Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 07 April 2017, 22:37:21
Today I bring to you yet another 96-key keyboard; however, this one is a little bit different than your run of the mill MX-only 96-key keyboard. That's right, this one would support Alps switches! With DSA Lightcycle finally coming to fruition... perhaps it is finally time for Alps to get some 96-key options.
The goal of this project would be to support all of the RS96 layout options for Cherry MX switches as well as AT101, AT101W and "DSA Lightcycle" layouts for Alps. The switches would share the same PCB but the plates would vary from layout to layout, with a universal Cherry option and individual plates for each of the aforementioned Alps layouts. The case would be a unibody case made from aluminum with a huge weight slot on the bottom (weights would probably available in stainless and brass) and two acrylic diffuser inserts. I would aim to have Red, Blue, Black and Gunmetal anodization options (and perhaps Silver/Gold if there is enough interest).
So, without further ado, here are some renders of the case (last updated 04/21/17):
(http://i.imgur.com/MjEOmxb.jpg)
And here is a picture of the prototype and a link to the entire album (https://imgur.com/a/gyst2) (last updated 06/28/17):
(http://i.imgur.com/6mteMMa.jpg)
Side View:
(http://i.imgur.com/Rg89zqP.jpg)
Bottom:
(http://i.imgur.com/OWKYnQ4.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/0VmP2Lc.jpg)
Plate fitting into the top piece:
(http://i.imgur.com/T2wcDYD.jpg)
This revision stands at 36.17mm at it's tallest point and it is at an 8° incline. It also features a top-mounted plate.
And here are some renders of the PCB:
Front:
(http://i.imgur.com/5c23Vxd.png)
Back:
(http://i.imgur.com/tx7yR4o.png)
Note: The final version will in-switch lighting for MX for all of the switches and for the Alps lock lights (if possible). It will also have PCB mount stabilizer cutouts. I will NOT offer SMD lighting support for MX switches.
Update [04/21/17]: The prototype PCB came in, pictures are here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=88769.msg2406565#msg2406565).
Let me know if you would be interested in something like this. Cherry fans, now is your chance to help the Alps community get a cool thing and, in the process, get a cool board!
FAQs:
Do you have a pricing estimate yet?
No. I would be aiming to keep the price under $375 for the base kit. Hopefully lower but no guarantees. I am waiting on quotes for anodization and PCB fabbing before I commit to anything.
What would the MOQ be?
50 ideally, 25 might be do-able but pricier!
Do you have a PCB yet?
I have one in development.
Are you qualified to make a PCB and run this GB?
Yes, probably. My background is in Computer Engineering and I have run GBs before.
What do you mean by AT101/AT101W layouts?
Probably something like this (but with an Alps-correct CapsLock key):
More
Layout: (http://i.imgur.com/aTUGVJw.png)
Example Plate: (http://i.imgur.com/4hNTDTR.png)
Example Plate: (http://i.imgur.com/4hNTDTR.png)
What about a "DSA Lightcycle" layout?
Probably something like this:
More
(http://i.imgur.com/TWfjsly.png)
Namely because I get the sense it is what most people would want out of a 96-key Alps keyboard.
My favorite layout for Alps is not here, what do I do? or The RSIII does not support my favorite MX layout, what do I do?
Tell me! I would be happy to try and accomadate it.
Would you consider adding support for AEK keycaps?
If I can figure out a way to support their wonky function key row... maybe? *grumbles something about Apple just having to Think Differently*
What are you going to call this... thing?
Options include the Wingman (this board is my wingman, it helps me pick up chicks that are just my type *ba dum chk*), the Stageboard or something I will come up with in bed at 2 AM on a later date. Open to suggestions (within reason).
The case is ugly. I hate it. Will you do something about that?
Um, first, please try to give me specific reasons why you hate it. Also, I will probably have a design engineer do a final pass over it to make it extra pretty.
Where are you going to manufacture the board?
I am aiming to have all of the case manufacturing and anodization done in the USA. Ideally, the PCB will also be made and assembled in the USA as well but the pricing will determine who I choose on that front.
Moar pictures pls
That is not even a question... but I would happily oblige.
🍒+⛰️=💞
Old Renders:
More
(http://i.imgur.com/WhOQ4sX.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/lkwEV75.gif)
This is just a first attempt mock-up and it doesn't include the diffuser inserts and PCB/Plate mounts. The inserts will slide into slots in the sides and screw in from the top. Why? Because invisible screws are the best kind of screws and the manufacturing costs are lower this way. Here is a little mock-up of the concept:
See the new two-part design.
(http://i.imgur.com/lkwEV75.gif)
More
(http://i.imgur.com/OiygTMQ.png)
[/s]See the new two-part design.
