ago, I quickly assembled the board and started playing around with it, excited to collect all of my thoughts and to share them with you. However, as I began writing about the issues with my prototype, I couldn't help but open Fusion to try to fix them. As one weekend turned into one week, I grew self-conscious about making this post without proposing the very fixes I was working on. One week turned into two as I took my midterms and had to turn my attention away from the Evolv and onto school. This break was a blessing in disguise: upon returning to the board model, I realized the fixes I was making were hacks to get around fundamental design issues of the board, so I ripped off the band-aid and redesigned the entire thing from the ground up. However, before I talk about the redesign, I must share my thoughts about the original prototype with all of you.
(https://i.imgur.com/0IGdvbu.jpg)
Let's start with the big one: the bottom of the board. I love it; I couldn't have been happier with how it came out; nevertheless, there is room for improvement. First is the side angle of the board, as seen in this photo:
(https://i.imgur.com/xEXVykh.jpg)
Despite being the visual focal point of the board, a user of the Evolv cannot easily see the generative design of the bottom as the tendrils 'hide' underneath the top case of the keyboard, almost defeating the purpose of the design.
Aesthetics aside, most of my qualms with the bottom came with the manufacturing process. Not only is metal 3d printing exceedingly expensive (as in, I don't think I reasonably could've made the <$1000 mark if I had gone for this manufacturing solution), but I was also quite disappointed with the quality of the print. The images below demonstrate what I mean:
(https://i.imgur.com/5u6FiIX.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ML9CV91.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8eoyqyG.jpg)
As can be seen in the red circles in the second image, the inside of the printed part shows clear printing defects. Despite the coating (mostly) covering those issues on the outside (look at the bottom of the left slot to see an easily visible defect), a board at this price point should be perfect inside and out. Furthermore, while the manufacturing tolerances I designed around were sufficient for making the parts fit into each other, I was still extremely disappointed by them, with straight lines in CAD being wobbly messes in person. Finally, and I can't quite put my finger on it, but AlSi10Mg sounds odd, seemingly amplifying structure born sound when typing, making the board a pingy mess (more on this when I talk about the integrated plate). Overall, the direction of the bottom was perfect, but it needed some minor revisions to be near the standards I'm looking for in this project.
Next comes the integrated plate, and note, the plate was not generated for this revision of the prototype: it sucked. The big issue with integrated plates, as many of you know, is they are incapable of dissipating the structure born noise caused by pressing a switch. Check out my very scientific diagram below comparing noise propagation through a case with an integrated plate vs. one with a full isolation gasket:
(https://i.imgur.com/c27gSi8.png)
Every time you bottom out a switch, you cause the plate to vibrate at a certain frequency. When you integrate a plate directly into a case, nothing prevents those vibrations from propagating through the rest of the case and turning your keyboard into a resonator. However, when a gasket material is added between the plate and the case, it acts as a vibration dampener, preventing the propagation of structure born noise. With the Evolv, this was a particular issue, as these vibrations cause the 3d printed part to resonate, turning it into a pingy nightmare.
Finally, I personally found the Evolv's outer bezels to be too thin, evoking the look of a Tofu instead of a premium board.
(https://i.imgur.com/jhRxGxq.jpg)
So, what am I doing to fix these issues?
1: The Issue: The generative bottom is not visible enough from the side. The Fix: A complete redesign of the bottom, pushing the tendrils right to the edge of the board.
(https://i.imgur.com/EFmwtPp.png)
2: The Issue: Cost and Quality of 3d printing the bottom. The Fix: Investing into molds for casting the base, lowering per unit production cost by a factor of 5.
3: The Issue: Structureborn noise propagation with an integrated plate. The Fix: A full isolation gasket inspired by boards like the J-01 and Kepler.
(https://i.imgur.com/orl7vP3.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Fm3OhHk.jpg)
4: The Issue: Thin top bezels. The Fix: Thicker top bezels, which as a bonus, accommodate the new mounting solution.
5: The Issue: Lack of plate layout options. The Fix: Separate plate with fixed layout options for ISO and ANSI.
The Evolv has truly evolved, and I want to thank all of you for your patience as I've worked through this redesign. Main OP will be updated with the new board design shortly, and following that, I will open a new IC poll with some questions I have for you, the community.
- Nathan <3
FAQ
Why a blocked 75%?
Taking inspiration from the satisfaction75 and the 7V, the Evolv crams the functionality of a TKL into a significantly more compact space. Furthermore, by separating the F-row, arrows, and column from the alphas, the Evolv not eases your ability to navigate it, but also provides a much needed visual relief to what would otherwise be a block of keys.
You didn't touch on the 1.5u shift
I love blocked arrows; from both an aesthetic and functionality perspective, they make the board better. However, I've always disliked how blocked arrows don't quite line up with the right modifier keys, in turn forcing an awkward gap to exist somewhere. As such, the 1.5u shift and the 13u bottom row are a compromise: aesthetically, the arrows line-up and the .25u bezel is maintained, while functionally, the Evolv can fit the fourth key into what is typically a three key column on blocked 75s.
How about 2u left shift since so many keysets are missing 1.5u shift?
Incorrect stagger is much worse than a wrong legend, in my opinion. Hopefully, making this bold design decision will make other 75% designers follow suit, and at the very least, I know any keyset I release in the future will include the key.
Hotswap?
Unfortunately not possible due to the multiple layout options on the PCB.
RGB?
Underglow: yes.
Top: maybe.
The Plate Design Process
Quick disclaimer since I don't have a better place to put this: The plate is still a work in progress, I had 50+ iterations pre-IC and assume I will have 50+ more throughout IC. On iterations where I think I've made a significant breakthrough, I'll update the plate render to show off my progress.
Why?
Because, why not? We've had a lot of innovation in plate mounting over the past few years, but little innovation in regards to the plate itself. The first time I read the Iron165 IC, my jaw hit the floor. "Here were two people pushing plate design so much further than anyone will ever feel. Why? Because they can." I thought to myself. From then on, I wanted to follow in their footsteps. Building off of the work LBaron did for the Iron165, the Evolv pushes his ideas to the extreme to see just where keyboards can go.
What is Generative Design?
Generative design is an evolutionary approach to part creation. The process allows engineers to input design goals and constraints, along with materials and manufacturing methods. Then using AI and the power of the cloud, the algorithm explores all possible combinations of a solution, returning those that best meet the design constraints of the problem.
Wow that was a lot of buzzwords, how do you apply it to keyboards?
The first thing we need to do as designers is to shift our mindset to comply with principles required by generative design. The process generates brackets; therefore, we need to think of the plate not as a general mounting surface, but as a way to connect each switch to the keyboard, boiling it down to the critical essentials: mounting constraints and the 1mm surrounding a switch cut-out.
(https://imgur.com/nuqi2jc.png)
As you can see, the large green area represents everything constrained by the case, with the floating cut-outs representing where the switches click into.
Next, you need to tell the generative algorithm not to mess with areas you don't want it to mess with — namely, the inside of the switch cut-outs and mounting points for stabs.
(https://imgur.com/yx2IsuX.png)
As mentioned, setting the constraint was a relatively simple task. Since the Evolv's plate is integrated, I simply need to make the outer frame a static element. For top-mount and gasket boards, mounting tabs would be the constrained element.
Configuring loading conditions is a simple yet tedious task. For the Evolv, there are 167 loading cases: 83 (one per switch) at the "correct" force per switch, 83 (one per switch) at 40N to ensure assembly won't destroy the plate, and 1 with all switches depressed at the same time at 2N.
*Correct force per switch: Mods are pressed harder than alphas. Alphas in the center are pressed harder than alphas around the perimeter of the board.
Now comes the annoying bit, and the part that, if possible, I would like to rework. Despite the 100s of emails I exchanged with professors, companies, and researches, there is no way as of right now to generate plates with the design objective of optimizing plane elasticity. I spent a long time trying to write the code myself, but doing so would've been a Ph.D. dissertation. Instead, you need to settle for the next best compromise: minimizing the weight of the plate with a deformation constraint at each switch.
Once loads and constraints are configured, it's a simple matter of creating manufacturing constraints and choosing how many materials to test. Of the 20+ materials I checked for the plate, 7075 consistently returned the best results for both typing consistency and strength.
The verification process
Verification of plate flex was done using no-penetration static simulations. Mock nylon switches were placed into the switch cut-outs and loaded individually to measure the total displacement during each loading condition. The theory behind this is the same as in the Iron165 IC, so I'll summarize the results below.
The current plate of the Evolv has issues with keys on the edge of the alpha cluster (Q, A, Z, }], "', ?/ ). I prefer to be transparent about this as I have no reason to hide that my generation process isn't perfect yet. Again, the Evolv's plate is constantly evolving :p, and you'll see it change throughout the IC. Anyway, those six switches are HUGE outliers in terms of displacement compared to the rest of the alpha cluster. However, if those six switches are removed from calculations, the Evolv averages .15mm of displacement per key switch with a .001mm standard deviation.
For your visual amusement, here are three selected keypresses:
(https://imgur.com/7miZOnD.png)
(https://imgur.com/ByI1IbX.png)
(https://imgur.com/lMGsi75.png)
A request from me to you
A part of the reason why I decided to call the plate good enough and post the IC for Evolv was that I started hitting a wall with where to progress from here. Please read through this write-up carefully and see if there are any holes in it or any details I forgot to cover. For the missed details, I will write in a blurb. For the holes, I'll modify my workflow and re-generate the plate.
Post by: fropsie on Tue, 04 February 2020, 16:42:50
My hype for this is beyond anything else
Post by: Kokaloo on Tue, 04 February 2020, 16:44:16
Post by: Airea on Tue, 04 February 2020, 16:44:46
Post by: steezkeez on Tue, 04 February 2020, 16:45:53
Post by: Langelandia on Tue, 04 February 2020, 16:46:19
Post by: would? on Tue, 04 February 2020, 16:46:50
Post by: Warrenified on Tue, 04 February 2020, 16:47:17
Post by: Rejeckted on Tue, 04 February 2020, 16:47:44
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Tue, 04 February 2020, 16:50:01
Looks awesome! That bottom is wild, haha. I imagine that would be difficult to machine?
How do you intend to produce that bottom piece?
The bottom is 3d printed out of AlSi10Mg
Post by: Agilr on Tue, 04 February 2020, 16:50:51
Saw the teasers, staying for the GB :thumb:
Post by: Rilow on Tue, 04 February 2020, 16:50:59
Post by: SantiGo on Tue, 04 February 2020, 16:52:12
Post by: lbaron on Tue, 04 February 2020, 16:52:48
Looks awesome! That bottom is wild, haha. I imagine that would be difficult to machine?
It’ll be produced through additive manufacturing (3d metal sintering). So like 3d printing but with metal. Generative design allows for things traditional subtractive design never could do.
Post by: Fnzzy on Tue, 04 February 2020, 16:53:14
Post by: mrboli on Tue, 04 February 2020, 17:02:37
Is there expected flex in the plate due to it's structure?
How will it affect sound if the bottom is open and a (can I say) lattice structure?
Are there multiple rotary dial options?
Post by: The_Koi on Tue, 04 February 2020, 17:02:54
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Tue, 04 February 2020, 17:06:47
Wow, very innovative from what I've seen thus far.
Is there expected flex in the plate due to it's structure?
Yup, that's the point! Every switch complies ~10N/mm. More details in the write-up tomorrow
How will it affect sound if the bottom is open and a (can I say) lattice structure?
There's a thin layer of foam that acts to both normalize flex and help the sound. I'm having test plates machined for a few boards I have and will post a sound comparison as soon as that's done
Are there multiple rotary dial options?
For now, there is only one
Post by: ab042896 on Tue, 04 February 2020, 17:07:01
Post by: Helpingly on Tue, 04 February 2020, 17:07:16
Post by: Kokaloo on Tue, 04 February 2020, 17:08:53
Has there been any tests done with it?
Post by: Zeelobby on Tue, 04 February 2020, 17:08:58
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Tue, 04 February 2020, 17:14:02
I would be really worried about the plate bending just from normal use since it seems to be so thin.
Has there been any tests done with it?
I'll talk about this more in the plate write-up, however static stress analysis of the plate hasn't given me any reason to worry about plate life. The plate is also the normal 1.5mm, so no thinner than any other keyboard.
I've done some basic testing with laser cut materials that have shown to be promising, alu protos will follow shortly.
Post by: twistitup on Tue, 04 February 2020, 17:14:51
Keeping an eye out for this!
Post by: SwitchKeys on Tue, 04 February 2020, 17:16:06
Post by: Ahrimofnor on Tue, 04 February 2020, 17:20:00
I dont wanna think about how much dust will get caught on top of that space frame looking thing down below.
Regarding the knob on top of the board, are you getting the additional functionality from in-plane translation of the knob or rotation of the knob about the depth axis of the keyboard? It would be so slick if I could push it horizontally/vertically without it rotating out of plane.
Post by: frostfiree on Tue, 04 February 2020, 17:20:47
Post by: travwal on Tue, 04 February 2020, 17:28:20
Post by: DJ Shoko on Tue, 04 February 2020, 17:33:27
Post by: ilikerustoo on Tue, 04 February 2020, 17:36:26
Post by: Gajible on Tue, 04 February 2020, 17:38:12
Post by: TheSonu on Tue, 04 February 2020, 17:43:54
Post by: djmantis on Tue, 04 February 2020, 17:45:26
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Tue, 04 February 2020, 17:50:01
This looks really interesting! Is the bottom "3D Printed AlSi10Mg" material?
Correct, yes
Post by: MajorKoos on Tue, 04 February 2020, 17:58:35
Dude, you're on a roll.
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Tue, 04 February 2020, 18:06:16
This thing is nuts. Insane Hype.
I dont wanna think about how much dust will get caught on top of that space frame looking thing down below.
Regarding the knob on top of the board, are you getting the additional functionality from in-plane translation of the knob or rotation of the knob about the depth axis of the keyboard? It would be so slick if I could push it horizontally/vertically without it rotating out of plane.
Unfortunately not:
https://imgur.com/BGeH9Wu
Post by: Ahrimofnor on Tue, 04 February 2020, 18:12:32
This thing is nuts. Insane Hype.
I dont wanna think about how much dust will get caught on top of that space frame looking thing down below.
Regarding the knob on top of the board, are you getting the additional functionality from in-plane translation of the knob or rotation of the knob about the depth axis of the keyboard? It would be so slick if I could push it horizontally/vertically without it rotating out of plane.
Unfortunately not:
https://imgur.com/BGeH9Wu
Hmmmm okay.
Thanks for the animation!
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Tue, 04 February 2020, 18:13:54
This thing is nuts. Insane Hype.
I dont wanna think about how much dust will get caught on top of that space frame looking thing down below.
Regarding the knob on top of the board, are you getting the additional functionality from in-plane translation of the knob or rotation of the knob about the depth axis of the keyboard? It would be so slick if I could push it horizontally/vertically without it rotating out of plane.
Unfortunately not:
https://imgur.com/BGeH9Wu
Hmmmm okay.
Thanks for the animation!
No problem! Sorry for the poor quality, threw it together really quickly. If I can find a rotary joystick that has lateral functionality, I will switch to it with no hesitation.
Post by: YellowHalo on Tue, 04 February 2020, 18:20:02
Post by: Abec13 on Tue, 04 February 2020, 18:24:18
This looks beautiful. I'm not a fan of the 1.5u right shift, though. Maybe you can consider shifting the bottom row to the left so you can use 2u left shift?
Easy solve: buy 1.5u novelties for whatever set.
Just when I was looking for a board for either Camping R2 or Shoko R2, I see this, perfect.
Speaking of.. WHEN IS THAT R2
Post by: rondg on Tue, 04 February 2020, 18:24:50
This looks beautiful. I'm not a fan of the 1.5u right shift, though. Maybe you can consider shifting the bottom row to the left so you can use 2u left shift?
I did not notice this at first! Though admittedly, I am not mad at the idea..
Post by: rkarp on Tue, 04 February 2020, 18:43:34
Post by: antx1701 on Tue, 04 February 2020, 18:55:15
Post by: Ahrimofnor on Tue, 04 February 2020, 19:00:13
This thing is nuts. Insane Hype.
I dont wanna think about how much dust will get caught on top of that space frame looking thing down below.
Regarding the knob on top of the board, are you getting the additional functionality from in-plane translation of the knob or rotation of the knob about the depth axis of the keyboard? It would be so slick if I could push it horizontally/vertically without it rotating out of plane.
Unfortunately not:
https://imgur.com/BGeH9Wu
Hmmmm okay.
Thanks for the animation!
No problem! Sorry for the poor quality, threw it together really quickly. If I can find a rotary joystick that has lateral functionality, I will switch to it with no hesitation.
Do you have a feel for the know diam/ height as pictured & max allowable diam/height?
Post by: rennzz on Tue, 04 February 2020, 19:01:21
Post by: Zeelobby on Tue, 04 February 2020, 19:05:04
Seeing as this will seemingly be fairly expensive, I can only say that this looks incredible and I wish I could afford one. :) Good luck.Haha. Right? I'll follow along for the experience, but there's no way I'll be able to afford this.
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Tue, 04 February 2020, 19:05:58
This thing is nuts. Insane Hype.
I dont wanna think about how much dust will get caught on top of that space frame looking thing down below.
Regarding the knob on top of the board, are you getting the additional functionality from in-plane translation of the knob or rotation of the knob about the depth axis of the keyboard? It would be so slick if I could push it horizontally/vertically without it rotating out of plane.
Unfortunately not:
https://imgur.com/BGeH9Wu
Hmmmm okay.
Thanks for the animation!
No problem! Sorry for the poor quality, threw it together really quickly. If I can find a rotary joystick that has lateral functionality, I will switch to it with no hesitation.
Do you have a feel for the know diam/ height as pictured & max allowable diam/height?
DM Me
Post by: 002 DC on Tue, 04 February 2020, 19:23:08
Post by: Zeelobby on Tue, 04 February 2020, 19:23:55
giving godspeed 75 a run for it's moneyMore likely on Sat75 levels.
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Tue, 04 February 2020, 19:34:07
giving godspeed 75 a run for it's moneyMore likely on Sat75 levels.
<3. This will definitely be more expensive than the sat75 however.
Post by: fropsie on Tue, 04 February 2020, 20:04:09
giving godspeed 75 a run for it's money
Can't compare the two mate. Evolv is miles ahead of godspeed75.
Post by: biothermal on Tue, 04 February 2020, 20:04:44
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Tue, 04 February 2020, 20:11:53
giving godspeed 75 a run for it's money
Can't compare the two mate. Evolv is miles ahead of godspeed75.
Payment is in venmo, thanks Frop :p
Post by: catamscott on Tue, 04 February 2020, 20:18:17
Post by: Zeelobby on Tue, 04 February 2020, 20:20:22
Oh no doubt. I just meant in aftermarket popularity. Haha. I could see this being a Grail board. Great work man.giving godspeed 75 a run for it's moneyMore likely on Sat75 levels.
<3. This will definitely be more expensive than the sat75 however.
Post by: mrkantz on Tue, 04 February 2020, 21:04:52
Post by: dantambok on Tue, 04 February 2020, 21:13:11
Post by: Zeelobby on Tue, 04 February 2020, 21:16:04
wait hold up what the F***. Never thought i'd see something like this on a keyboard :eek:Eh. Once they had 3d printed dresses it was only a matter of time til it showed up everywhere. Haha.
Post by: mrpetrov on Tue, 04 February 2020, 21:20:25
Post by: sleek on Tue, 04 February 2020, 21:27:51
Post by: mr.squishy on Tue, 04 February 2020, 21:35:59
My wallet can't take the beating this would surely provide but it's super cool so I am following anyway :thumb:
Post by: Van-Storm on Tue, 04 February 2020, 21:37:30
Post by: clickstops on Tue, 04 February 2020, 22:32:48
Post by: tex_live_utility on Tue, 04 February 2020, 22:43:30
Post by: macclack on Tue, 04 February 2020, 22:49:03
Post by: Ahrimofnor on Tue, 04 February 2020, 22:53:58
DM Me
Sent
Post by: jimboytacos on Tue, 04 February 2020, 23:04:07
Post by: lush_bunny on Tue, 04 February 2020, 23:18:57
Post by: Eigencat on Tue, 04 February 2020, 23:48:33
Post by: sugoisan on Wed, 05 February 2020, 00:11:54
If only one layout is supported, why not make it hot-swappable?
Post by: ehagerty on Wed, 05 February 2020, 00:28:48
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Wed, 05 February 2020, 00:40:10
Post by: d00deitsnik on Wed, 05 February 2020, 00:43:47
Would it be possible to see a render of this with GMK Ursa? I feel like that would look pretty great with that bottom color. Very earthy.
Post by: jmsp0511 on Wed, 05 February 2020, 01:18:45
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Wed, 05 February 2020, 01:33:16
This looks like it'll be way out of my price range, but I'm really interested in how you did all the computations. Did you go all the way and take into account a spring inside a plastic box with a PCB stuck to the bottom of it?
I'll cover this in more detail in the write-up coming out soon. The answer is yes and no.
Whoa. This is an interesting concept and design. I'm definitely interested in this.
Would it be possible to see a render of this with GMK Ursa? I feel like that would look pretty great with that bottom color. Very earthy.
Will get Ursa renders out today!
Post by: Iksion on Wed, 05 February 2020, 01:36:14
Post by: MatthewPham on Wed, 05 February 2020, 01:54:03
Post by: Butterbeer on Wed, 05 February 2020, 01:58:04
nice choice of color.
Going to be interesting to see how many units will be produced.
Post by: GPrix on Wed, 05 February 2020, 03:12:27
Post by: keuhdall on Wed, 05 February 2020, 04:01:59
Really amazing keyboard, definitely looking forward getting one!
I'm just wondering how hard it might be to clean the dust that gets stuck in that bottom piece
Post by: Joey Quinn on Wed, 05 February 2020, 04:02:31
Post by: VXQN on Wed, 05 February 2020, 04:34:24
Post by: Glychd on Wed, 05 February 2020, 05:10:17
Post by: BouncyChillups on Wed, 05 February 2020, 05:11:33
Post by: Nonnegaard on Wed, 05 February 2020, 05:53:23
Post by: vewy_nice on Wed, 05 February 2020, 06:23:15
I'm afraid if I try and express my excitement, I might summon some eldritch horror by mistake.
Best to just keep my mouth shut and wait for the GB.
Also, I'm really glad I recently paid off all my credit card debt... Future-er me can worry about paying for this.
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Wed, 05 February 2020, 06:29:50
I do not have an estimate as of right now for how much this board will cost. I will do my best to keep the price under $1000, but I can't promise anything do to the complexity of the 3d printed piece.
Post by: Zeelobby on Wed, 05 February 2020, 06:29:56
I know it's hard to say by now, but what is the estimated price on this one? You've said "more expensive than the Satisfaction75" but i don't even know what that retailed for, lmao.Greater than $450. I'd assume this will at least be a $700 board. If not more.
Edit: NM. Yeah. My high end guess was a grand. But I expected him to try to get it under.
Post by: vewy_nice on Wed, 05 February 2020, 06:31:59
Regarding pricing, since many people are commenting about it.That was your 69th post.
I do not have an estimate as of right now for how much this board will cost. I will do my best to keep the price under $1000, but I can't promise anything do to the complexity of the 3d printed piece.
$690 looks like a good best-case target to strive for.
Will this be limited? I'd hope for a non-limited GB, let the higher volume drive price down, even if only slightly.
Also: If the 3D sintered metal doesn't end up working out, maybe we could opt for something non-metallic? I'd be down with that.
Post by: Zeelobby on Wed, 05 February 2020, 06:37:52
Lol. Pretty sure he meant closer to $990.Regarding pricing, since many people are commenting about it.That was your 69th post.
I do not have an estimate as of right now for how much this board will cost. I will do my best to keep the price under $1000, but I can't promise anything do to the complexity of the 3d printed piece.
$690 looks like a good best-case target to strive for.
Will this be limited? I'd hope for a non-limited GB, let the higher volume drive price down, even if only slightly.
Also: If the 3D sintered metal doesn't end up working out, maybe we could opt for something non-metallic? I'd be down with that.
But an alternative base option would be cool. The plate tech is interesting. Would be cool to see it in a more affordable package. Understand that removed the one large generative design aesthetic, but still.
And I doubt this will be unlimited. If unlimited GBs were easy, everyone would do them for lower prices and more profit. The problem with GBs of custom designs is that the designer really has to take over the QC aspect. And inspecting 200+ boards is nightmare enough. Not to mention the additional risk involved with higher volume.
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Wed, 05 February 2020, 06:43:27
That was your 69th post.
$690 looks like a good best-case target to strive for.
$690, you heard it here first :p
But seriously, I can't estimate how much it will cost at this time.
Will this be limited? I'd hope for a non-limited GB, let the higher volume drive price down, even if only slightly.
This is my first board, and while unlimited GB sounds fantastic in regards to pricing, I would rather keep the production run small that I can feasibly QC each individual board.
Also: If the 3D sintered metal doesn't end up working out, maybe we could opt for something non-metallic? I'd be down with that.
Yes.
Post by: Zeelobby on Wed, 05 February 2020, 06:47:38
Post by: vewy_nice on Wed, 05 February 2020, 06:51:31
This is my first board, and while unlimited GB sounds fantastic in regards to pricing, I would rather keep the production run small that I can feasibly QC each individual board.
Do you accept binding pre-order contracts at this time? lol
/s but maybe not?
