[IC] 19//96, a Top-Mounted and MX+Alps 96-key Keyboard (Prototype Received)

[Wingpad]

If you are interested in this board, please fill out the interest check questionnaire! It will help me a lot in terms of gauging the community's interest. Thanks!


Today I bring to you yet another 96-key keyboard; however, this one is a little bit different than your run of the mill MX-only 96-key keyboard. That's right, this one would support Alps switches! With DSA Lightcycle finally coming to fruition... perhaps it is finally time for Alps to get some 96-key options.

The goal of this project would be to support all of the RS96 layout options for Cherry MX switches as well as AT101, AT101W and "DSA Lightcycle" layouts for Alps. The switches would share the same PCB but the plates would vary from layout to layout, with a universal Cherry option and individual plates for each of the aforementioned Alps layouts. The case would be a unibody case made from aluminum with a huge weight slot on the bottom (weights would probably available in stainless and brass) and two acrylic diffuser inserts. I would aim to have Red, Blue, Black and Gunmetal anodization options (and perhaps Silver/Gold if there is enough interest).

So, without further ado, here are some renders of the case (last updated 04/21/17):


And here is a picture of the prototype and a link to the entire album (last updated 06/28/17):


Side View:


Bottom:



Plate fitting into the top piece:


This revision stands at 36.17mm at it's tallest point and it is at an 8° incline. It also features a top-mounted plate.

And here are some renders of the PCB:
Front:

Back:

Note: The final version will in-switch lighting for MX for all of the switches and for the Alps lock lights (if possible). It will also have PCB mount stabilizer cutouts. I will NOT offer SMD lighting support for MX switches.
Update [04/21/17]: The prototype PCB came in, pictures are here.

Let me know if you would be interested in something like this. Cherry fans, now is your chance to help the Alps community get a cool thing and, in the process, get a cool board!

FAQs:

Do you have a pricing estimate yet?
No. I would be aiming to keep the price under $375 for the base kit. Hopefully lower but no guarantees. I am waiting on quotes for anodization and PCB fabbing before I commit to anything.

What would the MOQ be?
50 ideally, 25 might be do-able but pricier!

Do you have a PCB yet?
I have one in development.

Are you qualified to make a PCB and run this GB?
Yes, probably. My background is in Computer Engineering and I have run GBs before.

What do you mean by AT101/AT101W layouts?
Probably something like this (but with an Alps-correct CapsLock key):

More

Layout:
Example Plate:

What about a "DSA Lightcycle" layout?
Probably something like this:

More

Namely because I get the sense it is what most people would want out of a 96-key Alps keyboard.

My favorite layout for Alps is not here, what do I do? or The RSIII does not support my favorite MX layout, what do I do?
Tell me! I would be happy to try and accomadate it.

Would you consider adding support for AEK keycaps?
If I can figure out a way to support their wonky function key row... maybe? *grumbles something about Apple just having to Think Differently*

What are you going to call this... thing?
Options include the Wingman (this board is my wingman, it helps me pick up chicks that are just my type *ba dum chk*), the Stageboard or something I will come up with in bed at 2 AM on a later date. Open to suggestions (within reason).

The case is ugly. I hate it. Will you do something about that?
Um, first, please try to give me specific reasons why you hate it. Also, I will probably have a design engineer do a final pass over it to make it extra pretty.

Where are you going to manufacture the board?
I am aiming to have all of the case manufacturing and anodization done in the USA. Ideally, the PCB will also be made and assembled in the USA as well but the pricing will determine who I choose on that front.

Moar pictures pls
That is not even a question... but I would happily oblige.

🍒+⛰️=💞



Old Renders:

More

This is just a first attempt mock-up and it doesn't include the diffuser inserts and PCB/Plate mounts. The inserts will slide into slots in the sides and screw in from the top. Why? Because invisible screws are the best kind of screws and the manufacturing costs are lower this way. Here is a little mock-up of the concept:

More

[/s]
See the new two-part design.

[SJHL]

I always try to support Alps enthusiasts! Price isn't too bad but not sure if I can personally join it. Will def be following it, though!

[neon_tom]

Definitely interested for the Alps support

[ErgoMacros]

There's another interesting thread here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=86751.0 by samwisekoi.
He's built one 122 key keyboard PCB, and is working on another. Doesn't have your fancy case, but there's a lot of discussion about getting Alps and MX on the same PCB. I suspect well worth the read if this is your first combo board.