Post by: SJHL on Fri, 07 April 2017, 22:42:13
Post by: neon_tom on Fri, 07 April 2017, 22:48:10
Post by: ErgoMacros on Fri, 07 April 2017, 23:26:37
He's built one 122 key keyboard PCB, and is working on another. Doesn't have your fancy case, but there's a lot of discussion about getting Alps and MX on the same PCB. I suspect well worth the read if this is your first combo board.
As I recall there are a number of limitations & compromises that needed to be done.
Very best of luck!
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 07 April 2017, 23:40:18
There's another interesting thread here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=86751.0 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=86751.0) by samwisekoi.It's my first combo board on this scale but I've tinkered with it on a smaller scale. I'm optimistic that I can make something work here... even if I make to make some compromises.
He's built one 122 key keyboard PCB, and is working on another. Doesn't have your fancy case, but there's a lot of discussion about getting Alps and MX on the same PCB. I suspect well worth the read if this is your first combo board.
As I recall there are a number of limitations & compromises that needed to be done.
In any case, thanks for the information! I'll be sure to read through it at some point.
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sat, 08 April 2017, 01:07:20
I am still waiting on my ZZ96 and but would much prefer a 96-key board with Alps, so you have my attention.
Post by: Wingpad on Sat, 08 April 2017, 01:34:13
If you use input club's universal Alps/MX footprint, we can unoffically hotswap alps switches without installing sockets etc. This could be very appealing to those trying alps out for the first time as if they don't like them they can be removed and Cherry switches can be soldered back in.That's unofficially/officially the plan unless I have to change things later on down the line. I don't see why I would have to switch footprints but, in case I do, I'm not going to make any promises. Expect a barebones PCB soonish.
Post by: Traveler on Sat, 08 April 2017, 10:15:22
Post by: Wingpad on Sat, 08 April 2017, 20:54:36
What is the angle for this case going to be?Right now it is at 9.1° but this is just a mock-up so it can still be changed. I know most boards are in the 8-10° range (with Duck's being at 11°, IIRC) so I aimed to be smack in the middle. After all, the middle is a nice place to be. What would you [guys] prefer?
Post by: kmba on Sat, 08 April 2017, 22:07:16
Post by: Traveler on Sun, 09 April 2017, 10:25:12
Right now it is at 9.1° but this is just a mock-up so it can still be changed. I know most boards are in the 8-10° range (with Duck's being at 11°, IIRC) so I aimed to be smack in the middle. After all, the middle is a nice place to be. What would you [guys] prefer?
I'm not too picky, but I do know I'm not used to typing at a steep angle. So I think you have a good mindset here. 9.1° sounds like a pretty good middle-ground!
Post by: kawasaki161 on Sun, 09 April 2017, 11:36:31
Right now it is at 9.1° but this is just a mock-up so it can still be changed. I know most boards are in the 8-10° range (with Duck's being at 11°, IIRC) so I aimed to be smack in the middle. After all, the middle is a nice place to be. What would you [guys] prefer?
7-8° would be really nice. HHKB is somewhere around 7,5-8°, definitely over 7, as I've put it next to a board with 7° and the 7° one had visibly less angle.
Post by: Wingpad on Sun, 09 April 2017, 12:06:45
7-8° would be really nice. HHKB is somewhere around 7,5-8°, definitely over 7, as I've put it next to a board with 7° and the 7° one had visibly less angle.Interesting, I would be OK with trying to imitate the angle of the HHKB. Throughout my keyboarding experiences, I have owned three HHKBs and found their typing angle to be pleasant. Would anyone be able to provide a more exact measurement of the HHKB's angle for me? I would measure it myself but, lo, I sold my last one a while ago. Google didn't turn anything up either :p
EDIT: Ran a little calculation, changing the board to an 8° angle would change the height of the case from 40.25mm to 37.82mm. Not a huge difference but just thought it was worth mentioning.
Post by: Wingpad on Sun, 09 April 2017, 18:03:56
(http://i.imgur.com/9FNIVUh.png)
Post by: Spaceman1200 on Mon, 10 April 2017, 08:43:16
Post by: romevi on Mon, 10 April 2017, 11:50:24
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 10 April 2017, 12:26:38
(http://i.imgur.com/u7ibBL0.png)
Whadd'ya think, guys? I'm not sure if I personally like the new side profile but I'm trying to think of ways to make it more interesting. Plus, the transitions between the rear fillets are a bit awkward.
I also sent a prototype PCB off to be fabbed just to test some layout things. It doesn't have all of the compatibility options but it should be helpful for testing.
(http://i.imgur.com/qViZpl7.png)
One issue I'm noticing is that we can only have Alps or Cherry style Stepped CapLock with the IC club footprint and some finagling will be required to get the RS96's bottom row right. I'll figure something out, though. Otherwise, I think it's off to a good start.