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Wed, 05 February 2020, 06:52:17
As an alternative to the generative baseplate, having a generative design elsewhere in the board (side profile/back accent, weight emblem, etc.) would also be cool. That said I think if you **** for the moon you'd still probably fill your slots, I'd just be jealous.
<3. The Evolv will remain as is aesthetics wise, though I will explore creating more affordable versions of the design in the future.
Post by: huey on Wed, 05 February 2020, 07:04:09
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Wed, 05 February 2020, 07:05:25
I'd be surprised if that plate doesn't snap on someone and they can't replace it because integrated.
It's gonna be in the write-up. The plate is stress-tested with loads up to 40N.
Post by: Hydroxide on Wed, 05 February 2020, 07:28:48
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Post by: ElvnFong on Wed, 05 February 2020, 07:33:36
Post by: Lasta on Wed, 05 February 2020, 07:45:59
(https://imgur.com/mdC2hQU.png)
Post by: Magas on Wed, 05 February 2020, 08:12:28
Post by: mbsurfer on Wed, 05 February 2020, 08:41:07
Colors: What you see is what you get, as this is my first keyboard I'd prefer to have one option for simplicity's sake
Based on the renders, it looks like all the cases and bottom pieces are the same colors, but the rotary joysticks seem to have different color options. Will the rotary joysticks have different options for colors, and if so could we purchase multiple to have options for keysets?
Post by: nthoftype on Wed, 05 February 2020, 08:51:23
Post by: Krelbit on Wed, 05 February 2020, 09:59:57
Excited to see people buy into this and then realize none of their keysets work on it
this is all a scheme to make people buy $50 40s kits they don't need for 1 key
don't buy into the 40% propaganda
enlist in the non 40 army today
Post by: jrfhoutx on Wed, 05 February 2020, 10:09:23
Excited to see people buy into this and then realize none of their keysets work on it
this is all a scheme to make people buy $50 40s kits they don't need for 1 key
don't buy into the 40% propaganda
enlist in the non 40 army today
this is the real conspiracy
Post by: lush_bunny on Wed, 05 February 2020, 10:21:04
Excited to see people buy into this and then realize none of their keysets work on it
I’ve looked at this board multiple times is there something I’m not seeing?? :eek:
Post by: hottrout on Wed, 05 February 2020, 10:21:40
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Wed, 05 February 2020, 11:05:15
What's the name of the keycap set on this?Show Image(https://imgur.com/mdC2hQU.png)
This set doesn't exist, I threw it together quickly solely for rendering purposes.
Colors: What you see is what you get, as this is my first keyboard I'd prefer to have one option for simplicity's sake
Based on the renders, it looks like all the cases and bottom pieces are the same colors, but the rotary joysticks seem to have different color options. Will the rotary joysticks have different options for colors, and if so could we purchase multiple to have options for keysets?
If I can make it work, that's the plan.
Excited to see people buy into this and then realize none of their keysets work on it
this is all a scheme to make people buy $50 40s kits they don't need for 1 key
don't buy into the 40% propaganda
enlist in the non 40 army today
Yes.
Certainly a new design and I like the bottom of the KB. Please consider ISO in your PCB and Plate.
I did consider it, do the nature of the plate it isn't possible at the moment. If I can figure out a way to add ISO support without compromising the integrity of the plate, I will.
Post by: The_Royal on Wed, 05 February 2020, 11:05:45
That being said, I'm very interested in the plate strength overall.
Example #1:
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642426539824119849/674661848091721728/image0.png)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/642426539824119849/674661665337507840/image0.jpg)
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Wed, 05 February 2020, 11:19:54
The uniqueness of this is incredible.
That being said, I'm very interested in the plate strength overall.
Example #1:Show Image(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642426539824119849/674661848091721728/image0.png)Show Image(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/642426539824119849/674661665337507840/image0.jpg)
Metal designed to comply with stress =/= Plastic designed to break. Though I enjoy the comparison lol
Post by: vewy_nice on Wed, 05 February 2020, 11:50:53
As someone who has:
The stuff is hella strong and durable compared to regular 6061, and not even really comparable to some of the softer cast alloys.
Post by: chits on Wed, 05 February 2020, 11:56:34
Post by: Zeelobby on Wed, 05 February 2020, 12:00:35
Forgive the ignorance but I'm new to the term 'generative design'. However, in ML, we reference generative/evolutionary algorithms. Was the base designed using an algorithm? Looks wild.
Yeah, you usually put in some required parameters, and then let it randomly generate the structure. In this case I'm assuming there's a specific area, specific density, maybe even material strength equation, some branching limitation, etc. Then you just let it go to town.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generative_design
Post by: lush_bunny on Wed, 05 February 2020, 12:11:10
Excited to see people buy into this and then realize none of their keysets work on it
I’ve looked at this board multiple times is there something I’m not seeing?? :eek:
Nvm I reread the OP and saw the 1.5u R Shift.
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Wed, 05 February 2020, 12:52:08
Also, I'm not sure if many people have experience with 7075 in structural applications such as this (aka: Not just a big ol' block)
As someone who has:
The stuff is hella strong and durable compared to regular 6061, and not even really comparable to some of the softer cast alloys.
Thank you for the great and concise explaination :thumb:
Forgive the ignorance but I'm new to the term 'generative design'. However, in ML, we reference generative/evolutionary algorithms. Was the base designed using an algorithm? Looks wild.
Yeah, you usually put in some required parameters, and then let it randomly generate the structure. In this case I'm assuming there's a specific area, specific density, maybe even material strength equation, some branching limitation, etc. Then you just let it go to town.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generative_design
Write-up coming soon!
Post by: Delo on Wed, 05 February 2020, 13:57:02
Post by: Gert Fischer on Wed, 05 February 2020, 14:04:18
Post by: uhohitsdanny on Wed, 05 February 2020, 14:10:04
Post by: botchm on Wed, 05 February 2020, 14:34:31
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Mechanyx on Wed, 05 February 2020, 16:41:32
Post by: ttom on Wed, 05 February 2020, 16:43:43
Post by: hieple on Wed, 05 February 2020, 17:21:22
Post by: Zeelobby on Wed, 05 February 2020, 17:27:54
This is gonna be my first group buy board purchase.Haha. It's def a way to start with a bang. I went way cheaper with mine. Lol.
Post by: Rew23 on Wed, 05 February 2020, 17:35:09
Post by: Boshi on Wed, 05 February 2020, 18:00:25
Post by: Crack85 on Wed, 05 February 2020, 20:03:16
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Post by: Inquisitive on Wed, 05 February 2020, 20:39:30
Post by: YellowHalo on Wed, 05 February 2020, 22:57:19
Excited to see people buy into this and then realize none of their keysets work on it
I’ve looked at this board multiple times is there something I’m not seeing?? :eek:
The layout uses 1.5u key for shift. There are hardly any sets that have 1.5u shift key. You either have to use other 1.5u r4 keys like control, alt or manu, or 1.5u novelties. I personally am not a fan of using keys in place of spots that are not intended for them. Novelties are fine, some sets comes with 1.5u novelties in their base kit like gmk olive, and some sets don't offer novelties, not even as kits.
I suggested tweaking the layout to use 2u left shift. More sets are starting to include 2u shift in base kits, like GMK Mizu, GMK Fuyu GMK Darling and GMK Future Funk to name a few. The layout will change the stagger and you may need to get used to the layout, though it may be for everyone, but at least it can help to solve the compatibility issue. It would be nice too if the pcb could accept both layouts so you can choose to go with 2u left shift or 1.5u right shift, but I imagine that would add more work to the pcb designer and complicate the plate design, increasing the overall cost.
Post by: rondg on Wed, 05 February 2020, 23:23:31
I suggested tweaking the layout to use 2u left shift. More sets are starting to include 2u shift in base kits, like GMK Mizu, GMK Fuyu GMK Darling and GMK Future Funk to name a few. The layout will change the stagger and you may need to get used to the layout, though it may be for everyone, but at least it can help to solve the compatibility issue. It would be nice too if the pcb could accept both layouts so you can choose to go with 2u left shift or 1.5u right shift, but I imagine that would add more work to the pcb designer and complicate the plate design, increasing the overall cost.
I agree. I'm not sure though if there will be a big adjustment on my part, having a 2u left shift key. I am already planning on having a PCB made with that specific layout just to try it out and maybe have a keyboard made based on that layout. The spacing looks so good that I want to try it so bad.
Post by: frostfiree on Thu, 06 February 2020, 00:12:49
Excited to see people buy into this and then realize none of their keysets work on it
I’ve looked at this board multiple times is there something I’m not seeing?? :eek:
The layout uses 1.5u key for shift. There are hardly any sets that have 1.5u shift key. You either have to use other 1.5u r4 keys like control, alt or manu, or 1.5u novelties. I personally am not a fan of using keys in place of spots that are not intended for them. Novelties are fine, some sets comes with 1.5u novelties in their base kit like gmk olive, and some sets don't offer novelties, not even as kits.
I suggested tweaking the layout to use 2u left shift. More sets are starting to include 2u shift in base kits, like GMK Mizu, GMK Fuyu GMK Darling and GMK Future Funk to name a few. The layout will change the stagger and you may need to get used to the layout, though it may be for everyone, but at least it can help to solve the compatibility issue. It would be nice too if the pcb could accept both layouts so you can choose to go with 2u left shift or 1.5u right shift, but I imagine that would add more work to the pcb designer and complicate the plate design, increasing the overall cost.
The issue with doing that is that the plate is integrated and layout is fixed. If he were to allow you to use a smaller left shift, all the alphas would need to stagger and I'm not sure how that work considering the design/cut of that integrated plate.
Post by: lakeboredom on Thu, 06 February 2020, 00:13:28
Post by: nickaster1 on Thu, 06 February 2020, 00:35:48
Post by: Datastream on Thu, 06 February 2020, 05:46:20
Post by: vewy_nice on Thu, 06 February 2020, 06:16:37
Post by: ninjacore on Thu, 06 February 2020, 08:20:36
Post by: YellowHalo on Thu, 06 February 2020, 08:30:55
Yeah you're right, now that you mentioned it, the integrated plate is quite unique. I didn't notice that the plate was designed with flex cuts. It can have wider holes, but due to the design of the plate, that would compromise the rigidity of the plate. The plate actually reminded me of the carbon fiber 60% plate on kbdfans.Excited to see people buy into this and then realize none of their keysets work on it
I’ve looked at this board multiple times is there something I’m not seeing?? :eek:
The layout uses 1.5u key for shift. There are hardly any sets that have 1.5u shift key. You either have to use other 1.5u r4 keys like control, alt or manu, or 1.5u novelties. I personally am not a fan of using keys in place of spots that are not intended for them. Novelties are fine, some sets comes with 1.5u novelties in their base kit like gmk olive, and some sets don't offer novelties, not even as kits.
I suggested tweaking the layout to use 2u left shift. More sets are starting to include 2u shift in base kits, like GMK Mizu, GMK Fuyu GMK Darling and GMK Future Funk to name a few. The layout will change the stagger and you may need to get used to the layout, though it may be for everyone, but at least it can help to solve the compatibility issue. It would be nice too if the pcb could accept both layouts so you can choose to go with 2u left shift or 1.5u right shift, but I imagine that would add more work to the pcb designer and complicate the plate design, increasing the overall cost.
The issue with doing that is that the plate is integrated and layout is fixed. If he were to allow you to use a smaller left shift, all the alphas would need to stagger and I'm not sure how that work considering the design/cut of that integrated plate.
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Thu, 06 February 2020, 09:03:42
Just wanted to bump the thread to let you know the technical write-up is live :thumb:
If you see any issues PLEASE call me out for them! That's how I get better and how we progress as a community!
Much love
- Nathan
Post by: Twigler on Thu, 06 February 2020, 10:21:21
Post by: ibabo on Thu, 06 February 2020, 12:14:39
Post by: Ahrimofnor on Thu, 06 February 2020, 12:41:29
2. Is the plate uniform thickness? Can the generative algorithm take your 2d planar constraint around each switch and optimize its depth to add (or remove) stiffness? If you do the metal sintering process for the plate I would imagine it would still be manufacturable.
I'll think on it a bit more but figured I'd get a conversation started earlier than later.
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Thu, 06 February 2020, 12:48:27
1. Can you define the order in which the plate is "solved" by the generative algorithm? For example, optimize alphanumeric to design spec then modifiers then arrow keys. Wont fix your problem but might move it to someplace no one really cares about.
That's the correct order, alphas -> space -> mods -> numrow -> f-row -> column -> arrows.
Whether this order truly affects generation, I don't know.
2. Is the plate uniform thickness? Can the generative algorithm take your 2d planar constraint around each switch and optimize its depth to add (or remove) stiffness? If you do the metal sintering process for the plate I would imagine it would still be manufacturable.
I'll think on it a bit more but figured I'd get a conversation started earlier than later.
The plate is uniform thickness, correct. I heavily considered printing the entire case but was concerned about cost and finishing quality. Furthermore, thickness variation doesn't actually buy me all that much. +5-10% uniformity or so
Post by: cptbubbles on Thu, 06 February 2020, 12:51:24
It's kinda funny that people are complaining about the 1.5u shift. If you have ever owned a 40% you would understand it is not a big deal. And changing the stagger is a big no-no.
It's a genuine concern for many who are into 75% boards but not own 40% boards/caps, though I agree that layout changes sacrificing 'correct' alpha stagger isn't the way to go about it.
Perhaps a 1.5u Rama artisan to go along with this keyboard could make everyone happy.
Post by: alphabirth on Thu, 06 February 2020, 13:03:19
Post by: JerkChicken456 on Thu, 06 February 2020, 13:24:50
Post by: Tyson on Thu, 06 February 2020, 13:31:51
Does 1.5u Shift even exist? Checked all my recent sets and found nothing.
I'm wondering the same thing, idk if there is even a 1.5u shift in 40s kits. afaik I've never seen one.
Post by: NathanielGoodtimes on Thu, 06 February 2020, 14:06:45
Post by: TheDrewscriver on Thu, 06 February 2020, 14:52:08
Post by: ibabo on Thu, 06 February 2020, 15:42:02
It's kinda funny that people are complaining about the 1.5u shift. If you have ever owned a 40% you would understand it is not a big deal. And changing the stagger is a big no-no.
It's a genuine concern for many who are into 75% boards but not own 40% boards/caps, though I agree that layout changes sacrificing 'correct' alpha stagger isn't the way to go about it.
Perhaps a 1.5u Rama artisan to go along with this keyboard could make everyone happy.
that Rama artisan idea is a really good idea
Post by: Poesjuh on Thu, 06 February 2020, 15:58:50
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: ossetepo on Thu, 06 February 2020, 16:43:26
Post by: botchm on Thu, 06 February 2020, 18:04:23
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?share_fid=2190&share_tid=104475&url=https%3A%2F%2Fgeekhack%2Eorg%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D104475&share_type=t&link_source=app ? Ooo that would look so nice
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: travwal on Thu, 06 February 2020, 18:15:29
Have you run the process on a smaller layout to lower the load conditions to help minimize the complexity of the plate?
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Thu, 06 February 2020, 18:30:33
How does the arrow, f-row, and nav column displacement compare with the alphas?
Arrows, f-row, and nav column are inherently consistent do to the fact that they are so small. Yes, they displace less compared to the alpha cluster, but since that doesn't make or break the typing experience, I think that's okay.
Have you run the process on a smaller layout to lower the load conditions to help minimize the complexity of the plate?
Yes, you'll see those results mid to late March with some comparison videos of normal vs generated plates in a few different boards
Post by: ossetepo on Thu, 06 February 2020, 18:31:30
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Thu, 06 February 2020, 19:15:55
For the keys with displacement significantly different from the average ((Q, A, Z, }], "', ?/ )) - is the displacement much more, or much less than average? I'm assuming the former, but I've been surprised before. I wonder if allowing the generative algo to adjust the thickness of the segments of "plate" around the edge of the alpha cluster would have an impact. You could almost certainly constrain the variable to not interfere with the switch, and keep it within the clearance between plate and pcb, and any CNC that can cut the existing shape shouldn't have trouble with a thickness gradient on the "plate".
It's much more. I've been talking about this with a few people and I think it's a flaw in generative setup. Since the goal is weight minimization, the algorithm prefers to not bridge the gap to the mods, creating a slighly more stressed ((Q, A, Z, }], "', ?/ )). I have a few fixes in mind for this prior to messing with varying thickness.
Post by: Beerbezerker on Thu, 06 February 2020, 19:19:58
Post by: ossetepo on Thu, 06 February 2020, 20:04:16
For the keys with displacement significantly different from the average ((Q, A, Z, }], "', ?/ )) - is the displacement much more, or much less than average? I'm assuming the former, but I've been surprised before. I wonder if allowing the generative algo to adjust the thickness of the segments of "plate" around the edge of the alpha cluster would have an impact. You could almost certainly constrain the variable to not interfere with the switch, and keep it within the clearance between plate and pcb, and any CNC that can cut the existing shape shouldn't have trouble with a thickness gradient on the "plate".
It's much more. I've been talking about this with a few people and I think it's a flaw in generative setup. Since the goal is weight minimization, the algorithm prefers to not bridge the gap to the mods, creating a slighly more stressed ((Q, A, Z, }], "', ?/ )). I have a few fixes in mind for this prior to messing with varying thickness.
Awesome. I'm very interested to hear how the optimization works out, I hope you can keep us updated on your progress.
Post by: Altirix on Thu, 06 February 2020, 22:47:04
Post by: Ahrimofnor on Thu, 06 February 2020, 23:19:55
For the keys with displacement significantly different from the average ((Q, A, Z, }], "', ?/ )) - is the displacement much more, or much less than average? I'm assuming the former, but I've been surprised before. I wonder if allowing the generative algo to adjust the thickness of the segments of "plate" around the edge of the alpha cluster would have an impact. You could almost certainly constrain the variable to not interfere with the switch, and keep it within the clearance between plate and pcb, and any CNC that can cut the existing shape shouldn't have trouble with a thickness gradient on the "plate".
It's much more. I've been talking about this with a few people and I think it's a flaw in generative setup. Since the goal is weight minimization, the algorithm prefers to not bridge the gap to the mods, creating a slighly more stressed ((Q, A, Z, }], "', ?/ )). I have a few fixes in mind for this prior to messing with varying thickness.
I'm not familiar how this works. I thought your primary goal was uniform displacement in all 150+ load cases with weight optimization as a secondary pass to force a simple design.
It seems like you are saying weight savings are prioritized higher than uniform deflection?
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Fri, 07 February 2020, 02:52:26
For the keys with displacement significantly different from the average ((Q, A, Z, }], "', ?/ )) - is the displacement much more, or much less than average? I'm assuming the former, but I've been surprised before. I wonder if allowing the generative algo to adjust the thickness of the segments of "plate" around the edge of the alpha cluster would have an impact. You could almost certainly constrain the variable to not interfere with the switch, and keep it within the clearance between plate and pcb, and any CNC that can cut the existing shape shouldn't have trouble with a thickness gradient on the "plate".
It's much more. I've been talking about this with a few people and I think it's a flaw in generative setup. Since the goal is weight minimization, the algorithm prefers to not bridge the gap to the mods, creating a slighly more stressed ((Q, A, Z, }], "', ?/ )). I have a few fixes in mind for this prior to messing with varying thickness.
I'm not familiar how this works. I thought your primary goal was uniform displacement in all 150+ load cases with weight optimization as a secondary pass to force a simple design.
It seems like you are saying weight savings are prioritized higher than uniform deflection?
Yeah, so this is still something I'm working on. There's no generative design approach to optimization of plane elasticity, I tried for a long time to read the literature and to implement something myself. For now, the next best solution was to minimize weight with a compliance constraint on each key. I'm still working on trying to do it "the right way," as I recently got in touch with a Professor who has some cool ideas on how to approach the problem.
Post by: MacGruber117 on Fri, 07 February 2020, 08:55:09
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Fri, 07 February 2020, 11:25:30
Loving the Voronoi-is base on this board. Can we get some more detailed shot of that piece? Maybe like an exploded axon of the whole thing?
I might be able to get something done over the weekend.
Post by: mononokay on Fri, 07 February 2020, 12:49:27
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: PandamanPete on Fri, 07 February 2020, 13:38:09
Post by: blond on Fri, 07 February 2020, 14:11:51
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Fri, 07 February 2020, 15:01:10
This is so cool. A little bummed that there’s only the one colorway, but I totally get it. Any chance of a r2 in a different color in the future? I’d kill for one of these in black
MetallicCharles showed me some renders of an all black Evolv earlier today. It was so amazing I'm considering adding it as a color option, would just be a shame if it never saw the light of day.
Post by: flymy on Fri, 07 February 2020, 20:13:33
Post by: PandamanPete on Fri, 07 February 2020, 23:49:09
This is so cool. A little bummed that there’s only the one colorway, but I totally get it. Any chance of a r2 in a different color in the future? I’d kill for one of these in black
MetallicCharles showed me some renders of an all black Evolv earlier today. It was so amazing I'm considering adding it as a color option, would just be a shame if it never saw the light of day.
Oh that’s great news, I’m 100% in if you end up going that route!! Best of luck with the IC, I’ll be watching closely.
Post by: alanskiii on Sat, 08 February 2020, 02:45:16
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200208/d7bcdabbfe21b8717c20011f1a35ad5b.jpg) Black EvolvThis is so cool. A little bummed that there’s only the one colorway, but I totally get it. Any chance of a r2 in a different color in the future? I’d kill for one of these in black
MetallicCharles showed me some renders of an all black Evolv earlier today. It was so amazing I'm considering adding it as a color option, would just be a shame if it never saw the light of day.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Ensaum on Sat, 08 February 2020, 13:14:28
Post by: abbabon on Sat, 08 February 2020, 13:55:28
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Sat, 08 February 2020, 14:04:28
This is dope. Will it be a limited gb?
Yup, will post the number as soon as I finalize it. I would like to QC and pack each Evolv by hand and that would be a nightmare for an unlimited GB
Definitely following, probably not have enough cash for that. But I am on the lookout for that endgame 75%... Will it be Satisfaction75 Round 2, or will I... Evolve?
:eek:
Post by: MacGyver214 on Sat, 08 February 2020, 15:08:11
Post by: GMK83 on Sat, 08 February 2020, 16:07:51
Post by: pixelpusher on Sat, 08 February 2020, 16:32:37
Post by: PandamanPete on Sat, 08 February 2020, 22:23:21
It's interesting, for sure. And I'd like to feel the typing experience with that plate. But I can't get over how bad the plate looks from above. Being able to see all the random spaces and gaps down below is enough to turn me off of the design.
That just means we’re gonna need a really pretty PCB ;)
Post by: d00deitsnik on Sun, 09 February 2020, 00:19:26
It's interesting, for sure. And I'd like to feel the typing experience with that plate. But I can't get over how bad the plate looks from above. Being able to see all the random spaces and gaps down below is enough to turn me off of the design.
That just means we’re gonna need a really pretty PCB ;)
What if it was a transparent PCB so you could see the cool wiring and kinda see the base below. OHHHH DANGGGG
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Sun, 09 February 2020, 13:20:13
Thank you for the fantastic support from everyone so far!
Post by: Jaltr on Sun, 09 February 2020, 15:25:48
Post by: melikewater on Sun, 09 February 2020, 17:00:52
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Sun, 09 February 2020, 18:21:03
Will there be a limited amount for the keyboard? I hope not; I miss GB within minutes :(
There will be a limited amount, yes. However, I'm not a big fan of FCFS, so the GB will likely be a raffle.
Post by: Raptor_N60 on Mon, 10 February 2020, 10:52:28
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Mon, 10 February 2020, 11:18:02
Not sure if this has been answered before, but since the design's goal is to achieve flex uniformity, did the design process take the pcb flex in mind? I would think the pcb would flex more in the center rather on the sides, no?
Yup, PCB flex was a huge consideration in the design process.
Post by: ElijahJMitchell on Mon, 10 February 2020, 12:28:29
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Mon, 10 February 2020, 12:49:31
Post by: Spivicles on Mon, 10 February 2020, 13:15:11
Also, can’t wait to see the Deep Navy render!
Post by: tadbitnerdy on Mon, 10 February 2020, 13:29:34
Post by: Yuray on Mon, 10 February 2020, 13:55:37
I personally like Janglad's render concept the most. The white board in combination with the metallic gold bottom peace looks stunning. (I in general think that the metallic look will fit the board the most, but thats just personal preference.)
Definitely interested. Keep it up!
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Mon, 10 February 2020, 14:25:11
An absolute beautiful looker.
I personally like Janglad's render concept the most. The white board in combination with the metallic gold bottom peace looks stunning. (I in general think that the metallic look will fit the board the most, but thats just personal preference.)
Definitely interested. Keep it up!
I agree with you, Janglad's version of the bottom piece is quite stunning. However, from speaking to manus, I don't think such a finish will be possible. MetallicCharles' version represents what the board will most likely look like during GB.
Post by: Yuray on Mon, 10 February 2020, 14:52:51
I agree with you, Janglad's version of the bottom piece is quite stunning. However, from speaking to manus, I don't think such a finish will be possible. MetallicCharles' version represents what the board will most likely look like during GB.
Ah ok, thanks for the clarification. Do you have plans on maybe doing different bottom finishes? Like copper for example (which would go really well with lighter boards i think). Or is that not a possibility for now?