As I recall there are a number of limitations & compromises that needed to be done.

Very best of luck!

[Wingpad]

There's another interesting thread here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=86751.0 by samwisekoi.
He's built one 122 key keyboard PCB, and is working on another. Doesn't have your fancy case, but there's a lot of discussion about getting Alps and MX on the same PCB. I suspect well worth the read if this is your first combo board.

As I recall there are a number of limitations & compromises that needed to be done.

It's my first combo board on this scale but I've tinkered with it on a smaller scale. I'm optimistic that I can make something work here... even if I make to make some compromises.

In any case, thanks for the information! I'll be sure to read through it at some point.

[MandrewDavis]

If you use input club's universal Alps/MX footprint, we can unoffically hotswap alps switches without installing sockets etc. This could be very appealing to those trying alps out for the first time as if they don't like them they can be removed and Cherry switches can be soldered back in.

I am still waiting on my ZZ96 and but would much prefer a 96-key board with Alps, so you have my attention.

[Wingpad]

If you use input club's universal Alps/MX footprint, we can unoffically hotswap alps switches without installing sockets etc. This could be very appealing to those trying alps out for the first time as if they don't like them they can be removed and Cherry switches can be soldered back in.

That's unofficially/officially the plan unless I have to change things later on down the line. I don't see why I would have to switch footprints but, in case I do, I'm not going to make any promises. Expect a barebones PCB soonish.

[Traveler]

I need a 96 key keyboard in my life, and I kinda want to try Alps. So definitely interested. What is the angle for this case going to be?

[Wingpad]

What is the angle for this case going to be?

Right now it is at 9.1° but this is just a mock-up so it can still be changed. I know most boards are in the 8-10° range (with Duck's being at 11°, IIRC) so I aimed to be smack in the middle. After all, the middle is a nice place to be. What would you [guys] prefer?

[kmba]

This is a build candidate for the hilarious 280g Tai-Hao clicky alps clones.   

[Traveler]

Right now it is at 9.1° but this is just a mock-up so it can still be changed. I know most boards are in the 8-10° range (with Duck's being at 11°, IIRC) so I aimed to be smack in the middle. After all, the middle is a nice place to be. What would you [guys] prefer?

I'm not too picky, but I do know I'm not used to typing at a steep angle. So I think you have a good mindset here. 9.1° sounds like a pretty good middle-ground!

[kawasaki161]

Right now it is at 9.1° but this is just a mock-up so it can still be changed. I know most boards are in the 8-10° range (with Duck's being at 11°, IIRC) so I aimed to be smack in the middle. After all, the middle is a nice place to be. What would you [guys] prefer?

7-8° would be really nice. HHKB is somewhere around 7,5-8°, definitely over 7, as I've put it next to a board with 7° and the 7° one had visibly less angle.

[Wingpad]

7-8° would be really nice. HHKB is somewhere around 7,5-8°, definitely over 7, as I've put it next to a board with 7° and the 7° one had visibly less angle.

Interesting, I would be OK with trying to imitate the angle of the HHKB. Throughout my keyboarding experiences, I have owned three HHKBs and found their typing angle to be pleasant. Would anyone be able to provide a more exact measurement of the HHKB's angle for me? I would measure it myself but, lo, I sold my last one a while ago. Google didn't turn anything up either

EDIT: Ran a little calculation, changing the board to an 8° angle would change the height of the case from 40.25mm to 37.82mm. Not a huge difference but just thought it was worth mentioning.

[Wingpad]

I did a very preliminary layout of the PCB today, this was a pain but it needed to be done. It doesn't have any of the controller stuff and it's missing a bunch of the compatibility stuff but it's a good start.

[Spaceman1200]

Your making good progress man, i'll be keeping an eye on this for sure,

[romevi]

Definitely interested in this for Alps support, especially since I couldn't do the Monarch at the time.

[Wingpad]

I did a bit of a re-design and split the case into two parts at an 8° incline. Here is a render of the side profile:

Whadd'ya think, guys? I'm not sure if I personally like the new side profile but I'm trying to think of ways to make it more interesting. Plus, the transitions between the rear fillets are a bit awkward.

I also sent a prototype PCB off to be fabbed just to test some layout things. It doesn't have all of the compatibility options but it should be helpful for testing.