Post by: romevi on Mon, 10 April 2017, 12:31:41
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 10 April 2017, 12:38:26
The angle is nice, but seems kinda high, no? Maybe it's just the way the render shows the side profile.For reference, it's about 3mm taller than an RS96 at the moment. I'm planning on cutting it down a smidge to bring it closer to the Redscarf.
EDIT: I did something really simple and I think I fixed my side profile concerns.
(http://i.imgur.com/UKM2Kyi.png)
Post by: lecorsair on Mon, 10 April 2017, 15:01:05
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 10 April 2017, 15:05:16
Any idea what firmware you will be using? Specifically, will it support programability for Mac special keys/media/sleep etc...?I'll likely be using a fork of QMK or TMK, I believe both support Mac's special/media/sleep keys but you may correct me there.
Post by: Traveler on Mon, 10 April 2017, 21:48:22
Whadd'ya think, guys?
Bit hard to judge without seeing some other angles like the back, back/side diagonal, and underneath. But I do like what I see.
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 10 April 2017, 22:46:23
Bit hard to judge without seeing some other angles like the back, back/side diagonal, and underneath. But I do like what I see.Just added additional angles to the first post :thumb:
Post by: jchan94 on Mon, 10 April 2017, 22:57:22
whats that bottom part used for? Just wondering as you can't really see it, nor does it look like something can fit there.
Just wondering! :) What's the plans for bumpons or feet and such? :O
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 10 April 2017, 23:14:29
whats that bottom part used for? Just wondering as you can't really see it, nor does it look like something can fit there.It's for a weight. The weight fits in the bottom and screws in through the top. The acrylic is covering up the screw holes for it in the renders but, if you look closely, you can kind of see them. Here is a rendering of the weight itself:
(http://i.imgur.com/GdDSnt8.png)
And what you can expect to see with the weight in place:
(http://i.imgur.com/WLHxJKY.png)
I'll probably come up with a more interesting design for the weight as we go along. I'm just trying to get the general idea of the case together at the moment.
What's the plans for bumpons or feet and such?Tentatively planning on rubber feet, if you look at the rendering of the old case (http://imgur.com/lkwEV75) you can see there were places for them to attach. I just haven't had a chance to add them back to the new design yet. It will kind of be like the Duck Viper (http://i.imgur.com/PNJBoM0.jpg) in this regard. I also need to figure out whether or not the reset button will be externally accessible and, if so, how it will. I am leaning towards having a software-based solution a la the Redscarf boards, though (hold down a certain key while plugging it in to enter reprogramming mode).
Post by: Data on Tue, 11 April 2017, 09:44:06
You might want to rethink your strategy for placing the Teensy over switch holes in the PCB. Your current design makes it very difficult (impossible?) to solder either the Teensy or the switches on the reverse side, which ever gets installed second. Also the center mounting peg on the switches continues through the PCB for about a millimeter on the other side so keep that in mind -- you can get around this by using the included spacers on the Teensy but you'd have to incorporate that in your design pretty early.
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 11 April 2017, 09:59:30
You might want to rethink your strategy for placing the Teensy over switch holes in the PCB. Your current design makes it very difficult (impossible?) to solder either the Teensy or the switches on the reverse side, which ever gets installed second. Also the center mounting peg on the switches continues through the PCB for about a millimeter on the other side so keep that in mind -- you can get around this by using the included spacers on the Teensy but you'd have to incorporate that in your design pretty early.Thanks for the tip but, fret not, I wholly intend to switch to a SMD mounted MCU in the near future. This PCB revision is exclusively for my testing purposes, haha. Nevertheless, having played around with a Let's Split (https://gist.github.com/nicinabox/3582fc89470a3f4efc9ed194f12fabfb), I'm optimistic that I'll be able to get the Teensy on there, one way or another.
Post by: Data on Tue, 11 April 2017, 11:18:43
I noticed your acrylic(?) spacer -- awesome. What are your plans for lighting?
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 11 April 2017, 11:27:07
Nice. That is definitely the way to go.For sure, especially on a kit with a $400-450 price tag. Nothing but the best for you guys, haha.
I noticed your acrylic(?) spacer -- awesome. What are your plans for lighting?Yes, it will likely be some sort of frosted acrylic. I am planning on using RGB underlighting a la the ZZ96/RS96. As for switch lighting support, I am planning to support MX but that is not guaranteed at the moment. There are a few things I have to figure out first. I would love to support Alps but that seems pretty unlikely, I will look into it, though.
