question to all vegans

[chyros]

So, even if you can do without the meat and everything... How do you do without the most important foodstuff in the entire world; milk?

I think I might actually off myself if I become lactose intolerant. Milk is the best thing in the universe.

[xondat]

There are many kind of variants such as Soya, almond, rice etc.

It just takes a bit of searching & replacing.

I personally have soya milk; recently started having olive spread over sunflower.

When eating out, I can usually just have pizza without the cheese (and a load of vegs to replace).

And Ben & Jerry's have just introduced vegan ice cream...

[tp4tissue]

Well the biggest problem to milk is the hormones and proteins

The casein protein in milk significantly increases the rate of cancer cell growth.

This is ontop of the growth hormones which do the same.


Cows in industrial milk production are often pregnant.  Milk extracted during this period has extremely high levels of animal estrogens and elevate insulin growth factor.

Outside of more dangerous things like breast and colon cancer,  the elevated hormone in milk is responsible for the majority of early balding , man bewb,  and reduced sperm count.

-and- Those are just the symptoms you can see.



The milk is also terrible for bones, because it and other animal products acidifies the blood.

United states has the highest rates of osteoporosis,   If milk was good for bones, this wouldn't be true, because the USA is the HIGHEST consumer of milk in the entire world.


Overall,  it's extremely unhealthy.

[digi]

One of my dreams is to suck the milk directly from a cow's utter

[clappingcactus]

So, even if you can do without the meat and everything... How do you do without the most important foodstuff in the entire world; milk?

I think I might actually off myself if I become lactose intolerant. Milk is the best thing in the universe.

I don't consume any dairy at all and I'm not vegan. What I can't do without are eggs. Need them for baking goodies and for breakfast...

[clappingcactus]

Well the biggest problem to milk is the hormones and proteins

The casein protein in milk significantly increase the rate of cancer cell growth.

This is ontop of the growth hormones which do the same.


Cows in industrial milk production are often pregnant.  Milk extracted during this period has extremely high levels animal estrogens which elevate insulin growth factor.

Outside of more dangerous things like breast and colon cancer,  the elevated hormone in milk is responsible for the majority of early balding , man bewb,  and reduced sperm count.

Those are just the symptoms you can see.



The milk is also terrible for bones, because it and other animal products acidifies the blood.

United states has the highest rates of osteoporosis,   If milk was good for bones, this wouldn't be true, because the USA is the HIGHEST consumer of milk in the entire world.


Overall,  it's extremely unhealthy.

lol, milk can be unhealthy, but certainly not for those reasons. Half of those studies have been debunked.

[tp4tissue]

lol, milk can be unhealthy, but certainly not for those reasons. Half of those studies have been debunked.

That is not true    clappingcactus

I am not trying to pick a fight with you clappin'.


But BEFORE becoming a hipster,  The only real fact checking I did was the basic rumors floating around..

Things like

--  Butter doesn't increase cholesterol

--  Eggs don't increase cholesterol

--  Milk is good for bones..

ETC..


And I was EXTREMELY reluctant to go Vegan..

There is a misconception that vegans all Start as animal lovers with militant fervor to end all suffering.

I believed all vegans were like this, and correctly despised them for arriving at their conclusion via emotion and not logic.



But when I did the fact checking myself..  It in many ways blew my mind..



I will admit to you right now, I don't care about animals what so ever,  I could care less for the planet..

If either of those things stood in my way,  I would raze both into submission..



I am not accusing you of succumbing to mere rumor..


But for me at least,  a big part of it,  before becoming vegan was,  I LOVED to hear how STEAK and EGGS were good for me,  BECAUSE I loved eating those things..


And for the longest time,  I was lulled by this subset of information..


I at least recommend you take the time to do some fact checking yourself.

[Shapey Fiend]

I only ever really put a little of it in tea and I've found any of the alternatives pretty disappointing for that purpose.

The quality of milk I've had anywhere other than Ireland has been pretty terrible. You can get relatively unprocessed ones here if you're prepared to pay 50 cent extra.

I drank unpasteurised milk as a kid in Irish college (sort of a language summer school in the middle of nowhere). Tons of cream in there of course so you wouldn't want to be going heavy on the stuff. I thought it was gross at first but going back to normal milk afterwards it just seemed like coloured water.