One issue I'm noticing is that we can only have Alps or Cherry style Stepped CapLock with the IC club footprint and some finagling will be required to get the RS96's bottom row right. I'll figure something out, though. Otherwise, I think it's off to a good start.

[romevi]

The angle is nice, but seems kinda high, no? Maybe it's just the way the render shows the side profile.

[Wingpad]

The angle is nice, but seems kinda high, no? Maybe it's just the way the render shows the side profile.

For reference, it's about 3mm taller than an RS96 at the moment. I'm planning on cutting it down a smidge to bring it closer to the Redscarf.

EDIT: I did something really simple and I think I fixed my side profile concerns.

[lecorsair]

Very much interested. Any idea what firmware you will be using? Specifically, will it support programability for Mac special keys/media/sleep etc...?

[Wingpad]

Any idea what firmware you will be using? Specifically, will it support programability for Mac special keys/media/sleep etc...?

I'll likely be using a fork of QMK or TMK, I believe both support Mac's special/media/sleep keys but you may correct me there.

[Traveler]

Whadd'ya think, guys?

Bit hard to judge without seeing some other angles like the back, back/side diagonal, and underneath. But I do like what I see.

[Wingpad]

Bit hard to judge without seeing some other angles like the back, back/side diagonal, and underneath. But I do like what I see.

Just added additional angles to the first post

[jchan94]

looks pretty cooool !

whats that bottom part used for? Just wondering as you can't really see it, nor does it look like something can fit there.

Just wondering! What's the plans for bumpons or feet and such? :O

[Wingpad]

whats that bottom part used for? Just wondering as you can't really see it, nor does it look like something can fit there.

It's for a weight. The weight fits in the bottom and screws in through the top. The  acrylic is covering up the screw holes for it in the renders but, if you look closely, you can kind of see them. Here is a rendering of the  weight itself:


And what you can expect to see with the weight in place:


I'll probably come up with a more interesting design for the weight as we go along. I'm just trying to get the general idea of the case together at the moment.

What's the plans for bumpons or feet and such?

Tentatively planning on rubber feet, if you look at the rendering of the old case you can see there were places for them to attach. I just haven't had a chance to add them back to the new design yet. It will kind of be like the Duck Viper in this regard. I also need to figure out whether or not the reset button will be externally accessible and, if so, how it will. I am leaning towards having a software-based solution a la the Redscarf boards, though (hold down a certain key while plugging it in to enter reprogramming mode).

[Data]

These new renders are looking pretty good. 

You might want to rethink your strategy for placing the Teensy over switch holes in the PCB.  Your current design makes it very difficult (impossible?) to solder either the Teensy or the switches on the reverse side, which ever gets installed second.  Also the center mounting peg on the switches continues through the PCB for about a millimeter on the other side so keep that in mind -- you can get around this by using the included spacers on the Teensy but you'd have to incorporate that in your design pretty early.

[Wingpad]

You might want to rethink your strategy for placing the Teensy over switch holes in the PCB.  Your current design makes it very difficult (impossible?) to solder either the Teensy or the switches on the reverse side, which ever gets installed second.  Also the center mounting peg on the switches continues through the PCB for about a millimeter on the other side so keep that in mind -- you can get around this by using the included spacers on the Teensy but you'd have to incorporate that in your design pretty early.

Thanks for the tip but, fret not, I wholly intend to switch to a SMD mounted MCU in the near future. This PCB revision is exclusively for my testing purposes, haha. Nevertheless, having played around with a Let's Split, I'm optimistic that I'll be able to get the Teensy on there, one way or another.

[Data]

Nice.  That is definitely the way to go.

I noticed your acrylic(?) spacer -- awesome.  What are your plans for lighting?

[Wingpad]

Nice.  That is definitely the way to go.

For sure, especially on a kit with a $400-450 price tag. Nothing but the best for you guys, haha.

I noticed your acrylic(?) spacer -- awesome.  What are your plans for lighting?

Yes, it will likely be some sort of frosted acrylic. I am planning on using RGB underlighting a la the ZZ96/RS96. As for switch lighting support, I am planning to support MX but that is not guaranteed at the moment. There are a few things I have to figure out first. I would love to support Alps but that seems pretty unlikely, I will look into it, though.

[Data]

Well since many of us probably won't get to be part of the Lightsaver V3 buy you can probably expect a decent level of interest for this board.  Not that your design isn't as appealing as Lightsaver, just that it's the de facto standard for 96-key boards at the moment.   