Post by: Data on Tue, 11 April 2017, 11:31:28
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 11 April 2017, 11:37:54
Well since many of us probably won't get to be part of the Lightsaver V3 buy you can probably expect a decent level of interest for this board. Not that your design isn't as appealing as Lightsaver, just that it's the de facto standard for 96-key boards at the moment. :DThere's a reason I am starting this now, haha. Ideally, I will be able to capture some of the interest in the Lightsaver and channel it into this. That and now that I have a reasonably flexible Alps keyset (or, rather, I soon will), I want a board to put it on that'll make it shine.
Post by: Traveler on Tue, 11 April 2017, 20:29:22
Bit hard to judge without seeing some other angles like the back, back/side diagonal, and underneath. But I do like what I see.Just added additional angles to the first post :thumb:
Looking nice! Your concepts appear to be coming among very well. Exciting to watch it unfold.
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 14 April 2017, 01:57:59
(http://i.imgur.com/sWmOxlb.png)
I also put a little render together of the board with a plate in place:
(http://i.imgur.com/tnyVB6I.png)
Post by: Delirious on Fri, 14 April 2017, 08:58:03
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 14 April 2017, 16:34:22
Lips are not fat enough, need more bezels in my life. Let's set it apart even more with more bezels.When does more bezels become too much bezels? The Model F? I've honestly considered adding a bit more bezel to the top and bottom to give it a look closer to the Model F (a cutout on the bottom and the extruded bar on the top) but I thought it would be going too far. I think most people prefer skinnier bezels but I really don't know :p
Post by: Delirious on Fri, 14 April 2017, 16:55:40
Lips are not fat enough, need more bezels in my life. Let's set it apart even more with more bezels.When does more bezels become too much bezels? The Model F? I've honestly considered adding a bit more bezel to the top and bottom to give it a look closer to the Model F (a cutout on the bottom and the extruded bar on the top) but I thought it would be going too far. I think most people prefer skinnier bezels but I really don't know :p
It's mostly for my own selfish reason :-X
The Monarch has massive bezels and it is glorious. I also like to tramp stamp my board with a little vintage Apple logo, so I need that fat bezels :thumb:
(http://i.imgur.com/ur68WbE.jpg?1)
Post by: kawasaki161 on Fri, 14 April 2017, 16:58:55
Lips are not fat enough, need more bezels in my life. Let's set it apart even more with more bezels.When does more bezels become too much bezels? The Model F? I've honestly considered adding a bit more bezel to the top and bottom to give it a look closer to the Model F (a cutout on the bottom and the extruded bar on the top) but I thought it would be going too far. I think most people prefer skinnier bezels but I really don't know :p
While you are at it you can also make it top mount ;) :thumb:
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 14 April 2017, 17:02:16
It's mostly for my own selfish reason :-XAh, OK. Wellll this board doesn't exactly support AEK keycaps so you'd kind of be out of luck there. Namely because of the wonky rotated F keys that Apple boards tote.
The Monarch has massive bezels and it is glorious. I also like to tramp stamp my board with a little vintage Apple logo, so I need that fat bezels
While you are at it you can also make it top mount ;) :thumb:Top Mount... how so? I would call this current revision "top mounting" since the plate/pcb go into the top and not through the bottom. Unless you meant having a separate top that mounts over an extended portion of the plate?
Post by: kawasaki161 on Fri, 14 April 2017, 17:18:20
While you are at it you can also make it top mount ;) :thumb:Top Mount... how so? I would call this current revision "top mounting" since the plate/pcb go into the top and not through the bottom. Unless you meant having a separate top that mounts over an extended portion of the plate?
I mean the plate mounting into the case instead of the PCB mounting into the case (which is called tray mounted). It's the way all the big customs are made, and imo feels a lot nicer.
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 14 April 2017, 17:20:40
Ah, well if I just make the standoffs a bit taller and holes in the PCB a bit larger, I should be able to do it 😀While you are at it you can also make it top mount ;) :thumb:Top Mount... how so? I would call this current revision "top mounting" since the plate/pcb go into the top and not through the bottom. Unless you meant having a separate top that mounts over an extended portion of the plate?
I mean the plate mounting into the case instead of the PCB mounting into the case (which is called tray mounted). It's the way all the big customs are made, and imo feels a lot nicer.
Post by: kawasaki161 on Fri, 14 April 2017, 17:52:55
Ah, well if I just make the standoffs a bit taller and holes in the PCB a bit larger, I should be able to do it 😀While you are at it you can also make it top mount ;) :thumb:Top Mount... how so? I would call this current revision "top mounting" since the plate/pcb go into the top and not through the bottom. Unless you meant having a separate top that mounts over an extended portion of the plate?
I mean the plate mounting into the case instead of the PCB mounting into the case (which is called tray mounted). It's the way all the big customs are made, and imo feels a lot nicer.