[clappingcactus]

lol, milk can be unhealthy, but certainly not for those reasons. Half of those studies have been debunked.

That is not true    clappingcactus

I am not trying to pick a fight with you clappin'.


But BEFORE becoming a hipster,  The only real fact checking I did was the basic rumors floating around..

Things like

Butter doesn't increase cholesterol

Eggs don't increase cholesterol

Milk is good for bones..

ETC..


And I was EXTREMELY reluctant to go Vegan..

There is a misconception that vegans all Start as animal lovers with militant fervor to end all suffering.

That was MY belief as well..


But when I did the fact checking myself..  It in many ways blew my mind..



I will admit to you right now, I don't care about animals what so ever,  I could care less for the planet..

If either of those things stood in my way,  I would raze both into submission..



I am not accusing you of succumbing to mere rumor..


But for me at least,  a big part of it,  before becoming vegan was,  I LOVED to hear how STEAK and EGGS were good for me,  BECAUSE I loved eating them..


And for the longest time,  I was lulled by this subset of information..


I at least recommend you take the time to do some fact checking yourself.

I'm not trying to pick a fight either. But you're still misinformed.

'Butter doesn't increase cholesterol, Eggs don't increase cholesterol'

Both of these are true statements, for example. Dietary cholestrol accounts for only 10% of the cholestrol content in your body. The remaining 90% is synthesized based on dozens of factors, not limited to frequency of your meals, your general exercise habits, your consumption quantities, the fat content of your meals, your body weight, your age etc.

You should absolutely always make the healthiest decisions you can, and the fact that you do is awesome. I'm not that great. I know why some things I eat are awful for me, but I still eat them as a life decision. But the studies you have done your research on are outdated since about ~2005. That's not your fault. That's the fault of poor scientific review and the motivation to publish controversial positive results. TP needs to download an update to his information, that's all.

[dante]

Lactose free milk is delicious but is a bit more expensive.  You can buy tablets that will neutralize the lactose problem for cheaper.

I'm not giving Vegan cheese a try because it sounds more processed that Kraft!

[tp4tissue]

I'm not trying to pick a fight either. But you're still misinformed.

'Butter doesn't increase cholesterol, Eggs don't increase cholesterol'

Both of these are true statements, for example. Dietary cholestrol accounts for only 10% of the cholestrol content in your body. The remaining 90% is synthesized based on dozens of factors, not limited to frequency of your meals, your general exercise habits, your consumption quantities, the fat content of your meals, your body weight, your age etc.

You should absolutely always make the healthiest decisions you can, and the fact that you do is awesome. I'm not that great. I know why some things I eat are awful for me, but I still eat them as a life decision. But the studies you have done your research on are outdated since about ~2005. That's not your fault. That's the fault of poor scientific review and the motivation to publish controversial positive results. TP needs to download an update to his information, that's all.

clappingcactus

This video is a short summation of the falsehood of the current PRO-egg  agenda..

The US supreme court itself came to the decision that the Egg-board's claims were False.

In fact, Eggs are not even legally allowed to be labeled using the word -Healthy-


This video covers the precise studies you are talking about debunking -cholesterol/egg link- _funded by the egg board.

The sources are up to date as late as 2013.

I've verified the listed sources for myself, but you are right to have doubts. and If you are here to truly BE-Healthy + Informed,  and  not just to win- an argument..

It really isn't too much effort to go through it..

--Sources:: LINK to sources,  --https://nutritionfacts.org/video/eggs-and-arterial-function/--


