Author Topic: Got any interesting layouts?  (Read 3551 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline iandoug

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 68
Got any interesting layouts?
« on: Fri, 04 August 2017, 10:39:53 »
Hi all

About to start with another round of layout tests, in our never-ending mission to seek out new worlds and boldy go where no keyboard has gone before (etc.).

So if you have any suggestions for layouts, or your own that you'd like me to include, please advise... :-)

Some restrictions:
1. Will be using Keyboard Layout Analyzer, using Patricks's original scoring as well as Den's first revised scoring.
2. So only able to handle layouts for ANSI, ErgoDox/Kinesis, and ErgoLinear/Matrix. Regret can't do Planck/etc styles at the moment.
3. Tests will be mostly English, some programming, and assorted other things typeable on standard US ANSI. Am not testing ISO/Euro layouts at the moment.

Following layouts are already in the mix:

ANSI

ABCDEF
Acemak 1
A-JOY
Aus der Neo Welt
Another Method NON
Another Method NON mirrored
AOEYK
Ashley-Gudyr
Arensito (fixed)
Arensito Simplified Objective-C
Asset
Balance Twelve (fixed)
BEAKL 4 Mod Ian AltGr 3
BEAKL Opted 36
BEAKL Opted 4
BEAKL Stretch
BLOU
Colemak mod DH (full)
Burroughs Bower (typewriter)
BvoFRak EN V0.5
Capewell
Capewell-Dvorak
Capewell-QWERF
CarpalxQ
CHIN
CHIN Programmer
Colemak
Colemak Mod JPH
Colemak mod Rshift-AltGr
Colemak mod Rshift-AltGr-Enter
Colemak Mod UK
Colemak Programmer
DangVu
DreymaR
Dvorak Hackers with Ordered Numbers
Dvorak mod Ian
Dvorak mod Kaeteker
Dvorak Programmer
Dvorak Programmer with Ordered Numbers
Dvorak
Dvorak Untangled
Dvorak mod Caps as Backspace
Dvorak mod UI Swap + Caps as Backspace
EAton
Halmak 1
Halmak 2
Halmak 2.2
Harrison
HIEAMTSRN
HIEADTSRN-wfgv
HIEADTSRN
HIEAMTSRN-wide
HIEAQDTSRN
HIEAQMTSRN
INA-DV
JPPE
Julie19
Klausler
Minimak 12-key
Minimak 8-key
MK-Type V2.Staggerfix
MTGap
NasiraJ
Neo 2 (v1)
Norman
OISEAU
PDK Wide Custom
QFMLWY
QGMLWB
QGMLWY
QWERFJ
QWERTY Programmer
QWERTY Untangled
QWERTY
QWERTY Top Row +Thumbs
QWERTY Wide Mod
QWKRFY
QWPR
QWYRFM
Right Pinky Friend (Writer Version)
schizoKBD AltGrSpc
schizoKBD shifted AltGrSpc
schizoKBD shifted
Seruxie
Si Wei
SorenK
Tallus
Tarmak 1
Tarmak 2
Tarmak 3
Tarmak 4
TNWMLC
TTast
TypeHacK
Typematrix
Vu Keys
Vu Keys swapped mod Ian 2
Widely Alternating A (lalop)
Workman
Workman Programmer
XPeRT
Xax M2 tweak
Xax M3
Xax R1 p
Xax R2 p
Xax S1
Xax S2
Xax X4
Yak

ErgoDox/Kinesis

Arensito Kinesis
BEAKL Opted 36 Ergo
BEAKL Opted 4 Ergo AltGr
BEAKL Opted 4 Ergo
BEAKRAK
BEAKRAK mod Ian
BEAKL Opted 34 Kinesis
BEAKL modified
BEAKL Opted 1 Ergo
BEAKL Opted 3 Ergo
Colemak Thumbshift Ergo
Colemak (v2) Ergo
Colemak (JJT) Ergo
Coleman Kinesis
eNNe-10246
eNNe-mod-ian-10238
Maltron 90 Ergodox
MTGAP Thumbshift Ergo
Norman Ergo
QWERTY Ergodox
QWERTY Kinesis
QWERTY Thumbshift Ergo
Svorak-r Kinesis
Xax -+T+- HT02a
YRINAQUO