If you keep the same mounting points it won't feel much different. Usually the plate has it's mounts above the highest and below the lowest row, so the rows can flex evenly while the columns feel more or less the same throughout the whole board. If you can make cutouts for the standoffs in the PCB and only place the standoffs at the very edge (only top and bottom) it should kinda work, but the plate mounting to the top is the cleaner solution imo (would require more bezel though.)
Post by: Wingpad on Sat, 15 April 2017, 02:06:04
Alright, so I was working on the concept for a top-mounting plate and here's what I've come up with so far:
More
(http://i.imgur.com/6AP4ds1.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/DgrJLQR.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/pf1ty49.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/pm0NJu7.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/DgrJLQR.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/pf1ty49.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/pm0NJu7.png)
And a render from the top with the switch mounts cut:
More
(http://i.imgur.com/WLKQGNF.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/Mgmajoo.png)
(Yes, I know the stabilizers are wrong for Alps. This is just a test plate)
(http://i.imgur.com/Mgmajoo.png)
(Yes, I know the stabilizers are wrong for Alps. This is just a test plate)
I haven't gotten the measurements quite right yet, added all of the mounts to the top casing or finished the board's bottom part (it would match the current renders) but I'm just trying to test the waters with this. It has fatter bezels and the plate screws into the bottom part directly - not the PCB. The top now screws into the bottom part with screw holes along the sides, below the diffuser. Since most boards have screws on the bottom, I thought trying them on the sides would be interesting. It would be easy enough to move them to the bottom, though.
EDIT: Well, given the lack of responses, I'm definitely going back to the original design. I liked it better myself and just tried these fatter bezels, side mounted screws and the weirdly shaped plate as an experiment. Expect a thinner top-mounted plate soon.
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 19 April 2017, 01:20:58
Anyway, here are some renders of the new top case. I'm still working on adjusting the bottom case because now I have to figure out how to screw the top into it... but I'll sort something out.
(http://i.imgur.com/aoqgBWv.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/gK1pZU0.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/vef8mjv.png)
I also got in some of the test PCBs. Now, you'll have to pardon the mismatched keycaps (I just raided my spare parts bin)... but I did put this together:
(http://i.imgur.com/eVTn8kR.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ZhLRVa3.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/0hV3pbQ.jpg)
Does it look horrible with all of those keys? Does it feel terrible with its dampened creams and blacks? Does it need a proper 7u spacebar? Yes. But it is a ray of hope for the future.
Post by: duynguyenle on Wed, 19 April 2017, 03:24:06
THESE WERE EXPERIMENTAL RENDERS, PLEASE IGNORE.
Alright, so I was working on the concept for a top-mounting plate and here's what I've come up with so far:MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/6AP4ds1.png)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/DgrJLQR.png)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/pf1ty49.png)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/pm0NJu7.png)
And a render from the top with the switch mounts cut:MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/WLKQGNF.png)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/Mgmajoo.png)
(Yes, I know the stabilizers are wrong for Alps. This is just a test plate)
I haven't gotten the measurements quite right yet, added all of the mounts to the top casing or finished the board's bottom part (it would match the current renders) but I'm just trying to test the waters with this. It has fatter bezels and the plate screws into the bottom part directly - not the PCB. The top now screws into the bottom part with screw holes along the sides, below the diffuser. Since most boards have screws on the bottom, I thought trying them on the sides would be interesting. It would be easy enough to move them to the bottom, though.
EDIT: Well, given the lack of responses, I'm definitely going back to the original design. I liked it better myself and just tried these fatter bezels, side mounted screws and the weirdly shaped plate as an experiment. Expect a thinner top-mounted plate soon.
This is the right idea, but the plate looks very odd with those oblique angles, so you should perhaps consider just straight lines and filleted corners near the screw tabs
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 19 April 2017, 09:10:17
This is the right idea, but the plate looks very odd with those oblique angles, so you should perhaps consider just straight lines and filleted corners near the screw tabsThe choice to have somewhat peculiar angles was intentional, I wanted the plate to look odd. That being said, I really have no interest in pursuing that design any further. I prefer smaller bezels and the more I think about it, the less I like the side screws.
Post by: excluisve on Wed, 19 April 2017, 23:06:58
it seems a simply 96 key
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 19 April 2017, 23:34:39
it seems a simply 96 keyYes, it is simply a 96-key. This one is special, however, since it has Alps support (no other 96-key has supported Alps as far as I know)!