Best regards
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Mon, 10 February 2020, 14:55:09
I agree with you, Janglad's version of the bottom piece is quite stunning. However, from speaking to manus, I don't think such a finish will be possible. MetallicCharles' version represents what the board will most likely look like during GB.
Ah ok, thanks for the clarification. Do you have plans on maybe doing different bottom finishes? Like copper for example (which would go really well with lighter boards i think). Or is that not a possibility for now?
Best regards
I am considering running an all-black Evolv. Beyond that, I'm not considering other materials or finishes
Post by: botchm on Mon, 10 February 2020, 15:06:10
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200210/2142f902b10d0cab5e46d7dc271701b7.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Yuray on Mon, 10 February 2020, 15:46:49
I am considering running an all-black Evolv. Beyond that, I'm not considering other materials or finishes
Join discord to look at this beauty.Show Image(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200210/2142f902b10d0cab5e46d7dc271701b7.jpg)
Wooow, that is indeed gorgeous looking! Thanks so much guys for the infos, i will definitely keep a look at this project. It deserves it.
Post by: asdds22 on Mon, 10 February 2020, 15:53:53
In a real situation, I think the load won't be only in the orthogonal axis.
I think there will be Shear stress.
How about shear stress?
when there is shear stress, all the flex will be uniformed?
curious about that
Post by: JvMil on Mon, 10 February 2020, 16:47:32
Join discord to look at this beauty.Show Image(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200210/2142f902b10d0cab5e46d7dc271701b7.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Woooww, that looks amazing. You would be lucky to get your hands on something that sick looking, it oozes some dark alien vibes.. If there is a black variant, I will definitely sign up for the raffle
Any ideas on the price yet?
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Mon, 10 February 2020, 18:46:26
I have a question about simulated load (2N).
In a real situation, I think the load won't be only in the orthogonal axis.
I think there will be Shear stress.
How about shear stress?
when there is shear stress, all the flex will be uniformed?
curious about that
This was something I tested during the prototyping process for the generative algorithm. "Shear" loads, as you define them, are negligible compared to the downwards keystroke. For the plate, the algorithm does not take them into account.
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Mon, 10 February 2020, 18:47:21
Post by: fropsie on Tue, 11 February 2020, 02:15:11
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Tue, 11 February 2020, 02:50:49
A color poll is now live to help me choose the final colorway for the Evolv. All four options are displayed both in the form and in the below:
https://forms.gle/LsNMxyGZSu8bW1nW8 (https://forms.gle/LsNMxyGZSu8bW1nW8)
Black + Raw
(https://i.imgur.com/hssIpJB.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/490Jn42.png)
White + Raw
(https://i.imgur.com/8wj3lrF.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Cy8ETBN.png)
Black + Gold
(https://i.imgur.com/xtC9AxK.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/3xGVSoL.jpg)
White + Gold
(https://i.imgur.com/A96a1DP.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/dqbaZhD.jpg)
Here's the link to the poll one more time: https://forms.gle/LsNMxyGZSu8bW1nW8 (https://forms.gle/LsNMxyGZSu8bW1nW8)
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Tue, 11 February 2020, 13:19:52
Post by: botchm on Tue, 11 February 2020, 13:34:57
Join discord to look at this beauty.Show Image(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200210/2142f902b10d0cab5e46d7dc271701b7.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Woooww, that looks amazing. You would be lucky to get your hands on something that sick looking, it oozes some dark alien vibes.. If there is a black variant, I will definitely sign up for the raffle
Any ideas on the price yet?
I know, imagine. He said very limited :( like super limited 25-45. But I told I have 1k set aside already haha
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Nivengoh on Tue, 11 February 2020, 13:38:10
Post by: notabotscammer on Tue, 11 February 2020, 19:36:58
Post by: TonyPia on Tue, 11 February 2020, 20:46:01
Post by: d00deitsnik on Tue, 11 February 2020, 21:54:52
What's your discord?
First post has a link to the discord sir.
Post by: kalayna on Wed, 12 February 2020, 08:13:24
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Wed, 12 February 2020, 08:22:28
Design nerd here, I have to ask - what software did you use to design this?
The keyboard was designed in Fusion 360. I swapped to Fusion after 7 years in solidworks prior to starting this project. Haven't looked back for a moment.
Post by: willyG on Wed, 12 February 2020, 10:16:35
Post by: hineybush on Wed, 12 February 2020, 14:58:48
may as well just make it PCB mount with a half plate
Post by: Remsky on Wed, 12 February 2020, 15:35:37
Overall I think the plate is over engineered and you could've taken a much simpler, cost effective approach if you wanted to achieve uniformity.
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Wed, 12 February 2020, 16:35:53
Its integrated plate, one side of the switch will always be stiffer when we are talking about a switch near the edge like left control or caps. The alphas look uniform enough but why not just make a half plate with just the bottom row and top row having the integrated plate so that the pcb still has something to be mounted onto with switches. Your simulations are doing one keystroke at a time rather than multiple subsequent (sometimes concurrent) strokes within a short time period of each other. People also dont always hit the center of the keycap/switch directly at a perfect 90 degrees. Some people type heavily and others light. The simulations work only in a theoretical setting and arent really practical. A partial plate will provide as much consistency in typing feel without having to worry about whether or not those switch cutouts will break or bend.
Overall I think the plate is over engineered and you could've taken a much simpler, cost effective approach if you wanted to achieve uniformity.
Let's go through this bit by bit. Much like with Iron165, all engineering was done for the worst-case scenario of 2N or 200g force if you want to compare it to spring weights. From speaking with those who have typed on a 165 FE, this worst-case engineering process works for creating a more consistent typing experience, even if it doesn't represent the average user. Next, in terms of forces being not normal to the plate, I invite you to try and type off-angle right now. Likely, your finger just slipped over the key as switches are constrained to follow a normal path to the plate. If any sideways forces exist, they are due to friction between your skin and the keycap, a force so minimal it isn't worth time approximating. Finally, to address the one keycap at a time simulations: the fastest typists on here are at 200 wpm or so? With an average word length of 5 letters, that's 1000 letters a minute or 16.6 letters a second. If we generously round up, that means you depress a key every 1/20th of a second. Under a 2N load, the spring rate of aluminum is considerably faster than that.
Post by: Remsky on Wed, 12 February 2020, 17:33:19
- go observe your fingers resting on keycaps in typing form. It is not a perfect 90 deg. My argument is that its not a single point like your simulations use but rather an entire area that may or may not exert its force evenly. You can't assume a perfect force and say it transitions to a practical scenario.Its integrated plate, one side of the switch will always be stiffer when we are talking about a switch near the edge like left control or caps. The alphas look uniform enough but why not just make a half plate with just the bottom row and top row having the integrated plate so that the pcb still has something to be mounted onto with switches. Your simulations are doing one keystroke at a time rather than multiple subsequent (sometimes concurrent) strokes within a short time period of each other. People also dont always hit the center of the keycap/switch directly at a perfect 90 degrees. Some people type heavily and others light. The simulations work only in a theoretical setting and arent really practical. A partial plate will provide as much consistency in typing feel without having to worry about whether or not those switch cutouts will break or bend.Let's go through this bit by bit. Much like with Iron165, all engineering was done for the worst-case scenario of 2N or 200g force if you want to compare it to spring weights. From speaking with those who have typed on a 165 FE, this worst-case engineering process works for creating a more consistent typing experience, even if it doesn't represent the average user. Next, in terms of forces being not normal to the plate, I invite you to try and type off-angle right now. Likely, your finger just slipped over the key as switches are constrained to follow a normal path to the plate. If any sideways forces exist, they are due to friction between your skin and the keycap, a force so minimal it isn't worth time approximating. Finally, to address the one keycap at a time simulations: the fastest typists on here are at 200 wpm or so? With an average word length of 5 letters, that's 1000 letters a minute or 16.6 letters a second. If we generously round up, that means you depress a key every 1/20th of a second. Under a 2N load, the spring rate of aluminum is considerably faster than that.
Overall I think the plate is over engineered and you could've taken a much simpler, cost effective approach if you wanted to achieve uniformity.
- 200g is way more than what is necessary to actuate a switch. Just look at the most popular spring weights which usually fall in the lower to mid 60g weighting. Lets take the point above and assume that your 90 deg theoretical typing pressure completely applies to practical typing. You can make the plate consistent for 200g, but 200g is not anywhere close to how much force is applied per keystroke. Most people bottom out their switches whether harshly or lightly. Even with people who harshly bottom out, they might increase the spring weight to the upper 70s at most. Some outliers love weights above the 70s. Those are still obscure cases since the 70-89g range is still uncommon in most custom boards relative to 50-69g range. So you are basically adjusting the feel of the board for the .001% of people who might actually constantly type with 200g of force at a reasonable WPM. Consistency != flex. Your plate can be consistently stiff and still be consistent.
- Your simulations don't even account for a pcb. This means that even if we assume your hypothetical force simulation to be a 1-1 replica of real typing, it would still be inaccurate. You aren't accounting for the fr4 pcb that will go beneath the aluminum plate and whatever thickness that you choose for it.
Sometimes consistency shouldnt always the goal, and its seriously become a fad nowadays. Perfect consistency in keyboards is extremely hard to achieve and sometimes impossible with a given mount: Your F row, arrow cluster and nav cluster won't be consistent feel wise with your alphas or mods, its just a facet of many mounting styles and how you implement flex cuts. What matters is if the board provide a comfortable typing experience on the alphas and mods where typing is most frequent. I think you are going a bit overboard with the science and not looking into the practicality of things.
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Wed, 12 February 2020, 17:57:38
- go observe your fingers resting on keycaps in typing form. It is not a perfect 90 deg. My argument is that its not a single point like your simulations use but rather an entire area that may or may not exert its force evenly. You can't assume a perfect force and say it transitions to a practical scenario.Its integrated plate, one side of the switch will always be stiffer when we are talking about a switch near the edge like left control or caps. The alphas look uniform enough but why not just make a half plate with just the bottom row and top row having the integrated plate so that the pcb still has something to be mounted onto with switches. Your simulations are doing one keystroke at a time rather than multiple subsequent (sometimes concurrent) strokes within a short time period of each other. People also dont always hit the center of the keycap/switch directly at a perfect 90 degrees. Some people type heavily and others light. The simulations work only in a theoretical setting and arent really practical. A partial plate will provide as much consistency in typing feel without having to worry about whether or not those switch cutouts will break or bend.Let's go through this bit by bit. Much like with Iron165, all engineering was done for the worst-case scenario of 2N or 200g force if you want to compare it to spring weights. From speaking with those who have typed on a 165 FE, this worst-case engineering process works for creating a more consistent typing experience, even if it doesn't represent the average user. Next, in terms of forces being not normal to the plate, I invite you to try and type off-angle right now. Likely, your finger just slipped over the key as switches are constrained to follow a normal path to the plate. If any sideways forces exist, they are due to friction between your skin and the keycap, a force so minimal it isn't worth time approximating. Finally, to address the one keycap at a time simulations: the fastest typists on here are at 200 wpm or so? With an average word length of 5 letters, that's 1000 letters a minute or 16.6 letters a second. If we generously round up, that means you depress a key every 1/20th of a second. Under a 2N load, the spring rate of aluminum is considerably faster than that.
Overall I think the plate is over engineered and you could've taken a much simpler, cost effective approach if you wanted to achieve uniformity.
- 200g is way more than what is necessary to actuate a switch. Just look at the most popular spring weights which usually fall in the lower to mid 60g weighting. Lets take the point above and assume that your 90 deg theoretical typing pressure completely applies to practical typing. You can make the plate consistent for 200g, but 200g is not anywhere close to how much force is applied per keystroke. Most people bottom out their switches whether harshly or lightly. Even with people who harshly bottom out, they might increase the spring weight to the upper 70s at most. Some outliers love weights above the 70s. Those are still obscure cases since the 70-89g range is still uncommon in most custom boards relative to 50-69g range. So you are basically adjusting the feel of the board for the .001% of people who might actually constantly type with 200g of force at a reasonable WPM. Consistency != flex. Your plate can be consistently stiff and still be consistent.
- Your simulations don't even account for a pcb. This means that even if we assume your hypothetical force simulation to be a 1-1 replica of real typing, it would still be inaccurate. You aren't accounting for the fr4 pcb that will go beneath the aluminum plate and whatever thickness that you choose for it.
Sometimes consistency shouldnt always the goal, and its seriously become a fad nowadays. Perfect consistency in keyboards is extremely hard to achieve and sometimes impossible with a given mount: Your F row, arrow cluster and nav cluster won't be consistent feel wise with your alphas or mods, its just a facet of many mounting styles and how you implement flex cuts. What matters is if the board provide a comfortable typing experience on the alphas and mods where typing is most frequent. I think you are going a bit overboard with the science and not looking into the practicality of things.
Okay, let's do this one more time.
- My simulations aren't a single point, they're force over area, with that area being the switch contact surface on the plate. With the way keycaps are designed and the way the switch physically works, the difference between pushing on the left side of the cap vs the right side of the cap is negligible when it comes to the force distribution over that area.
- 2N was an experimentally determined upper-boundary during the iron165 IC. The great thing about working with non-elastic materials (like metals) is that if flex is consistent at 2N, it's also consistent at all loads less than that.
- They do account for a PCB. You're just wrong there.
- I've never pretended I want the F-row, columns, and arrows to flex as much as the alphas flex. In fact, I'm doing exactly what you're suggesting: which is prioritizing the feel of the alphas and mods. That's the reason why there are no crazy cutouts in that section of the plate. I'm going overboard with the science to show that not only is this analysis possible in keyboards but that it has practical benefits to an end-user.
Post by: lbaron on Wed, 12 February 2020, 18:31:48
- go observe your fingers resting on keycaps in typing form. It is not a perfect 90 deg. My argument is that its not a single point like your simulations use but rather an entire area that may or may not exert its force evenly. You can't assume a perfect force and say it transitions to a practical scenario.Its integrated plate, one side of the switch will always be stiffer when we are talking about a switch near the edge like left control or caps. The alphas look uniform enough but why not just make a half plate with just the bottom row and top row having the integrated plate so that the pcb still has something to be mounted onto with switches. Your simulations are doing one keystroke at a time rather than multiple subsequent (sometimes concurrent) strokes within a short time period of each other. People also dont always hit the center of the keycap/switch directly at a perfect 90 degrees. Some people type heavily and others light. The simulations work only in a theoretical setting and arent really practical. A partial plate will provide as much consistency in typing feel without having to worry about whether or not those switch cutouts will break or bend.Let's go through this bit by bit. Much like with Iron165, all engineering was done for the worst-case scenario of 2N or 200g force if you want to compare it to spring weights. From speaking with those who have typed on a 165 FE, this worst-case engineering process works for creating a more consistent typing experience, even if it doesn't represent the average user. Next, in terms of forces being not normal to the plate, I invite you to try and type off-angle right now. Likely, your finger just slipped over the key as switches are constrained to follow a normal path to the plate. If any sideways forces exist, they are due to friction between your skin and the keycap, a force so minimal it isn't worth time approximating. Finally, to address the one keycap at a time simulations: the fastest typists on here are at 200 wpm or so? With an average word length of 5 letters, that's 1000 letters a minute or 16.6 letters a second. If we generously round up, that means you depress a key every 1/20th of a second. Under a 2N load, the spring rate of aluminum is considerably faster than that.
Overall I think the plate is over engineered and you could've taken a much simpler, cost effective approach if you wanted to achieve uniformity.
- 200g is way more than what is necessary to actuate a switch. Just look at the most popular spring weights which usually fall in the lower to mid 60g weighting. Lets take the point above and assume that your 90 deg theoretical typing pressure completely applies to practical typing. You can make the plate consistent for 200g, but 200g is not anywhere close to how much force is applied per keystroke. Most people bottom out their switches whether harshly or lightly. Even with people who harshly bottom out, they might increase the spring weight to the upper 70s at most. Some outliers love weights above the 70s. Those are still obscure cases since the 70-89g range is still uncommon in most custom boards relative to 50-69g range. So you are basically adjusting the feel of the board for the .001% of people who might actually constantly type with 200g of force at a reasonable WPM. Consistency != flex. Your plate can be consistently stiff and still be consistent.
- Your simulations don't even account for a pcb. This means that even if we assume your hypothetical force simulation to be a 1-1 replica of real typing, it would still be inaccurate. You aren't accounting for the fr4 pcb that will go beneath the aluminum plate and whatever thickness that you choose for it.
Sometimes consistency shouldnt always the goal, and its seriously become a fad nowadays. Perfect consistency in keyboards is extremely hard to achieve and sometimes impossible with a given mount: Your F row, arrow cluster and nav cluster won't be consistent feel wise with your alphas or mods, its just a facet of many mounting styles and how you implement flex cuts. What matters is if the board provide a comfortable typing experience on the alphas and mods where typing is most frequent. I think you are going a bit overboard with the science and not looking into the practicality of things.
Has it really become a fad? I feel like we were the first board to put engineering to it to try and make the typing on alphas feel more consistent.
As for your 2N being crazy. Look at this:
(https://i.imgur.com/5GACN0H.jpg).
He is playing in that sloped line on the left called the youngs modulus. As long as you don't exceed that area, metals will spring back to their original shape with no permanent deformation and behave as such. So at 2N he might exhibit a 0.15mm displacement of keycap switch, but at 0.7N it may only be 0.09mm, either way the plate will behave the same uniformly.
Post by: Remsky on Wed, 12 February 2020, 18:42:58
- Your force is still off for keys like mods and some alphas that don't have mounting/connections on all sides. Take for example the popular 3-sided space bar on OTD boards and now plenty modern boards. The flex while pressing down on the spacebar is relatively even on the top, left and right side of the spacebar switch. The bottom side of the spacebar has no mounting, it flexes considerably more than the rest. if you don't press down on the bottom side of the spacebar you wont really notice it as much. Take your left control or shift for example. They are connected via the bottom side of the switch to the plate structure/left control respectively. If I disproportionately place more force on the top side of that left shift, it will bend/flex more than if I put the same amount of force on the bottom side. Keycaps help distribute force on the switch, that doesn't mean that they perfectly spread out force. Your constraint when it comes to weighting is wrong.
Okay, let's do this one more time.
- My simulations aren't a single point, they're force over area, with that area being the switch contact surface on the plate. With the way keycaps are designed and the way the switch physically works, the difference between pushing on the left side of the cap vs the right side of the cap is negligible when it comes to the force distribution over that area.
- 2N was an experimentally determined upper-boundary during the iron165 IC. The great thing about working with non-elastic materials (like metals) is that if flex is consistent at 2N, it's also consistent at all loads less than that.
- They do account for a PCB. You're just wrong there.
- I've never pretended I want the F-row, columns, and arrows to flex as much as the alphas flex. In fact, I'm doing exactly what you're suggesting: which is prioritizing the feel of the alphas and mods. That's the reason why there are no crazy cutouts in that section of the plate. I'm going overboard with the science to show that not only is this analysis possible in keyboards but that it has practical benefits to an end-user.
- Consistency doesn't guarantee flexibility. As stated in my example above it could be guaranteed in your simulation but maybe not in a practical setting. Your QAZ column is also stiffer than the rest of the alphas because there are two connections between Q and the much stiffer numrow compared to how the rest of the switches in the qwerty row are.
- I assumed not because your simulations don't show a picture of the pcb nor do you mention that you did test with a pcb. When you say you made a visual representation of a test, then everything you tested should be present in that visualization. There is only a plate in those visualizations. You don't even make a mention of a pcb in the plate design section.
- Its great to go overboard with science when the approach is right. I disagree with your approach with this board.
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Wed, 12 February 2020, 19:18:47
- Your force is still off for keys like mods and some alphas that don't have mounting/connections on all sides. Take for example the popular 3-sided space bar on OTD boards and now plenty modern boards. The flex while pressing down on the spacebar is relatively even on the top, left and right side of the spacebar switch. The bottom side of the spacebar has no mounting, it flexes considerably more than the rest. if you don't press down on the bottom side of the spacebar you wont really notice it as much. Take your left control or shift for example. They are connected via the bottom side of the switch to the plate structure/left control respectively. If I disproportionately place more force on the top side of that left shift, it will bend/flex more than if I put the same amount of force on the bottom side. Keycaps help distribute force on the switch, that doesn't mean that they perfectly spread out force. Your constraint when it comes to weighting is wrong.
Okay, let's do this one more time.
- My simulations aren't a single point, they're force over area, with that area being the switch contact surface on the plate. With the way keycaps are designed and the way the switch physically works, the difference between pushing on the left side of the cap vs the right side of the cap is negligible when it comes to the force distribution over that area.
- 2N was an experimentally determined upper-boundary during the iron165 IC. The great thing about working with non-elastic materials (like metals) is that if flex is consistent at 2N, it's also consistent at all loads less than that.
- They do account for a PCB. You're just wrong there.
- I've never pretended I want the F-row, columns, and arrows to flex as much as the alphas flex. In fact, I'm doing exactly what you're suggesting: which is prioritizing the feel of the alphas and mods. That's the reason why there are no crazy cutouts in that section of the plate. I'm going overboard with the science to show that not only is this analysis possible in keyboards but that it has practical benefits to an end-user.
- Consistency doesn't guarantee flexibility. As stated in my example above it could be guaranteed in your simulation but maybe not in a practical setting. Your QAZ column is also stiffer than the rest of the alphas because there are two connections between Q and the much stiffer numrow compared to how the rest of the switches in the qwerty row are.
- I assumed not because your simulations don't show a picture of the pcb nor do you mention that you did test with a pcb. When you say you made a visual representation of a test, then everything you tested should be present in that visualization. There is only a plate in those visualizations. You don't even make a mention of a pcb in the plate design section.
- Its great to go overboard with science when the approach is right. I disagree with your approach with this board.
Cool. You have your opinions and I have my months of research and data analysis. Yes there are some problem areas in the plate, namely the much higher compliance values on the QAZ column. But again, as I've mentioned in both the write-up and various replies throughout the thread, the plate is ever changing. Since the IC went live I've already incorporated a lot of the constructive crtisism I've received into the model to improve generation. The QAZ issue is nearly fixed and left shift no longer floats. I apologise for not talking about PCB analysis in the write-up, but it's also information that's readily available in the thread in the form of replies to questions about that exact topic.
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Wed, 12 February 2020, 20:12:44
Post by: asdds22 on Thu, 13 February 2020, 09:47:14
The guy wants you to present in the conference-style I think. How surprised it is. I never saw a question like that in my conference experience. Or the first post should be described in a paper-style? with a proper reference?
As a mechanical engineering graduate, as a student in a master's program, the discussion made me sad. That guy didn't even know how the stress made deformation in a specific material.
Post by: vewy_nice on Thu, 13 February 2020, 11:36:40
Even though I questioned about the shear stress and Nathan replied, the discussion about orthogonal force simulation won't be over. This should be described in the first post.I do tech support for a company that makes instruments to measure fluid properties, mostly viscosity.
The guy wants you to present in the conference-style I think. How surprised it is. I never saw a question like that in my conference experience. Or the first post should be described in a paper-style? with a proper reference?
As a mechanical engineering graduate, as a student in a master's program, the discussion made me sad. That guy didn't even know how the stress made deformation in a specific material.
Sometimes I'll get a call and someone's like "My viscosity is reading very different between setup a and setup b! Why!?"
And then when I mention that setup a has a shear rate of 0.50 sec-1, and setup b has a shear rate of 65 sec-1, they're confused why that matters... And the response to me inquiring about rheological properties of their sample results in a "The what, now?"
And these are supposed to be industry professionals lol.
Anyway...
I'd type on a bed of soggy moss if it looked this sick, so... Carry on with the design!
Post by: dubious on Thu, 13 February 2020, 12:17:16
Post by: Butterbeer on Thu, 13 February 2020, 12:42:18
Post by: hottrout on Fri, 14 February 2020, 07:19:44
Interested in how the prototype actually comes out though.
Agreed. A great design and looks, hopefully it can be actually made. Good luck with this.
Post by: L8T on Fri, 14 February 2020, 11:41:12
Post by: lush_bunny on Fri, 14 February 2020, 12:39:26
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Fri, 14 February 2020, 12:52:16
Its a cool idea but idk why you are trying to get consistent feel when the plate displacement is less than 0.2mm. Im also worried about the left and right shifts pinging cuz its basically a cantilever, but i assume the plate material is stiff enough to prevent that :S Either way gl with your research!
I'm working on getting that number up, 10N/mm is the target for compliance.
With the amount of interest this board is generating, I doubt I’ll get a slot. Apart from that, discussion in discord is implying big bucks. So I have to ask: will a round 2 be considered? Thanks!
Let's get round 1 done first. ;D
Post by: flysloth on Fri, 14 February 2020, 20:46:06
I like the rotary joystick.
Post by: BlankeyGotCaps on Mon, 17 February 2020, 09:43:57
Post by: Darthbaggins on Tue, 18 February 2020, 21:40:30
Post by: YoRHannya on Wed, 19 February 2020, 02:21:23
Post by: Felt on Thu, 20 February 2020, 23:42:51
Post by: BanksE on Fri, 21 February 2020, 00:10:02
Post by: Void225 on Fri, 21 February 2020, 10:23:13
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Fri, 21 February 2020, 12:08:21
Is this board going to be run via normal GB or is it going to be a raffle? thx
The board will be run via raffle. Quantity, Date, and Price are all still TBD.
Post by: Crack85 on Fri, 21 February 2020, 12:52:32
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Fri, 21 February 2020, 15:52:53
Raffle.... Well there goes my chance of getting one. Really cool board though.