ErgoLinear/Matrix

BEAKL 5 Ergolinear
BEAKL EZ Matrix
Arensito ErgoLinear
Colemak TS Ergolinear 2
Dvorak Ergolinear
Maltron Ergolinear
MTGap TS Ergolinear 2
Nawfal Ergolinear
Plum Ergolinear
QGMLWY Ergolinear
RSTHD Ergolinear 2
Seelpy 1.4 Ergolinear
Seelpy 1.8 Ergolinear
Seelpy 1.17 Ergolinear
Seelpy 1.22 Ergolinear
SorenK Ergolinear
Vu Keys Ergolinear
US Pat 3,929,216 mod Ian
Xax X2 Ergolinear HspaceAltgr B
Xax X5 Ergolinear
Xax X6.3H Ergolinear
Xax X6.4H Ergolinear
Xax X6 Ergolinear

Thanks, Ian

Offline Zammux

  • Posts: 16
Re: Got any interesting layouts?
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 04 August 2017, 12:15:45 »
I have my own 30-key layout called DSend that I use on ortholinear boards if you want to include it.

Code: [Select]
x c l f v / ; u p q
r s n t g , a e h i '
z w m d b . o y k j

Offline iandoug

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 68
Re: Got any interesting layouts?
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 04 August 2017, 13:42:44 »
I have my own 30-key layout called DSend that I use on ortholinear boards if you want to include it.

Code: [Select]
x c l f v / ; u p q
r s n t g , a e h i '
z w m d b . o y k j

Something like attached? Not sure where to put the keys not mentioned (or even exact form factor, for that matter),
Corrections welcome. :-)

Offline Zammux

  • Posts: 16
Re: Got any interesting layouts?
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 04 August 2017, 14:35:02 »
I have my own 30-key layout called DSend that I use on ortholinear boards if you want to include it.

Code: [Select]
x c l f v / ; u p q
r s n t g , a e h i '
z w m d b . o y k j

Something like attached? Not sure where to put the keys not mentioned (or even exact form factor, for that matter),
Corrections welcome. :-)

Looks good! I switch around my modifiers a bit, but that shouldn't matter too much for comparisons.

Offline Sc0tTy

  • Posts: 156
  • Location: Netherlands
  • Ergo enthousiast
Re: Got any interesting layouts?
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 04 August 2017, 14:42:42 »
@Zammux
Not sure if this effects KLA but I'd put the switch the shift key with the tilde and quote on each side. Lots better on the pinky in the real world :)
What language is that layout for? The O/A combo on the index finger looks interesting.

@Ian
I guess its probably best to use eNNe 102.02 instead of eNNe-10246 :)

Probably a good idea to have people add the language(s) for the layout too and have them put it in KLA of possible
Saves you some headache :)
1x ErgoDox EZ
2x Truly Ergonomic Keyboard 229
2x Kinesis Freestyle V3-VIP
2x Bamboo Pen & Touch (Mouse replacement)
2x Salli Swing
1x Herman Miller Aeron

Offline iandoug

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 68
Re: Got any interesting layouts?
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 04 August 2017, 14:55:37 »
Not sure if this effects KLA but I'd put the switch the shift key with the tilde and quote on each side. Lots better on the pinky in the real world :)
What language is that layout for? The O/A combo on the index finger looks interesting.

From seeing how other layouts do, I would put shift on left thumb and space on right thumb.
I'm pretty sure I've seen layouts with OA on same key, since oa/ao is not so common in English, but if you want low distance you need both to be on home fingers.

I guess its probably best to use eNNe 102.02 instead of eNNe-10246 :)

Yes I know... but what about tomorrow's version?  :-)

Probably a good idea to have people add the language(s) for the layout too and have them put it in KLA of possible
Saves you some headache :)

For now I'm restricting myself to English. The needs for Dutch are very different to the needs for Spanish or Swedish, and testing all those is going to be a mission.... :-)
There are apparently also issues with KLA support for UTF-8 (based on a discussion I had with someone trying to develop layouts for West African languages) so not sure about input texts etc.

Your latest eNNe is also pretty good at plain English. Beats Colemak, MTGap, etc... which is saying something.

Cheers, Ian


Offline Sc0tTy

  • Posts: 156
  • Location: Netherlands
  • Ergo enthousiast
Re: Got any interesting layouts?
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 04 August 2017, 15:03:26 »
Well for v1/2 testing .02 is probably the lowest it will get as I think I won't be using that for a while (also why I didn't mention the new v3 layout).

