1080p is over..

[tp4tissue]

Wow, that was so sudden..

Before you knew it.. poof,  no one collects 1080p blurays no more.


Getting ready to dive in those $1 walmart bins..  lots of goodies in there now.

[Shapey Fiend]

Now I'm actually able to stream high def wondering is the 4k that Netflix and YouTube spit out good or do they compress it a lot? 1080p certainly feels like plenty in any case.

[tp4tissue]

Now I'm actually able to stream high def wondering is the 4k that Netflix and YouTube spit out good or do they compress it a lot? 1080p certainly feels like plenty in any case.

Here's the numbers, 


H264 codec is 75% as efficient as H265(hevc)

Netflix 1080p = 3-4 Mbit
Netflix 4K = 10-15 Mbit

Youtube 1080p up to 8 Mbit
Youtube 4K allows up to 45 Mbit,  but content providers don't use this setting


Bluray 1080p H264 = 40Mbit H264
UHD 4K Bluray H265(HEVC) = 108 Mbit (maximum), typically ~ 50-80Mbit  H265

[noisyturtle]

Correction: No one buys movies on discs anymore, 1080p has nothing to do with it.

[Shapey Fiend]

Toddler bust the TV and I ain't even mad cos I need excuse to get a better TV.

Was looking at Samsung QLED model for €1100 for 55inch looks pretty damn gorgeous. May just opt for something in the €800 type of range though cos wouldn't put it was the child to have another incident!

[tp4tissue]

Toddler bust the TV and I ain't even mad cos I need excuse to get a better TV.

Was looking at Samsung QLED model for €1100 for 55inch looks pretty damn gorgeous. May just opt for something in the €800 type of range though cos wouldn't put it was the child to have another incident!

Just put it higher wall mounted where the toddler can't reach/climb


European prices is the problem.. this stuff is much cheaper in the USA , whereas europe, the native prices are all out of whack..


I recommend getting Anything except LG... their budget series isn't full 4k.. it's fake rgbw4k..


Right now,  pretty much every panel in the $1000 range is VA..  this is necessary for HDR at this price,  but the drawback is, VA panels have very narrow viewing angle.. so you can't really watch tv with another person..  (it's literally THAT NARROW) about 11-15 degrees to either side, and the contrast starts to blow out..


So.... overall, the solution is to either get a Really BIG tv, like a 75inch and above..

OR,  go OLED,   but OLED is way too expensive, and it has very poor motion-clarity vs VA..



The obvious other possibility, is to just Buy 1 TV per person in the household, so no one has to share, but this may be cost-prohibitive depending on local market...

[luminor]

4k still pretty expensive atm, but soon it will replace 1080 give or take in a year or two

[Coreda]

The issue is like half of the "4K" Blu-Rays are just upscaled 2K. See this site for a list. Was reading a review recently of the Mad Max Fury Road UHD that mentioned there were upscaling artifacts. So idk, I'd stick the native 4K or close-enough transfers.

Additionally it's rather more difficult to rip since it requires UHD-compatible but not 'officially compatible' drives to read the data, of which there are only a few select models (which the dudes in suits have tried to prevent from reading UHD as well).

[nugglets]

The issue is like half of the "4K" Blu-Rays are just upscaled 2K. See this site for a list. Was reading a review recently of the Mad Max Fury Road UHD that mentioned there were upscaling artifacts. So idk, I'd stick the native 4K or close-enough transfers.

Additionally it's rather more difficult to rip since it requires UHD-compatible but not 'officially compatible' drives to read the data, of which there are only a few select models (which the dudes in suits have tried to prevent from reading UHD as well).

And beyond that, there's the problem of the correlation between screen size, viewing distance and resolution. This image isn't perfect by any means, but it's a relatively good indicator.



And then there's the fact that there is very little cable / satellite content available in 4k, and the stuff that is available is often low bitrate to begin with.

We're still a ways away from 4k being necessary IMO, but with the cost reduction in even the quality 4k screens there is almost no reason not to spring for one if you're in the market for a new TV these days.

[Kavik]

And here I am still buying DVDs.

[tp4tissue]

The issue is like half of the "4K" Blu-Rays are just upscaled 2K. See this site for a list. Was reading a review recently of the Mad Max Fury Road UHD that mentioned there were upscaling artifacts. So idk, I'd stick the native 4K or close-enough transfers.

Additionally it's rather more difficult to rip since it requires UHD-compatible but not 'officially compatible' drives to read the data, of which there are only a few select models (which the dudes in suits have tried to prevent from reading UHD as well).

UHD discs are superior to 1080p regardless of -potential- artifacts.

Even if it's upscaled.. it's upscaling from 4:4:4 2K to 4K which preserves 93.75% of the color information.

A standard 1080p Bluray only has  23.44% of the color resolution of the 2K original scan.


this is due to 4:2:0 chroma subsampling of consumer formats vs (professional)

4k Bluray disc has 1920x1080 worth of chroma (color) data

Vanilla Bluray disc has 960x540 worth of chroma (color) data

This that's 2 megapixel of color vs 0.5 megapixel

[tp4tissue]

And here I am still buying DVDs.