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
I'm still considering whether or not to have a limited amount of boards reserved for a Vickery auction after the raffle spots deliver. So not all hope is gone :p
Post by: JayBeamz on Fri, 21 February 2020, 19:57:01
Post by: dom on Fri, 21 February 2020, 23:25:10
I'm still considering whether or not to have a limited amount of boards reserved for a Vickery auction after the raffle spots deliver. So not all hope is gone :p
Life is short. Please do unlimited GB ;D
Post by: triplec110h on Sat, 22 February 2020, 13:29:01
Post by: Karni on Sat, 22 February 2020, 15:46:17
Post by: godofdeath on Sat, 22 February 2020, 17:55:14
Post by: Crack85 on Sat, 22 February 2020, 17:56:32
Is there a list of kits that give us a 1.5u shift?Very very few.
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Post by: WZ3R0 on Mon, 24 February 2020, 18:48:15
Post by: PocketAces on Tue, 25 February 2020, 18:56:15
I would definitely go in on an all black.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Thu, 27 February 2020, 03:53:40
What’s the knob material again?
I would definitely go in on an all black.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
As of right now, the knob is alu
Post by: FaKe_VirTual on Thu, 27 February 2020, 05:17:30
Great Job!!
Post by: PocketAces on Thu, 27 February 2020, 06:37:02
Any chance the knob 3D file would be available for us to play with? It could be interesting to see people customize the knob in different ways.What’s the knob material again?
I would definitely go in on an all black.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
As of right now knob is alu
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Fri, 28 February 2020, 04:41:15
Any chance the knob 3D file would be available for us to play with? It could be interesting to see people customize the knob in different ways.What’s the knob material again?
I would definitely go in on an all black.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
As of right now, the knob is alu
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes! In fact, I have some extra special plans for the spot.
Post by: PocketAces on Sat, 29 February 2020, 09:02:46
Every day I pray that I get a spot in this raffle. Pleaaaaase do that all black version you teased earlier.Any chance the knob 3D file would be available for us to play with? It could be interesting to see people customize the knob in different ways.What’s the knob material again?
I would definitely go in on an all black.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
As of right now, the knob is alu
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes! In fact, I have some extra special plans for the spot.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: asianfork on Mon, 02 March 2020, 23:31:04
Post by: chanceofthat on Mon, 02 March 2020, 23:31:35
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Tue, 03 March 2020, 10:42:07
I joined geekhack today because this is the first keyboard I've actually wanted badly enough to join the community.
<3
I keep going back to this post because I find this case to be very interesting. However, I feel like there will be a lot of durability issues or even the easiness of cleaning the board.
Despite looking weak, I can assure you Evolv is not. 7075 aluminum is really strong stuff, and the bottom piece has been stress tested to take a trucks worth of weight. Ease of cleaning is definitely a valid concern, better stock up on air canisters :p
Post by: TonyPia on Tue, 03 March 2020, 11:01:29
I keep going back to this post because I find this case to be very interesting. However, I feel like there will be a lot of durability issues or even the easiness of cleaning the board.
maybe clear PC casing?
Post by: KZzzz on Tue, 03 March 2020, 11:06:44
Post by: abrokencondom on Tue, 03 March 2020, 20:42:55
Post by: mypainishurt on Wed, 04 March 2020, 23:31:15
Post by: sdaf2 on Thu, 05 March 2020, 00:53:30
I'm going to cry when I see the price
Post by: Magas on Fri, 06 March 2020, 08:23:20
Post by: Zeelobby on Fri, 06 March 2020, 08:56:20
I mean, I'm assuming it's going to be around Infinitum price for sure.Not the maker, so cant say for sure, but id expect to add at least $400 to that price point.
Post by: Sycomore on Fri, 06 March 2020, 09:52:08
I mean, I'm assuming it's going to be around Infinitum price for sure.Not the maker, so cant say for sure, but id expect to add at least $400 to that price point.
This is 100% gonna be 700 minimum and that would be wishful thinking.
Post by: eniigma on Fri, 06 March 2020, 09:52:22
I mean, I'm assuming it's going to be around Infinitum price for sure.probably not, I've heard estimates for this around the $1k range. but for what it's worth, the tech being used to manu this board actually costs that much, and that is reflected in the price for this board
Post by: Zeelobby on Fri, 06 March 2020, 11:13:01
Yeah. If anything it'll be well over the 1K mark when all is said and done. It's nice to dream, but manufacturing of designs like this ain't cheap.I mean, I'm assuming it's going to be around Infinitum price for sure.probably not, I've heard estimates for this around the $1k range. but for what it's worth, the tech being used to manu this board actually costs that much, and that is reflected in the price for this board
Post by: Kaptain Mike on Fri, 06 March 2020, 11:33:56
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Fri, 06 March 2020, 13:08:18
I’m new to all this so would someone explain or point me in the right direction on how this “Buy” is likely to work? What’s a vickery auction? How do these raffles work? No group buy for this? What’s the best way to stay in the loop on how to get this board? It’s the only board that’s really calling my name so I’d like to get in on this as I’ve made some real progress with work this year and I want to reward myself.
The group buy will be raffle style. A Raffle window will open on the date of the GB and will stay open for some undisclosed amount of time. During that time, every entrant is allowed one, and only one entry. Any attempts to circumvent that rule will have all of your entries canceled and you will be barred from entering future raffles. Once the raffle closes I will randomly select the winners from the list of entrants. Winners will then be announced here on the Discord, and the GB thread on GeekHack. Winners will have 24 hours to pay their invoices. If they don't, they forfeit their spot to the next person.
Best way to stay in the loop is to follow this thread and to join my discord server.
Yeah. If anything it'll be well over the 1K mark when all is said and done. It's nice to dream, but manufacturing of designs like this ain't cheap.I mean, I'm assuming it's going to be around Infinitum price for sure.probably not, I've heard estimates for this around the $1k range. but for what it's worth, the tech being used to manu this board actually costs that much, and that is reflected in the price for this board
I'm doing my best to keep it under the 1k mark, but yeah, it's gonna be expensive.
Post by: ButoLeto on Sat, 07 March 2020, 03:12:37
Post by: josue on Sun, 08 March 2020, 01:06:23
Post by: baoduy23 on Mon, 09 March 2020, 01:38:14
Post by: pear_voz on Mon, 09 March 2020, 04:14:20
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Mon, 09 March 2020, 06:09:49
Damn! I mean for such a long time I can decide to bring out my money. But! So sad to hear you will run the raffle, why not public GB? You can pick out some special color/change for the raffle, but I know many people want public GB...really sad
The raffle is a public GB. Anyone can join the raffle with equal chances of winning. However, since this is my first board, an unlimited GB would simply be much too insane for me to handle, hence why I'm choosing to raffle the limited amount of spots.
Post by: dom on Mon, 09 March 2020, 14:25:01
The raffle is a public GB. Anyone can join the raffle with equal chances of winning. However, since this is my first board, an unlimited GB would simply be much too insane for me to handle, hence why I'm choosing to raffle the limited amount of spots.
I also feel the "raffle" style GB is the best and fair solution, for both sides.
The design is insane :)
Gool luck to everyone! and big THANKS for NathanAlphaMan for bringing such cool designs! :thumb:
Post by: Hellenic94 on Mon, 09 March 2020, 20:09:17
Post by: Digby on Mon, 09 March 2020, 20:29:47
Post by: PocketAces on Mon, 09 March 2020, 21:02:32
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: julianlamme on Tue, 10 March 2020, 18:39:49
Post by: Sycomore on Wed, 11 March 2020, 00:18:27
The raffle is a public GB. Anyone can join the raffle with equal chances of winning. However, since this is my first board, an unlimited GB would simply be much too insane for me to handle, hence why I'm choosing to raffle the limited amount of spots.
I also feel the "raffle" style GB is the best and fair solution, for both sides.
The design is insane :)
Gool luck to everyone! and big THANKS for NathanAlphaMan for bringing such cool designs! :thumb:
I agree with this sentiment, it allows for everyone to have at least a chance be it slim to get one. Also don't want another GSKT-00 groupbuy happening, because I can see it happening with this board.
Post by: baoduy23 on Sat, 14 March 2020, 05:34:55
Post by: Blitzschnitzel on Sat, 14 March 2020, 06:16:06
https://www.flickr.com/photos/imaterialise/sets/72157625860613542
Post by: konstantin on Sat, 14 March 2020, 06:44:09
Very cool design. But I doubt the bottom will look like in the renderings. Laser sintered parts are very stripy. you can polish them but there is no chance to reach those inside areas.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/imaterialise/sets/72157625860613542
From a layman's perspective, it does seem like aluminum 3D printing would be an issue. Indeed, this has been my main concern with the design ever since I first saw it.
Post by: Zeelobby on Sat, 14 March 2020, 07:27:43
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Sat, 14 March 2020, 12:13:47
Very cool design. But I doubt the bottom will look like in the renderings. Laser sintered parts are very stripy. you can polish them but there is no chance to reach those inside areas.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/imaterialise/sets/72157625860613542
You're right the bottom will likely not look like the renders. Protos should be here soon and I've been working with hard my manu to make the bottom as smooth as possible. Very excited to see how it comes out, renders will be updated accordingly from there.
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Sat, 14 March 2020, 12:17:26
Quite worried about the plate. I & many hate integrated plate, the sound and typing experience is terrible.
Sound is a massive concern of mine. I won't release a board that I think sounds poor. There's a lot of things going on internally that should hopefully help the board sound amazing.
As far as typing feel goes, that's the entire point of the generative design. Ideally, it will feel better than anything you've ever typed on before.
Post by: Bleurk on Tue, 17 March 2020, 08:55:57
Post by: alper_maestro on Sun, 22 March 2020, 16:28:26
Does it come with a hot-swappable option?
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Tue, 24 March 2020, 01:48:40
Would love to see a Silver+Grey color combination.
Does it come with a hot-swappable option?
There will not be a hot-swap option
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Tue, 24 March 2020, 16:58:22
Small update, the prototype has just finished production and will be shipping to me from the factory soon. Once it arrives, I'll take some time to evaluate and then write an update post regarding my next steps in this project. Just want to thank everyone for the support so far, this project has been a fantastic ride so far, and I can't wait to see it to completion.
- Nathan
Post by: Spressa on Tue, 24 March 2020, 19:07:43
Post by: FancyFootwork on Tue, 24 March 2020, 21:13:11
Hi everyone,
Small update, the prototype has just finished production and will be shipping to me from the factory soon. Once it arrives, I'll take some time to evaluate and then write an update post regarding my next steps in this project. Just want to thank everyone for the support so far, this project has been a fantastic ride so far, and I can't wait to see it to completion.
- Nathan
Thanks for the update.
I was curious about the raffle because this will by my first one. I'm assuming we will be paying to enter the raffle or is that free? If so, how much is it to enter the raffle?
This KB concepts look amazing btw. Just like a few other guys in this thread, I signed up to this forum to keep an eye on this KB.
Post by: SryImBadAtNaming on Tue, 24 March 2020, 21:18:28
Post by: konstantin on Tue, 24 March 2020, 21:56:57
I was curious about the raffle because this will by my first one. I'm assuming we will be paying to enter the raffle or is that free? If so, how much is it to enter the raffle?
This is up to the runner, but raffles are usually free to enter. However, I will say that since this keyboard is likely going to be very expensive (even by custom keyboard standards), it's only fair that people enter only if they actually want one and are willing to pay for it if they get drawn.
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Tue, 24 March 2020, 22:09:27
I was curious about the raffle because this will by my first one. I'm assuming we will be paying to enter the raffle or is that free? If so, how much is it to enter the raffle?
This is up to the runner, but raffles are usually free to enter. However, I will say that since this keyboard is likely going to be very expensive (even by custom keyboard standards), it's only fair that people enter only if they actually want one and are willing to pay for it if they get drawn.
Yep, raffle will be free to enter. Constantine makes a good point as well, please only enter if you're prepared to pay for the keyboard, as failure to pay will lower your odds in future raffles.
Post by: brizzzle on Tue, 24 March 2020, 22:41:36
Hi everyone,
Small update, the prototype has just finished production and will be shipping to me from the factory soon. Once it arrives, I'll take some time to evaluate and then write an update post regarding my next steps in this project. Just want to thank everyone for the support so far, this project has been a fantastic ride so far, and I can't wait to see it to completion.
- Nathan
excited to see the proto! this board's design is refreshing to see.
Post by: endjy on Wed, 25 March 2020, 04:31:58
Post by: myxophobia on Thu, 26 March 2020, 02:31:26
Post by: FancyFootwork on Thu, 26 March 2020, 13:29:17
I was curious about the raffle because this will by my first one. I'm assuming we will be paying to enter the raffle or is that free? If so, how much is it to enter the raffle?
This is up to the runner, but raffles are usually free to enter. However, I will say that since this keyboard is likely going to be very expensive (even by custom keyboard standards), it's only fair that people enter only if they actually want one and are willing to pay for it if they get drawn.
Yep, raffle will be free to enter. Constantine makes a good point as well, please only enter if you're prepared to pay for the keyboard, as failure to pay will lower your odds in future raffles.
Thanks. Paying won't be an issue, I was just curious how the raffle worked. I was actually hoping the raffle would require a fee so only more serious buyers would join. Look forward to entering. :)
Post by: f1 on Fri, 27 March 2020, 14:23:39
Thank you for bringing this into my life Nathan :-*
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Fri, 27 March 2020, 15:46:37
Given the complexity and the intricacies involved in making such a beautiful piece of art I am hoping there will be a QC check to match. This might result in a few B-stock pieces to be released later for the unlucky souls who weren’t picked for the A-stock raffle.
Thank you for bringing this into my life Nathan :-*
Exactly, given the price point and technology behind the board, QC will be taken very seriously and it's inevitable there will be B-stock. However, I haven't even begun to consider what I will do with those boards.
Post by: f1 on Fri, 27 March 2020, 23:15:59
Post by: keeboards on Sat, 28 March 2020, 01:14:35
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Sat, 28 March 2020, 01:59:58
I would also be down for a Vickrey auction for original "A-stock" kits if there are any remaining after the raffle. This is a beautiful design, and I would love to get one of these boards!
Do let me know if it is going to be a Vickrey Auction for the B-stock, and I will do the same for my left kidney two weeks beforehand :(
The Vickrey auction will be for A-stock. Still haven't thought about B-stock, but it will likely be raffled or FCFS.
Post by: Jhonan on Sat, 28 March 2020, 20:34:38
Post by: baobaozi on Wed, 01 April 2020, 20:42:04
Post by: ephemeral25 on Thu, 02 April 2020, 08:39:51
And I will still ahve to pays customs and VAT after that lol. The design is so unique I am willing to put 1 month of apprenticeship into it.
Good luck with next steps !
Post by: mckeown1504 on Thu, 02 April 2020, 12:47:56
Post by: Dexter on Thu, 02 April 2020, 15:33:30
Post by: lysergic acid on Thu, 02 April 2020, 15:45:29
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Thu, 02 April 2020, 16:55:06
will the top portion be made in the same fashion as the base?
No. The top is machined out of 7075 Aluminum
Post by: Zion_4eb on Thu, 02 April 2020, 18:49:29
Post by: jooobe on Thu, 02 April 2020, 20:19:57
Post by: h33t on Fri, 03 April 2020, 18:30:51
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Fri, 03 April 2020, 21:11:56
Post by: Module on Sat, 04 April 2020, 10:00:52
Post by: CrazyAssMonkey on Sat, 04 April 2020, 10:31:35
Looks stunning, hope I can get in on this.
Man you really are gonna blow through your stimulus check at this rate. :eek: :thumb:
You've gone in on every post I see.
Post by: Kallus on Sat, 04 April 2020, 14:21:16
The keyboard looks absolutely amazing and i love the design and the concept behind it.
Post by: migrained on Sat, 04 April 2020, 15:58:25
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Sun, 05 April 2020, 00:41:15
One thing that i see as a possibility when it comes to the design of multiple plate is that you can use the same constraints and general method but play around with which parts that you don't want the software to change. The downside to this of course is that you would have to make different programs to run on the CNC machine. But i guess this price is minimized if you were to use another type of mounting than an integrated plate.
The keyboard looks absolutely amazing and i love the design and the concept behind it.
Not a direct response to your comment, but with the help of a few others, I've managed to get good results on plates with multiple layout options. While it needs physical testing, the current version of the Evolv model has support for stepped caps and split backspace.
Post by: Kallus on Sun, 05 April 2020, 09:34:03
One thing that i see as a possibility when it comes to the design of multiple plate is that you can use the same constraints and general method but play around with which parts that you don't want the software to change. The downside to this of course is that you would have to make different programs to run on the CNC machine. But i guess this price is minimized if you were to use another type of mounting than an integrated plate.
The keyboard looks absolutely amazing and i love the design and the concept behind it.
Not a direct response to your comment, but with the help of a few others, I've managed to get good results on plates with multiple layout options. While it needs physical testing, the current version of the Evolv model has support for stepped caps and split backspace.
That sounds awesome
Post by: Meowsaur on Sun, 05 April 2020, 11:28:15
Really looking forward to seeing the prototype.
Post by: konstantin on Sun, 05 April 2020, 12:15:58
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Sun, 05 April 2020, 20:46:06
Glad to see split Backspace support on this. Keep up the good work!
Not going to open an official poll or anything, but what other potential layouts would people be interested in seeing?
1) I've considered split space bars as a potential layout addition, but have received mixed reviews from people I've shown it too:
(https://i.imgur.com/hPOJ9Ri.png)
2) ISO is unlikely to happen, I've been working on it, but the geometry of the key is pretty complicated to incorporate with the constraints I have.
3) Despite that, would there still be interest in a split right shift?
Post by: Daneel_ on Sun, 05 April 2020, 22:09:13
Stepped caps is solid gold for me. Thank you! That split space option would also be very interesting for me since it would let me run three keys on the right of the space bar.
Post by: fakedSkill on Sun, 05 April 2020, 22:35:20
I'd be very interested in 3x 1.25u keys on the bottom left instead of 1.5, 1, 1.5. A 1.25
Agree and i like the split space bars
Post by: konstantin on Sun, 05 April 2020, 23:15:06
Not going to open an official poll or anything, but what other potential layouts would people be interested in seeing?
1) I've considered split space bars as a potential layout addition, but have received mixed reviews from people I've shown it too:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/hPOJ9Ri.png)
2) ISO is unlikely to happen, I've been working on it, but the geometry of the key is pretty complicated to incorporate with the constraints I have.
3) Despite that, would there still be interest in a split right shift?
While I do like the layout of those spacebars, I'm a bit put off by the asymmetry between the left and right bottom mods. So it's a mixed review from me too.
As for #3, I'm assuming you mean split left shift. I like to use split LShift on ANSI boards, so it would be nice to have that as an option.
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Mon, 06 April 2020, 00:02:07
I'd be very interested in 3x 1.25u keys on the bottom left instead of 1.5, 1, 1.5. A 1.25 or 1u shift on the right would be interesting too, although I appreciate that it makes for uneven spacing between the shift and arrow block.
Stepped caps is solid gold for me. Thank you! That split space option would also be very interesting for me since it would let me run three keys on the right of the space bar.
I'd be very interested in 3x 1.25u keys on the bottom left instead of 1.5, 1, 1.5. A 1.25
Agree and i like the split space bars
3x 1.25u keys won't happen, as there's no way to make the right side of the spacebar look good in that scenario. The asymmetry that results due to the split bars is the exact reason I've received mixed reviews from friends, so good to know that sentiment is echoed.
The 1.5u shift is staying, using a 1.25u shift with a larger blocker would be insanely ugly in my opinion.
Not going to open an official poll or anything, but what other potential layouts would people be interested in seeing?
1) I've considered split space bars as a potential layout addition, but have received mixed reviews from people I've shown it too:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/hPOJ9Ri.png)
2) ISO is unlikely to happen, I've been working on it, but the geometry of the key is pretty complicated to incorporate with the constraints I have.
3) Despite that, would there still be interest in a split right shift?
While I do like the layout of those spacebars, I'm a bit put off by the asymmetry between the left and right bottom mods. So it's a mixed review from me too.
As for #3, I'm assuming you mean split left shift. I like to use split LShift on ANSI boards, so it would be nice to have that as an option.
I do mean split left shift, that was a typo on my part, thank you for catching it!
Post by: child on Mon, 06 April 2020, 02:40:12
Not going to open an official poll or anything, but what other potential layouts would people be interested in seeing?
1) I've considered split space bars as a potential layout addition, but have received mixed reviews from people I've shown it too:
I prefer split space and this layout is fine with me - although there is an asymmetry, I use the mods around space bars a lot and the easier it is for my thumb to reach them the better. On the other hand a 1.25 mod between space bars (the way 6.25 space bar is often split) is useless to me, because it's very uncomfortable to reach it.
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Mon, 06 April 2020, 03:01:39
Not going to open an official poll or anything, but what other potential layouts would people be interested in seeing?
1) I've considered split space bars as a potential layout addition, but have received mixed reviews from people I've shown it too:
I prefer split space and this layout is fine with me - although there is an asymmetry, I use the mods around space bars a lot and the easier it is for my thumb to reach them the better. On the other hand a 1.25 mod between space bars (the way 6.25 space bar is often split) is useless to me, because it's very uncomfortable to reach it.
Agreed, I personally dislike putting any key between the split spacebars as it becomes hard to reach, hence the solution I've detailed above. Thank you for the feedback!
Post by: PallyP on Mon, 06 April 2020, 03:25:31
This is Amazing! I now can't decide if I should wait for this or get the 7V. Doing both would be awesome but a big hit on my wallet. Will definitely follow this tho. :)
I'm also conflicted on whether to wait :( any loose estimate on when a GB will happen?
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Mon, 06 April 2020, 04:10:56
This is Amazing! I now can't decide if I should wait for this or get the 7V. Doing both would be awesome but a big hit on my wallet. Will definitely follow this tho. :)
I'm also conflicted on whether to wait :( any loose estimate on when a GB will happen?
4-5 months at the earliest, especially given the current economic situation
Post by: Daneel_ on Tue, 07 April 2020, 12:11:16
3x 1.25u keys won't happen, as there's no way to make the right side of the spacebar look good in that scenario. The asymmetry that results due to the split bars is the exact reason I've received mixed reviews from friends, so good to know that sentiment is echoed.
Sorry - I feel like you think I’m talking about the right hand side of the board. I’m talking about the left-hand side of the board for 3x 1.25u keys. Currently you have 1.5u, 1u, 1.5u.
If this is what you mean, then I don’t quite understand your comment about symmetry, since you’ve placed two 1.25u keys on the right. Surely using 1.25u keys on the left would look more symmetrical?
I feel like the number of options for 1.25u keys is far greater. Certainly none of the sets I own provide great coverage for 1.5u bottom row keys - they’re mostly the 1.25u standard size, with some 1u thrown in too.
The spacing wouldn’t change, and you could still keep compatibility with a 1.5u, 1u, 1.5u layout too, similar to how you’ve offered regular and stepped capslock.
Thanks for replying though, and for considering others’ input on this project. I’m providing feedback because I want this board to be great too :)
Post by: Daneel_ on Tue, 07 April 2020, 12:18:44
I feel like the layout choices you’ve made will definitely suit a set of people, while also isolating a different set. It’s a stylistic choice and I completely respect it, it just isn’t for me. Damn I hope this board goes well though! It’s so close to an ideal layout for me, and I love the trellis framing.
Thanks for your time and effort!
Post by: cypis666 on Tue, 07 April 2020, 12:24:26
Post by: konstantin on Tue, 07 April 2020, 12:50:51
Two seconds after posting I’ve realised that 3x1.25u on the left is 0.25u narrower than your layout, so indeed it doesn’t work, sorry.
This. Honestly I think most people who are used to 3×1.25u won't mind 1.5u–1u–1.5u much.
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Tue, 07 April 2020, 13:47:53
Two seconds after posting I’ve realised that 3x1.25u on the left is 0.25u narrower than your layout, so indeed it doesn’t work, sorry.
I feel like the layout choices you’ve made will definitely suit a set of people, while also isolating a different set. It’s a stylistic choice and I completely respect it, it just isn’t for me. Damn I hope this board goes well though! It’s so close to an ideal layout for me, and I love the trellis framing.
Thanks for your time and effort!
Yeah, that was probably my bad for oversimplifying my reasoning. Indeed, if we use 3x1.25 and 6.25u bar, it would result in a 2.75u gap that you need to fill with two keys, which isn't possible if you want those keys to be the same. The Tsangan 1.5-1-1.5 is the compromise I decided on to ensure that the right side of the spacebar didn't look strange with mismatched keys. I initially had a 1.25-1-1.25 version that could either be filled by 2x 1.5 or 3x 1u. However, I opted to keep the more commonly used stagger of Tsangan/ WKL for usability and aesthetic reasons.
Another option I explored was using a 6u bar and the standard 3x 1.25u stagger, but not only would that not fix the problem by forcing you to put 3x 1u or 2x 1.5u on the right, but it would mean an Evolv user would need to buy a spacebar kit for physical compat.
Hopefully, this explains it clearly for anybody reading through the thread later, again, I do apologize for the overly concise explanation earlier. It is not trivial to see why messing with things on the left side of the spacebar would change something on the right side unless you knew the spacebar was moving as well.
Two seconds after posting I’ve realised that 3x1.25u on the left is 0.25u narrower than your layout, so indeed it doesn’t work, sorry.