    DL Katz, MA Evans, H Nawaz, VY Njike, W Chan, BP Comerford, ML Hoxley. Egg consumption and endothelial function: A randomized controlled crossover trial. Int J Cardiol .2005 99(1):65 – 70.
    V Njike, Z Faridi, S Dutta, AL Gonzalez-Simon, DL Katz. Daily egg consumption in hyperlipidemic adults--effects on endothelial function and cardiovascular risk. Nutr J. 2010 9:28.
    PN Hopkins. Effects of dietery cholesterol on serum cholesterol: a meta-analysis and review. Am J Clin Nutr. 1992 55(6):1060-70.
    SC Lucan. Egg on their faces (probably not in their necks); the yolk of the tenuous cholesterol-to-plaque conclusion. Atherosclerosis. 2013 227(1):182- 183.
    JH O’Keefe Jr, L Cordain, WH Harris, RM Moe, R Vogel. Optimal Low-Density Lipoprotein Is 50 to 70 mg/dl: Lower Is Better and Physiologically Normal. J Am Coll Cardiol. 2004 43(11):2142-2146.
    D Steinberg. Thematic review series: The pathogenesis of atherosclerosis: An interpretive history of the cholesterol controversy, part III: Mechanistically defining the role of hyperlipidemia. J Lipid Res. 2005 46(10):2037-2051.
    JD Spence, DJA Jenkins, J Davignon. Egg yolk consumption, smoking and carotid plaque: Reply to letters to the Editor by Sean Lucan and T Dylan Olver et al. Atherosclerosis. 2013 227(1):189 – 191.

[Findecanor]

I think I could skip cow's milk if there was a vegan milk that is a buffer solution like cow's milk is. No soy/oat/rice/almond-based milk substitute I have tried acts that way.

I drink milk mostly in coffee. The way milk neutralises weak acids is how milk improves the taste of coffee (for me), making it taste less bitter.
Cow's milk is also the best remedy I have found for when you have had too much/strong chili.
Warm cow's milk with honey is also good for a sore throat, as the milk is a neutraliser, the milk encourages throat phlegm, and the honey is a mild antibiotic.

Cheese or milk chocolate, on the other hand... I would not want to be without them.

[ojrask]

Reminded me of this:

[tp4tissue]

Reminded me of this:

Hahahahahahaha..

Good post ojrask.

The problem with this type of videos,  it's only funny to vegans.. because we actually fact checked this and know it's real..



I'm very hopeful that the Veggies movement is going strong, and we should be off animal products by 2075


My heart goes out to the young people that will have to suffer in the interim..


But the Evil-Tp4 in me thinks.. This is a competitive advantage now that I know about veggie p0wer.


In fact,  you should probably recommend steak and eggs to all your enemies..

[Shapey Fiend]

[tp4tissue]

It's very scary how true this is..

In the end,  Think of the young people.. sigh.....


Parents of today, who are themselves addicted to the high-grease lifestyle,  are setting up their offsprings for major health problems.

Dietary behavior is taught.. so once a young person learns a certain way to eat, and adopt a certain flavor palate, That will be with him for the rest of his life.



-- sigh..............  what do guys,  what do....

[Shapey Fiend]

I'm in bizarre situation where my 3 year old son eats far healthier than I do. Goes mad for fruit and vegetables.

He'll of course badger me for sweets and icecreams, but then he only eats a little bit and then goes "Here, you have it" so I'm ending up eating even worse!

[tp4tissue]

I'm in bizarre situation where my 3 year old son eats far healthier than I do. Goes mad for fruit and vegetables.

He'll of course badger me for sweets and icecreams, but then he only eats a little bit and then goes "Here, you have it" so I'm ending up eating even worse!

Can't tell you how to parent,


But I guess the most unobtrusive comment would be.. 

---  Please reconsider current prejudices and societal confusion propagated by the meat industry. --


2/3 people in the western world have heart disease, 1 out of 4 people die from it..

[xtrafrood]

Dairy is great but I pity the fool that's around me after I've had a pint of of chocolate ice cream.

[tp4tissue]

Dairy is great but I pity the fool that's around me after I've had a pint of of chocolate ice cream.

It doesn't hurt right now....

But when it goes down......  oh boy...

[xtrafrood]

Dairy is great but I pity the fool that's around me after I've had a pint of of chocolate ice cream.

It doesn't hurt right now....

But when it goes down......  oh boy...

ikr, golly

[iri]

So, even if you can do without the meat and everything... How do you do without the most important foodstuff in the entire world; milk?

Easy peasy.

[futurecrime]

So, even if you can do without the meat and everything... How do you do without the most important foodstuff in the entire world; milk?

I think I might actually off myself if I become lactose intolerant. Milk is the best thing in the universe.