[Wingpad]

Well since many of us probably won't get to be part of the Lightsaver V3 buy you can probably expect a decent level of interest for this board.  Not that your design isn't as appealing as Lightsaver, just that it's the de facto standard for 96-key boards at the moment.   

There's a reason I am starting this now, haha. Ideally, I will be able to capture some of the interest in the Lightsaver and channel it into this. That and now that I have a reasonably flexible Alps keyset (or, rather, I soon will), I want a board to put it on that'll make it shine.

[Traveler]

Bit hard to judge without seeing some other angles like the back, back/side diagonal, and underneath. But I do like what I see.

Just added additional angles to the first post

Looking nice! Your concepts appear to be coming among very well. Exciting to watch it unfold.

[Wingpad]

I put together a test PCB to make sure the MCU and LED controller I'm using will work, hopefully I'll be able to get it soon. Afterwards, I can get the full-size PCB put together and after that's all tested, I'll start looking into get a prototype case fabbed! I already have a case maker and anodization service in mind


I also put a little render together of the board with a plate in place:

[Delirious]

Lips are not fat enough, need more bezels in my life. Let's set it apart even more with more bezels.

[Wingpad]

Lips are not fat enough, need more bezels in my life. Let's set it apart even more with more bezels.

When does more bezels become too much bezels? The Model F? I've honestly considered adding a bit more bezel to the top and bottom to give it a look closer to the Model F (a cutout on the bottom and the extruded bar on the top) but I thought it would be going too far. I think most people prefer skinnier bezels but I really don't know

[Delirious]

Lips are not fat enough, need more bezels in my life. Let's set it apart even more with more bezels.

When does more bezels become too much bezels? The Model F? I've honestly considered adding a bit more bezel to the top and bottom to give it a look closer to the Model F (a cutout on the bottom and the extruded bar on the top) but I thought it would be going too far. I think most people prefer skinnier bezels but I really don't know

It's mostly for my own selfish reason 
The Monarch has massive bezels and it is glorious. I also like to tramp stamp my board with a little vintage Apple logo, so I need that fat bezels 

[kawasaki161]

Lips are not fat enough, need more bezels in my life. Let's set it apart even more with more bezels.

When does more bezels become too much bezels? The Model F? I've honestly considered adding a bit more bezel to the top and bottom to give it a look closer to the Model F (a cutout on the bottom and the extruded bar on the top) but I thought it would be going too far. I think most people prefer skinnier bezels but I really don't know

While you are at it you can also make it top mount 

[Wingpad]

It's mostly for my own selfish reason 
The Monarch has massive bezels and it is glorious. I also like to tramp stamp my board with a little vintage Apple logo, so I need that fat bezels

Ah, OK. Wellll this board doesn't exactly support AEK keycaps so you'd kind of be out of luck there. Namely because of the wonky rotated F keys that Apple boards tote.

While you are at it you can also make it top mount 

Top Mount... how so? I would call this current revision "top mounting" since the plate/pcb go into the top and not through the bottom. Unless you meant having a separate top that mounts over an extended portion of the plate?

[kawasaki161]

While you are at it you can also make it top mount 

Top Mount... how so? I would call this current revision "top mounting" since the plate/pcb go into the top and not through the bottom. Unless you meant having a separate top that mounts over an extended portion of the plate?

I mean the plate mounting into the case instead of the PCB mounting into the case (which is called tray mounted). It's the way all the big customs are made, and imo feels a lot nicer.

[Wingpad]

While you are at it you can also make it top mount 

Top Mount... how so? I would call this current revision "top mounting" since the plate/pcb go into the top and not through the bottom. Unless you meant having a separate top that mounts over an extended portion of the plate?

I mean the plate mounting into the case instead of the PCB mounting into the case (which is called tray mounted). It's the way all the big customs are made, and imo feels a lot nicer.

Ah, well if I just make the standoffs a bit taller and holes in the PCB a bit larger, I should be able to do it 😀

[kawasaki161]

While you are at it you can also make it top mount 

Top Mount... how so? I would call this current revision "top mounting" since the plate/pcb go into the top and not through the bottom. Unless you meant having a separate top that mounts over an extended portion of the plate?

I mean the plate mounting into the case instead of the PCB mounting into the case (which is called tray mounted). It's the way all the big customs are made, and imo feels a lot nicer.