This. Honestly I think most people who are used to 3×1.25u won't mind 1.5u–1u–1.5u much.
I've personally never mis-hit a key swapping between standard and Tsangan stagger.
Post by: TEL_Venom on Wed, 08 April 2020, 08:57:00
Post by: Daneel_ on Wed, 08 April 2020, 10:43:49
My issues are partially with having keycaps that can be used with this layout. I don’t really have any 1.5u mods, sadly, hence why this layout doesn’t really work for me, but that’s just me.
Still think it’s a cool board, but I’ll let others pick up this beauty :D
Post by: activationemailsareshi on Wed, 08 April 2020, 11:11:02
Am I correct that the base kit of GMK Umbra doesn't contain the proper right shift? Would love to see a render of a black + raw with that keycap set.
Post by: Pach on Wed, 08 April 2020, 11:30:47
Huge fan of s75 layout and this emits the same wavelength for sure. Crazy how good home pgup pgdown end look on your renders. I always wanted such layout on a custom.GMK Umbra does not have a 1.5u shift key.
Am I correct that the base kit of GMK Umbra doesn't contain the proper right shift? Would love to see a render of a black + raw with that keycap set.
However, I would also like to see a render on a black + raw. :p
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Wed, 08 April 2020, 11:46:04
Thanks, I really appreciate the comprehensive response and the consideration behind your choices.
My issues are partially with having keycaps that can be used with this layout. I don’t really have any 1.5u mods, sadly, hence why this layout doesn’t really work for me, but that’s just me.
Still think it’s a cool board, but I’ll let others pick up this beauty :D
Any GMK or KAT set will have at least 4x r4 1.5 mods in it for Tsangan support, since Evolv only needs three of them you should be completely fine in terms of physical compatibility. Of course, this doesn't apply to 3-4-3 profiled SA.
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Wed, 08 April 2020, 14:02:15
I'm excited to announce the prototype has arrived!
It will take a few days to do a writeup on what I feel about it and design changes to come (if any). "Professional" photos will go up with the write-up, only have my phone right now and ain't nobody wanna see potato pics. Do note, I don't have the proper equipment to record a sound-test, so TBD on what I will do with that. I also don't have the PCBs in hand yet, so I won't be able to do a full build until I get them.
Thank you again for all the support so far,
- Nathan
Post by: PocketAces on Wed, 08 April 2020, 14:11:17
Good Afternoon Geekhack!One step closer
I'm excited to announce the prototype has arrived!
It will take a few days to do a writeup on what I feel about it and design changes to come (if any). "Professional" photos will go up with the write-up, only have my phone right now and ain't nobody wanna see potato pics. Do note, I don't have the proper equipment to record a sound-test, so TBD on what I will do with that. I also don't have the PCBs in hand yet, so I won't be able to do a full build until I get them.
Thank you again for all the support so far,
- Nathan
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: lockett on Wed, 08 April 2020, 16:09:50
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Thu, 09 April 2020, 14:09:06
(https://i.imgur.com/Wtj14TD.jpg)
More will go live with the writeup, but I couldn't hold myself back from posting a teaser :p
Post by: elDuderino on Thu, 09 April 2020, 14:31:50
The first official photo is live as a teaser!Oh lawdShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/Wtj14TD.jpg)
More will go live with the writeup, but I couldn't hold myself back from posting a teaser :p
I need it
Post by: TEL_Venom on Thu, 09 April 2020, 14:34:55
The first official photo is live as a teaser!Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/Wtj14TD.jpg)
More will go live with the writeup, but I couldn't hold myself back from posting a teaser :p
Looking reaaaal good.
Post by: L8T on Thu, 09 April 2020, 14:43:37
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Thu, 09 April 2020, 14:56:10
Now run it over with a truck to prove us that it can support your claims :P
Let's wait until the PCBs arrive and I can test the board :thumb:
Post by: ephemeral25 on Thu, 09 April 2020, 14:57:38
I guess it is hard to archieve the cleaness of the renders but this is far from it IMO
Post by: nasp on Thu, 09 April 2020, 15:00:30
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Thu, 09 April 2020, 15:06:17
Will the grainy look of the 3D printed part be improved?
I guess it is hard to archieve the cleaness of the renders but this is far from it IMO
When rendering, I had no clue what the bottom would look like, so I and the other renderers were just taking guesses. However, while I personally love the current grainy aesthetic, I have plans to make it smooth. More on that when my writeup of the proto goes live.
Nice tease. When do we get to see more?
Next few days as I collect my thoughts about the prototype and post the full writeup.
Post by: Jaltr on Thu, 09 April 2020, 15:11:17
The first official photo is live as a teaser!Very reminiscent of the Adidas Ultraboost 4Ds! Love it to death <3Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/Wtj14TD.jpg)
More will go live with the writeup, but I couldn't hold myself back from posting a teaser
Post by: OmniSzron on Thu, 09 April 2020, 15:30:25
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Thu, 09 April 2020, 15:37:04
Yeah, I actually don't mind the graininess. I was afraid it might look like plastic 3D printing, with visible layers. This actually looks better than I had expected. I'm pretty stoked.
Yeah, DLMS (metal printing) is a fundamentally different process to what you think of when you think of plastic printing (FDM). In DMLS, aluminum powder is cured at high resolution by a laser, instead of being deposited by a print head. If you want to learn more, this video explains it nicely: In short, layer lines aren't an issue with the process, but the inherent porosity of the metal is.
Post by: brizzzle on Thu, 09 April 2020, 19:07:03
The first official photo is live as a teaser!Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/Wtj14TD.jpg)
More will go live with the writeup, but I couldn't hold myself back from posting a teaser :p
whoa! first proto looks nice, eager to read your full writeup.
Post by: fakedSkill on Thu, 09 April 2020, 19:15:33
The first official photo is live as a teaser!Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/Wtj14TD.jpg)
More will go live with the writeup, but I couldn't hold myself back from posting a teaser :p
Looks sick! gief plx
Post by: OmniSzron on Fri, 10 April 2020, 04:45:36
Yeah, DLMS (metal printing) is a fundamentally different process to what you think of when you think of plastic printing (FDM). In DMLS, aluminum powder is cured at high resolution by a laser, instead of being deposited by a print head.Well, Today I Learned. Pretty cool stuff. So what you're saying metal 3D printing is more like Pringles are to normal chips. You create the shape out of powdered metal.
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Fri, 10 April 2020, 10:54:05
Yeah, DLMS (metal printing) is a fundamentally different process to what you think of when you think of plastic printing (FDM). In DMLS, aluminum powder is cured at high resolution by a laser, instead of being deposited by a print head.Well, Today I Learned. Pretty cool stuff. So what you're saying metal 3D printing is more like Pringles are to normal chips. You create the shape out of powdered metal.
I had no clue that's how Pringles are made, but that's exactly right.
Post by: Kaptain Mike on Sat, 11 April 2020, 12:46:48
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Sat, 11 April 2020, 17:28:34
Wow that pic is a hell of a teaser!!! Good job with everything so far. I am looking forward to your write up and of course more pictures!! Oh one question, do we know the final color choices? Edit: I see the color poll outcome was black and gold. Is this final? Black and raw was my preferred choice. Gold is cool and all but we all know everybody likes raw ;)
Black & Gold won the poll, that's why I ordered it as the proto. Final color choices have not been determined yet.
Post by: PrinceCornNM on Mon, 13 April 2020, 12:36:27
Post by: L8T on Thu, 16 April 2020, 14:22:25
Post by: goaliedavid on Thu, 16 April 2020, 14:30:36
Post by: h33t on Tue, 21 April 2020, 16:46:54
Post by: JustinUtherdude on Tue, 21 April 2020, 17:56:53
Post by: ppnp253 on Tue, 21 April 2020, 18:33:19
Black and Gold! Any ideas roughly how much this might go for?
I believe OP said it's gonna run close to $1000
I'm excited. I think I'm definitely in for one, maybe even two if Black + Copper with a copper rotary joystick is an added as an option. On a different note, would this build style be possible without the metal-printed angled riser underneath, with 0* angle on the keyboard. I really like the pcb/keyboard layout and would love something similar with flip out feet for travel.
AFAIK, because of the price point and quality control, they are gonna be raffled off so I doubt you will be able to get two.
Post by: Pluto19 on Fri, 24 April 2020, 00:09:14
Post by: L8T on Fri, 24 April 2020, 00:21:06
Have we run this over with a truck yet?
Not yet but im just as hyped about it! Id love to see how 3d printed alu compares to the computer analysis!
Post by: xperii on Sun, 26 April 2020, 10:50:22
Post by: roznalos on Sun, 26 April 2020, 15:05:31
Post by: KaosJ on Sun, 26 April 2020, 16:56:35
Anyway, about the bottom 3d AlSi10Mg part, will it be polished a bit?
Post by: jimmyxtlee on Mon, 27 April 2020, 12:22:33
Post by: Jaltr on Mon, 27 April 2020, 13:01:15
I was tossing up with buying the 7V or not, so glad I had a quick check here to see if there was any other 75% options coming out! This looks incredible, hopefully it all works and we get the GB soon!This GB will be raffled and would cost a lot more than the 7v.
Sent from my SM-J415G using Tapatalk
Post by: roznalos on Mon, 27 April 2020, 13:44:18
I was tossing up with buying the 7V or not, so glad I had a quick check here to see if there was any other 75% options coming out! This looks incredible, hopefully it all works and we get the GB soon!This GB will be raffled and would cost a lot more than the 7v.
Sent from my SM-J415G using Tapatalk
What do you mean raffled?
Post by: MajorKoos on Mon, 27 April 2020, 13:49:28
I was tossing up with buying the 7V or not, so glad I had a quick check here to see if there was any other 75% options coming out! This looks incredible, hopefully it all works and we get the GB soon!This GB will be raffled and would cost a lot more than the 7v.
Sent from my SM-J415G using Tapatalk
What do you mean raffled?
Everyone who's interested puts their name in a hat (figuratively speaking) and the "winners" get sent an invoice.
Many months later their keyboards arrive in the mail.
Post by: heartbreak on Tue, 28 April 2020, 05:10:44
Post by: konstantin on Tue, 28 April 2020, 06:43:16
I will definitely watch this very closely! (hopefully it won't be a raffle. RNG gods doesn't like me that much)
It's pretty much been confirmed by the runner on several occasions that it's going to be a raffle, so unless something major changes, I wouldn't get my hopes up for a FCFS.
Post by: alper_maestro on Tue, 28 April 2020, 06:57:16
I will definitely watch this very closely! (hopefully it won't be a raffle. RNG gods doesn't like me that much)
No GB, it's a raffle
Post by: Glueeater on Wed, 29 April 2020, 14:10:49
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Sat, 02 May 2020, 01:44:03
(https://i.imgur.com/w9Ceni8.jpg)
First off, I would like to apologize for the delay in posting this writeup. When I received the prototype three weeks ago, I quickly assembled the board and started playing around with it, excited to collect all of my thoughts and to share them with you. However, as I began writing about the issues with my prototype, I couldn't help but open Fusion to try to fix them. As one weekend turned into one week, I grew self-conscious about making this post without proposing the very fixes I was working on. One week turned into two as I took my midterms and had to turn my attention away from the Evolv and onto school. This break was a blessing in disguise: upon returning to the board model, I realized the fixes I was making were hacks to get around fundamental design issues of the board, so I ripped off the band-aid and redesigned the entire thing from the ground up. However, before I talk about the redesign, I must share my thoughts about the original prototype with all of you.
(https://i.imgur.com/0IGdvbu.jpg)
Let's start with the big one: the bottom of the board. I love it; I couldn't have been happier with how it came out; nevertheless, there is room for improvement. First is the side angle of the board, as seen in this photo:
(https://i.imgur.com/xEXVykh.jpg)
Despite being the visual focal point of the board, a user of the Evolv cannot easily see the generative design of the bottom as the tendrils 'hide' underneath the top case of the keyboard, almost defeating the purpose of the design.
Aesthetics aside, most of my qualms with the bottom came with the manufacturing process. Not only is metal 3d printing exceedingly expensive (as in, I don't think I reasonably could've made the <$1000 mark if I had gone for this manufacturing solution), but I was also quite disappointed with the quality of the print. The images below demonstrate what I mean:
(https://i.imgur.com/5u6FiIX.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ML9CV91.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8eoyqyG.jpg)
As can be seen in the red circles in the second image, the inside of the printed part shows clear printing defects. Despite the coating (mostly) covering those issues on the outside (look at the bottom of the left slot to see an easily visible defect), a board at this price point should be perfect inside and out. Furthermore, while the manufacturing tolerances I designed around were sufficient for making the parts fit into each other, I was still extremely disappointed by them, with straight lines in CAD being wobbly messes in person. Finally, and I can't quite put my finger on it, but AlSi10Mg sounds odd, seemingly amplifying structure born sound when typing, making the board a pingy mess (more on this when I talk about the integrated plate). Overall, the direction of the bottom was perfect, but it needed some minor revisions to be near the standards I'm looking for in this project.
Next comes the integrated plate, and note, the plate was not generated for this revision of the prototype: it sucked. The big issue with integrated plates, as many of you know, is they are incapable of dissipating the structure born noise caused by pressing a switch. Check out my very scientific diagram below comparing noise propagation through a case with an integrated plate vs. one with a full isolation gasket:
(https://i.imgur.com/c27gSi8.png)
Every time you bottom out a switch, you cause the plate to vibrate at a certain frequency. When you integrate a plate directly into a case, nothing prevents those vibrations from propagating through the rest of the case and turning your keyboard into a resonator. However, when a gasket material is added between the plate and the case, it acts as a vibration dampener, preventing the propagation of structure born noise. With the Evolv, this was a particular issue, as these vibrations cause the 3d printed part to resonate, turning it into a pingy nightmare.
Finally, I personally found the Evolv's outer bezels to be too thin, evoking the look of a Tofu instead of a premium board.
(https://i.imgur.com/jhRxGxq.jpg)
So, what am I doing to fix these issues?
1: The Issue: The generative bottom is not visible enough from the side. The Fix: A complete redesign of the bottom, pushing the tendrils right to the edge of the board.
(https://i.imgur.com/EFmwtPp.png)
2: The Issue: Cost and Quality of 3d printing the bottom. The Fix: Investing into molds for casting the base, lowering per unit production cost by a factor of 5.
3: The Issue: Structureborn noise propagation with an integrated plate. The Fix: A full isolation gasket inspired by boards like the J-01 and Kepler.
(https://i.imgur.com/orl7vP3.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Fm3OhHk.jpg)
4: The Issue: Thin top bezels. The Fix: Thicker top bezels, which as a bonus, accommodate the new mounting solution.
5: The Issue: Lack of plate layout options. The Fix: Separate plate with fixed layout options for ISO and ANSI.
The Evolv has truly evolved, and I want to thank all of you for your patience as I've worked through this redesign. Main OP will be updated with the new board design shortly, and following that, I will open a new IC poll with some questions I have for you, the community.
- Nathan <3
Post by: Rew23 on Sat, 02 May 2020, 02:14:16
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Sat, 02 May 2020, 03:54:44
Post by: dom on Sat, 02 May 2020, 06:58:53
Beautiful, congrats for thinking smart and making those changes! RESPECT! :thumb:
Post by: Jaltr on Sat, 02 May 2020, 07:01:02
Very nice write up and hope to see more updates!
Sent from my SM-J415G using Tapatalk
Post by: Solotov on Sat, 02 May 2020, 07:53:34
Post by: Nostril on Sat, 02 May 2020, 13:46:41
Regarding the bottom case now being produced via casting rather than 3d printing - do you think you will also consider running a larger group buy than initially discussed as a result of this change? This certainly seems like the right direction in terms of both accessibility and quality, and will pay off especially with a larger order. I'd like to get my hands on this board and I'm hoping it's not going to be as hard to get as it initially sounded.
EDIT: Also a follow-up question - will the bottom base possibly be available in new materials besides aluminum along with this process change? I'd imagine brass will be nice if you're still sticking to the color scheme.
Post by: switchnollie on Sat, 02 May 2020, 13:48:17
Post by: OmniSzron on Sat, 02 May 2020, 13:57:04
I'm ecstatic with the changes. This board instantly went from "maybe if I have the cash" status, to "I gotta get one". Additionally, now that the base will be cast, does that mean an increase of the GB limit? Or maybe even an unlimited GB? I mean you have to spread out the cost of the molds, right? Right? :D
Post by: L8T on Sat, 02 May 2020, 13:57:11
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Sat, 02 May 2020, 14:19:00
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/kMEdZ83.jpg)
I'm ecstatic with the changes. This board instantly went from "maybe if I have the cash" status, to "I gotta get one". Additionally, now that the base will be cast, does that mean an increase of the GB limit? Or maybe even an unlimited GB? I mean you have to spread out the cost of the molds, right? Right? :D
Interesting write-up! It was a thoughtful read and it looks like these changes are all for the better.
Regarding the bottom case now being produced via casting rather than 3d printing - do you think you will also consider running a larger group buy than initially discussed as a result of this change? This certainly seems like the right direction in terms of both accessibility and quality, and will pay off especially with a larger order. I'd like to get my hands on this board and I'm hoping it's not going to be as hard to get as it initially sounded.
EDIT: Also a follow-up question - will the bottom base possibly be available in new materials besides aluminum along with this process change? I'd imagine brass will be nice if you're still sticking to the color scheme.
Unlimited still isn't going to happen, but the run size will likely increase to make the most of the molds.
Post by: DERBS on Sat, 02 May 2020, 15:13:54
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Sat, 02 May 2020, 15:33:01
You say the keeping the 1.5 right shift is to keep the right mods aligned with the arrows but the column to the right of it isn't aligned to anything kinda defeating the purpose, the right arrow as well is on its own little world. Above all the support for that specific key isn't really there.
Sure, but by using the 1.5 shift I can maintain a consistent bezel between the blocked arrows and the 4-key right column. (You could of course have a 3 key column with a .25u bezel between mods and the column, buy then the top arrow woul exist on an awkward island). If the .25u bezel wasn't there between then the knob wouldn't visually align in the top right of the board as one of the bezels would be larger than the other. Yes, the 1.5u shift is a compromise, but it's one I'm willing to make since I'm going to support the key with all of my future sets, and of course, you can always just put a control there.
Post by: drevan on Sat, 02 May 2020, 15:45:17
Post by: kiwikang on Sat, 02 May 2020, 17:01:43
Post by: Romutulus on Sat, 02 May 2020, 19:51:28
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Sat, 02 May 2020, 20:03:58
Post by: Mooze_naps on Sat, 02 May 2020, 20:13:29
Post by: dom on Sat, 02 May 2020, 20:33:05
... little surprise on page 2
YES Sir! :thumb:
Post by: DuellM on Sat, 02 May 2020, 20:40:43
or a PC Evolv with GMK Botanical on it or Oooh a white Evolv with GMK Deep Navy :eek:
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Sat, 02 May 2020, 21:14:33
This Looks Awesome!! I would love to see a render of a dark purple Evolv with GMK Bingsu
or a PC Evolv with GMK Botanical on it or Oooh a white Evolv with GMK Deep Navy :eek:
Yep, I will start working on additional keyset renders soon!
Post by: twistitup on Sat, 02 May 2020, 21:39:17
Post by: Void225 on Sat, 02 May 2020, 22:23:23
On a layout not, 3 1u keys right of the space (ALT, FN, CTRL) are more practical than 2 1.5u keys, as this provides an excellent spot to put FN.
Post by: Shadohhh on Sat, 02 May 2020, 23:03:33
Sounds like you have a vision for your perfect keyboard. Keep up the good work, and don't compromise for others sake.
Post by: Zeelobby on Sat, 02 May 2020, 23:11:47
You may feel that hotswap is low quality. I do not. I consider hotswap a feature, not a detriment, and the lack of it is a negative strike on any proposed board in my opinion.I mean normally hotswap is low quality because it limits the possible layouts on a pcb. Might not be the case here, but that's why. It's def not a negative strike for any board that wants to offer multiple layouts.
On a layout not, 3 1u keys right of the space (ALT, FN, CTRL) are more practical than 2 1.5u keys, as this provides an excellent spot to put FN.
Post by: pixls on Sat, 02 May 2020, 23:21:09
Another thought is that this layout with the joystick encoder is exactly what I, and many others, want, if you could offer the same layout but in a less premium package (simpler machined or injection molded base) after this first one is done. Have your halo tier typing experience focused model, and a more accessible hobbyist model. Though I understand if that takes away from your whole concept here.
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Sat, 02 May 2020, 23:22:28
You may feel that hotswap is low quality. I do not. I consider hotswap a feature, not a detriment, and the lack of it is a negative strike on any proposed board in my opinion.I mean normally hotswap is low quality because it limits the possible layouts on a pcb. Might not be the case here, but that's why. It's def not a negative strike for any board that wants to offer multiple layouts.
On a layout not, 3 1u keys right of the space (ALT, FN, CTRL) are more practical than 2 1.5u keys, as this provides an excellent spot to put FN.
On the money here, now that Evolv offers multiple layouts, hotswap will not be an option unless there is huge support for a fixed ANSI version of the PCB with hotswap
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Sat, 02 May 2020, 23:26:25
TL;DR if you don't want to read through it:
Because of the clear edition, I will be adding RGB underglow to the PCB, possibly top LEDs but that's TBD.
Hotswap: Due to the PCB supporting multiple layouts, this is unfortunately not possible, again, maybe if I get a large amount of support for a fixed ANSI version of the PCB, but likely not.
Generative Plate write-up: Removed references to the integrated plate from v1
Post by: KingsofLeon on Sat, 02 May 2020, 23:45:36
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Sun, 03 May 2020, 00:02:07
Another thought is that this layout with the joystick encoder is exactly what I, and many others, want, if you could offer the same layout but in a less premium package (simpler machined or injection molded base) after this first one is done. Have your halo tier typing experience focused model, and a more accessible hobbyist model. Though I understand if that takes away from your whole concept here.
I have plans for exactly this, but it won't be until after the Evolv GB completes
Post by: HighOnBuffs on Sun, 03 May 2020, 00:04:24
Its kind of a must for me.
Post by: bakuretsu on Sun, 03 May 2020, 00:10:02
Post by: Inquisitive on Sun, 03 May 2020, 02:41:28
Post by: AppleLe4f on Sun, 03 May 2020, 03:25:37
Post by: hottrout on Sun, 03 May 2020, 04:09:22
Post by: sendpie on Sun, 03 May 2020, 04:42:50
Post by: holer on Sun, 03 May 2020, 06:17:12
Post by: eniigma on Sun, 03 May 2020, 09:48:35
Post by: luxus on Sun, 03 May 2020, 10:03:20
Post by: walie on Sun, 03 May 2020, 10:16:07
Post by: bakuretsu on Sun, 03 May 2020, 11:38:45
No hotswap please, it brings more trouble than its worth. Don't let the crying newbs force you to compromise.
Seems to me you're the one crying about something that won't even affect you. Just buy the regular PCB and let people who want a hotswap PCB get one if it ends up being available.
Post by: w3djyt on Sun, 03 May 2020, 12:49:22
Post by: drevan on Sun, 03 May 2020, 12:52:15
Post by: pixls on Sun, 03 May 2020, 16:01:08
sick! I look forward to it! but still glad to see you pushing on with the high concept here.Another thought is that this layout with the joystick encoder is exactly what I, and many others, want, if you could offer the same layout but in a less premium package (simpler machined or injection molded base) after this first one is done. Have your halo tier typing experience focused model, and a more accessible hobbyist model. Though I understand if that takes away from your whole concept here.
I have plans for exactly this, but it won't be until after the Evolv GB completes
Post by: jooobe on Sun, 03 May 2020, 18:40:51
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Mon, 04 May 2020, 01:35:53
mmmm i'm gonna put ursa on this bad boy
It's a good thing Ursa looks fantastic on an E-White Evolv!
(https://i.imgur.com/TvrSh3h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/kyH5OTN.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/5VAwCnM.png)
Post by: dom on Mon, 04 May 2020, 01:52:54
Post by: L8T on Mon, 04 May 2020, 04:11:47
Post by: Motte on Mon, 04 May 2020, 13:36:30
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Mon, 04 May 2020, 14:17:31
Since ISO is now an option, I'm very interested!
I can't believe I was ready to release a board that I couldn't put the Ursa Paddington novelty on lol. Def glad to be able to include ISO users in the redesign.
Post by: Vadurr on Mon, 04 May 2020, 17:12:37
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Mon, 04 May 2020, 18:54:50
Hot damn. This board isn't particularly my cup of tea, but after reading thru how much work OP has done, its definitely peaked my interests!
<3
Post by: abrokencondom on Tue, 05 May 2020, 00:04:23
Another thought is that this layout with the joystick encoder is exactly what I, and many others, want, if you could offer the same layout but in a less premium package (simpler machined or injection molded base) after this first one is done. Have your halo tier typing experience focused model, and a more accessible hobbyist model. Though I understand if that takes away from your whole concept here.
I have plans for exactly this, but it won't be until after the Evolv GB completes
Ah I really appreciate this approach to also eventually have a more financially accessible model one day down the line.
As someone who hasn't yet completely discerned their switch preferences (and still experimenting), ansi hotswap is my current preference, although I understand the limitations that it comes with.
As someone with an eye on the 7v, and Satisfaction75 as well, my wallet is going to hurt from my quest of 75% endgame...