I thought I couldn't possibly do without cheese and eggs. Took about two weeks before I stopped craving them and not much longer before I started to find them quite unappealing. It's amazing how quickly your tastes can change. As far as milk goes I use oat milk on my muesli and soya milk in various other things. I drink tea black now though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tp4tissue]

So, even if you can do without the meat and everything... How do you do without the most important foodstuff in the entire world; milk?

I think I might actually off myself if I become lactose intolerant. Milk is the best thing in the universe.

I thought I couldn't possibly do without cheese and eggs. Took about two weeks before I stopped craving them and not much longer before I started to find them quite unappealing. It's amazing how quickly your tastes can change. As far as milk goes I use oat milk on my muesli and soya milk in various other things. I drink tea black now though.

For me the intrusive thoughts of greasy meaty foods have subsided.

But there are obvious triggers..


If I see a food commercial on the bloomberg ,  The fried-chicken neurons switch on in my brain.. and it tells me to put everything down, get in the car and drive to popeyes..



So, in everyway,  I still find all those foods appealing.. 

I've even watched every one of those recommended Animal farming documentaries like -earthlings- .


And yet, having built all of those (negative associations), I Still WANT to eat fried chicken..



I suppose it's like,  Heroin addiction,   yea , it takes a person down the spiral of demise, homelessness, being pimped, depression, destitution, loneliness..

But,  if you ask ANY heroin addict even after 20 years of sobriety,   they will tell you < Yes, I still want heroin >




Fried chicken is like that for me..

[chyros]

So, even if you can do without the meat and everything... How do you do without the most important foodstuff in the entire world; milk?

I think I might actually off myself if I become lactose intolerant. Milk is the best thing in the universe.

I thought I couldn't possibly do without cheese and eggs. Took about two weeks before I stopped craving them and not much longer before I started to find them quite unappealing. It's amazing how quickly your tastes can change. As far as milk goes I use oat milk on my muesli and soya milk in various other things. I drink tea black now though.

For me the intrusive thoughts of greasy meaty foods have subsided.

But there are obvious triggers..


If I see a food commercial on the bloomberg ,  The fried-chicken neurons switch on in my brain.. and it tells me to put everything down, get in the car and drive to popeyes..



So, in everyway,  I still find all those foods appealing.. 

I've even watched every one of those recommended Animal farming documentaries like -earthlings- .


And yet, having built all of those (negative associations), I Still WANT to eat fried chicken..



I suppose it's like,  Heroin addiction,   yea , it takes a person down the spiral of demise, homelessness, being pimped, depression, destitution, loneliness..

But,  if you ask ANY heroin addict even after 20 years of sobriety,   they will tell you < Yes, I still want heroin >




Fried chicken is like that for me..

Meat is nothing like heroin, I don't know where you keep coming up with these crazy comparisons .

[tp4tissue]

Meat is nothing like heroin, I don't know where you keep coming up with these crazy comparisons .

Meat specifically is not,  but Casomorphine is as addicting as morphine.. that's why people get addicted to Cheese..


But Overall.. when it comes to addiction, we're really just talking about ANY HABIT which has been continuously reinforced..  that cause ANY premature Bodily damage reducing average lifespan



So, continuous consumption of greasy foods, or any other hyperpalatables is classifiable as Addiction 

[tp4tissue]

So for example.. - a relatively young person is going bald -..   This is obviously detrimental to his future outlook.. 

We figure out that eating greasy dairy foods greatly contributes to early baldness.

This young person is educated on this fact..

Yet, He continues to eat the same way, because it makes him feel good/ relieves the stress of going bald..


THIS is a (mild) Addiction Spiral..


The cascade effects on this person's life is LARGE,  but there is no immediate danger..

[chyros]

Meat is nothing like heroin, I don't know where you keep coming up with these crazy comparisons .

Meat specifically is not,  but Casomorphine is as addicting as morphine.. that's why people get addicted to Cheese..


But Overall.. when it comes to addiction, we're really just talking about ANY HABIT which has been continuously reinforced..  that cause ANY premature Bodily damage reducing average lifespan



So, continuous consumption of greasy foods, or any other hyperpalatables is classifiable as Addiction

I think you're far too eager to assume all this crap here. Scientific studies on casomorphin are quite limited.

[tp4tissue]

Meat is nothing like heroin, I don't know where you keep coming up with these crazy comparisons .