Here are the new renders of the board, updated to support a top-mounted plate:
(http://i.imgur.com/rqAC3NF.png)
Side View:
(http://i.imgur.com/ZKzZ4Na.png)
Side View Cutaway (showing that the plate is now affixed to the top part of the case):
(http://i.imgur.com/qOnufQt.png)
Bottom (note, I haven't added the weight mount yet):
(http://i.imgur.com/41Kyknr.png)
Post by: digisax on Thu, 20 April 2017, 12:21:08
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 21 April 2017, 16:09:23
If there's enough interest, I would like to try to prototype the case soon so we can have a working demo unit :)
Post by: mustardgreens on Tue, 02 May 2017, 20:30:26
Please also petition SP to make Alps PBT blanks :)
Post by: ns90 on Tue, 02 May 2017, 22:22:05
Post by: ChitownM2 on Wed, 03 May 2017, 21:09:18
Post by: hikasaki on Sun, 07 May 2017, 21:38:01
Post by: Wingpad on Sun, 07 May 2017, 21:44:27
Will there be a brass weight insert and different plate color options? I wanna do a black and gold theme.Yes, there was a typo in the OP. It should have said 'brass' not 'bronze.' I have corrected it now. All of the final anodization options for the case should be available for the plate as well.
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 16 May 2017, 00:07:17
Post by: Radlife on Tue, 16 May 2017, 00:49:21
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 16 May 2017, 01:03:19
Just as an update, I ordered the Rev2 PCBs and I'm currently having the prototype fabbed. I should have an update by the end of the month.
Where will the USB port be located be located on the final PCB design? I have NOS Blue Alps waiting for a new home :p keep up the good work!
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 16 May 2017, 01:26:02
Probably on the left side where it is now unless there's a lot of backlash around it. Right now it's between the ESC and F1 keys.Just as an update, I ordered the Rev2 PCBs and I'm currently having the prototype fabbed. I should have an update by the end of the month.
Where will the USB port be located be located on the final PCB design? I have NOS Blue Alps waiting for a new homekeep up the good work!
Post by: laughatpain on Tue, 16 May 2017, 01:27:24
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 16 May 2017, 01:30:35
Will the weight insert be a plate only visible when opening up the board or will it be visible through the bottom like the X60.It's visible on the bottom, the current renders show how it will appear unless things change.
Post by: laughatpain on Tue, 16 May 2017, 01:46:46
Post by: ipreferpie on Tue, 16 May 2017, 01:50:28
Also, will the PCB be compatible with ZZ96 or Lightsaver cases?
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 16 May 2017, 01:52:08
Really glad to see a new alps custom layout arise. Only problem I forsee is caps for a short shift and arrow cluster. Depending on the timing and price, I'd be in for one.Well... soon we'll have DSA lightcycle and granite... which leads me into:
Was wondering will the stabilizer cutouts be compatible with MX type stabs? I think quite a few will be using it with the upcoming DSA Granite and Hyperfuse sets.Yes! Of course. That's part of why I'm doing this.
Also, will the PCB be compatible with ZZ96 or Lightsaver cases?No, it's a new design that isn't compatible with anything else (as far as I know).
Post by: MandrewDavis on Tue, 16 May 2017, 01:58:59
Was wondering will the stabilizer cutouts be compatible with MX type stabs? I think quite a few will be using it with the upcoming DSA Granite and Hyperfuse sets.
Also, will the PCB be compatible with ZZ96 or Lightsaver cases?
It would be nice to see the PCB fit in the LightSaver V1/V2 and ZZ96 cases. The new Matias PBT keycaps (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45483.msg2413969#msg2413969) will be compatible with costar and alps stabilizers so that may be something to consider?
Post by: laughatpain on Tue, 16 May 2017, 02:01:44
Really glad to see a new alps custom layout arise. Only problem I forsee is caps for a short shift and arrow cluster. Depending on the timing and price, I'd be in for one.Well... soon we'll have DSA lightcycle and granite... which leads me into:
But.. but :-[ DSA. DSA Lightcycle was pretty pricey for full compatibility, iirc 270 for all the keys.
Post by: Wingpad on Tue, 16 May 2017, 02:04:20
It would be nice to see the PCB fit in the LightSaver V1/V2 and ZZ96 cases. The new Matias PBT keycaps (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45483.msg2413969#msg2413969) will be compatible with costar and alps stabilizers so that may be something to consider?I don't own a Lightsaver or ZZ96 so I have no way to take measurements for them, haha. I'm planning to support all of the stabilizers that I can but since the Matias stabilizers won't be available for a while I don't want to count on them for this.
But.. but :-[ DSA. DSA Lightcycle was pretty pricey for full compatibility, iirc 270 for all the keys.That's fair. Well, you can always use one of the more standard layouts. Plus, you can mix and match among all of the Alps keysets, IBM 5140s and a number of TaiHao boards have a 1.75u RShift.
Post by: hikasaki on Mon, 22 May 2017, 14:29:01
I've noticed the lighting are more evenly distributed with an white PCB versus Black one, especially, without an reflective panel.