I bought an xbox game just this week.. so...technically i 2 am still buying dvds.

[rowdy]

I dream of upgrading to 1080p one day.

[Coreda]

UHD discs are superior to 1080p regardless of -potential- artifacts.

Even if it's upscaled.. it's upscaling from 4:4:4 2K to 4K which preserves 93.75% of the color information.

this is due to 4:2:0 chroma subsampling of consumer formats vs (professional)

Interesting to consider. Basically that despite still being released in 4:2:0 since it's upscaled with 4:4:4 in the pre-finalization stage you're still getting some additional quality not found in the 1080p releases.

It's hard to find comparison screenshots of UHD in general, probably as ripping UHD BR is only a pretty recent discovery as I discovered.

[tp4tissue]

I dream of upgrading to 1080p one day.

don't worry rowdy, I hurd your fav pr0nhub haz the HD now..

[rowdy]

I dream of upgrading to 1080p one day.

don't worry rowdy, I hurd your fav pr0nhub haz the HD now..

Need faster internetz to stream such high quality vidz.

[Schida]

Correction: No one buys movies on discs anymore, 1080p has nothing to do get results with Male Extra it.

I feel like it's a combination of both. This being the major factor though. I don't remember the last time I bought a movie on a disc, must have been 8-10 years I'd say.

[Mr_BeastQuake]

Here's to buying into 144Hz 2k (Gsync IPS) a few years ago for cheaper than the monitors are now. I was worried then about 2k being a place-holder, but I am still waiting for a 144Hz 4k set up anywhere near the price I got my 2k set up for. Not sure how this relates to televisions though, 1080p still fine for me on 55 inch.

[nugglets]

Here's to buying into 144Hz 2k (Gsync IPS) a few years ago for cheaper than the monitors are now. I was worried then about 2k being a place-holder, but I am still waiting for a 144Hz 4k set up anywhere near the price I got my 2k set up for. Not sure how this relates to televisions though, 1080p still fine for me on 55 inch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2K_resolution

:triggered:

[microsoft windows]

I DON'T NEED ANY BLUE RAY DISKS. VHS IS JUST FINE. WHO NEEDS ALL THAT NEWFANGLED CRAP ANYWAY?

[MaNiFeX]

Have there been any film to 4k transfers like Criterion does?

[tp4tissue]

Have there been any film to 4k transfers like Criterion does?

Most big name ones have been scanned @ 4k.

so you're getting the real deal..

But of course,  many others are scanned @ only 2k.

regardless ,  2k 4:4:4 upsampled into 4k, is still miles better than vanilla 1080.

[MaNiFeX]

Have there been any film to 4k transfers like Criterion does?

Most big name ones have been scanned @ 4k.

so you're getting the real deal..

But of course,  many others are scanned @ only 2k.

regardless ,  2k 4:4:4 upsampled into 4k, is still miles better than vanilla 1080.

Is there documentation for this?  I'd love to see 2001, Star Wars, Seven Samurai, Tokyo Story, and Blade Runner as a true scan at high resolution.  Others come to mind as well, but those stick out in my head.

[Coreda]

Is there documentation for this?  I'd love to see 2001, Star Wars, Seven Samurai, Tokyo Story, and Blade Runner as a true scan at high resolution.  Others come to mind as well, but those stick out in my head.

It's glorious. The increased resolution and HEVC encoding help preserve the grain and detail. On the PC* it's processor intensive to play, though a Pascal series GPU helps since it has native HEVC 10-bit decoding for hardware accelerated playback (otherwise when it starts hitting scenes with ~90Mbps bitrates it can lag).



Click image links for full size PNGs.

* Just to get it on the PC is a journey in itself, but that's another story.

[tp4tissue]

Is there documentation for this?  I'd love to see 2001, Star Wars, Seven Samurai, Tokyo Story, and Blade Runner as a true scan at high resolution.  Others come to mind as well, but those stick out in my head.

It's glorious. The increased resolution and HEVC encoding help preserve the grain and detail. On the PC* it's processor intensive to play, though a Pascal series GPU helps since it has native HEVC 10-bit decoding for hardware accelerated playback (otherwise when it starts hitting scenes with ~90Mbps bitrates it can lag).

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

Click image links for full size PNGs.

* Just to get it on the PC is a journey in itself, but that's another story.

Yargb... Why my HDR not working.. //Hyperventilate// Pass out... woke up,  STILL NOT WORKING

[paicrai]

"1080p is over" 1080p is the burger of resolutions its ****ing awesome, easy, does the job perfectly well, and if you think burgers are on the way out, thats dumb

[Coreda]

Yargb... Why my HDR not working.. //Hyperventilate// Pass out... woke up,  STILL NOT WORKING

I've read of a few people buying setups for 4K and then maddeningly it doesn't function due to whatever element. Is your display hooked up to a PC or home theater?