Post by: chicagopianotuner on Tue, 05 May 2020, 15:41:23
Also chiming in to say - I think the current production model is a bit too pricey for my wallet, but a scaled back version with a simpler base is hugely appealing to me (hotswap or no). I'll be the first on the list for that :)Another thought is that this layout with the joystick encoder is exactly what I, and many others, want, if you could offer the same layout but in a less premium package (simpler machined or injection molded base) after this first one is done. Have your halo tier typing experience focused model, and a more accessible hobbyist model. Though I understand if that takes away from your whole concept here.
I have plans for exactly this, but it won't be until after the Evolv GB completes
Post by: FireLock on Wed, 06 May 2020, 09:34:26
Skickat från min SM-G960F via Tapatalk
Post by: Wamuu on Wed, 06 May 2020, 17:04:45
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Wed, 06 May 2020, 17:26:48
(https://i.imgur.com/IO3K8Wn.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/xf8849h.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/hG0tU1I.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/GxeWoaR.png)
Post by: doooostin on Wed, 06 May 2020, 17:41:10
I've heard all of you loud and clear! You liked the more organic bottom of the first iteration compared to the bottom of this one, so I've spent some time reworking the base to try and return to the original aesthetic. Please do let me know what you guys think!Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/IO3K8Wn.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/xf8849h.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/hG0tU1I.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/GxeWoaR.png)
To iterate the thought about making it more organic looking, I think that looks great as a base and structurally sound, but I was hoping for more randomness? Maybe it's possible to add a few random strands just for aesthetics? That's just my uneducated idea (pretty sure that would bump machining costs). Hyped for this board.
*Edit something I thought of, most of those strands are going in one directional axis, maybe some horizontal ones would help make it look more organic
Post by: Wamuu on Wed, 06 May 2020, 17:47:35
I've heard all of you loud and clear! You liked the more organic bottom of the first iteration compared to the bottom of this one, so I've spent some time reworking the base to try and return to the original aesthetic. Please do let me know what you guys think!Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/IO3K8Wn.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/xf8849h.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/hG0tU1I.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/GxeWoaR.png)
To iterate the thought about making it more organic looking, I think that looks great as a base and structurally sound, but I was hoping for more randomness? Maybe it's possible to add a few random strands just for aesthetics? That's just my uneducated idea (pretty sure that would bump machining costs). Hyped for this board.
*Edit something I thought of, most of those strands are going in one directional axis, maybe some horizontal ones would help make it look more organic
AGREED with what this user has said! The update you made is a big improvement but I completely agree we want MORE
I really like what you've done with this update so far but I think you can lean in a lot more with this aesthetic. Don't hold back here, you really got something potentially special with the design of this board. I really want you to try and push this design further.
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Wed, 06 May 2020, 17:49:03
I've heard all of you loud and clear! You liked the more organic bottom of the first iteration compared to the bottom of this one, so I've spent some time reworking the base to try and return to the original aesthetic. Please do let me know what you guys think!Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/IO3K8Wn.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/xf8849h.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/hG0tU1I.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/GxeWoaR.png)
To iterate the thought about making it more organic looking, I think that looks great as a base and structurally sound, but I was hoping for more randomness? Maybe it's possible to add a few random strands just for aesthetics? That's just my uneducated idea (pretty sure that would bump machining costs). Hyped for this board.
*Edit something I thought of, most of those strands are going in one directional axis, maybe some horizontal ones would help make it look more organic
So the bottom is generated algorithmically, I don't model it by hand. While I do have some control over how it looks, I do need to work within the constraints of both the algorithm and the manufacturing process.
Post by: mta on Wed, 06 May 2020, 17:51:08
Post by: Wamuu on Wed, 06 May 2020, 19:13:20
I've heard all of you loud and clear! You liked the more organic bottom of the first iteration compared to the bottom of this one, so I've spent some time reworking the base to try and return to the original aesthetic. Please do let me know what you guys think!Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/IO3K8Wn.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/xf8849h.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/hG0tU1I.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/GxeWoaR.png)
To iterate the thought about making it more organic looking, I think that looks great as a base and structurally sound, but I was hoping for more randomness? Maybe it's possible to add a few random strands just for aesthetics? That's just my uneducated idea (pretty sure that would bump machining costs). Hyped for this board.
*Edit something I thought of, most of those strands are going in one directional axis, maybe some horizontal ones would help make it look more organic
So the bottom is generated algorithmically, I don't model it by hand. While I do have some control over how it looks, I do need to work within the constraints of both the algorithm and the manufacturing process.
Aah I see. Well if there is any way to push the algorithm to its limits while remaining withing the manufacturing constraints I'd HAVE to see that. I totally disagree that that if there were more tendrils or the branch patterns were more complex it would be too much or make it look too cluttered. Especially considering this is on the BOTTOM of the board. If you would be so kind to share what that would look like I think it would be greatly appreciated by all of us interested. It might actually turn out to be the best version!
Post by: steezkeez on Wed, 06 May 2020, 20:28:40
hotswap =/= premium
learn to solder
Post by: FoxFire007 on Wed, 06 May 2020, 21:05:25
I've heard all of you loud and clear! You liked the more organic bottom of the first iteration compared to the bottom of this one, so I've spent some time reworking the base to try and return to the original aesthetic. Please do let me know what you guys think!Dude this board is the reason I only brought one 7v and not two. Please, please let this GB start soon so you can take my money. I LOVE the design. I would even get into a FE edition if there's one.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/IO3K8Wn.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/xf8849h.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/hG0tU1I.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/GxeWoaR.png)
Have you confirmed the addition of a white + gold? Also could there be an option to purchase and extra bottom?
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Wed, 06 May 2020, 21:10:47
Post by: Wamuu on Wed, 06 May 2020, 22:13:07
Post by: Kirihuna on Wed, 06 May 2020, 22:48:07
I still haven't decide on what kind of switch I like to use and sometimes I just feel like changing it up, having to desolder and resolder adds wear and tear apparently, not something I want to risk.
Post by: L8T on Thu, 07 May 2020, 00:35:43
Would love a hot swap possibility, even if it's a premium add on or a separate purchase.
I still haven't decide on what kind of switch I like to use and sometimes I just feel like changing it up, having to desolder and resolder adds wear and tear apparently, not something I want to risk.
Just use millmax then, will be cheaper for you and easier for the designer.
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Thu, 07 May 2020, 01:11:15
Post by: Wamuu on Thu, 07 May 2020, 02:05:40
A good thing to remember about hotswap on the Evolv, or any board with a knob for that matter, is that you will still need to solder in the knob as there are no hotswap sockets for knobs.
Would love a hot swap possibility, even if it's a premium add on or a separate purchase.
I still haven't decide on what kind of switch I like to use and sometimes I just feel like changing it up, having to desolder and resolder adds wear and tear apparently, not something I want to risk.
Just use millmax then, will be cheaper for you and easier for the designer.
What's millmax?
Also, even though the rotary knob would need to be soldered even if there was a hotswap PCB I would still be fine with that. The knob isn't something that I'd ever have reason to what to change barring it breaks or something. So even though hotswap would still require soldering for the knob I'd still prefer it.
Post by: zaneexpert on Thu, 07 May 2020, 03:43:15
Post by: alper_maestro on Thu, 07 May 2020, 04:43:29
Post by: kenneth00_22 on Thu, 07 May 2020, 05:05:31
Post by: Cobalt on Thu, 07 May 2020, 08:54:02
Post by: ppnp253 on Thu, 07 May 2020, 11:04:04
Post by: FireLock on Thu, 07 May 2020, 12:42:57
Skickat från min SM-G960F via Tapatalk
Post by: nuno99costa on Thu, 07 May 2020, 12:59:20
Sent from my GM1910 using Tapatalk
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Thu, 07 May 2020, 13:29:26
I don't know if this has been answered yet, but do you have a estimate/range for pricing after these new changes? I initial didn't really consider this board do to it's price estimate, but if the changes managed to significantly change the cost it might be accessible to me and other people who we're initial turned of by the estimated price.
Sent from my GM1910 using Tapatalk
It will be cheaper compared to the first iteration, but I don't have anything that I'm ready (or prepared) to share at the moment.
Post by: Luciqueii on Thu, 07 May 2020, 16:05:35
Post by: dlavelle94 on Fri, 08 May 2020, 06:13:51
Post by: Cobalt on Fri, 08 May 2020, 13:54:56
Millmax sockets cost maybe $15-30 depending on what model you get. It adds maybe 15 more min to the soldering process. I much prefer having stepped caps and all the other layout options all on 1 pcb rather than driving up the price and QC time to buy separate fixed hotswap pcbs. I understand the convenience of hotswap and it has it's benefits, but soldering is not hard guys. Get millmax sockets if you want hotswap.
Would you be kind enough to show me where I can buy mill max sockets for $15-30 for a tkl? I would love to have lots of layout options as well but I find myself switching switches (heh) more often than layouts.
Post by: ab042896 on Fri, 08 May 2020, 14:18:04
Depending where your from: https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=0305-2-15-80-47-80-10-0%20Millmax sockets cost maybe $15-30 depending on what model you get. It adds maybe 15 more min to the soldering process. I much prefer having stepped caps and all the other layout options all on 1 pcb rather than driving up the price and QC time to buy separate fixed hotswap pcbs. I understand the convenience of hotswap and it has it's benefits, but soldering is not hard guys. Get millmax sockets if you want hotswap.
Would you be kind enough to show me where I can buy mill max sockets for $15-30 for a tkl? I would love to have lots of layout options as well but I find myself switching switches (heh) more often than layouts.
If you get 2 per switch and add some extras for multiple layout compatibility, so about 200 sockets, it'll be almost $30 for a TKL.
Post by: ppnp253 on Fri, 08 May 2020, 18:27:42
Depending where your from: https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=0305-2-15-80-47-80-10-0%20Millmax sockets cost maybe $15-30 depending on what model you get. It adds maybe 15 more min to the soldering process. I much prefer having stepped caps and all the other layout options all on 1 pcb rather than driving up the price and QC time to buy separate fixed hotswap pcbs. I understand the convenience of hotswap and it has it's benefits, but soldering is not hard guys. Get millmax sockets if you want hotswap.
Would you be kind enough to show me where I can buy mill max sockets for $15-30 for a tkl? I would love to have lots of layout options as well but I find myself switching switches (heh) more often than layouts.
If you get 2 per switch and add some extras for multiple layout compatibility, so about 200 sockets, it'll be almost $30 for a TKL.
^ Yup.
If you're in NA, u/tonsoffun49 does occasional gb's for millmax sockets. https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/fzjwkb/gb_millmax_sockets_0305_7305_24_pin_dip_socket/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/fzjwkb/gb_millmax_sockets_0305_7305_24_pin_dip_socket/)
Post by: Cobalt on Sat, 09 May 2020, 09:07:45
Depending where your from: https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=0305-2-15-80-47-80-10-0%20
If you get 2 per switch and add some extras for multiple layout compatibility, so about 200 sockets, it'll be almost $30 for a TKL.
[/quote]
The only caveat is that shipping to where I live would cost another 20$(Im form eastern Europe). Moreover Id have to buy a decent soldering station ( + solder) or pay someone to do it. With all these added costs Id rather buy another pcb. The soldering station might be a good investment in general but I dont plan on making/buying any keyboards for a long while after this one.
Post by: TibtibThePrincess on Sat, 09 May 2020, 09:46:17
Quote
Depending where your from: https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=0305-2-15-80-47-80-10-0%20
If you get 2 per switch and add some extras for multiple layout compatibility, so about 200 sockets, it'll be almost $30 for a TKL.
The only caveat is that shipping to where I live would cost another 20$(Im form eastern Europe). Moreover Id have to buy a decent soldering station ( + solder) or pay someone to do it. With all these added costs Id rather buy another pcb. The soldering station might be a good investment in general but I dont plan on making/buying any keyboards for a long while after this one.
If you are in Europe you can order them through https://mykeyboard.eu/catalogue/mill-max-7305-hotswap-receptacles-40-pack-for-20-switches_2097/ right now so the total price should be lower if you order it there.
Post by: Cobalt on Sat, 09 May 2020, 11:54:46
If you are in Europe you can order them through https://mykeyboard.eu/catalogue/mill-max-7305-hotswap-receptacles-40-pack-for-20-switches_2097/ right now so the total price should be lower if you order it there.
It's only ~5 euro cheaper but if I'll ever buy something from them I'll consider getting those sockets as well. Thanks!
Post by: AT on Thu, 14 May 2020, 06:24:05
Post by: GMK83 on Wed, 20 May 2020, 06:54:02
Post by: TibtibThePrincess on Wed, 20 May 2020, 10:47:42
Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk
Post by: Vidhur100 on Wed, 20 May 2020, 15:15:47
Post by: Wamuu on Wed, 20 May 2020, 18:33:58
Post by: perry4761 on Wed, 20 May 2020, 22:15:44
I was not planning on joining anything else for at least a year, but this project is so unique that I would join tomorrow if the GB opened then. Can't wait!
Post by: wing1098 on Wed, 20 May 2020, 22:20:38
Post by: Waateva on Thu, 21 May 2020, 13:07:30
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Thu, 21 May 2020, 13:44:55
Any plans for artisan knobs like the Rama knob for the Satisfaction 75?Show Image(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/ffe0d126852e65fa2087776311c22d8a.jpg)
Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk
Yes! More details as we get closer to launch!
I'd still like to see even more organic design. I still would like to see maybe branching that also goes laterally instead of just straight down the middle from the initial branch.
Me too, however, manufacturing the base is a complicated problem as it is. I've spent the last two weeks working and reworking the base with my manufacturer, and unfortunately, very organic geometry like that doesn't get made cheaply.
Is there an estimate for when the GB is?
Not yet
interested, how much it will be? :thumb:
TBD
Post by: hottrout on Fri, 22 May 2020, 05:14:09
Post by: Alpha1 on Tue, 26 May 2020, 20:41:35
Another thought is that this layout with the joystick encoder is exactly what I, and many others, want, if you could offer the same layout but in a less premium package (simpler machined or injection molded base) after this first one is done. Have your halo tier typing experience focused model, and a more accessible hobbyist model. Though I understand if that takes away from your whole concept here.
I have plans for exactly this, but it won't be until after the Evolv GB completes
I was reading through the comments on this interest check and saw this. Would you be able to expand upon this idea? I really love the design but I'm not sure it will be in my budget, even with the redesign.
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Tue, 26 May 2020, 22:43:23
Another thought is that this layout with the joystick encoder is exactly what I, and many others, want, if you could offer the same layout but in a less premium package (simpler machined or injection molded base) after this first one is done. Have your halo tier typing experience focused model, and a more accessible hobbyist model. Though I understand if that takes away from your whole concept here.
I have plans for exactly this, but it won't be until after the Evolv GB completes
I was reading through the comments on this interest check and saw this. Would you be able to expand upon this idea? I really love the design but I'm not sure it will be in my budget, even with the redesign.
Yep! After the Evolv is complete I plan on doing a more financially accessible 65% version.
Post by: CrazyAssMonkey on Tue, 26 May 2020, 22:46:21
Another thought is that this layout with the joystick encoder is exactly what I, and many others, want, if you could offer the same layout but in a less premium package (simpler machined or injection molded base) after this first one is done. Have your halo tier typing experience focused model, and a more accessible hobbyist model. Though I understand if that takes away from your whole concept here.
I have plans for exactly this, but it won't be until after the Evolv GB completes
I was reading through the comments on this interest check and saw this. Would you be able to expand upon this idea? I really love the design but I'm not sure it will be in my budget, even with the redesign.
Yep! After the Evolv is complete I plan on doing a more financially accessible 65% version.
Cough 60%/45% cough :-X
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Tue, 26 May 2020, 22:55:58
Another thought is that this layout with the joystick encoder is exactly what I, and many others, want, if you could offer the same layout but in a less premium package (simpler machined or injection molded base) after this first one is done. Have your halo tier typing experience focused model, and a more accessible hobbyist model. Though I understand if that takes away from your whole concept here.
I have plans for exactly this, but it won't be until after the Evolv GB completes
I was reading through the comments on this interest check and saw this. Would you be able to expand upon this idea? I really love the design but I'm not sure it will be in my budget, even with the redesign.
Yep! After the Evolv is complete I plan on doing a more financially accessible 65% version.
Cough 60%/45% cough :-X
If only I liked either of those layouts lol.
Maybe one day :p
Post by: CrazyAssMonkey on Tue, 26 May 2020, 22:58:43
Another thought is that this layout with the joystick encoder is exactly what I, and many others, want, if you could offer the same layout but in a less premium package (simpler machined or injection molded base) after this first one is done. Have your halo tier typing experience focused model, and a more accessible hobbyist model. Though I understand if that takes away from your whole concept here.
I have plans for exactly this, but it won't be until after the Evolv GB completes
I was reading through the comments on this interest check and saw this. Would you be able to expand upon this idea? I really love the design but I'm not sure it will be in my budget, even with the redesign.
Yep! After the Evolv is complete I plan on doing a more financially accessible 65% version.
Cough 60%/45% cough :-X
If only I liked either of those layouts lol.
Maybe one day :p
:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
Post by: dlavelle94 on Wed, 27 May 2020, 02:27:07
Post by: chickenballs on Sun, 31 May 2020, 10:14:19
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Post by: Leche on Sun, 31 May 2020, 10:20:26
What is that keycap set in the first renders (the blue and pink/orange on the black top) it looks amazing
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
PBT Amalfi. It's in IC currently and also being ran by Nathan
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Sun, 31 May 2020, 12:03:42
What is that keycap set in the first renders (the blue and pink/orange on the black top) it looks amazing
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
PBT Amalfi. It's in IC currently and also being ran by Nathan
Shameless self shill: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=106530.0
Post by: Bokuwahero on Mon, 01 June 2020, 15:07:32
Post by: frostfiree on Mon, 01 June 2020, 16:16:37
Is there going to be a limit on this or is it open GB?
With the complexity of the design, I sure hope there is a limit. QC would be a living hell otherwise.
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Mon, 01 June 2020, 16:40:28
Is there going to be a limit on this or is it open GB?
With the complexity of the design, I sure hope there is a limit. QC would be a living hell otherwise.
This is correct, GB will be limited, with spots be allocated through a raffle
Post by: FlitzDeelman on Tue, 02 June 2020, 04:12:44
Could you let me know the price for v1, so I can tell my wallet what the upper limit (or even just ballpark figure) will be?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: zandegran on Tue, 02 June 2020, 05:39:10
Fingers crossedIs there going to be a limit on this or is it open GB?
With the complexity of the design, I sure hope there is a limit. QC would be a living hell otherwise.
This is correct, GB will be limited, with spots be allocated through a raffle
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: stuey138 on Tue, 02 June 2020, 05:47:21
This looks awesome. You say v2 will (hopefully) be cheaper than v1 - I can’t find much info online about v1.For V1, the only price was that it would be under 1000 dollars
Could you let me know the price for v1, so I can tell my wallet what the upper limit (or even just ballpark figure) will be?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: Zeelobby on Tue, 02 June 2020, 07:22:46
And clearly it was not. HahaThis looks awesome. You say v2 will (hopefully) be cheaper than v1 - I can’t find much info online about v1.For V1, the only price was that it would be under 1000 dollars
Could you let me know the price for v1, so I can tell my wallet what the upper limit (or even just ballpark figure) will be?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Post by: FlitzDeelman on Tue, 02 June 2020, 07:27:31
Ouch. I’ll still keep an eye on this, but I might then rather set my heart on something more conventional, like a Duck or the upcoming Rama M65-B, however long that will take.And clearly it was not. HahaThis looks awesome. You say v2 will (hopefully) be cheaper than v1 - I can’t find much info online about v1.For V1, the only price was that it would be under 1000 dollars
Could you let me know the price for v1, so I can tell my wallet what the upper limit (or even just ballpark figure) will be?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Tue, 02 June 2020, 12:55:05
Ouch. I’ll still keep an eye on this, but I might then rather set my heart on something more conventional, like a Duck or the upcoming Rama M65-B, however long that will take.And clearly it was not. HahaThis looks awesome. You say v2 will (hopefully) be cheaper than v1 - I can’t find much info online about v1.For V1, the only price was that it would be under 1000 dollars
Could you let me know the price for v1, so I can tell my wallet what the upper limit (or even just ballpark figure) will be?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
V1 was never released, which is why so little info is available on it. In short, I was unhappy with a number of aspects on the prototype, so I ended up redesigning the board to not only bring down cost, but also to make the entire Evolv experience better.
Post by: FlitzDeelman on Tue, 02 June 2020, 12:59:13
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: syke on Wed, 03 June 2020, 00:43:05
the bottom looks really organic, like the roots of a tree. but the top half looks structured and industrial.
I feel if the bottom half were to be more symmetrical and "grill" like, the entire package would be better matched. just my opinion.
Post by: bow3i on Wed, 03 June 2020, 12:06:42
Post by: Sunhwan Jeong on Wed, 03 June 2020, 13:01:47
Post by: Wamuu on Thu, 04 June 2020, 19:14:05
Personally, I think that the rounded corners of the top will help feel more organic and living thing. This is because creatures do not have angles.Ooo good point!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: FreshCake on Wed, 10 June 2020, 09:51:31
But with the effort you have put into this project, only 50 units of this keyboard would be a disappointment to many people.
Ps. the color in Mito's website is INSANE!
Post by: Butterbeer on Thu, 11 June 2020, 02:14:14
Personally, I think that the rounded corners of the top will help feel more organic and living thing. This is because creatures do not have angles.Ooo good point!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Let's not carried away with the organic motif or else we might end up with a wooden keyboard design.
The contrast between the top and bottom halves gives it a Neofuturist architectural look.
Post by: DonaldPShimoda on Thu, 11 June 2020, 03:22:29
This is a very promising keyboard indeed!
But with the effort you have put into this project, only 50 units of this keyboard would be a disappointment to many people.
Ps. the color in Mito's website is INSANE!
I don't think the 50 units is a problem... so long as I get one of them. ;)
(More would definitely be appreciated!)
Post by: marshskitow on Thu, 11 June 2020, 04:48:36
Whatever it's gonna be to expensive for me but this is the best design keyboard i've ever seen so far. Congratulation guys.
Post by: prizeS on Thu, 11 June 2020, 08:15:36
See a lot a people talking about the price and i was also interested to know but i think it's gonna be more than 500 right ? even more than 600 i guess.
Whatever it's gonna be to expensive for me but this is the best design keyboard i've ever seen so far. Congratulation guys.
i wouldn't be surprised if this was around $1000.
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Thu, 11 June 2020, 16:51:10
See a lot a people talking about the price and i was also interested to know but i think it's gonna be more than 500 right ? even more than 600 i guess.
Whatever it's gonna be to expensive for me but this is the best design keyboard i've ever seen so far. Congratulation guys.
i wouldn't be surprised if this was around $1000.
I'm targeting around $800 for r2, but no promises on that
the more i look at the prototypes, i feel there is a slight mismatch between the top and bottom half.
the bottom looks really organic, like the roots of a tree. but the top half looks structured and industrial.
I feel if the bottom half were to be more symmetrical and "grill" like, the entire package would be better matched. just my opinion.
Personally, I think that the rounded corners of the top will help feel more organic and living thing. This is because creatures do not have angles.Ooo good point!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Let's not carried away with the organic motif or else we might end up with a wooden keyboard design.
The contrast between the top and bottom halves gives it a Neofuturist architectural look.
This is done very much on purpose, with the contrast having been accentuated by the redesign. Evolv is not meant to hold a single motif but to be something uniquely different. From the top, it's own thing, and from the bottom, it's another. I personally love the stark contrast between the two, as it embodies the battle between form and function that happens inside the board. Not sure it neo-futurist is the right label for it, but I'll take it :p
Post by: baobaozi on Thu, 11 June 2020, 20:59:44
Post by: brehski on Sun, 14 June 2020, 03:04:23
Post by: TibtibThePrincess on Sun, 14 June 2020, 04:17:54
Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk
Post by: Butterbeer on Sun, 14 June 2020, 15:00:11
KK75 (http://www.velocifiretech.com/product/kk75-keyboard-kit/) Groupbuy Open until End of June
KY-01 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=106700.0) Interest Check Phase Prototype Ordered
Post by: codywanks on Sun, 14 June 2020, 15:14:31
I don't want to hijack this thread, but here are two budget friendly options since it has been asked many times and people are interested in the layout.
KK75 (http://www.velocifiretech.com/product/kk75-keyboard-kit/) Groupbuy Open until End of June
KY-01 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=106700.0) Interest Check Phase Prototype Ordered
Do you know of any other options with a rotary knob?
I could possibly stomach the >$800 pricetag but I don't fancy my chances in a raffle
Post by: juusu on Sun, 14 June 2020, 23:58:12
KK75 (http://www.velocifiretech.com/product/kk75-keyboard-kit/) Groupbuy Open until End of JuneThese are not quite the same layout, as they don’t use the 1.5u right shift to get the perfectly aligned right column, which is IMO the main attraction of the Evolv’s layout.
KY-01 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=106700.0) Interest Check Phase Prototype Ordered
Also, no F13.
If the layout of those two boards works for you there’s also the forthcoming KBDfans Bella.
Post by: Vidhur100 on Mon, 15 June 2020, 22:19:16
Post by: brehski on Tue, 16 June 2020, 02:37:34
Does anyone know the estimated price range? I think you should prioritize cheaper packaging to reduce the overall price.
It'll be cheaper than the first revision.