Meat specifically is not,  but Casomorphine is as addicting as morphine.. that's why people get addicted to Cheese..


But Overall.. when it comes to addiction, we're really just talking about ANY HABIT which has been continuously reinforced..  that cause ANY premature Bodily damage reducing average lifespan



So, continuous consumption of greasy foods, or any other hyperpalatables is classifiable as Addiction

I think you're far too eager to assume all this crap here. Scientific studies on casomorphin are quite limited.

Well... i agree that the research is not all the way there yet on casomorphin

But Hyperpalatable addiction, which runs in parallel to dairy product consumption IS verified..


The process and symptoms of addiction is the same..


One eats himself into an earlier than average grave,  DESPITE knowing that he's doing so.

[iLLucionist]

rice milk or coconot milk... close enough for me

As a matter of fact, when I had to cut gluten and lactose, I made a beef stew with potato mash all French way for the last time.

Beef stew was with butter and beer, potato mash was with butter, cream, and milk.

It was too "full" for me, so I really don't miss the creaminess anylonger.

[chyros]

Meat is nothing like heroin, I don't know where you keep coming up with these crazy comparisons .

Meat specifically is not,  but Casomorphine is as addicting as morphine.. that's why people get addicted to Cheese..


But Overall.. when it comes to addiction, we're really just talking about ANY HABIT which has been continuously reinforced..  that cause ANY premature Bodily damage reducing average lifespan



So, continuous consumption of greasy foods, or any other hyperpalatables is classifiable as Addiction

I think you're far too eager to assume all this crap here. Scientific studies on casomorphin are quite limited.

Well... i agree that the research is not all the way there yet on casomorphin

But Hyperpalatable addiction, which runs in parallel to dairy product consumption IS verified..


The process and symptoms of addiction is the same..


One eats himself into an earlier than average grave,  DESPITE knowing that he's doing so.

Your argument still makes no sense. So it's not really addictive, and there's very little established info on the dangers. Exactly what is the problem here?

[tp4tissue]

Your argument still makes no sense. So it's not really addictive, and there's very little established info on the dangers. Exactly what is the problem here?

They've done brainscans of overweight people. they have the same dampened dopa signaling as drug addicts.

the danger,  2/3 people have heart disease.. 

[iLLucionist]

Your argument still makes no sense. So it's not really addictive, and there's very little established info on the dangers. Exactly what is the problem here?

They've done brainscans of overweight people. they have the same dampened dopa signaling as drug addicts.

the danger,  2/3 people have heart disease..

even though i would agree that cutting on processed foods is probably a good idea, you can also become overweight from a "vegan" diet.

Try eating dat vegan everything, made from soy and wrong fatties, like vegan cheese, soy everything, soy milk, soy deserts.

And a lot of vegans compensate by starting to eat more salt or sugar.

It doesn't HAVE to be that way, vegan can be done right of course. But "becoming vegan" does not necessarily help you lose weight INSTANTLY.

Especially not if you were already addicted to blisspoint, which you will then try to get back in a vegan manner.

[tp4tissue]

Your argument still makes no sense. So it's not really addictive, and there's very little established info on the dangers. Exactly what is the problem here?

They've done brainscans of overweight people. they have the same dampened dopa signaling as drug addicts.

the danger,  2/3 people have heart disease..

even though i would agree that cutting on processed foods is probably a good idea, you can also become overweight from a "vegan" diet.

Try eating dat vegan everything, made from soy and wrong fatties, like vegan cheese, soy everything, soy milk, soy deserts.

And a lot of vegans compensate by starting to eat more salt or sugar.

It doesn't HAVE to be that way, vegan can be done right of course. But "becoming vegan" does not necessarily help you lose weight INSTANTLY.

Especially not if you were already addicted to blisspoint, which you will then try to get back in a vegan manner.

This is correct..


In fact,  THE MAJORITY  of Vegans are Doing-It-Wrong.

They are eating the standard american diet, Only without killing cows..


For example.. There are Vegans eating Piles of oreo cookies..  French Fries, Onion Rings..



The key to health is partially 100% Veggie,   But the vital secondary component is 10% calories from Fat.


If you adhere to BOTH those limiters..  Your ascension to Veggie Greatness is Assured..