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 22 May 2017, 15:02:29
Any chance the PCB can be white to further accentuate the lighting through the acrylic?The prototype PCBs are, in fact, white. I would be OK with using it for the final color but my only complaints with White PCBs (in general) are that they tend to show soldering marks more clearly.
I've noticed the lighting are more evenly distributed with an white PCB versus Black one, especially, without an reflective panel.
Here is a picture of the prototype PCB:
(http://i.imgur.com/zjx3uA9.png)
Post by: hikasaki on Tue, 23 May 2017, 09:43:14
Post by: kablekill on Wed, 07 June 2017, 05:48:32
Post by: Data on Wed, 07 June 2017, 06:45:18
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 07 June 2017, 06:50:17
I could see myself very interested in this board. Any updates on this at the moment?The prototype is being anodized so it should be shipped my way within a week. I'm waiting on it before ordering the next round of test PCBs to physically verify everything first. The PCBs will then take another week or so after that. So it's moving along, just a bit slower than I had hoped. Hopefully I'll have everything put together by the end of the month.
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 28 June 2017, 00:26:24
Post by: E.E.L. Ambiense on Wed, 28 June 2017, 09:58:13
Post by: ipreferpie on Wed, 28 June 2017, 12:12:51
Post by: hikasaki on Wed, 28 June 2017, 16:17:45
The prototype came in, here (https://imgur.com/a/gyst2) is an album with some pictures. Let me know what you guys think :)
She's a beauty! Got a name?
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 28 June 2017, 16:20:34
Got a name?Going with 19//96 I think, for a few reasons. The keyboard is a 96-key keyboard. The Xerox Docutech that donated the switches to make my build feasible was built in 1996. The slashes are a reference to the top-row keys of a Xerox Docutech keyboard, since they feature similar slashes. And, finally, I was born in 1996. It fared pretty well in the polls so I think it will work :)
Post by: romevi on Wed, 28 June 2017, 16:29:24
Hoping not to miss out.
Post by: kawasaki161 on Wed, 28 June 2017, 17:22:06
Were you able to get it manufactured in the US or did you have to get it done somewhere else?
Post by: hikasaki on Wed, 28 June 2017, 18:11:57
Damn, that prototype is sexy af.I'm curious as well
Were you able to get it manufactured in the US or did you have to get it done somewhere else?
I can dig thatGot a name?Going with 19//96 I think, for a few reasons. The keyboard is a 96-key keyboard. The Xerox Docutech that donated the switches to make my build feasible was built in 1996. The slashes are a reference to the top-row keys of a Xerox Docutech keyboard, since they feature similar slashes. And, finally, I was born in 1996. It fared pretty well in the polls so I think it will work :)
Post by: Wingpad on Thu, 29 June 2017, 15:09:21
Were you able to get it manufactured in the US or did you have to get it done somewhere else?Unfortunately, I had to do it elsewhere, prototyping costs in the states are very high. Once/if I get funded (via the Group Buy), I will have prototypes fabbed in the US to test the final design, domestic producer and anodization quality.
Post by: kawasaki161 on Thu, 29 June 2017, 16:51:53
Were you able to get it manufactured in the US or did you have to get it done somewhere else?Unfortunately, I had to do it elsewhere, prototyping costs in the states are very high. Once/if I get funded (via the Group Buy), I will have prototypes fabbed in the US to test the final design, domestic producer and anodization quality.
I'll just lean out of the window and guess it was EVE, wasn't it? The finish looks so similar to the Mira Prototypes.
Post by: Wingpad on Thu, 29 June 2017, 16:53:11
I can neither confirm nor deny this statement 😉Were you able to get it manufactured in the US or did you have to get it done somewhere else?Unfortunately, I had to do it elsewhere, prototyping costs in the states are very high. Once/if I get funded (via the Group Buy), I will have prototypes fabbed in the US to test the final design, domestic producer and anodization quality.
I'll just lean out of the window and guess it was EVE, wasn't it? The finish looks so similar to the Mira Prototypes.
Post by: Data on Thu, 29 June 2017, 20:37:39
The prototype came in, here (https://imgur.com/a/gyst2) is an album with some pictures. Let me know what you guys think :)
(https://i.imgur.com/7lZwLKc.jpg)
Post by: breckstar on Fri, 14 July 2017, 08:29:54
Post by: Wingpad on Fri, 14 July 2017, 08:44:51
Any updates on a GB date?No, still trying to get some things sorted out on my end. Need to get another revision of the PCB, make some final design calls then talk to vendors to get updated quotes. Probably won't happen until mid-August.
Post by: ALKAHEST on Tue, 18 July 2017, 16:43:35
I'm definitely in on this one, will probably build one with Zealios rocking GMK Laser. :thumb:
Post by: duynguyenle on Tue, 18 July 2017, 19:48:46
Also, it seems this version of the PCB only support through hole diodes, will you consider using a combined footprint that supports both through hole and SOD123 SMD diodes (like the ones on Hasu Alps64 PCB)? I think SMD diodes are much easier to deal with than through hole.