Yeah the language is just for people following the topic so they know, not for your index.
And not be like 'damn that's bad placement for Q' only to later realize that its for a totally weird language that uses Q's more then K's for instance :P
1x ErgoDox EZ
2x Truly Ergonomic Keyboard 229
2x Kinesis Freestyle V3-VIP
2x Bamboo Pen & Touch (Mouse replacement)
2x Salli Swing
1x Herman Miller Aeron

Offline iandoug

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 68
Re: Got any interesting layouts?
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 04 August 2017, 17:01:07 »

Looks good! I switch around my modifiers a bit, but that shouldn't matter too much for comparisons.

Okay if  I use this version? Scoring is for Alice on Den1


Offline Zammux

  • Posts: 16
Re: Got any interesting layouts?
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 04 August 2017, 18:25:19 »

Looks good! I switch around my modifiers a bit, but that shouldn't matter too much for comparisons.

Okay if  I use this version? Scoring is for Alice on Den1

Sure, still looks good to me.

Offline Snarfangel

  • Posts: 268
Re: Got any interesting layouts?
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 13 August 2017, 12:30:55 »
I'm interested myself in what you find out.

Offline iandoug

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 68
Re: Got any interesting layouts?
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 14 August 2017, 16:34:44 »
I'm interested myself in what you find out.

The previous batch of tests can be found here: http://www.keyboard-design.com/best-layouts.html

Note that tests with Patrick's original scoring were older and less comprehensive than the tests with Den's scoring (version 1).

For these tests I had to modify Patrick's version a bit to handle the new Ergolinear/Matrix layouts, clone the layouts and tests across, redo the database structure, etc., so a lot of "housekeeping" first.

Currently busy running the tests on Patrick's scoring, done 9 so far, and Zammux's "DSend" layout is doing rather well. Yours is beating Dvorak and Colemak.
Results on Den's scoring will be different.

After doing all tests on Patrick's scoring, need to run them all again on Den 1 scoring, and then on Den 3 scoring, if that has been finalised. Takes at least three days to do one full set of tests.

Must still redo the front-end linked to above, to handle new database structure. The four pages will all be on one page.

Offline Severe

  • Posts: 84
  • Location: Eastern US
  • HHKB Zealot
Re: Got any interesting layouts?
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 18 August 2017, 04:22:44 »
My brother uses a planck with the literal alphabetical layout. he averages 80WPM on in and I have no idea how
HHKB Pro 2 Black Lubed 55g
Logitech G502 (Gaming) Logitech MX Master 2 (Day to day)

Offline 4sStylZ

  • Posts: 25
Re: Got any interesting layouts?
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 23 August 2017, 01:37:54 »
Bépo ? It’s the french dvorak way layout.

                
Bépo user here : TM2030 black skin, Lenovo 0B47200 w/ trackpoint, Logitech K400 bépo-redneckified, G13, G512. Kensington Expert Trackball & Orbit, many Griffiti wrist-pads…

Offline davkol

  • Posts: 4774
  • Location: CZ
Re: Got any interesting layouts?
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 23 August 2017, 05:08:11 »
Speaking of that, here's an English layout from [1], based on Claude Marsan's work.



[1] Jan Eggers, Dominique Feillet, Steffen Kehl, Marc Oliver Wagner, Bernard Yannou, Optimization of the keyboard arrangement problem using an Ant Colony algorithm, European Journal of Operational Research, Volume 148, Issue 3, 2003, Pages 672-686, ISSN 0377-2217, http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S0377-2217(02)00489-7.

Offline 4sStylZ

  • Posts: 25
Re: Got any interesting layouts?
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 23 August 2017, 06:36:41 »
You have all this disposition here on the French bépo website wich are variation of Bépo : http://bepo.fr/wiki/Variantes_du_bépo

Some are very focused for typing in Occitan, Catalan or Esperanto like all of theses : http://bepo.fr/wiki/Utilisateur:Flavien21
                
Bépo user here : TM2030 black skin, Lenovo 0B47200 w/ trackpoint, Logitech K400 bépo-redneckified, G13, G512. Kensington Expert Trackball & Orbit, many Griffiti wrist-pads…