Post by: Lenux on Tue, 16 June 2020, 03:06:00
Really waiting for prototypes and see how it will looks, good luck
Post by: konstantin on Tue, 16 June 2020, 03:10:16
These are not quite the same layout, as they don’t use the 1.5u right shift to get the perfectly aligned right column, which is IMO the main attraction of the Evolv’s layout.
Also, no F13.
Agreed. There are currently no other 75% keyboards that offers this exact layout. I hope to see more keyboards use it in the future.
Post by: Vidhur100 on Tue, 16 June 2020, 11:54:29
Does anyone know the estimated price range? I think you should prioritize cheaper packaging to reduce the overall price.
It'll be cheaper than the first revision.
What was the estimated price for the first revision?
Post by: Mooze_naps on Tue, 16 June 2020, 17:17:49
Under $1,000. No specific price was given.Does anyone know the estimated price range? I think you should prioritize cheaper packaging to reduce the overall price.
It'll be cheaper than the first revision.
What was the estimated price for the first revision?
Post by: SwitchKeys on Tue, 16 June 2020, 22:08:52
Does anyone know the estimated price range? I think you should prioritize cheaper packaging to reduce the overall price.
Agree. Nathan will you consider sending mine (if i win) like this?
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Tue, 16 June 2020, 22:19:31
Does anyone know the estimated price range? I think you should prioritize cheaper packaging to reduce the overall price.
Agree. Nathan will you consider sending mine (if i win) like this?
Unfortunately not, just worked out a deal with the Museum of London to ship every Evolv in this:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d4/f5/d8/d4f5d83a93bf992ba09e6002ef6d8f52.jpg)
Post by: grundlemere on Wed, 17 June 2020, 08:04:12
Does anyone know the estimated price range? I think you should prioritize cheaper packaging to reduce the overall price.
Agree. Nathan will you consider sending mine (if i win) like this?
Unfortunately not, just worked out a deal with the Museum of London to ship every Evolv in this:Show Image(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d4/f5/d8/d4f5d83a93bf992ba09e6002ef6d8f52.jpg)
Hmm needs more gilding, could we talk to House Faberge?
Post by: brehski on Wed, 17 June 2020, 20:54:17
Does anyone know the estimated price range? I think you should prioritize cheaper packaging to reduce the overall price.
Agree. Nathan will you consider sending mine (if i win) like this?
Unfortunately not, just worked out a deal with the Museum of London to ship every Evolv in this:Show Image(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d4/f5/d8/d4f5d83a93bf992ba09e6002ef6d8f52.jpg)
Here's account # 123415116161
and here's my routing # 23455555511123
Post by: Mekanist on Wed, 17 June 2020, 22:15:55
Post by: LolChocotaco on Wed, 17 June 2020, 22:52:43
Post by: Romutulus on Thu, 18 June 2020, 02:55:55
Post by: BlankeyGotCaps on Fri, 19 June 2020, 17:08:35
800 is pretty hefty, but I would need to be given the chance to pay for them. Any chance of increasing the production numbers? I don't really know how many people are out there for this, but I would assume getting in the 50 slots would be somewhat difficult (especially since I've yet to win a single raffle).
Just gotta hope that this is the raffle you finally win. I have terrible luck with raffles also... Gotta win one eventually! XD
Post by: Sslix on Fri, 19 June 2020, 21:26:39
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Fri, 19 June 2020, 22:21:56
wow :eek:
How's this for wow :p
(https://i.imgur.com/SOX71V8.jpg)
Pic from manu, will update the OP when the board is in my hands.
Post by: RedBananaBread on Fri, 19 June 2020, 22:58:39
Post by: kokugatsu on Fri, 19 June 2020, 23:11:53
Post by: PandamanPete on Sat, 20 June 2020, 00:37:42
wow :eek:
How's this for wow :pShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/SOX71V8.jpg)
Pic from manu, will update the OP when the board is in my hands.
Dang, that looks nice!!
Post by: Romutulus on Sat, 20 June 2020, 02:03:10
Post by: zandegran on Sat, 20 June 2020, 02:50:18
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Sat, 20 June 2020, 03:45:05
Hi, will there be a metal version?
Yeah, the GB version of the board will be metal.
Post by: zandegran on Sat, 20 June 2020, 03:46:07
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: KeycapPuller on Sat, 20 June 2020, 13:00:09
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Sat, 20 June 2020, 13:46:21
This looks so amazing! Any plans for a numpad?
Do you mean a standalone numpad? Not as of right now.
Post by: zoo on Sat, 20 June 2020, 16:29:55
Post by: grundlemere on Sat, 20 June 2020, 16:52:57
Post by: L8T on Sat, 20 June 2020, 16:57:45
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Sat, 20 June 2020, 18:12:05
Will PC also be an option along with alu? Im really liking the looks of the proto!
Unlikely, PC is great for protos because printing it is cheap compared to printing Alu or investing into molds. By doing a short run of printed PC boards, I can verify everything is perfect with the design before getting the molds built.
Post by: alphabirth on Sat, 20 June 2020, 18:15:15
Will PC also be an option along with alu? Im really liking the looks of the proto!
Unlikely, PC is great for protos because printing it is cheap compared to printing Alu or investing into molds. By doing a short run of printed PC boards, I can verify everything is perfect with the design before getting the molds built.
Man, that PC proto is 🔥! You should totally consider running that alongside the metal version, for real!
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Sat, 20 June 2020, 18:18:28
Will PC also be an option along with alu? Im really liking the looks of the proto!
Unlikely, PC is great for protos because printing it is cheap compared to printing Alu or investing into molds. By doing a short run of printed PC boards, I can verify everything is perfect with the design before getting the molds built.
Man, that PC proto is 🔥! You should totally consider running that alongside the metal version, for real!
Full PC boards will be exclusive to the protos. I may consider doing PC bottoms for the GB if I'm unsatisfied with the molded version once I get those protos.
Post by: Vidhur100 on Sat, 20 June 2020, 19:40:29
Post by: outlawdsx on Sun, 21 June 2020, 00:25:01
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Sun, 21 June 2020, 00:55:30
This keyboard made me log back in after a very, very long time. What is the best way to follow this and make sure I can enter the raffle when it finally happens?
This thread and my discord (linked in OP) are by far the best way to keep up with progress.
Post by: kancharlap3 on Mon, 22 June 2020, 13:04:12
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Mon, 22 June 2020, 13:50:14
is this going to come with a rgb pcb or just a regular pcb? also, where do you get mold for stuff like this from?
PCB will have RBG underglow. You make the molds for stuff like this.
Post by: Surefoot on Mon, 22 June 2020, 14:31:37
Post by: kancharlap3 on Mon, 22 June 2020, 14:47:50
also since this is a really expensive board, do you think that you would be able to include some keyboard foam
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Mon, 22 June 2020, 17:19:10
do you know how many of these are going to be made for the group buy? and on what website
also since this is a really expensive board, do you think that you would be able to include some keyboard foam
Quantity is TBA. i will be fulfilling the board myself. And the keyboard is designed to be used without foam.
Post by: kancharlap3 on Mon, 22 June 2020, 22:31:13
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Mon, 22 June 2020, 22:44:42
Post by: perry4761 on Fri, 26 June 2020, 17:27:58
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Fri, 26 June 2020, 18:53:27
Buddy I will enthusiastically trade my first born child with no hesitation for that PC board. I don't care what I have to do, I'll do it because I need it. What are your terms?
There may be an opportunity for a member of the public to get a proto Evolv. Stay tuned on my discord server for that.
Post by: sweepingbottle on Mon, 29 June 2020, 22:41:47
Post by: DonaldPShimoda on Mon, 29 June 2020, 22:44:25
What are the keycaps in the render in the 1st post? The matte finish makes them look similar to the GMK Modern Dolch 2
I believe that's Infinikey Amalfi, by the same designer. IC thread here. (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=106530.0)
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Mon, 29 June 2020, 23:00:09
What are the keycaps in the render in the 1st post? The matte finish makes them look similar to the GMK Modern Dolch 2
I believe that's Infinikey Amalfi, by the same designer. IC thread here. (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=106530.0)
This is the correct answer :thumb:
Post by: sagarsiddhpura on Thu, 02 July 2020, 14:08:50
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Thu, 02 July 2020, 14:59:58
Any updates on this?
The PC protos should be arriving to me very soon. A real update will follow once I build the board and test it out.
Post by: willphillipsjr on Thu, 02 July 2020, 15:58:22
(don't worry, I'm still hoping to get one. Just staying realistic. lol)
Post by: MechanicalNerd on Wed, 08 July 2020, 23:37:40
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Thu, 09 July 2020, 01:00:14
Could someone be kind enough to explain to me why not run a GB instead of a raffle? Seems like demand is pretty high for this... :eek:
The raffle is a GB, if you win the raffle, you get a spot in the group buy. The reasoning for this is because I'm just a one-person team, I can't feasibly QC 1000+ boards if I run something unlimited. As such, I'm artificially limiting the number of boards that will be produced to a much more manageable number for myself, and because I don't like FCFS, a raffle is the best way to allocate spots. This is no different from what Keycult do.
Post by: Nirelko on Thu, 09 July 2020, 15:08:34
BTW amazing board, big big fan.
Post by: ManiacMarc on Thu, 09 July 2020, 18:55:48
Post by: noorejji on Thu, 09 July 2020, 21:57:31
Post by: fruitofconfusion on Tue, 21 July 2020, 10:20:57
Post by: Leche on Tue, 21 July 2020, 10:25:48
Has the PC proto arrived yet? I'm really excited to see what you've been working on.
Yes, the best way to get updates is to join his Discord (Linked in the OP)
It looks stunning!
Post by: fruitofconfusion on Tue, 21 July 2020, 11:45:28
Has the PC proto arrived yet? I'm really excited to see what you've been working on.
Yes, the best way to get updates is to join his Discord (Linked in the OP)
It looks stunning!
Ah, thank you!
Post by: Madrai on Mon, 27 July 2020, 10:51:04
Post by: cloudtastrophe on Sun, 02 August 2020, 03:13:27
Post by: paperassgasket on Wed, 05 August 2020, 16:19:37
is there a new discord link? the one in the title is invalid
It seemed to work fine for me just now?
Post by: mozaic on Wed, 05 August 2020, 18:45:37
I'm very pleased to see that you are taking your time with the prototypes to get every last detail right, rather than rushing to GB stage.
Excited to see more updates in the future :thumb:
Post by: Bobatype on Sat, 08 August 2020, 02:17:22
On that point, I was looking at your keycap set PBT Amalfi, and was wondering if 1.5u right shift key is included in the base kit too?
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Sat, 08 August 2020, 02:35:54
I really like the decisions made about the layout. I wish more keycap sets will start to include a 1.5u right shift key though in the base kit!
On that point, I was looking at your keycap set PBT Amalfi, and was wondering if 1.5u right shift key is included in the base kit too?
The 1.5u shift for Amalfi is in the extension kit, not the base, but it is there!
Post by: cam on Sat, 08 August 2020, 02:47:11
Post by: dibstern on Sun, 09 August 2020, 21:56:43
Post by: mellowtempo on Mon, 10 August 2020, 16:04:33
Post by: paperassgasket on Mon, 10 August 2020, 16:24:12
What's the reasoning behind using 7075 for the case? Seems a little overboard since 2024 for all intents and purposes is just as good and generally cheaper to machine. I saw that you mentioned 7075 was best for 'typing consistency and strength.' How did you test this and what traits make for good typing consistency and strength? I'm planning on designing my own board so it'd be helpful to understand the thought process.
I'm not sure which is more impressive... the fact that you have that specific knowledge of metallurgy or the fact that you came out of lurking just to make this your one and only post.
e: I don't think 2024 was ever even mentioned so maybe it just wasn't considered?
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Mon, 10 August 2020, 18:45:24
What's the reasoning behind using 7075 for the case? Seems a little overboard since 2024 for all intents and purposes is just as good and generally cheaper to machine. I saw that you mentioned 7075 was best for 'typing consistency and strength.' How did you test this and what traits make for good typing consistency and strength? I'm planning on designing my own board so it'd be helpful to understand the thought process.
Oof, that quote about 7075 is no longer valid as the plate is no longer integrated. However, to more directly answer your question, 2024 was never considered. Of the alloys I did test, 7075 proved to have the most consistent generation results, which is why I opted to use it over something like 6061. Now that the plate is no longer integrated, I will likely no longer use 7075 for the case to both help lower cost, and to make anodization possible. However, the metal version is currently on hold while I focus on getting the PC version out the door, so TBD on my final decision there.
Post by: paperassgasket on Sun, 23 August 2020, 23:33:20
Post by: mellowtempo on Sat, 05 September 2020, 01:16:30
What's the reasoning behind using 7075 for the case? Seems a little overboard since 2024 for all intents and purposes is just as good and generally cheaper to machine. I saw that you mentioned 7075 was best for 'typing consistency and strength.' How did you test this and what traits make for good typing consistency and strength? I'm planning on designing my own board so it'd be helpful to understand the thought process.
I'm not sure which is more impressive... the fact that you have that specific knowledge of metallurgy or the fact that you came out of lurking just to make this your one and only post.
e: I don't think 2024 was ever even mentioned so maybe it just wasn't considered?
Haha I'm not much of a geekhack guy, really only stay on the mechreddits, but the evolv just has me too interested. And I have some experience with chemical engineering and thought the 7075 was an unnecessarily expensive choice when there are much more mainstream affordable aluminum alloys. Glad to see the creator is really dedicated to making his board affordable but also high quality though.
Post by: Buburoo on Sat, 05 September 2020, 16:37:32
Post by: KeebOnMe on Sun, 06 September 2020, 23:42:43
Post by: antcrm on Mon, 07 September 2020, 00:19:23
Post by: OnNitrous on Wed, 23 September 2020, 05:38:40
if so can I Join this please?
forgive me if I missed something though the 12 pages of post.
but this is Beautiful.
Post by: gilbert on Wed, 23 September 2020, 07:47:47
Post by: spedywin on Thu, 01 October 2020, 13:37:00
Post by: Alga on Wed, 28 October 2020, 04:58:18
One question, in the renders of the PBT Amalfi is what looks like a polycarb version of this keyboard. It looks awesome.
Will that be an option? Pease say yes....
please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please
Post by: sublyme on Thu, 12 November 2020, 12:11:26
Post by: x_mister on Fri, 25 December 2020, 04:09:22
Post by: FoxFire007 on Mon, 28 December 2020, 02:59:41
Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
Post by: Poesjuh on Mon, 28 December 2020, 12:04:03
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: FoxFire007 on Tue, 29 December 2020, 02:51:41
Hasn’t been any yet, so you didn’t miss it :)That is hella good news lol. If this stays a raffle system I hope I get a spot.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
Post by: dudewth on Mon, 04 January 2021, 11:51:29
Post by: stowz on Mon, 04 January 2021, 14:30:56
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Mon, 04 January 2021, 15:26:58
Post by: prizeS on Sun, 10 January 2021, 21:22:02
Movement on this coming super soon with the FnF protos currently shipping!
ooh
Post by: FoxFire007 on Wed, 13 January 2021, 21:20:04
Movement on this coming super soon with the FnF protos currently shipping!Waiting with, school girl at a Bieber concert, level of excitement.
Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
Post by: pom on Sat, 23 January 2021, 07:45:36
How do you buy this keyboard? Is it going on a drop website?
What kinds of timelines is common with these buys? Is it 1 year from order to arrival?
Thanks for any help!
Post by: holer on Mon, 25 January 2021, 03:24:07
Obligatory "Never bought a KB before, total noob" comment:
How do you buy this keyboard? Is it going on a drop website?
What kinds of timelines is common with these buys? Is it 1 year from order to arrival?
Thanks for any help!
Welcome :)
While I can't answer for this specific project, but in general:
- Boards are most sold in a group buy on a website by the developer and/or a selection of regional vendors
- Most boards are manifactured in east asia, and the estimated lead time seems to be around 6-12 month at the moment
Again, I do have any information about this board in particular :)
Post by: jadhvank on Tue, 26 January 2021, 17:29:53
Post by: Gondolindrim on Wed, 27 January 2021, 08:19:06
How can I buy this keyboard?
The board is still under final developmental stages and will enter group buy. There isn't an ETA on that yet.
Post by: lycantivis on Wed, 27 January 2021, 10:13:15
Post by: MQLYU on Tue, 09 March 2021, 06:53:20
Post by: Alejo1707 on Tue, 09 March 2021, 07:57:34
How can I buy this keyboard?
The board is still under final developmental stages and will enter group buy. There isn't an ETA on that yet.
Oooofff thanks god!
I've seen so many renders on this board and was fervently hoping to get my hands on one. Will keep an eye on the post and thanks for the info! :D
Post by: InvXXVII on Fri, 12 March 2021, 20:23:23
This thing is nuts. Insane Hype.
I dont wanna think about how much dust will get caught on top of that space frame looking thing down below.
Regarding the knob on top of the board, are you getting the additional functionality from in-plane translation of the knob or rotation of the knob about the depth axis of the keyboard? It would be so slick if I could push it horizontally/vertically without it rotating out of plane.
Unfortunately not:
https://imgur.com/BGeH9Wu
Hmmmm okay.
Thanks for the animation!
No problem! Sorry for the poor quality, threw it together really quickly. If I can find a rotary joystick that has lateral functionality, I will switch to it with no hesitation.
WOW. You should consider putting that animation in the original post because first of all, it looks pretty sweet, and, secondly, it perfectly answers the question I was going to ask. That animation made me go from "thinking about this board" to "definitely will join GB" (depending on price of course). I look forward to future updates.
Post by: Guns on Wed, 17 March 2021, 19:58:13
Post by: InvXXVII on Wed, 17 March 2021, 21:16:53
Is this IC dead or?
Still alive and working on prototypes. Join their Discord for more frequent updates.
Post by: Qwapa on Mon, 10 May 2021, 19:21:24
Post by: Butterbeer on Sat, 15 May 2021, 22:51:52
If anyone has any information on where to get new updates or which vendors will be moving this project forward please leave a post. The Discord has been archived. Thanks!
Post by: Gondolindrim on Sun, 16 May 2021, 00:33:14
According to Nathan, the Evolv has been handed over to vendors.
If anyone has any information on where to get new updates or which vendors will be moving this project forward please leave a post. The Discord has been archived. Thanks!
Yes, indeed. As far as PCB goes, it is in full active development and I fully intend to make this happen. I am still waiting for the vendors to contact me.
Post by: bobsacamano on Sun, 16 May 2021, 10:17:05
Post by: General_Pretzel on Sun, 16 May 2021, 19:09:24
According to Nathan, the Evolv has been handed over to vendors.
If anyone has any information on where to get new updates or which vendors will be moving this project forward please leave a post. The Discord has been archived. Thanks!
Yes, indeed. As far as PCB goes, it is in full active development and I fully intend to make this happen. I am still waiting for the vendors to contact me.
Is there a discord or something where we can track progress? I understand wanting to take a break or whatever, but it's kind of lame that no information was given on how to continue following along on the project. Geekhack is just not a super reliable place to follow along on these sorts of projects.
Post by: bananarama on Sun, 16 May 2021, 20:38:33
Post by: tsukune1349 on Sun, 16 May 2021, 21:51:56
Will they start to sell it at their own convenience or will they wait for Nathan to come back and resume the project? o.O
Post by: Gondolindrim on Mon, 17 May 2021, 01:05:55
For the Discord members, what did Nathan mean by "The board has been handed over to vendors"?
Will they start to sell it at their own convenience or will they wait for Nathan to come back and resume the project? o.O
From what I understand, vendors will take the projects forward.
Post by: SwitchKeys on Mon, 17 May 2021, 04:00:09
Post by: tsukune1349 on Tue, 18 May 2021, 05:30:43
Hi all. We've currently got the reins for the project in Nathan's absence. We look forward to sharing more information in the future soon!
Great news, looking forward to the GB :thumb:
Post by: PradyXT on Tue, 18 May 2021, 07:24:44
Post by: Ranger_Trivette on Tue, 18 May 2021, 07:37:59
by molt? welded? cnc milled?
Post by: NoThankYou on Wed, 19 May 2021, 21:37:52
Could I possibly get a different discord link?
Post by: brodiegrizz on Wed, 19 May 2021, 22:11:32
Post by: General_Pretzel on Sun, 06 June 2021, 12:51:05
Hi all. We've currently got the reins for the project in Nathan's absence. We look forward to sharing more information in the future soon!
How soon can we expect an update on this? Where will more details be shared? Is there a new Discord channel we can join to follow along?
Post by: SwitchKeys on Sun, 06 June 2021, 17:35:33
Lead times and part shortages (Particularly micro controllers) are causing havoc to supply chains presently, so we can afford to take some time and get it 100%.
Post by: eljudio42 on Sun, 06 June 2021, 21:28:59
At the moment we are just in pre-preperation. Nathan is taking some time off and we've still got some things in discussion - Unfortunately we don't have a tentative date for the next update but rest assured we will get this moving as quickly as possible :thumb:
Lead times and part shortages (Particularly micro controllers) are causing havoc to supply chains presently, so we can afford to take some time and get it 100%.
Will the discord still be the place to stay up to date for the board going forward or will it be this post or another discord?
Here's a link for those in need https://discord.gg/KhNs3JSagK
Post by: Lioot on Tue, 06 July 2021, 06:20:07
Post by: Alejo1707 on Wed, 07 July 2021, 17:06:06
I don't think the Discord server will work. All channels have been locked and only 3 remain. Our best option is to stay tuned to this thread, unless the guys who took over the project have another server, that would be great!At the moment we are just in pre-preperation. Nathan is taking some time off and we've still got some things in discussion - Unfortunately we don't have a tentative date for the next update but rest assured we will get this moving as quickly as possible :thumb:
Lead times and part shortages (Particularly micro controllers) are causing havoc to supply chains presently, so we can afford to take some time and get it 100%.
Will the discord still be the place to stay up to date for the board going forward or will it be this post or another discord?
Here's a link for those in need https://discord.gg/KhNs3JSagK
Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk
Post by: Gabrielcr78 on Tue, 20 July 2021, 11:43:31
thanks!
Post by: KeyCartel on Fri, 06 August 2021, 19:12:41
Post by: General_Pretzel on Mon, 09 August 2021, 23:02:21
At the moment we are just in pre-preperation. Nathan is taking some time off and we've still got some things in discussion - Unfortunately we don't have a tentative date for the next update but rest assured we will get this moving as quickly as possible :thumb:
Lead times and part shortages (Particularly micro controllers) are causing havoc to supply chains presently, so we can afford to take some time and get it 100%.
Any updates yet? It'd be a real shame for this project to just die off.
Post by: noah1001 on Mon, 09 August 2021, 23:07:23
Post by: iNKY Studio on Tue, 10 August 2021, 02:03:09
Post by: clackeys on Thu, 12 August 2021, 10:26:19
Post by: Jojo.NGNS on Mon, 16 August 2021, 07:58:20
Post by: General_Pretzel on Mon, 13 September 2021, 00:06:13
I'm curious why SwitchKeys were even chosen to run the project - have they ever produced their own keyboard? They just seem like any other vendor selling third-party products. It seems like there could've been others that could've made this project a bit more of a priority. Not hating, but just really sad this project will likely never come to life.
Post by: Diggidy on Mon, 13 September 2021, 07:11:08
Post by: i luv chuletas on Mon, 13 September 2021, 08:43:07
Post by: santela on Wed, 15 September 2021, 20:29:02
Post by: SwitchKeys on Wed, 15 September 2021, 21:14:28
Guys, things take time, specially with how crazy the available of raw materials and components is at the moment. Let's give the boys a chance and hope to hear more about everything soon!
Exactly this! Nathan has been working hard behind the scenes and there will be more news to share later on in the year, or early next. There will be an update the moment there is something newsworthy to share.
Best,
Stef
Post by: Alejo1707 on Thu, 16 September 2021, 07:17:06
Oh s*t! It's alive!Guys, things take time, specially with how crazy the available of raw materials and components is at the moment. Let's give the boys a chance and hope to hear more about everything soon!
Exactly this! Nathan has been working hard behind the scenes and there will be more news to share later on in the year, or early next. There will be an update the moment there is something newsworthy to share.
Best,
Stef
Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk
Post by: Gondolindrim on Thu, 23 September 2021, 23:16:18
As it often happens in this hobby - ambitious projects can take too long and the hype dies off or the project is dead itself. Would be a shame for this project to go away tho, still remember the immense hype when it was first announced.
Ambitious? Most certainly.
Dead?
Hell no. Evolving.
Post by: Thockologist on Tue, 05 October 2021, 02:22:43
If the limited group buy for the all metal one goes well do you think you'll do another run? I'm guessing there wouldn't be more than a couple or few hundred so NathanAlphaMan do the QC they want but this could mean tons of people who didn't win the raffle would be very eager for a second run of the all-metal version.
Post by: Sedula on Fri, 08 October 2021, 13:20:35
There will be an update the moment there is something newsworthy to share.
Checking in every so often even just to say "nothing new" is newsworthy. It lets people know that projects aren't abandoned and builds confidence in your commitment to communication and transparency. Going completely silent is not a professional look and erodes trust. Stopping by even just to make a simple post like this is very reassuring to the people following the project.
Post by: Thockologist on Thu, 14 October 2021, 03:04:59
Checking in every so often even just to say "nothing new" is newsworthy. It lets people know that projects aren't abandoned and builds confidence in your commitment to communication and transparency. Going completely silent is not a professional look and erodes trust. Stopping by even just to make a simple post like this is very reassuring to the people following the project.