[tp4tissue]

Yargb... Why my HDR not working.. //Hyperventilate// Pass out... woke up,  STILL NOT WORKING

I've read of a few people buying setups for 4K and then maddeningly it doesn't function due to whatever element. Is your display hooked up to a PC or home theater?

I was just dramatizing the typical incompatibility scenario.

Of course Tp4 haz working HDR..

[Coreda]

Should have never doubted the omni-expert

[futurecrime]

Have there been any film to 4k transfers like Criterion does?

Most big name ones have been scanned @ 4k.

so you're getting the real deal..

But of course,  many others are scanned @ only 2k.

regardless ,  2k 4:4:4 upsampled into 4k, is still miles better than vanilla 1080.

Is there documentation for this?  I'd love to see 2001, Star Wars, Seven Samurai, Tokyo Story, and Blade Runner as a true scan at high resolution.  Others come to mind as well, but those stick out in my head.

Great choices!

[tp4tissue]

Tokyo Story. 7 Samurai


I don't think black and white benefits from 4:4:4 chroma upsampling to 4k 4:2:0

Since, well, there' technically no color.

[Coreda]

Picked up Mad Max: Fury Road and yeah, it's a pity the upscaling is rather obvious (something reviews at the time couldn't illustrate at all since UHD ripping wasn't possible back then). Haloing can be seen on edges, and there's a general softness to the image (compared to native 4K that is, it's not like it's bad).

Coming from the native 4K Blade Runner transfer it was quite a difference in IQ. I'm sure if they had the types of folk from doom9.org the upscaling could probably have been improved. If I had a beefier GPU I'd try some real-time post-processing to enhance it.

Close-up examples 1:1 scale (click to zoom as Geekhack forces a smaller width):



Full-size source.

[Coreda]

Just as a follow up to the previous post I ripped the 1080p disc of Mad Max: Fury Road to see how much of a difference there is between the versions.

Observations:

• The 4K version is cropped slightly. The 1080p version has the full frame. No idea what happened there. See screens below for comparison (open in new tabs).
• I've read that on HDR monitors the HDR adaptation of this release pushes the saturation and highlights at times to their limit, lending an 'artificial' appearance to the already vibrant color grading. Can't comment on the native HDR presentation though for the HDR to SDR tonemapping I've seen using MadVR the colors can be odd for certain things, particularly for some of the scenes with blue skies since it can bring attention to the pre-sharpened upscaled haloing around edges I talked about earlier.
• The 4K version despite being upscaled from 2K still has better image quality in part just from the higher bitrate and some of the details preserved a little more by the increase in resolution (apart from tp's earlier comments about chroma subsampling). Maybe not a night and day difference but it's subtly there. However if watching on an SDR monitor you have to weigh that benefit to the color differences due to the HDR (I personally quite like the normalized lighting of the unmodified HDR stream prior to any contrast/color adjustments tbh).

Examples:

Click for higher res PNGs. 4K shots resized to 1080p using bilinear scaling for easier comparison (and since MadVR crashed my video player when taking shots with the HDR to SDR tonemapping enabled so I captured the window instead which was also using bilinear scaling).

4K version as seen unmodified on SDR screen:



4K version with HDR to SDR tonemapping via MadVR:



1080p version:

[tp4tissue]

Yea the picture will be ALL WRONG, using the tone-map algorithm drop down to SDR.

There's really no hope for current SDR equipment.  The new range has to be defined on the hardware side to mesh with the new data stream.



It's really not that the SDR equipment can't get close,  it's just that the lookup table and monitor processors were not TUNED for HDR range.

We can't expect Madvr's algorithm to cover the entire gamut of SDR equipment.

[Coreda]

Yea the picture will be ALL WRONG, using the tone-map algorithm drop down to SDR.

We can't expect Madvr's algorithm to cover the entire gamut of SDR equipment.

I think I'll compare a few more titles since the tonemapping seemed more accurate for Blade Runner for example (should be said the screencaps I posted further up the topic are sans tonemapping fwiw to show the original size). So on the one hand yea, such tonemapping isn't going to accurately represent how it will on a HDR display for both gamut and luminosity reasons though reading reviews and user impressions the quality of HDR adaptations varies from film to film...

Would be nice to have as an option 4K at BR quality without HDR honestly but I'm glad it's at least rippable now.

[tp4tissue]

Yea the picture will be ALL WRONG, using the tone-map algorithm drop down to SDR.

We can't expect Madvr's algorithm to cover the entire gamut of SDR equipment.

I think I'll compare a few more titles since the tonemapping seemed more accurate for Blade Runner for example (should be said the screencaps I posted further up the topic are sans tonemapping fwiw to show the original size). So on the one hand yea, such tonemapping isn't going to accurately represent how it will on a HDR display for both gamut and luminosity reasons though reading reviews and user impressions the quality of HDR adaptations varies from film to film...

Would be nice to have as an option 4K at BR quality without HDR honestly but I'm glad it's at least rippable now.

There's alot more involved here, due to the expanded range including lower black level which many sdr products can't reach.


 but the easiest solution is to just buy an HDR tuned tv/ monitor.