Ah, well if I just make the standoffs a bit taller and holes in the PCB a bit larger, I should be able to do it 😀

If you keep the same mounting points it won't feel much different. Usually the plate has it's mounts above the highest and below the lowest row, so the rows can flex evenly while the columns feel more or less the same throughout the whole board. If you can make cutouts for the standoffs in the PCB and only place the standoffs at the very edge (only top and bottom) it should kinda work, but the plate mounting to the top is the cleaner solution imo (would require more bezel though.)

[Wingpad]

THESE WERE EXPERIMENTAL RENDERS, PLEASE IGNORE.

Alright, so I was working on the concept for a top-mounting plate and here's what I've come up with so far:

More

And a render from the top with the switch mounts cut:

More

(Yes, I know the stabilizers are wrong for Alps. This is just a test plate)

I haven't gotten the measurements quite right yet, added all of the mounts to the top casing or finished the board's bottom part (it would match the current renders) but I'm just trying to test the waters with this. It has fatter bezels and the plate screws into the bottom part directly - not the PCB. The top now screws into the bottom part with screw holes along the sides, below the diffuser. Since most boards have screws on the bottom, I thought trying them on the sides would be interesting. It would be easy enough to move them to the bottom, though.

EDIT: Well, given the lack of responses, I'm definitely going back to the original design. I liked it better myself and just tried these fatter bezels, side mounted screws and the weirdly shaped plate as an experiment. Expect a thinner top-mounted plate soon.

[Wingpad]

OK, so as per the silence, I went to a more conservative design. I wanted to experiment, haha... hope it didn't scare you guys away

Anyway, here are some renders of the new top case. I'm still working on adjusting the bottom case because now I have to figure out how to screw the top into it... but I'll sort something out.




I also got in some of the test PCBs. Now, you'll have to pardon the mismatched keycaps (I just raided my spare parts bin)... but I did put this together:



Does it look horrible with all of those keys? Does it feel terrible with its dampened creams and blacks? Does it need a proper 7u spacebar? Yes. But it is a ray of hope for the future.

[duynguyenle]

THESE WERE EXPERIMENTAL RENDERS, PLEASE IGNORE.

Alright, so I was working on the concept for a top-mounting plate and here's what I've come up with so far:

More

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

And a render from the top with the switch mounts cut:

More

Show Image

Show Image

(Yes, I know the stabilizers are wrong for Alps. This is just a test plate)

I haven't gotten the measurements quite right yet, added all of the mounts to the top casing or finished the board's bottom part (it would match the current renders) but I'm just trying to test the waters with this. It has fatter bezels and the plate screws into the bottom part directly - not the PCB. The top now screws into the bottom part with screw holes along the sides, below the diffuser. Since most boards have screws on the bottom, I thought trying them on the sides would be interesting. It would be easy enough to move them to the bottom, though.

EDIT: Well, given the lack of responses, I'm definitely going back to the original design. I liked it better myself and just tried these fatter bezels, side mounted screws and the weirdly shaped plate as an experiment. Expect a thinner top-mounted plate soon.

This is the right idea, but the plate looks very odd with those oblique angles, so you should perhaps consider just straight lines and filleted corners near the screw tabs

[Wingpad]

This is the right idea, but the plate looks very odd with those oblique angles, so you should perhaps consider just straight lines and filleted corners near the screw tabs

The choice to have somewhat peculiar angles was intentional, I wanted the plate to look odd. That being said, I really have no interest in pursuing that design any further. I prefer smaller bezels and the more I think about it, the less I like the side screws.

[excluisve]

how much about it
it seems a simply 96 key

[Wingpad]

it seems a simply 96 key

Yes, it is simply a 96-key. This one is special, however, since it has Alps support (no other 96-key has supported Alps as far as I know)!

Here are the new renders of the board, updated to support a top-mounted plate:


Side View:


Side View Cutaway (showing that the plate is now affixed to the top part of the case):


Bottom (note, I haven't added the weight mount yet):

[digisax]

I'd be so in for a 96 key, not too worried about Alps support personally but it certainly isn't a bad thing.

[Wingpad]

I went ahead and added a brief survey to the OP, if you could fill it out it would help me out a ton! Just trying to gauge how many people are interested in this more quantitatively. Thanks!

If there's enough interest, I would like to try to prototype the case soon so we can have a working demo unit

[mustardgreens]

Hi, I would be interested in this.  I am looking for an Alps 96-key board. 

Please also petition SP to make Alps PBT blanks