I'm not certain if they're going to continue the idea of making the Evolv (or possibly just no longer doing a raffle GB). In their discord I mentioned something along the lines of waiting for the Evolv GB raffle that was being planned and the response to it was "Evolv raffle? Chaos having effects already. We in imagination land" ("Chaos having effects" was in reference to previous discussion about GMK Chaos) so it could be the radio silence is because the board is no longer going to be made. They apparently spoke to manufacturers about numbers but that was a fair while ago and nothing in the Discord about it has been said since then, other than the nebulous imagination land thing. I hope it's not out of line to share things that were mentioned in the Discord.
I definitely agree about the complete silence on the project not being a good sign, especially if big moves relating to its production. In my opinion talking to manufacturers is definitely newsworthy enough for a quick post.
Post by: Alejo1707 on Thu, 14 October 2021, 10:47:08
Checking in every so often even just to say "nothing new" is newsworthy. It lets people know that projects aren't abandoned and builds confidence in your commitment to communication and transparency. Going completely silent is not a professional look and erodes trust. Stopping by even just to make a simple post like this is very reassuring to the people following the project.
I'm not certain if they're going to continue the idea of making the Evolv (or possibly just no longer doing a raffle GB). In their discord I mentioned something along the lines of waiting for the Evolv GB raffle that was being planned and the response to it was "Evolv raffle? Chaos having effects already. We in imagination land" ("Chaos having effects" was in reference to previous discussion about GMK Chaos) so it could be the radio silence is because the board is no longer going to be made. They apparently spoke to manufacturers about numbers but that was a fair while ago and nothing in the Discord about it has been said since then, other than the nebulous imagination land thing. I hope it's not out of line to share things that were mentioned in the Discord.
I definitely agree about the complete silence on the project not being a good sign, especially if big moves relating to its production. In my opinion talking to manufacturers is definitely newsworthy enough for a quick post.
This only shows part of the picture and only shows your current stance on the project. Yes, there has not been a formal announcement, and that is indeed sad to the people not present on their discord. I just joined to corroborate your information so I can provide a clearer picture without your bias. STEW, who is a member of SwitchKeys said specifically this:
"evolv raffle? wow chaos having effects already. We in imagination land"
This means nothing, just that there are no plans on launching the keyboard yet.
I took a little more time and searched for more information on the board status and found this as well:
"evolve might be closer to double the price of the bubble"
-STEW, 09/28/2021
Considering the date, it looks like things are moving forward, moreover, STEFF looks like has a proto of the board, and one of his posts on August of this year states this:
Latest revisions from @TeamKate
My opinion on your posts is the same I have for most people talking on the Fourteen server about the Whimsy, you over-hyped a keyboard that was at least started by a fellow enthusiast who might run a different agenda, with keebing on the side. Nathan passed the project down to SK for personal reasons, and from what I can tell, SK is working hard towards finalizing it. About the lack of information being shared, well, it's their product and they have the right to do with it whatever they want, we haven't put any money into it, and all the protos and failed tests are coming out of their pockets if the product never goes live. Limited information usually kills interest on people, but once again, that is their decision and they are entitled to it.
Finally, I would like to ask to all people reading not to hype the project, take it as it is at the moment: a keyboard in development that might or might not happen. Be conscious buyers and enthusiasts. I love the design and of course would love to have one in my hands and will be very excited if it ever goes live and manage to snatch one out, but we are not there yet, so why get frustrated?
Post by: Gondolindrim on Thu, 14 October 2021, 11:40:17
Post by: mcmcmc on Fri, 15 October 2021, 09:57:17
Post by: Gondolindrim on Sat, 16 October 2021, 14:24:32
Post by: ylothar on Sun, 17 October 2021, 03:04:13
Guys I'll be streaming some firmware work for the Evolv protos today at 9PM BRT (in about 4h 30 mins).We will implement some nice little feature I call "encoder modes"!
I missed that! :eek:
Is it possible to view the stream recording?
Post by: Thockologist on Sun, 17 October 2021, 07:41:50
I missed that! :eek:
Is it possible to view the stream recording?
The VOD is up on his twitch channel (same name as here).
Post by: Gondolindrim on Sun, 17 October 2021, 11:50:52
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1178870430
In order to understand what's going on, I recommend watching from 02:06:20 : https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1178870430?t=02h06m20s
Post by: Gondolindrim on Sun, 17 October 2021, 12:13:42
For some time now I've been thinking that encoder implementations on keyboards were kind of lame. Generally they do one thing and one thing only, like control your computer volume, all time and there's no way to change that during runtime; to change encoder functionality you need to download QMK, program your own encoder, flash the PCB... Yuck, right? There were some implementations here and there that did it something a little bit more sophisticated, but for the most part that is pretty much it. It just felt... frustrating that I would use my car radio and its simple encoder would do it all, from controlling the volume to doing equalizer, to tuning stations. Encoders are meant for greatness, and as the great philosopher Hineybush once said: if you want to be a knob, then be a knob.
For some time now some keyboard designers have tackled this problem in a myriad of ways; for instance, Jack Humbert tried to implement an encoder matrix. See this video:
Jack's implementation makes it possible to hook up multiple encoders to a keyboard using minimal MCU pins. In that implementation, one encoder would, say, control computer volume, another encoder controls LED brightness, another one mimicks mouse wheel, and the list goes on. Myself I tried something similar on Sagittarius (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=107023.0) which (and I didn't see this at the time) is kind of unnecessary... So it came out as a huge meme, culminating with the Simon stream ganking me and I just gave up into madness and "designed" a full encoder Sagittarius which we sent to Taeha Types DMs in Discord because he complained about encoders during the Sagittarius build stream (sorry Nathan, it was bigger me...)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725449853928341555/725449890175647865/Screenshot_from_2020-06-24_17-38-02.png)
So in short, it is really difficult to make a keyboard support multiple encoder funcionalities in a friendly way that allows the user to seamlessly switch between functionalities.
For Evolv, I still wanted to tackle this problem, but I came up with a lightbulb idea: something I call "encoder modes". The idea here being, the encoder has different modes of operation which can be selected by holding the encoder click for ~2s, which cycles between modes, or pressing layer 1 and rotating the encoder, which also cycles between the modes back and forth. The way you know what mode is up at a given instant is that the RGBs glow a specific color for each mode.
So, for instance, on my stream video, what I do is, I have three encoder modes:
- A pink mode, which I call "media mode": rotating does vol up/down, click does mute, directionals do next/previous song, stop and play.
- A cyan mode, called "application mode": the rotating does alt-tabbing and the click closes it (once you rotate the encoder the alt-tab application menu pops up and you can select an application by either clicking the encoder or waiting for 2s); horizontal directionals cycle between application tabs doing ctrl+tab or ctrl+shift+tab (this would change between Chrome tabs for instance) and vertical directionals do page up/down
- An yellow mode, called "mouse mode": rotating does mousewheel up and down, clicking does mouseclick, and directionals do arrows
These modes are fully user-programmable and customizable, by the way, like adding or removing encoder modes, changing their specific colors, list goes on.
And my thoughts are: this works! This does the trick! The encoder has multiple funcionalities which I can switch among easily and seamlessly. I am very, very happy with this.
However, the directionals are way too much. They make the encoder and the modes kind of way too complicated... And I get that the whole theme about Evolv is to be just a on-your-face overengineered keyboard, but the way the directionals are they just harm the experience more than they add to the core theme. I'm talking to Nathan AlphaMan to switch back into your common EC11E encoder which does rotation and click, but no directionals. This way, everything would be much more clear-cut: we'd still have the encoder modes, but whatever the directionals do can be programmed into another encoder mode or another key in another layer.
In any case, the stream was kind of quiet (firmware streams always are) but I had a blast doing it. There are some things to flush out still (the joystic encoder has a problem with the click and the directionals, they all activate at the same time and it's horrible to deal with software-wise).
So yeah, I am pretty happy with what Evolv has become in this encoder thing. This is what peak encoder performance looks like you guys.
LOOK AT ME, HINEY. I AM BECOME KNOBMAN.
Post by: ylothar on Sun, 17 October 2021, 15:55:29
Post by: General_Pretzel on Mon, 18 October 2021, 11:50:10
Would love to see the GB for this run sometime next year, if possible.
Post by: Technofrikus on Mon, 18 October 2021, 16:03:04
But your encoder mode is nice as well. Haven't seen the stream so not sure how you implemented it. But a bit more permanent than layers.
Post by: Gondolindrim on Tue, 19 October 2021, 00:38:05
Post by: rondg on Wed, 20 October 2021, 16:11:11
Post by: Gondolindrim on Wed, 20 October 2021, 17:14:42
Where can I buy those joystick encoders?
You will have to ask Nathan that -- I'm not comfortable publicly sharing design details like parts numbers at this stage yet
Post by: stevenT on Thu, 21 October 2021, 19:10:23
Post by: Transistor on Wed, 03 November 2021, 19:20:02
I wanted to design a case for a keyboard and since I wont be able to afford this case+pcb i might as-well try designing a case for this keyboard.
Thanks ;D
Post by: Gondolindrim on Wed, 03 November 2021, 19:40:39
Around how expensive would the pcb be?
I wanted to design a case for a keyboard and since I wont be able to afford this case+pcb i might as-well try designing a case for this keyboard.
Thanks ;D
As much as I am a huge open-source adept, I must say that I strongly suggest you talk to Nathan (the Evolv's designer) before designing a case around this PCB.
Post by: windlabs on Thu, 04 November 2021, 02:11:23
Post by: Totoro on Thu, 04 November 2021, 03:36:27
Show Image
Evolv(https://i.imgur.com/ewQIJvH.png) (https://www.instagram.com/nathan.alpha.man/)
Designed By Alpha StudioShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/rb4YE67.png)
Welcome to the Evolv2, and evolution of a crazy idea.
Read the post below OP for information about the design philosophy behind the revision.
IC FORM: https://forms.gle/1xVWXXrjzgP9LGRDA
The ArrowsShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/AKi3os7.jpg)
Beginning with the layout, the Evolv opts for a 1.5u right shift over the 1.75u shift widespread in blocked 75 layouts.
By doing so, the arrows line up neatly with the right mods, allowing for a continuous .25u bezel.
The Rotary JoystickShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/VWo8O9R.jpg)
In the upper-right corner of the board, utility wins the battle over aesthetics.
No badges or logos; instead, the Evolv features a design evolution to the knob: the rotary joystick.
With users able to assign macros to five unique positions* and rotation, the Evolv packs functionality in a small space.
The BackShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/UXsbjx4.jpg)
A teaser to what's inside the board, the bottom piece of the keyboard is a stunning visual accent.
Created through a process known as generative design, the Evolv can support a truck without breaking, all while looking fantastic.
The Plate
Render pending, the Evolv redesign will still feature a generative plate, however, it will be available as an extra during GB
The AssemblyShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/orl7vP3.jpg)
To top off the design, the Evolv features no visible seams or screws once assembled.
The SpecsShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/Psu4nQc.jpg)
Angle: 8° (Half a degree more compared to v1)
Material: 7075 Aluminum + Cast Aluminum
Colors: TBD (Black + Raw and Black + Gold confirmed)
Plate: Full isolation mounted carbon fibre plate, considering adding more options.
PCB: Custom designed PCB: solderable, QMK, VIA, integrated USB-C port.
Weight: ~1.5Kg
Price: TBD, not as high as the first iteration of the Evolv
PCB compatibility, fixed layouts TBD:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/wO80kqN.png)
Render GalleryShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/9OMunGh.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/EFmwtPp.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/Fm3OhHk.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/TvrSh3h.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/kyH5OTN.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/5VAwCnM.png)
Social
(https://i.imgur.com/1cm9kDU.png) (https://discord.gg/CDmzRRB)
Acknowledgements
LBaron, this board wouldn't exist without him. From the minor details to the design of the plate, he was always there to provide invaluable feedback
Abec13, for teaching me how to render
Yangsta, for teaching me about vibration
Fropsie, Stef, and my Discord Server, for all the love and support
The Top Clack Community. Love you guys <2
Update History
5/6/20 - Introduced a More Organic Base to v2 Based on Feedback
5/1/20 - Prototype Writeup and Board Redesign
4/9/20 - First Proto Pics Posted
3/24/20 - First Proto Completes Production
3/10/20 - Black + Gold Wins Color Poll and First Proto is Ordered
2/11/20 - Color Poll Went Live
2/6/20 - Generative Plate Writeup Added to IC
2/4/20 - IC Launch
Old Version 1 Renders
More
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/PeMJyKe.png)
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/KgUV5Dh.png)
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/z2jrJDO.png)
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/jKzjGQl.png)
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/VTbtnym.png)
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/sBJo48P.png)
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/iUlQ6XE.png)
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/OoWqMLQ.png)
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/6kIo042.png)
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/hssIpJB.png)
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/8wj3lrF.png)
Notes:
*: The five unique positions for the rotary joystick are (N, E, S, W, and pushed down)
i like it!
Post by: Alejo1707 on Thu, 04 November 2021, 15:18:56
Around how expensive would the pcb be?
I wanted to design a case for a keyboard and since I wont be able to afford this case+pcb i might as-well try designing a case for this keyboard.
Thanks ;D
As much as I am a huge open-source adept, I must say that I strongly suggest you talk to Nathan (the Evolv's designer) before designing a case around this PCB.
Oh wow, thought that Nathan left the community after leaving the project in SK hands.
Post by: Gondolindrim on Thu, 04 November 2021, 15:47:12
Around how expensive would the pcb be?
I wanted to design a case for a keyboard and since I wont be able to afford this case+pcb i might as-well try designing a case for this keyboard.
Thanks ;D
As much as I am a huge open-source adept, I must say that I strongly suggest you talk to Nathan (the Evolv's designer) before designing a case around this PCB.
Oh wow, thought that Nathan left the community after leaving the project in SK hands.
You are in for a treat! Nathan didn't leave the community nor did he leave Evolv in anyone's hands!
Post by: Rik.caffeinated on Thu, 04 November 2021, 16:26:55
Post by: oilpapers on Tue, 16 November 2021, 10:34:16
Post by: vicious7 on Thu, 25 November 2021, 17:18:48
Post by: General_Pretzel on Mon, 07 February 2022, 10:12:23
Post by: misotsu on Tue, 08 February 2022, 10:40:18
Post by: PrinceCornNM on Tue, 08 February 2022, 10:55:44
Post by: marici22 on Tue, 08 February 2022, 16:25:42
Post by: amillie on Wed, 09 February 2022, 19:11:12
Post by: madcap11 on Thu, 10 February 2022, 22:01:46
Post by: Gondolindrim on Sun, 13 March 2022, 18:17:47
http://twitch.tv/gondolindrim_
Post by: General_Pretzel on Sun, 10 April 2022, 12:31:55
Guys in 45 minutes I'll open stream designing the Evolv revision Beta PCB
http://twitch.tv/gondolindrim_
How many more revisions are there going to be before this project actually hits GB? It seems like the manufacturing of the actual case has been more of a problem to figure out than the PCB...
Post by: Gondolindrim on Sun, 10 April 2022, 15:08:08
Guys in 45 minutes I'll open stream designing the Evolv revision Beta PCB
http://twitch.tv/gondolindrim_
How many more revisions are there going to be before this project actually hits GB? It seems like the manufacturing of the actual case has been more of a problem to figure out than the PCB...
No idea — Nathan is working on the logistics with vendors too. There's a lot to figure out in a GB that is not only related to design but also production and fulfillment, but I hear they are close.
Post by: PuNkShoO on Thu, 21 July 2022, 17:44:06
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 21 July 2022, 18:51:16
Any word on this? Is this project dead? Love the design and if not I can't wait to see the finale.
i haven't heard anything about this basically since gondo's stream but i'm kind of out of the loop so who knows
GB numbers are in the ****ing toilet lately so they might be holding off
but given how much of a logistical nightmare the last GB was, it may just be taking some time
Post by: Gondolindrim on Thu, 21 July 2022, 19:32:13
Any word on this? Is this project dead? Love the design and if not I can't wait to see the finale.
i haven't heard anything about this basically since gondo's stream but i'm kind of out of the loop so who knows
GB numbers are in the ****ing toilet lately so they might be holding off
but given how much of a logistical nightmare the last GB was, it may just be taking some time
Project not dead, PCB and case updates are finished, we are waiting on protos. Should hear from us soon
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 21 July 2022, 20:20:15
Any word on this? Is this project dead? Love the design and if not I can't wait to see the finale.
i haven't heard anything about this basically since gondo's stream but i'm kind of out of the loop so who knows
GB numbers are in the ****ing toilet lately so they might be holding off
but given how much of a logistical nightmare the last GB was, it may just be taking some time
Project not dead, PCB and case updates are finished, we are waiting on protos. Should hear from us soon
thanks king
Post by: PuNkShoO on Mon, 25 July 2022, 21:03:42
Amazing! Thanks for the update!Any word on this? Is this project dead? Love the design and if not I can't wait to see the finale.
i haven't heard anything about this basically since gondo's stream but i'm kind of out of the loop so who knows
GB numbers are in the ****ing toilet lately so they might be holding off
but given how much of a logistical nightmare the last GB was, it may just be taking some time
Project not dead, PCB and case updates are finished, we are waiting on protos. Should hear from us soon
Post by: Zaum.Tech on Tue, 26 July 2022, 04:00:10
Post by: Ryohka on Sat, 20 August 2022, 19:51:15
Any word on this? Is this project dead? Love the design and if not I can't wait to see the finale.
i haven't heard anything about this basically since gondo's stream but i'm kind of out of the loop so who knows
GB numbers are in the ****ing toilet lately so they might be holding off
but given how much of a logistical nightmare the last GB was, it may just be taking some time
Project not dead, PCB and case updates are finished, we are waiting on protos. Should hear from us soon
\ it's still alive /
thanks for your hard work. hope to see more update soon.
Post by: Gondolindrim on Thu, 25 August 2022, 15:02:48
So we are on the final stages of designing the new version and we should have prototypes soon, but I just wasn't able to refrain myself from posting some of the awesome progress we have made so far on the PCB.
Aesthetics
(https://imgur.com/02XPYy2.jpg)
Following the alien-looks-theme of Evolv, we have reworked the overall aesthetics of the PCB to something out of this world. Nathan has come up with a weird indeed image replicating the cozy moonlight of an alien world.
Under the hood
The Evolv75 revision Beta PCB will use an ARM STM32F401 MCU for its availability and price (silicon shortage means nothing in alien worlds). It will support a wide variety of layouts, including ISO (yikes). PCB will feature QMK/VIA support.
The Beta PCB will use a USB daughterboard with JST connector this time around.
(https://imgur.com/vMySeAg.jpg)
Functionality
The main characteristic of Evolv, at least functionality-wise, is the usage of a rotary joystick, that is, an "encoder that can also click on the four directions".
We gathered some feedback from the Evolv CE folks and on this IC page. Some people pointed out that the joystick was maybe too much for them and they wish they could just use a run-of-the-mill encoder with no directionals. Other people said that the joystick is a welcome novelty, and while I belong to this second roster, I still think people that just want a simpler thing also have a point.
So why choose?
(https://imgur.com/ArQmWI7.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/hxPqt6x.jpg)
The Release Beta PCB will support both encoder AND joystick, so both people are happy. Evolv will also have the "encoder modes" feature which allows for multiple functionality of the encoder with a simple holding of the encoder!
There is a downside to this, however: the joystick and the encoder do not support the same knobs, so both will need their own.
For the CE people
For the CE guys, we understand that the first support was lackluster and we are probably retrofitting the Alpha PCB with these all-new changes so our first backers are not left thinking they were simple beta-testers. Me and Nathan are working on supplying these PCBs soon.
Disclaimer
Of course guys this is just a "teaser update" and the renders here are just that, renders. There are still changes to be made, so the renders are not 100% reflective of the final product but pretty close as far as we can tell right now.
What about case protos, GB dates, pricing...?
Case prototypes will arrive soon and first testings are scheduled. For now we have no tentative GB dates or pricing, but we are steadily getting there. Hopefully we will have some more set-in-stone info soon!
Post by: MC on Sun, 28 August 2022, 13:44:26
Post by: PrinceCornNM on Tue, 04 October 2022, 14:32:24
Ok guys, huge update incoming!
So we are on the final stages of designing the new version and we should have prototypes soon, but I just wasn't able to refrain myself from posting some of the awesome progress we have made so far on the PCB.
AestheticsShow Image(https://imgur.com/02XPYy2.jpg)
Following the alien-looks-theme of Evolv, we have reworked the overall aesthetics of the PCB to something out of this world. Nathan has come up with a weird indeed image replicating the cozy moonlight of an alien world.
Under the hood
The Evolv75 revision Beta PCB will use an ARM STM32F401 MCU for its availability and price (silicon shortage means nothing in alien worlds). It will support a wide variety of layouts, including ISO (yikes). PCB will feature QMK/VIA support.
The Beta PCB will use a USB daughterboard with JST connector this time around.Show Image(https://imgur.com/vMySeAg.jpg)
Functionality
The main characteristic of Evolv, at least functionality-wise, is the usage of a rotary joystick, that is, an "encoder that can also click on the four directions".
We gathered some feedback from the Evolv CE folks and on this IC page. Some people pointed out that the joystick was maybe too much for them and they wish they could just use a run-of-the-mill encoder with no directionals. Other people said that the joystick is a welcome novelty, and while I belong to this second roster, I still think people that just want a simpler thing also have a point.
So why choose?Show Image(https://imgur.com/ArQmWI7.jpg)Show Image(https://imgur.com/hxPqt6x.jpg)
The Release Beta PCB will support both encoder AND joystick, so both people are happy. Evolv will also have the "encoder modes" feature which allows for multiple functionality of the encoder with a simple holding of the encoder!
There is a downside to this, however: the joystick and the encoder do not support the same knobs, so both will need their own.
For the CE people
For the CE guys, we understand that the first support was lackluster and we are probably retrofitting the Alpha PCB with these all-new changes so our first backers are not left thinking they were simple beta-testers. Me and Nathan are working on supplying these PCBs soon.
Disclaimer
Of course guys this is just a "teaser update" and the renders here are just that, renders. There are still changes to be made, so the renders are not 100% reflective of the final product but pretty close as far as we can tell right now.
What about case protos, GB dates, pricing...?
Case prototypes will arrive soon and first testings are scheduled. For now we have no tentative GB dates or pricing, but we are steadily getting there. Hopefully we will have some more set-in-stone info soon!
Post by: TheWonderBubble on Tue, 04 October 2022, 21:15:52
Post by: Stanced on Fri, 24 March 2023, 17:53:10
Post by: RefrigeratedToiletPaper on Fri, 11 August 2023, 00:40:33
Post by: antiserious on Mon, 14 August 2023, 22:27:10
Post by: Gondolindrim on Mon, 14 August 2023, 22:43:52
Anything new about this one? Seems like a really cool concept, would hate to see so much time and innovation go down the drain!
New prototypes were made, keyboard will run. Not sure what model (unlimited GB, instock, whatever) but it is going to happen. We are currently making a revision of PCB, should be in final steps.
Some proto pictures:
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/650100429530857472/1124402017926922382/IMG_3204.jpg)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1034873435416952903/1124418776214020096/IMG_3220.jpg)
Post by: antiserious on Tue, 15 August 2023, 23:00:16
Anything new about this one? Seems like a really cool concept, would hate to see so much time and innovation go down the drain!
New prototypes were made, keyboard will run. Not sure what model (unlimited GB, instock, whatever) but it is going to happen. We are currently making a revision of PCB, should be in final steps.
Some proto pictures:Show Image(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/650100429530857472/1124402017926922382/IMG_3204.jpg)Show Image(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1034873435416952903/1124418776214020096/IMG_3220.jpg)
God bless you, can't wait to hand over some of my money!! Proto pictures look amazing too!
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 17 August 2023, 09:57:44
Post by: Gondolindrim on Tue, 17 October 2023, 21:08:51
IC is up!
Post by: Xury46 on Wed, 18 October 2023, 01:55:33
Post by: Banzai on Wed, 18 October 2023, 17:18:34
Post by: godofdeath on Fri, 27 October 2023, 22:04:57
Post by: Gondolindrim on Sun, 29 October 2023, 20:40:36
Is there a one color option? Would like one of these for the office and I need basic all black.
Maybe send archetype a message on their Discord or an email?
Post by: Stanced on Thu, 25 January 2024, 19:06:31
Post by: Stanced on Thu, 25 January 2024, 19:06:59
Post by: firstworldproblems on Sat, 03 February 2024, 05:49:49
I received an email this morning.
https://archetypemade.com/evolv-is-here/
It feels weird that the OP has not updated this thread or created a GB thread.
Post by: Gondolindrim on Sat, 03 February 2024, 11:54:19
So apparently pre-orders are live.
I received an email this morning.
https://archetypemade.com/evolv-is-here/
It feels weird that the OP has not updated this thread or created a GB thread.
After the announcement was made in Archetype's Discord server, the site received and insurgence of views and crashed. So Archetype decided to hold a little on marketing. Lots of interest for Evolv ;D
But yes, the preorders are live. You can check the configurations and options in the website already!
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Wed, 21 February 2024, 16:53:09
For your viewing enjoyment here is an edited VOD of Alexotos' build of Evolv in the memento colorway:
Post by: NathanAlphaMan on Wed, 21 February 2024, 17:16:52
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=122525.0