Glad to see more updates!
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 19 July 2017, 16:33:30
Just checking the PCB render, it seems there's no support at all for Cherry PCB mounted stabs, is this correct? (This is especially relevant as the new SP Alps Granite kit all uses Cherry stabilisers).None of the Rev2 PCBs had Cherry PCB mounted stabs, this was largely because I wanted a quick prototype to test things with. The Rev3's will certain have them, and will likely be in the form of two PCBs, MX-only and Alps-only. This is because it is impossible to simultaneously support all of the layouts for the bottom row and the capslock key all at once. I am still trying to avoid having two PCBs, though.
Also, it seems this version of the PCB only support through hole diodes, will you consider using a combined footprint that supports both through hole and SOD123 SMD diodes (like the ones on Hasu Alps64 PCB)? I think SMD diodes are much easier to deal with than through hole.The final PCB will likely be SMD-only and will ship with SMD diodes pre-installed. The through-holes were also chosen for prototyping purposes (since I tend to find them easier to deal with, personally).
Post by: Techlet on Wed, 19 July 2017, 20:06:21
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 19 July 2017, 20:30:49
I wish the front of the case didn't have that cutout on the bottom. Makes the keyboard look squashed.Sorry to hear that. That being said, I am not even sure which cutout you are referring to, the diffuser?
At this point, the design has been fairly well received so it is pretty much finalized, but I'd like to hear what you are talking about for future designs.
Post by: Techlet on Wed, 19 July 2017, 23:51:06
The side profile of the top frame isn't a "complete" rectangle and has a wedge of material taken out of it. Makes the case look squashed IMO.
Everything else looks fantastic.
Post by: Wingpad on Thu, 20 July 2017, 07:58:20
This bit here: http://i.imgur.com/fN8mLHq.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/fN8mLHq.jpg)While I see where you're coming from, that is actually one of the things I like about this side profile design so I probably won't be changing it. To get rid of it reduces it to a more standard design that I'm not a really fan of (since you basically have to go to a straight cutout all the way down vs. this angled one). Thanks for your feedback, though.
The side profile of the top frame isn't a "complete" rectangle and has a wedge of material taken out of it. Makes the case look squashed IMO.
Everything else looks fantastic.
Post by: hikasaki on Thu, 20 July 2017, 11:41:47
This bit here: http://i.imgur.com/fN8mLHq.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/fN8mLHq.jpg)While I see where you're coming from, that is actually one of the things I like about this side profile design so I probably won't be changing it. To get rid of it reduces it to a more standard design that I'm not a really fan of (since you basically have to go to a straight cutout all the way down vs. this angled one). Thanks for your feedback, though.
The side profile of the top frame isn't a "complete" rectangle and has a wedge of material taken out of it. Makes the case look squashed IMO.
Everything else looks fantastic.
I love that design though! Glad it's not being change. Looking forward to the GB. Hopefully I can pick up 2 MX kits.
Post by: romevi on Wed, 16 August 2017, 17:27:17
Post by: Wingpad on Wed, 16 August 2017, 17:35:41
Yo... What's the status on this?I have been busy with other things (non-hobby-related life things) recently but I plan to start working on this again soon. I have some minor tweaks to make to the PCB and research on vendors/suppliers to do but once that is all done, I will open the GB and publish my manufacturing plan/timeline. If I were to open the GB now, my focus would be split between it and other things so you guys (the customers) would only suffer for it. As such, I figure waiting until I get all of my ducks in a row is probably the better option and, therefore, the project is temporarily on "hiatus." Sorry for the delays, I was hoping to open this in mid-July but life got in the way and pushed the start date back.
Post by: romevi on Wed, 16 August 2017, 17:56:31
Definitely want in.
Post by: mintyfruits on Thu, 17 August 2017, 16:29:46
Post by: Wingpad on Thu, 17 August 2017, 16:34:51
This may be way too late in the process, but a split backspace 96-key would be amazing. I would be extremely interested if that could happen...The PCB has support for split backspace, the universal Cherry plate will have it but whether or not it makes it to any of the Alps variations is TBD.
Post by: mintyfruits on Thu, 17 August 2017, 22:26:35
Post by: subcat on Thu, 17 August 2017, 22:37:49
Post by: bluesclera on Sat, 09 September 2017, 14:44:35
Post by: wholypantalones on Sat, 09 September 2017, 15:10:57
Post by: packman86 on Sun, 10 September 2017, 12:55:49
Post by: eldonw on Tue, 24 October 2017, 23:27:37